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Google Battleplan: Crushing Indeed & ZipRecruiter

Elon is just the gift that keeps on giving, isn’t he? But this week is particularly special as Twitter, er, X, or whatever, has gone through a rebrand, and more importantly, getting into recruitment with the launch of Twitter Hiring. Not to be outdone, Google is set to launch a full-on PPC solution for its Google for Jobs offering. How will Indeed and others respond? We discuss. What’s more, DEI initiatives are on life-support according to a recent Wall Street Journal article and Eons 2.0 is here in the form of Peppermint. And in China, young adults becoming perma-children as a form of employment is now a thing. Yeah, really. By the way, Chad is back in the USA after his stint in Europe, and let’s just say the disappointment is strong, which you’ll see on our YouTube channel.


Music: Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back.

Joel Cheesman: He's back, baby.

Speaker 1: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel Cheesman: Oh, yeah. It's National Hamburger Day. That means White Castles for breakfast, Big Macs for lunch, and Whoppers for dinner. What's up, boys and girls? You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host, Joel "old-timer with" Cheesman.

Chad Sowash: This is Chad "Euro Chad will return" Sowash.

Joel Cheesman: And on this week's show, Elon is X-rated, DEI goes down, and Google for jobs marches on. Let's do this.


Speaker 1: USA, USA, USA, USA, USA.

Joel Cheesman: Oh my God, dude. The picture of you on the socials, in the airport, coming back to the US, man. Just salty, salty, salty.

Chad Sowash: Hating it, hating it, hating it. I mean... But I gotta say, what a great two-and-a-half months away in Europe. All the different countries that we visited were very, very different. Yet all incredibly welcoming in their own way. We went to... Had some time on the islands of Madeira, which are just fucking gorgeous.

Joel Cheesman: Yep.

Chad Sowash: And a week in Vienna, a week in Krackow, a few days in Stamford, England. Then on our way to RecFest for an amazing event. After RecFest, we actually hosted friends at our place in the Algarve for a week. And then after that, we had a week-and-a-half of absolutely nothing, until we got back stateside, just yesterday. So it was a great, great time. Next time, I think we're gonna spend the entire time just at home, on the southern coast of Portugal.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. So let's break down the world tour for the rest of the year. You're in the States for like a couple months?

Chad Sowash: Yeah, until Paris, baby... Until Unleash, Paris, which we'll talk about in advance. And then we'll be out and about, in about then. But if listeners... Obviously, you've been keeping track. I've had different backgrounds every week for the last two-and-a-half months, whether I was in Krackow, Vienna. We were in a fricking hotel rooms in England.

Joel Cheesman: Yep.

Chad Sowash: You were in Liverpool and I was in Knebworth.

Joel Cheesman: Yep.

Chad Sowash: But yeah, we're all over the place, having a great time and just trying to live the life, baby.

Joel Cheesman: Well, I'm glad to have you back. No more crazy time zone shit, like regular time. And I'm sure your dogs are glad to see you.

Chad Sowash: Yes. They know that they get away with a little bit more the first week that we're home. So, they're enjoying that as well. All three of 'em.

Joel Cheesman: All let's get to it.

Speaker 1: Shout out.

Chad Sowash: All right. I'm gonna roll into shout outs if you don't mind, right out of the gate. And this is gonna be very, very tearful. First shout out to Julie Sowash. So the pinnacle of the trip... And you're gonna find this to be quite hilarious after what I just said... Was building a shed with my wife. Yes. So we needed a shed. So I took the measurements, and I asked Julie...

Joel Cheesman: Not a tent?

Chad Sowash: No, a shed.

Joel Cheesman: Okay.

Chad Sowash: A shed. Yeah, shed. And the fucking thing must have been made by Ikea. There were so many pieces for no apparent goddamn reason. The directions were total shit. So over a two day and nine hour build, which should have taken about four hours. We didn't have one fight. Nobody raised their voices. And it was... It wasn't marital bliss, but I tell you what, shout out to the true test of marital patience and love: That's Ikea, or building a fucking shed like this. So shout out to Julie Sowash.

Speaker 1: All right. All right. All right.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, that's definitely like, Euro Chad, laid back.

Chad Sowash: Oh yeah.

Joel Cheesman: Beach front... Like, that Columbus, Indiana. It's like full-blown, karate fight. It's different here, here back in the States. Well, my first shout out goes to a fallen monster, if you will. So we both remember the days of Super Bowl ads and...

Chad Sowash: Yep.

Joel Cheesman: Parties and zeppelins and all kinds of stuff. Well, you think Monster is dead. Well, think again, Chad. Think again. They've announced that they will remain the official job board of the Boston Red Sox through 2023 and into 2024. As part of the partnership, they'll release a comedic short film called, "The mascot within", featuring the Red Sox mascot, Wally. News to me. The film follows Wally's journey to discover his perfect job at Fenway Park with the help of, you guessed it, Fans also have a chance to win special game seats and a VIP tour of Fenway Park. Who needs Super Bowl ads? Monster is back, baby. Go Sox, who are closing in on last place in the AL East, by the way. The Yankees are in the basement, just in case you're wondering. I know you've been gone from America for a while. Probably not a lot of Yankees news in Portugal.

