BOLD pulls Monster's Plug

On this week's show:

• BOLD.com’s “thoughtful transition” = RIP Monster Europe. Sites offline, employers ghosted, and Jamie & Doug hiding behind an email like two guys who definitely peaked in middle management.

• Job.com update: Turns out the only thing “automated” was screwing over employees.

• Anthropic just 3X’d their valuation to $170B by cozying up to Gulf dictatorships.

• ServiceNow CEO gives a TED Talk from hell about replacing humans with bots.

• Astronomer CEO + HR Head caught on Kiss Cam, and the PR team summoned Gwyneth Paltrow for a Goop-soaked distraction campaign. Shockingly? It worked.

🚨 This is your wake-up call. AI’s not just coming for your job—it’s taking your lunch break, your health insurance, and your dignity.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Chad (00:33.792)

wake up kids, it's the Chad and Cheese podcast. Cheeseless this week, by the way. I'm Chad, thoughtful transition, Sowash.

J.T. O'Donnell (00:43.738)

I'm JT and a Diet Coke for the haters of O'Donnell.

Emi B (00:47.63)

And I'm Emi, why am I still struggling to find a middle name, Beredugo?

Chad (00:51.914)

That's a good question. That's a very good question. my God. So on this week's show, Bold pulls the plug. Job.com pulls a fast one. Anthropic pulls a ridiculous valuation. And ServiceNow pulls an Uncle Baby Billy. Let's do this.

Emi B (00:54.464)

I don't know, I really don't know why.

Chad (01:13.934)

All right, so we're back from Wreckfest. This is the first time we're having a discussion. You guys have been all over the place. JT, you just got back last week. Emmy, first to you, because you've attended before. But now you got to MC. How was that experience at Wreckfest? Much different, assuming.

Emi B (01:19.246)

Whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop!

Emi B (01:30.102)

I have attended before a couple of times.

Emi B (01:36.398)

Okay. It was different. To be honest, I felt like a pop star, you know? I was like, yeah, here's me with my microphone, just warming up the crowd. Honestly, I absolutely loved it. So like we said, I've been there a few times. First couple of years, I was just an attendee. Last year, I did a talk. This year, it was brilliant. Just being on stage, seeing the crowd, listening to the people on stage. I mean, I always love breakfast, but...

Chad (01:40.878)

Hahahaha

Chad (01:54.68)

Yeah.

Emi B (02:04.044)

because of the hosting gig, made it just a little bit more special. Yeah.

Chad (02:07.448)

No, I'm sure it did. Not too much and you had fans coming up.

Emi B (02:11.114)

Yeah!

J.T. O'Donnell (02:11.905)

girl I crowd read some shade. I did. I like bombed it and in behind it was like did you get photographs? I was so excited. was terrible. She's full bead of makeup on and what am I doing? I'm rushing at her.

Chad (02:23.18)

Yeah, that's-

Emi B (02:26.039)

Yeah

Chad (02:27.49)

Well, JT, this is your first. I mean, again, you have not experienced Wreckfest before. So tell us a little of your virgin experience. How was

Emi B (02:29.166)

Yeah

J.T. O'Donnell (02:35.705)

Yeah, I think I must have said to you all 10 times, now I get it. I get it. I get it. I did. I think I said that 10 times. For all of you that haven't been, you have to go. And now that we have a US one coming up, like you have to go. I don't care. Go to your boss, beg for the money, go to the take, because it's so much in one day and the way it's set up, you're going to learn a ton, a ton of things. Shout out to Dave Hazelhurst. I didn't realize he started a whole new company.

Emi B (02:40.045)

Yeah.

Chad (02:43.138)

What do you get?

Chad (02:47.384)

Mm-hmm. You're

J.T. O'Donnell (03:01.371)

who literally was on any stage talking about recruiting with TikTok, which is something I, you my company has were obsessed with. There was just so much good cutting edge stuff going on that it was really worth it. And it's just party vibe. Like that's what you want. You know, you want that party vibe and the swag. I mean, like the little, the highlight for me was the fans. You know, I dragged my husband running around with his, you know, it was, it's just incredible. It's so worth it. You're going to get a lot out of it in your career as a recruiter, especially with everything that's going on right now.

Chad (03:07.352)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (03:21.36)

that was brilliant.

J.T. O'Donnell (03:31.055)

You know, it's just so crazy. But the vibe, the best vibe I've ever seen at a conference.

Chad (03:37.452)

It is a really cool vibe. And Nashville, is coming up soon, we'll talk more about events next week, but it's coming up soon. It's the third year that we've had it in the U.S. and in the UK, it's 10 plus, right? So in the UK, it's been more mature, you know, one of those things. The beautiful part about the U.S. is if you like, like ground floor kind of events, and then being able to say, well, I was there when it was like year three or year two or what have you, that's the coolest thing. And one of the things I love about

Emi B (03:50.018)

Yeah.

Chad (04:07.426)

Fest is like, as you had said, you get an opportunity to go to these different tents, right? It's very festival kind of feeling. You go to these tents and you get a chance to learn. know, bars open up, you have some drinks with your friends, with your peers, with your boss, and it's like an all hands meeting, right? And it's literally, to be quite frank, it's kind of like a cheater all hands meeting. We need to have...

this morale booster thing that's going on or what have you. You've got one a year, maybe two a year that you're allowed to have breakfasts. Like the easiest kind of like plug and play, right?

J.T. O'Donnell (04:42.481)

I totally agree. And like you said, when they're smaller like this and they're only getting bigger, you're going to meet people. mean, I've been, we've all been in the industry way too long, too long. And I'm still so close with people that I met the first time I was going to those things, right? And I'm still in touch with them. Now's the time to start making your contacts at a conference like that one, or a festival, a true festival.

Chad (04:50.414)

Hahaha

Chad (04:54.626)

Da, da.

Chad (05:01.454)

Yeah.

Emi B (05:01.95)

100%. And I've bumped into so many people that I haven't actually seen in years. I remember there was one lady, Hayley, who I know from Dubai. And I just saw her in a crowd when I was on stage. I was like, oh my God, hi. You know, we like went over, ran over to each other, hugged each other. Fantastic. As well as people that I've met in the four years that I've been back here. So absolutely love it. Agree with both of you. People who haven't been before, definitely get your tickets, get your tickets, do whatever you can to get your bosses to agree to let you to go.

Chad (05:09.311)

wow.

