Workforce Revolution: Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere!
We're usually pretty skeptical about company sponsored surveys. Not surprisingly, the data usually turns out to be a self-serving pile of hot garbage, or a half-assed attempt at getting some love from the media.
And then there's Talent Alpha's new global talent report, "The A3 Work Revolution: Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere." We dug it so much, we had to have Talent Alpha CEO (and Firing Squad alum) Prez Berendt on the podcast to highlight some of the survey's finer points and nuances. After that, we dig into a recent acquisition out of the Nordics, claiming to be the most important thing to happen in Scandinavia since the Viking Age. Skol, um, maybe. Then what Chad & Cheese show is complete without something about strippers, porn stars or gun-toting robots, so we have one of those stories too... this time, out of the UK.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Disability Solutions provides comprehensive website accessibility testing with personalized recommendations to enhance usability for people with a variety of disabilities or situational limitations.
Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Europe Intro (6s):
Some podcasts, do it for the fun. Some do it for the fame, Chad and Cheese they do it for global effin domination. That's why bringing America to its knees was just the beginning. Now they have their eyes set on conquering Europe and they've drafted industry veteran Lieven Van Nieuwenhuyze of Belgium to help them navigate the old country and bring HR's most dangerous podcast across the pond to trash-talk like never before. Not safe for work in any language. The Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe.
Oh yeah. American Airlines canceled close to 2000 flights over the weekend. Thanks mostly to labor shortages. Welcome to the Metaverse motherfuckers. You are listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Europe. I'm your cohost Joel "live from Glasgow" Cheeseman
And this is Chad "straight out of Krackow" Sowash.
I'm, once again, just Lieven.
Joel (1m 1s):
And on this episode, Assessio says, if you ain't Dutch, you ain't much. The UK is war on strip clubs and it's a work revolution up in here. Y'all and there ain't no revolution like a European revolution. Let's do this.
sfx (1m 16s):
Europe has a bunch of countries in it.
Joel (1m 20s):
Chad (1m 21s):
Mystery guest. Okay. Kids here we go. Get ready straight out of Krackow. That was my hint, a Harvard business school, executive grad in business marketing strategy and leadership development. He spent four years at Proctor and Gamble in user experience, seven years as a managing director and VP at Luxoff. And most importantly, he is a firing squad alum. Today he is the CEO and founder of Talent Alpha. Give it up for Przemek Berendt aka Prez. Welcome back to the show Prez, what's up?
Przemek (1m 56s):
Good to be back
Joel (1m 58s):
Prez is here for sloppy seconds. He came back. Very nice. Very nice.
Chad (2m 3s):
This is, this is going to be a little less stressful possibly. I don't know, Lieven's on the show. It might be more stressful than the firing squad episode. Tell us what you've been up to man.
Przemek (2m 14s):
Well, I've been building Talent Alpha since the last time we met in back in, I think it was 2018 still when we were just starting out, right now, the business is booming and the pandemic has been really the accelerator to this. Enjoying all of the turmoil on the local markets and the 38 countries where we already operate and looking forward to the show. Thanks for having me.
Joel (2m 36s):
Look at you. And they've grown up so much since 2018. Is that when we talked to you? Oh, they've.
Chad (2m 41s):
Joel (2m 41s):
They get me teary-eyed so much. Yeah, so much growing up to do.
Chad (2m 45s):
So little, I remember how small they were back then.
Joel (2m 47s):
Such a little tyke when we talked to them and look at them now. So sexy. I've got to shout out everybody.
Chad (2m 55s):
OK, hit it.
Joel (2m 56s):
Freelancing is my shout out. Maybe this is what happens when everyone has a government funded healthcare in Europe, time to quit that crappy job and gig for living. So last week, LinkedIn announced that after signing up some 2 million Americans to its new gig platform, that it would roll out to the rest of the world. Well, hello there European Union and the UK where some 170 million folks are on LinkedIn's platform. LinkedIn posted revenues of 3.1 billion during the last quarter. A year on year jump of 42%. Also we talked about France based freelance.com recently, which is a public company and they're crushing it.
Joel (3m 36s):
Last month the company reported revenue growth of 60% in the first half of the financial year bringing the France based gig sites, total revenue to 212 million euros. Want some more gig news everybody? Upwork announced last month, a 32% year on year revenue increase for the third quarter, taking its total earnings to $128 million. So shout out to freelance nation, coming to a recruitment strategy near you.
