Crimes Against Talent Pipelines


You have questions...

  • What is RM automation?

  • What does candidate nurture really mean?

  • What is a true talent pipeline?

  • Are you and your company committing crimes against talent pipelines?

All great questions for any organization, and the boys, partnered with RecruitmentMarketing.com's Julie Calli, bring on CandidateID's Adam Gordon to the podcast to cover a broad range of recruitment marketing questions and challenges. It's a must-listen for any employer looking to take their game to the next level.


PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

Disability Solutions works with employers each step of the way as consultative recruiting and engagement strategists for the disability community.


Adam (1s):

If we do this, then we can stop all of this incessant focus on the application, getting people to apply. It's really desperate and it's not very intelligent.


INTRO (13s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.


Joel (35s):

Oh yeah. Rugby, kilts, and haggis around the menu today. Everybody what's up kids. It's your favorite guilty pleasure. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. And this is our employment brand marketing series. I'm your cohost, Joel "Maggie May" Cheeseman.


Chad (52s):

This is Chad "That's not a talent pipeline" Sowash.


Julie (56s):

Hey there, Julie from recruitment marketing.com here.


Joel (58s):

And on today's show, we're digging into a little recruitment brand automation. Let's do this.


sfx (1m 5s):

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.


Chad (1m 7s):

So Julie, you got your first real podcast under your belt. How you feel now? You feeling a little bit loose, a little looser than before a little ready?


Julie (1m 17s):

Yeah! I know this is all new to me being in this podcast world. And I got to say, I have tremendous respect for what you guys do after the first show.


Joel (1m 24s):

We actually have some live footage of Julie after the recording.


sfx (1m 28s):

Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!


Joel (1m 33s):

She's much, much cooler now.


Chad (1m 35s):

Yes! Much like last week we have a mystery guest this week. Julie, who might that?


Julie (1m 44s):

Oh, well I'm excited to announce our mystery guest, Adam Gordon from CandidateID.


Chad (1m 51s):

That kid's been on the show a few times.


Joel (1m 54s):

He's going to get a jacket soon. Couple more appearances. He gets a kilt.


Chad (2m 1s):

Chad and Cheese kilt.


Joel (2m 3s):

Oh I love that. Shit. Shit. You just blew my mind on that one.


Julie (2m 6s):

More men should wear kilts. I love men in kilts.


Chad (2m 10s):

Dude they are so freaking freeing.


Julie (2m 12s):

Oh man.


Joel (2m 13s):

Are they all your family what plaid? I know it's called something else.


Adam (2m 19s):

It's called tartan. So I've got three Gordon clan tartan kilts. I have just a black kind of what you call it utility kilt. Full of pockets and stuff.


Chad (2m 33s):

Oh yeah.


Adam (2m 35s):

I've got my nighttime kilt, which is the spiderman kilt. That's not for partying. That is for fighting crime.


Julie (2m 43s):

Spiderman has one of those utility kilts as well.


Joel (2m 47s):

Does he have a nighttime kilt too?


Julie (2m 48s):

That is something I'm going to have to explore for Valentine's Day.


Chad (2m 55s):

Well, that being said, Adam, give us a little bit more about your little Twitter bio. If people have been in a corner, haven't been listening to this show, they haven't heard the 20 different podcasts you've been on. Tell them a little bit about you.


Adam (3m 7s):

I live in Glasgow in Scotland with my wife and kids and I'm co-founder and CEO at CandidateID. I've been in recruitment for 23 years this year. My, I love, I love haggis. I love all things Scottish.


sfx (3m 26s):

Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is if it's no Scottish it's crap.


Joel (3m 31s):

And I love rugby.


Adam (3m 31s):

I mean, that wasn't me who said that, but it is correct. The other thing is I'm very, very passionate about crimes against talent pipelining and


Julie (3m 45s):

Well said. I like that term.


Chad (3m 47s):

Talent pipelining, malpractice crimes. I love that. That's awesome.


Adam (3m 51s):

And I'm very passionate about marketing automation as well.


Joel (3m 55s):

Nice segue.