Chad Sowash: Yeah. No, no, no. A lot of New York Yankees hats, though. Nobody knows what they are, but they know it's New York, so it's...

Joel Cheesman: Yeah.

Chad Sowash: It's got a great brand. It's funny because the Monster's mascot Trump, they don't have anymore. So they had to use somebody's mascot. Might as well be the Red Sox. I want to shout out to Listener Love. So being gone for the last two-and-a-half months, we've been lucky enough to have some presents just pile up around here.

Joel Cheesman: I love listener love.

Chad Sowash: First and foremost was a bottle of Woodford Reserve Double Oaked.

Joel Cheesman: Oh, c'mon now.

Speaker 1: Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Chad Sowash: From Mike Fitzsimmons over at Crosschq. And then, I got two bags of my favorite Turkish coffee with proper coffee cups, the actual Turkish coffee cups, from Maya Huber and our friends over at Tadio. And not to be outdone, our friend Evan White... Get ready for this kids... Sent a 2.75 liter... Look at that... 2.75 liter...

Joel Cheesman: That escalated quickly.

Chad Sowash: Bottle of Eagle Rare to Julie.

Joel Cheesman: Two five liters, okay?

Chad Sowash: Yes, yes. To Julie, which detailed that this bottle could help her through the struggles of being my wife, which I thought was hilarious. Now, a normal sized bottle... Look, you gotta see normal sized bottle, 750 milliliters. This is almost two and a half times that. I mean, Evan was not fucking around, kids. So shout out to Mike Maya and our friend Evan.

Joel Cheesman: Evan is getting a lot of use outta that Costco card, that's all I'm saying. [laughter] That's the only place I could think, that you could get that big of a bottle.

Chad Sowash: Yes. No shit. Right? Right?

Joel Cheesman: Of eagle Rare. Jesus [laughter] Jesus.

Speaker 1: . All. Right. All right. All right.

Joel Cheesman: All right Chad, my next shout out. You don't normally think of fast food when it comes to saving the planet [laughter], but QSR Magazine is predicting restaurants will lead the green charge. That's right. While it only takes five minutes to fill up your gas tank, it takes up to 30 minutes to charge your car. And restaurants like Subway and Starbucks, are betting that you'll come in to charge and get a snack while you're waiting. More than 84 million people eat at quick serve restaurants, every day in the US. I'm one of those 84 million on most days, anyway. And more and more locations are hoping you'll make your choice based on a cheap charge. Shout out to fast food restaurants, greening the world.

Chad Sowash: And I gotta say the Midwest could actually say that it is the capital, the fast food capital, of the world. Because I think that that is probably 99.9% of the restaurants that we have here in flyover country, by the way.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, yeah. Look, either gas stations are gonna have to become more sit down, hang out, wifi places, or yeah, like restaurants are perfect opportunities to build these out. And they had nice little drawings. If you want to Google, "QSR fast food EVs", like new subways look like the old root beer place, the A&W.

Chad Sowash: Oh yeah. A&Ws yeah.

Joel Cheesman: And the... So it's like you park your car, plug it in, order a sandwich and a Sarsaparilla. Like, sounds like heaven to me, I'm in. [laughter] I'm down, I'm down.

Chad Sowash: Does the wait staff, do they roll around on skates? I mean, 'cause that that was a thing.

Joel Cheesman: Well, by then there'll be robots and the robots will probably just wheel around and...

Chad Sowash: Ah, good call.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, and we won't have people at these places.

Chad Sowash: Yeah. But what we will have, Joel, is t-shirts. So the social... All over the socials, they've been blowing up with Chad and Cheese T-shirt sightings. PhD, Andrea Dehrler Duerr over at Visier, our favorite turnover contagion specialist. Also Melissa Bordas and Catherine Henry, all sporting the new Chad and Cheese threads on the socials. Shelly Billinghurst created a new recruitment Flex logo wearing Chad and Cheese, while drinking a bourbon. Very apropos Shelly, very apropos. And last but not least, Bill Fanning sent me a message and he said, "We made the t-shirts too soft. His wife keeps stealing his." Well, you know what Bill, mission accomplished. That's right. But you cannot win a Chad and Cheese t-shirts from our friends at JobGet, if you don't register at Just click the free link in the header, and there you go. But wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. What else can you win, Joel? There there's more, right?

Joel Cheesman: Oh my. Not just t-shirts... And by the way, Bill, you can never go too soft or too hard.

Speaker 1: What are you doing Step bro?


Joel Cheesman: That's right. And we can announce this month's winners actually. Stacy Shaw was our whiskey winner from our friends at Textkernel. Colin Parker is our beer winner from Aspen Tech Labs. And our rum with Plum, celebrating her birthday, was Suzanne Parham this month. So yes, but you can't win if you don't play, kids.

Chad Sowash: What about our getaway? We need a getaway winner.

Joel Cheesman: I'm passing that to you after I say you gotta go to But that's not all you can win, Chad.

