To say this week's episode is a bit disjointed would be an understatement. But hey, we just comment on what we see happening in the world of recruitment. So, here's a taste:

- CareerBuilder throws a few logs on the dumpster fire - RUMORS!

- IBM uses ethnic slurs

- "Uber for EVERYTHING" jumps the shark

- Robot baristas

- OpenAI withholds "dangerous algo"

- Thumbtack offers giggers benefits?

- Jobcase brings in the MUTHALOAD!

Enjoy, and give our sponsors some love: Sovren, Canvas and JobAdX. There is no show without them.


Disability Solutions partners with our clients to build best-in-class inclusion programs and reach qualified, talented individuals with disabilities of every skill, education, and experience level.

Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it works. Complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Chad: Here we go.

Joel: Let's do this. We just got back from Austin, and boy, are our arms tired. Hi-dy ho, kids, and welcome to Chad and Cheese, HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Joel Cheeseman.

Chad: And I'm Chad "Foosball" Sowash.

Joel: On this week's extremely disjointed and random roundup, the dumpster fire at Career Builder rages on. Stop me if you've heard that one before. Robot baristas, Uber for humans-

Chad: What?

Joel: And the greatest advancement in desk technology ever. Strap an iPad to your head and get geeked. We'll be right back after a word from JobAdX.

JobAdX: This is the sound of job search. This is the sound of job search defeat. Job search can be frustrating. Job seekers run into the same irrelevant ads, page after page, before they find a match. When job seekers aren't engaged, conversations are low. Budgets are wasted. Jobs go unfilled. No one wins. But job search doesn't have to be defeating. JobAdX's smart search exchange references 400 data points to select the most targeted jobs and delivers what job seekers really want to premium ad units across our network.

JobAdX: Score!

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JobAdX, today we can save job search.

Chad: Yeah, I still think the guy should be saying, "Fuck yeah," instead of score. We need to get that edited.

Joel: The first "ugh" sounds a little bit like you, when you get frustrated with me. Ugh.

Chad: I think I'm gonna talk to our buddies over at JobAdX and see if they don't mind if I actually cut out "score" and then I'll just say, "Fuck yeah," and then I'll just go ahead and insert that in there. I think it'll be great. It's awesome.

Joel: Aren't we gonna see them in Phoenix next week?

Chad: Yeah, we are. I think over a few drinks we can probably get that done.

Joel: Yeah, get them all lubricated and agree to a totally not safe for work ad.

Chad: We just got back from Austin and I can't remember the last time I've done a podcast without looking your ugly mug right beside me. This is interesting. This is pretty refreshing.

Joel: I'm going to enjoy a weekend free from Chad Sowash, because I have to turn around and see you again in Phoenix and hope to God, unlike Austin, it doesn't rain in Phoenix with fairly, moderately neutralized cold-ish weather. I say that because we came from Canada, so it did feel warm, but it would have been nice to see a little more sunshine.

Chad: Yes. But as in Austin, and thanks to the amazing hospitality from Talroo. We had great opportunity for amazing food.

Joel: Franklin's Barbecue.

Chad: Yeah, they brought Franklin's Barbecue in. We worked our ass off while we were there. We were playing Foosball, we were racing down the hallways on scooters.

Joel: Corn hole.

Chad: Ping pong.

Joel: I showed you how to hover board. Good god.

Chad: If you're not following myself or Joel on Twitter, you need to. Go to Twitter, just ... I mean, I'm the only Chad Sowash on Twitter. Obviously probably the only Joel Cheeseman. Follow us, there's some hilarious fucking videos, I think I might have put them on Linkedin, too, of Joel trying to hover board. That was awesome. That was worth the entire trip.

Joel: I don't know how kids can just zoom around on these things. They're like death traps.

Chad: It's practice, man. It just takes practice.

Joel: Yeah, I guess so.

Chad: I gotta say, the Talroo team was awesome, treated us like a couple of podcasting kings.

Joel: How many cases of beer did they buy for us?

Chad: Yeah, yeah, if you go on Twitter or LinkedIn, probably or Facebook, we might have put it on our Facebook too.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: You will see the pile of beer cases ...

Joel: Stacks. Stacks.

Chad: It was awesome, dude. Yeah, so there's gonna be some great content coming from Thad. Probably next week we're gonna drop an interview with Thad Price.

Joel: CEO.

Chad: Yep, CEO over at Talroo, and then we've got some super-secret stuff that's gonna happen in the weeks upcoming, and that's all we can say about that.

Joel: Gotta wait for it. Get 'em all hot and bothered, baby.

Chad: Lube 'em up.

Joel: Got some super-secret detention coming up, coming your way.

Chad: Oh, shit. Okay, shout outs.

Joel: Another shout out to Neuvoo, I still don't know if I pronounced that correctly.

