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Firing Squad: Visage's Joss Leufrancois

Is the future of recruiting entirely automated? Is it more of the same? Some think it's a hybrid. That's why we invited Joss Leufrancois, CEO of Visage, to come on Firing Squad and tell us about their solution which helps combine the best of both worlds. But is A.I. and traditional sourcing a match made in heaven or are they on a collision course to the depths of hell? Ooooh, dramatic.

Gotta listen to find out.



FiringSquad INTRO (0s):

Like Shark Tank? Then you'll love Firing Squad! CHAD SOWASH & JOEL CHEESEMAN are here to put the recruiting industry's bravest, ballsiest, and baddest startups through the gauntlet to see if they got what it takes to make it out alive? Dig a fox hole and duck for cover kids the Chad and Cheese Podcast is taking it to a whole other level.

Joel (22s):

Oh yeah. What's up everybody. You know, what's up! It's Firing Squad time. This is your favorite guilty pleasure, the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host Joel Cheeseman joined is always the Starsky to my Hutch, Chad Sowash and today we welcome Visage's co-founder and CEO, Joss Leufrancois with us on the show. Joss, welcome to Firing Squad.

Joss (46s):

Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. It's a childhood dream of mine to be on that show.

Joel (53s):

Aww. Stop it.

Chad (59s):


Joss (59s):

It's my Oprah moment.

Joel (59s):

He's already buttering us up for the show.

Chad (1m 0s):

He said, childhood, they just fucking call this old. That's not buttering shit up.

Joss (1m 7s):

I'm Joss Leufrancois

Joel (1m 8s):

A childhood dream of mine.

Chad (1m 9s):

What an asshole thing to say right out of the gate. He must be French.

Joel (1m 15s):

All right, Joss, for those of our listeners that don't know you, which is probably all of them. Give us a little Twitter bio about you. What makes Joss tick?

Joss (1m 24s):

Huh? So, well, I'm Joss Leufrancois. I live near Austin, Texas on a ranch with my wife and four, four year old boy and all sorts of farm animals. As you can probably guess from the accent. I'm not from Austin originally. I'm actually from Houston, west Texas.

Joel (1m 49s):

No shit. He's from Waco.

Joss (1m 51s):

Waco, Texas. Yeah. Very cool. French must say the south of France, but I've been away from France for the past 17 years spent six years in London. This is where I learned recruiting. Then six years in Dubai and the past five in the U S originally in California. And then I don't like invading the great state of Texas. So I recruitments that's selling to it's right at a university. A friend of mine called me to start a recruitment business. He said that was very easy to just call around companies and ask if they need people and make money. That wasn't so easy.

Joel (2m 25s):

We'll get into more of that in the show. We want to just find out who you are as a person.

Chad (2m 30s):

It's using the accent is what he was doing. Yeah.

Joel (2m 32s):

Yeah. But Chad, tell him what he's won today.

Chad (2m 35s):

Well Joss. You will have two minutes to pitch Visage. At the end of two minutes, you could hear that bell and Joel and I will hit you with rapid fire Q and A. If your answers are droning on, you're going to get hit with the crickets, or if you sound too French, we'll probably hit you with the crickets as well. At the end of Q and A, you will get one of these ratings. First, the big applause, you will be crowd surfing your way to success. Golf clap. We're not really seeing a crowd, which means you need to make more noise or the surf isn't coming up and last but never least - Firing bullets sounds - the crowd can also turn into a mob.

Chad (3m 15s):

If your plan isn't tight. And in this case, you should be afraid of the pitchforks and torches because this ain't working kids. That's firing squad. Are you ready Joss?

Joss (3m 26s):

I think I am.

Joel (3m 28s):

Ready for a revolution two minutes starting now.

Joss (3m 34s):

So this actually helps large employers and RPOs find and engage passive talent. So as you know, hiring has never been harder. In March there was in the US 11.5 million job openings and only 6.5 million hires in that same period. So that's a 4 million Delta pre pandemic. The Delta was only 1 million. So the consequence of this is an imbalance in, and the only way you can win in this competitive market is to go after passive candidates. And it doesn't matter if you are Google or <inaudible> Albus or Amazon, you need to go and find these candidates.