Chad (4m 6s):
Kind of gives you some insight on why LinkedIn started that platform, right? A big shout out to Cornerstone on Demand. So during our last European show, we said that we would be looking for some big moves from Cornerstone on Demand after moving from public back to private. Meaning acquisitions, for the most part. We expected their big moves to be acquisitions. Well, I received some internal pictures and their big move seems to be, wait for kids, changing their logo and color scheme a-la CareerBuilder.
Chad (4m 46s):
Real quick, real quick I've got a quick message for Cornerstone. Come close Cornerstone. Listen. Hey buddy, you don't need a new coat of paint. You need new texts. So I'll stop applying lipstick to that same old fucking pig and start building for the future. Okay. Don't follow CareerBuilder.
Joel (5m 6s):
You just got Chad-ed.
sfx (5m 8s):
Oh, Hell no.
Chad (5m 8s):
Lieven, talk to me about your favorite man.
Lieven (5m 12s):
Elon Musk. Elon my hero, had just announced that if the United Nations started a food program from the United Nations can convince him that his $6 billion can change the world. He will donate it. And I know you don't believe it. And I know you think he was going to try to get out of it, but if Elon can be trust, I believe it is going to do it.
Chad (5m 32s):
This is in response to the what was it? The UN's food program or something like that. They actually said if they had 2% of Elon Musk's worth or some shit like that, that they could actually, you know, feed the world. And he came back and said, if you prove it to me, I'll give it to you. Is that where we're going with this?
Lieven (5m 55s):
Exactly. And I think they won't be able to prove it, but he'll do anyway.
Joel (5m 59s):
You know, Hertz, Hertz just bought a hundred thousand Teslas and like 50,000 of them will be Uber drivers. Most Europeans would probably want more Teslas than they would the 6 billion to save the planet. But maybe that's just me
Lieven (6m 13s):
Am my I right, to become president of the United States you need to be born in the United States? Okay. So Elon will never become your president. He was born in South Africa, I believe.
Joel (6m 25s):
Chad (6m 25s):
He can be the president of the world.
Lieven (6m 28s):
Yeah. Even better.
Joel (6m 29s):
He's a real American success story, baby.
Chad (6m 32s):
Prez, what do you think about Ilon over there in Poland in Krakow?
Przemek (6m 36s):
I've definitely, he's been the one that has many eyeballs on him and people are watching, you know, he's whereabouts. I saw that tweet where he committed that 6 billion. And I thought, oh, if anyone can do that, he might be the one to pull this off, but he would call the United Nations kind of accountable for the money he gives. You know, I also followed the US, kind of topics when they say tax the rich. And I think there is some truth to that as well. Right. So let's see what these guys are up to in the 2022.
Joel (7m 6s):
The kicker is it's going to all be in Dogecoin there.
Lieven (7m 11s):
No, but if he says it's going to be in Dogecoin.
Joel (7m 13s):
May or may not be worth that.
Lieven (7m 14s):
I don't know, it might rise if he says so.
Chad (7m 17s):
Yeah. Or he'll go on Saturday Night Live, and then it'll rise. And then it will tank. Prez you got some shout outs?
Przemek (7m 26s):
Absolutely. So as the ambassador of the Central and Eastern European region, I wanted first to shout out to the Central and Eastern European talent, specifically to all of the female and male software engineers who have been making our market's so hot for so many decades. The market has been absolutely crazy over the 2021 and the Shout Out goes through them. My number two goes to actually falling on the Ted Lasso shout outs in the previous show, I wanted to shout out to the fans of that The Great and the season two premieres in three weeks. Haazaa to everyone who is really watching that show. I'm a big fan, and can't wait for this to come.
Joel (8m 5s):
How many Halloween costumes did I have to endure of Ted Lasso?
Przemek (8m 10s):
And my number three is actually an anti-shout out if you guys accept these? I want to
Chad (8m 15s):
We call them rants though. We call them rants.
Przemek (8m 18s):
Rants, all right, let's run some rants of the central banks and governments for letting the inflation out of control. You guys have fucked it up in a beautiful way. Romania 6.29%, Estonia, 6.6, Poland, 6.8, right? Russia, 7.4, Ukraine, 11%. You know, if our markets were attractive because of the cost arbitrage, I think these days are gone. Thank you.
Chad (8m 45s):
Joel (8m 45s):
I'll ask a dumb American question. Are they in the G20?
