'Job Board Summer Camp' Sucks

July 19, 2019

It's been a week since tearin' shit up in London, and the boys are psyched to get back to the weekly round-up show. And the hits just keep on rollin'.

-- Appcast, ClickIQ, Perengo and GermanPersonnel!?! WTF?

-- Microsoft's LinkedIn bet is paying off

-- Chatbots MUST disclose in CA

-- Amazon is on strike or wait... no strike?

and summer camps in London and Barcelona have taken a turn for the worst.

 

Without Sovren, Canvas and JobAdx this jawn wouldn't be happenin' so give them your undivided attention.

 

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by

Disability Solutions helps companies find talent in the largest minority community in the world – people with disabilities.

 

Announcer:        Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

 

Joel:                       It's so hot. Damn it's hot in the Mid-West right now.

 

Chad:                    It's so hot.

 

Joel:                       It's about to get hotter when we burn up these microphones with podcasting brilliance. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese Podcast everyone, I'm your cohost Joel Cheesman.

 

Chad:                    And I'm Chad Sowash.

 

Joel:                       On this week's episode, there's some serious Pac Man fever in the programmatic advertising space, kids in Europe can now go to the worst summer camp in human history, and we debate who's nuttier, the Swedes or Elon Musk.

 

Chad:                    Turn your fan to high and grab a cold one, the show starts right after this word from our sponsor, Canvas.

 

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Chad:                    So Amber from Canvas, was supposed to come get a T-shirt. She's been giving me hell on Twitter about getting a T-shirt, we had a box full of them, and she never came and got one.

 

Joel:                       She had to be called away, I believe. I don't know if it was her fault, but yeah.

 

Chad:                    It was totally her fault.

 

Joel:                       For as long as it took me to get a Goddamn cuzi, yeah. She can lose out on the shirt. Dude, I've never been so excited to get to the end of the show, as I have at the beginning of this show. Our wrap up of just ridiculous stories is unprecedented, I think, in the history of our show.

 

Chad:                    It is pretty fucking funny. Let's go ahead and hit shout outs then.

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    Let's do this. All right so first shout out to Tom, who's the head of product over at Appcast, he loved that we would take Appcast over Glassdoor all fucking day. Easy decision Tom. And then Matt Lozar said that, he liked the Appcast all fucking day comment, and we should put that on a T-shirt. So I'm thinking we might be able to kind of have this Appcast logo on the back, Chad Cheese on the front, and then it just says Appcast all fucking day. I love it.

 

Chad:                    Yo, that' John is so lame.

 

Joel:                       I love it too. Can we still give shout outs to RecFest, I know that it's been a week or so, but I think we're still partying on the inside from our time in London. Jamie and company did-

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       ... a great job, we loved our time there in London, and look forward to future RecFests as well as a potential global domination plan.

 

Chad:                    You never know, right? You never know.

 

Chad:                    I came home to some SmashFly goodies. Had some caramel corn, had some... this crazy tea device, I don't drink tea, but Julie loves it. And then go figure, Jay Z sends us chocolate balls, chocolate salty balls. Chocolate covered Bourbon balls, so good stuff. And a bunch of other stuff, but I just had to call this out.

 

Joel:                       So the best of both worlds.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, why not.

 

Joel:                       Bourbon balls, that's nice. That's nice Jay Z. The good news is, we both received our box of goodies at the same time. Usually, one of us gets screwed over, or one of us has to wait. So they were good with the timing on this one, that was nice of them.

 

Joel:                       A shout out to the boys at Talent Nexus.

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       Man we've talked a lot about the cameras following us around, but hype videos, a little documentary. Can't wait for that stuff to come out. If you want to sign up for the download of the, I don't know, Chad and Cheese movie,-

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       ... or whatever we're calling it, head on over to chadcheese.com, click the link and put in your name, and you'll get the copy.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. Or, go to talentnexus.com/chadcheese. Too damn easy, right?

 

Joel:                       Yeah, yeah.

 

Chad:                    Also-

 

Joel:                       Run with Talent Nexus anyway, they're good folks.

 

Chad:                    Really awesome that Gem had us over, and Rob Prince showed us around for two solid days. From pub to pub in most cases, but thanks guys, really appreciate the hospitality. That was amazing.

 

Joel:                       And Rob is what, 27? I'm sure the last thing he wanted to do was escort around two old white dudes in London. Yeah, that's nice.

 

Chad:                    Dude, we were going from pub to pub. I don't think he had an issue.