Joss (4m 14s):

So the old way of going about it was to hire a bunch of sourcers or ask or ID overstretch recruiters to be proactive and source them on <inaudible> was a <inaudible> sourcing platforms. The new way Vissage, you automatically push from UHS, the jobs that don't have enough qualified candidates to Visage for overnight sourcing, we get your list of great matches. You reach out to them with a personalized drip campaigns with one click. So now let me tell you about the secret sauce. Unlike a lot of our competitors out there in the sourcing space, we don't trust our go items can do an accurate and unbias job <inaudible>.

Joss (5m 1s):

So that's why, what we do is we blend the sources. Yeah. That's humans to searching candidates and AI. So the way this works is that autumn <inaudible> or curated community of freelancers, we did notify conduit profiles or on over 40 different sources. And then we ensure the quality of submissions and this human in the loop methodology help us improve the accuracy versus pure AI models for assurance all users approved and contacts 70% of the time, the candidates that we provide to them.

Joel (5m 41s):

All right, Joss, your time is up to pitch your company.

Joss (5m 44s):

Thank you!

Joel (5m 45s):

Let's get into it. Shall we either I'm a dumb American or I'm just dumb. The first time we talked about your company on the show, I said, Visage, instead of Visage, I had to look it up. Webster's defines Visage, see, I did it again, a person's face with reference to the form or proportions of the features also a person's facial expression. So what's up with the name? Why'd you pick something so hard for us Americans to pronounce and also why the .jobs, the TLD is a little bit unique and also typically means it's a place to find jobs. So walk me through the name of the company.

Joss (6m 26s):

Oh man, I won <inaudible> 100 bucks. I bet with my team that would be the very first question you asked Joel.

Joel (6m 34s):

So you are prepared.

Joss (6m 35s):

The name and the good job. Yeah. Visage means the face. We are the new face of recruiting. The way the name came about. I was playing with names with a friend of mine and the brands are like Visa was one of them and Visage came and yeah, the new face of recruiting, the .jobs.

Joel (6m 56s):

Yeah the

Joss (6m 57s):

I actually didn't know where the .jobs came from until you speak and I think on one of the shows and honestly, that's, we could, you know, we tried to buy the They wanted way too much money for it. We prefer to focus on the product and, you know, kind of a points of keeping the and show that we can be a very important company, having a silly That's usually, <inaudible> so there's no good justification, but that's mine.

Joel (7m 26s):

All right, we'll go with it. We'll go with it. So you were founded in 2016 and you've received roughly $11 million in Series A funding. Where's the money gone in terms of the investment? What are yous spending money on?

Joss (7m 41s):

Yeah, mostly on product. And I would say, you know, direct go to market as opposed to, to marketing for. So for a little story, that's my second company, the first one was a multiracial recruitment agency RPO type I sold back in 2015. And that gave me quite a bit of, you know, cash to start Visage. That's why we didn't have to raise that much money all these years to get where we are today. And so products go to market. That's what we spend the money on.

Chad (8m 14s):

Okay, Joss. So you said in the pitch when clients don't have enough candidates, so how long do you wait to engage, to find candidates for them? So, do you allow them to go do their job posting and then it falls flat. So then you engage your sourcers. How does the process actually work for your current clients?

Joss (8m 35s):

Yeah. So there are two ways, one way is you can go on your ATS and pick Visage as like you would pick LinkedIn when you advertise, you want to advertise on LinkedIn. So that's one way, that's the manual action. So it's the recruiter deciding whether they want to get and sourcing or not yours way. And it's, you know, the better way with some very large employers that are <inaudible> with, we've got what we call automated triggering. So it means that if within 20 days, as an example, you don't have five qualified candidates on your job. The job is automatically pushed to us for supplemental sourcing.

Chad (9m 14s):

So you have thresholds that are actually set up so that when the organization either goes internal or they go external or whatever they do, as you see through your integrations, that they don't have enough, then it automatically triggers. And then you get to work at that point. Correct?

Joss (9m 30s):

Exactly. That's to really elevate the mental load and make sure that you don't ever have a job that doesn't have qualified candidates against.

Chad (9m 40s):

Okay. So this is outbound. Do you also take a look at the applicant tracking system candidate database, or any of the candidate databases that have been built by the organization since for the most part they're generally not using them.