Chad (05:19.182)

and

J.T. O'Donnell (05:29.349)

Yeah, and I'm just going to volunteer because a lot of people go, I don't want to go by myself. I'm going go to this event and I'm not going to know anybody and I don't want to go by myself. I'm a personal tour guide in the fall. If you're by yourself, you come in with me and we'll just get all the loners together and we will be the funnest party there. I am just calling it now. So if you're loner and you're getting a ticket, message me on LinkedIn, you're with me.

Chad (05:35.864)

Yeah.

Chad (05:39.59)

Ha

Emi B (05:39.888)

Ha

Chad (05:49.602)

Okay. I can see JT is like, she's got the tour guide. She's going to have the little flag where everybody can see her. She'll have like the little earpiece that everybody can be like, she can talk into. Yeah. She can go through. Yeah. No, that's, that sounds great. We should actually talk to Jamie about that. That would be, that would be amazing. But before we go to Nashville, Emmy has, she has a little bit, a little bit more of England that she would like to talk about. So go ahead, Emmy, go hit it, hit it.

Emi B (05:50.936)

JT's gonna have 50 people behind her.

Yeah.

Meh.

Emi B (06:16.654)

Yes, yes. So my shout out is for the England Ladies football team. So, AKA the Lionesses. Now, just for anyone who doesn't know, this is an incredible achievement for the England Ladies. And I'm not even a hardcore football fan. You I'm one of those people who's like, oh, you're a well-carved, then I watch it. You know, I'm not going to watch football every single week, but the whole is like the whole of the UK, whole of England, but behind the England Ladies and.

Chad (06:38.99)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (06:44.418)

Okay, okay.

Emi B (06:45.014)

If you weren't there, if you haven't read the news, if you didn't watch the TV, the football match on TV, basically it was dramatic. it was after full time against Spain, it was a one-one draw, which, and then it means it was going to go to extra time and then it went to penalties. And that's what I hate. This is why I can't watch football every single week because my heart is like, all the time. So it got to penalties and then we had amazing saves from the keeper, Hannah Hampton.

Chad (07:01.614)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (07:13.25)

No, no.

Emi B (07:14.626)

two incredible saves. And then the last winning goal was by Chloe Kelly. And because of that, we beat Spain. We got to that title. So I just want to say amazing, massive, massive, massive win. So again, like I said, shout out to the Lionesses.

Chad (07:23.852)

big win.

Chad (07:30.862)

And I got to say momentum is a lot in sports, in business, in everything, because they look like utter shit early in the groups. They got destroyed by France. got, I mean, but they pulled it together. And I love that you can get knocked down, but I get up again. You know what talking about?

Emi B (07:39.401)

yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Emi B (07:45.23)

Because they're resilient. Yeah. Get knocked out. Why do I keep singing on this show? I love it.

Chad (07:54.796)

You know why you keep singing, because you love it. All right, I'm to go ahead and hit My Shoutout, sponsored by Kiora, by the way. If you need powerful messaging made for your applicant tracking system, check out Kiora. That's K-E-E-Y-O-R-A. That's a spelling, kids. Wow. They make hiring faster and provide a much better candidate experience. That's kiora.com. My Shoutout is to understanding

workforce, the workforce landscape as a whole. And let me set this up for you, because I've got a question for both of you, because this is perfect for both of you. So Tim Sackett, who you probably all know either from online or you've met him, he posted the following on LinkedIn, quote, 60 % of new grads are female. If this chart was flipped, we'd all be losing our minds about how unfair this is. Why is no one paying attention now?

Emi B (08:29.485)

Okay.

Chad (08:48.376)

question mark. So Tim is sounding the alarm about how this isn't fair for men. Now, when an old white dude is hollering about equity and equality and discrimination of dudes, I usually just tune it out, right? But then I saw a list compiled from a Fortune magazine article of the top 20 highest paid CEOs in the US. And guess how many of them are female?

Emi B (09:16.942)

Please tell me there's more than one. Zero. Okay.

Chad (09:18.51)

Zero nada nada none. So JT, JT, I'm gonna go to you first. I'm gonna hit you up first because you are the resident American. What do you think? Are Tim's thoughts valid? Should we be quote unquote losing our minds because women comprise 60 % of the new college grads this is unfair to men while the boardroom is still predominantly male? What do you think?

J.T. O'Donnell (09:42.364)

So when I saw that stat, my head went to a totally different place. And if you let me play this out, you'll see, if 60 % of the women are getting degrees, right now there's a huge trend saying, do we really need degrees anymore? They're expensive, they're not getting anybody anything. So what I see there is we're forcing women to take on massive debt for jobs that may or may not ever help them repay that debt. So are women slow to the curve, right? So first of all, we were slow to getting in and getting the...

degrees. Now we think the solution is to get the degrees when it actually isn't. And that the reason is down is that guys have figured that out and said, I can go start companies and I don't need a degree. I mean, I just think you see that that data and it's too surface. I look immediately beyond it and say, I actually think there are implications for women in that data that are not good. Certainly based on what we're seeing right now, the unemployment rate, the fact that there are no entry level jobs for recent grads. And you're talking about all these women entering the force and not being able to get them. Is it going to get worse? So

Chad (10:23.852)

Yes.

Chad (10:30.199)

Mm-hmm.

J.T. O'Donnell (10:39.194)

That's my take in it. think you've got to look way beyond and try to understand the data from a different

Chad (10:44.014)

Gotcha. Emmy?

Emi B (10:46.094)

think it's really sad, you know, like it's disappointing. I'm one of those people, know, yeah, I was told go to university, get a good job. And I'm hopefully, you never know, one day I might be striving for that CEO role. And I want to know that I can actually get that role. But unfortunately in 2025, it looks like that glass ceiling is still there for females. Their bias against females getting those senior level roles is still there despite everything we're doing to have a more equitable workplace.

Chad (11:12.558)

Yeah, when you look at the number, a number like this in a vacuum, I really believe you're doing yourself and others a disservice. For instance, something that dramatically impacts that number are men going into the trade. So in 2019, trade supported over 41 million jobs in the US alone.

J.T. O'Donnell (11:24.379)

Huge.

Chad (11:40.204)

representing roughly one in five jobs in the US. And women only make up 4 % of those trade workforce jobs, okay? While men are obviously the other 96%. So which means what? Men can receive certifications in weeks and or months, not years. And in many cases, the company pays for their certifications. While women, to your point, JT,

are going deep into college debt. So there are many, many, many things that one solitude graph just won't tell you. I really, one of the things when I have discussions with people, whether online or like this or on calls or what have you, I always ask them to go deeper. Taking quote unquote research or hot takes at face value.

