LIVE Philly Q&A
They didn't hold back on the questions at Recruit Philly so we didn't hold back on the answers and/or opinion.
Check 'em out.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
SHOW INTRO: After our live podcast on stage at Recruit Philly, we had a little Q and A, so we thought we'd share. Here it is, after a word from our sponsor.
Chad: Dude, we're always talking about cool new tech but it's hard for hiring companies to change. I mean, adoption's a bitch.
Chad: New tech can get them to qualified candidates so much faster.
Joel: I know, man, but recruiters already have their routine in place and nobody wants to jump into another platform, especially when it's expensive and also requires hours, maybe days of training.
Chad: Exactly. But that's where Uncommon's new service comes into play. Uncommon pairs expert recruiters with in-house, kick-ass technology.
Joel: All right. Interesting. Interesting. It sounds like Uncommon understands the problem of change.
Chad: That's why they hand select veteran recruiters, train them on this kick-ass technology that has access to over 100 million active profiles.
Joel: Yeah, yeah. But I bet they're expensive and I bet it requires some kind of annual commitment or contract, right?
Chad: Nah, man. Uncommon is not an agency. They don't require a contract, any contingencies. All they do, they charge one flat fee per project, saving, I don't know, anywhere from 50 to 80 percent on each hire versus the average agency cut.
Joel: Oh, snap! Companies could save big stacks of paper, especially if they're rapidly scaling and need hires today.
Joel: Change doesn't have to be a pain if you're using Uncommon.
Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman.
Attendee: Why is there so much adversity to using search firms, do you think?
Joel: Money, cost.
Chad: Yeah, I mean, there's a cost. There's a cost.
Joel: You're expensive.
Chad: Yeah. There's a cost associated to that.
Attendee: So are the other things, expensive.
Chad: Yeah, well, they are. They are. And, here's the thing for any search firm...
Joel: Winning isn't free. Right?
Chad: Any search firm, I'm biased because I have an RPO background, or at least a little bit of an RPO background, is that RPO's and staffing really have to sell the efficiencies and not just what you have to bear but what you can perspectively bring to their databases. Like we're talking about you spent so much money on what you do. You're not using it now. Let's help you actually utilize and leverage that data that's in your system.
Joel: And interesting, in your space, you're starting to see hybrids. Where we'll have people source candidates and we'll deliver you, like, ten people that we think are qualified. But, they're not going to actually staff them for you. So, they'll sort of... They'll get you to the nine yard line but then you have to take it across the goal line.
Chad: So, yeah, so slate. So, Uncommon actually just added a service to what they're doing, They're a sponsor and what they do is they have an algorithm, that's a sourcing passive algorithm, but they also have an active algorithm. The thing is, most companies are like, "I don't want to go onto another platform." Right? So now they have-
Joel: "Could you do it for me?"
Chad: Yeah, so, "Can you do it for me?". So, yes, now they have recruiters on staff where you can actually dump into it and it's like $5 grand per project or something like that. But, I mean, it's easy to be able to say, "Yes" vs "Oh my god, how many integrations do I have to do? And it's not in my system and then I have to do training". And, when all that goes away, and it's like we deliver a slate of candidates, that slate is this big or this big, then it turned into a different conversation. Not to mention, again, the cost conversation happens.
Joel: Big problem with staffing is everyone is online now. So, the days of 'I have a hidden database of people', those days are gone, right? People feel like they can access the same people that you can so, that's tough.
Chad: Whether they can or not, it's still the perception and that's the reality, right?
Joel: People are still lazy so you got that going for you.
Attendee: Count on that.
Chad: Fucking humans, man. Fucking humans.
Joel: I'm getting a point. Oh, a question, yes.
Allie: Over here. Hi, thanks for coming to Philly.
Joel: What's your name and who do you work for?
Ally: I'm Ally. I'm with Recruit Philly, most importantly.
Joel: Nice. Wow, they liked that.
Ally: So, two questions.
Joel: Sucking up to the show.
Allie: Yeah, two questions, do you need another beer?
Joel: Eventually, yes. We're almost done.