Joss (9m 53s):

Yeah, not, we will fresh. We go. What we believe is that, you know, candidate data needs to be fresh. And especially in the past year, as you know, a lot of people have changed jobs. And so you need to go to the primary source, wherever I, you know, LinkedIn existing in Germany are also our social network and job boards. And so we all know that in the database business, we're all about getting you the freshest data and matching candidates against your jobs.

Chad (10m 25s):

Okay. Well, crowd sourcing and AI and machine learning seems somewhat redundant. So help me understand using sourcing and AI and ML, because again, those both are used to help scale. One is a human way to scale. The other one is not, as a robotic way to scale. Why do you need both? Talk to me about that?

Joss (10m 44s):

Well, it's right for the longest time to go, AI only, you know, match candidates with algorithms to jobs, and we just couldn't find the right accuracy. So it means that, you know, if you use any sourcing platform out there, even the really sophisticated ones at most you'll agree with the algorithm 10 to 15% of the time. But when you have a human in the loop, especially a specialized sourcer, someone, for instance, who only does a Java developer role, well, you probably agree with them and that's what's happening on our platform 70% of the time. So first is like accuracy. And the fact that you got someone doing the sourcing that you can trust and communicate with.

Joss (11m 28s):

And the second thing is like, to have more diversity in your candidates slate. You know, if you use our guidance, you always surveys the same candidates, the ones that said the obvious things on their resume, the ones that, come on top, and that creates a lot of issues. It means that it's always the same is being surfaced at the top. The lack of diversity, as you know, people from minorities and different backgrounds tend not to write their resume in a way that's just going to be picked up by, <inaudible> go items. And finally, you know, there are new laws out there, for instance, the antivirus law that's coming up in New York, whereby they are going to ask you audit it and see there is no biases in your algorithms.

Joss (12m 13s):

And our meta is different. We asked real people, five to 12 sales<inaudible> on each job. They all think we've dealt different brains themselves from diverse background. And as a result, you know, a very large, you know, tech companies, I won't name here, but they thought they are the best sourcing technology about <inaudible> saga items to surface candidates. And as it, you will not be able to help them with net new candidates, but as it happens, 47% of the candidates they received from us, they've never seen before. And that's because of that technology, that's human focus that brings all the diversity and <inaudible> in the laid down.

Joss (12m 55s):

and industry data?

Chad (12m 56s):

Well, it sounds like you started trying AI first and the AI wasn't trained or tweaked enough. Now it sounds like you're using human sourcers to actually train the AI to get it ready so that you can start to scale with machines and less humans. Tell me, talk to me about that.

Joss (13m 12s):

So what we think is that we, there will always be a human component and we need to see where the human adds the most value. So the way we've engineered that we kind of reverse. So the humans are submitting resumes, the algorithms that are being trained and that's helps us refine to a disqualified, the obvious the kinds of style, not obviously not a match. Is are we going to get rid of the sourcer at some point, I doubt. I think there will always be in some capacities on jobs, the need for human intervention and that's to, you know, bring more diversity in the pipeline that's to navigate with the nuance that, you know, a job description is written by a human, a resume written by a human.

Joss (13m 56s):

There's a lot of ambiguity, reading between the lines and that's what the humans are great at. So we, you know, our vision is that we always have a human in the loop and that's what differentiates. And that's why customers come to us, when they want something different.

Chad (14m 13s):

You're saying there's a chance.

Joel (14m 14s):

There's a chance. Talk about these sourcers. Are these full-time employees, are they contractors? If they are contractors, how are they compensated? Do you have a special training for them? Or you just sort of let them go with what they've learned on their own.

Joss (14m 30s):

Great question. So all sourcers, anybody can be a sourcer, you could sign up on our website and do a technical test, and then we're going to test you on real jobs. It means that you are going to be able to submit a limited number of candidates among all their sources on a limited number of jobs. And as you prove that your candidates are a match, then you get the opportunity to work on more jobs. And this is the way you're compensated is that every time you submit a candidate that goes through or mismatch, I go with them, then you get a bounty to nominal amount.

Joss (15m 14s):

It doesn't matter if the candidate gets contacted by the clients or hired or anything, it's immediately quantification. So people are gig workers. They work all over the world. There is no correlation between where a sourcer is based, and that will be to find the right candidates. That's what matters is our domain expertise. So you submit great candidates on a, I don't know, a marketing manager in Singapore one day, we're going to call you again for a similar role in San Francisco the next and immediate gratification. You get paid the next week, the week after.

