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LIVE from TAtech Europe in Dublin!

The Chad and Cheese take their act across the Atlantic for TAtech Europe, conveniently scheduled around St. Patrick's Day in Ireland.


MAJOR love to our partners at TAtech and copious amounts of love goes to America's Job Exchange, Sovren, Ratedly, Catch 22 Consulting and our newest sponsor - coming in April - JobAdX!

And special thanks to Nexxt and Jobs2Careers for sponsoring our monthly shows.


(apologies for missing some content as not all speakers in the room were mic'ed up)

Chad: Hey, boys and girls, Joel and I were in Dublin this week for TA Tech. Enjoy.

Announcer: America's Job Exchange is a market leader in diversity recruitment, and an OFCCP compliant solution provider. We serve over a thousand customers, consisting of federal contractors and subcontractors, to SMBs and Fortune 500 organizations. America's Job Exchange specializes in job distribution to over 6,500 state one-stop career centers and community-based organizations, ensures the creation and maintenance of state credentials, obtains veteran preference on job postings, robust outreach management, and supports effective, positive recruitment efforts designed to recruit individuals with disabilities, veterans, women, and minorities. For more information, call us at 866-926-6284, or visit us at

Joey Stubbs: Without further ado I want to introduce Chad and Cheese [crosstalk 00:01:02].

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: What's up Dublin?

Speaker 3: We got ... Pete? We got music, Pete?

Chad: What's up Europe?

Announcer 2: The most dangerous podcast, Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here on punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinions and loads of snark buckle up boys and girls, it's Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad: Now, it's real. Now, it's real.

Joel: Can we do the show now?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Awesome. What's up Dublin? What's up TAtech?

Chad: Bring it.

Joel: Welcome to the hangover detox session of the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Chad: There we go. Louder. That's right. Who else is hungover?

Joel: We're the only ones, dude. No one else in Dublin at this show is hungover. That's great.

Chad: I'm blame Shane. I'm blame Shane.

Joel: Well, thanks for listening. I'm amazed we have so many listeners here today.

Chad: Big in Europe. I never knew.

Joel: Huge in Belgium right here.

Chad: Belgium.

Joel: Brussels loves Chad and Cheese.

Chad: Brussels.

Joel: We have a fairly short period today, so let's get to the show, I guess.

Chad: Yeah. Shout outs.

Joel: We have schwag. So, I guess the rules are if you ask questions, if you say something snarky, insult another company, you get schwag. You get rewarded for that.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: So, if you're game, we got schwag for you.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: We usually start out the show with shout outs, some of you know. I'm going to do the show shout outs, and then Chad has some, I guess, external shout outs.

Chad: Yep. Twitter.

Joel: Number one, Shane and Paddy, who I don't think are here, showed us a fantastic time last night and our incredible representative of the Dublin area, shout out to them. Adam Gordon, who also isn't here, but shout out. He'll also do the show later. He was a great sport with the interviews yesterday. Tom, did an interview with us.

Chad: Yep.

Joel: Bogomil from Google, we really got him to just spill it, all of it,

yesterday. We'll be publishing that podcast soon. Let's see. Terry, the Dutchman, Baker, thank you for the interview. What was the joke? If you're not Dutch, you're not much. I think that's what I learned, yesterday. Eugene and Paulina from Job Today. Russian fans, originally Russian fans. We like that. They came up and said, "Thanks." Joey Stubs, for wearing the ugliest sport coat I've ever seen. Thank you for that.

Chad: Yeah. It said, "American," all over it.

Joel: I'm still having nightmares from that.

Chad: Like, Shamrocks.

Joel: And I guess Pete and Repeat.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Thank you for having us, again. We love it, appreciate it, and will try to continue the grade A work that we do here at TA Tech in Europe.

Chad: Much love for TA Tech. Is that all you got?

Joel: That's all I got.

Chad: Are you done? Okay. So, we also ... Obviously, we're big on Twitter, too. Hashtags, #ChadCheese. So, if you are tweeting right now, just use the #ChadCheese. Ed, from Philly, you will be listening. He wants you to stop hating on millennials.

Joel: Yeah, but one of our other boys loves the millennial bashing, which we don't have on the docket for today, so we'll have to save that for another time.

Chad: Not today

Joel: Millennials, I apologize, but I hate you all and I express that on the show. I'll save it for today.

Chad: Yes. He's a crusty old bastard.

Joel: Yes, I am.

