What a week.
- Millennials need to get freak-nasty or we go extinct,
- Natty Light beer needs partiers, and much, much more.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad & Cheese Podcast.
Joel: The Sowashes are back from their European vacation. What's up, Clark? And we're ready to do this weekly show thing. Welcome to the Chad & Cheese Podcast, HR's most global weekly roundup of new news and opinion from the world of recruiting. I'm Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash.
Joel: Did you learn any Portuguese while you were there?
Chad: I did not, but I did learn that is nothing like fucking Spanish.
Joel: On this week's show, millennials need to put down the Xbox controllers and grab their real joysticks, CareerBuilder loses another VP in our rumors segment, and we get serious about facials. Grab a Natty Light and hone those party skills, kids. We'll be right back after this word from JobAdX.
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Joel: I'm pretty bitter that I go to Lisbon the same time you do. While I'm there, it's rainy, it's cloudy, it's a little cool. The second I leave, the sun comes out, it becomes 80 some degrees, and you're there for about another three, four days. So I hope you had a good time, asshole.
Chad: It was gorgeous. Yeah, so we were, a little time in Lisbon, went to Sintra, went to Porto, stayed a couple of days, a few days in Porto. Dude, it was so awesome, and yeah, I'm sorry you didn't get to share all the wonderful sunshine, but we drank a ton of wine for you and I also brought back by request exactly what you were looking for, a very good port wine. Yes, you're welcome.
Joel: Yeah. We give a lot of shit to each other, but deep down, there's feelings.
Chad: There's feelings.
Joel: By the way, it's notable that your wife, who's very picky about where she travels and where she wants to live in retirement has chosen Lisbon, I guess Portugal, as a top three retirement destination. So for those of you kids out there looking to get out of wherever you are, Portugal might be a place to check out.
Chad: Yeah. TAtech Europe did more than just bring us to Portugal. It might be a retirement place. You never know.
Joel: Julie needs a new blog or something. Like Julie picks for retirement, where to retire and where not to retire.
Chad: That's a good call. Also, Isabel from JobAdX. She was the awesome Portugal trip advisor, so thanks, Isabel, because she really hooked us up on places to go check out while we were there.
Joel: Isabel may be my favorite millennial. It isn't saying much, but she is a walking trip advisor.
Chad: Isn't your wife a millennial? Wait a minute.
Joel: No. No. Barely not, but yeah. Yes, I married so young from where I sit.
Chad: Shout to Alex Gotoi I know I'm fucking that up, from Bucharest. He is spreading the Chad and Cheese love. Alex, you spread it man! Spread it! Spread that love!
Joel: Spread it wide, Alex.
Chad: That's the way I like it.
Joel: Spread it far and wide, baby. Yeah, he recommended us and actually, in his tweet recommendation or LinkedIn, wherever it was, called us inspirational, which makes me a little bit leery of his mind, but hey.
Chad: I love it.
Joel: Spread that love, Alex. Good stuff.
Chad: And we are.
Joel: VideoMyJob shout out. If you haven't seen the DEMOpocalypse with the kids there, Kristen and Steven, that's well worth your time. Interesting product. Video is the thing all the kids are doing, apparently 80% of the internet by 20-something will all be video, so you gotta get on board. Check out the VideoMyJob DEMOpocalypse.
Chad: Yep, and also we'll be pushing out audio from RECex thanks to Stephen O'Donnell and the team over at MyJobViddy. That's an interesting name. We'll be putting out some great content that we had from the stage of RECex. So that was a
good time when we got there, even though I was late.
Joel: We will not be publishing the RECxxx audio, though. Apparently that's
a little bit too much for even our audience.
Chad: Is that when you called everyone eurotrash when you stepped on the stage? That was fun.
Feffer: Such an asshole.
Joel: Yeah, that was good.
Chad: Big applause and shout out to our deathmatch competitor.
Joel: So solid.
Chad: Eric from Mya, Elin from Tengai, Adam from Candidate.ID, and I didn't said AI though.
Joel: You almost did a Joel there.
Chad: Yeah, I know. Andreea from Opening.io. Four awesome, I mean awesome fucking pitches all the way around. Awesome products all the way around, and we actually had, the judges had to have an extra bottle of wine. This was a hard one to judge, so in the next few weeks, we'll be putting out Death Match podcast where you can listen to every single pitch, so look for that.
Joel: Are we okay revealing the winner?
Joel: In this weeks show?