Emi B (12:20.27)

in

Chad (12:38.146)

That's not enough. your research, research, research, research, think deeper. And that was my shout out for today is I appreciate Tim throwing that out there because we can have this discussion. But again, it goes deeper than just that 60 % number. We have CEOs, we have debt, we have trades, and that's just a few points. There are many other points, but if you do the research, you know that. If you don't,

You get pissy about one.

J.T. O'Donnell (13:09.457)

Totally agree. Yeah. You know, there's a stat in the U S really quick to kind of bounce on that. So the vast majority of small businesses are owned by women. They're started and owned by women, but the number of small businesses that do over half a million dollars a year, right? Not even over half a million dollars a year that are owned by women. It's like some ridiculous number, like 0.2%. It's like not even, do you see what saying? So these, these small businesses, they're doing it because they can't get the real job. So then you imagine, okay, so they go get degrees, they're debt-laden. It just.

Chad (13:13.677)

Yeah.

Emi B (13:26.798)

Mm.

J.T. O'Donnell (13:38.009)

It's a bad stitch that we need to pay more attention to.

Chad (13:39.726)

Well, not to mention you're talking about today, and I don't see you see all over the news, all of these individuals, men and women who are getting degrees that can't find jobs, right? So kind of like to what you're talking about, fast followers, JT, where you're like, at this point, they're just saying that they, know, and maybe they don't want to pay for going deep into debt, number one. Number two, take a look at the trades. But again, there are so many aspects to this.

Emi B (13:50.509)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (14:05.966)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (14:06.85)

Another aspect which you're going to talk about is people like us. Gen Z or Gen X. I'm sorry, I'm not Gen Z. Gen X. think Emmy might be Gen Z.

J.T. O'Donnell (14:11.227)

Yeah. Gen X. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, we were like, you know, Gen X was the first one to say, you know, screw business attire. We're going, you know, casual Friday. We're bringing jeans to the office, all that kind of stuff. And, know, we were like, we don't want to run companies. We just want to do our own thing. And we're the smallest generation between boomers and millennials and like all this great stuff. And now Wall Street Journal comes out and says, guess what?

Chad (14:22.915)

Yep.

You

J.T. O'Donnell (14:37.423)

Now you think you're ready. Now you think you're ready to take over that C-suite role and make the big bucks. Not going to happen because those boomers are keeping the jobs. Darn it. They're just staying in the workforce and you're going to completely skipped over. And this is true. You're going to be knocked out and they're going to give it to millennials. So my Gen Zers out there, hey, know, our, you know, eff it attitude is coming back to bite us right now for sure.

Emi B (14:45.55)

.

Chad (14:45.944)

Tons of bitches.

Chad (15:01.25)

Yeah, I don't think it's the F it attitude. I just think it is that the fucking boomers are sucking up everything they possibly can. Houses, boats, wives. mean, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, I'm just talking about. So I mean, yeah, the overall it's like boomers do me a favor, get the fuck out.

J.T. O'Donnell (15:10.095)

Retire. Retire.

Emi B (15:11.054)

Hahaha

Emi B (15:17.582)

Did you say wives?

J.T. O'Donnell (15:19.183)

Yeah, boats and hoes. Who's going to be playing the boats and hoes track right now, right?

J.T. O'Donnell (15:30.287)

Next chapter.

Emi B (15:31.438)

BLEH

Chad (15:31.468)

Yeah, okay, you can't afford the five houses that you own unless you keep your job. Sell two of them. The housing market needs it.

Emi B (15:39.65)

Yeah, but they may not be able to afford the one that they have. You're assuming that they have five houses. It's a tough old world out there at the moment. People don't have money. They're going to have to stay in jobs forever.

Chad (15:48.174)

Yeah, boomers have money, bastards. All right, Emmy, you've got a little...

Chad (15:57.666)

There we go.

J.T. O'Donnell (15:57.778)

Yes, I am so excited and honored to be doing it today. I am actually wearing the new t-shirt and dang, she is comfy people. You want this t-shirt, you want this free stuff, let's go through the list and kick it off with some whiskey. The tech experts over at Van Hal. Yeah, that's some yummy, yummy whiskey right there. So good on the lips. And you know, if you want to try to keep it pure, you can go with bourbon barrel aged syrup.

Chad (16:01.537)

GT, nice.

You

Chad (16:09.592)

Yes.

Chad (16:19.438)

You

Chad (16:25.004)

Hmm.

J.T. O'Donnell (16:25.533)

over at Kiora, you already talked about them. Great sponsors. Amazing. mean, syrup with liquor in it. Come on. You know you want some, right? You know you want some. No kids. This is, this is mommy syrup. Erin App. I love y'all. These are the t-shirts, right? The new ones, am I right? And they are so good. So good. okay. So if you don't want to do the hard alcohol, it's okay. We'll just get you some craft beer. You're just going to go on over and you're going to get that from Aspen Tech Labs. Thank you. Aspen Tech Labs. Craft beer is still hot.

Chad (16:32.684)

It's delicious, kids. It's delicious.

Emi B (16:37.838)

you

Chad (16:43.255)

No.

J.T. O'Donnell (16:55.609)

And then of course you'll hear it next week when Joel's back, but birthdays, it's always good with little rum from Plum.

How'd I do? I only forgot one thing. I'm waiting for Jill to break.

Chad (17:07.318)

That's right. Wonderful. you know I can.

Chad (17:15.574)

Yeah, we'll get back on birthdays next week. know Joel's always bitching about how long our list is. That's a good and a bad thing. That just means we have an amazing listener base, but yeah.

Emi B (17:21.902)

That's a good thing.

J.T. O'Donnell (17:21.925)

I know. That's a good thing. I did forget to say Chadcheese.com slash free Chad cheese. There's no end in there. Chadcheese.com slash free. Go sign up so that you can get your free very cool shit.

Emi B (17:25.262)

Yes.

Chad (17:36.99)

Excellent. Wait a minute. I've now got to look at for my stuff. there it is.

