Beamery vs. Eightfold Cage Match

Cage match time! On this week's podcast, Eightfold AI and Beamery play dueling valuations, following some massive funding rounds. King Kong vs. Godzilla ain't got nothin' on our industry. We even throw startup Gloat into the mix, as they count the investment dollars and look to take on the parade of platform wannabes. Plus, Houston, we have a problem, Toobin is back in ya' face (eww) and it (still) ain't easy on a stripper.

Enjoy another Sovren, Jobvite, and JobAdx powered episode.


Disability Solutions helps forward thinking employers create world class hiring and retention programs for people with disabilities.

INTRO (0s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (20s):

Oh yeah. Free Jeffrey Toobin! Free Jeffrey Toobin! What's up boys and girls? It's your favorite podcast? The Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your cohost, Joel "is this thing on" Cheeseman. And this

Chad (36s):

Is Chad, "just the tip Sowash.

Joel (38s):

And on this week's show, it's an Eightfold versus Beamery cage match. Houston. We have a problem and signing bonuses for strippers. And did I mention Jeffrey Toobin?

Chad (51s):



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Chad (1m 51s):

Oh dude. Belgium just tied it up. Denmark one, Belgium one. Very nice.

Joel (1m 57s):

So you're paying way more attention to this football thing than I am. I'm dealing with a sick four-year-old. So what round is this? Is this something important to move on to another round?

Chad (2m 9s):

It's kind of almost like Round Robin to some extent, right? You're in groups. You got to get out of the groups and Belgium and Denmark are in the same group they're playing today. Portugal is a strong group. Shit. They've got Hungary. Not incredibly amazing, but they also have France in Germany. So yeah, there's a lot, a lot of good football happening.

Joel (2m 33s):

So it's world cup for Europe?

Chad (2m 35s):

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel (2m 36s):

Did I mention a sick four-year-old that I mentioned I'm on about two hours sleep and yeah, forgive me if I'm not as cohesive on this show as I typically am, but I'm gonna do my best to power through this because dammit, the energy is palpable with how you're coming through with the football excitement.

Chad (2m 56s):

I got to say other football, the NFL names Diaggio as the first official spirit sponsor for NFL football. So dude, can you imagine how much Bullet and Johnny Walker would actually cost at an NFL game? Not to mention Philly fans, not just drinking beer, but taking shots. I mean, come on.

Joel (3m 19s):

I'm thinking, just give a two liters of a Bullet out at Philly games. I think that'd be a good, a good choice in the glass containers. Only in the glass containers.

Chad (3m 28s):

So bad.

Joel (3m 29s):

Remember when glass bottles used to be sold at games until Cleveland decided to screw that one up?

Chad (3m 37s):

Yes. Yeah, they are great projectiles.

Joel (3m 40s):

Yeah. So I'm a Holmes and Brady on a Madden this season. That sounds like a double whammy of a curse sadness to me.

Chad (3m 48s):

Yeah. Makes it look good for Justin Fields,

Joel (3m 52s):

Which we're going to Chicago. That's a nice little segue there. We're going to not a public event, but we're gonna go hang out with Joe Shaker and the gang. Little Abby Cheeseman action with skill scout. They're doing some sort of video that they want to send, which scares me a little bit. But I guess, I guess we'll see where that goes. I guess we'll see where that goes. But looking forward to that, Cleveland plays Chicago at Wrigley Field. I'm excited about that for sure.

Chad (4m 18s):

I'm excited!

Joel (4m 19s):

I'm going Cleveland a six to two. What, who? I don't know who's pitching, but I'm going to go with that.

Chad (4m 25s):

We've got that and then the next week. So I've got to spend like four hours in the car with you there and back. Then the next week we're going to Cleveland and we're going to see the Cleveland Indians there as well. We're going to visit our friends at Evergreen podcasts. We're actually next that week in two weeks, we're going to be recording in the podcast studios at Evergreen. So pretty stoked to see Joel in Chicago and our friend Michael in the crew in Cleveland, you

Joel (4m 59s):

Get the Michael Text Czar

Chad (5m 0s):

The Text Czar.

Joel (5m 1s):

The Text Czar yes. I'm going to be real nice to my wife this weekend to hopefully make sure we get the minivan to Chicago. That's the only way to go, baby. The battle buggy, holds at least four kegs. Just so you know,

Chad (5m 16s):

The last thing we want to do is take a Julie's sports car, right?