Joel: So Opening.io was our champion, but as Chad mentioned, it took a lot more wine than we thought to help our judgment, which is a little bit counteractive, counterintuitive. Anyway, but so we came up with opening.io. Ireland won this world cup, I guess, and very impressive outing, all of our startups, companies were great. I love how they go above and beyond the performance bar with Viking costumes and kilts and music intros. It was a great event, and looking forward to doing it again in Austin in September.
Chad: Yes, very, very excited to do that, and my last shout out before we get to the t-shirts selfies piece is Matt Alder. He was obviously Chad and Cheesed during one of his interviews at TAtech. My bad, Matt. Sorry about that, brother.
Joel: He got Chad and Cheesed.
Chad: You got Chad and Cheesed.
Joel: Can I throw in our Philly trip in the mixture?
Chad: Oh yeah.
Ed: I'm not angry. I'm from Philly.
Joel: So yeah, we're heading to Philly next week-
Chad: Next week. Get your tickets.
Joel: Chad's overnighting. I can only handle a day trip to Philly, so I'm not going to stick around, but big fan base in Philly. Looking forward to seeing those knuckleheads and putting on a show for those guys.
Chad: That's right. Week after that, we're in Boston for Jobcase live, so we're doing a live gig at Jobcase, and they're taking us to a ballgame, so that's pretty cool. After that, Transform Live, which again is going to be in Boston. It's a SmashFly joint. We're going to be talking about recruitment marketing, and Joel and I are just going to talk about blowing shit up like recruitment marketing.
Joel: Yeah, the Cleveland Indians are rumored to be in Boston that day.
Chad: That's right.
Joel: For the game, so I need to iron my Jim Thome jersey so I can talk shit to Bostonians when I'm out there. That'll be fun.
Chad: Last on the events, we are on the main stage. We're actually headlining RecFest in London, and literally guys, it's our job to break shit when we get there. So yeah, look for that. It's going to be, we're going to have a blast. The bar opens at noon. I think we take the stage at 4:00 or after 4:00, so everybody's going to be perfectly intoxicated for our fucking show.
Joel: I still like Yanks Gone Wild, even though you don't. Anyway.
Chad: That is...
Joel: It's beautiful.
Chad: You should be, it should be Wanks Gone Wild.
Joel: Yeah, we are definitely Wanks Gone Wild and speaking of...
Chad: Just keep checking out our social feeds, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn. Got all these people, Tim [Meehan 00:09:48], Jamie Leonard, the whole Tengai team and Chad and Cheese t-shirts. Now, if you want one of these things, you gotta be at one of these events that we're showing up. So come get a t-shirt if we have any left.
Joel: The t-shirt thing is out of control.
Chad: It is fucking awesome.
Joel: I got a kind of bow down to you on this one, because you were the lightning rod to get this t-shirt thing up and running and done, and I thought, no one would wear our t-shirts. I'm glad I was wrong. Our t-shirts are flooding the webs, the interwebs, and it's very humbling and very cool.
Joel: So keep those pics coming.
Chad: Big, big shout out to Emissary.ai who paid for the fucking t-shirts. If you're not texting in your recruiting, you're dumb. Go to Emissary.ai.
Joel: Which I think is their new ad that they're putting together. If you're not texting and recruiting, you're dumb.
Chad: That's right. Emissary.ai. Hit it.
Joel: All right, can we talk about facials now?
Chad: That'd be great.
Joel: I agree. I agree. Okay, so we've been talking and not at length, necessarily, but we've touched on the whole facial recognition thing, how it's pretty scary as hell, and fortunately, San Francisco has banned it. So San Francisco becomes first city to bar police from using facial recognition. It won't be the last city to consider a similar law, I'm sure. So on the face, we like this. However, you, for example, love the quickie check in at airports. There's a company called Clear that uses facial recognition to check you into flights and whatnot pretty quickly. So it's a little bit of a double edged sword, I guess, in that it sounds good to say, we're going to ban facial recognition, but then it also hinders maybe innovation in companies that want to use that to make our lives better.
Chad: I think from our standpoint, you have to have the choice for something like this to an extent. So facial recognition could definitely help find missing children, identify and catch criminals, and then obviously also, as you talked about with Clear, speed up travel. We actually saw this during our trip home from Portugal. We went through Amsterdam, and they have facial recognition, pretty much little lines that are set up where you put in your passport, the camera comes down, identifies you, and then you're through and they stamp your shit. They don't ask you any questions or anything like that. It's just boom, boom, boom, and it was really fast. It freaked Julie out, because she hates this facial recognition stuff. We saw it happening in, I believe it was Detroit with one of the Delta terminals, and she was like, oh shit. I don't want to do that.
