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Being an industry leader isn't easy... Constantly fighting the good fight, providing for clients and job seekers while protecting your flanks and reinventing the entire recruitment industry... That's exactly what iCIMS leadership is doing. . In mid-Oct Joel and I flew to NJ and landed at iCIMS HQ for the iCIMS iNFLUENCE event. During the event Colin Day, iCIMS CEO and Chairman of the Board along with other iCIMS leaders shared their common vision for more than just iCIMS. For the industry and how iCIMS will lead in reinventing it. This is just one episode in the iCIMS iNFLUENCE 2018 Series. PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by: Disability Solutions is your sourcing and recruiting partner for people with disabilities. This episode starts with Colin talking about what Google wants.. and what he believes is of utmost importance... Chad - So Colin what does Google want? Colin - They (Google) want no middlemen and they want single click apply. And for me that's music to my ears, that's absolute music to my ears. Now people will say Colin you're stupid they came out with an ATS too, they're a competitor of yours. Colin - Their ATS is for the G-Suite, for the SMB. We would be really nervous if we were an SMB vendor. I don't see Google building an enterprise quality Talent Acquisition platform over the next 5-10 years. It's too complicated, they haven't proven they can do it so I say let them have small companies out of the G-Suite I will take that any day for them to get Google for Jobs out. Colin - Because that's the most important thing here. Chad - Then Colin answers my question about slowing down job boards scraping and pounding iCIMS career sites, most importantly becoming the fast lane of job content for Google... Listen up.. Chad - You're talking about slowing down other lanes. Right. So you want a fast lane to Google but you want to slow down the other lanes. What do you mean buy "slowing down the other lanes"? Are you going to hold jobs? Colin - I don't think we're going to hold them unfairly , we're just not going to let them do unnatural... I mean right now they... When we look at our portal traffic and what slows down portals or whatever, well if Indeed is scraping you every 5 minutes, it slows you down. So I think we're just going to look at SLAs and say "Guys weren't not going to try and be unfair." Chad - Why does Colin believe this to be important? Well, Google over the years (before Google for Jobs) had crowned Indeed the winner of the job site wars and one of the reasons Indeed was crowned revoled around getting job content to Google faster than any other platform, including the ATS. Well, that is going to stop when it comes to iCIMS and their client's jobs. iCIMS will become the fastest lane in delivering jobs, while all others will be taken down a notch... or two... You can find more episode in the iCIMS iNFLUENCE 2018 Series at chadcheese.com... or better yet, never miss an episode of HR's Most Dangerous Podcast by subscribing using iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotifiy or where ever you get your podcasts. #iCIMSiNFLUENCE #iCims #Marketing #ATS #CRM #RMP #Event

Wall Street has fallen asleep on employment websites for many years. After Glassdoor's major tease job earlier this year, it's looking like things are finally starting to heat-up with Upwork, Slack and ZipRecruiter on The Street. PLUS Amazon raises wages - not really Google is watching you - "Rockwell style" LinkedIn uses data to launch a money machine - srsly wtf are Monster & CB doing? Goodtime.io banks on automating interview scheduling , which everyone is now doing! Enjoy and visit sponsors Sovren, JobAdX and new addition Canvas. PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by: Disability Solutions helps companies find talent in the largest minority community in the world – people with disabilities. Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast. Joel: Hidey ho, boys and girls. Welcome to another fun filled episode of the award-winning, let me say that again, award-winning, Chad and Cheese Podcast. The world has lost its mind. We're HR's most dangerous and I'm Joel Cheesman. Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash and I'm kissing the ReSi right now. Joel: On this week's show, ZipRecruiter keeps making it rain. Slack and Upwork hit up Wall Street, and if it wasn't enough for Google to spy on all of us, they're now helping your employer spy on you. Joel: Before you run to your backyard bunker or slap some tinfoil on your head and open up that can of Spam, listen to this word from a sponsor. JobAdX: How many times has someone said to you, "We're the Uber of ... " Or, "It's the PayPal of ... " Maybe they're the Facebook of ... In many, many cases, these comparisons fall short of being close to reality. Or even a useful illustration of what useful organizations actually do. In the case of JobAdX, our example is so accurate, so spot on, that it's synonymous with our work. JobAdX, is Google AdSense, for jobs. JobAdX: That means we're an efficient, persistent and smarter ad unit for job-related advertising. As the best ad tool in the industry, JobAdX offers recruitment marketing agencies, RPOs and staffing firms, real-time dynamic bidding and delivery for client postings through the industry's first truly responsive tool. JobAdX: All this is done with the flexibility of JobAdX's cost per impression, click, or application. We offer unique budget conservation options to effectively eliminate spending waste. We're not set and regret. For direct clients, JobAdX offers superior candidates with the best of programmatic efficiency and premium page ad positioning. JobAdX: We also provide publishers and job boards higher rev share than other partners, through our smarter programmatic platform. In many cases 30-40% greater and more through our scalable model. To partner with us, you can visit or search, JobAdX.com or email us at: joinus@jobadx.com to get estimates or begin working together. JobAdX, the best ad tool providing smarter programmatic for your needs. Oh, and you've been wondering why the British accent? JobAdX has just launched in the UK, too. Chad: I bet if you and I read that with a British accent from now on, Tim will get us a new ad much quicker. Joel: And we'll lose listeners, much faster. Chad: No, I think it'll be funny as hell. Joel: Yeah, dude. Chad: C'mon. Joel: [horrible British accent] Hello. JobAdX? You like? Chad: [even worse British accent] Or, the Facebook of ... Yeah. No, I get it. Joel: Shout-outs. Chad: Shout-outs. Okay, you get the first one. Joel: Peter Clayton. Oh my God, dude. My man- Chad: Awesome. Joel: ... Peter Clayton, video/audio extraordinaire was shooting Death Match from last week, and provided assorted summary. He interviewed us, we published it on the podcast, so if you subscribe iTunes, Google Play, et cetera., just play that baby and the video comes out. But Peter just crushed it and continues to do so. Major shout-out to PC. Chad: That's pretty awesome. And we also dropped ALLYO's Death Match Pod yesterday, so listen up and watch for Talk Push, Uncommon and Canvas. Their Death Match performances are on the way. Joel: I think Uncommon's next, right? Chad: No, Talk Push. Joel: Okay, but we're going to be rapid firing these mothers in the next few days I think. If I can get off the couch for five minutes. Chad: No, shit. Wow. Joel: I'll get those things off. Bumble. Chad: Bumble, yeah, Bumble. Joel: Bumbles next. Everybody, Bumble, dude. I mean we talked about them once, because they had Bumble Biz I think, a while back. Chad: Yeah. Joel: But I think we were both impressed by their full-page ad during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings that simply said, "Believe Her," right? Chad: It said, "Believe Women." Joel: "Believe Women." Ups to that. Chad: Understated. It was in Bumble colors, but that's all it said, it said, "Believe Women." Had a small Bumble logo in the upper right. Yeah, and I mean their organization really is focused on women, so for them to actually come out the way that they did was incredibly smart. It's a great message and it's a message that we should all embrace. But it was pretty awesome to see them do that. Joel: And by the way, it's my understanding that dating sites don't exist without women, so it's a pretty savvy move. Chad: No, shit. Matt Plummer over at Zip commented on LinkedIn. He said ... We had our picture with our new award, the ReSi, at TAtech. He said, "Congrats on the ReSi. I don't know what category you won, but I assume it wasn't podcasting." SFX: Boo. Chad: That's fucking awesome. Joel: That was just cold, man. That was just cold. Chad: I love it. Joel: Shout-out to iCIMSs. Chad: Okay. Joel: I don't think we've talked about it, but iCIMs is flying us, as well as a lot of other, I guess, "Thought Leaders" out to New Jersey, the vacationing hotspot. And treating us to some iCIM's insights. I think we're going to do a little interview with the CEO, maybe. We'll get Susan Vitale to give us a, we out, while we're there, so yeah, excited about that. Chad: And some Kostelnik time, too, I believe. Joel: Oh, yeah. Chad: That should be sweet. Joel: That would be nice. Chad: Next week, Louise Triance, from UK Recruiter, she loves talking about Google. But she loves talking about Google and the recruitment industry more, with me. So we're actually doing a talk on Crowdcast. We're going to talk about the Google APIs on the recruitment side, and a bunch of crazy shit, so check out my Twitter feed: chad_sowash and register up. Check it out. Joel: That sounds like a party. Joel: Shout-out to Dirk Spencer, TA guy over at JC Penney. Yeah, I guess they are still in business. Chad: Did you say, Dirk Diggler? Joel: Dirk, no that's a different show. Chad: Oh, my bad. Joel: Saw him SourceCon, hit me up on LinkedIn and said, "It's nice to see that you're finally aging." I'm not exactly sure how to take that, but Dirk, shout-out to you for that. Chad: Tim Meehan over at KellyOCG for giving the pod some love on LinkedIn. He's a fan of the show and apparently loves the "Colorful Language." Joel: So educational. Chad: Yeah. Joel: Ty Abernethy shout-out. Ty is known primarily for, Take the Interview, which ConveyIQ is what they are now. He basically has left. Talked to me about his new start-up, which is coming soon, so Ty, it's good to see you out there still hitting the start-up world. Shout-out to you. Good luck to you and let us know when you drop. He's already reserved a spot on, Firing Squad. Chad: Yes. That's what I was going to say. Get his ass on, Firing Squad. Chad: To Henrik Christensen, he actually asked me on LinkedIn, "Can you share a screen dump of Google showing job suggestions on the homepage?" And with the new Chrome update ... We've been talking about these job suggestions, which thought was really cool. That has gone away, so the new Chrome update, which looks, I mean it looks pretty fricking spectacular. I like it. But unfortunately those job suggestions on the homepage have gone by the wayside. SFX: Boo. Joel: I've got to say, the Chrome page is awesome. For the Safari guys, the Firefox guys, man, up your game, because the new Chrome is really beautiful and really nice. Chad: They're kicking ass, dude, kicking ass. Joel: I hate the screen shots of sites that you visit. That are log-in screens or they're blank and it's just a white square. Anyway, yeah, Safari needs to up its game, take some of that trillions of dollars you have and put a new paint job on the Safari website. Joel: Quick shout-out, last for me, Sofia Coon, marketing person over at kununu. She's looking for a new opportunity. She's been really helpful to us; helped facilitate an interview with their CMO. I hope that this is not a bad omen for kununu's future, however I fear that, that may be the case. Chad: Yeah, let's hope not. Don't forget our listeners. You wanted to shout-out to the listeners, right? Joel: Oh, shit. Yes. We tipped it this week, right, or we almost tipped the thousand? Chad: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. A thousand podcast listens in a single freaking day, man. That means just ridiculous. Thanks so much to our listeners, I mean keep listening. Keep tweeting. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell your peers. And get them all to subscribe. Joel: Remember when we said, "Man, if we could get a hundred listens for a show, that we'd be just crushing it?" Chad: Yeah. Joel: And look at us now. So yeah, thanks listeners. You keep listening and we'll keep talking. Joel: All right, hot off the presses, ZipRecruiter, you may have heard them, you may have seen them. May be sick of them. Has raised another 156 million dollars. Chad: Hello. Joel: And is now worth an impressive, 1.5 billion dollars. Yeah, hot off the news. Chad: Do we also want to take a historical look at what Monster and CareerBuilder actually sold for? Joel: Sure. About a third of that, I believe. Chad: Yes. It's about what, 500 million a piece, so yeah, Zip is ... they're upping their game and we actually did a segment on them, I think it was last week, talking about how they are focusing heavily on data and they've been focusing on the deep learning piece. And they're not in this for the short game, kids. They are doing a great job, up-front, right now, but they are looking at how they can do a better job. And this cash is definitely going to help them fucking do that. Joel: And don't forget that they are the presenting sponsor for, Serial, the most popular podcast in the world, which makes me think some of this 156 million dollar new raise is going to go to the Chad and Cheese kitty, because clearly, clearly they have enough money now to afford the Chad and Cheese Podcast. But I guess, stay tuned on that one, kids. We'll see how that one goes. Joel: Obviously an IPO has to be coming. We talked about Glassdoor selling for 1.2 billion, they were snatched up before they went public. Could Zip get snatched up, otherwise an IPO has to be coming, don't you think? Chad: They're getting pretty expensive right now. I mean, if you think about all the cash that they're taking. I mean, yeah, there's still an opportunity to be bought. Joel: I still think there's some danger here. I mean, they're still looking down the barrel of the Google, Microsoft, LinkedIn, Facebook, gun. And let's admit, they have to spend a lot of money to keep the traffic gods happy. And I don't see that changing any time soon. I don't know how much they have to spend to get the traffic they need. How much space for profit there is with the ads in the market they're doing. Joel: To me, I've always thought Indeed and Zip are in this horrible hamster wheel of, spend money, keep getting traffic, keep customers happy, keep spending money and then just keep doing that. And maybe they've got the formula down. Maybe they're golden, but man I think that's a really tough game to keep going when people like LinkedIn and Microsoft and Google just have a built-in audience. Chad: Well I think they do have a built-in audience. It's the database that they are amassing every single day with all this money that they're spending. And being able to target and re-target individuals who are closer to qualified, if not qualified, for a specific position. Chad: I think what they're doing in playing this Indeed type of game with the advertising money is they're able to build this huge data base so that they can go to the data base first. That's the primary, because they've already paid for those people. Go to that primary data base first, start targeting them. Pull those individuals in to be able to apply for an easy apply, right. For jobs that are being posted. And if it doesn't meet a certain threshold of what they want from an amount of candidate standpoint, then they can turn on programmatic and they can start to push jobs out there, right. Chad: I think from a sustainability standpoint, that's where you start to really level and balance, not spending as much money from a programmatic standpoint, as opposed to using a data base and targeting who you have already. Joel: Yeah, and I think it's going to be paramount for them to penetrate the enterprise business in some way because I'm not sure they can survive being the local pub solution for hiring. I think they're going to have to extend beyond that, and I think they're going to get heat from the companies that I've talked about that are platforms for hourly workers to pick where they work and things like that. I think if Zip doesn't create something competitive to that, that it's going to be hard to stick with the lower-level, entry-level jobs that they're known for. Chad: Yep, totally agree. Joel: More in the IPO news. Rumors for Zip that we just talked about radically but Upwork, which we've talked about glowingly in the past, actually went public this week. Their first day on the market was yesterday. So they first went to market between the $10 and $12 per share. That went up to about $12 and $14 per share. I think they actually went out at $15. It quickly went to $23, which these things do. And then they totally stalled and went down from $23 to about $21. Joel: A lot of people are citing challenges with competition. You have LinkedIn sort of getting into this. You have Fiverr and you have Freelancer, more on a global basis. But I think more interestingly to me is that the gig economy as a whole is getting a lot of heat in that there aren't as many giggers or freelancers as maybe we think. And, the money that you're making freelancing, particularly with Uber and Lyft, is much less than what people expect. And the amount of profit that people are making is going down significantly. So those two challenges have really, I think, kept their stock sort of challenged or had a ceiling at that 20-ish level. I don't know if that'll change. What are your thoughts? Chad: Yeah. They talk about the number of online freelances as simply not that large. I think one of the reasons why it's not that large is that our industry moves like molasses in January. It is uber slow. We are so behind every other piece of technology that's out there. And to be able to adopt something like this, which is incredibly smart, to be able to really have a platform pretty much on demand. Have talent to be able to pick up projects for you makes a hell of a lot of sense. Chad: But the problem is we're still in a 1950s style, "Well, you have to come work for me with benefits," and all this other stuff. Trying to get out of that thought process, a company has to get out of that first. I mean they really do. They have to get out of it to be able to open up those types of positions, and then the people will come. I mean that's all there is to it. Chad: So is it a situation where really there aren't enough freelances out there? I think that's bullshit. I think everybody pretty much is a freelancer, and they could pick up projects in most cases. It's just that our industry and the companies in HR and talent acquisition move too goddamn slow. Not to mention, we hear all the bitching and complaining about not being able to actually find the type of talent that we want and/or need because they're looking at still traditional types of job units. Right. "This is a traditional type of job." Bullshit. Break it up into freelancer type of work. Joel: I think we're both long-term pretty bullish on Upwork. I think they have a pretty good mote. I think that once they start mobilizing the enterprise, which they're trying to do, and I think will eventually happen. I think things really happen quickly. Let's be honest, near unemployment is not going to last forever. Jobs are not going to be plentiful forever. And when the economy goes south, people that are laid off are going to look for options, and I think the freelance option is going to be one that many, many people look at. And once they get hooked on sort of the freelance life, and taking on projects that are exciting, and working with various companies, and maybe I'm bias because that's what I do, they'll ... more and more people gravitate and embrace a site like Upwork for their wellbeing and their livelihood than, "I've got to get a job." Right? There's another option out there. I just think with low unemployment, they've got a job and that's their life. And then when that changes, they'll look at other options. Chad: There's no question. And again, we have to think about work in a much different way. We just have to. If we don't, we're going to get passed up by other countries. Joel: And I would say the big majority of folks on Upwork that embraced it really quickly were international where there aren't as many opportunities and to be accessible to companies in America, and Europe, and Asia was obviously very appealing to that audience. So, it'll just take some time. But yeah, I think Upwork is in the catbird seat as far as a freelance economy, which we think will eventually happen, although it's under pressure at the moment. Chad: Exactly. Joel: So more IPO news, more rumors. Slack, which we've talked about a lot and, frankly, laughs at ZipRecruiter's 1.5 billion valuation, because Slack's got to be in that seven to eight billion dollar number by now. They're finally reportedly going IPO early 2009. Thoughts? Chad: Yeah. This is incredibly interesting from the standpoint of ... Slack, and this is from the Wall Street Journal Story, "Slack operates a popular workplace instant messaging app." That's what we've talked about for a very long time. It's a messaging app. It's like, "Jesus man, how could it have this kind of valuation." But we talked about last week the acquisition of Astro being able to really blur the lines, we believe, or at least I believe, in what messaging is. Chad: Instead of having all these different platforms to be able to text, and to be able to Facebook message, and to be able to do your Slack messaging, and so on, and so forth. To be able to bring that all together in one platform. And then all the data that you're able to log within all those conversations, all those documents, so on and so forth, it becomes an incredibly powerful system, but still a messaging system, a productivity system in some cases. So I think it's interesting. It still really is ... It's a crazy story. I mean, it really is. Joel: When you look at Google and Microsoft, they really were built in large part by email. I mean Google was already a search engine, but until it had Gmail, and it had your information, and it was able to build products around that, they were just Google, and not that that's bad, but. I mean email really put them in the enterprise sort of work space that they're in today, Outlook as well. Right? I think Microsoft, once they had email, they could build all this other stuff around it. And I think Slack is a new generation of communication. To me, the next phase is to start becoming a Microsoft/Google competitor. Joel: I don't know what that looks like, but Microsoft is labeled as a competitor and a threat. I'm sure Google looks at them the same way. Why else would they be valued at five, six, seven billion dollars? To me it's because that's the vision of what they're painting for investors. Joel: I'm super intrigued by Slack, super interested for when they go public. I think we've talked about the app, the app infrastructure that they have. That some of the most exciting small companies and startups in our space are building on Slack, and so I think they've really got something. I'm really excited about them IPOing next year, and we'll definitely be covering that hardcore. Chad: And it's hilarious because Stewart Butterfield, who sold Flickr to Yahoo, what he's been doing is he's been trying to create an online gaming system since before Flickr. They were running out of money, so they had this kind of side product that they were doing, which today we know as Flickr, and they started to put a little bit of love into that. And they sold it to Yahoo, got a great exit. And then the same thing happened. They went back to the online gaming system, couldn't get money out of it. The messaging system that they built internally was Slack, and that's how ... They were like, "Well, we've got to sell something. Let's go and use this thing." It's fucking amazing. I mean Stewart sucks at building games, but he's awesome at photo sharing and messaging. Joel: How many companies in our space are hitting themselves in the head going, "Why didn't we come up with that? It's just messaging on the phone." Anyway. Chad: It's crazy. Joel: So yeah, IPO excitement, rumors, reality, and projections. Exciting times. Chad: Yes. It's good to know. Joel: How do you want to work this new Canvas ad into the show? Chad: For everybody who doesn't know, Canvas is a new sponsor, and they're slow in getting us an ad with a lady with an English accent. Joel: They're clearly basking in the glow of their death match glory, which I can't blame them for. Chad: Exactly. Joel: And they're actually, because we know those guys, are actually doing real work, getting customers, getting ... shaking the tree. So, we're not going to hate on them for not getting us an ad in time. We love these guys. They're crushing it. But yeah, they can do better than us just freestyling an ad for them. Chad: Lean and mean, that's what they are right now. Chad: But let's talk about the world's first text-based interviewing platform, Canvas. Shall we? Joel: Sure. Chad: Aman, the CEO, talked about on stage, and Death Match is ... I think one of the coolest features that we've seen is that this is really ... It gives you the opportunity to have like your automated messaging, which has the human override piece. Right? Chad: One of the things that I know you have issues with, and