Take a deep breath people... The U.S. economy just posted its worst quarterly economic output on record so it's all rainbows and unicorns this week as the boys cover:
- Modern Hire buys Sonru... Son-who?
...and the Brits have one helluva sense of humor.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by
Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HRS most dangerous podcast. CHAD SOWASH and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Oh shit. The us economy just posted its worst quarterly economic output on record. So how's your week going? Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast, everybody. I'm your cohost Joel GDP Cheeseman and
I'm Chad Lafayette Sowash
...and on this week show Modern Hire does its best Pacman impression, LinkedIn tells Google to hold its beer and the Brits have a special take on what it means to mask up Cheerio, hip hip. And we'll be right back after we pay a few bills.
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Joel (1m 21s):
Basketball's back, baby.
Chad (1m 22s):
Yeah, but for how long?
Joel (1m 25s):
If it's anything like baseball four days. Yeah.
Chad (1m 31s):
What we'll do as humans, just to think we're we're back in normal. And that being said, we had a 1.4, three, I don't know where the three came from million file for unemployment. And then the GDP shrinks 32.9%. Now if, if, if we're not feeling it say, Hey, if you're not feeling it now, you know, get out of your ivory tower, open the curtains and check it out because people are, are having issues right now.
Chad (2m 3s):
And fucking unemployment is going to be running out.
Joel (2m 6s):
Thankfully yesterday was national chicken wing day and today is national corn dog chili day or our chili dog day. So, so I'm drowning my sorrow in bad food and calories.
Chad (2m 20s):
You do do whatever you can to keep away from the news cycle. That's all I got to say!
Joel (2m 26s):
I'm staying in my bubble. I'm in my bubble man. Bubble it. Stay in your white man bubble my suburb bubble shout outs.
Chad (2m 33s):
Shoutouts! That's right. Newest addition to the Brain Food Tribune. That's right. Kids, Steven O'Donnell and James Ellis.
Joel (2m 43s):
You have say it with a Scottish accent.
Chad (2m 46s):
Yeah. I can't, I ain't got one.
Joel (2m 47s):
Chad (2m 49s):
I'll fuck that all up. They, they have been entered into the Recruiting Brain Food Tribune section. So go to recruitingbrainfood.com. You can see the Tribune click on it. Some great stories. I have about 10 people in there now.
Joel (3m 5s):
Yeah. Explain what this is cause you've done it. So I assume, you know the reason of it and what's what's going on. So for those who don't know, Recruiting Brain Food Tribune.
Chad (3m 15s):
Yeah. So Hung Lee's a genius go figure. He wants to be able to really dig into the people that are in the industry. So that again, as a community, we know some things about others, maybe just from their Twitter feed or a little conversations that we've had here and there meeting them at events. But we really don't know the people. So he has different formats that he's put together. Elaine Valentine chose the hardest, I think, which is a letter to your 13 year old self.
Chad (3m 48s):
I picked one of the easier ones that I think James and Steven did as well, where we picked 20 questions and we answered those and Hung actually challenged us to talk more deeply about what some of these answers would be to some of the questions. So when you go to the, the Brain Food Tribune, you're going to be probably seeing a lot of faces that you already know, and maybe some faces that you don't, but you'll be able to get some real in depth information and just about those people themselves.
Chad (4m 22s):
And I thought it was a, I thought it was a genius idea. Overall. He's going to be adding I'm sure every week.
Joel (4m 28s):
Just want to, I just want to be on record to say that if you're involved in this, then calling him genius or this thing genius is, is under suspicion to say the least
Chad (4m 38s):
You're just mad because you haven't been included.
Joel (4m 40s):
Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm totally jealous. Shout out to Pine who raised 2.2 million this week. They're a corporate messaging solution founded by one of the dudes from Atlaseon who many, many people know from the Trello app popularized by this show to have Chad and I communicate with each other, but 2.2 million to take on Slack and Facebook at work. Good luck with that
Chad (5m 6s):
Seems like a Yammer. What happened to Yammer? It was bought and then nothing happened with it, right?
Joel (5m 11s):
Yeah. Microsoft kind of dropped the ball on Yammer, but yeah, the people who, who did it got pretty rich from it. It's still around. Believe it or not. Yeah.
Chad (5m 20s):
Yeah. No. And nobody uses it. I received James Ellis's book this week. You should be happy about this. The talent chooses.
Joel (5m 30s):
One other one I got left out of.