Chad: Then here we are. She's already in line for this thing in Amsterdam, and she went through it and it worked pretty well. So yeah, I think it could help in those areas, but there are these different liberties and privacies and freedoms that we should be able to opt into. If we want to do something like that, I think paying a company like Clear or going through a TSA precheck or something of that nature where you're opting into it, it makes sense. You shouldn't have to do something like that, unless, again, it's in the case of a missing child or trying to catch a criminal. That's something entirely different, but it is, go figure and I hate this term, it's a fucking slippery slope on being able to utilize something like this. All I have to do is say, The Patriot Act. That was a fucking slippery slope, dude, and they were doing shit to our calls, listening in on calls and all of this other stuff because-
Joel: Safety, security.
Chad: Yeah, well, it was a release of our freedoms. It was a tamping down of our freedoms so that we could have security, or at least the prospect.
Joel: Oppression's best friend is fear, Chad, like you know.
Chad: Yeah, oh dude. As we know, we should know, because it's coming from the top of our fucking country now. That's all it is fucking fear mongering constantly. You can't stop it.
Joel: I love the paranoia of your wife. No DNA test, no facial recognition. She's filed off her fingerprints so they can't track her that way. Brian Hofer, Executive Director of Privacy Advocacy, the group called Secure Justice said in the article, quote, "Facial surveillance technology is a huge legal and civil liberties risk due to its significant error rate, and it will be worse when it becomes perfectly accurate mass surveillance, tracking us as we move about our daily lives."
Chad: Yes. So what is the price for misidentification? And this is happening more with black and brown people than it is for white people. That's what the statistics show. So yeah, I think it's nice and it's easy if you're going through and you're paying for a Clear program, but it's much different when the police have this tool in their tool belt, but yet it's still high misidentification rates for some of our population. That's, I mean, and we already have a high incarceration rate of black and brown people as it is. So how the fuck does this help us there?
Joel: We've been going beyond the whole criminal element. Are you comfortable seeing advertisements based on your face? If your face is recognized to work at a certain company, do you start seeing advertisements promoting jobs at your competitors and other opportunities and maybe bashing the company that you currently work for? This is a real thing. I mean, I've talked to sourcing companies that are testing out facial recognition solutions where based on whatever database they're using, can track who's wearing what and what company portraits they've been in or what social media settings or what conferences they're going to, and then based, recruiting or sourcing those folks on that.
Joel: So this is a real thing beyond criminal and doing bad stuff. This is probably going to impact you in many ways of your life, in ways that you may not want to, so-
Chad: Yeah, and Facebook has a hell of an algorithm right now because you post a photo into your feed and it automatically knows who's in the god damn photo because we trained the algorithm to notice who we are and who our friends are. So we're training these algorithms and who knows what Facebook is going to do with this long term?
Joel: Yeah, you won't be able to go into an airport or a shopping center or a
downtown area with a lot of people and not be impacted by facial recognition technology.
Joel: More than likely.
Joel: So anyway, facials are all over the place, and we'll be keeping a tab on this for everybody.
Chad: They're not going anywhere.
Joel: Speaking of facials, LinkedIn has some new updates this week, I guess. It's a nice little mix of job seeker enhancements as well as some employer enhancements, although frankly, none of them is real crazy new for job seekers. You got new instant alerts, the job's home is redesigned for more mobile friendly user experience in applying for jobs. Maybe most interestingly they've made salary insights someone that everyone on LinkedIn can use. It used to be a premium feature, so now everyone can now view salaries on LinkedIn in the job postings. So that's sort of new. Launching soon, they're going to have skill assessments. Skill assessments give members the ability to assess, validate, and showcase their skills to more effectively stand out. They will also serve as a tool for recruiters and hiring managers to reliably vet candidates.
Joel: For hiring managers, new recruiters, and jobs, they're making the core talent product even smarter. Launch brings together LinkedIn Jobs Recruiter and Pipeline Builder into a single platform. We kind of saw this coming and will continue to see it coming. Then they added screening questions, which is not a new thing for most sites. Indeed launched their screening questions a couple years ago, I think. But anyway, with screening questions, hiring managers can collect yes/no information about applicants to review with a clear understanding of the needs like if you're comfortable with the commute or confirming your educational level. This also helps recruiters and job seekers more quickly know if they're a fit.
Chad: Yeah. All these things should've been done a while ago, but so they're being done now, so that's awesome.