Adam (3m 55s):

In fact, when I started in recruitment, so see like interviewing people, I had almost zero interest in that. At assessing them even less interest, but getting them to the room, you know, getting them from being strangers to actually being in the room to talk to me about the job. That was the bit I loved. So as recruitment has developed in the last 20 years, things like subjects like talent sourcing and recruitment marketing, other things, all of my, all the hunting bit. That's the bit I spent all of my career on.


Julie (4m 31s):

What is, what is recruitment marketing automation?


Adam (4m 33s):

Great question. And not very many people will give the answer to it I'll give. It if we go into, so to set the set up the answer to this, if we go into mainstream sort of sales and marketing, which I believe other than assessing people, I believe recruitment is 100% sales and marketing activity.


Chad (4m 52s):

Well talk about that real quick? Okay. Dig deep into that. Cause we just had Chris Kneeland on the podcast last week, he comes from a marketing background, a brand background. They do business in sales and marketing much different than we do. So why is that? Should it be different? Why is it different?


Adam (5m 9s):

I mean, I think that in mainstream sales and marketing, they think about every touch point as completely unique. And they think about what experience it should give to the individual and how it should make them feel and what it should make them want to do next. And we focus almost all of our thoughts about that into what I would call the point of sale material and like the application. Applying, getting people to apply for a job and then taking them through that application. And we're missing out on experiences in so many other places, other places of recruiting.


Joel (5m 49s):

Adam, I feel like on the consumer side, that marketing automation to me feels very transactional, right? It's Valentine's day, you know, buy a card, buy chocolates, buy something. It's another holiday. Now buy this, do this. And it feels sorta cold. It doesn't feel like a relationship. Do you feel like in recruitment that we get too much into the transactional, like apply to this job, this is open, do this as opposed to building an actual relationship and talking about what the company is, what the culture is. Are there any pitfalls to just being marketing and being transactional?


Adam (6m 26s):

You're absolutely right. And this is why see one of the hot phrases about three or four years ago was treat candidates like consumers and Scott, my co-founder and I looked at that and just went, when you think about consumer, you think about somebody that's making a choice between Coke and Dr. Pepper.


Chad (6m 45s):

It's transactional.


Adam (6m 46s):

It's a point of sale choice. It's not a considered purchase. So this is why when we think about marketing automation, we think about it much more in the B2B sort of process of marketing automation, which is not about the transaction. It's about the nurture. It's about the relationship building through awareness and education and consideration into the point where they bought a new Audi or a new holiday or a new wedding venue or whatever it is, something that's much more high consideration. So it's either an expensive consumer purchase rather than, you know, Mars or Bounty, or it is a B2B purchase, like who should my next advertising agency be?


Adam (7m 29s):

Who should my lawyers be? Which operating system should ERP system, should I choose? You know, those types of things. So it's very different.


Joel (7m 37s):

You're the tech behind that? How do you educate or help steer the employer to that mentality and not just let stuff jobs down their throats?


Chad (7m 46s):

Drag them.


Adam (7m 47s):

I mean, I right now, so if I think about almost every company that's doing recruitment marketing, as I mentioned, I think that they're focused on the point of sale, but the transaction bit, and those companies who are coming in and working with us, or they're using some kind of a marketing automation type of approach, they're the ones that have really understood that most people couldn't care less about their EVP today and don't care about their pay and don't care who they'd be working with or anything like that. But what they do care about is things like skills, insights, things that help them be more successful in their career. And if they can talk to them way up stream and be useful and be relevant, then they're generating Goodwill with those people long before they're trying to turn them into a candidate.


Chad (8m 32s):

So question around again, talent pipelining. And we take a look and we're still trying to run these parallels between marketing and sales. Now, if I were a CMO and I spent a million dollars on leads, and then I didn't use those leads, they just a withered and died. Do you think I'd have my job for a long?


Adam (8m 54s):

Absolutely not. And this is like, you don't get salespeople saying, well, that lead wasn't ready to buy so, you know, it was pointless. They're they're not like in a company like,


Chad (9m 4s):

Yes, right. It's part of the process, part of the funnel, not everybody's ready to buy today.


