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FIRING SQUAD: Applichat's Adam Chambers

Is it a chatbot? Is it a Facebook advertising platform? Is it bound for global domination? Well, let's not get carried away here, but Applichat brings its goods to the Firing Squad. To say Chad & Cheese are split on this one would be an understatement. Opinions clash on this episode for sure.

Brought to you by Talroo.


Joel: So it's totally data driven talent attraction, which means the Talroo platform enables recruiters to reach the right talent at the right time and at the right price.

Chad: Guess what the best part is?

Joel: Let me take a shot here. You only pay for the candidates Talroo delivers.

Chad: Holy shit. Okay, so you've heard this before. So if you're out there listening in podcast land and you are attracting the wrong candidates, and we know you are, or you feel like you're in a recruiting hamster wheel and there's just nowhere to go, right, you can go to Again, that's and learn how Talroo can get you better candidates for less cash.

Joel: Or just go to and click on the Talroo logo. I'm all about the simple.

Chad: You are a simple man.

Intro: Like Shark Tank? Then you'll love Firing Squad. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to put their recruiting industry's bravest, ballsiest and baddest startups through the gauntlet to see if they've got what it takes to make it out alive. Dig a foxhole and duck for cover, kids. Chad and Cheese podcast is taking it to a whole other level.

Joel: Oh yeah. Firing squad is back. Mark Cuban ain't got shit on us.

Chad: That's right, bitches.

Joel: What's up, Chad?

Chad: What's up, Cheese?

Joel: I feel like it's been a while. My gun's a little rusty.

Chad: It sounds like a personal problem.

Joel: I did have my vasectomy recently.

Chad: My shit's all oiled up and ready to go.

Joel: You're all lubricated. Nice. Nice. I've got to get that going. All right, on today's Firing Squad, please welcome everybody, Apple iChat, or I mean Applichat, or I mean apply chat. We'll get to that later, but Adam Chamber from startup Applichat, I'll go with that, is here straight out of Belfast, calling in from Mexico. Adam, welcome to the show.

Adam: Hola, chicos. Good to be here. Thank you.

Joel: What the fuck did you just say?

Adam: You don't want to know.

Joel: You fecker.

Adam: Fecker.

Joel: I was going to ask Adam what his favorite Irish whiskey was, but from his LinkedIn profile he looks about 13 so I won't ask.

Chad: Which means he's been drinking for about 10 years.

Joel: That's why he's in Mexico.

Adam: Daintily poised on 10 emoji cushions right now.

Joel: Yeah, that's right. Baby bottle. That's what he had growing up in Belfast. No. Welcome to the show, Adam.

Adam: Thank you very much. It's good to be here. I've been listening profusely. Perhaps too much.

Joel: Long time listener, first time start up on the show. So Adam, give us a little bit about you, which I'm guessing is about two years of professionalism. And then Chad will describe the rules to you. And then we'll get into it.

Adam: Sweet. Okay. So, hi, my name's Adam. I'm 22 years old. I left university with thinning hair and big ambitions, but I couldn't find a girlfriend and I didn't really fit in back at home. So I decided to start a business and move to Mexico. So I'm here, single, bilingual, ready to mingle with some HR podcasters. Yeah, marketing's always interested me for about 10 years since I was selling virtual football card in school. Now I'm applying the skills I've learned over that time to make recruitment less stressful, because life's too short for wasting time on boring hiring processes.

Joel: You are living the gen Z dream basically. I'm a little bit jealous,

got to know. All right.

Adam: What gen are you?

Joel: I'm a gen X-er as this chat. A little known fact about us is we are a day apart. He is one day older than me officially.

Adam: Okay. Older and wiser.

Joel: Yeah, so you would have been born in what year? My math is not good.

Adam: 1997.

Joel: '97 very nice. All right, Chad. Well for being on the firing squad, tell him what he's about to win.

Chad: All right, Adam, you will have two minutes to pitch Applichat. At the end of those two minutes, you will hear the bell. Then Joel and I will hit you with rapid fire Q and A. If your answers start to suck or they ramble or they've just taken too long Joel's going to hit here with the crickets. This is your signal to tighten up your game. At the end of Q and A you will receive one of these three. Either a big applause, get that bank account ready. Golf clap, you're getting there, but you can do much better. Or, this is what you don't want, the firing squad, hit the bricks, close up shop, pull out the drawing board because that shit needs to go home. That's the firing squad.

