Careerbuilder Smoke Screen
Dumpster fires produce a lot of smoke, but none produce the amount of smoke that CareerBuilder's dumpster fire produces month-after-month.
This week, the boys discuss:
- 300M reasons to keep hating CareerBuilder
- The Great Rehire?
- Then we pullback the covers on a crappy Glassdoor wannabe
- Target gets it's diversity on
- and give Indeed a little love for its latest initiative.
This episode is going to hit the spot with Taco Bell wine and chocolate-covered Whoppers! Mmm, life is good.
As always, you're favorite podcast is powered by JobAdx, Jobvite, and Sovren.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
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Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Oh yeah. Buckeye football is back and the Browns are on prime time tonight, baby. Life is good. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host Joel "Woody" Cheesman.
And I'm Justin Fields. No shit, I'm Chad Sowash.
On this week's show, Career Builder blows smoke among other things. Coop B ruffles feathers and Burger King isn't pushing the envelope. They're taking a blow torch to it. Grab a Whopper and stay a while everybody.
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Joel (2m 25s):
Big 10 football is back.
Chad (2m 25s):
Yes, baby. It's back!
Joel (2m 27s):
So the pushback is they won't be playing til October and my response is yeah so they're not playing Alaska state and Utah tech like everybody else they'll start with, you know, the Penn State's and the Wisconsins and the Michigan. So I'm pretty happy about it. I don't think they're going to miss a beat.
Chad (2m 50s):
They're not going to get the warm up games, but neither did the NFL in last weekend. We, I mean the NFL looked good! So hopefully these Guys will be fresh. Ready. They won't have to play these little bitty teams and they can just get out there and knock it out of the park.
Joel (3m 6s):
My cat's going insane. Okay. Alright. Shout Outs!
Chad (3m 11s):
Yes! Ed from Philly, baby. He sent me a message. He said, ah, got the first Chad and Cheese text today. Big news out from Jobvites, also, I must have something wrong with me. If I'm getting more Chad and Cheese in a different channel. No Ed, you're not my friend because you can never have enough Chad and Cheese. And that being said, text C C to (833) 799-0321 and get all the goodies!
Joel (3m 43s):
The good vibrations in your pocket everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Ed, needs some mental health apps.
Chad (3m 47s):
He's team Chad.
Joel (3m 49s):
He is team Chad. Shout out to Heath Neville. Heath was a high school classmate of mine who went through a COVID nightmare. Oh, I just wanted to remind people. This shit is real. Heath was basically in quarantine for 46 days. Homie lost 40 pounds in the process and thought he was going to die several times over. So kids, take Heath's story to heart - COVID is a fucked up disease virus.
Joel (4m 22s):
Don't get it. Protect yourself, mask up. I thought it was worth talking about in our Shout Outs.
Chad (4m 25s):
Yes. Mask up people. Steven Rothberg asked me, I'm going to go back to the whole texting conversation. He asked me if he joined and he got the text alerts, what would he get? And Steven, here's a little, here's a little piece, buddy. So here's a text that I actually sent out yesterday. So remember the ultimate Kronos group, the UKG they sent out an email, went out earlier this month, informing clients that UKG would be blocking web scrapers.
Chad (4m 55s):
That didn't last for long kids cause all hell rained down and those spider blocking measures were retracted. Apparently UKG didn't realize clients use scraping services to facilitate job postings and provide compliance. It's amazing how disconnected a core provider as big as UKG is they did not understand that their clients, I mean in massive scale, use this technology.
Chad (5m 29s):
I mean, this is, this is shit. We talked about 15 years ago and it's still not rectified today because we've got idiots at the helm.
Joel (5m 39s):
And speaking of of 15 years ago, Steven pull out your Razor text CC to (833) 799-0321 to get updates just like that one. And I'm going to give a shout out to Cindy Gallop.
Chad (5m 53s):
Joel (5m 53s):
Cindy Gallop part two aired this, this week of our two part series with her. She's a bad ass. She embarrassed me. It's all good. Don't forget to listen to that one, if you haven't already. Cindy Gallop thanks for joining us.