so do I in some cases, is that kind of human touch being taken out of things. Joel: Too much, "Bleep bloop, bleep bloop." Chad: But not with Canvas. Joel: No. Not with Canvas. Chad: The Canvas bots, which is the automated piece, but again has that human interaction where you can actually override it and start to have those conversations. It's really a cool product, not just from the standpoint of the opportunity to engage candidates. But I've been on platforms before that you use for a while, and it's like it hurts to use because it's so ugly. This thing's a hot looking piece of platform, right? And it works, and it does exactly what companies need. Community Health, I think, here in Indianapolis had like an 85% open rate for their texts to nurses. That's fucking crazy. Joel: Yeah. But that's standard texting stuff. And Aman, being a maverick in this space back with his days at Cha Cha, understood that, and he's bringing it to the employment space. To me, back to your, "How automated do you want to be?" These guys are the Burger King of the space, right? They're going to give it to you however you want. If you want to be totally automated, be totally automated. If you want to be semi-automated, we got that for you to. If you want to take it all out of the equation, you can do that as well. Joel: I thought you were going to talk about your love for Bitmojis, and a new product that allows employers to send Bitmojis and create a personality around their product. But you know, if you don't want to talk about Bitmojis, I'm okay with that too. Chad: Oh, dude. My daughter just went to college, and one of the best ways to actually communicate with her is on Snapchat. And on Snapchat, they have the Bitmojis. Now I feel like I'm really a part of the Canvas family because I have a Bitmoji, and I use it in my emails and all that other happy horse shit too. Joel: Yeah. You do use it in your emails, and it's ... It's miserable. Chad: Look, messaging is where everything is going. Younger folks, older folks, everyone's on text messaging and messaging. Canvas is on the cutting edge of that stuff. More and more companies are getting into the space. It's getting more competitive, and this is where you need to be as a customer. Canvas is certainly one that everyone needs to look at. Chad: GoCanvas.io, not a great URL, but that's what it is. GoCanavas.io. Go to the right-hand corner. It says, "Request a Demo," click that bad boy, get a demo, and you'll thank us. Joel: And if you mention Chad and Cheese, they might send you a free Koozie. I don't know. Chad: Boom. Joel: That wasn't too bad of an ad, right? That was all right. Chad: That was pretty awesome. Joel: All right. Let's talk about Amazon raising its minimum wage to $15 and then pulling a switcheroo on their commission structure. Chad: Go ahead. You start. I've got to get the paper bag and start deep breathing. Go ahead. Joel: This story fires you up. Joel: So, to much acclaim and celebration by their workforce, Amazon announced that they were going to raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour. Bernie Sanders got all hot and bothered, and loved this. Bezos went on stage and said, "Hey. We can't rely on government to lead the way to higher wages. We're going to lead, and bring higher wages, and force other companies to give their workers higher wages, so they won't come over to Amazon." Really warm and fuzzy story. News outlets went crazy. Politicians went nuts. Joel: And then, as Amazon is apt to do, pulled the rug out, quietly, after the fact, and announced that, quote, "They'll eliminate monthly bonuses and stock awards for warehouse workers." This is according to Bloomberg. They say that bonuses sometimes amounted to several hundred dollars per month. This follows, of course, the wage increase announcement. Rumor has it by some workers, they're not real happy about the minimum wage increase with the takeaway of the commission structure because a lot of them will actually make less money now. Chad: Hey, Bernie, you just got bait and switched, dumbass. Joel: You got Bezosed Chad: Bezosed. Chad: Seriously, this is all politics and optics. They're trying to change the narrative of employees pissing in garbage cans because they can't take bathroom breaks because that would put them behind their quota at work. Testing haptic bracelets that buzz employees when they aren't near where they're should be. And now, I just found this out. Somebody actually pointed it out to me. There's a patent that was submitted to put Amazon human workers in cages while they're on the floor. Chad: It's like, "Dude ... " Joel: Maybe they can fill them with the Twitter zombies that are out tweeting about how great it is to work at Amazon. Chad: Yeah, exactly. Chad: I mean, it's over and over. It's like, "Dude, you aren't pushing anything. The only thing you're pushing is a bunch of bullshit, and people are going to find out about it." I mean, we're in a land of transparency for goodness sakes. Joel: Amen. Chad: And if individuals really wanted $15 an hour, they didn't want you to take away bonuses, which probably would level that back out to what they were being paid before, if not less. Joel: I bet Amazon is going to save money from this move, I really do. Chad: Probably. Joel: Bezos, God love him, I mean the dude knows how to work the political PR angle. Because while he's launching rockets and drones into space and slave wages for his workers, he's out buying the Washington Post. He's looking really good with politicians. Because ultimately the big criticism of them was just the hourly ... the pay stub, the hourly salary. No one took a look under the hood and said, "Okay. Well, salaries are kind of low, but the commission structure is ... " You know, they can make significantly more money. Ultimately, I think he's just biding his time before this whole thing gets automated. Joel: I also think the move to have franchisees who deliver Amazon products and saying that those folks will make, you know, six figures a year. I think that was pretty genius. I mean the guy knows how to work the PR game. I think it's sad for his workers that are going to be in cages working for slave wages and tweeting all day. That's a bad thing for America, but it's an opportunity for the Walmarts and Targets of the world to make a stand and make a statement I guess. Chad: Robots and drones, that's the future of Amazon. Joel: Let's talk a little bit about LinkedIn Talent Insights. Chad: Yeah. Joel: I love this. I think I said this last week or the week before. We got to HR Tech, Monster drops Monster Studios, which is kind of a quite little video thing. Careerbuilder drops augmented reality, which we both think is totally absurd, and ridiculous, and will probably be gone in six months. And LinkedIn, at the same time, drops Talent Insights, which is a culmination of all the data they have on people, activity, and jobs, data, data, data. And how they can take all that data and make sense of it to help people recruit, build their brand, predict where people are going, predict where people are going. Help predict where we should build our next factory because that's where these workers are; to predict what companies we should poach from because these are the companies that are losing folks. And actually, I don't know if I mentioned this, but in the demo that I had, we looked at Salesforce and we looked at Salesforce data, and they had CareerBuilder as losing, I think, 26 people to Salesforce in the last, whatever, six months or a year. That data point alone was worth the demo knowing that so many CareerBuilder folks are leaving for Salesforce. But anyway, again you talk about chess and checkers; Linkedin is playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers for the most part. Chad: It just doesn't make any sense for the CareerBuilders and the Monsters of the world. CareerBuilder has talent discovery; they pull off of EMSI data, which is workforce data, so they have a ton of this stuff. The thing is, over the years they have sucked at marketing, so nobody really knows broad base that they have this powerful kind of tool, because they do have huge warehouses of data on candidates, and movement, and those types of things. They have been doing things like this, probably not in the exact same way. Monster's the same kind of scenario. Chad: So, 100 percent right. Do we focus on actually leveraging more of what is going to sell and get you to qualified candidates, number one, or do we talk about augmented reality, Pokemon jobs bullshit, or pushing videos on job postings? That's the big game, man. How are you going to sell those two pieces versus this big data play that really focuses on talent, and qualified talent, where it's moving and where you can go start targeting it? Joel: And one thing that Linkedin got right early on and continues to get right is that their data is more or less a living, breathing thing. When I post my resume on CareerBuilder, if I get a new job I don't automatically think I've got to update my resume on CareerBuilder. But when I'm in Linkedin, I'm like I got a new job, I've got to update my profile, as well as share it and people are congratulating me, and blah blah blah. Linkedin Insights has this living, breathing data set that CareerBuilder and Monster, with their current resume structure, do not have. So to me, it was a significant difference in what Linkedin is doing, and what CareerBuilder Insights or whatever is doing or could be doing. Linkedin has a different ... they're playing a different game. Chad: It's so easy, though. You have resumes which could easily be turned into profiles. You can parse that out and you can field that data very simply, not to mention- Joel: But people have to update it. Chad: No. No, no they don't. Listen, just sit back and listen there for a second, Sweetheart. What happens is you get a Crowded Refresh or you get an Entelo or you get something like that, partner with them, acquire them, whatever you need to do to be able to constantly refresh that data. The web is nothing but data; go use it, mine it, that's what it's there for. So yeah, I get it. On Linkedin, people are better at updating their info, but info's being updated all over the place. That's why the Monsters and the CareerBuilders of the world should be focusing more on long-term strategy on targeted qualified talent versus VRs and augmented reality. Joel: You keep defending your position there in fantasy land with what might happen or what could happen. I'm going to deal with what's real, and Linkedin is real. Chad: It is real. I agree. Joel: And you know what else is real? Chad: What? Joel: Our sponsor, Sovren. Let's hear from them and talk about Google Simply Hired, good God. Good times, and more automated scheduling stuff. Sovren: Sovren is known for providing the world's best and more accurate parsing products. And now based on that technology comes Sovren's artificial intelligence matching and scoring software. In fractions of a second, receive match results that provide candidates scored by fit to job, and just as importantly, the job's fit to the candidate. Make faster and better placements. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting Sovren.com. That's S-O-V-R-E-N-dot-com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates, and collaborates like a human. Sovren. Software so human, you'll want to take it to dinner. Joel: Boom. Chad: There you go. Parsing products, there you go. There's the answer, Joel. First and foremost, go to Sovren, have them do the parsing so that you have the field of data that you need, and then start to mine the web. It's so fuckin' easy. See? We even had the answer right in the ad. Joel: That's right. Go acquire Sovren and then cancel your sponsorship with Chad & Cheese because they talk so much shit about your company ... Chad: I didn't say acquire Sovren. I said go use their products. Joel: Chad, do you remember the song I Always Feel Like Somebody's Watching Me? Chad: Yeah, Rockwell, baby. Joel: So I thought of that ... Yeah, Rockwell with voice by- Chad: Michael Jackson. Joel: -Michael Jackson, of course. Which was the only reason that song was a hit song. Chad: Yes. Joel: But Google is watching you. We kind of knew that. But released news reports recently out, Google is going to help employers understand who's using its G Suite product and who isn't. So, employees out there who have G Suite that aren't using it, your boss is going to know and you might be in trouble. Chad: Especially projects, collaboration projects and things like that, that's really what you're looking for. This is collaboration software. It really is, so they'll be able to actually see what you're doing, if you're doing, and if you're not. The big thing for me, which I thought was interesting from our standpoint, is what about Hire by Google? That's a part of the G Suite, right? Chad: Yeah. Chad: So if recruiters aren't in there actually using it and collaborating, are these same types of analytics going to be provided to hiring managers and recruiting managers or what have you? Joel: Sure. I think there's definite room for companies to know our recruiters aren't using our products, and that's good for Google because people will use the products. It might be bad for people who don't use the product. I've got to think Microsoft and Linkedin will come out with this soon at some point. And by the way, if they know who's using and who isn't, they know who they can jack the price up on because it's so integral to their business. Chad: Yeah. I would say to an extent, but still if you think about it as a hiring manager, if I can go in to take a look at analytics and see that my recruiter's not actually working on my fucking requisition, I can raise some hell because I need some talent. That being said, you actually found some data on Simply Hired. I don't know how anything's getting on Simply Hired anymore, by the way, but it was actually about monitoring messages and surveillance. Joel: That's the whole thing. I don't even care what the survey said. I know it was about companies watching folks, and people are like they're reading my email. And that's great, and those surveys come out every quarter. But what I am super intrigued at is why was this released under the Simply Hired brand, which was acquired by Indeed over a year ago, and pretty much ... The site is still there. It serves Indeed ads or Indeed postings. But why in the world ... Help me figure out why did Indeed unveil a survey under the Simply Hired brand, which they should not be focused on? Chad: No clue. I don't know what their content strategy is on Simply Hired from a SEO standpoint; still trying to drive job seekers to it for some reason. I have no clue. Joel: Why not Indeed Survey? I don't understand, total mystery to me. If anyone out there knows, hit us up at chadcheese.com. Chad: Or Glassdoor. Joel: Or Glassdoor. What was interesting also was there was no date on the post. It was reported by CNBC, some major news outlets, so there was some effort to get out. There was nothing on the wire, like PR Newswire, which is usually the case. There was nothing on the site. It's a real mystery to me, and it's one of those why in the hell are they doing this, and I can't figure it out. Chad: Yeah. It's a dead brand. Why do anything to- Joel: Yeah, yeah. I don't know, dude. I don't know. It's a mystery. Help us out, listeners. Chad: Yeah. Somebody over at Indeed, why are you putting shit on Simply Hired? Joel: Writing for ERE, reputable company, Indeed usually gets back to me and let's me know what's going on. I reached out to them on this and I got nothing back. So there's some weird thing going on as to why they're doing this, and I don't know why, but it keeps me up at night, dammit. Chad: That sucks, because I won't think about this after we stop talking about it. Joel: I know. I probably won't, either. But it is very interesting. They have smart people over there. Why are they doing this? Why would they- Chad: I don't even know why they have the Simply Hired brand even up and running anymore, and why everything- Joel: Yeah. Chad: It makes no sense. Chad: If they were sneakily putting in Simply Hired postings as Simply Hired postings and did Google for Jobs to sneakily be away but in, be out but in Google for Jobs, which they're probably kind of doing with Glassdoor anyway at this point ... It's a total mystery to me. Chad: All right, whatever. Joel: Let's talk about automated scheduling. Chad: Yeah. Joel: Because I'm getting really scared about this boss watch and everything, and ages and Amazon. Chad: So GoodTime, who is a Firing Squad alum, just raised $5 million. Joel: They were the first one. No, no. Vervoe was first; they were second. Chad: They were close. They were one of the early- Chad: So yeah. $5 million, man. So what do you think about that? Seriously? Joel: The same thing I thought last year when they got $2 million, and probably the same thing I thought when we had them on Firing Squad. I think if the goal is to say let's raise some money to get our valuation up, build the product, knowing good and well that this is a feature that everyone is going to say we need to have, and or iCIMS, somebody's going to come along and say here's $30 million, give us your stuff and we're done, I'd say it's a great success. Joel: When they think in some bizarro world that they're going to build a standalone product that's going to be around in seven, eight, 10 years, I'd say good luck and this is an investment that's going to go down the toilet because they're going to get commoditized, everyone's going to have this automated scheduling thing. It seems like every week or month, someone's unveiling automated scheduling. Google's been doing it for awhile, Lever's been doing it for awhile. TextRecruit who we did- Chad: Just started. Joel: -who we did a Shred on. If you're not subscribed, you've got to subscribe to get this stuff. They've introduced automated scheduling. It's like Oprah, 'you get automated scheduling, you get automated scheduling.' And GoodTime had better build this bad boy up and sell it before it becomes worthless. Chad: It's a part of iCIMS now because of TextRecruit, so iCIMS doesn't need to buy GoodTime, right? They've got their own through an actual texting platform that does more than just schedule. So, yeah. From my standpoint, I'd like to see what the presentation is to the investors to actually get more money for this platform. Seriously, I'd like to see ... There's got to be fireworks and- Joel: There's got to be mad droppings of AI, deep learning, big data. They've got to be dropping all that stuff to get money. Because if it's simply like we'll help automate scheduling, that's not going to pan it out for the long term. Chad: And everybody's doing it or they're moving that way anyway, hence TextRecruit. So if you don't sell soon, you're just going to be one of the others who do it. And the problem is that's all you do. All these other platforms, that's a part of what they do. It's just a piece of what they do, but that's all you do. Ouch. Joel: I got nothing after that, dude. We out? Chad: We out. Ema: Hi, I'm Ema. Thanks for listening to my dad, the Chad, and his buddy Cheese. This has been the Chad & Cheese Podcast. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a single show. Be sure to check out our sponsors because their money goes to my college fund. For more, visit chadcheese.com. #Slack #Upwork #ZipRecruiter #Google #GoogleHire #Amazon #LinkedIn #SimplyHired

Teg Grenager performed incredibly well on The Chad & Cheese Firing Squad Podcast. Now it's time to Show and Tell with The Chad & Cheese's new DemoCast. #Uncommon #Programmatic #AI #MachineLearning #Video

LIVE from TAtech in Las Vegas, the boys break some news about what happened at Workopolis after Indeed acquired the company. "Drop your laptop and company property at the door on the way out." What else are those idiots talking about? - Participation certificates - clever millenials - Careerbuilder dumpster fire update - Indeed Jail update - Here's a brand, there's a brand - everyone is rebranding - Gollum visits - Anyone need sales people and developers? - BEER Enjoy. And be sure to visit this podcast's exclusive sponsor, Nexxt. PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION Chad: This, The Chad & Cheese Podcast brought to you in partnership with TA tech. TA tech, the association for talent acquisition solutions. Visit tatech.org. Chad: Okay, Joel, quick question. Joel: Yep. Chad: What happens when your phone vibrates, or your texting alert goes off? Joel: Dude, I pretty much check it immediately. I bet everyone listening is reaching to check their phones right now. Chad: Yeah, I know. I call it our Pavlovian dog reflex of text messaging. Joel: Yeah, that's probably why text messaging has a fricking 97% open rate- Chad: What?! Joel: Crazy high candidate response rate within the first hour alone. Chad: Which, are all great reasons why The Chad & Cheese Podcast love text to hire from Nexxt. Joel: Love it! Chad: Yep. That's right. Nexxt, with the double X, not the triple X. Joel: So, if you're in talent acquisition. You want true engagement and great ROI, that stands for return on investment, folks. And, because this is The Chad & Cheese Podcast, you can try your first text to hire campaign for just 25% off. Boom! Chad: Wow! So how do you get ths discount, you're asking yourself right now. Joel: Tell them, Chad. Chad: It's very simple. You go to chadcheese.com, and you click of the Nexxt logo in the sponsor area. Joel: Easy. Chad: No long URL to remember. Joel: Yeah. Chad: Just go where you know chadcheese.com, and Nexxt, with two X's. Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news. Brash opinion. And, loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls. It's time for The Chad & Cheese Podcast. Joel: Who listens to the show? Who knows who the hell we are? That's awesome. Chad: About five of you, that's good. Joel: That's awesome! Joel: So, for those that don't know, we typically start our show with shout outs. Chad: Typically, yes. Joel: And, we normally don't start with shout outs at the TA tech show, but we're going to try something new. Chad: Yeah. Joel: We could fail miserably, but we're going to try it. Chad: No, I don't think this is going to fail miserably at all, because the first shout out is going to go to- Joel: Well, tell them how it's going to work. Chad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joel: So, at the show, we do a podcast, we can't give away stuff, right. So, here today if you get a shout out, you get a beer. If you don't drink, we have Peeps. So, if you want Peeps- Chad: You can have a Peep. Joel: ... you can grab a Peep, and you can take anything from Nexxt that you want. Everybody understand? We're good? Chad: Except for Steve Kraut, because nobody wants him. Joel: And, he's already drunk, so he doesn't need anymore beer. Okay. Alright. I'm ready. I think we're ready for shout outs. Chad: Yeah. So, if you've listened to the podcast before, you know Joel hates millennials. Joel: Hate those entitled little bastards. Chad: Hates millennials, but we got a lot of them listening, and I think they just love the pain of getting through the show as Joel hates on them. Anyway, one of our- Joel: They have a sense of humor though. Chad: ... millennials- Joel: ... which, is good. Chad: Yes. One of our millennial listeners actually gave us personalized certificates of participation. Joel: We got a trophy from the millennial generation, which is very nice. So, to Kyle from Hireology- Chad: Is it Hireology? Joel: This beer and shout out is for you, my friend. Chad: Yeah. That was funny shit. That was very funny shit. Good job. Kyle: I'm actually not old enough to drink. No, I'm just kidding. Chad: You're in Vegas. Joel: This Peeps for you, baby. Chad: This Peeps for you. Kyle: Thank you. Chad: Next. Where's Thad at? Joel: Next, get it, I saw what you did there. Chad: Yeah. Where's Thad at? Thad's not here? Okay. Crowd: He's CEOing. Joel: He's CEOing. Chad: CEOing. Aw, that sucks. Joel: That's alright. We'll get him later. Well, we can embarrass him when he's not here, though. Chad: Yeah. So, he's the only CEO that I know, who does a Gollum impression, and just he loves it. Hopefully, we can get him to do a Gollum impression, like a promo for the show. Joel: Go up to Thad and say, "Can I hear your Gollum impression." Chad: And, he gets excited. Joel: Yeah. He's very into- Chad: He loves to do the- Joel: ... it. Chad: ... Gollum impression. Joel: Get your Lord of the Rings geek on with Thad the CEO ... the new CEO- Chad: New CEO. Joel: ... of the new brand, which we'll talk about later- Chad: Yes. Joel: ... of the new brand -it rhymes with kangaroo. Chad: There he is. Joel: Alright. Chad: Come on. Joel: Thad! Come on up, buddy. Chad: Come up. Hey, so we've got something for you if you agree to do- Joel: A little Gollum. Chad: ... a Gollum promo- Joel: Just a little Gollum. Chad: ... promo would you do something. [crosstalk 00:04:58] Yeah? Okay. Give him the mike. Joel: He's closer to you. Gollum, everyone. Chad: Gollum, everyone. You got to use your hands. Thad: I got to use my hands. Chad: Yeah, because you're freaking. Thad: (in Gollum voice) Yes, me precious. Yes. Do these precious candidates me wants it so sweet precious. Yes. Joel: This Guinness is for you, Thad. Thank you. Chad: He got it. Joel: Very nice. Very nice. Chad: I love it! Hey, we need you to do a Chad & Cheese promo for us, too. Joel: If that doesn't say future IPO, I don't know what does. Chad: Oh, last but not least, where's Darren from hiQ? There he is. Joel: Everyone knows they're fighting LinkedIn, right? Chad: Right. Joel: Right, in court, and their spending