"98% of sourcing should be automated" - Johnny Campbell


Get your temporal lobe ready for the fast talkin', recruitment teachin', ninja wearin' Johnny Campbell from Social Talent. WARNING: You might have to slow this pod back to 1/2 speed to capture all of Johnny's nuggets.

Brought to your by our MENSA laden friends over at Jobcase.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

Disability Solutions' clients are changing the lives of people with disabilities, including veterans with service related disabilities.

Joel: Yo, Chad, got a question for you.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: Say I'm looking to hire hourly workers for hard to fill jobs. Where should I go?

Chad: Easy. Jobcase.

Joel: Okay. All right. Now let's say I've tried the job boards, and all I'm getting is clicks, and what I really want are qualify candidates, actual people. Where should I go?

Chad: Dude, Jobcase.

Joel: Now what if I want the team who is helping me with all this sourcing to be really, really, really smart, and before you answer, keep in mind I'm talking Mensa smart, like MIT affiliated data scientists and people who are at the forefront of machine learning. Who you got?

Chad: Oh my God, dude, it's Jobcase. Jobcase. Look, with 100 million members in their community, active and passive job seekers, a huge team of data scientists who are experts at targeting and connecting employers with the right candidates, the answer is always going to be Jobcase.

Joel: I dig it. I'm picking up what you're putting down, but what if-

Chad: Hard stop. Jobcase. See for yourself why the answer always comes back to Jobcase for all your hiring needs. Learn more at jobcase.com/hire. That's jobcase.com/hire.

Joel: Jobcase.

Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, clash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel: Let's start with this, you're speaking at this event called SHRM talent, correct?

Chad: Let's do an introduction of him first. Who is he? What does he do? Why is he even here?

Joel: Fine, we'll look into that. So yeah, welcome to a SHRM talent edition, Jobcase sponsored interview with Johnny Campbell. I'm Joel Cheeseman.

Chad: Johnny Campbell. And I'm Chad Sowash.

Joel: And we are the Chad and Cheese podcast. Johnny, welcome to the show, give us the elevator pitch on you for those who don't know who the hell you are.

Johnny: So that might be many, right. All I'll say is 10 years ago, the first ever blog I read in recruiting was Joel Cheeseman's blog.

Joel: No shit.

Johnny: So I'm here being interviewed by one of my legends. My legends. I am in awe. I want to hear your story. I'll give you mine, but I need to hear the Joel Cheeseman story.

Joel: I wondered why you walked up and said, I'm not worthy, with the, the Wayne's World-

Johnny: Pretty much, dude.

Joel: ... bowing.

Johnny: I had the long hair, the baseball cap.

Joel: Did you?

Johnny: No, so yeah. So actually I run a company called SocialTalent. And I started, I guess I was telling somebody earlier on, I started coming to SHRM events as a blogger. Which we all were, as in we had like 10 Facebook friends and we 20 followers on Twitter, which was like 20 times more than SHRM had and every other organization. So they thought they had to do something in this space, and none of us could afford tickets to these events, so we're like, yeah, we'll tweet, we'll write some posts.

Joel: We'll blog.

Johnny: Just let us in for free. Give us free food and coffee and drinks in your lounge. We'll go to some vendor's free party. And Woo. So, that was 10 years ago and that's how I started. But yeah, the short version, recruiter, 20 odd years ago, I started an agency 10 years ago, set up an agency, the world was changing, recession, world of social media was booming. We found a new way of doing it, realized there's more money to be made and more people need help in learning how to do what we were doing then they need to another agency doing that.

Johnny: So we shut down our recruiting agency or staffing agency, set up SocialTalent to teach other recruiters how to use what was then new technology, new tools. And now we're a platform used by enterprises and mid-tier companies to train their staff to be smarter at hiring.

Chad: Now are you the ones that actually came up with the whole ninja thing that we see on Linkedin all the damn time?

Johnny: Let me take you back to Japan in the year 204.

Chad: Were you there? Did you start it?

Johnny: So no, that wasn't those.

Chad: Okay.

Johnny: We are the people who took it though.

Chad: Okay.

Johnny: So I remember I was... When we were looking to first set the company up and we needed a name for our course, I booked a gig training a staffing agency for a day, and they were giving me a thousand books. That was our first gig of training and we had no name for the course, like no name. I was like, fuck, we need a name.

Joel: [crosstalk 00:04:42] training.

Johnny: Can I say fuck in this podcast?

Chad: Yeah.

Johnny: Okay. Darn it, we need a name. And I just really, one afternoon, we were like, we need a name that scales, so it has like we can choose other courses and they have things. And we're like, well you don't want to call it, the certificate in something, because AIRS had CIO and all that kind of stuff and it felt boring. And then we're like, well it's kind of corporate-ey but more fun and we looked at the whole kind of Six Sigma type stuff and black belts and stuff and we said, that would be us. But let's call this the blue belt. And we start with the blue belt. And then about two years later I was putting this stuff up, we do blue belts and black belts and someone tweeted out from my conference in the UK one day, I feel like I sourcing ninja having seen these guys talk about the black belts. And I'm like sourcing Ninja. That's it. That's gold.

Johnny: And literally the next day we had ninjas on our website and all over collateral.

Joel: It's essentially like Udemy for recruiting. So your platform is a who's who of recruiters, Bill Bowerman, Craig Fisher, et cetera, and they teach how they source,

and companies pay to have access to this education?

Johnny: So yes, but different to Udemy or LinkedIn learning, it's curated. So you take most of those platforms, where they've very broad base of knowledge. We hand pick people, the best person on a topic, like we got candidate experience, who do you have for candidate experience? We got Gerry Crispin, right?

Johnny: You pick a topic and go, let's just have one person. Nobody wants to have to pick from 600 different courses on interviewing. Just tell me the good course on interviewing and give me that. So we got John Valestilica and he does the good course in interviewing, the really good course in interviewing. So about 50 people are on the platform, but more than that, it's kind of, we realized that the having a load of videos was confusing. Enterprises want to try and solve for very different problems, different teams, different levels of experience, different markets, recruiting different things. So really what it's used for today is companies customize the heck out of it. They build learning paths for their teams and those teams look different around the world, but it's scalable. There's loads of reporting, all those kind of, what you might call the boring enterprise features.

Johnny: They're all in there to make it work for large companies on scales. So it's like personalized Netflix for all of your teams. So everyone feels like, hey, somebody built this just for me. That's kind of what we try and do.

Joel: What's the revenue model for the presenter? So you mentioned Gerry Crispin, do you pay them a flat fee? Does he do it out of the kindness of his heart? Like how does that work?

Johnny: So there's three models. One is the kindness of your heart model genuinely, which is people out there going, I want to spread the message about this thing. Like our customers hired a million people last year, right? The direct use of our platform directly hired a million people, excluding staffing agencies. And so there's people who have ideas in their brain, they're really good at it and they just want to spread the word.

Johnny: You've got like people like Lars Schmidt, who want to spread the word about opensource HR. And so therefore, as a friend of ours, we can give him a platform and he can give great content to people. Gerry Crispin, again, wants to spread the word about candidate experience. But then you've got professionals who want a business and have bills to pay. We all have bills to pay, but they do it for a living and they're brilliant. And we've royalty models with those guys. So it's like Spotify, in that you can get paid as your content's used by our customers. But also we do on-stop people go, that's great, but I just need cash right now, I prefer cash right now. And we do that model as well.