Chad (5m 32s):
So you were, you were in this one, you just, it was more toward the back. And I think you, you and Charney like shared a section or something, right?
Joel (5m 40s):
I didn't get a free copy. Let's put it that way. Thanks.
Chad (5m 43s):
It's cause he knows you don't read books.
Joel (5m 45s):
It's gotta be an audio book version, right. Or his, his annoying voice. Anyway, could you imagine him doing an audio book? That would be fucking hilarious.
Chad (5m 55s):
No, he has a podcast for that. Yeah.
Joel (5m 58s):
The ADD audio book by James Ellis. Shout Out to, to ZipRecruiter. Who's hiring. After laying off 30% of their people, they got ads all over the fucking place. Those laid off. Can't be too happy about it, but Hey, hiring again.
Chad (6m 14s):
Okay. So two things I think they, they definitely, they dropped 40% first and foremost, around 40%. That was a huge cut. Number one, number two, this was something that they should have done a long time ago. They were, they were in part, I believe, using COVID-19 to be able to, to do what they should have done. Right.
Chad (6m 36s):
They should have. Yeah, they should have
Joel (6m 38s):
Chad (6m 38s):
Yeah. They should have focused on being able to diversify and not just focus on SMB, just being in the SMB space and not seeing this coming obviously, but just being in the SMB space, not diversified, really fucked them. And now they're turning, as you can see with this job posting toward Enterprise, which is what they should have done a few years ago.
Joel (7m 1s):
Agreed, agreed. Shout out to Daniel O'Neill. Listeners will remember him as the Tik Tok guy who shout out to boomers said, Hey, why aren't more employers on Tik Tok anyway? He's left his, his old gig. And now he is the enterprise sales and agency partner manager at Resume Library. So Daniel shout out, man.
Chad (7m 25s):
Joel (7m 25s):
Good on you.
Chad (7m 26s):
Good job there, buddy. Last week we talked about a job case and the 30 million and the, the change of, of equity and all that other fun stuff that was happening.
Chad (7m 37s):
Yeah. And, and Fred actually reached out and said, Hey guys, would you like to talk about it? So we actually talked to Fred Goff, the CEO of Jobcase this week. Amazing dude. And we'll be putting that out next week.
Joel (7m 50s):
I think his exact words were, Hey, donkeys, let's get on the phone and I'll explain this to you. Something, something like that, something like that. Shout out to SMS. A they're having a good year. So far. It came out from info BIP research that messaging grew 8.5% from February to March and another 20% in April. So to all our friends out there doing the SMS text recruiting thing, our friends at Emissary Rec Text, Text Recruit Canvas Slash Jobvite, keep on, keeping on people are still using those things And that won't stop kids.
Chad (8m 30s):
Shout out to Lauren Saunders over at Circa in Brookfield, Wisconsin, Els Schafer, director of TA at FGF brands in Toronto, Canada and John Ambrosino, chief employment officer at Employing Us in Chicago. They all love the podcast and they connected with me on other socials this week. So appreciate you guys listening and thanks for the connect.
Joel (8m 28s):
Joe AM-bruh-CiNO is how I pronounce it to Ambra-CinO. A shout out to Facebook Reels, a actually fairly smart strategy here. The Wall Street Journal had a story. Reels is essentially the Facebook Tik Tok competitor. Facebook has decided that they're just gonna backup the Brinks truck and pay Tik Tok's, most influential accounts and get them to come over to reels and leave Tik Tok behind. I thought this is something Microsoft should have done 10, 15 years ago when they made their first smartphone, they should have paid off all the successful apps from the iPhone and Android to come over and exclusively developed for Microsoft. Whereas they might still have a phone, whereas now they don't. So I like the strategy. I don't know how you feel about it, but Hey, if you're going to make a competitor, write some checks and get the content over in your neighborhood.
Chad (9m 49s):
Yeah. I think most of those people are on Tik Tok because they hate Facebook. And if Facebook's name's on something, they might not come. But for the cash, who knows they might
Joel (10m 1s):
Money talks, baby.
Chad (10m 2s):
Yeah. I don't talk about money Circa last week, they had a great fucking week. You remember Circa used to be LJN Local Job Network, a very old and stale brand. They rebranded as Circa. So they refresh the brand. That was pretty awesome. We talked about it last week and then they did do what we said would happen. The acquisition of America's job exchange happened earlier this week and an endorsement from the NFLs first female coach, Katie Sowers.