more money than they probably have. Chad: Public data. Joel: We think we owe them a debt of gratitude for fighting Goliath ... probably fighting for a lot of you as you stand on the sidelines. Mr. Kaplan this is for you. Darren: I appreciate it thanks. Joel: And, good luck. Darren: Thank you. Joel: You'll need it. Chad: Very good luck. Who does not feel like they're going to be impacted by a negative ruling on this? Joel: Who's a non-scraper, or relies on anything scraped- Chad: Who doesn't think they're going to get- Joel: ... previously scraped, or soon to be scraped. Chad: ... payback right? So, if you're not behind these guys, I mean get behind these guys. They really believe the future of what we do depends on these types of rulings. Joel: So, we're going to get to the show. Now, we like an active audience, so if you have questions while we're talking, comments, or just want a Guinness, and want to try your shot at it ... or, a Peep ... ask a question, be interactive. We have- Joel: Seven more, and what doesn't go out to you, comes in to our bellies, so there you go. Chad: Soon to be six, by the way. Joel: What are we talking about first rebranding? Chad: Yeah ... well, let's talk about the new CEO of DICE. Joel: Sure, we know nothing about him, but they have a new CEO. Actually, by the way, since we're in Vegas right, okay, anyone here from CareerBuilder? Oh, good. We can talk about them. Okay, et's say over under that Matt Ferguson is still CEO in twelve months. Anyone say, under? Chad: Under hands. Joel: So, everyone else says more than a year? Chad: More than a year. Joel: No one is participating, you all suck. Chad: Come on. Crowd: Two years. Joel: Two years. Okay. Chad: Two years. Joel: That's over. Over a year. Okay, one person had the balls to play the game. Thanks everybody. Okay. Dices new CEO, what do we know about him? Chad: Not much other than he's got- Joel: He's got a hell of a resume. He's a Harvard grad. Maybe Navy guy. Maybe Air force. Tech guy. Has no experience in our industry. Historically, that doesn't go very well. Chad: No. Joel: But, we'll see how it goes. Chad: Yeah. So, we were at conference earlier this week, and we went to the Dice booth, and what was the reaction from the people behind the booth. Joel: Well, there was a salesperson, and saw our name badges which is Chad & Cheese, and it was sort of hang head like oh no, Chad & Cheese- Chad: It was an oh shit. Joel: ... and she passed us over to an executive, who then pushed us off to PR. Chad: Because, we asked if we could get the new CEO on the podcast. That being said- Joel: We'll get him on. We'll get him on. Chad: Re-branding. Joel: Rebranding. Who's rebranded in the last 12 months? Chad: He got a new logo. Joel: Geez, what a bunch of active participants. Crowd: He did. Chad: Nexxt. Joel: Nexxt. Chad: Nexxt. Joel: Now, do we all know why they rebranded? Bed, Bath, and Beyond called and said here's a bucket of money, and so they sold it to them, and became Nexxt. Boy this crowd is awful, dude. Chad: Tens of millions of dollars. So, Pando, Snag, now, Talroo ... (What? Joel: You guys are really down like what the hell is going on? Was lunch that heavy? It was just a salad and a sandwich for God's sakes. Alright we will continue to talk and look at your blank faces. Okay. This is great. We're giving beer out, people. Okay. What do we think about rebranding? Anything? Chad: So, there's a shit ton of pivoting that's happening, right, and I think that's one of the reasons why we're seeing it. Any other organizations in the room other than those- Joel: They're not participating. We need to stop saying, "Will anyone vote", or say anything to us. We're just going to talk to you. Chad: Okay. Joel: So, Talroo, we know from talking to Thad from the SHRM Talent conference, is that they wanted to be more of a technology focused brand. Jobs2Careers is kind of a pigeon hole of weird jobs and careers, so they thought we'll take talent and recruitment, bam, Talroo. Makes sense right? Going to be tough to get that off ... anyway that's going to be tough for me to remember, because I think of kangaroo, or I think of something else. And then, Pando is like a panda. So, we're all sort of animals but not animals. Chad: PandoLogic. Yeah. Pandoroo. Joel: Pandaroo. That's right. Talroo merges with Pando for Taldo something. Anyway. I think a lot of it is being driven by Google, and getting into the job space, and a lot people realizing that technology is the way that we need to go. So, if you have a job search specific URL, I think, that you're starting to think about how do we rebrand ourselves, and that's at least one example ... well two examples. Real Match kind of says we're matching, and Pando says nothing, so they said it'll be programmatic. Chad: No. That was different play though, because they were in one market, and then they started to pivot to the employer side, too, right. So, they've been focusing on the vendor side, then they went toward the employer side. So that was a different play. Joel: Although Pando is making it real confusing, because they have PandoLogic, and they have PandoIQ. Chad: But, it's all Pando. Joel: And, if Terry was here, he might be able to explain it, but I can't. I don't understand it. Chad: He'd just be glaring at you right now. Joel: Yeah. Chad: But, then you take a look at Snag, which I think ... I mean, that's been an interesting change- Joel: Anyone from Snagajob here? Chad: No. Joel: No. You all know Snagajob though, right? Hourly retail, those kinds of jobs? Chad: So, I think that's one of the bigger changes. Joel: So, why did they rebrand? Chad: They rebranded, I think, mainly to get job out of their name, but to be able to show that their model was changing, and that it's not just about obviously the old world of posting. They call it the uber factor. It just makes sense for some of these jobs ... and, I think it will scale to not just the high turnover or high volume types of jobs ... but, you'll see it scale to all types of jobs, but this is the hardest problem to work on, and I think organizations like Snag, like Jobalign, like Talentify- Joel: Shiftgig. Chad: Yeah. I mean they're something. Joel: The CEO of Snagajob said to me, "Nobody wants to snag a job anymore. They want to snag a shift." Chad: A gig. Joel: They want to work for multiple companies. They want to have an uber type experience where they switch. I'm on for working. I'm off because I'm doing whatever millennials do, young people do. And then, businesses, restaurants can say I need seven waiters for tonight, who's on the platform, who's ready to go, call them in, shifts done, snag handles all the payments so the restaurant or the businesses don't have to do any of that. So, they're the most fascinating rebrand to me, because they're rebranding because they're entire business is changing and the way that people look for work in their market is changing drastically. Chad: Yeah. Joel: Say again? Crowd: Are they going roll out an app? Joel: Are they going to roll out an app? Yes. So, they are now snag.co, but you will only see it in markets that they are beta testing right now. So, if you live in Richmond, Virginia, or Washington, D.C. will be their first big market, you won't see it, but it will all be app based. Just like Uber if your familiar, when you call a car or you're a driver, it'll all be mobile app native based. Chad: So, pay through the app ... again, it's one of those situations where you don't have one job at one company, you can actually pick up gigs at multiple companies. Joel: And, they even have badges. Like they have a burger flipper badge, so if you're thing is making burgers then you'll work at Five Guys and McDonald's, whatever, you can have a badge that says I am a burger flipper. Chad: Right. Joel: So, a company, or a restaurant knows that they'll hire you and you've been approved with this badge that you're a good cook, or burger flipper. Chad: But, we're seeing a change. Overall, from job board kind of ... I guess you could say platform ... and, being able to evolve into Nexxt what was beyond to Nexxt more of a data warehouse, different types of products. Joel: It really puts the job posting thing on its head a little bit. Chad: Yeah. Joel: Because, you're not posting jobs anymore, you're just going out and hiring people that want to work shifts for a certain job. I don't know if you can do that for nurses, accountants ... pretty much anything technically I guess you could have a model like that. HR Block could say we need 50 accountants for the next three months, and come on in and we'll pay you through the app, and you don't have to be an employee. We'll see if that takes hold, but Snag is certainly putting their money on the hourly workforce being a shift based workforce going forward. Chad: All on the blockchain. No, just kidding. Just kidding. Oh, by the way- Joel: Paid with Bitcoin. Chad: ... where's by blockchain guys at? Okay. Joel: Who is was in the blockchain session? Chad: Know how to run PowerPoint. Joel: Who was annoyed by the PowerPoint not being like finished. Okay. Good. Good. Me too. Chad: Something as complicated as blockchain, make sure you do the easy stuff well like on the PowerPoint. Joel: Click here to add text. Chad: Good stuff. Joel: What else we got for this vivacious group of folks? Chad: I think they're waiting for the meat, which is CareerBuilder. Joel: Oh, CareerBuilder? Who's heard our podcast on CareerBuilder, and kind of knows what's going on at CareerBuilder, or has worked at CareerBuilder and knows what's going on at CareerBuilder, and just wants to ... Okay. Joel: So, CareerBuilder is kind of melting down. A lot of sources that I have, and Chad have, have talked to us about what's going on at CareerBuilder. For those of you who don't know, they were bought by a private equity company called Apollo Global about a year, year and a half ago I guess. They got a Groupon. Got the business at about half price. We talked about that at one of the shows. They got a good discount on the business. Joel: So, anyway, as private equities companies will do, they walk in, where's the cost, where can we cut, where can we maximize profitability, and apparently that process is happening in a pretty bad way. So, the first thing that I got wind of was a lot of executives ... like long term ... If, you're a member of headhunter.net, CareerBuilder bought them in the late 90s maybe 2000 to 2001, they had employees like Richard Castellini, Chris Foreman ... I think is another one ... no, that's not right. I'll look up the name real quick, unless you have it there. Joel: So, they're losing executives that are long time executives, or they're shifting them into other roles, which is pretty drastic, because the culture there ... if you know CareerBuilder ... it a little bit fratty. The upper level guys they kind of have an all boys club demeanor about them. A lot of them are going away, which is probably why I think Ferguson won't be there much longer. I'm sure he has a contract that says, you'll be here for this amount of time, and then, I'm assuming he'll be gone. That's my guess. I don't know for sure. Joel: The other thing that we know is that their development team ... what I've heard ... is about down to 50% of what it used to be- Chad: Who needs developers? Joel: ... and, the ones that are left are looking for a job pretty aggressively, and will be gone as soon as they get another job. So, yes, if you're looking for developers go search the Atlanta, Georgia area, which is where a lot of them are. I don't think they'll have trouble getting jobs. My guess is Apollo just doesn't really care. My guess is all the businesses that they have, that they've purchased over the years, the WorkTerras, the Broadbeans, that they'll be gone. They'll be auctioned off to the highest bidder, and they'll maximize profit with the corps business being job postings. At that point, I think they'll sell it to ... who knows? Indeed, or I don't know. Chad: Their portfolio, they have 70 different products. I think one of CareerBuilder's biggest issues over the years is they really have messaging for 70 different products. How easy is it to sell four or five different products, let alone 70, right. There has been focus from here to there, but they continue to change product names, combine products, morph them into something entirely different. I mean, just from talent acquisition friends that I talk to, I mean it's like they don't even know what's being sold. So, it's like the target is moving constantly, and messaging just sucks, marketing sucks. If that sucks, well I mean sales is going to be harder. They are very tenacious, very large sales group of what now? Like 800 or so? Joel: Oh, the sales group? So, the last round that I heard ... I think at their height, I heard about 1400 sales people. Some of you can probably confirm or deny that. The latest round of what I heard, they had 800 sales people, and the lay off was of 120. There's some really bitter mofo's from that 120. I've heard comments about these are people that bled blue and orange. They were fired by an automated message apparently. They were let go without really much care or concern. So, there are a lot of really mad sales people. Again, if you're looking for sales people, go to LinkedIn, see who's there. Even if they're still there, they probably could be looking because they're probably fearful of their job's future. Chad: Who does firing by automated messaging? Anyone in this room? Joel: It's very efficient though. Chad: Okay. I was just going to make sure that we didn't have to shoot anybody. I mean that's the dumbest shit ever, right. Seriously. What's that? [crosstalk 00:19:56]. And, bye, have a nice day, right. Joel: I mean, the President fires people through Twitter. What the hell. Speaking of firing, should we move on from CareerBuilder, and talk about Workopolis' blood bath? Chad: Not yet. Joel: Okay, we'll hold off- Chad: We're going to get there. Joel: Alright. Chad: So, the El Chapo thing, I thought was funny- Joel: Okay. Chad: ... as Hell. So, there's a minute of like [crosstalk 00:20:24]- Joel: Alright, who's the El Chapo audio from the podcast? Chad: El Chapo audio? Okay. Joel: It's pretty entertaining. Chad: Some of you. It's really funny. I mean, they're talking about President's Club- Joel: Which is an annual trip. Chad: Annual trip- Joel: That they pick to reward- Chad: Supposed to go to Cabo. Supposed to go to Cabo. And, we can't go to Cabo this year guys, sorry, because El Chapo is not there anymore. No shit. This is what he says. El Chapo is not there anymore, and the whole region is destabilized because this cat is not in the region. It's laughable. I mean, even on the recording, you can hear sales people laughing at this bullshit reasoning behind it. Joel: The delivery was pretty funny, too, not just the content. Chad: Yeah, delivery was funny. But, you talk to the coms guy, and he said they are not going to have- Joel: Yeah. So, there's some conflicting story. So, the one story is there was a company called ... with Ferguson talking about hey the annual trip is canceled this year apparently sales people were given money in return for the trip. Allegedly everyone was okay with that. I guess some of them were. Some of them weren't. Which, why the audio that we have contradicting the cancellation, and saying it was just postponed until El Chapo's dismantling of the Mexican government or whatever happens. So, it's going to happen. So, we have some real conflicting data. Anyone here from CareerBuilder or used to be at CareerBuilder that wants to confirm what happened, that's perfectly fine with me, but that's the story that I've gotten from my sources. Chad: Ridiculous. Oh, so that being said- Joel: And, they also canceled the auto allowance I've heard. Chad: Yeah. Joel: For the sales people. Apparently there was like a $5,000 auto allowance for gas, miles, whatever. And, sales people counted on that income right, $5,000 extra in income, they just axed that without any warning. I do know that they have a new COO, who I'm sure is an Apollo lackey. Chad: Yes. Joel: And, she came in and they typically give raises in July and December I believe, and they said, "Well, we got to hold off until April," Chad: Postponing. Joel: Postponing for postponing the raises. Chad: Yep. Joel: So, everyone was kind of cool for a few months. They announced the raises, and apparently they were much lower than what people had ever expected, or was sort of traditional, which led to much of the exodus ... particularly with the development team- Chad: Needless to say, morale is low- Joel: Morale is in the shitter. Chad: Who needs sales people? Who needs sales people? There's a pool out there now, right. Pool of blood. Joel: I've had multiple competitors tell me that they have CareerBuilder people in their interview process. [crosstalk 00:23:08] You might be too late at this point. Chad: I doubt it. Joel: Well. There'll be more. Chad: More rounds to come. So, yeah. Indeed jail. Joel: That's your lane. Go for it. Chad: So, we talked ... earlier this week, it was funny. Just an impromptu conversation with Tim Sackett, you know Tim Sackett he's been in the industry for a very long time on the talent acquisition side of the house, and he was thrown into Indeed jail. What does that mean? You guys probably know. Who here has been thrown into Indeed jail? Joel: For a beer, what's Indeed jail? Anyone? Chad: Anyone? Nobody knows what Indeed jail is? Joel: Yes. Chad: He know- Joel: He knows. Chad: Come on. Come get it. Come get it, because we talked about it. Joel: Tell us what Indeed jail is. Chad: Indeed jail. Joel: He's not going to say. Chad: He's not going to say. Joel: People are so scared of Indeed, like they have a bunch of mobs. Chad: [crosstalk 00:23:56] afraid of Indeed, they've already kicked you out. I mean why ... why fucking be scared. Joel: This is for you because you told us. Chad: Come on up! Joel: You don't have to say anything. I just want to give a beer away. Chad: So, anyway in this case, and I've heard many cases especially on the vendor side. Obviously they're not going to take your money anymore. Joel: Cheers. Chad: Not going to take your money anymore, because of quality issues, right. Quality issues, which means they think your jobs suck. That was the case with Tim Sackett and his company, but they said you can rectify this. He asked first, hey can I rectify this? Tell me what's wrong, we'll fix it, and then we won't have these quality problems, and they're like no we can't do that. It's almost like it's part of our algorithm- Joel: It's out of our hands. Chad: ... yeah, it's out of our hands. We can't do that. That tech says no. Unless, we do what? You pay us. Unless you pay us. Unless you sponsor. But, that's the first step to what? To getting your ass kicked out in the first place, right. So, we're seeing this with companies who are paying and in this case they are- Joel: Tim's a staffing. Chad: They're on the staffing side. So, first we saw vendors go. Staffing is definitely on their way out. And, we're also hearing from sources on the corporate side, that if you're not paying enough money, your jobs are going to go dark, which means you're going down. Joel: Yeah. So, even if you're paying, and you're okay, they want you to pay more by telling you it's the black email, right. They get an email, your jobs have gone black, or dark. Chad: Yeah. Gone dark. Joel: So, you pay more, and they'll come back to light. Indeed is doing some really crazy shit. Chad: Bring it, what do you want [crosstalk 00:25:46]. I'm just amazed. John's like how the hell- Joel: True or false. Black emails. Crowd: Not sure. Joel: Shutting off paying customers in the staffing industry. Crowd: Oh yeah. Joel: Shutting off job boards who are paying for placement. Absolutely. Thank you for confirmation. You want a beer? Crowd: Yeah. Joel: Alright. Chad: Yes. And that's legit right there. Good man. So, again, there's opportunity to be had. Joel: Thank you [crosstalk 00:26:19]. Crowd: Cheers. Joel: You are a brave man. Did you notice what he just did? Chad: I love it. Joel: Okay. Alright. Chad: I love it. So, anyway. There's dollars to be had out there, is what we're trying to say. There are engineers. There are sales people. And, there are dollars to be had out there, because there are plenty of pissed off people who have money. People who are spending 75 grand a month, 25 grand a month ... it doesn't matter I mean there's ... Yeah, I know. Exactly. I almost choked. $75,000 a month. Sorry. Joel: Did someone really tell you 75? Chad: Yes. Joel: A month? A month. Chad: A month. Sorry. Joel: Wow, okay. Chad: Last night when we had beers on the roof, I got some really good intel. When you have beer, you get good intel. So, yeah, those are some of the things that we're seeing from Indeed. So, that's an interesting shift, because they just are saying they don't want your money, and they're obviously not playing well with Google, which means their jobs are not in Google, and they're spending a shit ton of money on advertising. We saw them on the Final Four. From my standpoint, where is this sustainable. That's a lot, and most of that traffic came from where? Where's Alex at? Where'd that traffic come from, that Indeed traffic? It was a brand of traffic from Google, right? Alex: Branded terms. Chad: Branded terms. Joel: Branded terms. Chad: People were going to Google- Joel: To search Indeed. Chad: ... searching on Indeed jobs. So, what does that mean long term? It means you have to continue to spend that money to get ... because, everybody is going to go to Google in the first place. We talked about ... we do it. It's what we do. It's behavior. So, therefore, if we're going to Google, and it demonstrates with all those branded terms that people are going to Google, you're going to have to continue to pay the cash. How did that work for Monster and the blimp, and the Super Bowl ads, and shit, how'd that work? Anybody remember? Joel: He must have flown in the blimp. He's having a good time over there. Chad: Anyway, that's a lot of what we're seeing with Indeed. You want me to talk about that, or you want to go to- Joel: Also, I think it's changed the referral model. An update on that. Chad: Alright. Joel: For whatever reason, the referral model makes perfect sense, at least to me. You have a friend, they need a job, this company is looking for a job- Chad: Most people. Joel: ... to fit your skills. Hey if you refer them to use, they get a job after 90 days, we'll give you five grand. To me, that makes perfect sense. That should work. That's an affiliate marketing program that should work. Unfortunately, it does not work in our space. Some of your are old enough to remember H3, Refer.com- Chad: Jobster. Joel: Jobster, the original Jobster of the 20 business models they had while Jason Goldberg was there. Chad: $46 million. Joel: And, Indeed, two years ago launched Crowded ... or, Indeed Crowd, whatever it was- Chad: Indeed Crowd. Joel: ... which was a referral model. They emailed you jobs in your area. If you knew someone, you forwarded the job to the person. If they applied, and got the job, you got anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 I think was the height of their payment, and this past month as of May 17th, I think they're shutting it down totally. So, if Indeed can't figure out how to make a referral model work, I don't know if anyone can. However- Chad: Who's in the referral business here? Joel: ... Ladders, anyone from Ladders? Ladders has just launched their referral marketing program with payments of ten grand to paid referrals, so maybe ten grand is the lucky number and they'll make it work, but history is not on their side. Chad: Yeah. You talked to Hans. He was the CEO of H3, it came down to you can lead a horse to water. I mean, you just can't make them refer their friends to goddamn jobs. Unfortunately, that's the way it works. Nobody has been able to obviously tap that. Joel: So, if you're thinking of a referral business, don't. Yes? Crowd: Regarding referrals, I've been in the staffing business for ten years, I can tell you the problem is not money because we paid referring [inaudible 00:30:22] to, right, because you don't want to refer a friend to another bad friend or bad entrepreneur or bad ... you know so there is referral within recruiting, to recruiters, {inaudible} Chad: Right. Crowd: But, I think in the self serve job [inaudible 00:30:35] space, you're really looking at who are you referring [inaudible 00:30:41] and what's going to happen. That's why you really can't figure it out. Chad: So, trust, essentially. Joel: Was that a question or just a comment? Crowd: It's a comment slash question. I'm getting back to that. How do we raise the trust on job seeker? Chad: Good question. Come get your beer. Joel: I think it's tough like if you have a friend who's single, you know what they look like, you kind of know if they're fun or whatever, and you know they're a single person ... like there's a level of trust that you say, you'll get along with them. In jobs, oh I know if you're an accountant, but I don't know if you're a good accountant. Chad: A date could last one night though. That's the short term job is something different. Not to mention, a lot of these platforms expect non-recruiters to get in the system, and actually work the system. And, we've got other shit to do. That's just not going to happen. [crosstalk 00:31:38] let's crowd source this. Joel: It doesn't scale very well either. You got to wait 90 days. I mean the tracking of a human being has to be involved with sort of the quality of the candidate, and I mean it's just a bad ... It obviously doesn't work. I don't know why exactly. It technically should but