Adam (9m 8s):

What you really want is, if I'm in sales and marketing is if I'm in sales at service number, I can't be like service now. I don't want to talk to people who aren't ready to buy that's a complete waste of my time. I only want to talk to people who have done all of the education themselves. They've been through a considered journey. They've done it in their own time. And you know, they might not have done it in a linear, like, you know, blast. They might have done it in a over time and like micro moments over the last couple of years, they might've been learning about Service Now, but when their activity and behavior gets to a point where they're starting to request, what's our pricing? You know, or those types of like bottom of the funnel kind of bits of information that's been, I want to know who's looking for our pricing.


Adam (9m 53s):

I want to talk to those people. I don't want to want to talk to people who are like looking at real surface level type stuff. And if my marketing team is using that sales nurture, lead nurture type of approach, and they're using the right type of technology, that's tracking and scoring all of those sales prospects clicks, that all I'm getting is hot leads and I'm not cold contacting people ever.


Julie (10m 22s):

I've always liked to refer to that as like digital body language. Like, what are you doing with your body and your digital language of what you're clicking on and the activity? What kind of signals are you looking for from the candidates to indicate activity of interest?


Adam (10m 41s):

Well, I love that digital body language is a really great description, Julie. The types, so when, what we recommend to our customers is, and in fact, on Joel's point, we do a lot of education because we're not, we're teaching companies to really farm their talent pipelines properly rather than just send out like an email blast every week. We're teaching them to do it in a completely different way. So you've got candidates who are cold, who are warm and who are hire ready. And might I don't, I've not made a mistake there using the word candidate. I believe everybody is a candidate until they retire. Or they're a candidate to me as somebody who might go out and try and hire them.


Adam (11m 25s):

It doesn't matter if they think they're a candidate is about whether I think they're a candidate or not. So that's one thing. But what we're looking for in terms of digital signals is, are they looking at the content, which suggests that they are ready for a hiring conversation. So obviously who looked at the job description, but did not click the apply button yet. They're the candidates that I want to know as a talent sourcer or recruiter. I want those hot leads coming into me. If they're looking at content, which is like skills for data scientists that suggest they're ready for a conversation yet they're looking at, what's it like to work in Amazon as a data scientist, that's a much hotter signal.


Adam (12m 7s):

So you would wait all of those clicks so that, you know, what's meaningful and what's not. And then adapt that as you learn more.


Chad (12m 16s):

So you're scoring them, but scoring's the other side of nurturing, right? You have to understand where they're at and hot, cold, warm, what have you. So what does nurture actually mean to you and how do you actually get it done? Because it seems like what we're doing today is nothing but rapid fire spamming. And that is become pretty much table stakes. How do you get away from the spamming quote, unquote, "nurturing" and get into actual nurturing way? And what's the definition from you?


Adam (12m 46s):

I think just going back to Julie's original question, which was about, you know, what's marketing automation? Marketing automation is a type of technology which will track and score all of those clicks from emails, from text messages, from WhatsApp on the career site. It'll track clicks around social media, around Glassdoor, around YouTube. And so when you're able to track that level of digital engagement, then you can start to set up workflows, marketing workflows based on each click, not based on what happens with probably about 99.9% of what we call in America gets called a talent network, which is a three-step drip email campaign, which they call nurture, which is not.


Adam (13m 30s):

It's just, I'm going to batch and blast the same thing to everybody today and then set up another one for three days later. And another one for three days later, and everybody gets the same thing. With marketing automation what you get to do is set up programmatic workflows, where if somebody's looking at the surface level type stuff, then they're probably cold, which means don't start sending them job descriptions. When somebody warm, they're looking at the EVP, that kind of thing, then give them more about what it's like to work at the company. And then when they're hire` ready, when they're looking at job descriptions, that's the point when the sourcer gets an alert to tell them, to pick up the phone and get a one-to-one conversation.


Adam (14m 12s):

So nurture has to happen in a way that the candidates are going to want or the prospects or whatever you want to call them. What they're going to want. Nobody wants spam with job descriptions if they're not looking for a job. They want things that are useful and relevant to them and their career. So it's all about personalization at scale. That's true nurture.