Chad: I think it is, yeah.

Joel: Some French Canadian thing. Sent me a pair of socks, I think sent you also a pair of socks.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: And with all the swag I'm getting, I'll never have to buy clothes ever again. Except for maybe pants. I have not gotten a pair of swag pants yet, but I'm sure it's coming. Get me some nice daisy dukes, somebody, for the summer. And I will ...

Chad: I hope nobody ever does that.

Joel: And I will rock those bitches.

Chad: Yeah, so thanks for thinking of us Michael Odell and the team over there at Neuvoo. John Headland, so John fired off a message to me. He watched our, the Gathering panel intro. We did it on video, and he provided some solid feedback on what Chad and Cheese actually means to him. I had said something random ...

Joel: What are we, Santa Claus now? What Chad and Cheese means to him? Like, God.

Chad: Hey.

Joel: They're fans now, right? I love it.

Chad: You've gotta allow them.

Joel: What we mean to you, that's great. Okay.

Chad: We've gotta allow them to bear their soul to us, Joel, come on.

Joel: I guess.

Chad: But yeah, gave us some great feedback. So thanks, John, appreciate it.

Joel: Fantastic. So I got a package from FedEx today.

Chad: Oh, nice.

Joel: And it had our travel sponsors' swag in it, at least delivery one, Shaker Advertising. For those of you who don't know, they're sponsoring some of our travels and are equipping us with some of the highest tech gadgets on the planet, including trucker hats, new carry-on luggage, polos.

Chad: Backpacks.

Joel: Backpacks, yeah. They're gonna outfit us like a couple of middle schoolers as we venture around the world. And so my luggage and shirts were delivered today.

Chad: Nice.

Joel: So not as exciting as the trucker hats, which are stuck in China, I guess, being made. But the luggage is really nice, so Shaker man, thank you guys. The polos are great, I think they're Nikes. I'll be looking great on the green this summer. Much appreciated, big shout out.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: And by green, I mean Top Golf.

Chad: Yes. Traveling with Chad and Cheese. You'll be seeing more videos and all that fun stuff, brought to you by Shaker Recruitment Advertising.

Joel: Shaker Recruitment Advertising.

Chad: Shaker Recruitment Advertising.

Joel: Chicago owned, Chicago based.

Chad: Hung Lee, he loved the iCIMS throat punches Indeed line, and he gave us some love on Recruiting Brain Food. So that was pretty awesome, thanks, Hung.

Joel: The Brits is like the violent nature of us Americans, so they always love that. They're way too proper to have a headline like iCIMS throat punches Indeed.

Chad: Yeah, but they can share that shit, though.

Joel: Which by the way, shout out to Indeed, who is right next door to Talroo, which is kind of an interesting dynamic. We went by, gave 'em a big cheers, waved to them, we didn't get past security, of course. But we did see the building and said hi, so shout out to our friends at Indeed.

Chad: Yeah, fuck them. Allen Fleur, hey, man.

Joel: Such an asshole.

Chad: Allen wants more virtual beer toasts, which brings me to we need to do more Demo-pocolypse. We need more Demo-pocolypse. So if you're out there in your company and you want to highlight new features, new platforms, products, whatever it is, and you want to do that via Chad and Cheese Video, then reach out to us. Go to the website, hit the little contact us area, and let's talk about Demo-pocolypse.

Joel: Demo-pocolypse. I just made that up, it's great. Shout out to Lily Valentin. There's no E at the end of it, so I don't know if it's Valentin or Valentine. So I'm not sure. Lily Valentin works for Adzuna.

Chad: Oh, okay.

Joel: Big fan. She says the whole office listens, the company's a big supporter of the show, so Lily and the group at Adzuna, shout out to you guys. Thanks for listening.

Chad: Well, you guys, you need to have a listener party that's kind of like a book club. You get together and you bear your soul and you talk about the Chad and Cheese podcast that really moved you.

Joel: We're bringing together companies like never before.

Chad: That's exactly right.

Joel: It's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Chad: Yeah. My last shout out to Holland Dombeck and James Ellis, both branding lovers. You are going to love, enjoy some of the Gathering pods we're going to be dropping in the next week. So once again, we were in Banff for about a week or so, probably the best branding, awesome conference, and we're going to have some really cool interviews that we're going to be dropping, so stay tuned.

Joel: Did you know Forbes rated the Gathering the number one conference to attend for business professionals?

Chad: Well I know why now, because I actually attended. And I have to say that at the end of conferences, I am fucking conferenced out because of talking with people. They're just so much, right? But at this one-

Joel: Dealing with me.

Chad: Yeah, being with you. This time, I was total, I was fucking fanboy. It was ridiculous how cool it was and the type of content that was brought to stage. We go to great conferences throughout the year in the recruitment industry, but this was something entirely different and new, so it was really cool.