Chad (6m 9s):
So I'd like to also say texts powered by Emissary
Joel (6m 13s):
Chad (6m 15s):
Big SHOUT Out to LaTalle Sherman. She is Head of Experience Design at PageUp. She just found out about the Chad and Ceese podcast and she loves it! And we love you LaTalle so now let's start pushing Chad and Cheese on everyone you know. Just tell them to subscribe wherever they listen. It's pretty easy. And also Alan Title. He's a new listener.
Joel (6m 37s):
Yep. Shout Out to Michael Mann. This was also a text update and a shred. I believe that went out this week. Michael Mann, you might remember from My Payroll, HR, My HR Payroll, whatever that was basically took a hundred million dollars shut down the company and left a lot of people stranded without paychecks. Well, it it's time to pay the Piper Michael Mann and he was arrested. It looks like he's going to spend some time in the pokey.
Chad (7m 6s):
Joel (7m 7s):
It also looks like he's going to have to, to pay back some of the money that companies lost and people lost in this little scam that he had. So Michael have fun, man. I hope you meet some nice friends there in Alcatraz or wherever you're going,
Chad (7m 22s):
My Payroll and my HR Payroll or something like that. I can't remember.
Joel (7m 25s):
One of those three, six sequences of those three words. My payroll, HR, my HR, payroll, HR, my payroll, whatever.
Chad (7m 33s):
So as for Joel Cheesman, Taco Bell has a new house. It's a Jalapeño Noir and it's in Canada. So a tweet from Taco Bell, the luxurious toasted cheesy chalupas about to meet it's bougie best bud Bon Jour Jalapeño Noir are available in Canada for $25 Canadian. That means 25 cents U.S. When you finally get a chance to go back to Christine's Homeland, you can get a Chalupa and you can get some Jalapeño Noir.
Joel (8m 11s):
Yeah. Cause you know, who's borders closed right now? Canada, Yeah, not getting any of that Jalapeño Noir, although shipping could be an issue or an option I'll, I'll get with my inlaws and see if they can ship me some Jalapeño Noir, on the down low. Shout Out to Dan Finnegan, fan of the show, friend of the show, interviewed him a few times, formerly JobVite CEO, Hot Jobs, quite an icon in the industry.
Joel (8m 41s):
He joined Bolster and joined her last week in terms of board of advisors, I believe. And Bolster, you'll remember you called them bullshit I think last week for being Uber for executive. So we, we may need to get somebody from that company on the show to explain what the hell is going on cause if Dan's behind it, they might be aight.
Chad (9m 1s):
Big shoutout to Brendan McComber over at Pandalogic for tagging us, he was looking for an organic bump on LinkedIn this week. And I've heard a bunch of people bitching about being tagged in the socials. And, and personally, I don't know about you, personally, I don't mind as long as it's relevant content. Now, if it's not relevant content, you're going to get smack. But if it's relevant stuff, then I dig it. What about you?
Joel (9m 28s):
I don't mind the tag if it's relevant. I don't love getting alerted every time somebody comments or shares, the alert. So that's probably on me to sort of set my alert system, to not tell me when, you know, somebody comments on that post. But as a rule tagging is fine. I'm sure we do it quite a bit with our show, in terms of who we talk about. And, and who's been, who's been in Shout Outs could probably do that.
Chad (9m 59s):
Of course, shat will people have got, they got to know that they've been on Chad and Cheese. Big Shout Out, we'll be tagging him as well to Doeke Geertsman who is the founder over at We Are Keen in the Netherlands. He's a big fan of the podcast and they just rated us that's right, the Chad and Cheese HR's most dangerous podcast as one of their top five recruitment podcasts. Have I ever said I love lists? I love, I love lamp.
Joel (10m 30s):
Such an easy ranking, such an easy ranking. Shout Out to Ty Weeks, another fan of the show and friend of the show, Intel has a new logo. Will I Am was not a part of the design in terms of how I understand it, but Tyler was very excited about the new logo shared it. And I just wanted to give him a Shout Out cause we love, we love Ty anyway. And if a new logo is why we give them a Shout Out, then what the hell Intel has a new logo!
Chad (10m 57s):
It looks boring as hell Ty.