Joel (5m 19s):

By the way, father's day is this weekend, right? Are you a happy, happy father's day?

Chad (5m 25s):

I'm happy.

Joel (5m 25s):

That's a shout out. I assume that's a worldwide holiday. I don't know. But in the U S if you're a father Happy Father's Day. And if you haven't called your dad, make sure you do that on Sunday. Are you, are you guys going to do anything special?

Chad (5m 37s):

Father's Day's the worst holiday ever. Yeah. It's pretty bad. Nobody cares about Dad. Everybody cares about mom. I mean, seriously, I'll get a chance to be out in the yard and like mow the lawn or something like that. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe I'll cook some, some, some vegan broths. I don't know. But other than that, I'll just enjoy the weekend. Yeah.

Joel (5m 58s):

I want to say I've saw something that Mother's Day is like the number two or three most celebrated holiday after like, you know, it's like Jesus, and then mom, that's kind of like, and dad is somewhere after like the Easter Bunny and or the Leprechaun. I don't know which one. So yeah, we like Chris Rock says, dad's get the big piece of chicken, that's about it in terms of our lives. No one gives a shit anyway, Happy Father's day, everybody happy

Chad (6m 25s):

Father's day. And also this weekend, it is Juneteenth. So happy June 10th, everybody. That is the celebration of emancipation of enslaved African-Americans in the Confederate states and is commemorated the anniversary of June 19th, 1865.

Joel (6m 44s):

Yeah, it was Galveston. Right? And it was texted Galveston in Texas. The final, the final slaves that realized that they're afraid of it was two years after the proclamation was signed because

Chad (6m 54s):

We had to have union soldiers actually get down there to enforce it. Right. And they had to go all the way to Galveston.

Joel (7m 1s):

If only Twitter had existed back in 1865, they showed their shit mass celebrations. Exactly. Also this weekend, shout out eight states are ending, you know, the federal unemployment benefit programs. Those states include Alabama, Idaho, our very own Indiana, Nebraska, New Hampshire. If you're seeing red, you're not alone. North Dakota, West Virginia. And why oming happy no more federal assistance day, everybody on Saturday, if you live in those states, remember

Chad (7m 34s):

Who the politicians are in office today that are cutting that off so that you can ensure not to vote for those sorry, sons of bitches,

Joel (7m 45s):

By the way, they were like, how many didn't vote for Juneteenth? It was like six or something. Yeah. Like 14, 14. Yeah. 14 Republicans. Yeah. So none from our state. I was surprised. I was kind of thinking that was probably going to happen, but none from Indiana, a very conservative state. If you don't, if you don't know,

Chad (8m 3s):

Shout out to our friends, Lynn Bailey and Tyler Weeks for coming out to having dinner and drinks with Julia and I, and actually her team while we were in Portland, we had a great time. Had had some great Italian food, went to this dive bar. It was amazing. I dunno, we stayed up till at least one or something like that. As a matter of fact, drank so much. I actually had the flake out on Lance Hahn. The next day. I couldn't do lunch with him because I just couldn't do any more beer fucking

Joel (8m 34s):

Out. You flaked on Lance. Oh man. That's, that's rough. As if, as if not being a Portland trailblazer fan. Isn't enough. He's got to have you stand him up. So, so who brought the, who brought the edibles? Was that Ty or a Lynn? I'm not saying

Chad (8m 55s):

Doesn't matter in Portland. You can bring whatever the fuck you want. Yeah.

Joel (8m 59s):

I think I can guess. I can guess who brought it, shout out to Deandra. Her friends call her D apparently pits. She is this month's beer drop winner. Yes we am. And we're very excited for her. She, she hates indeed. I don't know if that has come across in past, past, past, but we're going to put some beer in her and get on a zoom call and see if she'll just go apeshit on indeed and give us some scoop. So D happy for you. Again, beer drop is sponsored by our buddies at Adzuna. And by the way, if you haven't signed up to get some free shit from us, what is wrong with you?

Joel (9m 41s):

Where you're not hugged enough as a child, you got to hit up We got free. T-shirts from Emissary. We got beer. Like I mentioned from Adzuna and we got whiskey from our friends at Sovren. If you like any, or all of those three things, you got to head out to and sign up.

Chad (9m 59s):

Plus we're doing a, a bourbon tasting with Wilcox tonight, right? Yeah. Yup. Yup. So not only do you get free beer liquor, or t-shirts delivered to your front door by FedEx or UPS or however the come, but we actually get a chance to sit down and have a tasting. So do that.