Chad (17:49.262)

All right, we've got some industry updates, kids. First thing we're going to talk about is Bold. You might know them as the new Monster slash Career Builder. Monster employees received an email this week from Jamie and Doug. That's right, Jamie and Doug, the co-founders and co-CEOs of Bold. Jamie and Doug, they sound like real down-to-earth kind of names, right? Anyways, the email was long and boring, which I would...

to assume that you would get a long and boring email from a Jamie and or a Doug. But there was one part that caught my eye around the quote unquote transition plan, which bold is working with existing career builder plus monster executive team that we call that the zombie team and pledges a quote unquote thoughtful transition to avoid confusion during this period. They will temporarily temporarily

pause the international job board portal business in their current form. However, they intend to extend offers to hundreds of CareerBuilder plus Monster teammates, mainly because they have to, in the US and abroad, specifically mentioning the Czech Republic, India, and Malaysia. This aligns with court documents, see, court documents, indicating that Bold is obligated to hire several hundred employees

from the back rub company. Okay, so let's dig in a little bit deeper into this thoughtful transition and how it's going. Fairly simple, you can all do this right now. Go to your browser, type in monster.com. You will see a big image that pretty much takes up the whole top of the fold, which says your launch pad to what's next. And literally it just goes through and starts talking about bold services, okay?

boost your chances with handpicked job wrecks and let recruiters come to you, which sounds very much like the ladders, which was a very scammy job site back in the day. I think it still is. Then there's a little register button and you can register now, right? Last week we talked about Bold's Jobseeker monetization models where they're making money off of Jobseeker subscriptions like FlexJobs, where they have a mandatory registration.

Chad (20:08.088)

to get into site number one, then they charge job seekers to review the full job and apply for said job. So it sounds like they're poised to meld the bold model into Monster plus Career Builder. And then you pop over to any of the European Monster sites and yep, they're all down, pulled the plug, no access for anyone. If you were an employer that had a job credit or posting balance,

I hate to say it kids, but guess what?

Chad (20:48.438)

Not a neeks, not a fucking thing. France, UK, Italy, Germany, and the list goes on. Sites are down and, I mean, paused, my bad. Now, models, European sites, Ronstadt, a European company, abandoning their employees, EMI, this is impacting the European market more negatively than the market. So what do you think?

Emi B (21:08.824)

Mm-hmm.

Well, first of all, I don't even understand why bold is actually in cahoots with career build and monster, because I don't understand that model at all. Why? But this is what I don't understand. Yeah. And I don't know where they're seeing the value out of these two dinosaur brands. mean, I don't know if it's they're thinking, they've got massive data lakes that they can take advantage of. it their massive existing customer base? Is it the fact that global footprint, even though

Chad (21:19.96)

Big bottle.

The juice,

Emi B (21:41.848)

they're shutting down their international job portals. So that's my first thought. My second thought is I don't understand why they're screwing over candidates in Europe. I don't understand the thought process behind it. I don't understand if candidates are going to get their job credits back. I'm really confused by this whole strategy. Yeah.

Chad (22:01.71)

Well, that's employers, employers for job postings that had them on Career Builder and Monster possibly. Greenlee Monster, yeah, it was employers.

Emi B (22:06.476)

Sorry, yeah, yeah. So what happens? Do those job credits go back? Is it, how long is it temporarily on pause for? You know, there's so many unknowns there. And I just don't, I can't see how this is a good strategy for bold. I just think it's something that's going to fail. And like I said, I'd love to understand why they went down this particular route.

Chad (22:31.822)

What do think, JT?

J.T. O'Donnell (22:32.313)

Okay. So first of all, I'm to go back to the letter. Will people stop doing letters and just record a darn video? I'm so, I'm so done with the letter. It's from Jamie and Doug. Jamie and Doug, get on a video. Talk like normal people. Authenticate that you're real. Let us get to know you. Right?

Chad (22:48.11)

In flannel shirts, because Jamie and Doug would think would have flannel shirts, right?

J.T. O'Donnell (22:53.937)

That's my point though, right? You know, we've this is from Jamie and Doug get on video enough with the archaic letter that obviously somebody else wrote I'm just Alright, second thing is where I see bold going is they're taking a page from LinkedIn No one talks about that LinkedIn makes a half a billion Half a billion with a B dollars a year off their job seeker premium Services, right? So they have this they give it away for a month for free and then you start getting charged per month

They have a community, they have courses, right? You get a few freebies on your profile. And they're making tons of money in this market. So everyone's finally looking and saying, wait, okay, we can't make money off the employers anymore. AI is going to crush everything, simplify everything. Where's the revenue stream? There's all these people that need jobs and the market's bad. Let's go make some money off them. So my prediction is that they're capitalizing a monster and career builders, massive amount of job seekers.

are struggling remembering those names and then you start to pull in and you already said some of the services that they're going to start to utilize. So it doesn't surprise me at all that that's where they're headed.

Emi B (24:00.654)

Do think it'll work?

J.T. O'Donnell (24:03.067)

I mean, sadly it does work because job seekers get so desperate. If you know how to market it to them, they're going to go ahead and they're going to, they're going to purchase it, especially with a brand name like, you know, LinkedIn or whoever, you know, so they're, think they're totally capitalizing that in the reach. the churn won't be great. So if you're going to evaluate them on their lifetime customer value and you know, subscription levels, they're going to see massive amount of churn, but do they care because if they can build a profit model and just at any given time have that many people going through.

they're gonna make a lot of money. so, yeah, I think it's gonna work. It's gonna work.

Emi B (24:35.512)

See, I'm not sure if it will because I think from a candidate point of view, like I get the model that works with LinkedIn, but Monster's a shitty brand name. So the candidates want to go and spend, if they're going to spend their hard earned, well, the little cash that they have because they don't want to waste it because they're not working, why put your money into an organization with a brand name that you just don't trust anymore? But yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (24:59.365)

Yeah, no, and it totally great point. I just look at the amount of people that are spending money on stupid, stupid AI stuff. Like let me create your resume and send it out to a thousand jobs a night, you know, for $39 a month. You know, that kind of stuff is gumming up our system, messing things up, but job seekers are buying it because it's not even. We want to coin them lazy, but it's, don't know what they don't know. And so if these, if they do a good job of marketing it in a certain way to a bunch of desperate people, they're going by it.

Emi B (25:14.531)

Yeah.

Chad (25:21.806)

Yeah, exactly.

Chad (25:29.39)

Yeah, I mean, I was watching like a 30 minute video of a market this morning. It was CNBC. There were economists on there that sound like fucking idiots. were, mean, even the experts that are trying to get into this space to better analyze the space have no fucking clue what they're talking about, right? And I think that's the key thing here to think about like a job seeker coming into it. And you're 100 % right, JT. There's the level of desperation is starting to.