Joel (15m 50s):

So you say you get, you get paid a nominal fee just to find candidates. Can you define nominal? I mean, I assume it's enough to keep them doing it, but is it based on the job? Is it based on? What's it based on?

Joss (16m 5s):

Yeah. So when the job is posted, we pass the job and with <inaudible> the difficulty, and that's going to define how much you get paid by submission. A very active sourcer on our platform will make $500 bucks a week and it's predictable. They can work in their own time. We've got a lot of moms that are going back to work. A lot of our sourcers are based overseas and it's something we're very proud of. We bring the economic opportunity to these people do not necessarily have access to them.

Joel (16m 37s):

So you don't care how they find the people. You don't give them access to a huge database. Like you're on your own to find, who you find essentially.

Joss (16m 49s):

Exactly. You got to come. You know, you need to <inaudible> resources to train yourself as a sourcer, but we expect that you are going to bring your own assets, your LinkedIn recruiter license, and so on.

Joel (16m 59s):

And could one job like, could that set off a bunch of recruiters? Do you limit the number of recruiters that can take a certain job? How does that work?

Joss (17m 9s):

On average, you know, between 5 and 12 sourcers are going to touch the job. But so you claim the job. You've got 30 minutes to start submitting resumes. And if you don't, then it's released that's what clients love about it. They usually post the jobs on, you know, if it's manually triggered how they're going to post the job on Friday. So on Monday, when they come back to work, they can see a perfect shortlist of candidates across all their jobs.

Joel (17m 33s):

Gotcha. So you have quite a bit of competition, and I assume that you're gonna get more and more. We've talked about Robot Show Humanly, Eightfold, Recruitee. There are a lot out there. How do you explain yourself to potential customers in terms of the difference between what you guys do and what so many competitors do?

Joss (17m 54s):

So we focused on the problem that they want to solve. The problem is that they want to activate the passive candidate at Chanel <inaudible>. I either don't have enough qualified candidates applying for some jobs, and they don't, you know, that their recruiters are too busy. They carry too many wrecks and they don't have a sourcing team. Then they come and talk to us. If they're looking for a pure technology play, then you've got, you know, all the companies you mentioned, and our friends at Hire Easy and SeekOut. Our stack, <inaudible> the same, you know, analogy. When you buy a sourcing tool, like Hire Easy, or Seek Out, you're buying like a Tesla, it's a great car, it's got a lot of features and you can go very fast and so on.

Joss (18m 45s):

But when you hire a Visage, it's like the Tesla with the, you know, the autopilots, because it's like having a sourcing team at your fingertips. And so it's like <inaudible> intersection of tech and salaries, and it's particularly important in today's world where they are just not enough recruiters in the world right now to help these companies actuate <inaudible> their growth plan.

Chad (19m 10s):

Okay. So who is your target customer and talked about? RPOs talked about big organizations, is that really you're looking at high value targets and that's really your focus right now.

Joss (19m 23s):

Yeah. 5,000 plus employees minimum with a strong bias towards the very, the largest one, fortune 500 multinationals. If you know, are a fortune 100, you know, very likely you are using directly your product or one of your RPOs is using product. RPOs Why? Because the focus on, you know, the entire end to end process, they want to deal with seasonality <inaudible> job sourcing and not have an army of sourcers around the world to help them deliver on their inventory. So those two segments, large RPOs, large enterprise.

Chad (20m 1s):

Okay. So between those two, where's your main priority? Is it the RPO or is it major enterprise?

Joss (20m 9s):

Like right now, 50/50, 50% of all revenue exactly, comes from enterprise, 50% from RPO and it's all marketing and go to market. A team is reflecting that, that's a bit.

Chad (20m 21s):

Okay. Well, since you brought it up, what are those revenues look like? What's your ARR, your MRR? What's that look like?

Joss (20m 28s):

Yeah. So, we sell subscriptions. So it means that clients, depending on the volume of jobs that they require sourcing will purchase a package for the year and in terms of where we are at, revenue where in the high teens million dollar <inaudible> ER.

Chad (20m 49s):

Gotcha. Okay. So let's talk about how you're actually penetrating systems. Are you working with through partnership models or is this all direct? Do you have a kind of like a multi-pronged way of going after the market or is it just direct?