 

Joel:                       Yeah, yeah. It was a pretty good time.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       It's hard not to have a good time there in jolly old London.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. And that being said, Lisa Scales wins the free beer for a year from Talent Nexus.

 

Joel:                       Did she pick beer? Did she officially pick beer?

 

Chad:                    I think she's officially picked beer, but-

 

Joel:                       Good for you, Lisa.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. So looked at Twitter, and it was funny because she didn't even take a picture of herself in the Chad Cheese mask. She actually took a picture of three other people who were posing, and that was incredibly smart for her, because it was more a group participation. And guess who, the group overall doesn't get the beer, Lisa gets the beer.

 

Joel:                       Hopefully she'll share a few bottles with those guys who are in the picture.

 

Chad:                    Don't do it.

 

Joel:                       Speaking of also staying in London, shout out to Kylie Roco, I believe I'm saying that last name correctly.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       So this was great. You and I go on stage, and she Tweets out, "It's time for..." What was your nickname?

 

Chad:                    Stone Cold Steve Austin and Jonah Hill giving out-

 

Joel:                       And Jonah Hill.

 

Chad:                    ... giving out shots in the main... It was like she was telling everybody. She took a picture and then she said, "Stone Cold Steve Austen and Jonah Hill giving out shots in the main tank." Kind of letting everybody know, hey there's hard liquor coming, come get it.

 

Joel:                       I'm sorry, I don't... Jonah Hill just doesn't do it for me. So anyway, I Tweeted back to her and I said, "Jonah Hill, come on. Seth Rogen, I've heard that one before, and I can sort of deal with Seth Rogen. At least he gets the cute girls in the movies." And she replied back, "Oh yes, I met Seth Rogen, Jonah Hill was just the first name that came to mind." I don't know if she was just trying to make me feel better,-

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       ... or if that was the truth, but either way, she gets a shout out.

 

Chad:                    Oh, yeah. She was just being nice. So more shout outs for goodies. AIA Worldwide, which is TMP's European branch, I guess you could say.

 

Joel:                       No doubt.

 

Chad:                    They took us to dinner, gave us beer, coffee, chocolates. And here's the biggest thing, I said in the last podcast, I had a great conversation with Richard Collins at ClickIQ about how they should be gobbled up, and then the next day they were and he's like... So he didn't spill the beans, but the night before we were having dinner with pretty much TMP and they didn't spill the beans on the acquisition of Perengo. So I have to say the discipline I respect, but have you... can you not say, "Hey, this is off the record?" I mean, come on people.

 

Joel:                       It clearly means we need to get drunker with people then we already are, so the truth serum starts flowing.

 

Joel:                       Shout out to Doug Monroe,-

 

Chad:                    Oh yeah.

 

Joel:                       ... Indeed user who shared on LinkedIn this week. This guy's the co-founder of Adzuna, by the way.

 

Chad:                    Okay.

 

Joel:                       So not some scrub at some company. So he shared, "Tried to unsubscribe from an Indeed e-mail, spoiled for the choice." The choices he got to opt out of an e-mail from Indeed are number one, only send me e-mails that I've asked for, or number two, send me marketing communications and e-mails that I've asked for.

 

Chad:                    It's the non-

 

Joel:                       So either way-

 

Chad:                    ... opt out.

 

Joel:                       ... it sounds like you're still getting e-mails from Indeed.

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       You just get to kind to pick your poison of how.

 

Chad:                    That's not an opt-out. Yeah, that's not an opt-out, that's not what that is called, because there is no opting out. You're just choosing what you're opting for.

 

Joel:                       Opt out, no opt out. Opt in, opt out.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    That's a fucked up opt out.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, so are you ready to go to events?

 

Joel:                       Yeah, let's do events.

 

Chad:                    Okay. So events, September 24, 25th TA Tech North America in Austin.

 

Joel:                       It'll be hot.

 

Chad:                    We're going to be doing a death match. Everybody loves a death match man. We just finished one in Portugal, going to do one in September in Austen, and fucking awesome dude.

 

Joel:                       So everyone might be the charm. I mean, one and two were pretty epic, but three might be the... I'm trying to... What movies was the third installment the best? Toy Story?

 

Chad:                    Rocky.

 

Joel:                       Ivan Drago, or was that Mr. T?

 

Chad:                    That was Mr. T as Clever Lang.

 

Joel:                       What's your prediction for the fight?

 

Chad:                    Pain.