I mean, it's not just hot, it is inferno right now, right? And these individuals need jobs. So they're gonna do whatever it takes. You take a look at the market, right? Now, to answer your question with regard to Monster and CareerBuilder having bad brands, it's almost like the under new management sign that you see at some of those restaurants that you know, like, that's gonna change everything, right? Under new management. That's where they're gonna try to go.

Emi B (26:25.27)

Chad (26:26.218)

on the European side, I don't see those sites coming back. When you shut those sites down and Google sees it and they don't have access to the footprint that you had there before, even though they've been around for a very long time, it's gonna start to atrophy with Google. Now, I really believe, and I could be wrong, but I believe the smart way would be to sell those because I do know for a fact, and talking to lovely people over here in Europe,

There are other companies who wanted to buy those specific monster URLs, monster France, monster Germany, monster UK, because they did have really good business models that were there. So I think there's a difference in Europe than there is in the US. But at the end of the day, it's going to be really hard. It's going to be hard to.

J.T. O'Donnell (27:20.911)

I think Jamie and Doug, if you're listening, I know you are. You need to pull a Red Lobster. I want you to go watch Red Lobster and their CEO just brought the Red Lobster comeback. I think you take a page from him and you got a shot at it with Monster and Career Builders. So there you go. You can pay me later.

Emi B (27:25.806)

you

Chad (27:32.002)

Yeah.

Chad (27:39.906)

Very nice. Okay, we're gonna jump on to one that we have to keep out there so people are noticing and listening and understanding. Job.com. This is an update and let me preface with, I never thought this story went so deep and the impacts on employees were so damaging. I posted the very first message on LinkedIn and literally thought it was about bankruptcy.

Then it went deeper and deeper and deeper. And I received the following information from ex job.com employees. So currently around 30 job.com employees have found, have come forward to share that they are still owed $127,000 in payroll alone from job.com. This does not include health insurance withholdings, 401k, garnishments and state and federal tax withholding. So over the past couple of weeks,

I've heard personal stories of individuals owed in excess of $50,000 and other individuals didn't realize their healthcare coverage, know, the thing that we pay monthly insurance premiums for. Yeah, those withheld premiums weren't paid to the insurance company. So individuals, because they didn't have coverage, had to pay medical expenses out of their pocket. And if anybody in the US knows about US medical expenses, they're fucking sky high. Other individuals,

who had child support garnishments from their paychecks, their families never received the child support checks. And then there's the tax problems, John.com withheld state and federal taxes. And here's what ex-employee and HR pro, Lauren Braddock had to say in a comment on LinkedIn, quote, that means John.com stole tax deductions, stole tax deductions and didn't report.

or pay them to state or federal government for Q2, Q3, and Q4. believe this is for 2024. We have no W2s, but we have paid all of our taxes to job.com, end quote. So dude, I've been talking to ex-employees for weeks. Their stories all line up. They're getting louder. All I can say is that if you are an employer that does wrong like this,

Chad (30:07.958)

employees can't stay quiet. That's not the answer. More than likely, you're not gonna get what you were earned in the first place. So more importantly, you have to go get more people. You have to get them together, which is exactly what job.com was doing. It was a bunch of people that were sporadic. They all had the same issues. They all had the same problem. Now they're starting to come together. Hopefully we're gonna get the group into the DOL and DOJ and get that taken care of, but.

Again, get loud people because companies who act this way want you to be silent.

J.T. O'Donnell (30:42.521)

It's true. And it's sad that, you know, it's one of those things that isn't going to necessarily make national news until you cause enough stink about it. Right. So I commend you for working that all of them out there that came together, like you said, that found each other and said, maybe we need to start telling this up and using social media to build visibility around it. So, so very important. Right. That is one of the things that I think is great about social media, what it's allowed us to do. We didn't have that before. You know, think about that. This would have they would have never had a shot.

Chad (30:50.893)

Yeah.

Chad (31:00.515)

Yeah.

Emi B (31:06.594)

Mm-hmm.

J.T. O'Donnell (31:11.281)

But now thanks to that and certainly, you know, platforms like this reminding people that's not good business, know, somebody should pay and that's like jail time. Somebody should pay, you know.

Emi B (31:20.364)

Yeah. And hopefully they will. And I think, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this is the same company where their execs were posting pictures, family vacation pictures on social media. So yeah. Okay. So the insensitivity of that is outstanding because you're thinking you've got enough money now to take your family on these beautiful holidays. But what about your employees who haven't been paid for weeks, who are now going to be, you know, haven't received their checks, who are struggling? What about them?

Chad (31:30.466)

Yes.

Emi B (31:50.554)

They don't care about them. They don't care. I don't think they're understanding that they are impacting individuals. Their impact is broken trust, it's damaged careers, it's a terrible brand name now. It's financial headaches for their employees who basically did nothing wrong and their livelihoods are now on the line whilst they're setting it up somewhere in the sun.

Chad (32:11.128)

Yeah, well, the optics for employees who got shafted, right? That's an incredibly tone deaf. I mean, you're driving around Ferraris, you have yachts or boats, whatever classification you want to make. You have yachts, you you you're posting pictures of you and your beautiful family. And that's awesome going on vacation, but you're saying this is all for the family and whose family? Because...

Emi B (32:36.012)

Whose family? It's not their, not the employee's family.

Chad (32:37.85)

Exactly. This is not for the, this, this was never for the people who worked for job.com. It was for the executives. Right. And that's, that's the hard part in every single story that I hear just literally corroborates all the other ones because they all line up. So it's really, I mean, it's, it's been depressing. Don't get me wrong, but to have those types of discussions and to push them into a group so that they could actually have a group.

Emi B (32:43.854)

Yeah.

Chad (33:08.032)

of people to hopefully figure this out. That's again, hopefully we can continue to shed light on this and not just, know, obviously job.com gets what they deserve, which to be quite frank, I feel like it's orange jumpsuits, but that's not for me to make a decision. That's not for me to make a decision. But until we start to see huge impacts on white collar crime, it's going to continue like this. It's continue.

Big deep breath, kids, we'll be right

Emi B (33:40.994)

Yeah

Chad (33:44.526)

All right, have you heard of Anthropic? If you haven't, kids, have you been in the fetal position in the corner for a while? don't know. Anthropic, also known as Claude, is back at the AI ATM, reportedly raising up to five bu-bu-billion at a jaw-dropping 170 bu-b-billion valuation, nearly 3X.

J.T. O'Donnell (33:49.925)

What?