Przemek (8m 48s):
No, they're not.
Joel (8m 50s):
Okay. Because the G20 is all, all agreeing on, like a minimum tax rate for companies, right? Is that good for Poland? Cause they're outside of that realm, are they going to pull in a lot of tech companies now?
Przemek (9m 2s):
There is a fair presence of tech companies over here, and it's been growing over the years, right? Lately the foreign investments have been stagnating slightly that's because of our internal politics and also some of the battles between the Polish government and in Brussels, meaning the EU.
Joel (9m 19s):
So you welcome a minimum tax on companies in those countries.
Przemek (9m 22s):
Of course we do. Right. Because a lot of that is being transferred out. Right. You know, to Ireland and then to other kind of tax havens, so.
Joel (9m 32s):
Yep. Now it's coming to Poland, baby. Time to party.
Chad (9m 36s):
This is a great transition into the future of work report. You got something there Cheeseman?
Joel (9m 41s):
Yeah. Yeah. Let's mention first though, that Chad, you and I are going to Brussels this month to celebrate American Thanksgiving.
Chad (9m 50s):
Yes. That's right!
Joel (9m 51s):
Yeah. If you, if you want to come join us, the URL is escaping me.
Lieven (10m 1s):
Erecruitments-congress.com. And then how do you call it? dash-congress.com. That's the one.
Joel (10m 4s):
Chad and I'll be there. A couple of our friends of the show will be there. It'll be a good time. We'll get some good content. So make sure that you look out for that.
Chad (10m 12s):
Prez is going to be there.
Przemek (10m 15s):
I am coming. Yes.
Lieven (10m 18s):
Are you coming? Yeah, indeed. I saw someone from Poland actually registered. So that's you?
Przemek (10m 25s):
That was me, yes.
Lieven (10m 25s):
Joel (10m 26s):
He's so sharp, someone from Poland is coming. Holy Shit!
Lieven (10m 29s):
You do realize that most of the speaking of being dutch.
Przemek (10m 31s):
Chad and Cheese will be there and we are going to have our Duvell competition.
Joel (10m 39s):
A little competition. Say more about that. Can I win some Duvel?
Lieven (10m 43s):
Drink as much as you want.
Joel (10m 45s):
Okay. Then I'm in on that competition. Yeah. Sorry. Let's get to some actual.
Chad (10m 55s):
Joel (10m 56s):
Chad (10m 57s):
Joel (10m 57s):
All right. This is a report done by our friends at Talent Alpha who Prez represents, so called the A3 work revolution. The A3 means anytime, any place, anywhere. The annual future of work report produced by the company is now available for download at Talent-Haifa, excuse me, talent-alpha.com. It analyzes the challenges and opportunities arising from changes in the way work is performed, from flexible working hours through new forms of employment, to the ability to match talent and demand from all over the globe. Prez this is your baby. Take it away. What does this report reveal?
Przemek (11m 38s):
Well, first of all, it reveals that we are experiencing a super acceleration of trends, right? Clearly 2021 has shifted so many things around us, forcing many companies, both small and big to really change the way they think about, about talent and talent acquisition. So every year when we write the future of work report, we invite industry experts, analysts as well, the executives from the different parts of the market to help us kind of look at the market holistically. And this year we are looking at a couple of topics, starting with the A3 revolution itself, where we break it down into what it really means and how companies can get ready for that.
Przemek (12m 19s):
Then diving into the talent shortage and really saying that, you know what we have been experiencing over the past, say nine months is here to stay, right? And it's not going to go anywhere anytime soon, especially when it comes to tech talent. And then we talk and dive into some of the remedies for the challenges that the businesses face. First, we talk about open talent, how the different talent platforms can help it, the gig work, the freelance work that you just mentioned, all of the announcements in the shout-outs. And last we talk on how companies should adjust to all of these changes and how they should think differently about their strategy, basically telling them you don't need to adapt or die because they old world is not coming back.
Chad (13m 1s):
It's not coming back. Are we sure of that? We know that employees right now, it's an employee market. So the market powers on the employee side, do we really feel like this is permanence or will it shift dramatically when the power is back on the employer side of the house?