Joss (21m 3s):

Yeah, I know we only have pretty much one channel. So direct means that we have a demand generation team, the south team, while going to network and engage their way to discuss with these buyers at RPOs and enterprise. You know, if you look at our clients while the mouth is one field <inaudible>Raphael's and there was a failed in sales, self generated, and also failed, <inaudible> we do play extensively the card of integration, because we really believe that we should, you know, we don't want to recreate an ATS, a CRM. We just want to play with those guys and build beautiful integration, so to help our clients.

Joss (21m 48s):

So that's all, that's all strategy.

Chad (21m 51s):

So again, talk about revenues. Now let's talk about pricing. If I'm a big organization software as a service. Okay, great. How is this priced out? Is it per seat? Per job? Eh, obviously it's not per seat, or maybe it is because you're working with recruiters who are being super powered by your sourcer. So, so tell me about that.

Joss (22m 13s):

Yeah. So essentially we look at what LinkedIn does and we go the opposite direction. That's kind of generally what we do. Product wise, pricing wise, go to market wise. And so what buyers are fed up with, with LinkedIn is the fact that they're buying seats and that's not the job to be done is not to buy a seat for the job to be done is to field jobs as quickly and as cheaply as possible. So the way we price things is based on the number of jobs that we believe will require sourcing. So we look at the, the job mix in the organization and focus on those professional and technical roles and suggest subscription amount for the organization.

Joss (22m 53s):

We may start, you know, fairly small. So we need, you know, you can give access to all your team members and hiring managers because it helps to have the email comes from their hiring manager and stuffs <inaudible> you the recruiter. And it starts, you know, around $50,000, you know, as you start with us and you involve the shift team members and our largest client today spend $2.4 million a year with us.

Joel (23m 20s):

A lot of really smart people are predicting a recession. We know in our business that when recessions happen, some companies win, some companies lose, how are you guys preparing yourselves for the potential recession that's around the corner? And do you think it's essentially a good thing for you going forward?

Joss (23m 41s):

Yeah. Good question first. Yeah, that's my, I've had two downturns in my career and I always find those moments very interesting. And especially when you are very lean, like we are, we didn't raise a lot of capital, we are aiming for stability next year. And we are just focus on, you know, delivering value and making money and being very lean. We know that it's going to impact us. There is no doubt about it, and we need to be very focused on these areas, pockets of growth, you know, sectors, geography, the beauty of these areas, 70% of revenue comes from the US and the rest from the rest of the world.

Joss (24m 26s):

While ripple center for business comes from either RPOs with them to be a failure resilience during downtowns and entreprise who will have less knee-jerk reaction in comparison to SMBs. And, and finally, you know, 60% of the jobs are posted on Visage are IT software related, and there is such a need. And even in the past two recessions that didn't disappear overnight. Like we still need those software engineers, no matter what.

Joel (24m 58s):

Your site talks about your product overcoming bias, and that you have certified diversity sourcers, what exactly is a certified diversity sourcer?

Chad (25m 11s):

And who certifies them?

Joel (25m 13s):


Joss (25m 13s):

Yeah. So we, yeah. Thanks for asking. So we've got a varsity <inaudible> sourcing academy that has been set up by NG <inaudible> that you might, you might know, she's one of the well-known leader in sourcing and diversity. And so she's essentially built a training program and a certification to help all sourcers who are interested in participating to understand how they can find a more diverse slate for the jobs that we have open on our platform. And that's something that's, they know that's something that's really desired by our clients. And we gave them the tools, the tricks, to be very good at it and then they can put it on their resume and, you know, use their experience elsewhere if they desire.

Joel (26m 0s):

You guys do that sounds like that the team is really interesting. Talk about the makeup of the team. It sounds like your Salesforce is contracted or outsourced and you have people certifying. What's the team look like, and how big is it?

Joss (26m 15s):

Yeah, so we've got about 80 people working at Visage. We are fully remote. We <inaudible> we used to have an office in San Francisco, but then we run out of money. So I went back to my mom and so everybody went home, but then that was just like the way we designed it. So we all <inaudible> hire the best people out there. It doesn't matter where they are. And that makes us have probably 20 people in the US now, the rest, all over the world, very diverse. 70% of my leadership team is from diverse background. So yes, I'm a white guy, but I'm surrounded by very strong international diverse people will bring that dimension to the company.