 

Joel:                       Great movie. All right, Rocky Three you're going to pick.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       I'm going to go with Toy Story Three as my favorite. I've not seen the fourth one though.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, you can tell you have a tear.

 

Joel:                       I kind of teared up when I watched Toy Story Three.

 

Chad:                    You always tear up. So October 1st through the 4th, Jobcase is actually sending us to HR Tech in Vegas.

 

Joel:                       Who you will remember by the way, pretty much banned us from the show last year. This year they were open arms, come do some shit, do the show, it's going to be awesome.

 

Chad:                    Two days. Dude, we're doing two separate days in the expo hall-

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    ... doing or spiel. So they also have a discount code, CHADCHEESE, one word. It's like 300 bucks off, go check it out, and you're welcome.

 

Joel:                       $300, damn. Go ahead. You could lose that real fast in Vegas.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, yeah. So October 22nd and 23rd, SmashFly, our friends over there who give us goodies, are sending us to unleash Paris. Again, we're going to be on the expo hall doing our thing there, which I like. Being among the people, people are there, at Chad Cheese, it's epic.

 

Joel:                       Love Paris, especially I've never been in October. It's going to be lovely.

 

Chad:                    Oh yeah.

 

Joel:                       It's going to be beautiful.

 

Chad:                    It's going to be great. So at that point you would think that rounds up pretty much our world tour, but we actually have four new editions. So if you haven't checked out the Chad Cheese world tour list, go to chadcheese.com, click on events in the upper right corner, we're adding Sweden. We're going to TNG, Tengai live, so we're going to do a live pod from there.

 

Tengai:                 Hi, this is Tengai, the unbiased interview robot.

 

Chad:                    And Tengai actually spun off into its own company. So that's also big news.

 

Joel:                       Remember the old James Brown shows where he'd act like he was too tired to go on,-

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       ... and he would start exiting the stage, and then he'd throw off the cape and do more shows? That's what we are.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, exactly.

 

Joel:                       We're the James Brown of the podcast tour business, which I think is just us doing it. So there's not a lot of competition, but we are the James Brown of our industry. Thank you very much.

 

Chad:                    And in September, Recruit a nation live in San Francisco at the JobVite's show. Then we're going to iCIMS's Influence in November in Scottsdale, Talent Net in December in Dallas. I mean, when you looked at our original lineup, it was like, "Fuck man, that is pretty aggressive," and then add four more shows onto that.

 

Joel:                       That's what my wife said, not you. By the way guys, Chad's trying to get me to do Yoga at the ISAM show in Scottsdale. I'm not real sure about that.

 

Chad:                    I think that is... We're going to have a camera crew there while we do it.

 

Joel:                       Yeah. #noyogayoga #chadcheese, if you think I should do yoga.

 

Chad:                    Let's do the show.

 

Joel:                       Let us do it. Dude, I need to start a fucking programmatic advertising solution, because they're getting bought up like hot cakes right now.

 

Chad:                    Too late. The arms race goes on, and we didn't know, but a little company called Compana was actually bought up by the Riverside company who owns German Personnel, which is a programmatic company, and they've-

 

Joel:                       Compana.

 

Chad:                    ... combined... Yeah, so-

 

Joel:                       Bless you.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. So it seems like there's some acquisitions happening across the pond. Those are German companies I believe, overall. Before we get to the main course, which are ones that we all know, Step Stone obviously bought Appcast.

 

Joel:                       Yeah, it's a blitzkrieg.

 

Chad:                    It's freaking... I mean, it's crazy.

 

Joel:                       The Germans.

 

Chad:                    Then after smacking Indeed square in the face, Indeed comes back and says, "Aha, we're going to buy ClickIQ," Richard Collins and the group, and then we land in the US and the very next fucking day, TMP buys Perengo.

 

Joel:                       Four deals in 45 days I think, if our math is correct-

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       ... and it's still heating up. So whose next, whose going to be bought up next? And we commented recently that Joveo has been really quiet lately.

 

Chad:                    They have been quiet. It's either bad that they've been quiet, because nobody's over there, or somebody should check for a pulse, or maybe somethings happening. Who knows? I know that obviously the Recruitics team, it's interesting, did they go the wrong direction in becoming an agency instead of focusing on analytics and programmatic?

 

Joel:                       That is a question for another show maybe.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, we might have to have that as a segment all to itself.

 

Joel:                       Maybe-

 

Chad:                    I think-

 

Joel:                       Maybe they're just on the phone all day fielding offers, eBay style, and just waiting for the clock to run out.