Joel (14m 30s):

Yeah. I love that. You mentioned WhatsApp and SMS and some other ways to communicate. And I think there's one question that we always think about is like, what do people actually respond to? Right? Email is dead. No one answers this, no one talks on the phone, but I don't think we ever think about nurturing and messaging in a way that says, okay, where do people want to hear from employers? I think LinkedIn might be an obvious choice, but if, if WhatsApp is where I talk to my friends, do I really want an employer butting in and communicating? Now I might actually get my message through, but is it the messaging? Is it the engagement that an employer should be looking for? Do you have any thoughts on that?


Adam (15m 12s):

Yeah. This is the beauty of marketing automation. You're able to track and score what everybody's doing. So when you get into the data, you can see what's working and what's not. So if you're able to get 100% of your WhatsApp messages to people, but it's driving 2% engagement, whereas text message is driving 10% and emails driving 35%, then keep emailing and stop WhatsApping people. Or set up a set of workflows so that those people who respond to things by clicking on them at WhatsApp, they keep getting things by WhatsApp and the people who do it by email, they keep getting things by email. You can, you can create programmatic workflows where people get the type of content that they want, in the formats that they want, through the channels that they want on the days of the week that they want, based on their previous behavior.


Adam (16m 5s):

So, you know, I'll just on that, on channels. What we know is that more blue collar type jobs where maybe they're less likely to be on a laptop or a desktop or an email, then things like text message worked much better. Whereas this concept that email's dead is absolutely wrong when it comes to sort of highly skilled professions, like a data science or clinical project managers, or, you know, optometrists and things like that. They're actually all on email quite regularly because they use it almost as like air traffic control for all the different apps and things that they use.


Joel (16m 43s):

Yeah. And have you, have you found it being a moving target at all? I know you've been doing this for a while, but obviously, you know, Snapchat is obviously gaining prominence and, you know, TikTok, are you seeing it being volatile with what works and what doesn't and that's a moving target, I think would be tough to a tough problem to solve from your perspective.


Adam (17m 4s):

I mean, I think dynamic is probably a slightly more accurate term than description for me from my view vision, then dynamic is probably a better word than volatile. The thing is you try the very best practitioners of recruitment marketing automation are just constantly adapting what they're doing cause they can see every day what's working better today. What's what are the trends? Because they can see it from their analytics. So because they know what's working, what's not, they just keep getting better and better. I mean, some of the RPU businesses that I know have got teams of specialists who are like real, I'm pretty confident I can describe the most world-class practitioners around, you know, recruitment marketing automation, and this kind of concept of nurture marketing.


Adam (17m 55s):

Whereas a lot of fortune 500 companies, honestly, they tell me what they're doing to try to nurture their talent pipeline. I'm like that is not nurture and that is not a talent pipeline. You're setting up a spam list is all you're doing here and you don't know who's clicking on it or what they're doing next. So no wonder your recruiters aren't engaged in it because you can't actually give them hot leads. Like who opened an email and didn't open an email. It means nothing. It's totally meaningless. That is a crime against talent pipeline.


Chad (18m 27s):

So the big difference between talent acquisition and RPO is RPO it's a business and they run it like a business. Talent acquisition it's a job and they don't run it like a business, which is one of the reasons why we don't see ourselves in the C-suite that much. Now jumping into all of this since marketing has such a already a history with using this tech, being able to create marketing messages, you know, drive leads those types of things. When should the TA side of the house actually engage marketing? Should they number one or should marketing actually own this?


Adam (19m 7s):

No marketing should definitely not own this or it'll get no priority whatsoever. I know my wife is a chief marketing officer and anytime she's ever had a recruitment internal TA teams coming to her up looking for help, she's like, no, mate, I'm sorry, it's not, I get fired if I don't do my job, I don't get fired if I don't do your job. So unfortunately, you know, you need, you need the expertise within your TA organization. If you have a TA team of three people, then that's going to be pretty difficult. If you've got a TA organization of 10, then at least two people should be focused on talent pipelining and nurture marketing.