Chad: Then, he wanted to go hate ... Now, he's hating on Tinder for Jobs. Who was the Tinder for Jobs guy, yesterday? Who was the ... He's not ... There he is.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: Tinder for Jobs.

Joel: You suck. Don't do it. Good Lord.

Chad: Job Board Doctor giving us love. Don't know where you're at, dude, but you're missing a party here in Dublin. Kyle, couldn't make it. Sucks to be you, Kyle. Jason Roberts said that ... I don't know. Does everybody know that we're actually running for co-president of Monster? We need votes. Monster doesn't have a CEO. Monster does not have a President.

Joel: Not yet. Unless they announce it, today. Anybody know anything? No?

Chad: We believe Chad and Cheese can co-president Monster. We got a whole-

Joel: We can't do any worse.

Chad: Yeah. We got a whole campaign behind this thing. But insiders in Monster say that's not going to happen, so we've got to get the ... We got a Russian connection now, so we can get the bots going. Get the trolls.

Joel: We could. We could.

Chad: We can win this election.

Joel: They're not going to let us back in America after this. There we go.

Chad: There it is.

Joel: Now, the party's starting.

Chad: There we go. It's not pumpkin though, Joe.

Joel: Cheers or what is it, Sláinte.

Joey Stubbs: Sláinte.

Joel: Sláinte! Dang it.

Chad: Sláinte.

Joel: I'll get it, eventually.

Chad: And that's it for shout outs.

Joel: Awesome. Let's get to the show, shall we?

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Yes. Okay.

Chad: I need to get to my beer. That's much better.

Joel: I guess, we could start with Google. Who was at the Google presentation, yesterday?

Chad: Anyone? Who was not at the Google presentation? It was packed.

Joel: Who was writing down an alternative business plan while they were listening to Google? Yeah, that was scary.

Chad: It was good stuff.

Joel: So, if you weren't there, Google's going to AI the shit out of your ATS.

Chad: Yes. That's putting it nicely.

Joel: They may actually make matching a reality.

Chad: Now?

Joel: Matching has been a Sasquatch, if you will, for about 10 years. Google might actually pull it off.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: At least that's what I got yesterday. Everything from matching resumes, to jobs, to your scheduling. I'll probably forget a few things due to hangovers. Oh, and glasses, too.

Chad: Nice.

Joel: Is it ice cold, though?

Chad: It's a little cold.

Joel: I don't know, what are your takeaways?

Chad: Yeah, so it's funny because it was like the whole, "If." If we could do this? Ask everybody, "If we could do this," and then he's showing screen shots of shit they're building, right? It's like, "If we could do this," which we're doing right now. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty awesome. Again-

Joel: I love how he softens everybody up with cucumber stories. "There's this farmer in South America that's growing cucumbers and he's using our AI technology."

Chad: Japan.

Joel: It's probably not a good accent or impression of you at all.

Chad: No, not at all.

Joel: They soften you up at Google and then they punch you right in the gut with what they're going to do. The good news is, they gave you an alternative business, though. They said, "Voice assistance are our next business of the next two to three years." So, if you're scared to death of what Google's going to do to your business, start making that Alexa app today, that Google Home, that Syria app today because at least Bogomil gave you the next thing that you can be a couple years ahead of it.

Chad: Yeah, I mean, we saw the Trojan horse with Indeed when they were going after the Monster and CareerBuilder take down, right? Monster and CareerBuilder could have crushed them. Now, we've got this company called Google. You're not crushing Google, so it's like how do we play well with Google. Now, anybody using the jobs API?

Joel: Yep.

Chad: The discovery API? Not yet? Is it available here?

Joel: They're here in the country during business where they have to deal with Google for Jobs.

Chad: Yeah. Well Google for Jobs ... Yeah, yeah.

Joel: Alright, well let's get this out of the way. Winter is coming everyone. If you're not prepared for basically having Indeed within a Google search, you're going to be greatly behind the eight-ball. We are here to provide a service, I guess, to tell you what's coming. Now, the good news is-

Chad: Fairly simple.

Joel: -if you play with Google ...

Chad: Nicely.

Joel: ... you're job site will be listed with the other jobs that are on Google. Duplicate content, you'll be competing with other job sites. I will tell you one thing that you can do to help yourself is to Amazon the shit out of your application process. If applying to your site isn't super easy, a job seekers is going to have a lot easier time going to your competitor through Google for Jobs than they ever have.

Chad: And data, too.

Joel: And data, too?