Joel: At least LinkedIn now is copying job sites instead of just copying Facebook. At least now they're copying actual features that mean something to recruiters and-
Chad: Yeah, it starts like they're starting to give a shit or something. So yeah, I like the whole getting to the job faster for the job seeker if they want to be able to opt into getting to feeds of jobs faster because, yeah, I mean, again it's all about timing. So that's awesome, but also on the getting to the talent faster, they're trying to get their tools pretty much up to snuff with some of the shit, some of the startups that are out there for goodness sakes who can help identify talent in seconds as opposed to taking hours, minutes or hours. So good for them. It's good that they're starting to catch up.
Joel: Also to their credit, I think that they probably understand better than most that winning the quick apply battle on Google for jobs and being a quick way for people to apply, I've already got my LinkedIn account. It's easy to apply to these jobs. That's going to help them in their optimization of Google for jobs over time as well as condensing the jobs app that they got rid of and now they're sort of bringing it all into one house. I think that's smart. I mean, I don't think it's a huge deal, but I think over time, being mobile, being the ability to quickly apply to jobs is going to help them on a lot of fronts.
Chad: Yeah, I think Google will penalize them for too easy an apply process just from the standpoint of being able to scatter and smatter and splatter employees with, or employers, with profiles. I mean, it's all about being able to get the right type of individuals to the job to be able to apply. So if they're applying some really good first and foremost content, and then the opportunity to get the employer what they want, then yes, but if it just turns into this mess of applying for everything and making it too god damn easy to apply for everything, that might backfire on them.
Joel: That's an interesting take, because it's obvious to say, yeah, Google's going to reward the companies where people apply. It's very interesting to say, it's sort of a thought 180 for them because they're used to people buying stuff and conversions are good and applications are good. That's all good stuff. It would take a change of attitude and understanding of our space to say too many applies done quickly could actually penalize your SEO. Yeah, that's an interesting take.
Chad: Well, I mean spam, right? I mean, they could be seeing the spam, so therefore, that's something that they deal with already as it is, but also remember who would be Google's biggest adversary in this space? Possibly Microsoft/LinkedIn, so it could give them a very good reason to say, smack them down from this practice.
Joel: I certainly agree with that, although they'll never publicly come out
Chad: Well, no.
Joel: We're banning LinkedIn jobs or downgrading them because of our competition with Microsoft.
Chad: Yeah, they would never say that. It would just happen. It's kind of like when they rolled out Panda and everybody's SEO got fucked.
Joel: Now I'm waiting to see LinkedIn get on the whole chatbot, prescreen these folks through a conversation as opposed to a questionnaire, however they're doing it now. I think that's an evolution that needs to happen.
Chad: Yeah, I would've gotten excited about something like that if they would've actually acquired an organization or partnered with an organization to make that happen, but I mean, being able to do these basic screening types of element? I mean, so fucking what? That shit's been happening for well over a decade. Good for you. It's glad that you caught up, but it's just, big fucking deal.
Joel: By the way, while we're talking about technology, we have another live view from the ladder's innovation lab. Keep up the good work, ladders. Love you.
Chad: Good job, Mark.
Joel: All right, speaking of companies going in the shitter, CareerBuilder in our rumor segment here this week, Michael [Piermont 00:23:23], I'm probably saying that incorrect. Piermont, Piermat-
Joel: Dude is an entrepreneur according to his LinkedIn profile, and he somehow thought it was a good idea to join CareerBuilder as their VP of Global Growth. He backtracked on that pretty quickly. After only 10 months, he has allegedly left the company. So Michael, man, go back to that entrepreneur thing, because that's a much better gig than CareerBuilder at this point.
Chad: Yeah. CareerBuilder right now, I would believe, is just a grinder. I mean seriously, just it'll grind you up and spit you the fuck out. We're seeing that from industry veterans, right? Who I'm sure have pretty big price tags on their head to keep them around, been in the industry for a while or they've been at CareerBuilder for a while. So it makes sense to just kind of nudge them out or hit the eject button, get rid of them, but we just haven't seen much come from CareerBuilder that they haven't been doing for years, and not doing a great job of for years, right? So none of this surprises me.
Joel: No, it does not strike me as a place for entrepreneurial type folks at all. This is a churn and burn grind business now. We'll see how it goes when augmented reality, and I can point my phone downtown and see who's hiring. That's the height of innovation now. This is not an entrepreneurial friendly company at this point.
Chad: Yeah, when Monster and Monster Studios is actually outshining what you're doing, you really have to take a couple of fucking steps back and rethink your strategy.
Joel: Well, you know who doesn't have to rethink their strategy and is always on top of the height of innovation is Chad and Cheese sponsor, Canvas. Let's hear a little bit from them and talk Slack wars, nothing but Slack wars. You like my Bill Murray? That's nice.