Adam (19m 48s):

So I've seen quite a lot of companies where they've really changed the approach based on the new found ability to actually track and score candidates and do marketing automation. So one company based in the UK, well actually their headquarters in the UK, but they're in about 10 different countries. It's an optometry retailer. I think it's the biggest outside the USA and they're constantly hiring optometrists. And they started in the beginning of 2017. They started with 24, 360 degree recruiters. By the end of that year, four of those people had switched jobs to nurturing talent pipelines. And that combined unit of 24 people was filling 50% more jobs per month because the recruiters were no longer cold calling people.


Adam (20m 33s):

They were purely dealing with warm leads. And you know, if you can cut that out, it's just the concept of cold contacting people. No matter how good at sourcing you are, no matter how good your rapport building skills are. Cold contacting people is there's just never today the optimum way of getting your shortlist.


Joel (20m 53s):

I get fired for not doing my job. I don't get fired for not doing your job. What a great summary of how marketing feels about recruiting.


Chad (21m 2s):

Yeah, but wait a minute. Let's back into that real quick, that just demonstrates to the rest of the organization, that talent isn't that important. It is not a part of her job. Although driving leads or brand for the holistic organization is. Now that's a transactional exercise. You're trying to get somebody to buy a $400 Yeti cooler, but what's more important? The people who actually fucking make that cooler, right? The people, who have their 40 hours of blood, sweat, and tears who actually enjoy, hopefully enjoy their job. So I think what Adam just really pinpointed was, I mean his wife, I mean, yeah, she has responsibilities, but the organization doesn't understand how important talent is.


Chad (21m 52s):

If it was, that might be one of her core responsibilities.


Julie (21m 54s):

We also ask the practitioners and the recruiters who have these expectations have really strong competencies of human skills right there on the phone, trying to close the deal, try and close the sale, say, Hey, come work with us and give us your 40 hours a week for the rest of your life, or as long as you'll stay with us. But then you throw in that really sexy words that you put together in a string they're programmatic, automated workflows, like is the competency of someone who, you know, is working in HR and is supposed to be on the phone, talking to the people in the program, trying to set up the right rule set, right lead scoring, and build that pipeline.


Julie (22m 37s):

It's a conflict of their time. So I love what you said, Adam, that, you know, that is the game where people are able to open the flood gate at the top so that they can have more results at the bottom, but to expect to do both, is that, is that realistic that someone can do both of those things with their time?


Adam (22m 56s):

Definitely not. Definitely not. It's completely different. It's a completely different skill set. Can some recruiters adapt to this type of skillset, which is about, some of it's about creativity, some of it is about being good at using technology and some of it is, is about data analysis. And, you know, talent sourcers can, are, I've got exactly the right type of skill set for this because they are creative and they're very, very good at data analysis. Recruit, some recruiters can do this. A lot of recruiters find it very difficult because of the type of training they've had in the way that they look at the world. But the trend that I see the most, which I just love is the trend of bringing people in from digital marketing performance, performance marketing backgrounds, into the TA organization to drive the pipeline.


Adam (23m 48s):

It's all about funnel metrics. How many people are cold, how many people are warm, how many people are hire ready, and then splitting that up by different job categories and locations, and then getting everybody out of cold and into warm. You probably don't want everybody in hire ready because then you're going to disappoint a lot of people. There's not enough jobs to go around, but getting everybody from cold to warm is quite a fun sort of process.


Joel (24m 11s):

Adam, is it your experience that you're seeing more companies create liaisons or people that speak both marketing and recruiting to be in the middle of that conversation? And if you are you seeing more post pandemic when people are making decisions around what we're going to do with recruitment marketing?


Adam (24m 29s):

I don't see marketing being involved all that often, except for handing over the brand guidelines, you know, maybe being involved at the beginning to agree or consult, advise on. Yeah, we think that's a good strategy that you're doing, go do it. HR and recruit recruitment should never be subservient to marketing. Otherwise they're not going to be allowed to do what they want to do. And so, you know, it's comes back to that whole seat at the table type thing, you know, that, that conversation. And I think if marketing says, no, you say go away. I'm doing it. It's nothing to do with you. So, you know, that's sort of what has to happen.


