What happens when the world's largest CRM moves ATS?
Start-ups need to prioritize where they allocate resources and picking the perfect partner platform for your app can be a challenging task. While most HR tech providers rely on companies like iCIMS, Bullhorn, Greenhouse and others, some solutions are looking to a more massive option. One such software provider is This Way Global, or AI4Jobs, who has built its service on a little known platform called Salesforce. Why, exactly?
Well, Chad & Cheese dive-in to find out and make quite a few discoveries. For any company questioning their integration options, this episode is a must-listen.
Enjoy this exclusive brought to you from our friends at NEXXT.
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Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Joel: Oh yeah, you know what's up. We're back everybody. Welcome to The Chad and Cheese Podcast, HR's most dangerous. I'm your co-host Joel Cheesman.
Chad: And I am Chad Sowash.
Joel: And on this episode we are privileged to be joined today by Angela Hood from This Way Global, as well as Rich Landry, director of A. Mayer ISV solutions management at this little company called Salesforce. Guys and girls, welcome to the show.
Rich Landry: Thank you.
Angela Hood: Howdy.
Chad: That's the best Texas, howdy.
Joel: I'm from Texas.
SFX: Hell yeah.
Chad: Howdy y'all. So right out of the gate, we hear some things are going on over at This Way Global and with Salesforce. Can you give us a quick intro of yourself, Angela, from This Way Global, and then Rich over at Salesforce. Just a quick intro.
Angela Hood: Absolutely. I am the founder and CEO of This Way Global, and we have a product suite called AI4Jobs that serves mid-market and enterprise and solution providers inside the HR tech space.
Rich Landry: And then as that large title says, I actually lead a team where we kind of try to be the guide internally and externally to Salesforce's AppExchange where we have over 5,000 different partners working with us.
Chad: Wow. What is ISV stand for?
Rich Landry: Well, that's pretty cool. That's independent software vendor. So there's lots of independent software vendors. That's IBM, that's Oracle, that's Salesforce, that's everybody. Everyone who builds software.
Chad: Got you. Okay. Let's just jump into this craziness. Give us a quick overview, Angela, of this new partnership, this new app that's going to be in the Salesforce app store, AppExchange.
Angela Hood: Yeah. We're pretty excited about this. About 18 months ago, we as a company identified there were some pretty significant problems in the talent acquisition space. And we said, "Okay, where can we actually do what the customer wants us to do?" And we found that home inside the Salesforce ecosystem and build a partnership with Salesforce and we launch it here in a couple of weeks. We're pretty excited about it.
Chad: Okay. How many people are actually using Salesforce? How many companies are actually using Salesforce as an applicant tracking system? Because we know Salesforce as a juggernaut on the sales and marketing and some of the other industry sectors, but not in recruiting. So why should anybody give a shit about recruiting and why did you guys?
Angela Hood: Well, the big point is, there's a small company called Bullhorn that acquired a couple of other really not so small companies, Talent Rover and Jobscience, all built on Salesforce. And so we said, "Okay, here's some of the biggest staffing agencies in the world, including Adecco, Robert Half. They are all using Salesforce to power their ATS because they weren't able to get what they needed from the talent acquisition space as it is right now.
Angela Hood: So we said, "Okay, there's something there." We started digging into it more. We found 2,800 other companies that were using it. And then we started seeing our customers say to us, "Hey, we're having trouble because [inaudible 00:03:40.25] sunsetting and UltiPro and Kronos are merging. We don't know what's going to happen. We need a place to go." And they started highlighting that they wanted to get a Salesforce. And so that's why we turned and said, "This is a very customer focused solution, so let's go to Salesforce as well."
Joel: A little history lesson here, a little company called Google got into our space a few years ago in a big way and launched a solution called Hire, Hire by Google, which was essentially an applicant tracking system. This past year, Google announced that they were going to be shutting that down. A lot of people had entrusted them, a big name like Google, they're obviously going to be around. And I think a lot of people felt sort of shell shocked when Google said, "We're going to get out of this." So partly, how do you kind of calm any fears of companies that want to either use Salesforce as an ATS or use Salesforce as a recruiting tool in general, that you guys aren't going to turn around and go Google and pull the plug on some of these initiatives?
Angela Hood: Yeah, I think that's a valid request. And I think that a lot of customers have that concern. The thing that we really like about Salesforce app network and AppExchange is that you can go in there and plug and play and build up the solution that you need. So a company can say, "I want that from that vendor, this from this other vendor." And they're not requiring on all of us to work together in a partnership. They're also not getting closed out by some of the really big ATSs that don't have an open network.
Angela Hood: And that kind of flexibility is what made iTunes and Google Play, all the app exchanges so powerful, because it gave us the customer complete control. That's what we wanted to do. And so that's why we feel like that it's the best move and we're not going to, we're not forcing them to use anything that they don't want to use. They get to use which part of our app that they want. There's four different sections. And we're launching them, we're rolling out in phases so customers can adopt when they want to.