Joel (11m 1s):
Come on, it's nice and flat and blue
Chad (11m 4s):
Next week, September 22nd at 2:00 PM Eastern. Me and my buddy Jim Strough are going to be debating about diversity quotas and Patrick Nuran from a Biddle Consulting Group will be refereeing. We're going to do opening statements. We're going to have clocked answers. And when there's 10 minutes left, we're going to have a lightning round. So it'll be, it'll be a good time. I'm going to be talking about shit that people want to talk about, but they're not comfortable talking about in the office.
Chad (11m 40s):
Hopefully us having a good time talking about it, but being serious as well, will give you all a chance to actually open up in the office. Be more transparent and have these hard discussions go to circaworks.com/webinars, scroll down to friendly discourse and register today circaworks.com/webinar.
Joel (12m 2s):
Now does this take place in a middle school gym? Because it sounds a lot like seventh grade debate.
Chad (12m 8s):
Dude, I wish I, I wish if it weren't for COVID, Jim and I, that that would be a blast, as a matter of fact, one of these days that should actually be an event held at one of the conferences, that we go to. That's a good idea.
Joel (12m 21s):
Sure. There's gotta be a podium and a cheering cheering section of 12 year olds, if we're going to do it though. A shout out to Pete Jansens and James Carney, we were on their podcast, SAASholes this week, that's SAAS software as a service holes. It was a good time. We went down memory lane and talked a lot of Career Builder, Indeed Monster stuff. Shout Out to you guys that show was fun. And I guess be on the lookout for that in the next couple of weeks.
Chad (12m 50s):
Yeah. And you got called a fucking asshole.
Joel (12m 53s):
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's just Tuesday for me Chad that's just Tuesday.
Chad (12m 59s):
Yeah. And it's usually by me. RecFest One World kids, September 23rd, 24th and 25th. We're going to be on the leadership quote, unquote digital stage, having a no bullshitt conversation about the future of HR tech. We pulled in a couple of a tech CEOs, Angela Hood from this way global. And you might know Aman Brar that guy over at Jobvite had a really good discussion, less than half an hour, jump in, enjoy it.
Joel (13m 35s):
Yup. Yup. And speaking of Rec Fest and good times in London.
BEER DROP PROMO (13m 37s):
We have a new promotion. Chad, are you ready for this? We're giving away free beer. That's right, we're calling it Beer Drop. Yes. Sponsored by Adszona. Adszona We love you're going to love them because they're footing the bill for free beer to be shipped around the country by us, Chad and Cheese. You can get more by visiting Chadcheese.com/free.
BEER DROP PROMO (14m 9s):
That's right. For that and other free shit. We have a bunch of free shit that we want to try to get out to you guys. Cause you're always giving to us, always giving love, listens. Bourbon, beer over the years. We've loved it. And Joel and I thought we should do the same. So if you go to Chadcheese.com/free, go ahead and sign up. You can also sign up there for text alerts as well, because obviously it's good sHIt, Chad and Cheese in your pocket people, but overall Beer Drop.
BEER DROP PROMO (14m 39s):
We're really excited about this. If you love beer or you maybe want to get beer, give it to your wife, give it to your husband, share it with people, do it on Chad and Cheese and Addzona's dime.
Joel (14m 52s):
YeaThank you, Adzona. And I'm going to leave Shout Outs with this Bright Hire got $3 million this week. That was one of the few ones worth mentioning in the venture capital world. They are automation hiring platform. Imagine that automation hiring platform getting funded. It's crazy. I know, but they deserve a Shout Out
Chad (15m 15s):
Those three words, Topics.
Joel (15m 18s):
They just throw in chat bot and AI and they would have gotten 30 million for that idea. But anyway, yeah, let's
Chad (15m 27s):
Yeah. The funny thing is CareerBuilder commits to three year, 300 million TA investment and they don't have any of those fucking words. So here's a quote from the press release: "Global HR technology leader..." I can't, I'm going to laugh myself to death here. "CareerBuilder announced several updates to its talent acquisition suite as a part of a three year, $300 million investment.
Chad (15m 57s):
These updates aim to further support the changing needs of the comp the companies and job seekers in the current state of the..." get ready, "the Great Rehire and the long term future of hiring by focusing on talent acquisition, a $35 billion market that is growing at 11%."