it doesn't, and my guess is that Ladders will close up their thing in a year or two, and someone else will try it. Chad: How many pivots has The Ladders been through? They're still doing a ton of content. They're adding this. Joel: They're doing the TMZ thing. So, if you to The Ladders on their new section, they literally have a journal ... they have a team of journalists that write articles that are sort of TMZ-ish, but they're for the recruitment space or for job posting. Chad: Which you like. Joel: Well, it's content. I mean, look, for many years you guys had job postings which served as content, which served as traffic from Google, right. Chad: Yeah. Joel: Google would index this stuff, people could find it, and there's traffic. So, Google for jobs launches and that goes away, right, so you have to find a way to get content that people will continue to go to your site and hopefully click on jobs, and apply to jobs. So The Ladder strategy was simply, let's hire actual journalists to write stories about jobs and careers, and what knot. And, they TMZ it a little bit so people share it, it gets viral, hopefully get it from that. I think it works. I think it's super expensive to have a team of journalists writing good copy, original copy, but for The Ladders that is their strategy currently. Chad: Does anybody have content ... I mean just driving your own content ... other than jobs? No. No. Bueller. Bueller. Crowd: Yeah, we had podcasts and other content. Joel: Podcasts are great content. Chad: Amazing. Especially if you do transcripts. That's very smart. Joel: Yes. Crowd: Yes, we have a podcast. We do transcripts. We do six events a year, and we have website articles about job hunting [inaudible 00:33:35]. Joel: And, are those good traffic drivers from Google? Crowd: They are. They are big, big factors in growing our audience. And, the podcast ... you and I were talking about this last night, and the unexpected benefit where original job for it ... it created a national audience for us. 85% of the downloads from the podcast come from out of state- Joel: So, you've been around a while. Is it fair to say that the traffic that job postings used to create has sort of faded, and you've been replacing that with stuff like content, original content? Crowd: The content supplements the job posting. Job seekers ... they're drawn by the ... well, the newsletter of job postings that drives them to the site, and the jobs themselves. Joel: How important is email to the business? Crowd: Really important. Joel: Do you send out- Crowd: It's our second source of traffic after organic. We collect referrals. We've got a weekly newsletter. Joel: Yeah. Email for a lot of job sites has taken the place of [crosstalk 00:34:27] it's like how many emails can we send out and generate buying lists, et cetera. Chad: Workopolis. Joel: Workopolis? Any Canadians in the room? Chad: I don't think Thunder Bay counts. Joel: So, you know Workopolis. Chad: I don't think Thunder Bay counts. [crosstalk 00:34:49]. Just so everybody knows, beer is provided by JobAdX. Joel: And, the Peeps too. Chad: And, the Peeps. Joel: Don't forget the Peeps. Chad: And the Peeps. Joel: So, Indeed acquired Workopolis recently. Workopolis is a pretty well known Canadian job site. Is that fair to say, well known. It was sort of a mystery to me as to why they did it. Some information has come to light is as to why, it seems to be a little bit of a competitive thing. The word is that there was at least one other Indeed competitor vying for Workopolis [crosstalk 00:35:27] that Indeed did not want. Well, we don't exactly know. Chad: We don't know. Joel: Sources tell us Zip Recruiter was probably in the bidding. It makes a lot of sense for Indeed not to want Zip Recruiter- Chad: Look at him smiling. He is smiling his ass off. He's like yeah. You're right. You know it. No comment. You didn't have to comment. I saw that smile from way over here. Joel: Sources say that ... and, it does make a lot of sense. Chad: Come get a beer, Matt. Joel: Or, a Peep. Chad: Or, a Peep. Joel: So, yeah. The sad story about this is there were about 50 Workopolis employees apparently that went into work. They kind of knew something was up, but they were given their walking papers that same day. Apparently there was actually a lot of employees to get their packet of bye-bye information. They were given some bit of a severance. I think it was three weeks for every year- Chad: From what we hear it was definitely fair. It's just how it was done was just ... it was very interesting. It was an all hands meeting. Alright, everybody come in. We've got a new owner right. We've got a new master, so everybody's coming in kind of unsure, on pins and needles- Joel: This is Linda from Indeed. Chad: Yeah. From my understanding, Indeed didn't even show up. It was just done- Joel: Oh, nice. Chad: It was done right there- Joel: Not even a video conference. Chad: Nope. Nope. Well, why? I mean, you just bought somebody, hey you go fire your people. [crosstalk 00:36:49]. They didn't send an automated message. That's exactly right. Joel: What's better no message, or an automated message? Okay. Chad: Yeah. Exactly. They're never really good, but still. Anyway it was pretty much on your way out of the door, we're going to be collecting your laptops, your badges, your whatever the Hell. It was right then, and I can't imagine the shell shock that some of those employees still have. Chad: So, if you're in the Canadian market, obviously there are some very good people that used to work for Workopolis. Joel: My own speculation is Google for jobs is not in Canada yet, and this was also partly a way to build the motor around Canada as well as they could by not letting Zip or whoever else into the market place. Chad: Yeah, I think it was more of a defensive measure on Zip. I don't see them fending off [crosstalk 00:37:44]. Joel: And Indeed or Google. There might have been a little bit of that. Google's going to get into Canada. Chad: Oh, yeah. They're going to be launching in Canada probably ... from what we hear ... in the next couple of weeks. So, Google for jobs in Canada supposed to launch in the next couple of weeks. Joel: Will they have a two pane job search? Chad: Oh, Jesus. Where's are Indeed guy? Joel: He left. He's out. Chad: What the hell is up with that two pane job search bull shit? So, Monster is doing the same thing. I think we did ... maybe the clarification will come through. We believe, or at least we thought at first, that they were actually doing payments ... for all their PPC stuff ... it was going to happen on the apply click, which makes sense, because again you're sending the job seeker there, so you have an opportunity to actually acquire that job seeker, because it left the site- Joel: Everyone understand two pane search? Yeah, kind of, sort of. Chad: Yeah. Joel: Basically instead of like ... Indeed used to click a link and then you go to the job site of that job and then you probably stay there, you might go back to Indeed. Two pane is you stay on Indeed, they open up a separate window on Indeed and you just click through and see the jobs on the second pane- Chad: Which is very cool from a user standpoint, because you can really flip through jobs. I mean, you can pop, pop, pop, pop. I mean really get through it really quick- Joel: And, it's great for a pay per click business, because you can knock out those clicks real fast. Chad: So, Indeed, we know ... there's the pay per click is happening, and they're getting a shit ton more clicks and go figure ... what we hear is revenue is up ... I mean yeah, because it's much easier, which is not a bad thing on the candidate side, but for the employer who is trying to acquire candidates ... and, maybe that person is not perfect for that job. That's well and good. It should be my option, as an employer, to be able to pull that person in, and prospectively push them to another job, or at least invite them to apply to another job. That's my candidate. I'm paying money. Give me my goddamn candidate. That's not happening on Indeed. We're not sure just yet, we're looking for verification from the people over at Monster. And, Monster ... I mean, to be quite frank ... they've been very transparent about what they're doing. Sometimes, you know, it's not easy trying to get information out of people. Joel: It is a whole new Monster. We give them credit for that. Chad: Yeah. It is a whole new Monster. It's definitely a whole new Monster. Joel: Questions? Two more minutes? Anybody want a beer? Chad: Got two more beers. Joel: Got four beers left. Chad: Ask a question. Come on. Joel: And, a bunch of Peeps for questions- Chad: [crosstalk 00:40:16] I want a beer, I'm just not going to ask a question. Joel: ... comments. Chad: I'm going to go up in front of this crowd. This is bullshit. Okay. Joel: Question about AI automation, chat bots, so any major player. Chad: One of the funny things actually said earlier today- Joel: Start ups we like. Anything. Chad: ... was John, when John said, "What's the scariest page on the internet?" And, he popped up Google for jobs right. Joel: That's actually Chad's LinkedIn profile. Chad: Google for jobs. Wait a minute, my wife is on there. That's not cool. Joel: She's on your LinkedIn profile? Chad: Yeah. Joel: That's weak. Chad: I mean she's better looking than I am. Joel: That's weak. Chad: What's that? Joel: Brass rings- [crosstalk 00:41:02] is the scariest page on the internet. Chad: Oh, is the scariest thing. That's a good call. Joel: Any questions, comments. Chad: Any intel? Joel: This is Vegas, folks. Nothing. Peter: Okay, you guys had your chance. Let's have a round of applause for Chad & Cheese. Chad: Okay, okay. Before we go. Remember, when I asked you about the whole reflex and check your text messages thing? Joel: Yeah, you know all about reflexes. And, then I brilliantly tied it to text messages 97% open rate, then I elegantly tied it to a better experience for your candidates. Don't laugh, Chad, I can be elegant. Chad: Whatever, man. I know it's redundant. You already heard about text to hire, but you're still not using text to hire from Nexxt. Joel: What?! Chad: I know, man. Joel: Come on, man. Chad: Since advertising takes repetition to soak in, I just thought I'd remind you again, this was all by elegant design. It's all about text to hire, and it's all about Nexxt. Joel: And, elegant design. So, go to chadcheese.com, click on the Nexxt logo, and get 25 ... yeah, I said 25% off your first text to hire campaign. Chad: Whoo! Joel: Engage better. Use text to hire from Nexxt. Two X's. Chad: Boo-yah! Chad: Thanks to our partners at TA tech. The Association for Talent Acquisition solutions. Remember to visit tatech.org. Chad: This has been The Chad & Cheese Podcast. Subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts, so you don't miss a single show. And, be sure to check out our sponsors because they make it all possible. For more visit chadcheese.com. Oh, yeah, you're welcome. #TATech #Careerbuilder #Workopolis #Indeed #Millenials #Talroo #Jobs2Careers #JobAdX #Nexxt #LIVE

It's Valentine's Day week which means you can hear Barry White and feel the love in the air, even on The Chad & Cheese Podcast. This week: We start with a Google Love Trifecta! 1) Google for Jobs embraces its Latin lover 2) TMP loves sharing Google for Jobs stats 3) Is GoogleHire loving on AI resume search? Yes there's more LOVE... - HackerRank has 30 million new ways to find a lover and kill DICE - Why Nexxt fell out of love with Beyond.com - Unilever breaks up with Facebook and YouTube - Home Depot says loving yourself is best, it's all about Self Service ... plus more banter and snark than you can probably handle. Enjoy. And show our sponsors some love while you're at it. America's Job Exchange, Sovren, Ratedly and Catch 22 Consulting are single and ready to mingle ... with customers, baby! Oh, behave! Don't forget to register for TAtech Europe with the discount code TATECHTEN18 PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls; it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast. Joel: Are you ready to feel the love? Chad: Oh yeah. Joel: Welcome to our Valentine's Day week show. This is the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman. Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash. Joel: On this week's episode, Google for Jobs snuggles up with a Latin lover. Chad: Oh yeah. Joel: We undressed why Beyond really changed it's name to Nexxt. And Home Depot tells job seekers to, "love yo damn self." It's warm and fuzzy time, folks. Get ready. Chad: Self love. Joel: But first, a little foreplay from our sponsor. Sponsor: Google, Lever, Entelo, Monster, Jibe. What do these companies and hundreds of others have in common? They all use Sovren technology. Some use our software to help people find the perfect job, while others use our technology to help companies find the perfect candidate. Sovren has been the global leader in recruitment intelligence software since 1996 and we can help improve your hiring process too. We'd love to help you make a perfect match. Visit Sovren.com, S-O-V-R-E-N.com, for a free demo. Joel: Beautiful, I'm just realizing that our shout outs are kind of angry ... Not very loving. So I don't ... Maybe this is love ... We're doing love the Chad and Cheese way. Chad: Love the Chad and Cheese way. Yeah, right out of the gate ... This isn't mean. My humble apologies goes to Nancy in Philly because, apparently, she blindingly devoted herself to Team Chad well before Ed did. And she actually showed me screenshot evidence. So Nancy, please accept my humble apologies. Not to mention also ... And she had a good question for you, Joel. Joel: Yeah? Chad: You saw that Gr8 People was funded this week and a good amount of it actually came from the Randstad Innovation Fund. Her question is, do you think Monster will play a role in Gr8 People? Because of that connection with Randstad? Joel: I think companies buy other companies to integrate other companies or kill companies or just loot the talent and yeah. And just walk away. I think in his case, although I'm not an expert on Gr8 People, the GR8 is awful, by the way ... It's like Jobg8's ugly sister. I don't have much of an opinion. You're a former employee of two of those companies. You probably have a much more insightful opinion than I do. Chad: I would say I probably do, I don't know that it's right. But yeah, I think Monster right now has enough problems of their own and they're focusing on the technology at hand, just at Monster, versus thinking about Gr8 People. I mean, I think there ae some good perspective plays that happened there, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon because Monster has to get their shit together. Hopefully, they'll get good co-presidents on board soon, we can only hope. Joel: Word. Chad: I really don't think that, right now, they can be that strategic because they have a ton of development that they have to before they can get their own products up and running and get in the snuff before they can start to look at Gr8 People, which is more of an applicant tracking system, CRM, Drip Campaign kind of. You know, it's got so much that's actually out there. And it's from the founders of Virtual Edge who sold to ADP. So, it's pretty stout product from my understanding. Bad URL, but fairly stout product. Joel: Monster's in that sort of ... You know when the oxygen drops in the airplane when you're going down and you give yourself the oxygen first before you worry about anyone else. That's kind of where Monster is right now. They need to oxygenate themselves first. Chad: That is awesome, that is awesome. Joel: Thank you, thank you. Chad: So there's your answer, Nancy. And that being said, 'cause I gotta continue to give Philly love, Ed says to Joel Cheesman, 100% that he's that shallow for choosing Team Chad and he also liked the Eli OBJ Dirty Dancing skit as his favorite commercial as well. So, as I had said before, very, very symbiotic .. me and the commercial. : You and your cronies mean nothing to me, okay my friend? Because ... A lot ... As we found, a lot of this love is not very deep. I got a big ... I got a couple, 'come on, man's this week. Chad: Yeah, we do, we do. Joel: So, we get this, I get this LinkedIn message from Remy Jung. It's J-U-N-G. Maybe it's Jung or Jong or Ung. We don't know. I won't mention the company, but he sends me a message that's very nice. Joel: So Chad and I have this private Facebook group where we share show ideas, so I shared this message from Remy and said, "Hey, this is a really nice message." Took a screenshot of the message he sent me on LinkedIn. Well, Chad turns around and sends me the same screenshot, but from his account. So, basically all Remy did was copy and paste the same message and just put my name or whatever, something to me. And then it was like, okay, well, I feel special not at all now. Joel: And then, David Zanesky from Monster, I will name him because we named him last week, loving on him a lot. He sends me a message, and I go, "Dude, please tell me David did not send you the same message." And he's like, "Yup, he did." Chad: He totally did. Joel: Okay, so you guys suck, but a lesson for sales or relationships or networking, don't just copy and paste when the two dudes that you're sending it, are doing a podcast together because there's a good chance they might be sharing that information with each other and then calling you out on the podcast, like I have. Chad: Joel had one comment after I shared my screenshot, "What a dick". I thought it was awesome. Remmie, David, come on guys. We love you, we love you. You can do better, you can do better. Joel: They look like millennials. This is such a millennial thing, like, I'm just gonna copy and paste the same message and send it to 100 friends and I've done my job. No, customize the message. Alright, moving on. Chad: Okay, so William Golden gets a #ChadCheese shout out. He's been listening for weeks, months. Thanks William. Also, Steven O'Donnell. Our Scottish game has doubled, I think, in the past few weeks. And Steven says ... I think this is awesome ... "I had seriously expected to dislike Chad ad Cheese, but heard it for the first time last night and it was excellent." That shit's funny. Joel: I think most people expect to hate this show when they first, you know, so. Chad: Yeah, it's funny. Joel: For whatever reason, if we can turn haters into lovers, that's a good thing. But yes, we are big in the Glasgow, Scotland area. And I'll send a quick shout out to Adam Gordon ... Chad: Oh yeah! Joel: ... from Canada.id and if you haven't heard the firing squad of their company, I highly recommend it. Although, I'm biased; it's our show. But, shout out to Adam. We appreciate it. And hopefully we'll see him in Dublin, or somebody from CanadaID in Dublin, 'cause we'll be there in about a month from now. Chad: Yeah, some pretty cool tech, pretty cool tech. Joel: Yeah, with TAtech ten, spelled out T-E-N, 18 for a 15% discount if you still have- Chad: So yeah, I made it easy. Go to chadcheese.com. There's a banner there for TAtech Europe and the actual discount code is below it. So all you have to do is copy the discount code, click on the banner, go to the ... It's done for you, man. I made it too damn easy. I'm not going through the whole WiFI password thing anymore. Joel: WiFi password? What the hell are you talking about? Chad: That's what the Tatech discount code [crosstalk 00:08:46] feels like a WiFI password. Joel: Oh, gotcha. Like, the 28 string password ... Gotcha. I'm with ya, I'm with ya. Sorry about that. Joel: Okay, shout out to the Job Board Doctor, probably our most loyal, longterm listener. Chad: Yup. Joel: He says we should talk more about how staffing firms hate Indeed Prime, Indeed staffing are, I guess, or product. So yeah, Job Board Doctor, you're probably right. We should talk more about that, and by the way, if you are in the staffing business ... If you wanna send us a note, go to chadcheese.com. Let us know how much you hate Indeed taking your money. We wanna hear from you. Chad: Yeah, staffing companies, I mean, we actually had last week's episode ... They were talking about how there was no way they were gonna give Monster their money because of Randstat ... They were gonna buy Randstat. What about Indeed? I mean their own buy, Recruit Holdings, who obviously has recruiting in their portfolio, not to mention Indeed Prime. So I mean, you're gettin' stepped on all over the place. So I think it's really hard to pick and choose as you move forward. You just have to focus on ROI. Joel: Isn't it the snake that eats it's tail and then it just dies because it's eating itself. Yeah, that's what it feels like. Anyway ... that's all the shout outs I got. You got anybody else? Chad: Matt Durney, apparently Indeed loves us in Europe. We got a tweet as he was in transit to Doha. I haven't heard a damn thing from the U.S. offices, but Europe loves us, so that's awesome. Joel: Well, that's good. Yeah, the U.S. doesn't hate us. They reached out to me this week. They have reached, apparently, 250,000,000 visitors per month on their job board. That's pretty amazing. Ten years ago, it was around 15,000,000 and they've increased that exponentially. So, you know, good for them. Chad: With all the gouging they've done with pricing lately, they better have something to show for goodness sake. So, yeah, I would expect some shit like that, right? Joel: You're such a hater man, such a hater. Do you sleep with one eye open? Because ... Chad: No, I'm not scared of- Joel: I mean, maybe the Indeed mafia's gonna show up ... Chad: I'm not scared of ... Okay- Joel: I'm not scurred. Chad: So, last but not least, I've gotta say, I've gotta say, Soda Stream reached out and last week, we gave them a hard time. They did an amazing ad and then it just kind of fizzled because they didn't do some kind of execution pieces right. So first and foremost, props to Soda Stream. No, no, no ... Props to Soda Stream for adding careers link to their website. I know, I can't believe I'm saying it either. Especially after a ton of cash got me excited to join the revolution. And then I didn't know how to join the god damn revolution. So they actually added a careers link to the bottom of their website. Joel: Corporate, corporate site? Chad: Yeah, yup, yup, yup. Joel: Well, if I had the firing squad fake clap loaded up, I would play it right now. That is ... I don't know if it's a good, great thing that a company of that size is finally putting careers link on their website. But hey, here we go 'cause I got it and you're excited about it and I know you're drinking from the Soda Stream right now. Chad: And last, but not least, wait a minute, Disability Solutions, Disability Solutions, if you go to chadcheese.com, you'll notice all of our podcasts, at least over the last three, four months or so, have been transcribed. So, that's all through a sponsorship with Disability Solutions. Thank you Disability Solutions for that sponsorship because everyone, even the hard of hearing, deserves to partake in the stupid shit we way. Everyone! Joel: Yes, yes. Stupidity should not be a right of just the able people. Alright, can we move on to the show now? As we've hit the 13 minute mark on this damn thing. Joel: Alright, Google is just continuing it's world domination of the employment space. SO, we've got a myriad of Google stuff to talk about. Which one do you want to start with? Chad: Let's go with the TMP piece that you found. Joel: Okay, so TMP, for those who don't know, is an agency that has a lot of media buying and management of companies' stuff. They're putting together, and have had put together, I guess ... They are doing a webinar next week, but they have put together a teaser of some of the information that they're finding out about Google for Jobs and how it's impacting user behavior. Joel: I wouldn't say there's anything mind-blowing in this. It's kind of stuff we thought would happen, like fewer people are going to the Corporate site because they can get the whole job on Google; the can quickly get it all on Google. But, one of the things that I think both of us found interesting was that 38 ... So, of new job seekers landing on job-level page, so they're going to the job site as opposed to like the homepage or like an intro employment branding page. So, it went up from 38% to 50%, so more new job seekers are landing on job-level pages in their job search queries, which is a good thing. I think ultimately Google wants you to have less steps to accomplish what you wanna accomplish. And it look's like 38 to 50%, they're starting to do that. Chad: Well, if you don't know who TMP is, you should flog yourself at this point. They're only, I think, the biggest advertising agency in the recruitment space. Joel: Hey, we have some newbies in the audience, man. I mean, they don't know. Chad: So, they should still flog themselves. Chad: So, I think the apply click behavior was huge. S0 since Google for Jobs launched, 35% of the job seekers clicked the apply button and that was a 20% jump. I mean that's huge, right? So being able to be better connected to job seekers, to jobs around them, and get to more relevant jobs, that's really the mission of Google Jobs. Instead of just throwing links out there, that send you to indiscriminate pages that are amazingly SCOed, right? They're actually focusing on delivering jobs that are relevant to your search quires. Joel: What I'd love to know, and I don't if TMP has this data, but I'll just go ahead and put it out there in case they do. I wanna know which job boards, because we know that when you search for a job, it'll show you all the places you can apply. So you can go CareerBuilder, Monster ... Whatever the job is. I wanna know which job board ranks the highest and in order from up to down of which ones are the most preferred by job seekers. Chad: So, shout out to Chris Grosso over at TMP man, I know you have your fingers in lot of data. If you have that data, my friend, let's share it with the world 'cause that's good stuff. Joel: Let's get him on the show. Chad: Oh, god yeah. Love Chris. Joel: We'll learn more. Oh, actually, he doesn't wanna come on, right? 