Adam (25m 10s):

But anyway, to answer the question, I just love the fact that a lot of TA organizations are hiring people from pure demand generation performance marketing backgrounds into their business to do this. And that will continue and that will accelerate. And the pandemic has definitely accelerated that because more TA leaders have had more time to look at, are we doing this in the right way? You know, they're not traveling as much anymore. So are we doing this? They've got more time to think about, are we doing this in the right way? How could we make this better? And they're actually spending more time with each other, like online, things like that, learning from peers on like meetups and round tables and social media groups and things like that.


Adam (25m 52s):

So I think that this whole concept is becoming more popular.


Chad (25m 57s):

We did an interview with Brandon Lynn, who's in marketing for Freedom Mortgage. Now he's been on the recruiting side for his entire career until he went to Freedom Mortgage and they pulled him into marketing and he said, it's bliss because he reports to marketing but yet he's responsible for employer brand. It's more of I think, more of an evolved type of model, not saying one model is better than the other, but at that point they understand within their organization how crucial it is to fill those seats, which is why marketing has that responsibility. Do you think we'll see that evolution or you just think that's kind of like a blip in the radar.


Chad (26m 40s):

We'll only see a few organizations actually understand just how important talent is, which is pulling them into marketing.


Adam (26m 47s):

So every employer is different and I know Brandon. Freedom Mortgage is one of our customers. And I think it's unusual though, for that person to be sitting within marketing and you know, I don't think it's bad necessarily, but I feel like if the recruitment team, if the TA team, is unable to get enough candidates, then they can easily just blame a completely different team in marketing. So who takes accountability for this? There's , you know, a gap. There's, like a crack in the sidewalk here. I think that it has to be within the one role reporting into the one person or else there's a blame game that can happen when recruitment goes wrong and recruitment goes wrong 90% of the time.


Adam (27m 32s):

So, I think it's quite important that the TA organization builds its own capabilities and they're as good as their cousins in marketing. Another point about this is by the way, almost everything is marketing today. Every other area of HR is also marketing. Everything to do with reward, everything to do with organizational design and structure, everything to do with like L and D. There's a considerable marketing input into all of that. And you know, I'm not involved in it so I don't know whether that's emerged yet or not, but it really should have done.


Joel (28m 10s):

Do you feel that globally as well? I know you have a lot of international clients. I don't know if you've seen any trends where yeah, this is a global issue or, you know what, it hasn't quite hit some of these other areas?


Adam (28m 23s):

It's difficult to say. It's like 70% of the companies that I work with are UK or USA. I think it's actually about 80% and the other 20% are kind of Western Europe or North America like Canada or Netherlands or whatever. I mean, I think, that if you go the further east you go in Europe, probably the less likely that now this that's nonsense. I was just gonna get myself in a lot of trouble there because there's real hotspots of talent acquisition excellence in places like Poland and Estonia.


Joel (28m 55s):

You're in a growth industry. I think it's fair to say you're in a growth industry.


Adam (28m 58s):

I don't know the answer.


Joel (29m 0s):

I think there's a lot of room to grow internationally with your business and recruitment marketing automation.


Adam (29m 7s):

Yeah, I agree. I mean, we, so we're playing quite a patient game here because we launched the first version of our product in January 2017. And it worked really well, but it was very hard to use. So we really started our business as a tech enabled service. And then by 2020, September 2020, we had completely rebuilt and relaunched the product. And it's now very much because you know, our customers use it themselves. So it's a lot easier to use. It's a lot more drag and drop and simple to use workflow builders and things like that. And, but still, I think even in the, you know, sophisticated environments like the UK and the USA, I think that it's probably only 20% of TA teams that have the right thinking and capability to do recruitment marketing automation.


Adam (29m 54s):

But the reason that we're being patient is because we know it's the right thing to do. I, 100%, you know, we created our business because we saw that recruitment CRM was simply not the answer. And you know, that we were providing a better solution than that. And, you know, people are really starting to agree with this. And I can see that by the growth of my customer base.