Joel (16m 18s):
It's good to know that their PR company is still working. I wonder how, how long it took them to come up with the "Great Rehire?" Cause that's damned impressive. My favorite commentary from the PR was quote, "We're the only HR tech company with the candidates and the technology to create a connected experience for job seekers and employers." Really the only HR tech company, the only HR, come on now, this was a quote from newly minted, Chief Product Officer Leigh-Margaret Stull.
Joel (16m 53s):
I don't know much about her, but she's been around for 10 years. So she's got to know a thing or two about a thing or two, at CareerBuilder. Right?
Chad (17m 0s):
She's got another title too. It's called Chief Yes Woman, so she'll say yes to whatever the fuck arena says. So here, here are some of the bullets real quick and then after we get through the bullets, then we'll talk about these things. Number one, this is what CareerBuilder's going to do with this money. "Our redesigned job search app for the iPhone and Android, authentication enhancements, enhanced privacy settings, new interface with faster speeds, further integration between CareerBuilder's talent discovery platform, easier posting for remote jobs, a two way SMS function.
Chad (17m 37s):
Guys, Holy shit. How do you not already have this? Chad and Cheese already has a two way SMS function? Are you fucking kidding me?
Joel (17m 46s):
Yeah. If they would have had like enhancement for Pokemon Go for Jobs, maybe a TikTok for Jobs, or maybe like Snap Recruiting. I would have been impressed, but yeah, everything on there could have been from a press release from 2012.
Chad (18m 3s):
This is legit, ridiculous smoke. So what I did was I actually, I texted a few friends and here's some of the texts that I received back. So in the first one, here we go. I quote, "it's polishing a turd. These quote/unquote innovations are normal product maintenance that should happen in normal daily product management, nothing innovative as I can tell, no PPC, no AI." Then another one that's 300 million lists cost for their existing labor product.
Chad (18m 39s):
Tech costs compound that for three years, right? I mean, that's what the 300 millions, for. Second, most of those bulleted mentions are table stakes experiences for job sites all over the world. And they've been in development at CareerBuilder for three to five years are ready.
Joel (18m 59s):
Yeah, now we should give the other side here of the social media spectrum. So we have, we have Josh Akers, personal friend to both of us, and friend of this show and former CareerBuilder Broadbean employee. He shared the, the announcement and said, quote, "I really like this. Don't underestimate CBs ability to innovate. They have the people, the resources and the access to capital to make some interesting moves." So let's at least shine a light on the opposing view. Although I would say they let all their people go.
Joel (19m 31s):
So I'm not sure who the people are after that. I got nothing.
Chad (19m 38s):
So, Josh is a famous Brown nose, our number one. Okay. Love him to death. He talks good about everybody until he's had too many bourbons, but still I appreciate that. Right? Getting out there, trying to get that, that old college try, love it. But face it, CareerBuilder has been on the sales block for years now and they cannot sell that motherfucker. So they're going to polish that turnoff, and they're going to try to meet the market's table stakes in the hopes they can make enough noise to hook a buyer, that can sucker somebody in.
Chad (20m 13s):
Not to mention, they're also going to try their damnedest with the "Great Rehire" to pull the wool over many employers eyes to try to get them to spend more money on this polished turd.`
Joel (20m 27s):
But the good news is Josh won't get a legal letter for saying something bad about CareerBuilder. So maybe he was just being nice to keep the legal, legal Hawks out of his mailbox?
Chad (20m 40s):
CareerBuilder, just so that you know, Josh, wasn't the source in the first place, assholes.
Joel (20m 48s):
But keep guessing CareerBuilder, cause we like the fact that you are anxiously trying to find out who our sources are. Speaking of bad companies, let's pivot to Cootbie, I guess I'm saying that correctly.
Joel (23m 16s):
They got a little bit outed of this week. Didn't they?
Chad (21m 4s):
So Cootbie, Cootbie is a platform that is focused on calling out sucky candidate experience, but it looks like they perspectively could be risking libel in the process. So I first noticed that a Will Staney over at Proactive Talent was going to war with these guys on Twitter, calling them out for naming recruiters and stealing one and two star reviews from Glass Door to try to drive negative brand sentiment.