Chad: Yeah. Get more data. That was one of the biggest issues. Companies in the US, and I don't know if it's the same in Europe, they don't like to give a lot of info. They don't like to give salary ranges. I mean, these are the things that obviously job seekers, the users, customers, it's nice to have. I mean, I would like to before I apply for a job know how much you like to pay. So, they're really forcing, Google's really forcing companies to push more information. Now, take a look at ZipRecruiter.

Joel: They're also pulling data from PayScale [crosstalk 00:09:48] salaries.

Chad: Yeah, but if you push it yourself, I mean, I don't know their algorithm, obviously, but I believe you're getting heavier algorithm on that. But ZipRecruiter, their case study, and it was actually a Google case study, showed that they're getting a 35% lift in search traffic. Anybody want 35% lift in search traffic?

Speaker 6: Monster got 100%.

Chad: What's that?

Speaker 6: Monster got 100%.

Chad: Monster got 100%? That's 'cause nobody was going there because they suck. They've got the worst search engine for [crosstalk 00:10:22].

Joel: What do you want? You want some Purell, a pen, or a cup? Oh, boom. Nice catch.

Chad: Yeah. I'm pretty good. Yeah. So, getting that kind of a lift. I wonder ... So, 100% in the US, I'm assuming.

Joel: There's a word of warning for sucking from the Google tit though, that we should let people know about. So, when Indeed launched, everyone was like, "Free traffic," "More traffic," "Awesome." Over time, traffic went down. You had to pay for traffic. ATS direct employers jobs became more prominent than Indeeds. So, there's a word of warning. Enjoy the Google traffic while you can, 'cause it may not last. Thank you.

Chad: Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, so right now the Google for Jobs experience isn't really great for the applicant tracking systems. I mean, if a job seeker wants to go through an applicant tracking system the button actually says the applicant tracking system name. SmartRecruiters. What does that mean to a job seeker? I know what Glassdoor is. I know what ZipRecruiter is, probably. I might have used those before. So, more than likely just from a UI standpoint, it's not great for the [Iceman's 00:11:45] of the world. I see that changing. I don't know how they're ... I mean, it's just verbiage to be quite frank, but right now it will say Taleo. What's a Taleo?

Joel: If I'm a job seeker, I don't know what Taleo is. I don't know what Connects is. I don't know what Isis is. I might know what Monster is. I might know what LinkedIn is. So, branding's going to be important in this new world unless Google can figure out how to put the direct employer name within that site, which they probably can at some point. So, enjoy that branding while you still can. Who here is dealing with Facebook as a job posting competitor? Well, you guys have it easy here in Europe. States now, we're fighting tooth and nail for real estate.Facebook just launched in 40 countries, apparently none of which are in this room represented.

Chad: Either way, not pushing it.

Joel: Another word of winter's coming, Facebook is coming for your kids, as well. They're going after more of the small businesses, I think it's fair to say. They have a ton of data. They have a ton of profile data. I don't know if you guys do this, they are leveraging messaging in their job postings. They're starting to leverage automation in those chats. We talked about chat bots. Facebook is already playing in that game, as well. To just add a word of caution, what's going on, essentially it's going to be my opinion at least is we're going to have three platforms: The Microsoft LinkedIn platform, the Facebook platform, and the Google platform.

Chad: Amazon

Joel: Companies eventually will choose which one is their product of choice.

Chad: Yeah. I think Amazon [crosstalk 00:13:22].

Joel: And that's where they'll have their ATS, that's where they'll post their jobs, and that's where they'll be happy.

Chad: The biggest question is, where do you take ... If you're Job Board, right, and you're fighting for traffic, how do you change your model? Partnership, obviously is a big key we see with ZipRecruiter. They're using many different Google products. They've partnered very closely with Google. Long term we'll see how that turns out. It's working out well for them now. But Google for Jobs, it's no question, it's going to be coming to Europe. When it does, who's not going to be happy when it comes to Europe? Indeed. 'Cause Indeed's not playing.

Joel: Sure. I have a long list of people who probably won't be happy, but let's go with Indeed. I don't even know when that plays into space, is going to be unhappy.

Chad: No. Google-

Joel: Eventually, unhappy.

Chad: Google ... Well, eventually [crosstalk 00:14:16].

Joel: Indeed doesn't play with Google. You won't find Indeed jobs on Google for Jobs. Indeed has made a conscious decision to say, "We're putting up the mode, we're battening down the hatches, and we're not going to play with Google." Whether or not that lasts is up for debate, but at least for now they're holding the fort against the big G.