Allie: Okay. All right, one for Chad, cheese on hold. Okay, we'll take care of that.
Joel: Yeah, you guys know this beer, it's a local one, right? Victory?
Allie: Yeah, we know Victory.
Joel: Oh, damn.
Joel: This shit is jawn, boy, yeah.
Allie: Nice plug. Nice plug.
Joel: Yeah, get me one more of those.
Allie: So, second question, you talked about several different vendors but Indeed didn't come up. Any thoughts on the future of Indeed, their applicability, their-
Joel: So, yeah, can we add 30 minutes to the show?
Allie: ...what they're doing to be innovative? Sure, at happy hour, come to happy hour and we can talk about it then.
Joel: [crosstalk 00:05:07] Thoughts on indeed. Uh, yeah I mean two things on Indeed: one is that they're getting very cocky, they're getting very sort of, Monster, 2006. Like, "Our shit don't stink. You better bend over backwards. You're going to take our pricing and like it." And the history of this industry says that doesn't work out very well for the company that has that attitude. So, aside from the bigger boys getting into it, I think they just... they have a hubris about them that is very dangerous for them and their business.
Joel: The second thing is they have competitors, now, that they've never had before in the likes of Microsoft, LinkedIn and Google and to a lesser degree, Facebook which we haven't talked much about. But, let's just focus on Google and LinkedIn and Microsoft. There's potentially going to be a day where the whole, "What software do we use?" Is out of the hands of HR and it's in the hands of IT. And IT says, "We're a Microsoft shop, we're going to use LinkedIn" or "We're a Google shop, we're going to use this Google hire, whatever thing is." And, you as HR, is just going to take it because IT has the money and they make the decisions. So, in a world that looks like that, where is Indeed's place in that ecosystem? I think they're very challenged. We didn't mention, but probably some of you know, Indeed does not put their jobs into Google for jobs. So, if your job is on Indeed only, it's not on Google for jobs, at least not in the US. It's maybe on a porn site in Germany but it's not here in the US.
Chad: You'd get some good traffic.
Joel: So they're incredibly... They may not say it publicly but they're very concerned and worried about what Google is doing and going to do their business. And you're probably noticing a lot of calls about different products at Indeed that you can buy or our ATS or "Hey, we have a staffing firm now." I'm of the opinion that they'll become more of a staffing firm ten years from now, right? They're actually owned by a staffing firm out of Japan, one of the biggest in the world. So, to me, that's eventually where they're going to go. Thank you. So-
Chad: Thank you.
Joel: So that's just my two comments on Indeed. I think they're very, very cocky and that's going to come to bite them in the ass. And, number two, they have competitors that they've never seen before and they're not quite sure how to handle it and I'm not sure they will find out, or figure out how to handle it.
Chad: Yeah. I think I have the title for this show. It's going to be Recruit Philly going, "Fuck Indeed".
Joel: Jawn is the title of this show.
Chad: Fuck Indeed.
Joel: Two jawn motherfuckers is the title of the show.
Chad: Here's the problem with Indeed, is that they were built by job boards and they were built by staffing companies. And they fucked them both. So let's make this clear, corporate America, what do you think is going to happen next? If you're currently using Indeed, because I have to use Indeed, bullshit, You have to look for other alternatives because that behavior is not something we can stand for, period. It is total bullshit that anybody is putting up with that and it's not right, overall. Again, the company was built on being able to help job boards on the traffic side, being able to help staffing companies on the traffic side. And you're starting to see employers get leveraged into, "Wait a minute, you're free traffic is going to go away-
Joel: Indeed jail, baby.
Chad: -free traffic is going to go. Search quality" Which is all fucking bullshit.
Joel: You can check in but you can't check out.
Chad: Yes, so if you don't start looking for alternative now to get the hell out of there, hey, you heard it here and it's all your fault, nobody else's.
Joel: You suck.
Chad: So get the hell out. Next question, after that.
Joel: Yes, brave man in the front here. Oh wait, we got- Yeah.
Joel: Bring it.