Joel: Grab a Corona, get a siesta and reevaluate things.

Chad: That's right. Are you ready?

Joel: Any questions?

Adam: Yeah. What sort of guns are you using?

Chad: Those are M240s.

Adam: I see you brought it. Okay.

Joel: Do you know your guns? What, were you in the IRA or something? What?

Adam: No, I was a bomb maker. Anyway, let's go. All right.

Joel: You guys are so quick. All right. Are you ready to pitch your product?

Adam: Absolutely.

Joel: All right. In three, two...

Adam: Okay, I'm on Instagram every day, know the job boards and LinkedIn combined, but finding and hiring them has been historically difficult for recruiters. Successful odds require experience and budget per targeting leads to hoards of unqualified applicants. And crucially, many recruiters aren't aware that 98% of Facebook's ad revenue comes from mobile clicks. Making people leave the platform. If you're a normal mobile optimized career site turns otherwise interested talent away to the next cut picture. This raises cost per application and it loses you revenue and opportunity on the world's largest pool of passive candidates.

Adam: That's where Applichat comes in. We help high volume recruiters source automatically pre-screen and allocate candidates directly to their ATS. Our solution uses Facebook ads and Messenger to provide a seamless conversational application without disrupting your charge workflow. So I'm going to talk about the process now. Number one, we set up six creative ads which provoke the engagement, which Facebook's algorithm favors. Rather than saying we're hiring, all ads must focus on the audience's peons and tell their own story. Number two, all the clickers are introduced to the role of Messenger while simultaneously being pre-screened by the talking job ad.

Adam: The chat bot messaging and follow ups makes it impossible for basically unqualified people to waste time on applying. And it sends automated follow ups to the 90% who usually don't apply immediately. If they are qualified, they can then make an application through Messenger. They can book an interview straight into recruiters' calendars or be sent to a prefilled application form. It all takes place on the same interface where people are used to informal emotional interactions such as love, joy, longing, desire, the reasons people change jobs.

Adam: So our best results have seen 70 HR staff free to do more productive work, 50% drop in cost per hire, and a decrease in interview no show by 40%. And since launching six months ago I've learned a lot, and we've been working really hard for handle full of clients based in the Philippines.

Joel: Thank you, Adam.

Chad: Thank you, Adam.

Joel: For our listeners, where can they find out more?

Adam: So if you want to find out more, go to and you could get a 1,000 phones, $1 referral bonus.

Joel: And spell that for our listeners.

Adam: A-P-P-L-I dot C-H-A-T forward slash cheese.

Joel: Right on, Chad. Get him.

Chad: Giving them the cheese. So I heard something in there around anti ghosting magic. Tell me a little bit about your anti ghosting magic. We've heard it from other chat platforms, but what makes yours different and why? Was it 40% that you were cutting on the no show rate? Tell us a little bit about that.

Adam: Yeah, so because we're using Facebook Messenger, people are always in the inbox. And compared to email, it's about four times the open rate. So to decrease that interview no show we just sent every couple of days or so updates, help, and advice about the interview. So instead of kind of forgetting about it or disregarding it, people are constantly being checked in with, being made to feel that they were valued and that they should actually go to the interview. So yeah, it's quite make people happy and what actually do-

Chad: So the platform is predicated on Facebook Messenger only, is that correct?

Adam: Yeah. So right now it's focusing just on Facebook Messenger, just to keep things kind of hyper focused, kind of use that as a springboard in the future to expand into text.

Chad: Okay. So what differentiates you from the other bigger players that do Facebook already, but they also branch out and they do SMS, they do WhatsApp, they do all these other social messaging mediums? What differentiates you and why should a company come to you over them?

Adam: So the major differentiator is we run the ads for recruiters. Recruitment job ads on Facebook have the lowest click through rate of any category and 50% less than real estate. And the problem is just recruiters don't know how to do it. They don't know what the algorithm favors and they post stuff which doesn't get promoted by Facebook ahead of more engaging advertisements. So where other platforms simply make the chat bot, we take a bit of the sourcing burden on Facebook and actually manage your ad campaign for you.

Chad: So I feel weird that a gen Z is relying so much on Facebook for their business. I feel like I'm talking to an old gen X-er like us. Do you feel like you're putting too much into Facebook? Don't you fear that from a demographic standpoint younger people aren't using Facebook? And is that a major threat to what you're doing?