Chad: Yes, and that means ... what we've seen in the US ... that means a redistribution of traffic back to everyone else. That's what happened, right. So, Indeed's got this big pipe that they've SEO'd the shit out of fricking Google, right, and next thing you know, all that organic is pushed down, Google for Jobs is there and guess what? Since Indeed is not pushing their jobs into Google for Jobs, they're down further on the page, your jobs, perspectively, at least the jobs of the job boards playing the game in America, they're seeing a really good lift. Somebody had a question?

Joel: If you'd been in the states, you would have noticed a big spike in Indeed advertisements on television and elsewhere, which I assumed was a freakout of the fact that they lost traffic to Google.

Chad: And not sustainable. Yes.

Speaker 5: There's a reason people [inaudible 00:15:33]

Joel: Privacy.

Speaker 5: 2.4 billion [inaudible 00:15:36].

Joel: Can we get a mic. Oh, there it is.

Speaker 7: Repeat the question.

Joel: Yeah, repeat. The question is, basically, Google hasn't launched here because they're in a legal battle-

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:15:55]

Joel: Which they can find in their couch, by the way.

Speaker 5: In [inaudible 00:16:04] jobs promoted by all the other [inaudible 00:16:27] into the European [inaudible 00:16:30] legally would be a problem-

Joel: So, the shocking case, correct me if I'm wrong, is their own search engine for-

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:16:40]

Joel: Correct, so they're-

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:16:45] Google got bloody 60% of the market search [inaudible 00:16:52] so for them to artificially promote their service above everyone else is [inaudible 00:17:04] right in the face of the European union. That's why they'll never launch here in Europe.

Chad: Have you seen the interface? Have you seen the Google for Jobs interface?

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:17:16]

Chad: Yeah, but the thing is they're not pressing their jobs, what they're doing is they're actually, that's what we're talking about, redistribution, so right now, they're not giving anybody really I would say a lift over anybody else. If you're playing.

Speaker 7: [inaudible 00:17:38]

Chad: That's not their service. It's search. It's search. It's not a service, it's search. No, what does Google provide? They provide search. Google provides search.

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:17:50]

Chad: What is search in the first place? It's an aggregate, right? It's a directory. It's the same thing.

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:17:59]

Chad: They don't-

Joel: We don't have time for this.

Chad: No, we do. We do.

Joel: We really don't.

Chad: Anyway, if you take a look at the interface, the way that Google is actually going after this is they're not promoting their service, they're providing a better interface to get to jobs on other job sites.

Joel: Google's in the room, by the way. Would you like to comment about this case [inaudible 00:18:20]. Damn it.

Speaker 7: [Not gonna happen]

Joel: Okay. Alright, if you believe Google will not have a jobs component ever in Europe, then you can just forget what we just said. If you believe there's a chance that Google might beat the case or do what Google does and win in the end, then keep listening to us and eventually this will happen.

Chad: It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. Carry on.

Joel: Carry on, okay. I will pick up the pieces. So, I don't know, we've got five more minutes.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: We can do Q and A. We can talk some more stuff. What do you guys want? Raise your hand if you like Q and A and discussion with the audience. Raise your hand if you just want us to talk more and bullshit. Yep, question.

Speaker 8: You talked-

Joel: Wait for the mic.

Speaker 8: [inaudible 00:19:06]

Chad: Wait for the mic.

Speaker 8: You talked to me a couple of weeks ago and brought my focus on [inaudible 00:19:11] the way I can bring traffic to first week on the [crosstalk 00:19:17]

Chad: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking about the two-click?

Speaker 8: Exactly.

Chad: Yeah.

Speaker 8: Can you please update us on what's going on in Europe and customers speak of Germany as of [inaudible 00:19:30]

Chad: Yeah. Indeed, to be quite frank, they're fucking up right now. They're not playing with Google. They're in a non-sustainable position. They're spending a shit ton of money to press the traffic that they were getting from Google for free, right. And what are they doing to be able to subsidize this position that they're in? They're charging the shit out of their 35% plus, number one, and then they change the models. Everybody see the two-click, two pane model? Not two chains, the two pane model. Actually, you're getting charged for the first click that doesn't take you to the job. What?

Joel: I'm with you. Yeah. More click, more money.

Chad: And big props to Recruitics. First and foremost, they put out an email to their client to let them know what was going on. One of their clients actually shifted it to us and then we got a hold of Recruitics and they did a little white paper or something like that. So, they're trying to keep people informed, which is great because to be quite frank, Time Acquisition wouldn't know what the hell was going on because they don't pay attention. They don't pay attention to that shit.