Chad Sowash: That's right. You can actually win a $250... That's right, $250 Airbnb card for a getaway from our friends at Abode HR. They are the specialists in being able to help you get your GenZ-ers in place. That's right. Abode HR, $250 Airbnb card. You gotta go to Click on free, register, all of that booty. The bounty of that booty could be yours. Maybe.


Joel Cheesman: All the booty. By the way, we don't say it enough, but if you haven't left us a review on your favorite podcast platform of choice, please do so. Whether it's positive or negative, we love the feedback.

Chad Sowash: Give it.

Joel Cheesman: No matter what. No matter what. Here, it is.


Speaker 1: Can you feel the tension in the air right now, [laughter]? I know I can. I can feel it all the way down in my plums.

Joel Cheesman: A few fans are celebrating another trip around the sun with a birthday this week. That includes Dustin Carper, Jeremy Bright, Drew Field, Jim Schneider, Joe Wilke, Mary Lanahan, Sarah Berlin, Ashley Smith, Julia Levy, Damon Ashley, Brian Cheney, Crystal Ley, Marin Hogan... Wow. Jason Besier and...

Speaker 1: Takeoff, Lee. We're doing our movie. Don't wreck our show you Hozer.

Joel Cheesman: That's right. You mentioned Shelly, but Sayers Boudreaux is also celebrating a birthday. So happy...

Speaker 1: Happy birthday.

Joel Cheesman: Happy birthday everybody. Happy birthday.

Chad Sowash: That's right. That's right. Guess what time it is?

Joel Cheesman: Oh.

Chad Sowash: Shaker Recruitment Marketing. We are on the road again, RecFest, Nashville on September 13th and 14th. The Chad and Cheese will emceeing the Disrupt stage. We're gonna be there all of day one. There's two days, two days. All of day one. We get a rest on the Sabbath being the seventh day and... [laughter] or the second day in this case. And we're gonna have some special, special guests on stage. So come out, check us out. Then we're going to HR Tech in Vegas, October 10th through the 13th, where we will be spending two whole days in the Fuel50 booth, drinking, interviewing, and doing whatever the hell we want, 'cause I'm sure that's exactly what they want. Plus, I hear we're gonna have guests which are carbon copies of the Chad and Cheese.

Joel Cheesman: Just a rumor, Chad, just a rumor. Don't get the masses too excited too quickly. It's just a rumor at this point.

Chad Sowash: Last but not least, a few days later, just a few days later, we're going back to Europe, baby. That's right. Getting on a plane and we're heading to Paris for Unleash World, October 17th and 18th. It is a staple event in HR and recruiting industry. And if you're a startup, which I know a good amount of you probably are, you should check out the Digital Startup Competition. We can see you there at Go to events in the upper right hand corner. Register, register, register. Can't wait to see you.

Joel Cheesman: Thank God, we have August to recover. Our poor livers need a break.

Chad Sowash: Yes.

Speaker 1: Starbucks.

Joel Cheesman: Oh boy, oh boy. Okay, Twitter is getting into recruitment.

Chad Sowash: What?

Joel Cheesman: But let's talk about the name change real quick, Chad. Twitter is now X. The company said, "The Twitter name made sense when it was just a 140 character messages going back and forth, like birds tweeting. But now, you can post almost anything, hinting a super app was coming." Chad, your thoughts on Twitter becoming X.

Chad Sowash: Elon Musk is literally taking everything away that made Twitter great. It was micro blogging, which teased people into content. That's really what it was good for, teasing people, having quick and snarky rebuttals and con... Really having good discussion back and forth. Now that's just not the case. TwitterX, though. So you're taking a well-known, global brand, and you're changing it for no fucking reason.

Chad Sowash: You can make these stupid changes under the Twitter name, but he wants to turn it into something entirely new and different. He's making a ton of changes, that we'll talk about here in a minute as we get into the recruiting side of the house, but I don't know if this is real. It's like him wanting to have a dick measuring contest inside the octagon with Zuckerberg. I don't know if... What comes out of this guy's mouth is actually real. You go to now, and it redirects to Twitter. I just don't know why you would spend those resources trying to push everything. None of this makes sense to me from a business standpoint. He's just losing money.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. It's funny, you said, "I didn't know if it's real." And so the first two that came to my mind, in my lifetime, as major brand screw ups. Number one, is new Coke.

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: New Coke was a disaster.

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: Coke was quick to turn around and say, "Okay, sorry. Let's go back to Coca-Cola Classic." By the way, Coke Classic does not taste the same as the original Coke, because we actually had cans of the old Coke, and they had classic, and I did taste-tests as a teenager. I'm like, "This is not the same. Something is going on." Anyway, so the conspiracy theorist in me said Coke had that planned all along, that they were gonna switch back to, maybe, a cheaper recipe and fool everybody, anyway.

Joel Cheesman: And then Netflix, when they were moving from direct-to-mail movie CDs or DVDs, went into streaming, they created a new brand called Quickster. I don't know if you remember this or not. But Quickster was a week-long thing. The Wall Street freaked out. People were like, "What the hell's going on?" And then they quickly said, "Just kidding. We're still Netflix." And now Netflix is known more for streaming now than actual mail DVD.