Chad (10m 33s):
She's an offensive coach for that, for the Niners. Now this to me is really cool because we're talking about diversity. We're talking about inclusion and she is the first NFL coach. And to be able to get her as an endorsement with a brand refresh and an acquisition, I mean, they had a good fucking week.
Joel (10m 54s):
This was a cameo video, correct? That I saw. So you, so you pay actors and famous people and semi-famous people to say good things about you say happy birthday, et cetera. So Cammie or whatever cameo is paid by Circa to say nice things about the new launch.
Chad (11m 12s):
It's kind of like Michael Jordan drinking a Gatorade.
Joel (11m 15s):
Yeah. Kinda, although you pay $50 for this chick to do your ad, like they could have at least got James VanDerBeek or somebody to do a, to do a shout out for them. They could have spent a little money and got Troy Aikman to do a, to it, to do a shout out. But anyway,
Chad (11m 30s):
You really don't understand diversity. Do you? You really don't get diversity. Do you?
Joel (11m 36s):
And I get capitalism, baby. Okay. So I will say this, that, that Cameo seems to be like the marketing, the marketing device of choice for people now. So I'm starting to see these things pop up all over and it's probably a good, a good use of a couple hundred dollars to get someone that people know to about your product. Just to make sure it's someone of color or has a vagina. So Chad approves of it.
Chad (11m 58s):
So, so everybody understands Circa is a diversity network. Joel doesn't know what diversity means because he's balled up in the fucking fetal position in a white man fetal position. And doesn't understand what that actually means. So therefore guys, let me go ahead and help him out. First NFL, female, coach = diversity. There you go, kid. So a competitor of Circa came out and their response to this whole thing was eQUEST. Just get ready.
Chad (12m 29s):
We have something coming soon. It was like, that was the worst response.
Joel (12m 34s):
That was the week. That was the weakest flex in history. That was really weak.
Chad (12m 40s):
What the fuck are you doing out there eQUEST? Oh, Hey, we're doing cool stuff too. We're not going to tell you what it is and it might not happen.
Joel (12m 52s):
Yeah, that was a weak ass flex. All right. Last shout out for me goes to Herman Cain just came across the news wires this morning, former GOP candidate for president back in 2012. I believe former CEO of Godfather's pizza, died of coronavirus complications. So our, our heart,
Chad (13m 12s):
No fuck. He died. Oh, Holy shit.
Joel (13m 15s):
Yeah. Announced a this morning. So Thursday morning is when we record. So Herman Cain rip, baby, if you didn't know him or like him, you hopefully liked his pizza. Cause that shit was good.
Chad (13m 27s):
Well, and that being said, I mean it as my, my, my last shout out, but John Lewis, obviously there's no question. He is going to be missed big, ah, big inhale, big exhale, who not, not a way to go out a shout out. So let's go ahead and just ease into events shall we?
Joel (13m 47s):
Chad (13m 48s):
We have a summer to evolve happening with our friends at Jobvite, August 5th at 2:00 PM, I'll be joining Elaine Orler and Peter Claire to talk about how not to make onboarding suck because onboarding in most cases sucks guys. It's dehumanizing at times. And so we'll be talking about tech experience and how to be more human in the onboarding process. You can email@example.com, right?
Joel (14m 14s):
Automate that shit.
Chad (14m 18s):
Don't you have one of those coming?
Joel (14m 19s):
I do. It's after yours. So I have not, I, they haven't contacted me to coordinate that. Maybe they just forgot about it and I've been scratched from the sheet, but yes, I am doing one of those. It's it's something about content marketing for recruiting. So that'd be fun.
Chad (14m 37s):
Okay. Then August 27th, I'll be speaking in moderating a panel at Digital Recruitment Hackers event about optimizing recruitment for a remote workforce that connect to connect with me on LinkedIn, or follow me on Twitter for more info on how to register.
Joel (14m 58s):
Chad (14m 59s):
Yeah. Nice. Not too bad. And we're we're, we've dropped the first FeatureRama podcast with Andy Katz last Sunday. Got great response from that.
Chad (15m 8s):
Yeah. Andy, Andy actually said, you must have dropped the podcast cause cause people are emailing me and messaging me. It's about Nexxt talent community product. If you have a talent community, you should definitely be listening to this podcast. And then this Sunday, we're going to drop the next Featurama. We have three more to go.
Joel (15m 28s):
I see what you did there. You started with Nexxt. And then the next one that's right. I like that. I like that. <inaudible> Modern Hire our favorite rebrand from 2019. Yeah. You, you may remember acquires who modern hire from the acquisition of Montage and Shaker International. Not to be confused with Shaker Recruitment Marketing. So this happened late last year, rebranded went to HR tech made a big deal. So they've made an acquisition of what I would call sort of a VRBO competitor.