Chad: Okay. So overall when it comes to adoption and integration, integration is always a bitch on the recruiting side of the house. For you guys, why are you working with Salesforce? Is it easy for a company to go ahead and flip on an app. What's the time frame, integration time, that kind of thing? Is it a lot of pain or you don't think
Joel: And what's the cost?
Angela Hood: Yeah. So four hours and if you buy 10 seats or more, we do the integration without cost, additional cost to the customer.
Joel: Is it a cost to you to integrate with Salesforce?
Angela Hood: Well, so we, the way our relationship works with Salesforce is we pay Salesforce 15%. And that's something that we negotiated with them. We're happy to do that because we feel like there's a lot of value from the ecosystem. And it's same day access to the value that we drive as well because you could get results immediately. Just within 30 minutes of having the installation complete, you have results.
Joel: Is the 15% pretty consistent, Rich?
Rich Landry: Yeah, very consistent.
Chad: Okay. So four hours for implementation, that's it. Pretty much it's just a slow flip of the switch. And then you're talking about 30 minutes, after that you can actually start using the AI4Jobs platform in Salesforce?
Angela Hood: Absolutely. Yeah, within 30 minutes and we spent, we have a annual, or I'm sorry, quarterly offsites. We spent an entire offsite three days making sure that we could develop the technology to deliver value within 30 minutes of the installation being complete. So four hours for the installation and onboarding and 30 minutes to value.
Chad: Okay. So companies, and correct me if I'm wrong, so using Salesforce as the applicant tracking system, obviously all your candidates are going into Salesforce as the system of record, companies are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to drive candidates into their applicant tracking system into Salesforce. In this case, what you guys are doing is really going against that data to do matching. Can you explain that a little bit more?
Angela Hood: Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing we can offer is passive sourcing. So that's, we have 3,000 partners that are on the back-end of this and they're supplying that pipeline, if you think of it like that way, for passive candidates. That includes healthcare, technical defense and clearance jobs, which is huge right now. Then we enrich your current database to refresh your records to make sure that the records you have are current. That's huge. Then we remove the bias from the job description. We remove the bias from the applications and resume. We make the match, we rank in score and deliver it inside Salesforce natively.
Joel: When you mentioned Bullhorn and some other big names being integrated with Salesforce, and I would give a little bit of push back to say those guys integrate with a whole lot of systems. For you guys, is Salesforce going to be sort of the end all be all in terms of your integration strategy or are you also looking at integrating with a myriad of other ATSs or other providers? Are you putting all your eggs in one basket or otherwise?
Angela Hood: No, no. So we started actually with, our first integration was with Greenhouse. We have iCIMS coming up, we're under contract with them. We've got two or three others that we're finalizing right now. But we really, we saw Salesforce as the most flexible of all of these. And that was why we thought, okay, let's really double down on Salesforce. So this is a big initiative for the next 120 days. And the response we've had has been significant. We have almost half a million dollars in presales and that was just in the first quarter of this year.
Chad: We'll get back to the interview in a minute, but first we have a question for Andy Katz, COO of Nexxt. Andy, if a company wants to actually come to Nexxt and utilize your database and target texting candidates, I mean, how does that actually work?
Andy Katz: Right. So we have the software to provide it two different ways. If an employer has their own database of opted in text messages, whether it's through their ATS, we can text on their behalf. Or we have over eight and a half million users that have opted into our text messaging at this point. So we can use our own database, we could dissect it by, obviously by geography, by function, any which way some ... and sometimes we'll even parse the resumes of the opted in people to target certifications. So we really can dive really deep if they want to hone in on, just give me the best hundred candidates that I want to text message with and have a conversation back and forth with versus going and saying, "I need 30,000 retail people across the country." And that's more of a, yes, no, text messaging back and apply.
Chad: For more information, go to hiring.nexxt.com. Remember, that's Nexxt with the double X, not the triple X, hiring.nexxt.com.
Joel: So explain that, half a million in presales, has that directly because of the Salesforce integration?
Angela Hood: Yeah, that's specifically half a million dollars in presales just on the Salesforce app alone. And that was prior to us even launching the app. It was just because there was that much pin-up interest in demand. Because people are just not able to get what they want out of the applicant tracking systems because of lack of flexibility. Some of the platforms just don't integrate well. Just exactly what you just said, takes too long, cost too much money, too much paperwork. People need solutions now, not in three months.
Joel: Yeah. So as I look at the AppExchange and when you go in and you can sort of select categories to look through. And if I choose human resources, the first four results of the sponsored solutions, which I assume they're getting free advertising there because they are Salesforce, are Salesforce apps. And the recruiting app which has three out of five stars but only 11 reviews so far. Did any of that give you pause when you were doing your due diligence on Salesforce or were there other things that trumped that?