Joel Cheesman: So I kind of thought at first, "Oh, Elon's gonna go, "Okay, I'm sorry, I pissed off the community. We'll go back to Twitter."" But all signs point to this being a thing now. You have a multi-billion dollar brand that was built for free, at the footer of every major media company, every major company... Every site, almost, on the web, has a Twitter bird that links back to Twitter. To throw that away so, just in a cavalier fashion, just was weird. Clearly, Elon doesn't care. He's not listening to anybody. This is gonna go down as one of the biggest branding mistakes that you'll probably ever think of.

Joel Cheesman: Just like Netflix wasn't pigeonholed into mailing DVDs, Twitter isn't pigeonholed into always being a 140 character messaging thing back and forth. You can evolve this thing into whatever. This super app that he's talking about where there's payments, and... I guess, you can call an automated Tesla at some point. Or maybe get a trip to space with your phone... I don't know where this thing's going. But to make it X, there's stories about trademark issues, companies like Microsoft with Xbox. There's like X trademarks. So this is gonna be a real... This is gonna be another headache for him, legally.

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: They took the poor guy that had the X handle, and just said like, "Sorry dude, we're taking this over." So now X at Twitter is now X. It's the new company. Look, either he's gonna look like a total genius and crush this thing, or it's just gonna go down as one of the many stupid consumer electronic mistakes and sites that he's doing. Stick with cars, stick with spaceships, dude. It's just kind of sad to see this thing spiral down into trash.

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: It's sad.

Chad Sowash: But they're getting into recruiting, so it should... It's all good.

Joel Cheesman: Maybe they can turn it around with hiring. So let's go to recruitment now, Chad. Twitter's reportedly developing, "Twitter hiring", a job listings feature for verified organizations to post up to five listings visible on their profile. The service is expected to be free for verified organizations, offered alongside the $1,000 a month verified organization subscription. So it's not exactly quite free, but I guess it is in a roundabout way. Twitter's interest in jobs, jobs related offerings, was evident as they acquired the job matching startup Laskie, which we discovered or talked about, Chad, a few weeks ago. And Elon Musk expressed interest in the idea when they acquired Laskie. Chad, your thoughts on Twitter or X or whatever hiring?

Chad Sowash: Oh, okay. So we're gonna start out with a couple of quotes, so get get all this put into perspective. So this quote is from NDTV, "Advertiser spending dropped 89% to $7.6 million, over a two-month period earlier this year, according to estimates from market research firm Sensor Tower." Dropped 89%. Then the BBC reports, "Twitter has lost almost half of its advertising revenue, since it was bought by Elon Musk last October, in a statement by Musk."

Chad Sowash: Job postings won't heal Twitter's self-inflicted revenue wounds. It's just not going to happen. This is a gushing wound, and he's got a generic band-aid that they're trying to apply to it. Job postings on Twitter are already happening, and if you're following a company that you're interested in, you're probably already seeing jobs in your feed. They're probably 99% irrelevant, but jobs have been in the feed since back in the TweetMyJobs days. Five featured jobs? I mean, can you imagine a company with hundreds or thousands of jobs trying to manage the top five jobs on your profile? If you can only sponsor five jobs, I mean, because there's no clarity about this yet. If you can only sponsor five jobs at a time, that dramatically curbs the revenue opportunity. That makes no sense. Discovery.

Chad Sowash: How will Twitter drive relevant leads to real engagement? Well, the answer is, relevant job content. But Twitter has little to no understanding of user's work history, career pathing, or anything related to providing relevant job content to users. Now, I understand that Twitter purchased Laskie, a job matching platform. But without the data about me and my work history, none of that fucking matters, right? Again, you're just making shit up. You're going to have hallucinations all over the place. Employer branding. What brand wants to be involved in this shitshow other than maybe the MyPillow guy, right? So, very few. As demonstrated by advertising, marketing, and brand leaders pulling their cash out of Twitter. So this isn't bringing a knife to a gunfight. It's the equivalent of bringing a man with no arms and no legs to a gunfight.

Joel Cheesman: Tell us how you really feel, Chad. So this is really interesting, and this goes back in my mind... Reid Hoffman and Elon worked at PayPal together. So Elon's known about probably the idea of LinkedIn before it actually even launched. So I gotta think at the back of my mind, Elon has always thought about, "Hey, LinkedIn is a good business. It has no competition." And we talked last week about LinkedIn getting some competition. Is it in the form of Twitter? I don't know, but I gotta think Elon is thinking about that. The history, you touched on it, of jobs integrating with social media, is long, and it's a long list of trail of the dead. You might remember SimplyHired did a deal with MySpace, back in the day, to power jobs for them. SimplyHired was the backfill for LinkedIn for many years.