Chad (34:13.674)

It's March worth. Earlier this year, 3X March with annual revenues surging to 4 billion and big name investors like Iconic, Amazon, and even Gulf sovereign funds. That sounds shady. In play, the clawed creators are gunning for elite status. A couple of weeks ago, I gave a little history lesson about the dot com

Emi B (34:17.976)

Can you

Emi B (34:41.166)

Okay.

Chad (34:43.65)

Boom, I don't know if you remember that.

Emi B (34:45.792)

No, I'm too young. yes.

Chad (34:48.59)

Of course you were too young. Anyway, the dot com gold rush failed with victims like pets.com. And I really feel that the early days of AI are kind of running almost on the same rails. Do you think so? Do you think that we're putting way too much money into this way too soon? Or do you think this is how we get to AGI slash super intelligence slash Skynet?

Emi B (35:17.654)

I, the latter, I don't think we're putting too much money into it soon. I think that's the way that the world is actually going. So I get it. I get everybody kind of investing in this field. What I don't get though, is the fact that they're going down the middle Eastern route to actually raise money. Because you know, yeah. And I'll tell you why, obviously I'm a massive fan of the Middle East. I lived in Dubai for 12 years, absolutely loved it. However, this is a company that said, I cannot invest. We can't take money from.

Chad (35:21.272)

Okay.

Chad (35:34.978)

Chad (35:39.725)

Yeah.

Chad (35:46.434)

Yeah, Yep.

Emi B (35:46.7)

you know, dictator, dictator, like countries and, you know, this is goes against our ethics and we are a morally sound organization. But now, because you got other people competing against you, you realize and shit, okay, if I need to stay ahead, I need that Middle Eastern money. That is all the ethics have gone out the window. Interesting.

Chad (36:07.276)

Yes. Well, I think I can hear the anthropic co-founders now.

Emi B (36:15.758)

I love those.

Chad (36:16.332)

Yeah.

Chad (36:21.624)

What do think, JT?

J.T. O'Donnell (36:23.985)

So I'm with you because sadly I was around for the dot com. was I was in Silicon Valley working at the time, right around the time the dot com bust. I think about the wave that happened with smartphones and apps. Remember that whole like everybody needed an app and that boomed for a while. I absolutely believe we're in the beginning phases that I think the next 18 to 24 months we're going to see the craziest types of AI companies come about. It's always interesting to see who wins, you know, but

Chad (36:36.13)

Yeah. Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (36:52.581)

with that comes a lot of losers. And I think you're right. I think we're about to see a lot of AI losers out there, especially in our space. mean, people are every single day have the AI solution to recruiting and they built it themselves on an app for $0.

Chad (37:09.496)

I mean, to that point, yeah, I mean, to that point, I mean, we talked about last week, we talked about MetaView who literally it's $50 a month for like an AI note taker, like on steroids, right? An AI note taker on steroids. And then I compared it to Riverside. This is the platform that we're using right now and the deliverables that's only $24 a month. And it's just like, we're not even close to the rest of the industries at all.

We are literally scratching the fucking surface at this point.

J.T. O'Donnell (37:42.097)

100%. And as we all get more sophisticated with it, I look at how much more I use it now than I did three months ago. It's incredible the way it's ingraining itself into my life and everybody else's.

Emi B (37:42.798)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (37:47.884)

Mm.

Emi B (37:54.562)

It's your every day is like planning your shopping, like putting together recipes, putting together your holiday itinerary, you know? Yeah, a hundred percent. couldn't live, I don't even remember life without this. Yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (38:05.585)

Honestly, I used to Google everything, tell me this, tell me that, and now it's just the Chad GPT app going there. No ads, no ranking, just give me an answer in my voice.

Chad (38:09.571)

Yes.

Emi B (38:11.373)

Yes!

Chad (38:12.47)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just give me a goddamn answer. mean, Anthropic is at about 21 billion in funding right now, 4 billion in ARR. OpenAI is about 12 billion in ARR. And if you think about it on the Amazon side of the house, because Amazon's got some pretty tight ties, if you can start to pull...

Emi B (38:15.32)

Yeah?

Chad (38:41.858)

developers, right? AI developers into the Amazon cloud, into AWS to do updates, right? How quick can that happen? And how many people can you now push toward forward thinking development versus updates and those types of things. So yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent, JT, I believe there are going to be winners and losers, but I also agree with Emmy because at the end of the day, that's exactly why.

Emi B (39:11.064)

They need the money.

Chad (39:11.758)

When say this, they're taking this dirty money. And because they know if they do not, they could be proper fucked. They could be proper fucked.

Emi B (39:13.955)

Yeah.

Emi B (39:19.246)

They're going to be left behind. They're literally going to be left behind. Yeah. And I think this is where companies now have to start thinking because it's not just, it's not just this company taking Middle Eastern money. Other, other people are taking Middle Eastern money now. So the companies now have to think, okay, if they want to grow, do they, they got to, you know, that little balancing act between company values versus growth. So they need to ask themselves, am I going to stick to my values? You know, even if it's going to slow my organization down or.

Chad (39:41.078)

huh.

Emi B (39:48.014)

Are we willing to compromise? Are we willing to make peace with those gray areas if it helps us to scale? That's what companies are going to have to start asking themselves. That's what Anthropic has asked themselves. And it means for TA teams, talent acquisition teams, when they're speaking to candidates now, how are they going to explain to top AI candidates why they're taking this dirty money that they're calling? And how is that part of their responsible innovation strategy? How are you going to spin that? Yeah.

Chad (40:14.574)

They're hoping that nobody's paying attention is what you're doing. They're hoping that nobody's paying attention. Exactly. Everybody's going to know. Another company who is saying things and probably hoping that people are going to forget what they just said is ServiceNow. So we're going to go ahead and play a video from ServiceNow CEO Bill McDermott.

Emi B (40:19.854)

Too late, we're talking about it now, so everyone's gonna know. Yeah.

Chad (40:40.706)

who has been making some waves with some of these comments. Here we go.

Chad (40:59.438)

Tell me that's not Uncle Baby Billy.

Chad (41:13.582)

80 %

Chad (41:50.582)

Okay, so let's start out with how he looks like a TV evangelist. Can we start there like a character out of righteous gemstones? that Uncle Baby Billy? Does that not look like?

Emi B (41:56.366)

you

J.T. O'Donnell (42:05.893)

Right now, I'm struggling.

Emi B (42:10.914)

He looks like an avatar. Like he looks like a...