Joel (10m 21s):

We're throwing in scotch this month. We kinda threw in an Adam Gordon curve ball. Nice this month. So yeah, it's, it's not it's whiskey without the E, which he was quick to correct me on that. So if, if you're in, if you wanted to know scotch is whiskey without the everything else has the kids or you just spell it bourbon and you're good.

Chad (10m 42s):

Yeah. Cause Pete takes all the E out of it. A big shout out to Australia's TApod kids. That's right. Lauren and Craig are hitting their hundredth episode and they had us on for a chat. So congratulations to them. A hundred episodes. That's a, that's a lot of episodes,

Joel (11m 3s):

Still in diapers at a hundred episodes. What are we up to? What are we up to seven? What?

Chad (11m 8s):

We're approaching 700.

Joel (11m 10s):

Yeah. Lost count somewhere in 2018. I lost Count of all those.

Chad (11m 16s):

You counted? Yeah,

Joel (11m 17s):

Exactly. Shout out for me to young people. Yeah. I said it. So in a recent poll, almost 60% of white collar staff aged 21 to 30 0 1 weren't those the days said that quote, working in a modern collegiate office environment has become more important to them over the past year. This is a, from Bloomberg, which cited a sharp corporation survey, believing we're from home has in some way, hobbled their careers, the majority favor, at least a hybrid work model, post pandemic. So young people get your ass back in the office, get hustle and climb that ladder I'm rooting for you.

Chad (11m 59s):

Yeah. While I sit my ass at home, you should be in the office, a big shout out to a monster. And they're roaring comeback. Did you see this in Forbes? Oh my God. Oh no. Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It was a, it was actually a Scott guts puff piece. I just saw that. So it was funny. I saw this article. I can't remember who sent it to us. Somebody who sent it to us, somebody sent it to us and I read it and I was like, what the fuck is? This is this like 10 years ago? I, I actually reached out to author Jack Kelly, who is the CEO of we cruder to ask if this was a paid piece, he didn't get back to me.

Chad (12m 40s):

I can't imagine that a guy with Kelly's experience a guy's been in the industry for a very long time, but the guy with his experience and background in this space would be so out of touch. I mean, he, he, he had to get paid

Joel (12m 54s):

For this, or he's got like an impending partnership or they want to buy his car. I don't know what's going on. Like the, so when, so the title of the article monster, one of the first job boards plans, a roaring comeback under a new CEO with a focus on the fast growing generation Z. So let's dissect this for a second. They do not have a new CEO. That's the first thing that I thought, oh, the Scott guts has gone. No, he's in his third or fourth year of being CEO. So new it's very 19. I think. Yeah. New is very, I think it's before that anyway, he's definitely not new. And then that they're focusing on the fast growing generation, Z generation Z thinks monster is an energy drink.

Joel (13m 40s):

So to think that you're going to focus on them and get them to come to to find work is, is a little bit, a little bit disillusioned, I guess, would be the best for it. A little bit of a stupidity. I don't know it's this was a great article by Forbes. Thanks

5 (13m 60s):


Joel (14m 3s):

So Beamery kids. This one hit our hit our inboxes this morning. So there's a new all-in-one contender entering the ring kids. Talent operating system. Beamery just raised $138 million. According to tech crunch sources that gives them a valuation of around 800 million. I can, I can feel that unicorn horn growing right, as I tell this story, London-based Beamery plans to use the money, to continue building out more technology, as well as growing its business, which has been expanding quickly and saw a 337% revenue growth year over year in Q4 leading the round by way of its teachers innovation platform is the Ontario teacher's pension fund, which you might remember, Chad was part of the Apollo acquisition of CareerBuilder.

Joel (14m 56s):

These guys love them some, some workforce technology CEO, and co-founder told tech crunch, quote, HR hates having different systems and everything becomes easier when things are inter op, when things sorry, when things inter operate well. This guy is smarter than me. Prior to this, Beamery had raised a total of 300 or $35 million since launching in 2014. This is according to Crunchbase. According to LinkedIn, the company employs about 200 people. Listeners will remember Phenom a competitor was valued at $1.3 billion back in April after raising a hundred million dollar D round with a total funding for Phenom of $161 million.

Joel (15m 41s):

So the all-in-one platform battle wages on Chad, your thoughts?