Joel: The one's that listen to us do.

Chad: Yeah. That's why they listen to us 'cause we pay attention.

Joel: And they're not the only ones sucking money everywhere they can, 'cause everyone heard about the Glassdoor IPO rumors? Yep. Glassdoor's raising prices. They're going after staffing firms. Question? Okay.

Chad: There we go.

Speaker 9: I have a comment on the two pane. Indeed launched that in January and Monster's launching this week.

Joel: Who?

Chad: Monster's launching a two pane this week?

Speaker 9: Yes.

Chad: Are you kidding me?

Joel: The energy drink is launching a job search? What?

Chad: So, we're going to have to have a one-on-one with Chris Cho. The new Product guy of Monster.

Joel: Sure. Monster actually talks to us now because they need to, I guess. [crosstalk 00:21:34]

Chad: Because we're going to be co-president. So, where did you get ... What source? Is that somebody-

Speaker 9: Monster.

Chad: Source Monster. Okay.

Joel: Scoop everybody. Tweet.

Chad: Scoop. Scoop.

Joel: Any other questions? We got a couple minutes, unless Pete and Repeat want us to give ... Oh, 10 minutes.

Chad: There we go.

Joel: We're on fire.

Chad: 10 minutes.

Joel: Wie Gehts?

Speaker: Hi there. I really like your opening on opportunity for recruitment.

Joel: Oh, shit.

Speaker: Oh shit or bullshit?

Chad: Ooh. So, Blockchain to me ... How long does it actually take for a transaction to happen at Blockchain

Speaker: A couple seconds depending on which platform you use.

Chad: So, a second to ten minutes.

Speaker: Yep.

Chad: Yeah, okay.

Joel: I think it's one of two roads. One, is that no one gets it, understands it, cares about it, and it's just kind of a fringe technology, or it really transforms how we do business. I was watching the Blockchain before I came in and when I hear him talk I'm saying, "This could put the background check business out of business." If you have a ledger of where you went to school and where you went to work, you don't need background check companies. I also heard if you have a social network that's built on this privacy infrastructure, then do social networks pop up and say, "We don't collect your data but you have a profile and your safe and we're going to use your data to advertise to you. We're not going to re-target you." Do people embrace that and go do a private social network. Does LinkedIn change their model in light of that. I think it could either really transform and shake it up or it will just fizzle out and not catch on.

Chad: It has to do with adoption, I mean, overall. Especially, for platforms who are using, blotching, as a selling point. Nobody understands what the hell it is. You got to be able to come down with a very concise and easy way to ensure that your customers know what it is. I mean, if it's a candidate thing and you're doing it for candidate privacy or whatever it is, you're just going to have to be more concise. We had a CEO from Moonlighting on-

Joel: Yeah. There are a few companies, well ICOs, so there are two job sites that are raising money. One has raised over a million and a half dollars in an ICO, which is Initial Coin Offering. I guess you guys know that. Yeah. There's some underground stuff that's going on that's interesting, but does it stay underground or not, I don't know.

Chad: But we asked him to just define what it was and it was not concise by any means. Again, people aren't going to buy what they don't understand.

Joel: Yeah. Well, I would say Tom, from Smashfly, he's talking about chat bots and how people go, "I need a chatbot," and you're like "What do you want a chatbot for?" They're like, "I don't know. I just need a chatbot."

Chad: 'Cause they're easy.

Joel: You're going to see people say we're built on Blockchain, just like we have AI and we're automation. They're buzz words you're going to hear and Blockchain's going to be one of them for sure.

Chad: If they can understand it. They understand what a chatbot is. A chatbot is so simple.

Joel: I don't know what ... If you talk to Tom, they don't. They just think they need it 'cause it's hot.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: And to be able to tell their friends "Yeah, we're on that Blockchain


Chad: Like the Blockchain chat.

Joel: Ooh. You're innovative. That's cool. Any other questions? I guess we're down to like two minutes.

Chad: Oh God. Now, you've wrestled the damn bear.

Speaker 11: [crosstalk 00:25:00] comments on the chatbots. Yes.

Joel: Did you not say that?

Speaker 11: It's a question about not showing up for the one chatbot formats, right, but what we're trying to do is increase their engagement with people coming to their sites and looking for their jobs. So, while the question may be, "Yes. What do you want a chatbot for?" "I don't know. I don't know how to use it," doesn't mean there's not value that they're seeing in engaging with those people.