 

Chad:                    We'll figure it out. I think the biggest question right now for these three, TMP, Step Stone / Appcast and Indeed with ClickIQ is, do they play together nicely, or do the walled gardens start to appear?

 

Joel:                       The walled gardens have to start to appear?

 

Chad:                    Where first?

 

Joel:                       The algo's favoring their properties, as it's going to happen. You won't be able to prove it, there won't be any transparency, but it's going to happen. When staffing companies buy job boards, and job boards... All these companies are going to favor their own properties, that's just the way it works.

 

Chad:                    That's smoke and mirrors, right?

 

Joel:                       I give a good amount of credit to Appcast that they'll probably hold out the algorithm the longest, but ultimately... You don't think TMP's going to act in TMP's best interest?

 

Chad:                    Well, I personally believe that TMP, I don't know this for sure, but I believe TMP is going to swat everybody else away, and Perengo is their product, right?

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    So they're going to integrate that with Talent Brew, and off you go. So if a client comes to them and they're using Appcast, which to be quite frank, most of these direct employer types of companies, are coming to agencies so that the agencies can do their shit, not so that they can take over their vendor relationship, right?

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    So from that standpoint, it's like, "Oh, you don't have to worry about it, we have all of your different job site destinations taken care of with our programmatic offering through Talent Brew, right?

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    So, I think that's an easy one to understand from my standpoint. The big question for me is, does Indeed pull their content out of all the other programmatic platforms, just to have it in ClickIQ?

 

Joel:                       That would depend on how much revenue I guess they'd have to lose over it in the short term. In the long term, if ClickIQ becomes the number one programmatic solution because they're the only one with Indeed, well, that becomes kind of good for Indeed and ClickIQ.

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       And kind of fucks everybody else.

 

Chad:                    Well, and what is Indeed good at doing?

 

Joel:                       Fucking everybody else?

 

Chad:                    Exactly right. I mean, right now ClickIQ-

 

Joel:                       Boom chicka bow wow.

 

Chad:                    ... Appcast is really the infrastructure for the agency game here in the US, and abroad for many cases, so they are really the lion's share of how that works from an infrastructure standpoint. So let's say tomorrow through Appcast, you can no longer get any type of traffic or clicks from Indeed, because Indeed just threw up that walled garden?

 

Joel:                       Oh.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. So I mean that's the... We've seen them do this shit with... obviously with job boards, with staffing companies, sometimes with big fortune brands. So they're saying, "I'm sorry, you're not meeting the quality that we're looking for." Which means you're not getting any free traffic, you're going to just have to pay for your traffic. So this is... It seems like it's the Indeed playbook, but it's going to go in more of a programmatic scale.

 

Joel:                       Yeah, and they better do it soon while they're still relevant.

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       Because 10 years from now, no-one will care.

 

Chad:                    Five.

 

Joel:                       Oh, okay, go five. I was being generous.

 

Chad:                    That was nice of you.

 

Joel:                       The heat, the heat man. The heat. All right, programmatic stays hot, and I'm sure we'll have more stories in the weeks to come.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       Another company that's still on fire is LinkedIn.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       Seeking Alpha is one of my go-to's for anything like public company and business story related, and they have a story out this week. Microsoft, LinkedIn bet is paying off better than expected. So a guy wrote an article... LinkedIn is just killing, and you give me shit about drinking the cool aid, but the numbers don't lie, and where LinkedIn is going, is pretty impressive. So the article somehow is from LinkedIn standalone revenue within Microsoft, is close to being $10 billion by 2022, which makes that investment pay off pretty quickly at that rate. You just look at the numbers going down. 630 million members, they're one of the few social networks that's actually worldwide. They're still in China. 70% of LinkedIn users are from outside the US, so you look at global growth, it's impressive. Over 30 million companies using it to post 20 million job openings.

 

Joel:                       90 million of LinkedIn users are senior level people. 63 million are decision makers in their positions. Three million NBA graduates. It goes on and on from a member's perspective, from a revenue perspective. Once GDPR kicks in and all that, all the privacy laws, LinkedIn is going to be in the cat-bird seat. They're covering solutions for hiring, marketing, selling, education. I mean, they're just crushing it dude. I don't know why you're such a hater on LinkedIn.