'Cause of some corporate thing? Or he doesn't want to embarrass the TMP brand. Chad: I think if anybody could give TMP a wonderful, polished brand, there's no one better that Mr. Chris Grosso. Joel: That's probably true. Joel: Alright, so good information coming out. I'll add the news that Google for Jobs is open for be business in Latin America. Our friends in ... Wow. Chad: Lalalalalala. Joel: Oh my god. Now the real mafia is gonna come visit us. Not the Indeed mafia. Joel: Alright, anyway. So yeah, I think Mexico all the way down in terms of pretty much everywhere in Latin America ... If you search for a job now on Google you're gonna see ... Basically what you see for jobs in the U.S., North America, you see in Latin America. So, clearly to me, this says Google's kind of serious about this whole thing. The initial tests in the U.S have gone well. They're starting to roll this thing globally. Was it you that said Europe is a little bit scary. They're a little bit hesitant probably to unveil this in Europe because of the privacy laws? Chad: Yeah, 'cause of being sued and monopolies and ... That's why I think the switch in how they're serving up jobs and how you can apply to jobs is such a differentiator because instead of just providing jobs from companies from the corporate applicant tracking systems. They're doing this myriad kind of effect that the job seeker can do whatever the wanna go do. Wherever they wanna go through, if the wanna go to the applicant tracking system, if they wanna go to Glassdoor, if they wanna go to Indeed ... Well, they can't go to Indeed because they don't have their jobs there. But anyways, they have the pick, right? So there's not this whole monopoly thing going on and they're really feeding more traffic back into the market, right? So, I think smartly, very smart fr them, and a lot of this I think i coming from the lawsuits that are happening in the U.K. Joel: Yeah, I'm not sure what conclusion you came up with there. But yeah, Latin America, Google for Jobs. Have fun with that. Chad: It's the process. Joel: And lastly, you love this, resume search, AI. All the kids are doing it. Chad: Yeah, all the kids are doing it. So, apparently, OnGig, they posted the seven reasons why Google Hire is kicking ass and taking names. And I mean that's really more like a propaganda piece for OnGig to get out there. Joel: I was gonna say, we have debated that, and Google for Hire has some issues. Chad: Yeah. Joel: And we'll talk to Bogomil in Dublin over a few Guinness's and find out what's going on. But yes, their search, you really love this part. Chad: Yeah, number five was resume search's AI based. So, thus far, we know that the Google for Jobs, or the Google Jobs Discovery API has been there. We know that CareerBoard is using it. We know that Jibe is using it. We know that the companies are actually using it. And we know that it's giving much better contextualized type of search-based results which is awesome and that's exactly what the job seekers want and need. THey need more relevant job search. Chad: Now, we've been talking about ... and this is for months, when Google started coming out with this, that they're going to flip this and they're going to start doing AI search, machine based search for resumes. And that's what OnGig is saying here. They've been in the system; they're doing resume search and it feels like the same kind of API is happening, but it's just for resume. So that's pretty amazing. Joel: So one could guess that API for searching resumes is around the corner? Chad: I wouldn't count it out, that's for sure. I don't know 100%, but if I was a betting man, I would say hell yeah. 'Cause it just makes a hell of a lot of sense. And for companies like iCims ... So iCims is using the Google search for jobs. Google does search better than anybody, so why the hell wouldn't you use Google for resume searching as well? So, I think it just makes a hell of a lot of sense. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's unveiling in the coming months. Joel: Yup, iCims and Early Doctor, Career Builder, ZipRecruiter... I wouldn't be surprised to see it on their backend stuff. So yeah, that's a good analysis by us. I think that's something we can expect in the future. Chad: Agreed. Joel: Ready to move on? Chad: I am. Joel: Dice is fucked still. Their stock is not going up as they search fo a CEO and a buyer for the company, so things are still pretty bad there. So HackerRank, something Dice should have been 5 years ago, or before that, just got $39 of investment money and they continue to rise and Dice continues to fall. It's a real, it's a real sad story. Chad: It's ... yeah. Joel: It's a real tragedy. Chad: It's a real Shakespearean tragedy. Yeah, HackerRank is the reason why Dice is dead. I mean, even if DIce ... If they don't know they're dead yet- Joel: GitHub, I mean, there's a few of them, but yeah. Chad: Well, I mean ... Joel: Yeah, no doubt. Chad: I mean this is really the silver bullet right here, this puts them out of their misery. The thing that gets me is that Dice actually partnered with HackerRank. And it's interesting because I think, just from a parasitic standpoint, you know, to be able to try to drive all the candidates that are going to Dice into HackerRank makes a hell of a lot of sense. Because the way that the system works, you practice coding, you compete, and then you actually go through and find jobs. And that's a great way for companies to actually find candidates and their slogan, which is pretty cool, is to make the world flat, which means it shouldn't matter where you're located, what school you went to, what, you know, religion or you know, gender or any of that stuff. If you can code, you can code. It's more of a faceless skills-based process. And I think that is genius as we take a look at trying to hire into the future. Joel: I believe the educated among us like to call that Ameritocracy, if I'm not mistaken. Chad: Possibly. Joel: Based on your skill level is how you will be judged around the world. And HackerRank has tapped into whatever the psyche is of a developer, they have a underlying competitiveness that I think a lot of people don't think about. HackerRank has definiely tapped into that. I forget the company that we talked about a few weeks ago that is trying to do that with salespeople ... is trying to tap into that as well. And congrats to HackerRank and GitHub as well, the sharing economy, the open source projects that are out there. The tech recruiting space is such an interesting area. And it's really kind of unfortunate that Dice couldn't see the forest through the trees, I guess, and missed a lot of opportunities around this recruiting area. Chad: Yeah, they're dead in the water. Joel: Alright, let's hear a quick ad from our buddies at America's Job Exchange and talk about self-service at Home Depot's recruiting department. Chad: Love self-service. Sponsor: America's Job Exchange is celebrating our 10th year as an industry leader in diversity recruitment and OFCCP complIANCE. We've been helping our 1,000 plus customers comply with OFCCP regulations that directly positive and effective diversity recruitment designed to attract and convert veterans, individuals with disabilities, women, and minorities and empower employers to pursue and track active outreach with their local community-based organizations. Want to learn more? Call us at 866-926-6284 or visit us at www.americasjobexchange.com. Chad: Love it. Joel: I just love self-service, Chad. Chad: I know you do. Joel: Grocery shopping, gas ... I do a lot by myself. Joel: Anyway, Home Depot is taking self serve to a whole new level. A story came out today actually, on the wires. THey're essentially, by pre-screening candidates, et cetera ... If they pass the pre-screening, they can self-schedule an interview at the company. And what's funny is ... So, for the audience, Chad and I were talking about this and you're like, "Oh, that's really cool." And I said something like, "It's automation, baby!" And you said, "It's not that automated, actually." And I said, "It is for the employers." And you said, "But not for the candidates." And I said, "Well, who cares about them?" So basically- Chad: That was all you said. Joel: That's basically the mentality among companies. Anyway, but yes, I think this is really cool. So instead of the old, you know, like ... Most people currently, they go through an interview and well, when can you come in? And they apply. And like the whole process. Just let the job seekers decide, you know, when they wanna come in. And then have someone on the recruiting side, "Oh, well we'll be here from 12:00-5:00pm." Pick a time for ten minutes and then let them decide it. And I think it even takes out the whole chat bot, like when can you come in, it sort of piggybacks on that, but sort of gives the job seeker more control, I don't know. Chad: Yeah, I think that they're doing a good job; there's no question. They're kind of tippy-toeing into this, but it's good. They first started with text apply, so they've got like a 15 minute application process now that you can actually text to apply and they saw a 50% increase in candidates looking for jobs because the types of individuals that they're looking for are text driven. Chad: Now we've seen ... Now this is interview scheduling, which is obviously that next step. And we've seen products like GoodTime.io, which is another firing squad that we had. But there are other platforms that are out there that really pull this together in a very nice package that are specifically focused on the Home Depots of the world. So the Talentifys, the Jobaligns ... And then we also talked about Cealo and their high volume program. Chad: So I mean, Home Depot, they're stepping into it slowly ... I appreciate that they're stepping into it at all, but there're platforms that are out there that will do this for them if they just embraced it, but you know, they're slow to embrace it, but they are embracing it. And I've gotta give Home Depot kudos for that. Joel: They're hiring 80,000 spring workers. Chad: Yeah, I know man. Joel: ... for the season. So if you stop to think about the time they're saving by letting the candidate self-schedule, it's gotta be huge. It's gotta be millions of dollars that they're saving. So, if you are a high frequency hiring company for seasonal whatever ... If you're not getting on the automation train, you're way behind. Chad: And it makes no sense, especially for these types of positions ... You can cut out so much administrative work from the apply standpoint, from the interview scheduling standpoint, from the actual interview ... Remember, we were at Canvas just a few weeks ago talking about text interviewing. And then hone it with the one-time voice interviewing. So there are so many awesome technologies that are out there that you can leverage to make this easier on yourself and your hiring managers and so on and so forth. And again, the Jobaligns or the Talentifys ... There are already platforms that are there to be able to help you do high volume stuff. So it's there, man. You just gotta go get it. Joel: Look at you name dropping, like you're a Hollywood agent dropping Hollywood stars' names. Love it. Chad: They gotta know that they're out there. If we don't tell them who to go see, you know what they'll do? Nothing! Joel: You know what? We are the start-ups' best friend because we're letting ... You know, we've got a firing squad. Who else does that? Who else is mentioning these guys in shout outs. Like come on, no one loves the start ups like us. So, there you go. Chad: We love start ups. Joel: So let's talk about a multi-billion dollar company, Unilever, and multi-billion dollar advertising platforms, Google and Facebook, for our next little sidebar in podcast. So you got a story from Unilever that you found really interesting, so what's up? Chad: Okay, so the big byline here is Unilever spends 9 billion dollars, over 9 billion dollars in advertising. They have a shit-ton of products. They own a shit-ton of companies and they're pretty much telling Facebook and Google, blatantly, you can't fuck off because ... Here's the quote from their CMO, "We cannot continue to prop up a digital supply chain, which at times, is little better than a swamp in terms of transparency." Joel: Ouch. Chad: That's from the CMO of Unilever. Yeah, talking to Google, talking to Facebook ... Facebook really had better get their shit together. We see on the job side that it feels really disjointed, but their entire platform, their entire ecosystem right now is just, it's wrought with shit unfortunately. Joel: Ouch. Chad: It is. Joel: So, essentially, Unilever, who makes soaps and a bunch of other consumer products, don't want their products to be beside fake news, videos of ... A lot of stuff has come out recently ... I guess there was this YouTuber who makes a lot of money talking about suicide ... video, and there's this sort of cesspool of all this sort of user-generated crap that is ... Unilever is taking it's ball and going home. Joel: Unilever is not a small advertiser at all. Now, they can't ignore digital advertising. And I think ... One of the things I continue to be interested in is sort of this voice-assistant technology. I kind of poo-pooed it initially, but I find myself using it more and more. You know, Apple's HomePod recently was released to the consumers. We use Google Home at our place. I know you do as well, but you know ... And I tend to look at things as a marketer. And I think, man, I could ... If I had Alexa and, you know, we use Amazon a lot, right? So if I tell Amazon, "Hey Amazon, order detergent, laundry detergent", right? Chad: Yup. Joel: Think about ... If you go to Google today and you search laundry detergent, right, there's like five, seven, eight, ten ads on that keyword. Like how valuable is it to be that laundry detergent that people buy when they say, "Hey Alexa, renew my ... or get me some more laundry detergent", or "I need more dish washing soap", or "I need more whatever". Right? Joel: So to me, maybe Unilever is really ahead of the curve here in saying, look, the digital opportunities are going to expand way beyond keyword search and newsfeed on Facebook. Chad: Yup. Joel: So, that's kind of what I was thinking when I heard the story. They can't ignore digital advertising, but what are they gonna do aside from that? Snapchat is no better in terms of curated ... I mean- Chad: No, no. Joel: And that's curated, I guess they could move more stuff over to Snap. Twitter is kind of the same cesspool, I don't know- Chad: Horrible. Joel: ... how you would get beyond that. But yeah, this is an interesting story and I'll be very interested to see how Unilever moves forward with advertising on digital platforms. Chad: Yeah, no, I will too. And I agree. I've been a huge proponent of voice technology. I mean, most of the texts that I send ... I mean, I voice a lot of that stuff. I don't type it. Why the hell would I wanna sit there and type that shit when I can just voice it? Joel: By the way, this is semi self-serving, but, I mean, podcasts. Chad: Well, you can go anywhere. Joel: You can go anywhere. Chad: And here's a great example. Joel: Go ahead. Chad: Here's a great example. So I was talking to Jay-Z over at SmashFly yesterday and he said he listens to our podcast on Alexa. So, he just tells Alexa to play the new Chad and Cheese podcast. I mean that is cool as shit. Not only your mobile phone, right? But to tell Alexa or to tell Google Home, you know, play the newest Chad and Cheese podcast. Joel: So, podcasts as well, I just wanna throw out. Seth Godin. If you're a marketer, you know Seth's name pretty well, but Seth is a big time blogger. He talks a lot about marketing in the new-age of digital ... And he launched a podcast this week, which I listened to, and you should too if you like marketing. But what was interesting about this was that ZipRecruiter, who is obviously in our space, is the only launch advertiser for Seth Godin's podcast. And I listened to it, today actually, and it has Ian, who's the CEO. Joel: So, the ads are actually very different from the CNBC or MSNBC ads that you might see, or the Limbaugh ads on radio. SO they actually had ... it was sort of content marketing driven, so Ian came on the show and said, "Hey, ZipRecruiter, blah, blah, blah", but then he said, "Hey, at the end of the show, we're gonna tell you why eyebrows are so important to business." So at the end of the show, the tip was, if you're telling an idea to someone and their eyebrows go up, that typically means hat they like the idea. If you tell someone the idea and they kind of scrunch their eyebrows, they don't like the idea. And that eyebrows don't lie. Joel: So it as kind of interesting that ZipRecruiter picked this blog, that they picked sort of content marketing to advertise on this podcast, but certainly, podcasts should be part of digital strategy if you're sick of Facebook and the content since that's around YouTube as well. Chad: Yeah. And I think he stole that from Shakira, because the hips don't lie. Joel: And ... for that one. Joel: Alright, well speaking of change and getting rid of the swamp and the cesspool- Chad: That's right! Joel: ... brings us to our next sponsor. Sponsor: The following message was paid for by the campaign to elect the Chad and Cheese as co-presidents of Monster. Chad: "Hi, my name is Chad Sowash. Joel: And I'm Joel Cheesman. You know us as ... Chad: The Chad ... Joel: And Cheese Podcast at chadcheese.com. Chad: We are aware Monster's new owners have lopped of the heads of old Monster leadership and have focused on filling those positions with fresh ideas and new, proven leaders which is why ... Joel: Let 'em eat cake! Get it? Joel: What? Lopped off heads, Marie Antoinette ... Oh, come on, man! Chad: Which is why the Chad and Cheese are officially running for co-president of Monster. Joel: The Chad and Cheese understand the current vulnerability of Indeed and a market that is crying out of anew platform, for and of the people. Chad: Really? The baby sound effect? Again? Joel: You know it's my favorite. Chad: Yeah, you do love that damn thing. Chad: The Chad and Cheese pledge to build and drive cost effective recruitment options through a new Monster vision. Joel: Yes, and the Chad and Cheese also want to answer your long-standing questions like, Whatever happened to Monster Networking? Chief Monster? Jobber? HotJobs? Goziak? Job Pilot? TalentBin? Trovix? Tickle? And that blue-collar thingy. What was that called? I can't remember. Chad: The Chad and Cheese promise to get you, the people, answers. And we also promise not to make bone-headed decisions like buying Tickle instead of LinkedIn. Yeah, that actually happened. Joel: Chad and I are asking for your support in our bid to co-president Monster. Chad: Vote for the Chad and Cheese for co-president of Monster because you deserve a new Monster, and we don't mean that purple, Bugs Bunny cartoon rip-off thing either. Joel: It's a new day. Chad: And you deserve a new Monster. And you'll get one with the Chad ... Joel: And Cheese as co-presidents of Monster. Sponsor: This ad was approved by the Chad and Cheese podcast. Look, there's literally no way in hell that these guys are getting his gig, but they have a pretty amazing podcast. Honestly. So visit chadcheese.com. Paid for by the Campaign for Chad and Cheese for Co-President of Monster. Chad: It's like fine wine, it gets better every time. Joel: I mean, I unmuted you too fast and I got some sniffles there at the end. So yeah, Chad's milking a cold or something so we apologize for the sniff there at the end as you listen. Joel: So I'm reading through news from the Philly Enquirer, which I frequent all the time. Chad: A lot. Joel: And there's a story about Beyond and why they changed their name to Nexxt. And it was fascinating. The summary is basically ... They bought Beyond in like '03 or something. Chad: Right. Joel: He started the company in '97, '98. Rich Milgram, who's the CEO. Anyways, so in '07, they got an investment infusion of about thirteen and a half million dollars from a company called Safeguard ... something. Chad: For a minority. Joel: Yeah, for a minority stake. The world ended in 2008, right? So there was a five year period where, you know, unemployment was huge. Everyone in the employment space sucked. So, Rich raised money at the right time and they were sort of able to weather the storm, which might have been a lot tougher had they not had the money. So the economy improves, things are good. Safeguard, which typically has a five year roadmap for getting their money back, or getting a return on their investment. They're really pushing Rich to sell the company, right? Rich doesn't wanna do it; he doesn't wanna lay off the employees, which by the way, they have some of the most colorful employees in the market who have been around forever. Chad: Oh yeah. Joel: So, that would have been a real shame. Joel: So anyway, Bed, Bath, and Beyond, apparently, had been calling, raising the stakes in terms of what they would offer for the domain, beyond.com. Ultimately, they made an offer that Rich couldn't refuse. He said ... Oh, so I will also say, tensions apparently got pretty high with the investor and Rich according to the news story. So anyways, Rich came up with a plan to say, "What if we sold Beyond to Bed, Bath, and Beyond, we took the money from that, paid off the investors ...", as well as, there's also a note there ... I think they owe them ten million over the next three years or by three years from now. Joel: So anyway, you and I both think ... We're probably very skeptical as to why you would change a name from Beyond, which is a common spelling, easy to remember .com to Nexxt, which has two x's. It's a autocorrect nightmare to do that. And now, what they were telling us was, "Well, we're moving beyond job postings, you know, we're moving on to what's next. So that's why we're changing our name". I always thought that was fishy; I think you always thought that was fishy. So we have news now, as to why, they actually went from Beyond to Nexxt. Chad: This makes sense now. This now makes sense. And it makes a hell of a lot of sense from a business standpoint. I mean, yeah, it sucks to go from Beyond to Nexxt with two x's. From the standpoint of really being able to get that monkey off your back and then pivot. I mean, they were going to have to do something to pivot anyway because they were known as just a job board, really, company. A job board distribution company. They wanted to pivot into a data company, so they had to do something. So I think, the stars just aligned and Rich probably woke up in the middle of the night in cold sweat and said, "Eureka! I see exactly what we need to do". And they did it. Chad: So I mean, in the end, I think it was an incredibly smart move and this isn't just because they're one of our sponsors. I thought it was kind of weird before. But now, I think it's smart from the standpoint of, they did need to pivot. Job board and the job board kind of ecosystem itself that they had and they were really promoted and known for, that was, felt like, withering. This data play is strong. And being able to get a new name associated to it, pivoting and getting that monkey off your back is, I believe, genius. Joel: And I also think that the timing was right in terms of, Amazon is eating up everything retail. And every traditional retail store is trying to combat that. So you see Walmart buying Jet.com recently. So Walmart is upping their game with free delivery and you're seeing ads on TV pretty extensively. And so I looked at Bed, Bath, and Beyond because you know, I never go there regularly. Chad: Lies. Joel: So what they're starting at Beyond is this ... it's a $29 per year membership where you get exclusive discounts, et cetera. So I fully expect that you're going to see beyond.com ads on TV and everywhere promoting this sort of membership service at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. And this deal may not have gone through if Amazon had not put so much pressure on retail shops to sort of up their online game. I don't even know what Bed, Bath, and Beyond's URL was before this. Was it bedbathandbyond.com? 'Cause that would be really horrible. Chad: Yeah, I think that the Beyond piece ... the new Beyond, kind of, plus program that they're putting together, which is like you're talking about. More of, kind of, a delivery type of membership service. So, I don't know that they're gonna change URLs to an extent, so I think this is a program ... We'll see as it rolls out, but I think this is a program to ... much like Walmart and some of the other brick and mortar types of organizations, how they're going to combat the Amazons. Joel: Alright, man. That's all we got. Go get some Sudafed, take care of those sniffles- Chad: Chicken soup! Joel: ... and yeah, happy Valentine's Day week. Chad: Happy Valentine's Day. Joel: Yeah, all warm and fuzzy. We out! Chad: We out! Announcer: This has been the Chad and Cheese podcast. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes or Google so you don't miss a single show! And be sure to check out our sponsors because they make this all possible. For more, visit chadcheese.com. Oh, and you're welcome.