Joel Cheesman: You could see the LinkedIn jobs, and there was a second tab for SimplyHired that you could see that there. We both remember Google base, which was Google's first drop into that, quickly followed by Google+. There was no integration there. Facebook Jobs, we've talked about and they've done since we've launched this show. Jobs on Facebook are gone. So if Facebook can't make this shit work, do we really think that Twitter can make this work? It's doubtful. I feel like Elon's going to get bored. He's going to move on to other stuff, more exciting stuff. But I also appreciate that it's low-hanging fruit.

Joel Cheesman: If you can get 10,000 companies to be a verified company and be able to put jobs up, that's $120 million a year, no big deal. But that's not chump change either. There's got to be searchability. It looks like you can put your ATS or an XML feed into Twitter, and maybe you select the five jobs that are at the top, or maybe it's searchable. Again, we don't quite know what it's going to look like.

Joel Cheesman: Then I think the next step is, if you want to apply to jobs, or if you want to access jobs or more jobs, or if you want to put yourself out there to be hired, you will subscribe as a user to then put yourself out there. So now it's a position where all these job seekers that are on Twitter, just like on LinkedIn where it says, "I'm looking for work" or, "I'm open to work", now on Twitter, you'll be able to add that, "I'm open to work", as long as I'm paying the $8 a month to be on Twitter. So I think he's going to create this model of like, "Hey, if you pay subscription, you get all this stuff and we'll keep adding value." The golden goose, of course, is companies paying $1,000 a month to do this. I think a lot of companies will, just to see how it works. And if he adds value to that, then they'll keep doing it. But that said, this is a drop in the bucket of the kind of money he has to start making to make his $44 billion investment worthwhile.

Joel Cheesman: It's an easy... Like, easy layup in terms of getting some revenue. I'm not shaking in my boots if I'm LinkedIn, I'm not losing sleep if I'm Indeed. This is kind of a nice discussion point, but it'll probably be dead in a year.

Chad Sowash: He's literally submarining this business. And now he's coming up with all these different ideas that have no focus whatsoever, in trying to, again, put a cheap Band-Aid on a fucking gushing wound. He's had problems with brands. Any brand that has already started pulling revenue, advertising dollars, what do you think is going to happen if a company says, "Well, we're going to go ahead and sponsor for a $1,000 a month or what have you." Marketing finds out about it and says, "No. Fuck that. Optics wise, that's fucking stupid. Don't do that. We've pulled everything off of there in the first place for a reason." So yeah, I just think from an optics standpoint, from, you know, a business model standpoint, he is all over the place, all over the place. And in the X, the X marks the spot on the fucking problem. It is all fucked up.

Joel Cheesman: Not since rim jobs has X jobs been so interesting. More spaghetti at the wall from Mr. Musk.

Speaker 1: 60% of the time, it works every time.

Joel Cheesman: All right, let's go from Twitter or X to Google. This is from our friends at AIM, "Google Sponsored Job Ads or, what the kids are calling GSJA... That doesn't really roll off the tongue very well... Could roll out fully in Q3 of 2023, providing sponsored posts above Google for jobs results. Job boards may benefit initially, but need to adopt with SEO, SEM and budget allocation. Regulatory concerns might lead Google to proceed cautiously, especially in Europe. Industry insiders believe GSJA will attract high-quality candidates and create new advertising opportunities for recruiters. However, there are challenges in understanding user intent for general job searches. Overall, however, AIM thinks Google's entry into job advertising could reshape how employers reach qualified candidates." Chad, what are your thoughts on GSJA.

Chad Sowash: I think it's interesting and I'm going to hit with a different angle. I think Google's gonna do a damn good job, much better than we've seen in the past, especially around user experience. But remember, remember that Indeed is now playing ball with Google for jobs. So won't this just turn into another Indeed buying up more inventory like they did with Google PPC. Most niche job site players, they're not sophisticated enough to pull together great SEO, SEM. And now Google for job ads Indeed is, right. Agencies, this is where recruitment marketing firms should step in and fill the void, not just for their employer brands, but for niche job site players as well. It's low hanging fruit, especially in connecting user behavior with retargeting campaigns. That's what you will see from a lot of these job boards who want to really juice up their traffic.

Chad Sowash: Here's a big European, "Aha", moment. European job sites have held their ground amazingly against Indeed. Indeed doesn't have great penetration into most of their countries because their local brands stand strong. But what other brands stand strong? Google and Indeed could easily sway loyal locals their way through outspending European brands on Google. Indeed can hop in. And that is where a lot of the job searches is actually starting. So it's a, "trust by association", and Google could be Indeed's trojan horse into Europe. Now, beyond Europe, Indeed is only one site, right? And I've had, actually, discussions, and people have talked about, "Well, they're just one site and Google for Job wants... They want diversity." Well, here's diversity for you, kids.

Chad Sowash: There's another site called Glassdoor, and then another site called SimplyHired, which Indeed pretty much runs both of. Which means, also, the top three positions are theirs right out of the gate, if they have the spend, of course. So I see many layers happening here in a Trojan horse into Europe through Google, 'cause there's trust there. Also, you take a look beyond Europe, into just being able to take all of the inventory, which they did very well when they first started Search Engine marketing way back in the day. They had great SEO, great SEM and they just killed it. They could do that exact same strategy, starting with Google for jobs right out of the gate, and then start better penetration into Europe.