Chad (15m 46s):

The Pandemic has forced companies to adopt tech much faster, and we're seeing a very frothy market because of it. Although after SmashFly was acquired in 2019, late 2019, I think companies like Beamery are asking themselves today, how have we not been acquired? And how are we not a part of a larger ecosystem? Companies like Beamery and Phenom people are in a very precarious situation as they take on more funding, their price tag becomes inflated and their suitors dwindle, which means, what?

Joel (16m 22s):

It means the froth is getting a little bit crazy at this point in time.

Chad (16m 28s):

So they have to use words like operating system for a recruitment and talent graph. I mean, these are all ways for Beamery to not say applicant tracking system, but that's where they're headed. That's where they have to go especially since they've taken this kind of cash. I think they've got one path after taking this type of cash.

Joel (16m 49s):

Yeah. I mean, this, this race to the top was really started, I think. And I think everything over the last, how many years has been started by Microsoft paying $26 billion for LinkedIn. That sort of was the first domino to fall. And then you had Google get in with Hire and what they're doing. And then everybody thought, holy shit, this whole workforce thing is it there's something there. So money started flooding in and it started with the ATS is, which was reasonable. Right? You had the Jobvites and the iCIMs, et cetera. And now all these, geez, I don't know, they were sort of layers on the ATS, mostly CRM, mostly, you know, mobile technology, whatever started coming in and it's sorta like, okay, are we going to be a feature to the ATS and be acquired?

Joel (17m 35s):

Well, no, that doesn't seem like that's going to be a thing. We can't really just stagnate as a feature on top of the ATS right now. So we've either got to roll the dice and become a platform and compete with these guys. We're going to have to like, just be where we are and investment capital. Usually doesn't like to sit where it is. So all these companies are like, let's roll the dice, write a big ass check to become an all-in-one platform. And this just seems like every month it's like a new site that I don't think any of us would have ever thought would be an all-in-one platform five years ago when they started out are now going to be vying for this space.

Joel (18m 15s):

And it's just like, there are going to be some big winners and they're going to be some mad losers in this space. I don't, I tend to lean Beamery on the loser space, you know, well, well-wishes for them. One of my favorite people as Alison Holbrooke is, is in their marketing team. And I certainly, we like them and they like us. They've sent a shit, but Beamery, doesn't really strike me on the tip of my tongue is like, holy shit. Yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna rule the world, but Hey, I could certainly be wrong. There is just so much fricking money coming into this space. There's gonna be some, some big losers when all is said and done.

Chad (18m 54s):

Yeah. Even more money with Eightfold. What do you think about them?

Joel (18m 58s):

Yeah. So Eightfold. Geez, this one dropped on Friday after we recorded the weekly show. So mountain based or mountain view based Eightfold AI, this was late last week announced that it arrays 220 million hold my beer Beamery series Z round at a valuation of 2.1 billion. You remember ZipRecruiter was valued at about 2.5 billion. Total funding raise today for Eightfold is more than 410 million with more than 350 of that million coming in the last several months. In a release, the company said "funds will be used to continue the rapid growth and development of Eightfold's tech stack." For those not familiar with the company that launched just five years ago, Eightfold uses deep learning and AI to help companies find, recruit, and retain workers, which is a pretty recognizable story.

Joel (19m 48s):

Founder and chief executive Ashutosh Garg said in that same release quote, "current HR systems were designed to address issues from a previous era and they have failed to keep pace with the changing nature of work and the workforce." End quote. The company said it has amassed clients in over a hundred countries and offers its platform in over a dozen languages. According to LinkedIn, they employ a little over 300 people. This was really big news late last week.

Chad (20m 15s):

Back in October, they took 125 million. And I pretty much said the emperor has no clothes and I'm still there. I believe startups like Eightfold need to be more disciplined and focused on becoming a master at something rather than mediocre, or really shitty at everything. When this type of cash is infused into an organization, the pressure to become everything to everyone soon becomes the vision. And what's what's Eightfold's current slogan?

Joel (20m 46s):

I do not know Chad, what their current slogan?

Chad (20m 48s):

The right career for everyone in the world. Jesus, fuckin.

Joel (20m 54s):

7 billion people come to Eightfold.

Chad (20m 57s):

So again, everything to everyone, right? Side notes, side notes. I know first. So I have a better slogan. Eightfold calls their platform, a talent intelligence platform, marketing. Get ready to take notes here. Kids Eightfold gives your talent pipeline, just the tip. Talent intelligence platform by Eightfold.