Heading out of January, the boys are already covering a wide variety of topics, which is nice for what's normally a slow news period. Partnerships are the name of the game in the new recruiting ecosystem, with news from Smashfly and Recruitology hitting the wire this week. What else? Glad you asked. - Strive Talent cleans up in a round of funding, but will sale pros care? - Best diversity employers are announced. Chad may or may not be impressed. - What's old is new again as newspaper catch their second wind. - Infamous dumpster dweller Purple Squirrel has some company. Oy! And much more, as always. Shout-outs are particularly amusing. Enjoy, and visit our sponsor for free demos! Ratedly, America's Job Exchange, Sovren and Catch 22 Consulting rock our world. PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast, Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the "Chad & Cheese" podcast. Joel: Guess who's back, back again. Welcome to the "Chad & Cheese Show," HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Cheese. Chad: I'm Chad. Joel: On this week's stimulating episode, Purple Squirrel gets some competition. Oh no. Newspapers are hip again. Chad: Yeah. Joel: SmashFly gets in bed with Olivia. We'll try to keep it PG 13, but no promises. Stay tuned. We have free demos and W's all up in your face. Announcer: Google, Lever, Entelo, Monster, Jibe. What do these companies and hundreds of others have in common? They all use Sovren Technology. Some use our software to help people find the perfect job, while others use our technology to help companies find the perfect candidate. Sovren has been the global leader in recruitment intelligent software since 1996, and we can help improve your hiring process too. We'd love to help you make a perfect match. Visit Sovren.com S-O-V-R-E-N.com for a free demo. Joel: Free demo baby. Chad: They run the AI world. They can say "free demo" whenever they want Kelly Robinson. Joel: Oh, now you're getting, oh, hold on. You were all about team Kelly. Chad: I love Kelly. Joel: Now you've turned on him. Nice, okay. Chad: It's been a busy couple of weeks podcasting. Joel: I'm tired. Chad: Last Friday, the Indeed is sneaky as Hell podcast is all over the place, the Honeit "Firing Squad," Nick Livingston, that one we just dropped this last Wednesday. Then we found ourselves in downtown Indy, pre-gaming at Chatham Tap, and for all of our new listeners, pre-gaming means we're drinking beer in preparation for the exclusive pod that's going to drop next week. We were actually on site and interviewed with the CEO of Canvas. Aman Brar. Yeah, I can't get Canvas right because his URL screws me up so much. Joel: Aman Brar yes, oh, he's going to love that. Man, what a great time we have with those guys. You know what I loved about our visit there most, besides they have lovely people working there? Chad: What's that? Joel: Is it looks like a startup. Chad: Oh, it does. Joel: You go in, it's just sweaty, smelly, haven't left the office for who knows how long. They're eating crappy food. I think you even mentioned in the beginning like, "Oh, this feels like Indeed in the early days," and that's kind of what it felt like. To me ... Chad: The lotion and the tissues on the desk. Joel: Yeah, all right. Hey, I didn't bring that up, I didn't bring it up, but yes, yes. There was ... Oh, I'm not even going to go there. Let's just say, yes, it is a gritty feel when you go into the Canvas headquarters here in downtown Indianapolis. Joel: Do we want to give a shout out to Kelly at Flip the Bean or whatever they're called? Chad: Oh yeah, he's already sold that off. He's doing his own thing like playing golf right now, but- Joel: Jeez. Chad: Yeah, we definitely want to give Kelly Robinson a big shout out for his snarky reply to the free demo, right? Joel: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, CareerBuilder gives you a little bit of money and you get all cocky. Is he a New Zealander or an Aussie? Chad: What? Joel: Aussie or a Kiwi? I can't remember. Chad: No. No, no, no, no. He's from the UK, man. Joel: Oh, well no wonder he's got a ... Okay, well, that explains a lot, that explains a lot. All right. Hi Kelly, if you're listening. Free demos for everybody. Chad: Yeah, free demos all around. Ed, our man from Philly, loved the "Firing Squad" and I quote, also in another tweet, "I'm all fired up after the Eagles win," big Eagles fan, go figure. He couldn't get any sleep, so he's cleaning up the kitchen. He was listening to the "Chad & Cheese" podcast and he said, "Chad was on fire like the Eagles' D." Ed is officially I think, a candidate for team Chad. That's right. Joel: That's a nice tease there. I don't know if we're going to get to that on this show or not. Chad: No, not yet, yeah. Joel: Taking us from Philly, let's go to Toronto, LinkedIn headquarters, not headquarters but maybe it's their Canadian headquarters, I don't know. They love the show. I can't believe how much love we get from LinkedIn. Chad: All of the Canadians- Joel: Like it's fantastic. Chad: Especially the Toronto, the Toronto office. Yeah, there's big love coming to the "Chad & Cheese Show." From my understanding, we drop this bad boy today, they will download it, and they'll all be listening to it on their Monday morning meeting. Joel: Good god, this will be the demise of LinkedIn, for sure. Chad: I love it, it's awesome. Joel: Good god, good god. Let's remind people that we'll be in Dublin in two months. Chad: That's right. Joel: A month and a half. Chad: Yeah, March 13th and 14th, the "Chad & Cheese" podcast are flying to Dublin for TA Tech Europe, that's TATechEurope.io. Is everything going io these days? I don't understand it. Joel: "Io, io it's off to work we go." We do have the Canvas CEO of the business on his domain, it's kind of funny there at the beginning, so make sure you do tune into that. Chad: Yeah. Joel: Have we gotten anything on the tweeter, tweeter sphere? Chad: Oh yeah. Yeah, we've got Nancy from Philly. Philly loves us. Not happy that the pod usually drops on Saturday or Sunday because she's itching for it and she has to wait until Monday to listen to it. Don't worry Nancy. You have our permission to wait a couple of days to actually listen to the pod on Monday. Joel: You got to blame that on like cabin fever here in the winter. Like no one is waiting for our show to drop minus Kelly or whoever that was, so yeah, that's awesome. Chad: Recruitics is giving us some love after the Indeed pod cast last week, loved that. Thanks to George LaRoque - LA-ROCK. Is it Larock or LaRoque? I'm going to say La-ROCK. Because, I mean, it would be Larock if it was my name, that's it. Pronunciation George Larock, that's what I would do. What? Joel: I think it is Larock but Laroch or something, it's got to be some fancy French spelling or saying. Way beyond my public school intelligence. Chad: No, he gets intel to us all the time and we really appreciate a lot of the research that he does. Joel: He has a great Facebook group. Chad: Oh yeah. Joel: Or whatever that, if you're not following, you should, it's Talent Tech place, I think. Chad: Yeah. He puts a lot of really good intel out there. I think the last shout out, yeah, I think, so goes to Nexxt. Woo! Joel: Got my schwag finally. Chad: Yeah, got my big box of schwag. Joel: Sounds a little bit like Julie and your dogs, so I don't know what you've been doing with the stuff while it's been at your house. Chad: No comment. They just put out an infographic on "What Will the Job Market Look Like in 2018?" You can find it by looking at, probably at my LinkedIn post, your LinkedIn post, Twitter feeds or you can go to ChadCheese.com homepage for this week and this week only. Click on the banner and some really good intel and a really cool infographic. These guys, I mean, when they do infographics, they don't screw around. They do the shit right. Joel: True that, true that. You ready to get to the show? Chad: Yeah, let's do it. Joel: All right. SmashFly partners with Paradox.ai, I believe, not io. Chad: Slash Olivia. Joel: Yes, which is chatbotting at its best. You actually reached out to SmashFly and had a conversation. How did that go? Chad: It went really well. I mean, the team over at SmashFly, they are awesome. They're always very open to have conversations. Sometimes they reach out and they want to talk, and that's really cool. Especially about what's going on with them, and so I reached out to them to say, "Hey, what's going on with this whole Olivia paradox play?" It actually turned out to be more that than. It turned out to be a HiringSolved, SmashFly, Olivia play. Chad: As we started to have the conversation it really, to me, made a hell of a lot of sense because a lot of these smaller kind of niche players ... I mean, SmashFly to be quite frank, I mean you're taking a look at really having a cosmetic vehicle that's focused on user experience and being able to collect data. Chad: Then you've got Olivia, which is AI versus like just a chatbot that can hep with that experience, so that's something that SmashFly doesn't do, so it made sense that they connect with Olivia and Paradox to be able to do that. Chad: Then on the HiringSolved side of the house, I mean, SmashFly doesn't do that, Paradox doesn't do that. That's more on the sourcing side, so whether you're going, you're dumping into your applicant tracking system and trying to find qualified candidates for current open reqs or going out to the web right now. Chad: I think this is actually a great response. Hopefully, what we'll see from some of these smaller players, to be able to start to arm up and wage war against the Facebooks, the Googles and the Microsofts. Joel: They're talking about this being an integration, like ... Chad: Yeah. Joel: Part of it goes out to find candidates, and then they engage with them through Olivia. Is that what they talked about? Chad: That's all a part of it. Yeah, that's all a part of it. Again, these are fairly early partnerships so the integrations are definitely happening. Obviously, it's going to evolve as the partnership evolves. It seems like, at least from the outside looking in, that this is more than just a paper partnership, that they're looking to do some really amazing integrations. Chad: They're still going to be separate companies, right? They can sell to companies just by themselves their specific product. When you're going in and up against some of these bigger platforms that really have more horsepower than you do, what are you going to do? Are you going to try to build it yourself and really throw a shit ton of resources at it? Or are you going to partner and build integrations so that you can go in and you can really, truly compete? I think that's a great idea. Joel: We saw this too with remember Monster partnering with TextRecruit? Chad: Yep. Joel: Early this year, and thinking in the old days, Monster would just build this or go buy somebody for $50 million to integrate it. It seems like the strategy in '18 is partner. Chad: Partner and acquire Joel: Acquire, yeah. ISIM, TextRecruit, hint, hint. Yeah, buy some people, get your Monster on and buy people. Does it surprise you at all that someone like SmashFly who's gotten a little bit of money, I'm not exactly sure how much, but that they wouldn't attempt to build this themselves? Do you think this partnering is the better strategy? Chad: It's a far better strategy because that money's only going to go so far, and they have core competencies, I mean they all do. Paradox does, SmashFly does and so does HiringSolved. They have core competencies. To be able to dump their cash into those core competencies is where they should stay to be able ensure that they can compete in the long-run with these bigger platforms. Chad: Yeah, I agree. This is one of the ways that the smaller platforms will be able to gain more market share. They'll be more flexible and we'll see how it goes, but I'm pretty excited to see these types of partnerships. Joel: Well, it seems like a trend that's taking off. We will keep our eye on it as always. Recruitology, I think I said it right that time. Chad: Yes. Joel: They're going back in time and making newspapers hip again, which is a weird trend, frankly, from my perspective. I mean, this was like, you and I remember the early "ots" where CareerBuilder, Monster, Hot Jobs, like it was all about the newspaper relationship. Chad: Oh yeah. Joel: With the demise of newspapers, that sort of subsided and Monster and CareerBuilder, they're all letting go of their newspaper relationships and people like RealMatch and Recruitology are embracing them, and even have sort of the ZipRecruiter Job Boardio thing, but let's get to the news a little bit. Joel: Recruitology, they partner with McClatchy, which is a popular newspaper in the States. They just partnered with another consortium of media companies, it's like 1,700 digital sites, 14 billion page views, blah, blah, blah. Chad: Yeah, it's crazy. Joel: It's about distribution, but to me, what's interesting is because Google for Jobs is indexing pretty much every job out there, pretty close, and people can search all those jobs but then they can decide which site they want to apply from. That's creating sort of a commodity around the job posting and the eyeballs, so the people who are going to Google continue to go Google. Joel: How do you get people that aren't on Google? I think one way to do that is to partner with newspapers or media sites as well as like a job board platform that is setting up shop on association sites or college sites, et cetera. Chad: Dude, I think you would be all over this because there are three words, content, content, content. That's what this ... I mean, and newspapers put out amazing content and with all the social sharing that's happening these days, I mean, that's where you're seeing a lot of people dump into these newspaper sites. Chad: Now here's the key, and here's where they weren't able to pull it off with CareerBuilder and Monster over the years, is being able to effectively draw that user who's coming to read an article into jobs that are relevant to them, right? That's been the hard part. Chad: If they have that figured out, and I believe they feel like they have that figured out, then that is a key play. Because when somebody's not looking for a job and they're looking for content or they seem some cool byline on Facebook and they click on it, the next thing you know, you have an article in your face and you have jobs that are specifically relevant, not just location-wise, but also skills, maybe title or whatever it might be. Chad: I mean, dude, that brings so much more to the table, and it's really an offshoot of a strategy that is beyond Google, which I think is really cool. Joel: Yeah, definitely true. I think that in the early days, a company would just set up shop on the jobs link on a newspaper site or TV, a local TV station. They would have their search box and a few banner ads and they'd rev share. We're moving into a world now of programmatic ad buying, keyword content, running the ads that people see, they're looking at people coming back to the site. Chad: Retargeting. Joel: For example, if you come once and see a job and you don't act on it, then you leave, you come back the next day, you won't see that ad because you weren't interested in it. The systems are learning more and more about your behavior, so it makes sense. Joel: I think with the newspapers sort of trying to get in with Facebook on a revenue generating sort of trust relationship because of the fake news phenomenon, I think that there's going to be more value put on real news by Facebook and Twitter and others. Maybe they're striking at the right time where traditional media, trusted media's going to make a comeback, and these guys are in the right place at the right time. Chad: Yeah, I agree. I agree 100 percent. Joel: All right, well the next one is right in your lane. Somebody made some sort of list of the best diversity employers. Tell us about that. Chad: Forbes, you might have heard of them before, they're a small organization. Joel: I know, Steve. Chad: They actually released their Best Employers for Diversity's list. Personally, I've never been a fan of these lists, mainly because not all companies provide a great amount of transparency and, or ability to prove they have sustainable programs. It's just a list that, it's like, "Oh yeah, we've hired x amount of, but I'm not going to show you what our actual workforce looks like." Chad: There's a great example that they have in this article that Levy's parent company, Compass Group, and Levy was number two on the list. They released a diversity and inclusion report for 2016 that gave unusual levels of transparency into their workforce demographics, which was incredibly cool. Chad: It showed that 43 percent of management level employees were women, 15 percent were African American, and 10 percent were Hispanic. This is a big lesson for companies to understand that you have to be transparent, you have to look at yourself in the mirror, and you have to know that you cannot do this alone. Levy, I guarantee you, and their parent company Compass, didn't do this alone. Chad: That's why, one of the reasons why we talk about diversity so much around here because, obviously, I'm close to it working with veterans. My wife works with individuals with disabilities, and we've been on the diversity front for many years. That's why we've actually teamed with America's Job Exchange, they're a sponsor of the podcast. Chad: You need professionals on your side, and America's Job Exchange, they do a ton of different things, where it's targeted job distribution, different programmatic types of outreach. They have actual local outreach with partners that are on the ground, who are focused on helping you find diverse candidates and those are the types of individuals that you really need to partner with. Chad: If you're interested in diverse hiring and you looked at yourself in the mirror and said, "Hey look, I don't know how to do this. My team doesn't know how to do this. Well, visit the experts at America's Job Exchange. If you visit AmericasJobExchange.com/Cheese or go to ChadCheese.com and click on the America's Job Exchange logo, it'll take you to the landing page and you can start the conversation. You know you can't do it by yourself. Go out there and find people to help you. America's Job Exchange can help you do that. Joel: Chad, I can't tell you how many times I've looked in the mirror and said, "I can't do this." Chad: You mean, eat the rest of the steak? Or doing what? Joel: The cheesecake was delicious. Chad: The cheesecake was delicious. Julie was glad that I brought it home to her. Joel: All right, let's get medieval on some people. Chad: Oh yeah, please. Joel: Our listeners, our long time listeners will know the name Purple Squirrel pretty well. I think it made my naughty list for the year. I'm pretty sure it's on our hot steaming pile of garbage. Chad: Oh yes it is. Joel: Of sites that we really don't like very much. Chad: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Joel: To my chagrin, they have a competitor now called The Lobby, which is almost as bad as Purple Squirrel, but it's pretty bad. Chad: It has a dot io at the end. Loddy-dah io, so therefore it's got to be cool as shit, right? Joel: "The Lobby Dot io." All right, what do you want to say about these guys? They got a little bit of money, like 120,000, Chad: Yeah, yeah. Joel: It's this whole connect with people at other companies. Chad: It's a pay to play. Joel: Money's exchanged for mentorship stuff. Chad: It's a pay to play scenario, man. On the website they pitch it as, "Talk one-on-one with company insiders to help you land your dream job." The actual company vision is a little different from that, because The Lobby is an online marketplace where job candidates buy affordable, one-on-one calls with entry level employees at top companies. What the ... Really? Chad: Entry level employees, that's exactly who I want to connect with. Yeah, and I want to pay to connect with those entry level employees. Why couldn't I just go to LinkedIn, find some entry level per-, hell, middle management. I don't care, and actually reach out to them there? I'm going to pay you to do that? Are you shitting me? Joel: I have such disdain for these companies that like, I don't want to say prey- Chad: They do. Joel: ... on the unemployed and ... Okay, I'll say it. They prey on the unemployed and the new grad that isn't an engineer from Purdue or whatever to get their money. Chad: Yes, yes. Joel: I don't even want to spend anymore time on these idiots. Chad: Yeah. Joel: The fact that they're a Y-Combinator company- Chad: Yeah, no shit, right? Joel: Pisses me off even more that there's some credibility in this stuff and somebody like Y-Combinator would give these idiots the time of day, so ... Chad: Go after the companies who have the cash, not the job seekers who don't, so yeah, definitely add this to the pile of steaming garbage with Recruitsy, who I think we had on a couple weeks ago. Joel: Oh. They're getting all the sound effects. Chad: Woo! All right. Joel: I need to sit down after that. Chad: Yes. Joel: All right. Strive Talent startup. Got some money, got some real money, I think in a seed round actually. $3.8 million. Tell us about them. Chad: Yeah, so I like this, I really do. I don't know if it's going to work. It really depends on the execution but Strive Talent is the ... This is on their website, is the fastest and fairest, I don't know what the hell that means, way to get the sales jobs that applicants desire and deserve. You take an assessment, which is a cognitive personal skills assessment. You meet with companies, I would assume an interview, and then you quote, unquote, get the job, right? Chad: As we know, sales jobs in the United States and across the globe, but mainly in the United States, so this is an area that really needs help, to be able to find competent salespeople, right? Thing is, they're just currently limited to like six markets right now so it's very, very small at this point. Chad: If this works, if this specific model works for sales, this could easily pivot into customer service as well. This model, I believe easily ... Customer service is also another one of those booming areas of the economy. You've got two perspective booming areas of the economy who need competent individuals. If they could pull this off right, they could perspectively make some cash, which is probably why they had $3.8 million in seed funding. Joel: All right, I'm going to throw a little- Chad: Go ahead. Joel: A little cold water on this just a little bit, okay. I think what's interesting is they've sort of taken the idea of how developers love to sort of be on a computer and take tests against other developers, and take little brain teasers about code and leverage that instinct into companies that work, right? Like we know the ones that are out there, but the best salespeople, I mean, are they going to take a quiz? Joel: Like your history is in sales. You've managed salespeople. To me, the best salespeople are like, "I don't need to take a test. Let me show you how much I made last year, or let me show you how much I made the company last year." Like do you really think