Joel Cheesman: You just said penetration.

Speaker 1: Just the tip.

Joel Cheesman: So I think both of us at some point, in our prediction shows, talked about Google, monetizing Google for jobs with a pay-per-click solution. So, I think you're taking credit for this year when they rolled it out, first to big players, ZipRecruiter and some of the others. It's a natural progression. Anyone who knows anything about Google and what they've done, saw this coming. Now they're gonna roll it out to the masses.

Joel Cheesman: Something about timing... Google's really good about timing. Like right when Indeed started fucking with their pay-per-whatever, Google started monetizing, rolling out pay-per-click. So it was like, "Oh, what great timing, both, for Google and what a fuck up timing it was for Indeed to mess with their pricing structure." So now you have Appcast acquiring Bayard, and now all the agencies are freaked out about where are we gonna put our spin in terms of distributing job postings.

Joel Cheesman: Well, what great timing, now Google's about to roll out their pay-per-click solution. So all these agencies are gonna easily be able to tell their clients, "Oh, Google has a solution now. We're gonna go put a lot of spend that we were putting in Appcast or everywhere else, into Google." And what employer's gonna say, "No, don't spend money on Google. That sounds like a big waste of money. I've never heard of them." As opposed to like a second-tier programmatic solution, Google looks like, "Oh, our agency is super smart. They're super on it." "Yes, I will vote for leaving Appcast or whatever we're using, and leveraging Google." Like every employer's gonna be on board with that. So now the agencies have perfect timing to be able to roll all their people, all these big companies into Google's pay-per-click.

Joel Cheesman: And all Google has to do is not fuck it up. Because if the spend works, if they get applies and they get the same kind of traffic that they were getting from Appcast or anywhere else, they're gonna be able to keep that spend. And it's eventually gonna trickle down to smaller companies. They'll be able to like, "Hey, post a job." "Hey, you want to boost this?" "You want to", like, "put some money toward that?" So smaller businesses will gravitate toward Google. I think this is a big win for Google. Who's not gonna pay for it? Everyone's gonna pay for it. Companies are gonna gonna get on board, agencies are gonna spend a bunch of money in it. And we hate SMBs, but I think SMBs are gonna slowly gravitate away from ZipRecruiter, Craigslist, whatever, and start posting their jobs directly onto Google. And they bring back hire for higher Google and they become... No, I'm kidding, they don't become an ATS again for all...

Joel Cheesman: But I think, it's a natural progression. It's gonna happen. What I've been waiting for a long time is, Google+ comes back. You have your resume, your profile on Google, and you can easily apply to these jobs. That's still, I think, gonna happen. But for now, we'll just have to accept the old-school, pay-per-click, set a budget and get traffic, that we've all known and loved Google for almost two decades now, doing. And now employers and agencies can embrace it.

Chad Sowash: Finally.

Joel Cheesman: Finally. Quick break and we'll talk about DEI going down. All right, Chad, the Wall Street Journal, one of your favorite publications, is reporting, "Demand for Chief Diversity Officers is on the decline after a surge in interest a few years ago. And these executives are facing higher turnover rates than their counterparts in human resources, this is according to Live Data Technologies. In addition, some diversity chiefs say that the Supreme Court's recent ruling against affirmative action in higher education, is bringing additional scrutiny to their efforts. Companies including Netflix, Disney and Discovery have recently said that high-profile diversity, equity, and inclusion executives will be leaving their jobs. And thousands of diversity focused workers have been laid off since last year. And some companies are scaling back racial justice commitments." Chad, I'm guessing you have an opinion on this and wanna share it.

Chad Sowash: Possibly. So let's break this down really quick, because this isn't just corporate America showing that they really never cared about diversity in the first place. That's only the start. Here in the US, recently, we've seen affirmative action killed in universities. And I predict that we will also see it challenged in the workplace. We're living in a time when states like Florida, are citing slavery as a benefit to some slaves, right?

Chad Sowash: In states like Arizona, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, Texas, and of course Florida, they have all launched anti-DEI initiatives. This isn't just a sign of corporate America showing that they've always believed that the Chief Diversity Officer position was just a charade. They were all playing for branding optics. No, it goes much, much deeper and demonstrates just how fucked up and devolved the American society is right now. I mean, we are so divided for the wrong reasons. And let's be clear, a long time ago, we started talking and using the word, "Tolerance", instead of, "Respect". We shouldn't tolerate, we should respect different races, genders, religions, choice of who people love and individual's healthcare choices. We should focus on respect. But corporate America, unfortunately in this case, is only one of the symptoms of the disease. And that is the hard part.

Joel Cheesman: So George Floyd was the spark that got this ball rolling. And you could look at Kaepernick, you could look at the Me Too as... There was a wave in America for a short period, that sparked this idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Everyone, certainly, we talked to on the show, everyone in our circles of employment, and just human being interactions, was that this was a good thing. This was a healing moment, if you will, in America. Unfortunately, it became politicized. It became a way for Fox News to get more watchers and listeners, and it became a way for CNN to do the same thing and MSNBC and whatever. And it sadly became this right-wing, left-wing argument about what is the point of this movement, and particularly, what is the point of having someone at your company that's getting paid to do this.