Adam: So I think younger people still definitely are using Facebook, especially Facebook Messenger. A while back at university, everyone was deleting it to focus on their studies, then they went and redownloaded it a week later. But they still have Messenger because they want to talk to their friends and they're not going to delete their friends from their lives. I'm kind of focusing in a lot on the Philippines especially, and there about 90% of internet users have Facebook. Their largest is the 25 year olds generation Z demographic. So I mean it is definitely a risk using Facebook as the center of the business and I've been told that by other people, but for now I'm kind of happy to use that as a launch pad because it's such a big opportunity and no one's really focusing on providing sourcing solutions on it either.

Chad: You mentioned a lot of countries, are you targeting a certain geographical area? Is it something for everyone? Marketing wise, what's sort of the focus for you?

Adam: Yeah, so the focus at the moment is the Philippines. It's kind of the candidate reason and the market reason. So Philippines, we spend more time online than any other nationality. As I said, they've got a national average age of 25 compared to 30 in the USA. Because more than 90% of the internet users are on Facebook it's a big opportunity to start streamlining the recruitment process of all the outsourcing companies in the Philippines. So the outsourcing industry is like call centers, customer service, and they're expected to need to hire a million people in the next five years. And they have a massive problem of pre-screening. So everyone wants to apply to these jobs because they're so well paying and above the national average. So I kind of see myself as coming in and raising the amount of people who are actually successful from applying there.

Chad: And what percent speak Gaelic?

Adam: Well I don't even speak Gaelic, so I couldn't tell you.

Chad: So are you focusing on staffing companies as your core client? I mean, who is your target in the Philippines? If you're looking to go after companies, are they companies? Are they recruiters? Who's the product actually for? Who are you trying to sell to?

Adam: So the industry is called BPO, which stands for business process sourcing. Essentially Americans are paying the Philippines to do some of their kind of less skilled jobs, unskilled jobs, but they just want cheaper labor. So the industry is worth several billion dollars and it's kind of on top by companies like mine which provides chat bot solutions. So it's really those BPOs. And the good thing is they're not so risk averse as I find staffing companies in the UK to be. So they've been founded by American - Australian entrepreneurs here just going into a new market and they're kind of more open to taking advantages to stuff like this.

Chad: Instead of going straight to the middleman, which is the BPO, why not start hitting the RPOs in the US who aren't as risk averse as they are in the UK or the EU? Why don't you start going after the big pile of money? Because this is where the money's at. Obviously you can go to the Philippines, and obviously they've got a great penetration rate for Facebook, but is that where the money is? And is that where the longterm strategy should be for you to be able to help an already outprocessing type of strategy versus going straight to where the money is in the first place?

Adam: Yeah. That's a really good point, actually. The way I saw it was it was so well received whenever I went to Philippine and companies and the EP was in the Philippines that this would be a really good kind of testing ground because there's going to be so many applicants going for these roles. So it's more of a low hanging fruit for me, the American RPO market. That is on the roadmap when the company grows a little bit. But yeah, it was just sort of a matter of low hanging fruit to be honest with you.

Chad: So what about this building of ads? Obviously recruiters can't do ads. They're, not marketing professionals to try to train them up to do this. It's just not what they're built to do. And in most cases it's not why they got into the job in the first place. So from my understanding, it sounds like you actually build ads. How many ads do you build per job and how is that facilitated in Facebook?

Adam: So as I said, we start out with six ads, and the point of that is to find which one works the best. So the three different combinations of images and text and then three different audiences. We would go onto their Facebook ads manager, create those, connect them to the chat bot, and then after a few days or so we'd cut the two worst performers. After another few days we cut the two worst four performers, until we have the best performing ads. And this is where it's really different from programmatic where you've maybe only just put one ad up. On Facebook you really want to be testing to find out what your audience is and what your message is. That's what we focus on. So we take off the testing burden.

Joel: So these aren't job descriptions, these are actual advertisements?

Adam: No, these are like stories. These are life stories. Because I mean when people are on Facebook, you need to catch their eye. I mean, people scroll on average 73 feet a day. If I see a job description saying money, location, I'm less likely to click on it. If I see you can change your life by doing X, Y, Z-

Joel: So these are stories. You're not doing the traditional feed ads on Facebook, correct?

Adam: Yeah, absolutely. Because they're too boring. They're very boring.

