Robots Need Chat Too!

Is it a chatbot? 

No, it's conversational AI. Wait, that's the same thing right? What can a bot do? How should it/her/he/they engage? All legit questions and reasons why Adam Godson and Josh Zywien, Paradox hot shots, join The Chad and Cheese Podcast. 

Wait, what about that McDonald's Alexa train wreck from last year?

Oh yes, we cover that too :) 

Knowledge powered by the AI Gods at


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INTRO (1m 4s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad (1m 6s):

Oh yeah.

Joel (1m 7s):

It's the Monday morning quarterback edition of the Chad and Cheese podcast everybody. What's going on I'm your cohost. Joel Cheeseman joined as always by my Batman, Chad Sowash.

Chad (-):


Joel (1m 18s):

Chad, What's going on, man? It's Monday after the first week of football. How you doing?

Chad (1m 20s):

Oh my God. I've had a whole pot of fucking coffee, watching football. And yesterday I heard that the Buckeyes are going to be on the field in mid October. It's like fucking Christmas and not in, in what is it, September?

Joel (1m 36s):

I know. Right? My Browns ripped it up. So I'm pretty happy about that. Anyway, we are joined by an all star cast of guest today. The Paradox boys are here.

Chad (1m 46s):

This is the supersize podcast of marketing.

Joel (1m 50s):

Josh Zywien, I think I said that right. And head of product, Adam Godson. Boys what's going on?

Adam Godson (1m 54s):

Happy to be here.

Josh Zywien (1m 54s):

What's going on guys? Very generous intro.

Joel (1m 59s):

Your teams must have lost yesterday.

Adam Godson (1m 59s):

It's just Monday.

Chad (1m 59s):

So real quick, JZ, because I know your wife is a Michigan fan that's a big boo. Who's your NCAA. Who's your team?

Josh Zywien (2m 13s):

My team? I mean, I should say the Miami Redhawks because...

Chad (2m 16s):

It's not a real team. Go ahead.

Josh Zywien (2m 19s):

What's the point? So I root for Notre Dame because my brother went there for his master's and just grew up kind of watching him. So it's been my team.

Joel (2m 29s):

They struggled a little bit in the first half against Duke.

Josh Zywien (2m 33s):

That was real sloppy.

Chad (2m 33s):

And we know Godson is one of those Iowa fucking hot guy dudes.

Adam Godson (2m 47s):

Three yards and a cloud of dust baby. Here we go.

Chad (2m 46s):

Who's your Pro team Adam?

Adam Godson (2m 46s):

Green Bay Packers, I live in Wisconsin. It's just basically a religion.

Joel (2m 50s):

You should be really happy after that performance.

Adam Godson (2m 54s):

Yeah they played great!

Chad (2m 54s):

Dude. We kicked ass and took names. So JZ real quick, give us a Twitter intro about you, background, all that other fun stuff.

Josh Zywien (3m 1s):

Yeah. So I'm the, the head of marketing here at Paradox previously was the head of marketing at a company called SmashFly that was acquired by Symphony Talent. Back in November, before that, I worked for a venture capital firm in marketing and owned my own marketing agency for a little while and way, way back, I was a sports journalist, that's how I got started in this whole kind of weird writing marketing world.

Joel (3m 21s):

Covering Ben Roethlisberger but we'll save that for another day.

Chad (3m 27s):

Trying not to get beat up by Ben Roethlisberger.

Joel (3m 30s):

Adam, tell the folks who you are.

Chad (3m 33s):

Thanks, Joel. I'm head a product at Paradox has joined JZ about six months ago. Before that I'm an HR tech industry guy so I spent nine years at a CTO of CLO of the RPO field. So I got a chance to see all the technology that the industry has to offer and then decided to go join one. So it's been a cool journey.

Joel (3m 54s):

And both of you are in the archives. So for listeners who want to know more, go, go check it out. We interviewed both these guys individually.

Chad (4m 1s):

So words of warning for anyone listening, by the way, Adam talks extremely fast. So if you listen to podcasts at one and a half time, speed, you're going to want to back. You're going to want to back that shit back up. So, okay. So the first question right out of the gate, this one's for Joel and for the listeners who haven't quite yet come to understand the difference between a chat bot in conversational AI. I know the paper that Madelyn did goes into this a fairly deep, can you guys give us a quick overview?

Chad (4m 33s):

What's the difference between a chat bot and conversational AI? Or are they just the same shit?

Adam Godson (4m 36s):

The difference is the underlying technology. So a chat bot plays a lot of tennis. So being able to say like, if this, if I get this response, then do that. And you can try to draw a diagram of things that are really pretty straight forward, but doesn't have any natural language processing or actually understand what the person is, having a conversation with them, saying. You see a lot of this manifested when you see a bot, that's got like three buttons in it. You can't type an answer. It just says, what would you like to do?

Adam Godson (5m 9s):

A yes, no or maybe, and you push one of those buttons and it really doesn't even have to be part of a check. You are not chatting. It's just a different way to do an interface. When you talk about conversational AI, there's a layer of understanding. So natural language processing, where instead of writing, yes, you say sure. Or aha, or yuppers or whatever the hell you want to say, people say some weird stuff. I can tell you that, but then understands that that's a response that is an analog to yes. So being able to actually understand is the difference between just a dumb chat bot and actual conversational AI.

Chad (5m 42s):

So that that's kind of like evolved because that's what everybody was saying. A chat bot was at first because Joel's, he's really hitting on kind of like the hierarchical, you know, is it, is it really just RPA vs AI that understands what you're saying, right and LP? That's what everybody was saying at first. This is what we have, but now we're kind of, we're trying to split those two worlds. Is that because there are a bunch of those, kind of like bullshit, choose your own adventure, kind of chat bots that are out there versus people who are really doing the heavy lifting and conversational AI.

Chad (6m 19s):

Is there a lot of vaporware ?

Adam Godson (6m 20s):

I think honestly, what we did, I think you're right, Chad is it started with people trying to do conversational AI and process language. A lot of people figured out that was really hard so then they said, you know what, let's go back and put buttons in here to direct the user and make this more straightforward. So instead of typing something, let's just put buttons that they can push. And it really created a divide because it is hard. And so companies that couldn't invest in natural language processing and really doing it well and having a taxonomy of words and all the stuff that's really hard, just went to simple interface and said, just put a button in there and we'll make the button go.

Adam Godson (6m 59s):

So you really do see a divide now, whereas, you know, three years ago, it was probably a little bit more straight forward where people trying to figure out what path to take.

Josh Zywien (7m 12s):

I think too, like, just to add on that, Adam, I think sometimes people from outside of this industry come into this industry and think they can solve the problem in a very simple way and fail to recognize that there's a ton of nuance and gray area in recruiting and talent acquisition. So like that ability to understand the intent of what somebody actually wants to do is so important to actually creating real value I think with this technology in this industry.

Chad (7m 38s):

Plus marketing got involved and they were naming it whatever the fuck they wanted to name it right?