6 (21m 18s):

Oh,Hell no. Oh, Hell no.

Chad (21m 24s):

Let's talk a little bit about Eightfold. Do you think they're not an old company? It's like 2016. They were founded

Joel (21m 30s):

Yeah. Five years.

Chad (21m 31s):

They were really focused on matching. And then they took the 125 million. And again, they, boom went to, we're going to be all things to everyone. What do you think about that? That's quick. We have individuals who really leadership wise, they're not from this market. Do you buy into this because you didn't, Beamery?

Joel (21m 49s):

There's a lot more heat around Eightfold. It's it's the newer kid on the block, so to speak. I've not talked to anyone on the employer side that says, I use Eightfold and it's amazing. And it's the best thing since sliced bread. Now I will say that a good buddy of mine. This is a shout out to my boy, Kevin Burgess, who I've known forever. I just took a job at Eightfold and seems really optimistic and excited about the opportunity. But I just think, man, these companies have nowhere to go, but IPO or they have to sell to, I don't know, one of the big four or five companies in our space and just the options are really limited. I just, man, we'll see what happens. It's it's a hell of a lot of fun, but these valuations and what these guys are getting is morphing the shit that we saw back in, you know, heyday.

Chad (22m 37s):


Joel (22m 38s):

Headhunter, and these guys go in public. I mean, it's just, it's probably not gonna end well, everybody, it's probably not going to end very well. And by the way, not to jump ahead, but I mean, we got some rumors, rumors that came through from pretty reliable sources. I mean, Smart Recruiters is apparently going to announce another a hundred, $150 million raise really soon. So the amount of money is insane. iCIMS has to go public soon to sort of make some sense of all this stuff, because I don't think ZipRecruiter's IPO had any sort of positivity of where this thing is going. We need someone in, we need someone in the tech and we could argue Zip is tech, but I think publicly or perceptually, it's still a job site.

Joel (23m 21s):

You know, let's get another Workday style company out there and see what happens. But I don't think this is going to end well for a lot of companies.

Chad (23m 27s):

Na, I mean, not to mention, we are blatantly seeing a convergence in the market toward ATS, Beamery phenom Eightfold and many other players in the market. You know who you are, they must hit the ATS head on. So what does that mean for ATS vendors? I mean, you have several Trojan horses in your city right now. They're integrated into your city and now guess what they're going to be competitors. So this is why the ATS is for the most part are slow to partner and become deeply integrated because of the Trojan horse factor. Yeah, there's a convergence.

Chad (24m 8s):

I don't care. If you call an ATS, you can call it a, an experience platform. You can call it an operating system. You can call it the tip. I don't care. Overall. They are all going to be converging in the same area. And that's where winners and losers happens, kids.

Joel (24m 24s):

Yeah. And by the way, my guess is there's going to be a whole new wave of these companies that include, you know, the seek outs and the paradoxes and a few of those higher tool, maybe that want to be a platform as well. And don't want to just be a feature that's, that's integrated into these platforms. So, you know, I think there's a whole other round of, of big money coming to some of those folks. And it's going to, it's just going to get frothier and more competitive and more fun to talk about if you have a podcast, but that's, that's what I foresee in the next 12 months too. Yeah. You'll

Chad (24m 56s):

See. Some of those very smart organizations who have been hyper-focused, they will be acquired by the companies that are getting all this fucking money. And if Eightfold believes they can build this all themselves, man, they are fuck. They're going to kill themselves the scale that they need to be able to, to reach and not to mention as broad as they say, they're going, they're going to have to do some acquisitions and smart companies who have focused and become a master in those areas. They're they're ripe for the pickup.

Joel (25m 28s):

Yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean, we've talked about, jeez, almost all the chat bots are off the board now, and most of which terms of the deal were not disclosed, which is never a great thing for acquisitions. So we'll see, you know, I'd be interested to see if, if the seek outs the higher tools that like, if those guys start going off the board, you know, we've talked about Zuora in the past, that has raised a decent amount of money. We'll see what happens with them. It's been an interesting year and it's gonna continue to be an interesting year and we'll be, we'll be happy to talk about it.

Chad (26m 1s):

Is that a unicorn in your pants? Are you just happy to see me?

Joel (26m 7s):

I'm a little horny, but we'll save that for the end of the podcast. Let's

7 (26m 10s):

Take a quick break.

Jobvite - Summer to Evolve Promo (26m 11s):

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Joel (26m 39s):