Joel: And then do the ads direct people who slide up to automatically start chatting with a company? Or is it a landing page? What's the process?

Adam: So it's an automated chat bot, because if you click on just apply now that's going to take you to the career site. And a little many of them are mobile optimized, especially with the big fortune 500s. And my target market with Philippines, they're disgusting. It's just a massive but it's horrible.

Joel: It keeps the user in Facebook. It doesn't take them to the company website or something, which I think is traditionally what our audience thinks about when they think about advertising. This is simply like let's start a conversation now and then there's automated chat and then that person becomes an applicant at some point.

Adam: Yeah. So it's like a congruency between them seeing the ad and them talking through the Messenger. It's a much more seamless experience, and before they know it they started a tentative application.

Joel: Do you think you're more of an ad agency than you are a chat bot? Because it seems to me like the most important thing you do is help people advertise on Facebook and then you're just using the chat bot or the Messenger solution to then create applicants for companies. Am I off base there, or am I right?

Adam: Yeah, well it's a bit of both. So we have some people who they can get leads in using the ads, especially the ones in the Philippines where everyone wants to do the job. And how many have ones who can't source it all and these help with that. The thing, it's not a traditional ad agency because we use a lot of templates. So we kind of have a monster chat bot, which is then white labeled. And then we know what sort of messages work for the ads, so they're all sort of copied and pasted and then altered a little bit. So it's scalable. I'd say it's a scalable ad agency.

Joel: And what kind of results are you getting on the ads, click through rates and whatnot?

Adam: Okay, so I'll give you... Pardon?

Joel: Yeah, go ahead. I'm looking for numbers or what kind of click through rates and engagement you get on these ads.

Adam: Okay. So one company and 152 click the ad in one month and 88% percent of them were basically qualified. So 12% of people clicked, within 30 seconds they were told you're not suitable for this role. And that'll save them a lot of time of time. Of the 152, 13% of them applied, and we actually needed four hires. So from 152 there was four hires, and the span was about $200 on ads.

Joel: Excellent. Thanks.

Chad: So on your website it says your ATS is filled with dead leads. Is that really the case?

Adam: Well, I would say that especially in the Philippines most companies they've had applicants who they forget about because they're not right at the time. And the thing with using the Messenger chat bot is we can actually communicate with the ATS so we can tag someone in the chat bot as being not suitable right now and then give them the offer to be looked into, like an automated sequence where they can receive free stuff basically. And the rule of that is just to keep them sort of active, so to speak.

Chad: So the chat bot actually allows companies to prospectively... Companies have spent hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars on building a resume database that they never touch. And those leads in that database are pretty much a gold mine, probably a bigger gold mine than anywhere else because they've already paid for them. How can your platform... Or can your platform help

them turn that atrophy database into a lead generation database?

Adam: So today I've just been focusing on the people that I source, making them an active database. So the people from the ads continuing them on. What kind of put me off reactivating the database was there's a lot of people doing it. And also it starts that email. I'm kind of trying to focus on the chat aspect of this. I just want to be hyper focused, guys.

Chad: Does it have to focus on email though?

Adam: Well how else can you get them from... I mean you could....

Joel: And I'm curious sort of in light of that, retargeting, right? So you could certainly take all the emails and an ATS upload it to Facebook and then show the ad to those people. Is that something that you're doing? And then secondarily, are you putting any retargeting code on the career site so that people then see the ad when they go to Facebook after visiting and looking for jobs at a company?

Adam: Yeah. So the first one, it's a little bit sketchy because they haven't opted in for that to happen. If the company has in their user agreement that they can use that for marketing, then it's okay. But I mean I didn't want to kind of break the rules so to speak without... Because the thing about using Facebook is you have to toe the line. If you don't you'll be kicked off. I kind of pride Applichat on being the most compliant agency in the space. And the second question, could you remind me what that was?

Joel: So retargeting, so putting in a retargeting code on a career side and then seeing ads.

Adam: Yeah, absolutely. So we put it on the application page of the form, which we are indeed linking to a form. And then they can see the ad. But usually we do it through Messenger so if they've got to a certain stage in Messenger we remind them through Messenger.

Joel: So you're not putting retargeting code on the ATS or the career site, but you could do that in the future?

Adam: Yeah. So we've done it with one client, so yeah, it's certainly possible.