Joel (16m 1s):
I won't say want to be, cause they've been around a lot longer than VRBO, but they acquired a company called Sonru. I assume I'm saying that correctly out of Ireland who does sort of automated video interviews. So they'll, pre-screen do all that good stuff. Interestingly, they've been around since 2009. So I don't even know if they've started doing, you know, automated video or they just sort of pivoted into that. At some point they, they only raised like $339,000
Chad (16m 29s):
and that was in 2010.
Joel (16m 31s):
Yeah. So they've just, I guess, been chugging organically. You and I kind of questioned why would they sell? Maybe they just got tired of running the business after 11 years. I don't know, but yeah, good on them. I hope they hope they got paid and Modern Hire gets into the automated video interviewing game, which is sort of interesting.
Chad (16m 54s):
They were already in that game. The thing is that this is more of an, a Mia and APAC expansion or at least that's what they're saying. If you take a look at, when you look at Australia, that Australia makes up most of their web traffic on similar web on Sonru, meaning that that's obviously where their, their customers and candidates are accessing the system. The thing is, I don't see anything Asia in those traffic numbers, the UK is their second most trafficked.
Chad (17m 25s):
And it is in single digits followed by France, New Zealand and Ireland. So I'm not feeling their Asia vibes, I'm feeling the Aussie vibes obviously. But yeah, I think this might be a scenario where it's like optics for more, more than anything, maybe picking up, picking up some portfolio. I mean, there, they had over 50 employees and I think six or seven different locations Sonru did. And a modern hire is like in Cleveland, in Deerfield, Wisconsin.
Joel (17m 59s):
Beautiful locations, by the way, beautiful locations. Yeah. They really, really played up the, the global expansion angle on this one. The only quote from the press release from Brian Stern, president of modern hire was quote, the combination with Sonru was compelling due to our tremendous alignment and culture and values and sunrise success in the E M E A and APAC regions. This will increase our InMarket market presence in major growth geographies and enable us to better anticipate the changing needs of our global buyers. So they really played up the global reach of this acquisition.
Chad (18m 32s):
Again, Sonru. Why sell now when remote is so big and video interviewing and remote interviewing is so big. I mean, this is, this is when they should really be pressing the pedal to the metal. And then the question back to, you know, Modern Hire, why, why acquire now you have what you have in the biggest market in the world. To me, it doesn't make sense. I'm glad they did it. Good for you guys. That's awesome.
Chad (19m 2s):
But to me it doesn't make sense. You double down, especially right now in the biggest markets, you kick the shit out of everybody else here where the money is. And I mean, I would think that Sonru would want a bigger price right now because there's much more of a need. I just, to me again, it's just, it's kind of weird.
Joel (19m 20s):
Yeah, It is tough. But you mentioned Fred Goff in our shout outs and you know, Fred talked a lot about how the M and a market is heating up. And the number of calls that he's getting, you know, for acquisition and partnering and whatnot is, is, is scaling up for sure. We are still in a global pandemic. People aren't hiring layoffs are still happening. So if you're a smaller company with a lot of, not a lot of money, good money could have run out. I mean, this could have been a, a fire sale. I don't know Jack about Sonru I can't say, but, but we are, we aren't, we are in strange times.
Joel (19m 53s):
So it's not, it's not crazy to think that, you know, Hey, financially the pandemic, the bad, bad timing, like we need to, we need to get out of this. And a Modern Hire was a logical buyer. Right.
Chad (20m 5s):
And I tell you, the funding is stack overflowing.
Joel (20m 12s):
Pretty good, man. I like that dude. You are on with the zingers man. Yeah. What happened to stack overflow? They raised a little cash, apparently.
Chad (20m 22s):
Yeah. 85 million in series E 153 million in total funding, which is reported by Crunchbase. Stack Overflow for teams, which is really what they're pushing now. A knowledge management platform that allows developers to collaborate with one another with, with other departments or within your department, or obviously with other departments, it's really been interesting because they're going to use this, this money to broaden into new markets. Now, when we spoke with Hacker Ranks, CEO, Vivek they're heavy, have HackerRank is heavy in India.