salespeople are going to take quizzes? Chad: Hey, this isn't really about those types of salespeople. They're about the individuals who are coming in ... See, the hardest part about finding new salespeople, let's say for instance, like entry level salespeople is the Chad: characteristics that make a great salesperson, right? It's not a college degree, yes, you have to be well-spoken. It's not a college degree. It has to do with being respectful, tenacious, and being able to really focus on what the mission and the objective is, right? Really hone in on that, focus and understand that you have goals to hit. Joel: It feels a little bit like an agency, doesn't it? Like a staffing firm, basically. Chad: Yeah, yeah. It kind of does, but I mean this, I think from an entry level standpoint, will be the best. I agree 100 percent, if somebody's been in the business for a few years, they will have history to be able to demonstrate that they know how to do their shit, right? From an entry level standpoint, that's generally where you need most of your people, especially in this growth sector. Joel: All right. All right, I'm open to it, I'm open to it. Let's get some salespeople hired. Chad, you know SmartRecruiters. Chad: I've heard of those guys, yeah. Joel: One word, SmartRecruiters. Not Smart, space, Recruiters. Chad: Yes. Joel: Like this is the ATS the company you know that's been around for a while. Anyway, they are launching a competition for Startup of the Year. Chad: Oh. Joel: Guess who's on the list? Chad: Who? Joel: Ratedly. Shockingly. Chad: No, it's not. Stop it. Joel: Ratedly. Yes, we've been nominated, I just want to put it out there as our ad. I won't talk about free demos or send people to www.Ratedly.com. Chad: Yeah, don't do that. Joel: There are some cool companies, if you go to Hire18, so it's H-I-R-E, the number 18.com, and you'll see a wide variety of startups that are there, you can nominate them, you can vote for them. I believe the voting will be closed sometime in mid-February. Then I think the winners will be announced at the annual show or whatever. Joel: Anyway, it's an honor to be nominated. Obviously, that means nothing if you don't win but it's still nice to be out there. I'll also mention in my little Ratedly ad here for my company, we are going to be raising prices this weekend, so if you have been thinking about Ratedly and using it, we'll be increasing prices over the weekend and next week we'll also be launching analytics ... Chad: There it is. Joel: ... around our reviews, which we think are very cool as well as some cool little updates to our platform that we're excited about. Chad: Yes. Joel: If you're interested, Ratedly.com, and let's talk about football. Chad: Next time, lead with the, "We're adding analytics" piece, lead with that. Everybody's like, "Oh yeah, analytics," which is the reason why we're raising our pries. Lead them into that. That's just a little sales tip for next time. Joel: I need to go to Strive Talent and take their quizzes to become a better salesperson, obviously. Chad: Yeah. Where do you want to start on this football thing? There's so much to talk about. Joel: Well, you want to torch Tom Brady. Chad: Oh yeah. Joel: I want to make a Johnny Manziel joke, so I guess Tommy or Johnny, I guess. Chad: Let's start ... Joel: The goat or the goat? Chad: We'll give Tom Brady his number one spot but I hate Tom Brady, always will. He is a product of Michigan, that team up north. Yeah, there's no way, I don't care how many Super Bowl rings he wins, never be the greatest in my book, but there's this great meme that's out from NFL Memes who's been putting them out. They're comparing Nick Foles to Tom Brady. Here's just a few of them, which are frickin' hilarious. Chad: First off, "Nick Foles has only one career playoff loss. Tom Brady has nine." That's why Nick Foles is better. "Nick Foles starred in 'Napoleon Dynamite,' Tom Brady never in a movie." That's why Nick Foles is better. Joel: If you're not a sports fan, you may tune off the show at this point. Chad: "Nick Foles kills it on the field. He threw seven TD passes in one game, and Tom Brady only threw six." That's why Nick Foles is better. Joel: I guess you're picking the Eagles next week. Chad: Oh yeah. I got to stick with the Philly crew. Not to mention, I don't like Tom Brady so how in the hell can I vote for the Patriots? Joel: We have fans in Bean Town too. Chad: No, we do, we have a lot. Joel: We have fans in Bean Town. Chad: I love- Joel: Which you just insulted. That's all right. Chad: I love Boston. I said I hated Tom Brady. I didn't say I hated Boston, I love Boston. Got great beer, got stuff to do. Joel: It's like telling Cleveland you hate LeBron. Chad: Yeah, you can't do that. Anyway ... Joel: Actually, quite a few of them hate LeBron. Remember, like Bernie Kosar or something. Yeah, I have nothing on the Tom Brady thing. We'll make predictions I'm sure next week, but I do ... I do have to say that I feel bad for the Minnesotans, the Vikings fans, that you would have had a home game in the Super Bowl, and you totally just whiffed, you totally air balled that game- Chad: Dude. Joel: That sucks. Anyway, XFL, here's one for the old people- Chad: It's back. Joel: ... who remember XFL for the like three weeks it was on. God, tell people what that was if they don't remember. Chad: The XFL is actually a football league that is funded, and I guess the presidency, oh president, is Vince McMahon from the WWE, WWF, whatever the hell, World Wrestling fake entertainment kind of organization that's out there. Joel: Yeah. Chad: He wanted to do football and he tried a season to do football, but there were just so many gimmicks. It was corny as hell. One thing I did like was, He Hate Me, because he was a hell of a runner. Joel: Didn't He Hate Me get into the NFL for a while actually? Chad: Yeah, he did, he did. Like for a season I think, maybe two, maybe two seasons. Joel: Here's the one thing I liked about the XFL. If you remember this, to start the game, they didn't kick it off. They put the ball in the center of the field and they had two guys at the end zone. They started at the same time, and the one who got the ball was the team that got the ball first. You remember that? Chad: Yeah. Joel: That was actually pretty entertaining. It's way more entertaining than the NFL today, which basically every kickoff is at the 20, whatever it is. Like that's boring as ... I understand it's safety but like the XFL had something right with the way they started games. Joel: I will also say that for Johnny Manziel fans, I'm not one of them, XFL may just be his reentry into the American zeitgeist, which is slightly just scary but also a little bit interesting at least. They need to take all the has-beens, which would be like half the ex-Browns quarterbacks from the last 10 years, put them on a field and see what happens. XFL, I'm going to ... If this were "Firing Squad," I would shoot it down because it has no chance. Chad: It's football, man. If I get more football in my year, I am happy. Hell, I'll even watch Canadian football. Joel: You and I are old enough to remember the USFL. Chad: Oh yeah. Joel: Which didn't work out either. Chad: No, it didn't, it didn't. I mean the NFL crushed them, but anyway ... Joel: We out. Chad: We out. Speaker 1: This has been the "Chad & Cheese" podcast. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes or Google so you don't miss a single show, and be sure to check out our sponsors because they make this all possible. For more, visit ChadCheese.com. Oh, and you're welcome. #TheLobbyio #Smashfly #Olivia #HiringSolved #StriveTalent #XFL #SuperBowl

It's December, Santa's Little Helpers, and the boys from HR's most dangerous podcast are taking on a wide range of topics this week, including: Twitter is sick of your job posting bots and finally doing something about it. Meetup gets acquired by WeWork, which could revive this old school recruiting fav from 10 years ago. All-things-automation continues with janitorial bots at this major retailer, driverless busses (oh, how we would've loved a driverless bus at 15-years-old), and a real AI expert tells us what's really AI and what isn't AI. The ice under Indeed's feet is starting to crack ... the boys go into what they're hearing from trusted contacts.... and more, baby! It's 40 minutes you won't want back. Throw in a fat man and some reindeer, and you've got Christmas early this year. Speaking of Christmas, don't forget to show our sponsors some love: Sovren, America's Job Exchange, Ratedly and Nexxt. are just what your stocking wants this year. PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION Intro: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brush opinions, and lots of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast. Joel : Welcome to December my little Santa's helpers. This is Chad and Cheese, the dudes behind HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman Chad : I'm Chad Sowash and I'm totally creeped out about how you just said little Santa's helpers. Joel : And F you. On this week's show twitter is telling bots to get off their lawn, Walmart is being overrun with janitorial robots, and the seeds of Indeed's demise are starting to sprout. It's not really AI unless it knows your favorite tune. We'll be right's back. Advert: America's job exchange is celebrating our tenth year as an industry leader in diversity recruitment and OFCCP compliance. We've been helping our 1000 plus customers comply with OFCCP regulations that directly support positive and effective diversity recruitment designed to attract and convert veterans, individuals with disabilities, women and minorities, and empower employers to pursue and track active outreach with their local community based organizations. Want to learn more, call 866-926-6284, or visit us at www.americasjobexchange.com. Joel : Word up. Chad : Word. Joel : How was Thanksgiving? Chad : It was amazing. It was a good time. Joel : Yeah? Chad : How about ... Well, I mean we did a Thanksgiving and after-Thanksgiving show if you didn't listen to it.... Joel : Well, I was high on tryptophan ... you know that ... during the show. Chad : Yeah. Joel : Yeah, and I've been out of town for a while. Let's get to the shout out shall we? Chad : Yeah. Joel : I know we're kind of stressed for time, so let's get on with the show. Joel : Shout out to Caleb Pask. A loyal listener down in Dallas at AT&T. Chad : AT&T crew. Joel : Caleb, thanks for listening. Chad : We did a show yesterday ... actually, a couple of days ago. We just dropped it yesterday ... with HiQ, so if anybody hasn't listened to that one, I want to give a shout out to Mark Weidick. Chad : We talked about updates of their David and Goliath court battle, negative industry impact, possibly, not just with us, but just global innovation. And then scraping bots and how to identify good actors from bad actors. It's a really pod. You should check it out. Joel : Did you say a shart out? Chad : Shart out. Joel : Or shout out? Chad : Well, it depends. It depends on your diet, so if it was... Joel : It's not that kind of show. It's not that kind of show. I got to shout out to ZWD on Twitter, they dig us there. They want more turkeys in our show. They want more snark and embarrassing their companies and less Indeed, Google, Facebook, and Linkedin. Chad : Yeah. Brent Healy gave us a little love on the hashtag Chad Cheese, thanking us for the monster history lesson and reminding us all that earning are historical not predictive. It's pretty simple, you have to know history or you're going to be doomed to repeat it. Good stuff Brent, thanks. Joel : Brent is a loyal listener, we appreciate it Brent. And you like Jon Zila at Recruitics, you got a shout out for him? Chad : Yeah. John and I this week had pretty much a snark/gif battle via email and I think he got the best of me. But there was the battle, the war rages on John, keep listening and look for more gifs coming in your email. Joel : Little insider note, Chad and I typically have conversations that are just gifs. Chad : Full conversations. Joel : Yeah, we consider ourselves masters in the art of gifs. Shout out for me to Recruitcon, conference out in San Francisco that I spoke at on Wednesday, met some great people, some people from Wholefoods, groupon, our friends at Ellena from ... It will come back to me, I'll bring it back. Chad : The tryptophan is killing you. Joel : Well, I'm nervous, it's our first show. Chad : And a shout out to Jacob Sten Madsen for giving the Chad and Cheese podcast love in the recruiting evolution Facebook group, really appreciate it, thanks for all the love guys. Joel : You bet. And he's European, so it could be Yacob Steinmatsen or something, so yeah, love him, he loves the show. Chad : You're so horrible. Joel : Well, let's get into it. News out of Twitter this week from yours truly on ere.net, you can read about all my stuff there. Twitter is sick of the bots that are automatically Tweeting stuff, following people, DMing people ... You know what I'm talking about, like you follow someone and gets nuts, and so they're sick of it and they're slowly killing it, so that affects jobs. Chad : There are like 48 million accounts that are bot created accounts on Twitter, that's ridiculous. Not to mention- Joel : 15% of Twitter is bots. Chad : I mean, you think of ... Obviously we've got all this controversy with the election and what not, but still on a day to day basis, the trolling, all the shit that happens on Twitter right now is just is totally bogus and they've got to do something about it. And it looks like they are. Joel : They are. I mean, they've been getting their ass kicked by Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat ... God, I'm really struggling today. Snapchat, yeah. And the political landscape of the world of fake news and people affecting elections, Twitter is doing something about it. And this impacts companies, CareerArc comes to mind, but there are a ton. Go do a search on Twitter for #jobs, and see the number of sites that are just blasting jobs, sometimes jobs five to ten times a day. The same job or the same tweet. Those services are going away, so if you as an employer rely on Twitter to sort of blast your jobs and your getting results from that, it's going to be limited because Twitter is shutting it down. Chad : I think they're going to shut down RSS feeds. I mean, it's pretty simple to hook an RSS feed into Hootsuite or something like that and let that run its course. Are they're looking to shut down like the Hootsuite's of the world and RSS feeds? Joel : We're not quite sure or at least I'm not quite sure. I think that the sort of examples where you post a job and you click a little button that says, hey, I want to tweet this job out on my account, it doesn't look like they're going to crack down on that. What they're cracking down on is sort of the mass automation, the mass auto following, mass auto DMing, the things that are going on that we all know what it is and Twitter knows what it is, it's just time to cut it out. Joel : I think certainly retweeting the same thing multiple times is going to get squashed by them, but if you just post a job and you tweet it once, I don't think you have anything to worry about even if it's automated through Hootsuite or your ATS or whatever. And even on Linkedin, if you post something ... A post on Linkedin you can push a post to Twitter, I don't think that would be affected at all. It's sort of that mass easily decipherable automation is going on that they're going to start shutting down. Chad : Yeah, I think we'll probably reach out to our friend at CareerArc and find out, they're probably pretty neck deep in this right now, so they might be able to give us some good intel on it. Joel : Yeah, I'm sure that they're very aware. I received an email because I'm a marketing person, and I get a lot of people that are doing this for marketing purposes and companies that do this. And got a notice that basically they were trying to do all they can or all they could to sort of continually black hat Twitter, and Twitter was getting really good at shutting them down and not letting them do stuff. If this is happening to the best of the best, the black hats if you will, the CareerArcs are going to have a lot of trouble sort of getting by with what they've being down in the past I would imagine. Chad : Ouch, ouch. Joel : New acquisition. WeWork acquired Meetup, which sounds like a weird sort of We work meet up. Chad : $30 million, man. Joel : 30 million, that's kind of loose change for Meetup, a company that's being around for a long time. That's kind of surprising. I mean, granted 30 million is a lot of money but WeWork has been around since like '03 '04. They were a huge impact on election in '04, if you remember correctly. Chad : Right, talking about MeetuP, right? Meetup has ... It being like the different indivisible groups, and those types of groups use Meetup to be able to coordinate. You're right, the platform I would have though would have gone more than $30 million especially from a company like WeWork, who is worth like over 10 billion. Joel : Yeah. They must have a ton of records, data contacts, but I probably did use Meetup at some point 10 plus years ago for marketing groups, SEO groups, things like that. But I haven't checked it forever. So, either Facebook killed it or social media killed it, but it has lost a lot of its luster. Hopefully, WeWork can bring it back because I think Meetup, at for a long time was an underrated recruiting tool and I knew a lot of recruiters who would go to groups and meetups where people they wanted to recruit were going and actually have a lot of success with that. Hopefully, WeWork can revive Meetup and become a real recruiting strategy again. Chad : Yeah. For our listeners, Meetup, and let's separate this two real quick. Meetup is a social networking platform or service that allowed organizations to really pull together this online meetings offline. So, you could meet up somewhere and this groups could meetup and obviously do whatever they do, whether they're talking about an innovation, whatever it is, and it was good as Joel said for recruiters to be able to really target those types of groups and go after IT professionals or something of that nature. So that's really cool, and that was Meetup. Chad : WeWork is entirely different. Really cool from the standpoint of redefining work pace where you use this platform to find workspace in an area. So if I'm in Austin this week or this month let's say, I go to Austin WeWork and I could find an office there that was more of like a collaborative type of office, and it's really cool. Obviously you have to pay for it. But it really is redefining virtual versus semi-virtual, and now it's kind of rework or WeWork [crosstalk 00:11:52] scenario. Rework WeWork. Joel : Meetup is getting reworked by WeWork, how about that for a headline. I like it. Chad : Jesus! That's a good line. Joel : All right, man. Let's take a quick break and hear from a sponsor and talk a little bit about automation because we never talk about that. Advert: Google, Lever, ENTELLO, Monster, Jibe, what does this companies and hundreds of others have in common? They all use Sovren technology. Some use our software to help people find the perfect job, while others use our technology to help companies find the perfect candidate. Sovren has been the global leader in recruitment intelligent software since 1996, and we can help improve your hiring process too. We'd love to help you make a perfect match, visit Sovren.com S-O-V-R-E-N dot com, for a free demo. Joel : Chad is gotten a 15 minute more reprieve on his time, so we can slow down a little bit on the topics if we want to. I need some mood music or something to set the mood. Some automation news this week, what do you want to start with? Chad : I'd like to start off with Walmart cleaning because it just sounds like the most fun, and shit that people really don't want to do in the first place. And we talk about automation, we talk about how it's stealing jobs and all the fun stuff, but in most cases it's just shit that people don't want to do. And this is a perfect example of that. I think the robot is called Emma, and it goes around and it scrubs the floors in Walmart. That's really what it does. Joel : Finish this sentence for me, if you got time to lean? Chad : You've got time to clean. Joel : There you go. All right, so the old work adage that I had, I'm sure you had in your early jobs and like just don't just sit there. Well, now people can just stand there because the robots are going to clean while you get to lean I guess. But it takes out that minuscule task, the little piddly stuff that workers have to do. Now, I assume Walmart has actual people dedicate to cleaning the store, cleaning the floors. I assume these people are in jeopardy of losing their jobs. Chad : Yeah, in some cases I've seen just services or companies that they obviously they contract to do those types of things, so maybe Emma is not a Walmart thing anyway, maybe they're just using another contractor that uses robots instead of human beings. But yeah, I see where you're coming from here. Joel : Now, apparently a lot of Walmart employees this is sort like the gateway that they're looking at this thing and saying, is my job really free, or I'm going to be automated in the future? I got to think they should be worried. We've talked about self-serve cashiers, obviously Amazon is setting the standard for just walking into a store, getting what you need and you leave. I am personally a Sam's club person, I have their app, I scan a code, I pay through my phone and I walk out. I don't have to stand behind are people with tons and tons of items and checking them out. It's really, really convenient. Joel : As a retail worker at Walmart, I would be a little bit scared about what this means in terms of automation of the store because I think that's coming. Chad : Yeah, and even stocking. There are so many different things that we've seen in some of the warehouses that are out there today that are using robots to move pallets, and stoking, and those types of things. Yeah, this are all areas that are going to change, which means again, you need to be in that mindset of what I'm I going to do, where I'm I going to go with my career. Not everybody has that luxury, that's the problem. And that's going to be the unfortunate piece for us as a society. Joel : Which leads us to the next news item, driverless school buses. Chad : Yeah, bus drivers. Joel : I have a question as a parent, and you as a parent as well. Would you put your child, any age on a driverless school bus? Chad : Yeah, not as a prototype or a pilot. This would have to be something that would have to have been run for many years before I would trust something like that. But yeah, I guarantee there are parents that are out there that are like, oh yeah, it's all well and good, let's start our kids in this autonomous Uber and have them go to school. Joel : So, assume you have to pilot for a decade with someone behind the wheel to prove that it's safe, or that it's going to be okay. And I would assume that there is got to be some sort of a central intelligence hub for these buses, similar to like an airline ... What