Angela Hood: I think it would have, one of the things we did as part of our due diligence, because we went to Dreamforce this year and actually talked to the other companies that are on Salesforce that also have apps. So the 5,000 companies that are using Salesforce for part of their own business growth. And about 83% of them I think is what's the number came back said, yes, they would be interested in using this technology. Then we also had five very large staffing agencies that came on board before we ever even built the app. And so we felt like we had enough growth potential that it's just a moment, we get to be first, maybe we get to be the strongest HR app. That's our objective at least.
Chad: Just from a ... let's go into the tactical kind of play on this. If I'm a company and I have your app, the AI4Jobs app. Is it the AI4Jobs app or is it This Way Global, first off?
Angela Hood: Yeah, it's AI4Jobs app. So This Way is a AI matching company, we match other things. But our platform for HR is AI4Jobs.
Chad: Okay. So I have the AI4Jobs app. If I post a job into my Salesforce system, which hopefully gets distributed out, will it automatically match as soon as I post, open that rec, post that job, will automatically match to the candidates in my database?
Angela Hood: It will.
Chad: Okay. How long does that usually take?
Angela Hood: It depends on how many applicants you have. There are rate limits that every system has, every applicant tracking system has. Salesforce has rate limits. It depends on that, it depends on what system you're ... how your system is set up. Because each org, each company, org inside Salesforce is set up differently as well. Generally you're going to start seeing your matches within 20 minutes. They'll get backlogged a little bit and once that catches up, you'll start seeing real time delivery. We go through, if you could imagine we can match 25,000 applicants to one job in about two and a half or three minutes.
Chad: Say that again please.
Angela Hood: 25,000 applicants to one job in two to three minutes.
Chad: Candidates rise to the top, that makes sense for them and they can just go about their jobs. I mean, this is something that's embedded in the system. The company really doesn't have to do anything, do they?
Angela Hood: No. I mean, the thing that they have to do is, we tell companies, "You need to proactively reach out to these people quickly." If you have applicants that have raised their hand and said, "I'm interested in the company, I'm interested in the job." Then the race is on for top talent. And you're competing against everyone else. So who gets there faster is going to win that candidate. And that's the real power in Salesforce.
Angela Hood: There's all these other systems, Pardot and Marketo, tons of other apps that they can add on to help them reach out to the candidate quickly, to be part of the marketing solution. Yeah, so it's ... and I think that's one of the reasons why people really like this, is they get to use the apps that they're already using in the core of the business and no longer is the candidate sourcing and the candidate marketing, that reach out part is no longer a subset that's sitting in talent acquisition. It's part of the core business structure and it gives them a little bit more power, a little bit more play, better access to budget.
Chad: Okay. So Rich, on the Salesforce side of the house, is there going to be an effort to focus on companies bringing them in, perspective companies that are using Fortune 500, Fortune 1000 companies that are using your product already, to switch over to use it as an applicant tracking system. So they're using it for sales and marketing. You're already in there. Are you going to focus on an effort to get HR and talent acquisition to use Salesforce as an applicant tracking system?
Rich Landry: Good question. And that ... The dogs are shying off, they didn't like that question. But yeah, that really, it looks at ... thank you very much, where the market is and where our customers go because that's the beauty of the AppExchange kind of as Angela mentioned, like an iTunes or an App Store, you can go out and build all the things you want to build. And as you mentioned, Google moved in and they moved out of it. So it really is dependent on our customers and where they go.
Rich Landry: But I think, to your original question, I think that is important to our customers to be able to, especially you look at large customers who want to do their own internal app recruiting, have the ability to say, "Okay, can I do this work? Can I do it?" And we have the platform for them to do it. And with Angela and This Way's technology, it makes it even better. As you said, the five minutes versus days of doing what you're trying to do. So yeah, I think it certainly could be.
Joel: I think a lot of buyers in our space sort of default to their ATS or some whatever, something that talent management specific to build apps upon. I'm curious in terms of trends, you guys are a bigger platform that people are moving to. Slack, which is obviously a popular messaging system and has their own app store as well that I know recruiters, recruitment solutions are building apps on their platform. You mentioned the iPhone and Android, which most people don't think of, but can really specifically be a recruiting tool or something that a vendor could build upon. Do you feel like this is a trend that we'll start seeing out of vendors, that they'll look at the bigger platforms, the consumer based platforms or maybe the bigger B2B platforms as opposed to the recruitment specific solutions?
Rich Landry: I mean, I think you have to. I think you have to. I mean, because everything is so mobile and so quick, like Angela pointed out earlier, it's how fast you get to the candidates, social actors, social media, et cetera, your phones, that's the way of the future. I mean, that's where we are today and it'll get worse and worse, so to speak or better and better maybe. But yeah, for sure. Definitely.