Chad (20m 60s):
I remember Vivek actually saying in our interview that we have plenty of tech talent. Because we were kind of pushing him, you know, Hey, tech talent is short and he's like, no, it's not, it's not short. Not if we look at this in a global way. In India, we have plenty to be able to fill the gaps that we have here. I'm wondering with stack overflow, the kind of broadening what that actually, what that actually means. They're not like a Hacker Rank to an extent they're more of kind of like a Help Index type of a system.
Chad (21m 35s):
But I mean, I don't know how that works and if they're really just pressing the teams module, because that's really where they're seeing revenu.
Joel (21m 41s):
Yeah. I think, I think all that is opportunity stack overflow also has a job board component to it. So, you know, I have to think that part of the money is going to be used to sort of build out geographical footprints in terms of a hiring angle. And you mentioned HackerRank, we talked to a human predictions, founder Elliott, his last name escapes me, but he, he talked about,
Joel (22m 6s):
yeah, he talked about how, you know, the hiring and engineering and software and everything else, everyone else that got furloughed from that period is all hired back. So when you look at like where's hiring, going to still happening and happened sooner rather than later, right. And only get hotter. I mean, the, the tech hiring is where all that stuff is. So I got to think this is going to be a multipronged approach in terms of where they're going to spend that money, but they'd be stupid not to build out some of the employment, the employment features of the site.
Chad (22m 36s):
I think this segment is really missing an opportunity still here in the U S. I think that that corporate America is still going to want local talents, maybe not a hundred percent, but they're still going to want the lion's share of that to be the local talent. Those organizations really need to tap into and start manufacturing talent pipelines. I mean, these are the perfect types of organizations who could turn a huge void into a huge opportunity, especially in the diverse segments.
Chad (23m 11s):
When companies are looking for diverse developers, any type of, of tech talent whatsoever, they could be doing that instead of trying to go out there and find the same person over and over and over. So it is interesting. Broadening might be the key, but I really think we need to look a little bit more local for many of these issues.
Joel (23m 34s):
Agreed. Well, let's take a break and we'll talk about, we'll talk about LinkedIn, wanting to compete a little bit with Google.
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Jobvite (24m 13s):
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Chad (24m 42s):
Go learn something. People go learn something, float your boat, float your boat, learn something. Summertoevolve.com.
Joel (24m 50s):
So, so they've been fairly quiet in this pandemic, but Google's hot. You know, Google's March unemployment still continues and you and I have always been big fans of their search API. We did an interview with Steven Rothberg some months ago about how, how it's positively impacted his business. And we kind of wondered like, well, Google kind of owns the game and you could certainly have that perception, but I for one was, was sort of happy, pleasantly surprised and, and sort of happy that Google is going to get a little bit of competition on this side of the house.
Joel (25m 29s):
Announced this week by LinkedIn via their, their corporate blog. They're going to open source D text, which is their deep text learning framework for the NLP or natural language processing tasks. So basically LinkedIn said it is made it's detect D text or deep text, natural language processes technology available in open source. One of Dtext features is how it allows AI. Researchers use multiple NLP models, train on their own specific language data to power different tasks via one system.
Joel (26m 3s):
So in plain speak the same technology that LinkedIn is is using for its sort of job search it's people search it's recommended searches. You can now start looking at an open source and potentially plugging into your apps and sites.
Chad (26m 20s):
So in using LinkedIn myself, I'm always perplexed on why their search sucks so bad. So they're actually saying that they're going to use this same search that I use all the time and, and that they're going to open source it. And I'm I, so why it's like, I can get shitty search anywhere and you can say it's deep learning, but if it's not giving me what I'm actually looking for, if it's not, if it's not recommending per se, then I, I don't care.
Chad (26m 52s):
Joel (26m 53s):
Chad (26m 53s):
Just, just from my usage of the platform itself, I think it sucks. So this to me, this is a, so what now I do like the competition model and we also have to remember that the AI and deep learning process doesn't happen overnight. This isn't overnight. Obviously they've been doing it for a while, so I don't want to give them a pass when they're coming out saying that they're going to make this open source. Because again, I wouldn't want to use that code.
Joel (27m 23s):
Fair enough. But I do think it has a long way to go, I think, know, open sourcing this stuff. They're going to learn a lot from, from developers that are building on top of the code. I still think Microsoft is a formidable opponent to anything that Google or Amazon or anyone else is doing. So for me, this is simply a step in the right direction. And I like to see LinkedIn sort of slowly open up things that it's doing because they've been such a closed system for so long. So we'll see.
Joel (27m 54s):
But to me, it's a, it's a positive first step in, you know, in the ecosystem.