Przemek (13m 18s):
I don't think it will come back to the old normal as we knew it prior pandemic. I agree with you that we might be kind of on the extreme side of the pendulum and the pendulum would definitely swing back at some point in time when the market and the economy shifts. But I think some of the new habits that talent around the globe kind of now imprinted into themselves, they are there to stay and some of their expectations and requirements as well, such as, you know, some of the data that we quote in the report that: 75% of employees want to maintain flexible hours after the pandemic. Right? So even if the market shifts, right, and to know me as a talent on the labor market, I have two offers.
Przemek (14m 0s):
One that offers me to basically work from home anytime I want and the one that requires me to go back to the office, which one would I choose? Right? So I think some of these things are here to stay regardless of the market condition.
Joel (14m 12s):
Prez, one of the things that we talk about regularly on our show is the great resignation. I commented this past week about just how much of a complicated issue the great resignation is. Some people say it's just a money question, right? Just pay people more money and problem solved. But it seems like there are other issues, deeper issues with people, whether they hate going to work, they hate working in general. They want more flexibility to work from home. A phenomenon obviously is impacted folks. What are you seeing or what did you see in terms of the great resignation and takeaways from the report? And what's sort of your viewpoint on what's going on with everyone leaving jobs.
Joel (14m 54s):
I mean, the percentages of people that say they're leaving is almost comical. What's your take?
Przemek (14m 59s):
Well, I think the great resignation is a fact, right? And I think what is not being discussed enough is what is new kind of in this cycle? And what's really has what has changed throughout the pandemic is that a number of barriers that we used to have back in the days are no longer there? Right prior to the pandemic companies used to recruit in the 30 mile or a 30 kilometer radius from the HQ, right now, what we do see is companies are recruiting basically all over the place anywhere, right? And that's where the big part of the report is. It's not uncommon for companies from Silicon Valley or Los Angeles, right, posting jobs on Krakow local job sites offering US salaries just to work for them remotely.
Przemek (15m 43s):
Right? And this is something that, you know, two years ago was not something you would think about. I think there are many other forces at play. The inflation that we've mentioned also is kind of driving talent to consider, you know, how they can increase their income. I think the tech talent gap. And again, I do believe that it's here to stay, especially when it comes to IT and software development talent, is also shifting the market really what we are experiencing is the market where we have over demand. And it's, you know, some of the stats and the analysis we've done is that it's 17 times greater by 2025 than what it used to be prior to the pandemic.
Przemek (16m 24s):
Whereas the supply remains fairly kind of stagnant. It grows, you know, anywhere between 3 to 4% year over year and in a market where you have sort of so much demand and so little supply the market, tries to find equilibrium by increasing the price. Right? So it's not uncommon in the markets where we operate to see the talent, the software engineers coming and asking for pay raises not every 12 months as they used to, but every three months, right? Because at any given point in time, they have, you know, five other offers on the table.
Joel (16m 53s):
Prez following up on the comment about Los Angeles and San Francisco companies, you know, posting jobs and hiring workers in Krakow, Romania, et cetera. What are you seeing in regards to the relationship there? Is it a contract relationship? Are they hiring full-time employees? And then based on what they're doing primarily, how are they managing those workers? Are they doing it through a company like Upwork, or are they using a remote.com or some of the new remote work solutions?
Przemek (17m 24s):
So the contracts vary, right? Some of them would be hiring directly as contractors on the B2B contract. The others do it through agencies, right? So hiring actually a company, we call them software houses when the plenty of that talent would be available for hire. And companies tends to actually not only tap into individuals, but entire teams. There are leveraging platforms such as Talent Alpha, where we are actually bringing the two sides of that ecosystem together in a B2B to be a enterprise gateway model or posting the available skill set on a website, such as Upwork and Top Tall.
Przemek (18m 6s):
So the ways in which the talent is connected with opportunity are plenty. And the market is really trying to figure out which ones are the best, whether you go direct to these clients or whether you hire directly on the local market. And I think that battle is still in the air when it comes to how they collaborate. I think, you know, for many of these organizations, because they've been serving international clients for so many years, when it comes to the toolkit, they are just going with, you know, what they have been going with in the past, right? So it's teams or Hangouts to communicate. It's a different types of systems to manage the workflow. Time started still, you know, it's still is a challenge, but you know, some of the consultants who are actually engaging in those types of relationships, they even tend to shift their working hours so they can have more face time with their customers.