Joel: For sure. And we're gonna be spitting out some great content from that show here in the coming weeks. And speaking of the show, shout out to Laten Davison who was a volunteer from the show. He was there for our segment, he became a fan during the segment, wanted to connect on LinkedIn. We were like yeah, sure, dude, and he thought, "Wow, that's really, really cool." College student, just getting a start, nice, Canadian kid. Laten, this shout out's for you, and I will end my shout outs with a company in Japan called Piala, which I'm probably misspelling, but it's spelled P-I-A-L-A. As a non-smoker, I've always complained when I was in the workforce about how much time smokers got extra by smoking. I mean, it's literally like an hour a day-

Chad: It is, it is.

Joel: That they get not working. So anyway, Piala is giving non-smokers six extra days off for vacation, because they have I guess so many smokers and they want to reward the non-smokers who have been complaining. Apparently there are a lot more smokers in Japan than there are in the U.S., so it's a little more culturally different, but I applaud them for taking a stand for non-smokers and giving them a little extra perk, which they've been deserving for a long time.

Joel: And with that ...

Chad: Really quick, on the event side, go to, click on the events link all the way in the upper right, and you're going to see that we're gonna be at TA Tech next week, we're also going to be at TA Tech in Chicago in April, in Lisbon in May, in Austin in September. We have a discount code there for you. We're going to be at SmashFly in June, Transform, then Recfest, which is going to be in London and about 3,000 fucking attendees strong, and Unleash in Paris. So go to chadcheese, click on events, and there's some discounts that are there for you, not to mention it's where we're gonna be, you should be there, too.

Joel: We're saving you hundreds on your conference traveling this year.

Chad: Easily. Easily.

Joel: Love us.

Chad: So there's some gossip out there. We got some gossip.

Joel: Big gossip. We love gossip. And our sources are pretty solid. Like ...

Chad: Oh, they are.

Joel: We have a trusted group of anonymous people who trust us to keep their names out of it, but are more than willing to let us know what's going on. So we got some new gossip out of Career Builder this past week. Apparently some more big names in the C-Suite are getting axed. They gotta be running out of C-Suite executives to fire. I don't know, there must be so many, because every month, there's gonna be a firing. So anyway, the gossip is Pete Janson, who was VP of the New Biz Group, was axed. We got Megan Moobach, hopefully I'm saying that right, who was VP of sales, and we got Alex Madison who was a manger of enterprise sales. So the heads keep rolling at Career Builder, and thank you guys, our anonymous sources out there. Hopefully you don't get fired any time soon because we love the info that you're giving us.

Joel: Which clearly states that our sources aren't necessarily VPs. They're like in the trenches, and I kind of like that.

Chad: No, totally dig that. So it's like adding more logs to the dumpster fire.

Joel: I want to add, 'cause we're having a running list of companies that won't talk to us ...

Chad: Uh-huh.

Joel: Should we add Irena, CEO Career Builder to this list?

Chad: Oh, yeah. There's no question. I mean, you reached out to them through PR, right, to be able to see if she would be on a panel or even do an interview with us, and it was a big fucking no, right?

Joel: It was a no, but it was a no like oh, she's busy. And we'll send somebody else. So it wasn't like we're not gonna talk to you. But yeah, I think Irena, if you're listening, and obviously the title of this will be like, "Heads Roll at Career Builder" or something, so we know that you guys are listening. Irena, we want to get you on the show, we want to find out what's going on, the Tex Colonel acquisition, what's going on there, what's going on at Career Builder. So if you're out there, Irena, give us some time, come on the show. We'll be nice, we promise. We will be tough as usual.

Chad: Tough but fair. I mean, the only opportunity you're going to get to be able to actually get your message out there on this show is to be on the fucking show, so there it is.

Joel: Yep, yep. So all those people who won't be on the show ... It's back, baby.

Chad: Fuck. Okay. So that should be, I think that was actually IBM for apologizing for using ethnic labels like yellow and mulato in their applicant tracking system. So this goes under the what the actual fuck happened here? IBM apologized Tuesday after one of its recruitment web pages powered by Brass Ring, who they own, gave applicants the option of using racially insensitive terms to identify themselves. The process took job seekers to a dropdown menu that included, among Caucasian, black, and other options, yellow and mulato.

Joel: This is almost a joke. I hope somebody in technology copied and pasted a list of nationalities from the 1940s.

Chad: Oh, fuck.

Joel: And then jokingly copied and pasted it as the new code for the dropdown, 'cause this is totally ridiculous. Like yellow, seriously?

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Seriously? Mulato?

Chad: They said it was copied over from an area of the world where those are used commonly, I'm paraphrasing, but still. This is what happens when you don't give a shit about QA and QC and the process, right? They're a global organization that has downsized considerably over the years and I know the guy who would have been in charge of ensuring that this did not happen. Needless to say, he doesn't work at IBM anymore, but dude.