Joel: And specifically, so Angela's doing 15% of revenue on your app store, is that pretty much specifically everyone can build for free, but you're going to take 15% of anything that's made. And if I have a free app, can I build on your platform?
Rich Landry: Yeah. And our ecosystem or AppExchange has different levels of partnership and how you do things. So it all depends on what you're trying to do as far as the revenue that you share back with Salesforce. But again, Salesforce's value really is the platform, right? You don't have to have any these development costs. You put it on our platform, run it there. And that's why we have 5,000 plus customers out there building with us or partnering with us in the AppExchange. So yeah, it does vary though.
Joel: I know that you have sponsored positioning. What is that cost solution provider?
Rich Landry: And by sponsor you mean sponsor position on the AppExchange listing or?
Rich Landry: Yeah, that's, and there's different programs and they have a, it's called a marketing program, different marketing programs, different levels based on where you get different awareness so to speak, within the AppExchange. And that's all part of the program you sign up for.
Joel: No pricing you can give me on that, like what they can expect to pay to sponsor themselves.
Rich Landry: Yeah. No, I can't give you that. [crosstalk 00:19:15.19] after which program you're in. Prices vary. See dealer for retail.
Chad: See dealer for retail. Okay. So from a partnership standpoint, Rich, how many recruiting centric types of apps are currently in the AppExchange? And again, is there really an effort to be able to try to start partnering on this side of the tracks, so that if you are pulling in more great technology, hopefully you'll have some of those customers that are already using It from a sales and marketing standpoint to glide over into the recruiting side. Are you doing that as well? Not just focusing on driving sales efforts but also driving partnership efforts on the recruiting side?
Rich Landry: Yeah, definitely. If you look at, like you say, the major things you think of Salesforce as sales and service marketing, et cetera. But there's tons of problems out there to solve and that's the beauty of the Salesforce AppExchange, right? Our customers can have that. Partners like Angela and others solve those problems for us, come in and fill spaces that we'll never ever go into.
Rich Landry: And if you talk about, if you just type ATS into our AppExchange, you get 17 hits that pop up immediately, for different players in that space. But it's definitely a growing space. And that's the beauty again of the white space, you can solve that problem and Salesforce never has to go into it, yet our customers are still on the same platform, the same interface, the same usage and that's the beauty of it.
Joel: So right now if I go to HR, there are 97 apps in that category according to Salesforce?
Rich Landry: Oh yeah. If you're using AppExchange you type HR, correct. And if you type ATS, you'll get 17, you could type different code words. And the interesting thing about that, sometimes that's very accurate, and sometimes it's not, it's a little bit like you could have happen on Craigslist, right? People putting keywords, sometimes there's players out there. If you type in ATS now, you'll see target recruits to topic and Bullhorn. So you're seeing very big players and you see, click recruit and then you go down and see text us for Salesforce, probably doesn't have anything to do with ATS, but again, all about keyword searches.
Chad: Got you. So Angela, my last question, in what industries are you seeing quick adoption when it comes to using AI to do matching? Because we've talked about this before. We believe on the show, this is something that every platform should have just from an efficiency standpoint. But you know as well as I do, you probably know better than we do. Adoption is incredibly slow in HR and talent acquisition, but in some industries that's not the case like tech or healthcare. What industries are you seeing quick adoption from?
Angela Hood: Yeah, I mean by far there's four major ones. So medical, and medical right now because of what's going on with the coronavirus, it's been insane. Over the weekend, we were getting pounded for, "Hey, can you help us with this? Can you help us with this?" Because they don't know what to call the job or the type of candidate that they're looking for. So they need us to explore the data with them. So that one was, I would say number one right now. Professional roles that are highly technical, so really super specific things that have a lot of acronyms, that's easiest way to describe them. But where people can get the roles confused and the candidates confused easily, our technology understands the difference.
Angela Hood: A lot of data and AI related jobs and I would say defense and security clearance jobs is really where we have a sweet spot. And manufacturing I guess would be last. What we don't really see a lot of is our technology being used for fast food hiring, things like that. It's really more professional and higher salaried positions. And companies are saving millions of dollars by being able to identify the right talent, go after them, both passive and active applicants, and then also be able to look at their employees that match the jobs that are live.
Joel: Well, Angela, Rich, thank you for your time. So for any of our listeners who want to learn more about you or the Salesforce app store, where do you send them?
Angela Hood: Yeah, so we'd love for them to come to the website, thiswayglobal.com. And we will be live inside the Salesforce AppExchange. You can look up AI4Jobs or you can look up This Way Global, either one. And that will be live as of March the 16th, 2020.
Joel: We out.
Chad: We out.
Angela Hood: We out.
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