Chad (21m 38s):
So I started doing some digging here and there and I found this dude, Ernie who's on the site. And he seems to lead the team here in the US and I had a discussion with him and I said, dude, No clue. I mean, I'm not really sure that they know exactly what's going on, but I asked him what's the mission? He said the mission really and I'm paraphrasing ~ is to shine a light on bad candidate experience in the hopes of change. ~ The only problem with that is a recruiter was actually named in a bad review.
Chad (22m 11s):
And the person who posted the review had never gone through any type of hiring process at all. She just didn't like Just a hatchet job. Yeah. What this person in the company was posting on socials. So she went and did a bad review on the site and it was still up while I was talking to Ernie. So he defended this review. And then I asked again what the mission was because this anonymous individual didn't go through the candidate experience.
Chad (22m 44s):
And was the story validated? Is there anything that could corroborate with any of this? So there are all these different pieces that aren't lining up. And I said, okay, so what are your rules behind this? He said, well, we really don't have any rules. How are you policing this? Well, it's really hard to police, all we do is have interns and they seem to be turning over left and right. Overall, Ernie wants to come on the show, we might bring him on, but at this point just, it sounds like a mess.
Joel (23m 16s):
Well, the good news for Cootbie is people are actually going to the site. That is one hurdle that startups want to clear. These sort of anonymous free for all wild, wild West, you know, kind of sites, forums. You know, they've been around for a long time and this is the way they go. Like they become a cesspool for stupidity. I remember five, seven years ago, there was an app called peeople with two ee's and it was supposed to be Yelp for people where you could sort of talk shit about people and give them five stars or one.
Joel (23m 49s):
And that shit flamed out, like, you know, a bad dream. And these sites pop up continuously, I mean, it's no surprise, they need content. So they're going to go where the content is. Certainly glass door is not going to be happy about it, whether or not they do anything. I don't know, but you know, this thing's going to flame out. It's a dumb name. Like nothing. It's just stupid dude. Like it's, I mean, they're going to put jobs in there, like Indeed, indeed a backfill or something. I mean, it's not a legitimate thing. I'd be surprised if Ernie is over the age of 23, it has any experience whatsoever.
Joel (24m 23s):
This sounds like a weekend like dorm room idea that someone threw up on a weekend and I don't expect that we'll ever talk about Cootbie again. However, I will shine a light on a real potential threat to Glass Door and Indeed in some of the other review sites. Blind has been around for quite a while. Now for the most part Blind has been sort of a random conversation of people at companies about anything from working there to financial stuff, to the CEO's sleeping with the interns, whatever.
Joel (25m 3s):
And they've sort of quietly launched in the last few months, a review section for employees, basically Glassdoor Indeed style reviews, and they're getting some significant traction. So if you're really interested in this space, I'd pass up Cootbie and I'd go to teamblind.com and see what's going on there because there's a lot more fire over at blind than there is at Cootbie
Chad (25m 30s):
Yeah. And I think the, the big key here is that, you know, you're not focusing on a specific person or a recruiter, right? Who's already overloaded with too many reqs as it is, especially in today's environment, but the experience that you're having with the actual brand itself. There are already sites that are out there that, that support these types of things, not to mention social media. I mean, you can go out there and you can @ any company that you want.
Chad (26m 3s):
In this case, it just seems like, you know, they're looking for all of the things that are happening on the web from a candidate experience standpoint that sucks and they're trying to aggregate all of that. And that's just a ball of hate that we really don't need right now.
Joel (26m 18s):
Yeah. Scraping up the one and two reviews to sort of build some animosity or like scandal. And this is all bad stuff and fire, like, that's an interesting strategy, but yeah. It's but by the time we would book Ernie on the show Cootbie would probably be gone. So I wouldn't worry about getting that on the schedule, but if you're out there looking for new awesome services, particularly resume parsing, I would put Sovren on your list. Let's hear from them.
Joel (26m 48s):
And we'll be right back to talk about Indeed.
Sovren (26m 51s):
Sovren parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry, the more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting sovren.com, that's SOVREN.com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human sovereign software. So human you'll want to take it to dinner
Joel (27m 18s):
Just when I think they should change their ad And I'm like, eh, it's pretty damn good. Alright, Indeed, they're getting on the, the PR, PR train of like helping out the world in this time of endemic crisis. Yeah. Launching the Virtual Hiring Tour. That sounds exciting. This will consist of a series of virtual Indeed hiring events, which use Indeed's proprietary video interviewing technology to remove technical hurdles and speed up the interviewing timeline by delegating the administrative tasks to Indeed, employers can focus on interviews, reducing the time to hire for an average of six weeks to a matter of days, or even on the spot job offers.