Chad (18m 58s):
Well, I've got a quick question for Lieven now, the report, here's a quote from a head of talent acquisition team in Poland, quote, "as specialists can work from anywhere now, for example, from Poland directly for companies in Germany or the US the salary expectations are growing, we need to urgently revise our compensation ranges to attract good candidates" end, quote. Lieven with being a part of a large organization like House of HR this is interesting to me because we're talking about wage equilibrium throughout the globe. What are you guys seeing? And is this a conversation you're actually having at the top in leadership meetings?
Lieven (19m 42s):
It's a really interesting question, now, we actually were talking about it recently. There is a concept social dumping, and normally it was like this, if we, for example, if you hire truck drivers from Romania or Poland, that's the local wages and we let them drive for a Belgium company. Normally we are obliged to give them the Belgium wages because they work for a Belgium company. So what happened to us? Some shady companies were launching a truck driving company in Romania, and they hired people and then they let them drive in Belgium. And that's what we call social dumping. Some companies where I'm abusing the system.
Lieven (20m 21s):
And of course, it's a terrible wrongdoing to those people because they are driving around in Belgium. They have to, for example, if they have to stay in Belgium, you have to pay the local rents, but they are paid and in a wage which matches the Romanian or Poland system. So it's not legal, but it happens. And I'm thinking this platform economy could launch a new kind of social dumping and much more difficult to track. So it could become a big problem.
Chad (20m 53s):
Don't you think it will actually start to drive equilibrium because the expectation for somebody let's say, instead of drivers, let's say, it's somebody who's an engineer? Right, maybe a software developer? They could start to expect bigger wages because of what they're actually seeing from the shores, maybe of the US, or maybe other areas of the world, where they're actually seeing their wages rise, that they can get working remote. Do you see that perspectively happening on the remote work from home types of jobs?
Lieven (21m 27s):
And the best scenario? Yes. And in the worst scenario, things will turn around, like for example, a graphic designer working in Belgium, a Belgium guy, he's no, he's got to compete two graphic designers in Pakistan and all over the world. And on Fiverr, for example, there are still so much more people offering services than there are companies hiring people. So it puts pressure on the daily rates.
Joel (21m 54s):
It's that race to the bottom.
Lieven (21m 54s):
Yeah. And I think there'll always be someone more desperate and willing to do it for less money. And that's a real problem.
Joel (22m 1s):
I've got one for Lieven as well, Lieven, we talked about Facebook a while back and how they pledged to hire 10,000 people in Europe, which are going to be a lot of obviously technology folks.
Chad (22m 15s):
Joel (22m 15s):
And your comment was, oh, great, now I have to deal with Facebook, you know, competing with Facebook recruiting engineers. And when you hear stories about, or Prez talking about, you know, Silicon valley coming after Eastern European tech talent and other European tech talent, what is sort of your take on that? Cause as an American, I think like, oh yeah, you know, it's the marketplace and it's, you know, a new open market. Do you look at it and go, oh shit, we got to deal with Americans now coming and giving American wages to our workers. Now how are we going to compete with that? What sort of your perspective when you hear Silicon Valley is posting jobs in Romania?
Lieven (22m 53s):
Well, I don't think they're going to pay the Silicon Valley wages. I heard, even in the United States, they're not paying the same wages if you're not living in Silicon Valley. If we're living somewhere in the suburbs, they're bound to pay you less, but I don't really care about the Americans hiring people. And I know that I'm a bit anxious about companies like Facebook actually trying to hire 10,000 engineers. We don't have enough engineers. That's a problem.
Joel (23m 18s):
Yeah. So wages have to go up. They may not be Silicon Valley wages, but the wages are going to go up, right?
Lieven (23m 24s):
No, I don't know. Maybe, they will say it's going to be a good motivation for people to study engineering,
Chad (23m 31s):
That would be a great motivation for companies to actually start manufacturing their own engineers, as opposed to waiting for them, just to pop out of nowhere.
Joel (23m 43s):
Lieven (23m 44s):
And it does the future of work that's re-skilling. And so constantly re-skilling and retargeting people.
Przemek (23m 48s):
Yeah. When I saw that, I was wondering how they plan to pull this off 10,000 engineers on any market, you know, especially if they landed in Ireland, I wish them good luck. Right. So I don't see, seriously, like in the current market and their brand and all of the kind of social issues that have been discussed across Europe, I would say to a large extent, I think this is close to the mission impossible. So might be just smoke and mirrors too, you know, to be nice to the European Union.
Chad (24m 19s):
Joel (24m 20s):