are they called? Airline traffic controller, right? Chad : Yeah. Joel : So, someone can actually see in the bus our kids horsing around, are they beating up other kids, there is got to be some sort of a monitoring system for these buses. Chad : Right. And they're going to walk into this, there are not going to run into it to go straight to level five. There are autonomous driving levels and they'll start with level three or four like you were talking about when somebody is actually sitting there reading a newspaper on their phone, or on Facebook or something like that and then they're going to slowly push them out. But you're 100% correct, who's going to monitor the actual kids on the bus? Is it going to be somebody in a central hub who is watching them on monitors and can actually through facial recognition say, "Hey little Johnny, quite messing with Suzy." You know what I mean? I mean this is all shit that we're talking about, right? Joel : I can tell you as a 14 year old, I would have loved to have been on an autonomous bus because I could have gotten away with a lot of shit at 14- Chad : You think you could? Joel : With no driver on the bus. Chad : Dude, this is enemy of the state shit dude. They're going to know exactly what you did, so old Joe or Josephine who was driving the bus before who kept looking up at that mirror every now and again to try to check out, you got with away with a whole lot of shit on that bus that you won't be able to do with this Will Smith Enemy of the State shit that's coming up. Joel : Cameras in every seats, cameras on the floor, heat sensors, who knows what the hell is going to amount to this thing. A real life example, to bring it down a little bit, in our community a principal was actually killed because of a bus driver that my kids were actually on ... Not that it has any relevance to the story, but that probably could have been averted had it being an autonomous vehicle, not some idiot high on whatever behind the wheel whatever. I do think there are arguments that would be made that it's actually safer to have an autonomous vehicle or bus than it is to have an actual driver. Chad : There will be, but it would have to be ... It would have to be tested and there would have to walk into this with somebody actually on the bus, there are going to start with level three then level four and then they'll go full blown level five Enemy of the state. You're going to walk on the bus, kids are going to walk on the bus and they're going to be able to tell your temperature, and they're going to say, yeah you have 101 degree temperature, get your ass off the bus, go home and have some chicken soup. Joel : Or it'll do that like Star Trek, it'll wave a wand over you and heal before you come on the bus to get you okay. Chad : That would be legit. Joel : Let's be honest dude, the people who drive buses are not like road scholars, right? Chad : No, they're generally part timers in most cases. I know individuals in the past who drive bus and they have other jobs as well. I mean, you take a look at our economy and there are so many people who hold more than one job, part-time jobs, full-time jobs, or what have you. This is the fabric of our economy. Joel : Are you saying bus drivers are the fabric of our economy? Chad : I'm saying those types of jobs. Joel : Because if the kids came to the school, who's going to teach the kids and as Whitney Houston taught us, I believe the future are our children. Chad : Oh, good God. Joel : Teach them well, and let them lead the way. All right, enough about driverless school buses because I'm trending off into Whitney Houston land. Chad : That's horrible. Joel : Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry America. All right [crosstalk 00:21:12] go ahead, say it, what? Chad : I said, and Europe, and Asia, and Anybody who's listening, we apologize. Joel : I don't count down Europe, right? All right, what's really AI Chad? There was an article in Fast Company, which I guess you didn't read, so maybe I should talk about the real AI story. Fast Company interviewed the guy behind Uber, Amazon, a bunch of real AI solutions, and he sort of did an interview about what AI really is. And I think for our audience because if you're a consumer, you're hearing about all these AI quote products, what does that actually mean? Are these things really AI? And we've talked about it in the past, most of them are decision trees, they get a response and they have an answer, they get another response and they have an answer. Joel : I thought it was important to read this story, share with the audience. This guy broke AI down in two components, one was sort of the front of the house and that was users need to believe that what they're talking to or what they're doing really know them. That they're not talking to a machine- Chad : It's UX. Joel : And the example that they had which I thought was great was, if you have a Google home device, which I do, I'm sure Chad does too, it knows your voice. So, if you say, "Hey Google, play my favorite song." Or, "Hey Google, turn on my favorite channel." It knows it because it knows my voice, it knows my behavior, it knows my history, that's real AI from a consumer facing standpoint. Joel : From a back of the house standpoint, and I think this is probably more challenging in terms off development or real AI's when you can permanently separate a human from the programming or the learning component. The example the guy gave was, if someone gets an MRI at a hospital, and it can automatically without a doctor telling it what to do or programming it, cross-reference your MRI with thousands of others and determine what you have, the severity ... I'm not a doctor, so whatever that language is, that's real AI. If a doctor doesn't have to get involved to give you a diagnosis or get your diagnosis for you, that's real AI because a human is totally devoid of participation. Chad : Right. Let's think about this in the hiring world because we talk about AI machine learning, all that shit all the time. It has to be predictive, and it has to understand context. If you take a look at all the AI that's out there today, it has to, if it is AI really, it has to understand years of hiring decisions, why did you make these hiring decisions, and also retention. So that it can help all the way through in being able to choose the right types of individuals who will obviously come in and work well within the organization because they stay retained. Not to mention also all the employee summary information and so on and do forth. Chad : It's got to take all these data and then be more of a contextual and predictive measure providing you with the right candidates. That's what it has to be able to do. So, if it doesn't do all of that, and it doesn't learn from history and what's happening day to day, then it's really not to the point of AI where it's helping, really making decisions but helping you make better decisions. Joel : Yeah. And I think the historical context is really important. If you look at what companies are in a position to know where did you graduate from school, what degree did you have, what was your first job, what was your second job, what did you do, what was the title, what were your endorsements or information or contacts, what were your projects from that job. To me it's like ding, ding, ding, Linkedin. Linkedin in association with their sugar daddy Microsoft, is in a really good position to understand a job seeker from the moment they go to college to that first, second job to understand, hey, you've done this, based on that, we think this is a great opportunity. And hey employer, this is a great candidate for you because of their sort of historical journey. Joel : To me, that's where AI really comes in and we really get into something that's matching what we've being talking about, matching for a long time. To me, if the employer doesn't have to get involved and the candidate doesn't have to really even look for a job, that to me is like when we get to a nirvana for employment. And maybe I would say Linkedin and Microsoft are poised to do that, I think Facebook could do it, and I think Google could do it as well. All the other players, I don't see it. Chad : Yeah. I think simply we go back to the Walmart piece, you've got a piece of machinery that can do this little tasks that are kind of getting you to that point, that's where we are at right now, being able to understand more and [inaudible 00:26:41] context. That's where we're going. But to be able to classify as AI today, I think it's definitely over classifying it because it's not, not yet. Joel : Overselling. Chad : That's it. Joel : They're overselling AI. Yeah, because I tell a bot my name and then they ask me can I drive a car or do I have a license and then they say, "Oh, here are some driving jobs." That's just decision trees stuff, that's not AI. And we'll we get there? Probably. It will take, but don't get hornswoggled into believing that is what it isn't. And yes, I said hornswoggle because we're in the mid-west and hornswoggle is in our lexicon. Joel : Okay. To me, we're getting to the mid of the show, if you've stuck around this long, you'll be rewarded by this next segment, which is laying the groundwork for a lot of stuff that we're going to be discovering in terms of Indeed and the struggles they're having, will have, the struggles that companies are having with Google for jobs and what's going on there. I'll let you sort of frame it first Chad, you were on a webinar with KRT, which is an agency. And they talked about Google for jobs and some of the data, what was some of the highlights for you from that experience? Chad : I had two major take aways, number one, only 37% of fortune 500 companies are being indexed into Google for jobs. And this is research that KRT is doing. The bulk of companies are not actually getting their jobs into Google for jobs, the actual THE search engine, that everybody uses every single day. So, that was number one. Chad : Number two, AdWords pricing around jobs or job terms, go figure, this is not going to surprise you at all, has increased dramatically. This is going to affect obviously this entire market, which I think that was Googles plan in the first place, to be able to start win back that search traffic that they really weren't getting before, at least staying with them and then also being able to monetize it where it was going to the Google for jobs at the time, which Indeed called themselves, and now it's going to the actual Google for jobs. Joel : I think your term for that was, boot in the ass, I'm I right on that one? Chad : Gave them a boot in the ass, that's for sure. Joel : KRT, apparently those were, was it 37%? Chad : Yeah, 37%. Joel : 37% are in Google for jobs. Now, my guess is fortune 500, a lot of them are posting on Linkedin, Career Builder, Monster etc cetera. But they're probably getting their jobs on Google for jobs through those job boards. But I think we both agree it's just a matter of time before they go directly to Google for jobs as opposed to going through a job board. And I fully expect that 37% number to go up significantly year over year, getting to at least 80% I would say in the next five years. Chad : Yeah. And I would assume that that would happen fairly quick because we're also hearing rumblings that Indeed traffic, or the quality of Indeed traffic is going down dramatically as well. Their number of candidates, the amount of candidates- Joel : That's Indeed's marketing department or sales department. Chad : So, the quality of the traffic is actually going down dramatically. I mean, what do you do as a company? And Indeed is looking to raise their prices. And in some cases, it looks like they're looking to triple their prices. Some companies are ... At least to us, behind closed doors, are talking about 35% more and more. So, 30% increases, which is pretty incredible. Joel : These are people that Chad and I know that we trust, that won't go on the record, but we have no reason to believe that they would lie to us because no reward for them. It seems to be Indeed is definitely increasing prices, 30% to 40% in some cases that we're hearing. These price increases are stretching budgets quite a bit from people that we're talking to. One of my contacts told me that they posted the exact same job at the exact same time on ZipRecruiter, which by the way ZipRecruiter is really in bed big time with Google for jobs. So, the ZipRecruiter job was definitely on Google for jobs. But this person received in 24 hours, I want to say 49 candidates from ZipRecruiter at a cost of two cents a resume or apply. And on Indeed that had 10 applicants as opposed to 49 or 50. And the cost was about six times more from Indeed. Joel : This is one example of someone that's going to say, we'll going to shift more money to ZipRecruiter and less money to Indeed, and I have to think that's going to be a trend that can [crosstalk 00:32:03] Chad : Oh yeah. And also we're also seeing Indeed start to mess with their organic listings. And I don't know if this is just a negotiation tactic to say, hey, either pay us or we're going to rip you out of, we're going to unplug you from the organic, or really diminish your returns from the organic. But again, I don't think that this is working out in their favor. They feel like this is a big hammer for them, but we just saw yesterday, which I thought was amazing, a case study of a client who was unplugged entirely from Indeed's organic listings, and their traffic just dropped off, just boomed into the basement. But it was picked up by Google for jobs and pretty much that traffic was replaced almost overnight by Google for jobs without spending any money, ridiculous. Joel : Which is money that probably would have gone to Indeed because historically that person would have been, Oh hell, all my traffic is gone, I need to pay Indeed to get back on their index, get back in terms of advertising on Indeed. Now, that person says, F Indeed, Google for jobs is replacing all the traffic that I used to get from you for free. Chad : This is so reminiscent of Monster in it's heyday. To be quite frank, they had to do stupid shit and they were ass holes in some cases where the negotiation practice was, well, screw you. You're not going to pay us, then guess what? You're not going to get X. And I hope this is not what we're going to see from Indeed. I hope that's not the case, I'm not saying that that's what's happening, but when you're talking about messing with all these different moving parts and clients ... I mean, I had more than one client actually reach out to me and say, I'm confused about the pricing because every time a rep comes to me, it's a different price and they've changed things. And then they've also started to take away our unlimited messaging abilities, and they're making us pay differently for that. Chad : I mean, there are just all these different things that are happening at this point, it almost feels like indeed is in panic mode. Joel : Yeah, which I think they have been since Google for Jobs launched. And I think the mass advertising, offline advertising that they've being doing is a sign of sort of saying like, oh shit, let's get the traffic back up because I'm sure internally they're seeing traffic down, people going directly through Google for jobs directly to job boards. They're trying to supplement that traffic through traditional advertising and trying to figure it out on the way as to what they do, raising prices is certainly a way to help fund those TV ads to get that traffic in. But we don't know internally what traffic is and if the TV commercials are supplementing what they were getting from Google. If they are, they're going to have to raise prices because commercials on CNN and what not are a lot more expensive than getting that Google organic ranking for Houston jobs that they used to enjoy. Chad : It's not sustainable. We talked about this months and months ago when they made the decision, they being Indeed made the decision not to play with Google for jobs. To be able to regain the lost traffic that I guarantee they're seeing, they're going to have to spend more money on AdWords. We just found out that AdWords is actually costing more than it used to for AdWords especially when it comes to jobs. That has actually gone up more, it's going to cost them more today just than what they were doing before and they have to up the ante on what they were doing before because of lost traffic. Chad : Second, you can't continue ... I know from my Monster days, you cannot continue to spend the type of dollars on traditional advertising like TV advertising and create half a million dollar Ads, it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable unless you raise prices dramatically. Joel : Yeah. And as long as people can go to ZipRecruiter or whoever else and get a lot bigger bang for a lot less buck, that's what they're going to do. And consumers are much more savvy now than they were 10 years ago. Would you agree with that? Chad : Oh yeah. Joel : It's going to be much harder for Indeed to just charge something and people sign it and be done with their rubber stamping. People are actually looking at how much resumes cost, and how many candidates are getting from certain sources, and the scrutiny on where they want to put their dollars and post their jobs is getting tougher and tougher. I think like we said, we knew when Google for jobs came on the scene, we knew it was going to challenging for Indeed. We've continually talked about and we're sort of starting to see the sprouts of what is happening with Indeed, what people are saying, what Indeed's reaction is to what's going on and I think we both agree non of it points at anything good for Indeed in the future. Chad : No. And I've heard only good things about ZipRecruiter. In this conversation ZipRecruiter next and Career builder. These are the opportunities for these companies and companies like them to be the good guys, to be the here, to come and say you know what, that's bullshit, I can't believe they're doing that to you, but guess what? We're going to hook you up and this is what we're going to do. It's just play the hero, jump in there and I hope once again, Indeed figures stuff out because this is not ... Again, you take a look at history, this is not how you want to treat the market, this is not how you want to treat your clients. Joel : All right, let's do over under one year for Indeed to start getting their unique content onto Google for Jobs. Chad : In a year, I'd say they have to within a year. Joel : So under? Chad : Yeah. Joel : I'll say under too. I don't think they can ignore it. Chad : Like I said, and this is the boot in the ass podcast, if you haven't listened to that one guys, you have to go back and listen to boot in the ass podcast. There are going to be Oliver coming back for more growl it's all there is to it, man. They need to, they need to beg for it because ... And like you said, Google will say, yeah, come on in, join the party. They totally get that. But they're not going to be able to continue to do what they're currently doing. Joel : I will say that one of the contacts did say that Indeed still has the best database to search, which I think is a big plus for them, which I also think ties into Google for jobs really nicely because most people would agree that applying through Indeed is pretty user-friendly. If searching for jobs on Google for Jobs shows you the job and says, hey, are the ways you can apply to this job. If indeed has a really good pool of data or people that are in it, and people know that it's easy to apply through Indeed, there is a really good chance that they'll choose Indeed to apply through Google for Jobs. But guess what, if Indeed isn't even playing, no one is going to Indeed to apply anymore. Chad : And that database with entropy much like Monster's. I mean, it will entropy, so they better make that switch, they better make the plan very quickly because to me it's obviously a kick in the nuts but it's the smart play for them. It's the smart play for them. Joel : Well, it just gets curioser and curiouser. Unfortunately, Indeed has coal in and stocking the share [crosstalk 00:39:41] but hopefully who doesn't have coal is our listeners because we love them and we try to give them the best every week with great content hopefully, and we appreciate everyone out there and hope that they have a great December leading up to Christmas. We'll continue being here week in and week out talking about these issues and Indeed will certainly be at the forefront as companies decide on where they spend their money going into next year. We'll get the nitty gritty on where people are going and what contracts look like etc cetera. And we'll be here talking about that on the show. Chad : As we get closer to more holidays, Joel will become more Sappy, just so everybody knows that. And definitely listen for our firing squads to be able to take a look at what's going on on startups and check out ChadCheese.com, we've being making some changes to the site and we appreciate the listenership. Joel : Yep. And #ChadCheese, we will give you a shout out more than likely if you say something smart, snarky, or just intelligent. Just call Chad looking and you'll get a shout out. Go Bucks, big 10 title this week, we need that playoff spot, and- Chad : Knock on wood. Joel : We need Joe Shaker - Shaker advertising to cry in his eggnog. We out. Chad : We out. Outro: This is been the Chad and Cheese podcast. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single show. And check out our sponsors because they make it all possible. For more visit hirerdaily.com, oh, and you're welcome. #Indeed #Twitter #WeWork #MeetUp #AI #Robots #WalMart

The boys hit the road this week, Rocky Mountain High-style in Denver, Colorado to light up the TAtech show. To kick the show off, they announced a partnership with the conference, as well as their newest sponsor Nexxt (formerly Beyond). In return for a their donation, Nexxt will get an exclusive podcast each month, as well as a buttload of awesome content, including webinars, infographics, feats of strength … whatever gets the listeners to pay attention. The Chad and Cheese Podcast got to follow Facebook Jobs and their laundry list of announcements, including a new API that will get them knee-deep into a relationship with the likes of ZipRecruiter, Work4 and Jobscore. Needless to say, Chad and Cheese had a lot to say about the presentation. After that, the guys took aim at Google, LinkedIn, Indeed, Dice, CareerBuilder, Monster … all the usual suspects. It’s a can’t miss 30,000-foot overview of the platform wars currently proliferating the employment scene in the U.S. and most of the world. Enjoy. And be sure to visit our newest Sponsor, Nexxt, and be sure to tune in for our Oct. 17 webinar with the CEO of TextRecruit. Knowledge will be dropped. You need to pick it up. #TATech #Nexxt #Facebook #Google #Denver #Roadshow #LinkedIn #Indeed #Dice #Careerbuilder #Monster #LIVE

Right before our very first Chad & Cheese LIVE show at TAtech Programmatic Summit in Minneapolis. #Video #Programmatic #TAtech #LIVE

Good question... Ho does Chad and Joel create recruitment industry podcasting magic? #Video #Podcast #Topics