Joel: Okay. And then so keeping with Facebook, so your website says you capture a phone number and an email. Is that captured from the chat or are they asked to submit that information to you? In other words, are you capturing it sort of without them knowing just because they're connecting on Facebook or is that part of the chat process?

Adam: Oh no. So it's all part of the candidate. Rather than scraping databases or reaching out to them cold on LinkedIn we give them the chance to submit that info. So what I ask is consent to our privacy policy by sending your email. And then the email address pops up as a quick reply. So that's just a little pop up. All they need to do is click a button and then they've given the email address and opted in at the same time. About 98% of people go past that step.

Joel: All right. All right. I want to get in to some of the business perspective on this. You're promising a weekly video call with your customers. Is that scalable? Is that realistic? How does that work and will you keep doing it when you're super huge and famous?

Adam: I'm famous now, mate. No, it's definitely not scalable. It's not scalable at all.

Joel: So that will be eliminated from the website at some point?

Adam: Yes, at some point. So the thing is at the start treating the clients really well so we have a good reputation. I mean there's still a lot of close contact because we're all about chatting, but I mean that will be taken out in the future.

Joel: Do they like the video calls, or is that sort of bothersome for them?

Adam: No. Well, the thing is not all of them take the weekly call. It's just on the table if they want to be kept up to date we do it. Because I'm just starting out I love it because it's talking to other business people in the same space and helping them.

Joel: Yeah. Well, you're 22. The education is probably invaluable to you. Old people like us don't want to talk to anybody. So I'm curious, have you raised money? Are you looking to raise money? I mean, your contact us email on the website is your direct email address. So is this going to stay small? Do you want it to be big? Talk about that.

Adam: Yeah. So in the next couple of years I don't plan to raise money. I want to keep it a kind of small agency where I work with contractors. We basically provide a really focused service to say 20, 30 clients. That's kind of just a personal choice for me where I want to see how the business starts to grow. And if it's something which is appealing then I'm going to take it to the next level and maybe seek a bit of funding. However, I'm thinking in two year blocks at the moment.

Chad: A lifestyle game is not a bad game to play. On the website it actually says, "What you need is automation to do the heavy lifting." So what heavy lifting are you actually taking off the recruiter's shoulders? And how much time are you giving back to a recruiter in about a week? I mean, so if you take a look at just a week's time frame, how much time are you giving them back and where is it at?

Adam: So for our clients, the main problem is prescreening on qualified candidates. So they would maybe get hundreds of people in each week and only 30% to 40% of them will be useful. What we do is automatically take those people out at the very early stages within one minute. So if it takes about a minute to chuck someone away and if they're doing say 100 of those a week, then that's 90 minutes a week. We have a client, they're a Chinese company, but they have an office in the Philippines and they move seven staff in the more human facing kind of different HR rules. So I guess with them we save several hours a week. The big part of it is taking automatable tasks out of recruiters' hands and letting them do stuff that they're trained to do and enjoy doing.

Chad: Okay. So what's your end goal here? Are you looking at making just this a lifestyle business? You have 20 or 30 companies and maybe grow that to 50 over the next five years and just be happy with that? Or are you looking for more grander acquisition or growing into a platform? What are you looking for as a digital nomad?

Adam: Okay. Yep. Well, personally for me, I would like to grow it to the point where I don't need to worry about money and I have an income that kind of makes anything possible for my lifestyle. So as you said, the nice point would be 30 to 40 clients and to be five or six contractors managing those accounts with me. Looking longterm, I would like to sell the business once it's got to that stage. So I mean I'm not thinking of put it on the stock market or trying to create a multimillion pound empire. For me, this is a lifestyle business, which I think can help a lot of people remove the stress from recruitment.

Joel: So Adam, I'm going to let you out on this. Talk about pricing because one, I'm sure there's pricing for the service, but then you've got pricing for the advertisement and how much is the company spending? And I'm sure you have to go through a recommendation for how much they should spend. Is it pretty customizable per deal? Can you standardize pricing? Talk about that.

Adam: Yeah, so it's a bit of both. It's $1,000 a month and then there's performance based add on. So that could range from $5 to $25 per application depending on what they're actually paying recruiters. So, for example, if a company wants to make 20 hires, maybe they need 200, 250 applicants. If we charge them $5 per applicant on top of our $1,000, and if they pay $1,000 for ads, that's $3,000 they've spent on 20 hires, which I think is a pretty good deal considering they're pan about 500 to 600.