Joel Cheesman: There was an incident at Stanford recently, where their DEI head had an event, and they went into, either, another professor or a business guy. And so the media just grabbed onto this. And what followed from that was, shareholders, business owners. You saw companies and CEOs coming out saying that, "This isn't political. Like we're not here to state political beliefs. We're here to make money, we're here to make products, we're here to build services." So the volume around this is something that could be a healing moment, something that brings us together became, "Them vs. Us." Companies started saying, "We're out of the, "Them vs. Us" business. We're here to make products."

Joel Cheesman: They saw what happened to Disney. They saw what happened to other companies. The, "Go woke, go broke", trend became something that was popular. And my fear is that this is gonna exterminate, basically, the entire title of DEI leader, manager, et cetera. And we're gonna see this trend slowly fade away, sadly. And yeah, like you said, America is going backward. And I feel for the folks that were inspired by this movement, and saddened that it turned into a political fight that companies didn't want any part of. And letting go of their DEI, folks is a casualty of that. And there's just no other way to paint this, besides, unfortunate and sad, for America.

Chad Sowash: Corporate America, in this case, if they wanted to achieve pay equity, they would've done it already. And for anybody that says it's hard, fuck you. That's bullshit. We know better. There's technology out there, we know better, okay? They don't want to do it. And this is a great watershed moment in demonstrating, and it should to you, that they didn't give a fuck in the first place, right? Most of these CDOs didn't have staff, they didn't have budget. All they had was a position. And you know what that position was there to be? Was to be a Chief Diversity Officer, that everybody could point to and say, "Oh, look, we're doing our job." And they weren't. They never were.

Joel Cheesman: Now onto something a little lighter, Chad.

Chad Sowash: Please. Good God. Good God.


Joel Cheesman: Yeah, this is a little heavy for you, your first day back in America. So remember Jeff Taylor? Monster's Jeff Taylor's Eons? .

Chad Sowash: I can't forget him, dude. I cannot forget him.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, it's the social network/platform for the 50 and over crowd that launched back in 2006. Well, in case you forgot about it, Chad, or our listeners forgot about it, or you don't even know what the hell we're talking about, have a quick listen to a commercial from Eons, back in 2006.

[video playback]

Jeff Taylor: Hi, I am Jeff Taylor, and I'm proud to introduce Eons is all about you, but here's the twist: You need to be past your 50th birthday. From this moment with, you'll see more, you'll learn more, and you'll be more. is the place to go on the web for everything 50plus. I like to say, "Boom, boom, boom. Let's get started." I'm here at It's free, and there's tons to do. First off, it's fun, and it's huge. Find tons of games, brain builders, and movie reviews just for people your age and body. Take the longevity calculator, see how to add years to your life. Don't miss our exclusive products, created especially for you, from LifeDreams, where you can build your top 10 list of life goals, to cRANKy, the world's first age-relevant search engine.

Chad Sowash: CRANKy.


Jeff Taylor: Come see us at You're one click away from living the biggest life possible, and it's free. Be proud. Be inspired. Get it done. You know what's coming. Boom, boom, boom.

Joel Cheesman: Boom, boom, boom, baby. Was Jeff even 50 when he launched Eons? [laughter]

Chad Sowash: I don't think he was. No, I don't think he was. I think Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, Jane Seymour, was, who was the spokeswoman for this. But...

Joel Cheesman: Yeah, cRANKy...

Chad Sowash: Yeah.

Joel Cheesman: CRANKy was... It was like rank in large letters, and then the C and the Y were small at the end. So Chad, fast forward to today, and now a company called Peppermint, a New York City based "online clubhouse," [laughter] as I put in quotes... I guess that's what we're calling social networks now... For adults 55 and over. That's right, we've gone from 50, over now 55. Has secured $8 million in seed funding, led by Primetime Partners. The platform offers interactive workshops and clubs to promote engagement and learning. It plans to expand operations and collaborate with senior centers to foster connections. Chad, what's old is new again. What are your thoughts on Eons 2.0, aka Peppermint?

Chad Sowash: $8 million is a lot of money for a seed round, and it's a shit ton of money to throw straight into the fucking toilet. [laughter] Face it, nobody wants to feel old. And creating a social media platform for people 55plus, means the equivalent to an old folks home social media platform. I mean, it's really what it is. So now, if they're trying to get laid by someone your own age, then a dating site or dating app gives motivation to sign up. That makes sense. But anybody can create a group on Facebook and only give access to people who say they're 55plus. So selling an idea, purely, on total addressable market without really understanding human behavior, is a recipe for disaster. That's all there is to it.

Joel Cheesman: Yeah. Look, I get it. We're an aging population. 77 million baby boomers, 10,000 retiring every day. I get the allure of creating something just for the old folks.

Chad Sowash: The concept, yeah.

Joel Cheesman: The problem that was with Eons is still a problem today. Old people do not want to admit that they are old.