 

Chad:                    I think what they do now, which is really being able to monetize the data and the content that they have, I've never been a hater on that, it's what they can do next outside of that, right? So being able to add an applicant tracking system, and all these new perspective platforms that can plug into it. I just... I'm not seeing that. What they do better than anybody, obviously, is monetize the types of data that they have. Now Facebook does a pretty good job, and they even have a bigger reach, the thing is, they haven't been able to figure out, or maybe just they aren't spending enough time, or really care to understand this industry.

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    But I believe if they had focus, and they had priority in this segment, they would kick ass and take names. The big question is, will that ever happen?

 

Joel:                       Yeah, ultimately, Google and Facebook are probably the only ones who can give LinkedIn / Microsoft real competition. If I'm anyone in the ATS space or below, I'm going to carve a niche out, but I'm not going to be something that LinkedIn is doing now.

 

Chad:                    So they say they have anywhere from 610 to 630 million profile users, whatever, in the system, which is awesome. The big question is, what about an organization like Jobcase? They are US centric, but the thing is, they are appealing to the 70% that LinkedIn is not, and what could an organization do if, I don't know, maybe they acquired a Jobcase?

 

Joel:                       Yeah. And I think it's really early to put Jobcase in the same position.

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       I mean, acquisition obviously changes things overnight. I mean, we were talking about when LinkedIn was acquired by Microsoft, that Microsoft was going to fuck it up like Yammer or any of the other acquisitions that happened business wise-

 

Chad:                    But they left it alone.

 

Joel:                       Yeah. I mean, they put resources into it. They integrated into Microsoft 365, and put AI resources. I mean, clearly Microsoft is... The care and feeling for LinkedIn is real, they're serious about building the business and integrating it into Microsoft. I think more AI tools are coming to LinkedIn. The growth both by professionals, they are ahead by a country mile in terms of professionals on the platform using it on a regular basis. And you also look at the Facebook privacy issues, LinkedIn for better or worse, hasn't had those issues and maybe they won't. And I'm not saying that LinkedIn will become the next Facebook, I don't think that's what they want to be. And they won't be the next TiK ToK. But anyway, I just think they're in a great position, and they're on cruise control.

 

Chad:                    So this week, it was hilarious, because I've started to notice some very scantily clad pictures of females on LinkedIn. And my question is, when did cat fishing start on LinkedIn? Because I received... While I was in London, I had a ton of LinkedIn invites, and I was going through and I was, "Okay, good enough," and I was really being lazy to be quite frank. I was pretty much accepting them all, and then I get a message from one... their name was, Loving Franca. And it was a picture of a very voluptuous female showing a lot of cleavage, and her question was, "I would like to start a relationship." I'm like, block.

 

Joel:                       So in Loving's defense, you did connect with her, or him, or whatever was on the other side of that.

 

Chad:                    Whatever, yeah, yeah.

 

Joel:                       And then instantly got, "I want to build a relationship?'

 

Chad:                    It was pretty instantaneous.

 

Joel:                       I would have like to see where that had gone if you had said, "Yes." What would have happened? Would they have asked you for money? Would they have asked you to give them your contact information? Anyway, we won't know because you said goodbye for obvious reasons. But I think if you talk to the old timers that have been using LinkedIn for 20 years, LinkedIn's not that quite old, let's say 15 years, that they would tell you that this shit's been going on for a long time. I think that it's becoming more as LinkedIn grows, and as Facebook gets a little bit stricter and maybe more conscientious about real versus fake profiles, and Twitter's been a mess for a long time. But no-one uses Twitter like they used to anymore.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       Yeah, I think it's been going on a long time now. Whether or not it's been on hyper drive because of what's going on at Facebook and others, I don't know. But cat fishing and trying to get you to connect with a sexy young thing, even though it's probably a 65-year-old male on the other end managing it-

 

Chad:                    In Russia.

 

Joel:                       Yeah, in Russia, yeah, that's been going on for a long time.

 

Chad:                    On LinkedIn?

 

Joel:                       There are people, by the way, that connect with you and immediately sell you shit.

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       Does that work for people?

 

Chad:                    I don't know.

 

Joel:                       That can't work.

 

Chad:                    I don't know. I just know that if you come straight to me after I just... I mean, the first interaction is, I want to try to sell you something, I automatically block you. Because that's the dumbest shit to be able to just cold right into it, and think that, that's what this platform is used for.