Joel (28m 0s):
Job seekers need only a browser and an internet connection to interview for jobs which range from his central frontline worker roles to specialize positions. Chad, this sounds exciting.
Chad (28m 12s):
I'm all behind it. Man. They've partnered with Goodwill, who is a major nonprofit organization across the United States. Goodwill will work closely within their communities to ensure that job seekers are aware and prepared of these virtual hiring tours, one-on-one coaching, virtual workshops. I mean, Goodwill is now a candidate acquisition engine for Indeed.
Chad (28m 43s):
While ZipRecruiter focuses on getting into the enterprise sector, Indeed is running fishermen commercials on fucking TV and partnering with Goodwill.
Joel (28m 53s):
Yes. Yes. Job seekers can go to Indeed and search quote, Indeed Hiring Events, they can find available positions, RSVP to attend the event. 700 companies have signed up for the tour so far, at least 20 positions available per company.
Chad (29m 14s):
Joel (29m 14s):
So yeah, if you're looking for a job now, this also gives them a nice opportunity to go spread the Goodwill and get some good PR in those local markets, do some advertising, get some Goodwill there and it gets some traction for these companies. But yeah, the whole, the whole virtual hiring job fair thing certainly has legs. We're hearing a lot of companies talk about it. And this is just another example of utilizing to get people, in quotes "face to face"
Joel (29m 44s):
and get them hired.
Chad (29m 46s):
Well we did a Firing Squad. I think it was two Firing Squads, go with Recruit Virtual. Yup. And I think that's, that's a reason why I think those types of companies have legs because they're built for white labeling with APIs and that kind of thing. And obviously it's big, we're hearing, you know, the recruit Ptolemies of the world, the Azores of the world, a Paradox. I mean, just about every company, indeed. They're looking at this new methodology while we're here in COVID right.
Chad (30m 19s):
And I'm not thinking that this is going to change when we flip over either.
Joel (30m 23s):
Yeah, I agree. I don't think we're going back to, you know, the lines around the corner, the two recruiters per table, 10 by 10 table lugging a booth across town, spending a whole day, talking to a lot of people who aren't qualified for a position, QR code, little tri-stand on the table. Like I think I there'll be room for that particularly on college campuses, I guess, people will still go to, you know, MIT face-to-face events and things like that. But for the general populace, I think the job fair days are numbered.
Joel (30m 57s):
Chad (30m 58s):
Joel (31m 0s):
Let's talk about your sweet spot Target and Instagram are getting into the equality.
Chad (31m 7s):
Target. Yeah, it's interesting. Because two years ago, Target agreed to pay like a pittance for them, 3.7 4 million to settle, settle a class action lawsuit that accused them of discriminating against black and Latino job applicants with it's approach to criminal background checks. A few years earlier, Target had to pay 3 million to settle a similar claim with the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and what it looks like is they're starting to hoping they're starting to get the message.
Chad (31m 45s):
This isn't just about the pittance suit they're getting smacked with the 3.7 million and the 3 million from years past. This is what it does to their brand. And I think companies are starting to understand that mainly because it is tremendously important that brands look like the community they serve. We've talked about this in policing, but this is important for all companies to be able to look like, feel like, be like the community that they actually serve.
Chad (32m 19s):
So, you know, whether this was because of the smack of litigation or because it was the right thing to do, I don't give a fuck just as long as they start doing it. And they've pledged to increase representation of black employees and its workforce by 20% over the next three years.
Joel (32m 37s):
That's significant that's significant. Yeah. I think, you know, Target being headquartered in Minneapolis and being the home of George Floyd, which sort of sparked this whole fire of justice across the land, it was incumbent upon them. I think, to do something symbolically more than most other companies, hopefully best buy also headquartered in Minneapolis and others will follow suit, but Target, although lawsuits have come down the pike, I mean, they've done some good things in terms of equality and diversity in their stores as quoted in the story that we shared today or shared this week more than half of its stores are run by women and a third are managed by people of color.