Chad (42:11.0)

Yes.

J.T. O'Donnell (42:12.497)

Who told him to the glasses on?

Chad (42:14.862)

Dude, mean that's that's like his look now. That's like his look. I mean, you know, but you know soul-crushing jobs Did you did you like how good old bill the tell? Evangelist framed soul-crushing jobs into that whole thing. What did you take from?

J.T. O'Donnell (42:34.161)

okay, so first of all, we've said for the longest time, I mean, I tell job seekers all the time, companies don't want more employees, they want less. To them, employees are unreliable and expensive. You know what I mean? And he literally just said that. He didn't try to hide it. I mean, they're just done now. I think CEOs are like, no, we're just gonna say what we really feel. So clearly he just confirmed that, and he's proud. I don't have to pay the benefits. Yeah, it works 24-7.

Chad (43:01.09)

No lunch times? Bathroom breaks? No.

J.T. O'Donnell (43:02.545)

they're my favorite employees. glasses. What? Just yikes. I man, man, man, man. It just okay. But can I just say he did video? He video

Emi B (43:03.662)

No!

Chad (43:16.972)

Am I? Yes.

Emi B (43:20.387)

He did a video, yes! He did do an email.

Chad (43:21.986)

with a really shitty background. mean, for God's sakes, you're the CEO of a fucking major organization. Everybody knows it's a fucking, it's a, first and foremost, it's a software-esque company, a SaaS company. Give me a fucking break. Are you kidding me?

Emi B (43:36.43)

Mm-hmm.

J.T. O'Donnell (43:40.433)

I just can't, mean the whole optics didn't, it just, there was nobody there coaching that. Nobody there coaching the optics on that one. Zero people present. Did he that on his own maybe? He's just gonna push that one out.

Emi B (43:54.956)

He probably went on to chat GBT and go, yeah, write me a script. Go, yeah, this sounds good. I sound really intelligent. And it's like, no, you sound like a dick. You sound like an insensitive dick. You're talking about taking away people's jobs. It's like, what are you doing? You're talking about employees which are in your organization right now who are going to shit themselves thinking, maybe my job, my job, which I actually love is actually soul crushing because my CEO told me my own job is soul crushing. Idiot. It's like.

Why? Like you said, who taught him? No one. Where's your media training?

J.T. O'Donnell (44:28.509)

No. And then, mean, it's like, they probably were like, it's not soul crushing until they outsourced it. And they're like, you're right, it wasn't soul crushing. We don't want to say anything to you. Yeah.

Emi B (44:34.688)

Yeah!

Chad (44:37.582)

It's, we are getting the quiet part out loud more than we ever have. And just doing some basic research with BLS says three million jobs in the U.S. for customer support. Okay. Three million. Security and risk management. These are just some of the ones that he talked about. About 200,000 in the U.S. alone. Go to market. He's talking about sales, number of sales jobs. Good God.

We're talking about, depending if you can even wrap in retail, which they will start doing, we're talking about around 13 million jobs, US alone, right? So think of that from a global standpoint, because this is going to happen globally. But here's Billy's real motivation, quote, agents work hard 24 by seven. You don't have to pay them. They don't need the lunch and they don't...

have any healthcare benefits. So they're very affordable. So for me, welcome to late stage capitalism, which is more like a feudal system, automate to get rid of wages, benefits, off time, sick benefits, but what about the taxes? Nobody is mentioning the taxes because we still have police, fire departments, education locally, Roads.

J.T. O'Donnell (45:51.313)

Mmm.

Chad (45:59.734)

infrastructure, all these different things that we have to pay for. If we don't have people paying taxes, whether it's employers or employees, how the fuck does any of that even work?

J.T. O'Donnell (46:15.269)

Yeah, where you gonna get the money?

Chad (46:15.874)

How does it work?

J.T. O'Donnell (46:19.257)

Yeah, I think and I think what's hard to just bigger picture. People just aren't fully grasping how many jobs are going to be lost. You know, like people are nervous. They know the economy isn't good. They're nervous. But people, they're just still not studying and understanding AI nor do they understand business enough to know that they're coming for your job too. And it's

Emi B (46:21.176)

Sad world.

Chad (46:40.844)

Yeah, but I think they're saying shysters that are out there like the CEO from Klarna that says they're going to cut 700 jobs for AI, right? And it was a total lie because all they did was offshore them, right? They offshore them and they're like, this really isn't happening. You know, so they're kind of lulled into a false sense of security. Well, when they understand that Klarna is just, mean, they're amateur-esque when it comes to the rest of these companies, right? We just talked about an anthropic.

Emi B (46:51.307)

Outsource it. Yeah.

Chad (47:10.018)

You get that kind of money, some shit's gonna happen. So, I mean, for me, I agree. There are many jobs that are at risk. And it's interesting because I actually saw an interview with Matt Alder not too long ago. And he said that like 18 months ago, he thought, yeah, no, this is gonna be the perfect like Iron Man suit. Everybody's going to have a great opportunity to have an assistant to be able to help them do what they want. Now he believes, no, those motherfuckers are gonna take some jobs.

Right? So they're starting to become this, this, this idea of, shit, this is happening.

J.T. O'Donnell (47:48.666)

Yeah, I mean, but the futurists were saying out of the gate, look, we're going to lose 86 million jobs. We're eventually going to gain 93 million, but that's not happening at the same time. We've known it was coming, right? Like we will bounce back and have lots of new interesting jobs with job titles that we can't even imagine yet. And that's exciting. That's not happening in the next 18 months. I don't know what's in the next 24.

Chad (47:56.6)

Yes.

Chad (48:05.452)

Well, the transition though, what does that transition look like and how many people are actually thrown into poverty while all of that is actually happening? Not to mention if people are thrown in, not just the people that are thrown in poverty, the people that are actually kicked out of jobs, again, taxes aren't paid. We don't have police, we don't have firemen, we don't have teachers, we don't have infrastructure because that's what taxes pay for kids. Your local tax, I mean, your community is supported by all.

Emi B (48:05.582)

Mm.

J.T. O'Donnell (48:13.392)

Yeah, Intel and Elixir.

Chad (48:35.035)

And we don't think of it as from our standpoint local.

Emi B (48:39.852)

And organizations aren't going to though, because all they're thinking about is their bottom line. They're not thinking about that. No, no, no, they're not. They're thinking that I've got an organization to keep afloat. So what are the numbers? can keep, can make, you know, increase the numbers by decreasing head count and bringing in machines. That is what they're thinking about. They're not thinking about the social, you know, the social, I suppose the social. Yeah, no, yeah, that's not, that's not, that's not up to them as they, as, you know, as far as they're concerned. That's somebody else's problem.