Joel: Pretty sure I know who you're talking about.

Chad: Yeah, no, dude, he would have been 100% QA, QC behind this entire fucking thing and he got axed and laid off like over a year ago or something like that. So dude, all I have to say is, what the fuck? Not just to IBM, but you and I were talking about, you know, on the Brass Ring side. Do you not have triggers to be able to say, "Oh, wait a minute, you're a dumbass. Don't do this."

Joel: Well, and it's a word of warning to anybody. IBM is a big-ass company with a lot of committees and fail safes, allegedly. It's probably a good time, if you haven't, go check your ATS, go to the dropdown menu for nationality if you ask it or whatever, and make sure that everything is PC and not gonna piss anybody off. Because literally a job seeker recorded this on video and put it on Twitter and totally called them out, and so everybody embedded this video so it's there forever, which is great. But yeah, don't put yourself in a place where somebody like IBM can be embarrassed and really quite offensive, actually.

Joel: Yellow is nuts.

Chad: If you're a company and you're not doing quarterly audits on the actual process, especially before you do any type of rollout, first off, that's when audits should happen. But still, if you continue to do the audits not just on content, but on process ...

Joel: Well, it doesn't help that IBM's brand is kind of crusty and old anyway, right? So now when I apply, I see references from the 1950s of yellow and ... Are you ... Yellow? Was red on there, too?

Chad: As we talk about the 1950s, then we're going to slam this podcast into like, 2118 really quick with this new telepresence human Uber thing that you posted that just totally freaked me the fuck out. So where did you find this thing?

Joel: Like, I had to check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April Fools. But apparently there's a company that you can hire someone to go to things for you. So a literal person will go somewhere, in this case it's an office. Let's say you're traveling and you want to be at a meeting, maybe an all hands thing or something, and you can't be there. So you hire someone to go for you, and they strap a tablet/iPad to their face.

Chad: To their face.

Joel: And then your face is on the tablet, so like you're actually there, and you can see the event, or basically you see what they're seeing, and your face is basically replaced on their body. And it looks ... It's almost like slave labor that you strap a tablet to these people and they're walking around and being there for you. I guess it's Uber for humans. But I think we're sliding so far down the wormhole that we're just struggling to find startups and businesses that aren't just totally ridiculous, and this is one of those. Uber for humans.

Joel: I'm waiting for this to intersect with Tinder-

Chad: Oh, god.

Joel: Where you go on multiple dates with multiple people at the same time and other people strapping tablets to their face or maybe it's like you can go on dates but not be on dates and then-

Chad: Oh, that's too far.

Joel: Someone else dresses up for you and it's like two tablets speaking to each other on a date.

Chad: Yeah, but does the person who's wearing the actual iPad face get lucky if it's a good ... I don't understand. See, that just to me doesn't make any sense.

Joel: Do they have to have sex with the tablet on?

Chad: I would say yes. I mean, I don't know. I think you've gone a little bit too far there, so I'm gonna take a step back.

Joel: That's where we're going, dude. We're going so far. We're talking about yellow on a dropdown for nationality and now we're talking about sex between people with iPads on their face.

Chad: Yeah, yeah. So probably everybody out there has seen those little robots, those rolling robots who have the iPad attached to the top of it. You see them in commercials and that kind of shit. This is like that next step. I thought it was creepy before, but now they're calling it a chameleon mask and the surrogate humans are actually really the vehicle versus this rolling bot thing. The actual creator in Japan, go figure, said it provides a way to attend events remotely using another person's body. It's surprisingly natural. What? It's surprisingly fucking creepy is what it is.

Joel: Yeah. If I start walking around the world and I see people with tablets on their face, I'm gonna lose it. You're gonna start seeing this in school, like college kids are gonna send these people to tests and shit. Fucking absurd.

Chad: We should get these guys on Firing Squad.

Joel: Yes, oh hell, yes. And it's gotta be some video component to it, 'cause they have to have somebody else's body with their face doing the interview. We have to do TA Tech in Japan, and we'll get these guys to do some employment angle and we'll get them onstage.

Chad: We'll talk to Peter about that next week.

Joel: Oh, god. It just gets weirder when we come back. But let's take a break, listen to a word from Canvas, and we'll talk some silly automation stuff.

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Joel: Dig it, Canvas. A little teaser, we're scheduling a face-to-face interview with Aman Brar, CEO and founder-

Chad: Spoiler.

Joel: Of Canvas to get to the bottom of this whole acquisition thing and what's in store for that company as well as text messaging automation AI for his business and the industry as a whole.

Chad: Yeah. It's always fun to sit down with the cool cat and have a cool conversation about the industry. And Aman is definitely a cool cat.