Attendee: Back in 2016, Randstad got so upset with Indeed's pricing that they acquired Monster for $429 million. Do you think that was a good buy?
Chad: That's a big no and unfortunately-
Joel: That's an easy question.
Chad: Yeah, I think, unfortunately, I mean, I was actually... I just left Ranstad right when that was happening.
Chad: Yeah, it's-
Joel: Well, we just said at the opening of this show of CareerBuilder and what's going on there a year from now, might be less than a year from now. We'll be talking about happening at Monster.
Chad: Yeah, I mean, having a private equity come in and slash and burn, you expect that. Randstad has a longer... they're going to give Monster a longer runway, there's no question. The problem I see is that runway, they're just about to the end of it. And, unfortunately, Monster Studios, if that's the product that you have to give to me in 2019 and that is 'the' product that you're giving to me in 2019, to hang your hat on, man, that's going to suck.
Joel: And what sucks is, I mean, I wouldn't say weekly but pretty regularly, we're talking about on the show innovation at Google, LinkedIn. Incremental features and additions, I grant you, but we almost never talk about innovative stuff that's coming out of Monster, CareerBuilder, Dice, any of the old players. And, to me, that just says they're milking the dollars as long as they can until they can't milk it anymore.
Chad: It's a lot of fluff unfortunately.
Joel: It's hard to compete with Microsoft and Google and that' just the reality of our world today.
Chad: Are we going to do one more? One more.
Attendee: So, clearly, you guys are a couple of opinionated guys. I'd like to hear, how did you guys get started in your careers and that would help me understand what forms your opinion-
Joel: I needed the money.
Attendee: Right. Money troubles. So we're just-
Chad: Quit being an asshole.
Joel: Quit? That's our show, dude.
Chad: That's our jawn. Get that shit right.
Joel: I don't know, I mean, long story short, twenty years ago I got a job at a job board. Twenty years later, I'm still talking about job boards. Thankfully, for me, blogs came around, podcasts came around, YouTube came around and I got a larger audience that I could talk shit to.
Chad: So, yeah, he was with e-SPAN. He should throw that out more because, if you know what e-SPAN is, it was one of the very first on the web. I was with OCC, one of the very first on the web. We launched-
Joel: We were better.
Chad: Yeah. We launched Monster in January of '99 so I was there for the blimps and the Super Bowl commercials and all that other happy horse shit, before they turned into assholes, by the way. I mean, it's just... We've both been in for 20 years a piece.
Joel: We started when we were six.
Chad: Yeah, and right now, I have to say in closing, this is the most interesting, exciting time in this entire industry. Getting online, we were there. We were there when the first ones were built, right? This is more exciting, watching all these start-ups just, like, explode. All the ideas. Execution probably not so much but, I mean, overall it is the most exciting time and it's one of the reasons why, I think, our podcast is flourished because there's so much going on. To be able to keep plugged into that, you've got to do something, a shit load... ton of research or listen to us.
Joel: It's exciting as podcasters. It may not be as exciting as consumers. A
lot of noise out there that you guys get to filter.
Chad: Yes, and just for all of you as we go off the stage, we have some Chad and Cheese T-shirts if you can, again, see the-
Joel: Being modeled by-
Chad: -wonderful Nancy and Isabelle, look over…
Joel: ...Our big fans.
Chad: Isabelle. We'd be more than happy to give out a few of those
Joel: Love it.
Chad: They're... I'm not going to charge you, for god's sakes. They're free. Thanks-
Joel: You guys have been awesome.
Chad: Thanks to Emissary.
Joel: Thank you guys. Let the world hear it, Philly.
Chad: Thanks, guys.
Tristen: Hi, I'm Tristen. Thanks for listening to my step-dad, the Chad, and his goofy friend Cheese. You've been listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. Make sure you subscribe on iTunes, Google Play or wherever you get your podcasts, so you don't miss out on all the knowledge dropping that's happening up in here. They made me say that. The most important part is to check out our sponsors because I need new track spikes. You know, the expensive, shiny, gold pair that are extra because, well, I'm extra. For more, visit chadcheese.com.