J.T. O'Donnell (48:39.963)

Right.

Chad (48:43.244)

they don't

Chad (49:01.452)

ramifications, yeah.

Chad (49:09.565)

Okay, we're we're gonna, we're gonna, we're we're gonna get positive on this next one. We'll be right.

Emi B (49:14.766)

haha

Chad (49:19.188)

Okay, so this one, I gotta say, last week, and I'm sorry, Mo, but I actually cut Mo and Joel off last week, because they wouldn't stop talking about this fucking astronomer Coldplay thing. I just was like, I've seen it everywhere. I'm reliving it. But guess what we're going to talk about? Jesus Christ. Okay, so.

What do you do when your CEO gets caught embracing the chief people officer on Kiss Cam during a Coldplay concert? Well, you call in Gwyneth Paltrow, who else? Here, take a look at this, kids.

Chad (50:15.534)

my god, what the actual fuck?

Chad (50:25.068)

Not what they ask.

Chad (50:34.21)

How is your social media team holding up?

Chad (50:41.295)

Hahaha

Chad (50:49.422)

yeah, for all the audio listeners that aren't watching on YouTube, Gwyneth, and I was trying to interject in there, she actually didn't answer any of questions. That's one of the reasons why we were chuckling. And it was very, very much politician-esque. So she might be running for politics, who knows? So, okay, ladies.

J.T. O'Donnell (51:07.296)

yeah.

Chad (51:12.61)

Many people are calling this a masterclass in marketing. What are your thoughts? Emmy?

Emi B (51:18.926)

I think it's hilarious. I actually love it. The first time I watched it, I was like, I don't know what I'm watching here. And then I had to watch again and again. I thought this is too funny. This is a great way to like, when you've got shit, or you've got, what's it, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. I think that is this scenario here that we're watching. And then when I dug a little bit deeper, I actually found out that the agency that they're working with is actually Ryan Reynolds Agency.

Chad (51:34.318)

Uh-huh.

Chad (51:46.892)

Emi B (51:46.956)

So that's why they've got that kind of sarcasm. I was like, okay, cool. I get it. Because Gwenner Peltcher by herself is not that funny, but I quite like Ryan Reynolds. So I, be honest, I think it's good. I cause what are they gonna do? They're all over the press. Everyone's talking about them. This story is not going away. And I think that, you know, it's a great, if you're gonna spin it from, you know, what can companies and organizations learn from this? I feel like from an employer brand perspective, there's always gonna be,

where your employer brand is tarnished in some way to various degrees. So the lesson that I get from here is that, you know, if you're faced by scandal, whether it's your CEO, you know, getting on with a head of HR, just don't panic. Own the narrative, you know, and flip it into something positive, like what they're doing. So I love it. I think it's a great, great exercise. And it means that from a recruiting perspective, people are I showed them, yeah, let me just...

Chad (52:19.65)

Yeah.

Emi B (52:44.91)

click onto their website. Oh, let me click on their careers page. All of a sudden, I bet the applications are going up. Yeah, okay, there you go. Yeah, it's working.

Chad (52:50.026)

there they are. there they are. JT?

J.T. O'Donnell (52:55.567)

Yeah, I'm with you. When she gives up the acting thing and goop and her, you know, billion dollar empire, she can go into PR because the way she just pivoted every one of those questions was brilliant. I fell in love with it because you just think about what a really great piece of social media does. First of all, you had to watch it multiple times because you wanted to catch everything. To her being the acts of Chris from Coldplay, immediately catching that vibe. Right. And then in and for the astronomer to say,

Emi B (53:01.858)

Yeah.

Chad (53:17.688)

Yes. Yes.

J.T. O'Donnell (53:24.337)

look, we're not going to take ourselves too seriously. We're a business, something happened. So, you know, why don't we use this as a moment for people to know what we do? Cause honestly, did you know what they did? Did you know what they did as a company? No, but now you're in Apache server and you're like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Right. So they just, was brilliant. It was absolutely fire. And yeah, I think I watched it like six times. I gave it airplay every time it came across my social feeds because it was just really well done. And it doesn't.

Emi B (53:34.062)

No, never even heard of them.

J.T. O'Donnell (53:52.079)

Ends us on a happy note for sure. I went so much faster.

Chad (53:53.886)

Well, there's no question. Nobody knew who the hell Astronomer was a few weeks ago. So definitely to Emmy's point, this is lemons into lemonade. Last week, Joel actually talked about how astronomers getting more applications, candidate applications that he's seeing on LinkedIn versus all of their competitors. Again, didn't see that coming. Gwyneth, yeah.

J.T. O'Donnell (54:14.853)

Yeah. You know, the CEO is suing, right? He's suing for mental, emotional, yeah, no, for emotional damage or not even kidding. It's for like emotional damage and.

Emi B (54:22.134)

please.

Chad (54:24.366)

Yeah, because that's somebody else's fault, Because yeah, okay, take a little responsibility for your own junior. But as you'd said, Gwyneth is Coldplay's frontman, Chris Martin's ex. So that's funny. They did have probably one of the most amicable divorces in Hollywood. She's loved by women all over the globe for goop and vagina-scented candles.

J.T. O'Donnell (54:28.153)

Exactly.

Emi B (54:40.184)

Christmas, yeah.

Chad (54:54.37)

I mean, it's, I don't know. I think this to me was just great. And I loved it from the standpoint of they're obviously getting a lot of people understanding who their brand is and they really don't care. mean, people really don't care about the love that's happening behind closed doors. They just want to find out what was happening with the company new brand. So how do you continue to extend that with something more funny? You embrace it like you'd said, Emmy, and you make

lemons into lemon lemonade and these guys, they did it. They did it.

J.T. O'Donnell (55:26.865)

12 out of

Emi B (55:28.056)

I want to speak to their PR team. Sorry, I was going to say they need a pay rise. Like I'm like, yeah, well done. Well done indeed.

Chad (55:36.226)

Well, in our lemons into lemonade this week is that Joel's not around, so we don't have to suffer through dad jokes. So thanks again, ladies, for coming on. We had a great time and we will see you next time. We out.

J.T. O'Donnell (55:45.446)

and you're.

Emi B (55:52.632)

We out.

J.T. O'Donnell (55:53.529)

Bye.