Joel: But the motivation to even ask about it is because they heard it on a conference or they heard it on a ... read it on a blog.

Chad: It's the shiny.

Joel: They just say, "We need a chatbot."

Speaker 11: That isn't how all great ideas come from. You hear it from somewhere, you do a little research, you ask questions, you figure out what it means, you then talk to people about what it can be used for, and there you go.

Joel: He's doing a real good job of spinning what I heard yesterday.

Chad: Yeah. Yeah, he is. It's good. I think it's got to be simple.

Joel: Do you agree that Blockchain

is a buzzword, is going to start making its way into sites to draw attention and customers?

Speaker 11: Blockchain

is a buzzword?

Joel: Well, yeah. It's like we have Blockchain

or our shit's built on Blockchain. That's going to happen, yes?

Chad: It's going to happen.

Joel: Okay.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: That was kind of my point. Not going after you for the chatbot thing, but just people will use stuff because it's a trending word. Three minutes.

Chad: Three minutes.

Joel: Questions.

Chad: One more question. Oh, not Murphy.

Joel: Oh, Murph.

Chad: Damn it.

Joel: Nice tie. You're always so well dressed.

Murphy: Thank you.

Joel: [inaudible 00:26:24] could take a few tips.

Murphy: I think you're bullshitting. The comment about the two pane from Indeed came up and Monster's launching it. Glassdoor's been doing that for over a year, if not from forever [inaudible 00:26:36].

Joel: But they don't charge for clicks. I mean, there's a difference, right?

Murphy: Last one we charted has a [CBC 00:26:40] model where they do anything first click on [inaudible 00:26:44]

Chad: Well, okay. First off, what was Indeed ... what was their slogan when they first came out?

Joel: Google for blank.

Chad: Google for Jobs. Right? They were Google for Jobs. They-

Murphy: Someone else said that.

Chad: A search engine. Yeah.

Joel: Google said that, I think.

Chad: It might have been Google.

Joel: Google became Google for Jobs.

Chad: It might. Yeah. Google became Google for Jobs. Very nice. It's like they set it up for them or something.

Chad: I mean, it looks like a huge regression. You're going from super simple to now you're just putting layers in front of job searches.

Joel: So, what does a search engine do? A search engine takes you to another site. Right? That's the whole point of Google. What sites have what I'm looking for? I go to that website. Indeed's initial value proposition was we're a search engine for jobs. Click on the job, you'll go to the site that has the job, apply through that site, whatever. Now, Indeed is progressively wanting to not have you leave Indeed at all. The value proposition has changed in our opinion. We think that change is largely due because the monetary suffering that they're going through with Google taking their milkshake. I don't know if that answers your question or not, but last years propositions never been word search engines for jobs. [crosstalk 00:28:05]

Chad: They're a review site that turned into a job site.

Murphy: Google started out as search the web, right, and then they had Gmail and then that's where most people spend more time outside of Facebook than anywhere else. So they grew to platform with new services. Indeed's doing much the same thing, right?

Joel: So, you're comparing going from a search engine and adding a email product [crosstalk 00:28:31]

Chad: To changing the search engine entirely.

Murphy: Well, Indeed is doing more profiles, resumes, you can apply to jobs directly.

Chad: Indeed prime.

Murphy: It's a lot more than a search. At least that's the intentions.

Chad: It is now.

Murphy: I guess that my question is, why not find a way to generate a higher revenue off the site. It seems to me [inaudible 00:28:54] I'd rather pay money to keep a person on the website rather than having them leave.

Chad: As somebody who obviously works with the companies and you probably do too, that sucks because I want the candidate to go through my experience. My experience my suck, but still I'm paying for that experience.

Joel: Maybe I want to re-target these people. Maybe I want to present [crosstalk 00:29:12].

Chad: That's not your choice. That's my money that I'm spending to get that candidate and you're still keeping them on your site. I get what you're saying from their standpoint.

Murphy: You think it sucks because of perspective evidence TA professional.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: From a user, I don't. I think as a user, if you click through say Indeed, get window panes and quickly go through jobs, I think that's great. But from a non-posting standpoint and a TA standpoint, I think there are questions there.

Chad: And they make a hell of a lot more money because of a lot more clicks.

Joel: And it's our job to present these issues so you can ask your own internal team, "Does this matter to us or not?"

Murphy: [inaudible 00:29:48]

Chad: That's never a bad thing to do. Yeah.

Joel: Because people must see you do it. Thank you guys. Thank you.

Murphy: Thank you guys. Thank you very much.

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