 

Joel:                       And more and more I connect with people based on who they're connect with, that I trust.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       I like to put out a public service message to say, "Look, let's be more selective with our LinkedIn connections, because we're all sort of connecting because of other people connecting, and it's a vicious cycle of trust misguided." So let's all be more careful about connecting with Loving, whoever that was, and actually connecting with real people who can help us do our jobs-

 

Chad:                    Don't do it.

 

Joel:                       ... and connect in the real world.

 

Chad:                    Don't do it.

 

Joel:                       Speaking of something you should do-

 

Chad:                    Yes.

 

Joel:                       ... is listen to this next advertisement from our sponsor Sovren, and we'll be right back to talk about Amazon Prime Day's Strike, No Strike. It'll be fun.

 

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Chad:                    At least the software's not trying to cat fish me.

 

Joel:                       And if it's a chat bot in California, you know there's a robot on the other end of it.

 

Chad:                    California Love. Yeah so, a story out of Courts-

 

Joel:                       Going back to Cali-

 

Chad:                    ... a new California law is pretty much making chat bots disclose that they're actually chat bots. California Governor, Jerry Brown signed regulations into law last Friday, September 30th, that should make it easier for Californians to know whether they're speaking to a human or a bot. Do job seekers care?

 

Joel:                       I think people probably care. There's this whole government versus AI automation that we've talked about. We've seen in Illinois with interviewing, you've got to tell them it's an... AI is reading their facial expressions, or voice and what not, and I think it's just going to happen. What I want to know is, how is California passing laws so quickly? They're passing shit like, if you're building a house it has to have solar panels on it. They're passing, if it's a chat bot. They pass stuff so quickly, I want to know what they're drinking, or what they're doing in California to pass these laws?

 

Chad:                    They don't have Mitch McConnell in California, is that what you're trying to say?

 

Joel:                       I don't know what it is, because I'm not attuned to the state legislature in California, but I just know that they pass laws over lunch. And it's either impressive, or really scary depending on your perspective.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, depending. I mean, this could perspectively impact more than just chat bots, because-

 

Joel:                       Oh yeah.

 

Chad:                    ... what's the difference between writing a script for a bot that sends e-mails, and replies on the behalf of a human. And we see this on the sales side, and the marketing side with the Marketo's of the world, and those types of platforms. So what's the difference? What's the actual definition of a bot when it comes to the disclosure of this regulation? If a bot pulls together an e-mail, sends it, does it have to say that in the signature line, created by bot?

 

Joel:                       Well, look at automation and voice. So if I talk to a robot, do they have to say, "Hi, I'm a robot, can we schedule your next hair appointment," or whatever it is, right? At what point do you have... Ultimately, everything will be robotic and automated, so everything that you do in life will have a little disclosure like, "I'm a robot," even though everyone will know it's a robot, because we'll all know that everything is automated.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. There's going to be a terms of slight... One of those. If you're using Duplex, there's a terms of service, and in the terms of service I'm sure it would say, "You're going to be speaking to a bot, and we're going to collect all your data, and..." I mean, just all this shit. So I think that's the easy part, it's something-

 

Joel:                       I don't know that it does. Duplex should... If Duplex is like, "Hey Google, schedule a hair appointment for next Tuesday," and then they call the salon and schedule an appointment for you, and then they put it into your Google calendar, I don't think there's any sort of disclosure when your robot calls the salon, that, "Hey, I'm a robot, scheduling an appointment for John my master," or whatever it is.

 

Chad:                    I think it could easily say, "Hey, this is Google Duplex calling for Chad, want to do a hair appointment, Ha that's funny." So that's all just verbiage, the way that you actually place it up. And the person on the other end of the phone, are they going to care if they get business through this-

 

Joel:                       No.

 

Chad:                    ... or not? I don't think they'll care. It's just like the job seekers, right? I don't believe job seekers give a shit that a bot is interacting with them,-

 

Joel:                       No.

 

Chad:                    ... because for years, they received no interaction. It was totally black hole. Now if a bot reaches out to them, they're like, "Oh my God, these guys actually care."

 

Joel:                       Which also goes to the, what's the penalty if it doesn't, right? So one, someone's actually going to have to report that, "Hey, they're not telling me that it's a chat bot." And then number two is, what's the penalty if you're guilty? So we already know that if you're texting without permission, the government will fuck you up. They will fuck you up big time. So there's actual lead... whatever. We won't get into this, but basically, there are people that will try to find people who aren't opting in, or have an opt in, and then they find a way to sue you. There's a whole industry around that. Anyway, for a different show. But if the penalty is a slap on the hand, and no-one really cares, then who gives a shit about this law anyway. But if the penalty is like, $5000 for every message sent by a robot, then holy shit, a lot of people are going to care, and a lot of people will try to profit from it on the legal side of the house.