Joel: So they're paying for application, so they're not worrying about how much the advertising costs. You're just making sure that you're paying less for an applicant than they are. And Facebook is getting the difference, I guess.

Adam: Yeah, pretty much. So the benchmark is what they're paying recruiters for the candidates.

Joel: Okay.

Adam: Yeah.

Joel: So 1,000 and then 25 for every applicant that they want?

Adam: I mean, it depends on the audience. So if they're targeting IT specialists, then that's going to be a higher cost per lead in terms of Facebook's charge. So then we'd raise the $5.

Joel: So nurses would be more than, I don't know, servers or something?

Adam: Yeah, more or less.

Joel: Okay. All right. There it is. All right, Adam. We have come to the end of our Q and A and it's time for you to face the firing squad.

Chad: Here it is.

Adam: Yeah, that's good. Kill me.

Joel: Irregardless of what kind of guns we're using, I'm going to go first. So I think that when we grade a company or give feedback or become critical, it's easy to get into the everyone should want to be super rich and famous and go IPO or be bought for $100 million. But I think that sometimes you should judge a company based on what they want to be. And the fact that you want to be this nomad going from country to country and doing what you do, not having staff, not raising money, a 30 40 company business is very doable, I would think. So I tend to come at this at critiquing you based on what you want to do.

Joel: I think we're going to see a lot more businesses like this in the future, sort of these solopreneurs that get a niche. I think the fact that you're just the Philippines, I'm guessing there's not a lot of competition from there. I think Facebook is a little bit risky, but yet has more people on it than Christianity. So if you can help people figure out how to advertise on Facebook, which by the way is also Instagram and anything else Facebook owns, and then drive them into a chat experience, which becomes an application. They don't have to figure out the advertising, they don't have to post jobs. You take that process out for them. I think that's a pretty cool business.

Joel: I think you probably will be acquired at some point. I think this is a really nice play for an agency to provide ads in a different way than maybe what they're doing today. I think that Facebook isn't going anywhere. I think your pricing is very competitive. You're a super young guy. My guess is this'll be something you do for five years and then you go off and do something else. But for me, are you going to be a $100 million dollar acquisition and stay in Mexico and retire? Probably not, but that's not what you're looking for. I think what you're doing is pretty cool. I think you're a pretty smart guy. I think for what you want the business to be, you're on the right track and from me you're going to get a rousing applause, man. I'm a little jealous.

Adam: Come to Mexico.

Joel: Let's see if Chad feels the same.

Chad: Well Adam, I'd like to say we love chat bots. You listen to this show and you know we love chat bots because there are so many applications. I love the lifestyle business aspect. I love that. I also love that you understand the demos. You're in the Philippines because you know the penetration rate in the Philippines, and you also know the target of the BPOs. That to me is awesome. Here's the thing, it's kind of like a turn. It's either a lifestyle business or it's not, okay, because it's hard, not impossible, but very improbable to be both. To be able to focus and understand all the different markets, much like you do the Philippines right now, I think it's essential. Not just obviously UK staffing is pretty rigid and they're not going to pick this up, but who is and where's the money?

Chad: So I think you've got a great incubator going on in the Philippines. Here's the big problem that I see. This is an easy model for companies like TMP or AIA who just bought Car, a company who does this very sort of thing and they can scale. Or Symphony, who just bought SmashFly who also has a chat bot. Or maybe even Talk Push who pretty much owns the APAC area when it comes to the chat bot slash CRM side. So I think overall, I love the idea. I love the digital nomad. The problem from my standpoint, it is too easy to replicate, which is why I'm hitting you with the guns.

Joel: Ouch.

Chad: I love it, man. I say you live it up as long as you can.

Joel: Dude, there aren't many arousing applauses and big guns. So however you feel about that, I don't know, but it's a unique situation. How do you feel?

Adam: Yeah, I feel really good. I didn't come just for positive feedback. So thank you to both of you for your input.

Joel: Fair enough. Well, again, Adam, for those who want to learn more, where do they go?

Adam: So go to, A-P-P-L-I dot chat forward slash cheese.

Joel: Thanks, man.

Chad: Excellent.

Joel: Chad.

Chad: We out.

Outro: This has been the firing squad. Be sure to subscribe to the Chad and Cheese podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you're a startup who wants to face the firing squad contact the boys at today. That's

SFX: That is one big pile of shit.

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