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Joel: Slack aims to be the most important software company in the world, says their CEO in a recent article in TechCrunch. Well, it sounds a lot like Ian from ZipRecruiter. Maybe those guys eat lunch together or go bowling.
Joel: But it sounds familiar.
Chad: I think it's funny that, I mean, Stewart Butterfield, they created Slack internally to be able to message each other, but that was not the core product they were trying to build. The core product they were trying to build sucks and nobody was buying into it, so they're like, fuck. We gotta sell something, and this is very, very much how Stewart Butterfield has built companies throughout the years. Same thing happened with Flickr. Flickr was not the product that they were building. They were just trying to get capital, and it was like, oh hey. Let's build this and try to sell this and get some capital out of it.
Chad: So it's interesting that he has such a great vision for something that wasn't even created as a visionary product, at all, but they're looking to go public in June, valued at 7 billion, 10 million users in 150+ countries, more than 600,000 organizations that are using, but only 88,000 of those businesses are actually on the paid plan. 130 million in revenue, which is up like 60, almost 70% from Q1 in 2018. So I mean, Slack isn't losing a ton of cash like Uber is, but it's also not close to profitability either. So this is an interesting story because everybody hates email, much like everybody hates their ATS, but yet this just feels like a different form of email. I mean seriously, what the fuck different is it? I mean, how's it different?
Joel: Well, to me, it feels like you may or may not remember when GoPro went public.
Joel: GoPro, when they went public, they weren't touting the fact that they were a camera that you could take on your bike and skydiving or whatever, right? They were promoting it as a platform, an entertainment platform, like they'd have these channels and whatever. So Wall Street didn't buy it, right? They understood the whole hardware video thing, like phones are whatever are catching up to GoPro. They understood that, and then you had Snapchat go public, and they didn't talk about disappearing text messages and photos. They were talking about the camera and the hardware and being an entertain.
Joel: So to me, Slack coming out saying, we want to be the most important software platform in the world tells me that they understand that the whole messaging thing is getting commoditized, that they can't really compete in that market long term, and that they have to pimp themselves as this monolithic software company. I'm not quite buying it. I think long term, this thing is going to get commoditized. It's going to get eaten up by Microsoft and others, and they're just sort of playing the game to get as much out of Wall Street as they can until the party's over.
Chad: So really, and using Slack, and I've used Slack. What makes it more productive? It's a method of communication. Maybe it's more instant?
Joel: You don't have to weed through spam. To me, that's the, I don't have to weed through marketing messages in my inbox or spam. I can have pretty direct access to people that I want to have direct access to. That's the main value in my opinion.
Chad: But here's the thing, and it's actually a quote from Alicia Liu, who's a software programmer. By lowering the barrier to initiate communication, the hidden side effect is that Slack has the quiet capacity to exponentially increase communication overhead, resulting in much more voluminous, lower quality communications. So many people, it's so easy to get into this and just kind of communicate that there's too fucking much of it. It's one of the things that I've noticed in using Slack. You get into a group and you start obviously chatting and sharing documents and so on and so forth, and there's just too fucking much of it.
Joel: Yeah, and note the fact that with the app store, you can send stickers to people. You can send good, attaboys and good jobs to people, so yeah. There's a growing amount of clutter in Slack that is making it not much better than email.
Chad: Yeah, so you're talking about the spam. These are the people that you want to talk to. I totally get it, but there's so much shit that's in there, and think of it from this standpoint. I'm actually, there's a group that I'm in that has around 10 people. So the conversation that's happening with those 10 people as everybody's trying to provide their points, right? It is almost impossible to keep up with unless you're sitting there and just watching the screen, and then you have to scroll back up, scroll, I mean, it's just, it is ridiculously crazy. So I think our want to get away from email so badly is going to send us into a direction that is not going to make us more productive.
Joel: There are so many ways to communicate with people. It was kind of, I feel a little old saying this, but it was kind of nice when email was the only way, because you and me, we're all Facebook messenger. But most people with me, it's text messaging, email for people that I'm not as close to. I've got LinkedIn messages from people that are professional based. I've got Twitter DMs and whatever going on there, Instagram, I've got to add to the mix now too because I'm getting people to contact me that way. So it's like I kind of long for the days and I feel like the old classified advertisers who, remember when it was just the newspaper that you could look for jobs. Now it's like, I kind of long for the days when I could just go to my one inbox and see messages from everybody. Of course, marketers fuck that up, but that was kind of a nice little system, and email still works.
Chad: Yeah. Gmail kicks a lot of the marketing shit out for me into different tabs.