 

Chad:                    There you have it.

 

Joel:                       There you have it. Okay, Striking at Amazon. Did you purchase anything on Prime Day this week?

 

Chad:                    I did not. I'm not much of a shopper. I'm sure Julie did though,

because she loves her Amazon Prime.

 

Joel:                       Yeah, we bought the kids iPads this week.

 

Chad:                    Oh, smart.

 

Joel:                       An epic deal on iPads. So they need it for school anyway, so we were able to do that. So we benefited from it, however, there is some mix up in the news, I guess dueling reports here, that was a strike in Minnesota.

 

Chad:                    Right.

 

Joel:                       The story you shared was, people in the street with pitchforks, marching into Amazon. And then the counter story from Amazon, which is fun, is basically that these people were paid, but only 15 people actually sort of marched on Amazon. And this was all sort of a group that was politically motivated and they paid people, et cetera. So I tend to believe Amazon, that there probably a ton... I mean, Amazon is not unionized, there's no Jimmy Hoffer behind Amazon managing and organizing all these workers. They probably all would lose their job potentially if they went out on strike. So I sort of believe that this was more of a group... anti-Amazon group trying to stir up some trouble there in good old, peaceful Minnesota.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. Peaceful Minnesota, where they still have to piss in garbage cans to make their quotas. I think we're focusing on the wrong thing, how many people showed up versus are they actually receiving a fair wage, and prospectively treated like robots who will pretty soon probably be replaced by robots? So that's the thing. Okay, Amazon Prime Day, we're going to walk out, there are a bunch of people with signs, who knows, paid not paid. Who was actually sticking up for these individuals, right? Because if you feel like you are the only person who can stick up for yourself, and you don't have a union of people, or a group of people, or somebody to ensure that the right things happening for the betterment of all of those employees, you feel helpless. You feel helpless.

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    It's not how many people marched, are their practices really fair? And from what we've heard, from haptic bracelets, pissing in trash cans and a bunch of other stuff, we can't... Whether you believe Amazon or not, I don't give a fuck. All those other things, are the things that I care about. Making sure that people get paid and they get treated well.

 

Joel:                       I'm just appalled that your wife, of all people, is supporting this kind of behavior with her wallet. And you can pass that along to her.

 

Chad:                    Yeah, I will. Yeah, a shout out Julie Sowash on that one. Way to end that segment.

 

Joel:                       Wait I've got to... There you go Julie, it's all your fault. All your fault. All right let's hear a quick word from our buddies at JobAdX, and we'll go to the meat of the show, the good stuff here at the end.

 

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Joel:                       Chad did you ever go to summer camp?

 

Chad:                    Yeah. Before we get there, I'd like to get some vindication in here. I just checked the Amazon account, and no purchases actually happened yesterday during-

 

Joel:                       Oh.

 

Chad:                    ... Prime Day, so Julie is vindicated and stepping back from her Amazon purchases. Take that Joel Cheesman.

 

Joel:                       All right. So what retailer of choice does Julie recommend for the best wages and working conditions?

 

Chad:                    All right, you'd have to get her on the podcast to ask that one.

 

Joel:                       We need some Sowash endorsement for-

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       ... our retail audience out there.

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       Summer camp, you've been? Like the whole canoeing, archery, the Bill Murray-

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       ... late '70s movie smash hit Meatballs?

 

Chad:                    Yeah. Not quite that fun, but yeah.

 

Joel:                       Are you ready for the summer? Are you ready for the good time? So Job Today, one of the most influential job sites over in Europe, they decided that it was a good idea to have a Job Today Summer Camp for kids. I know what you're saying, "What do kids do at the Job Today Summer Camp?"

 

Chad:                    Yeah, are they canoeing, are they archery? I mean-

 

Joel:                       Yeah, you'd think so, right?

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       Kids, luckily they're in London and Barcelona who attended. So according to a story at Angroup, the target audience is young people with little or no work experience. Summer camp is designed to improve their job hunting skills, and boost their resume.

 

Chad:                    What?

 

Joel:                       According to the site, each training day will include a morning session on job search techniques,-

 

Chad:                    No fucking way, how old are these kids?

 

Joel:                       Let me finish, interview tips, and coaching. In the afternoon, experts will lead hands on job training, successful applicants can attend one or more sessions. I just can't. How bad is-

 

Chad:                    At summer camp.