Joel (30m 20s):

One of your, one of your products is alumni engagement or one of the things that you, you market on your website. And I don't think a lot of people think about recruitment marketing automation or what you do in terms of alumni or people that used to work there and boomerangs. And this is a growing trend. Talk about that and how companies should be thinking about it.


Adam (30m 40s):

Employers need to think about, Julie made a great point on the last podcast, which was that, you know, people are moving jobs more often and they want a different type of relationship with an employer now. They want a lot more flexibility to work in the ways that they want, you know, and it's really more about candidates than it is about the employer and what they're offering now so we need to really adapt. And what that means is because people are moving jobs more often, we need to build relationships with people from the moment they leave school to the moment they retire all the way through and arguably before they hit the workforce and after they retire. So with a marketing automation type of approach, what you can do is nurture the relationships with people who are at university, training to become a software engineer, or in college, we can nurture the relationships with those people, right at the point that they've decided they're going to train to go and do this job.


Adam (31m 40s):

And we can provide them with useful, relevant stuff that's going to help them during their studies and then try and Hoover them up as of not a very humane term, but you know,


Joel (31m 55s):

Hoover them up?


Chad (31m 55s):

Suck em up. Wouldnt that be Dyson them up where you're at?


Adam (31m 59s):

It would be. Yeah. So we Dyson them up at the point that they leave academia and enter the workplace. And then, you know, they might come and work in our organization five different times during their career in five different jobs. And what you want is a system where when the individual is marked as they're leaving on the 25th of February that moves them from being an internal person who's getting not internal nurture around career opportunities with the organization, internal L and D opportunities. You know, news about what's going on, the sort of stuff that's keeping them engaged. . Automatically they go into a different talent pipeline, which is for alumni.


Adam (32m 44s):

And that's going to share with things like employee, referral options, jobs, but also skills that are going to help them with their career outside of your organization until they come back. We want our, I think Allyn Bailey has been on the Chad and Cheese podcast and she's talked about this concept of the infinity loop. The infinity loop is all about a nonstop relationship. It doesn't matter if they're working for you today or they're no, it doesn't matter if they're mid interview process or they've just left you, you should have some way of maintaining that relationship with the right type of intelligent communication for them, depending on where they are.


Julie (33m 27s):

Yeah. Evangelizing all of the people that you engage with through your business, including your employees past, current and future.


Adam (33m 34s):

Absolutely. Which is why if we do that, if we do this, then we can stop all of this incessant focus on the application, getting people to apply. It's really desperate and it's not very intelligent. What's much more intelligent is maintaining an ongoing relationship with those people rather than having to do that distressed purchase. Advertising is vital. It's really vital recruitment advertising is really important, but if your entire recruitment marketing effort is based on advertising, then you're just in a constant distress purchase scenario.


Adam (34m 16s):

And you've never got a talent pipeline.


Chad (34m 19s):

Get that a distressed you're in a distress situation at all times, which is exactly what recruiting feels like. You shouldn't be distressed. You should be nurturing. You should be building talent pipelines all coming from our friend, Adam Gordon, CEO CandidateID. Adam, thanks so much for joining us. I mean, we want to press harder and challenge talent acquisition, and recruiting to adopt faster, to get out there and take chances. If they want to take chances, they want to take a look at something that is more fashion forward. How can they get ahold of you? And, where would you send them to go check out CandidateID?


Adam (35m 0s):

I would send them, I'm easy to find on Twitter, on LinkedIn, on Facebook, Adam Gordon CandidateID.


Joel (35m 9s):

OnlyFans.


Adam (35m 10s):

I'm not on OnlyFans yet, but maybe my next career. And I would encourage people to, for a bit more information about this subject I would encourage people to Google CandidateID Talent Pipeline Playbook. There are probably more recent versions than that, this is about three years old, but it's still just, it is a how to around marketing automation and talent pipelining - the Talent Pipeline Playbook.


Joel (35m 38s):

Love it. Chad, Julie, another one in the can.


Joel, Chad and Julie (35m 42s):

We out.


Chad (35m 44s):

Thank you for listening. So what's it called podcast?


OUTRO (36m 28s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.

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