Chad Sowash: No.

Joel Cheesman: They wanna be on TikTok, if they can figure it out. They at least wanna be on Facebook and stuff that their kid's on. And maybe grandkids are doing Instagram. They wanna... They don't wanna be somewhere that the old people go to die. That's just... Like, my dad is 83. He's almost 84. He lives in a retirement community, and all he can talk about is how old everyone is at the retirement community. I'm like, "Dad, you're one of the fucking old people, dude. [laughter] I'm sorry, but Dad, you're 83." Mick Jagger is 80. He turned 80 this week. You think he's joining Peppermint? No.

Chad Sowash: No.

Joel Cheesman: He's Mick Jagger.

Chad Sowash: No.

Joel Cheesman: All these old people wanna be Mick Jagger. They still want it to be Woodstock, they still want it to be the '60s...

Chad Sowash: Exactly.

Joel Cheesman: And that's just the way that it is. And this thing, to get $8 million, [chuckle] is totally making a pile in the street and burning it, because this thing is not gonna take off. There's already dating sites like you mentioned. Yes, STDs are running rampant in these places because you got divorcees and widows all fucking each other. And I'm down with that. That's fine. But you don't need a site for it. And if you do, they already have OurTime or whatever. There's stuff out there. So these guys are behind the curve on that. And by the way, let's not even get into the issue of old people not really figuring out new tech anyway. My dad's phone hasn't been able to download an app for three years because he fucked something up. [laughter] That's sort of the demographic. It's like, let's launch something cool to people that don't get it anyway. And that's ageist, because I can be because I'm technically almost in the age group for this site. And I can tell you, I would never join this site.

Chad Sowash: No.

Joel Cheesman: Because I'm a podcaster, damn it, and podcasting is cool forever. Good luck, Peppermint.

Joel Cheesman: All right, Chad. The #FullTimeDaughter and #FullTimeSon trends are gaining popularity on Chinese social media, reflecting the rise of youth unemployment. Many adult children, unable to find jobs, are hired [chuckle] by their parents to do housework and do other companionship activities. Despite some criticism, some see it as a short term option until better opportunities arise. The increase in unemployment may exacerbate the phenomenon, impacting household incomes, and overall social consumption in China. Chad, full time daughter, full time son. Are you ready to take your kids back in, and make them a full time kid once again?

Chad Sowash: No. Let's get this straight. 4,000 subscribers in the full time daughter group or full time whatever it was group, in a country of 1.4 billion. So that pretty much makes this the upper crust are paying their kids while everyone else is still working, or trying to work, or a bunch of part-time jobs to actually make ends meet. So at the end of the day, it's unsustainable, because every country needs highly skilled workers. And unless mom and dad has a cybersecurity firm, it's a cute story, but more Kardashian than reality. I don't see this being sustainable. I think it's clickbait-ey and interesting for a very small few.

Speaker 1: Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Joel Cheesman: So in the early '90s, there was a show with Chris Elliott, who was on Schitt's Creek, one of your favorite shows.

Chad Sowash: Yes.

Joel Cheesman: And I forget the name of the show... But the gist of the show was, he was a 40 year-old man, still living with his parents. And the show was funny because it was so outrageous. Like it would never happen. 40 year-old, living with parents, and he acted like a kid; video games, ordering pizza. Like, he did immature stuff. Here we are, 20-30 years later, and this is becoming a norm. I read all about this stuff about kids staying at home longer. When I was in my early teenager, teen... I wanted nothing to do with my parents. I wanted to get as far away from my parents as possible. If I had to live in a box at the Walmart, [laughter] that was better than dealing with my parents at dinner. No offense to my parents.

Joel Cheesman: China has some real problems. 20% youth unemployment. There's some real social upheaval there, and it's weird. Maybe it's cultural, I don't know. But for Chinese adult's parents to pay their kids to just be kids... And you should google this story if you're listening. [laughter] Like, pictures of 25 year-old women that look like 13 year-old girls. It's like they wanna go back in time, the parents, and have kids that were young and do the things that when they were young, they don't wanna admit that they're old now. It's all just very bizarre. I don't really get it. They're paying them apparently 1150... 1115 US dollars per month, which is apparently the average salary in China.

Joel Cheesman: There was a quote from the story that said, "My job is to spend time with my parents, for example, taking them to grocery stores and do some household chores. Also, if my parents wanna go out, I would make plans in advance for them, taking them to the various locations." What kind of surreal, upside down world have we come into, that our assistants now are our kids that are taking us out to events? Anyway, this is crazy. Maybe we'll all get lucky, and Elon will move back into his mom and bring Twitter back for old time's sake, man. That's what we can hopefully hope for. Elon, move back into mom's house.

Chad Sowash: Boom, boom, boom.

Joel Cheesman: Boom, boom, boom. We out.

Chad Sowash: We out.

Joel Cheesman: Welcome back, Chad.

Music: Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

Outro: Wow, look at you. You made it through an entire episode of The Chad and Cheese Podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast-forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell, enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey, or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt. But save some soap, because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.


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