 

Joel:                       ... summer camp if you're learning to write a resume and interview?

 

Chad:                    Summer camp is time to get away all of the learning, the books, and all that other stuff. It's time to swim, canoe, all that stuff. This is not... This sounds like a Tiger Mom camp.

 

Joel:                       Yeah. It sounds like some fantasy concentration camp for kids. What in the world is going on over there in Europe?

 

Chad:                    That's fucking horrible.

 

Joel:                       I got nothing man.

 

Chad:                    That's fucking horrible. I've got something, the Swedes love this whole fucking microchip thing. More than 4000 people have already had these sci-fish chips added... We've talked about this before, it's about the size of a grain of rice and it's inserted into your hand. This gives you an opportunity to go and buy things much easier. So instead of using, like when we were just over in London, everybody was tapping their card, and it's kind of novel here to an... the whole pay thing, everybody did it. Now, that's not good enough, "Wait a minute I've got to pull my card out, no I don't want to do that. I'll just tap my hand on it." How much information are you giving away?

 

Joel:                       Why are people volunteering to do this?

 

Chad:                    They're fucking-

 

Joel:                       It just blows my mind.

 

Chad:                    ... idiots, dude. Geo location... I mean, can you imagine if insurance companies got their hands on some of the information that was actually embedded in your body? I mean it's just... Dude, I don't get it. What are people thinking?

 

Joel:                       Yeah.

 

Chad:                    And then, Elon Musk comes up with brain chips, pretty much. I mean, dude, it is freaking crazy. They call the ones that are in your hand, glorified smart watches, but Elon Musk says that these brain chips, they're like Bluetooth enabled implants. He's claiming the devices will enable telepathy and repair motor function in people with injuries. That comes from CNN Business. What the fuck?

 

Joel:                       Because I really want to know what everyone's thinking.

 

Chad:                    I don't want to know that, nobody.

 

Joel:                       All right. I don't want to know what my kids think about me.

 

Chad:                    Yeah. At all.

 

Joel:                       "Dad is so stupid."

 

Chad:                    Yeah, for sending me to-

 

Joel:                       "Why?"

 

Chad:                    ... sending me to Job Today camp.

 

Joel:                       Yeah, "I don't want to go to Job Today camp. No."

 

Chad:                    "All right, all right Cole, I know you don't want to go to Job Today camp, I can totally get it, but guess what, you're going to thank dad in 20 years." No, he's not, he's going to hate you.

 

Joel:                       Good news is kidnappings will stop, because we'll be able to track all of our kids wherever they go. So I guess there is some silver lining to this police state that we're moving toward.

 

Chad:                    You might as well put a collar on them.

 

Joel:                       Speaking of which, I'm going to throw in a little curve ball. We've all being seeing these face app, check me out 50 years from now-

 

Chad:                    Like the Facebook? Yeah.

 

Joel:                       What am I going to look like when I'm old, right?

 

Chad:                    Yeah.

 

Joel:                       So I love this... What can go wrong when an app basically dictates or determines what you're going to look like when you're old with face recognition type technology.

 

Chad:                    Right.

 

Joel:                       What can go wrong? So anyway, so privacy concerns... A story came out this week, privacy concerns are rising around the viral face transforming "face app", which has swiftly become a global pop cultural touch down. I personally haven't done it yet, I don't really want to know what I'll look-

 

Chad:                    No thanks.

 

Joel:                       ... when I'm old, because I'm getting old. Users are being cautioned that the

app, which allows users to see their "future self" by using AI software to instantaneously rework photos, could be misused by the software company's Russian based developers. Face App was modified... has modified more than 80 million user images, and according to its terms of use it can "still store and use images even if users delete them." What could go wrong people?

 

Chad:                    I've got nothing. We're putting chips in our hands, we're looking at putting chips in our heads, and-

 

Joel:                       We're going to job search summer camps.

 

Chad:                    ... and we don't mind giving all of our data to anybody and anyone, while we're getting cat fished on LinkedIn. So that's all I've got.

 

Joel:                       Fuck it, I'm going to go strike Amazon.

 

Chad:                    We out.

 

Joel:                       We out.

 

Announcer:        This has the been the Chad and Cheese podcast. Subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts, so you don't miss a single show. And be sure to check out our sponsors, because they make it all possible. For more, visit chadcheese.com. Oh yeah, you're welcome.

 

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