Joss (27m 3s):

So, yeah. All sorts of nationalities. I think we've got 27 nationalities on my staff now.

Chad (27m 6s):

Awesome. Awesome. So the first time I even heard of the Visage, as I think Joel spoke about earlier was when you got funding, so from a marketing standpoint, this is a very loud, very noisy market. How in the hell are you guys going to cut through this clutter?

Joel (27m 27s):

It's the French accent cuts through every time.

Joss (27m 29s):

Yeah. Well, no, that only took me so far. At some point you've got to, you know, it's not a repeatable and scalable model. Then one thing that we, over the years, we've really focused on the product and that's why most of our clients came from <inaudible> and so on and neglected marketing. Why? Because, you know, like funding wise, I don't come from a VC background. So we played the game. We raised a few millions, by the way, when is the episode going out? Probably in a few weeks and those are announcements are coming very soon.

Chad (28m 13s):

Announcement hit, it, hit it

Joel (28m 15s):

We'll time it just right.

Chad (28m 17s):

At least two-three months.

Joss (28m 18s):

So yeah, we've raised $8 million total.

Chad (28m 22s):


Joss (28m 23s):

And that's a fairly small rounds.

Joel (28m 25s):


Joss (28m 26s):

You know, where we are

Chad (28m 29s):

Back to my question, yes.

Joss (28m 31s):

The question. So how do we cut through the clutter? I think they like being really targeted on these very large accounts. We are the only ones that have the info security, GDPR, all the things that allow you to <inaudible> these larger companies and, you know, being very intentional about content marketing for leadership events cause, no, we don't have $15 million dollars to spend. Our marketing budget for this year is probably a couple of millions, and we'll do just great events, giving back value to the community.

Joel (29m 7s):

And like we say, on the show, you don't fail because you have not enough money. You fail because you have too much money. All right. That's the bell Joss! Are you ready to face the firing squad? Don't get too excited. I'm going to go ahead and take it first. Chad.

Chad (29m 24s):


Joel (29m 25s):

Let's, let's tick off the boxes here. You've got experience in the industry. You've raised a good amount of money, but not too much. You've made it to the five year or almost six year period of the business. So you've shown a success. You're in the teens of millions, I think you said in terms of revenue per year.

Joss (29m 44s):


Joel (29m 44s):

These are some great milestones to make as a company. So as you look to what you guys do, I think, I think you augment recruiting. I think that you aren't looking to replace recruiters. In fact, I think you're giving them an opportunity where a lot of people are giving up on sourcing and sourcers. You guys are giving them an opportunity. I think the AI, how their sources are training, the AI is a little bit gray box to me. I'm not sure how that's going to play out. I think you're going to continue to be sort of a human heavy business, but it doesn't sound like you're on the hook for a lot of money to have these folks on staff. You're only paying them if there's actually jobs there and they actually do work. The diversity play, I think is interesting.

Joel (30m 25s):

I think, you know, certifying or have some sort of training on your own that makes you a diversity play is legitimate. You're not just putting diversity on your site. I do think that as the recession comes, you're going to be okay. Like you said, you haven't raised a ton of money. You can pivot to industries that are still needing people. We talk about healthcare, you know, service trucking, et cetera. You're always going to have something there. I think that that will have a need. And technology also will probably be there as well. Pricing wise, we didn't get too deep into that, but I think it sounds like you have a competitive product, even though you have a lot of competition. I think you have a pretty nice little corner in our industry.

Joel (31m 5s):

So for me, Visage, I do hate the name though, that's the only box, you know, checkoff, but I'm willing to overlook it for everything else that you do, right? Joss, you get a big applause. Fromage <inaudible>

Chad (31m 22s):

Fromage <inaudible>

Joss (31m 23s):


Joel (31m 23s):

Get them, Chad.

Chad (31m 24s):

My attorney and kids. Okay. So first and foremost, Joss, when I go to a website and it says pricing and plans, and you send me to a lead page that pisses me off right out of the gate. Number two, when there is marketing, you've got these great videos that are like an hour or 20 minutes long. Nobody's going to sit through that shit, cut that up, use it as snackable pieces, man, you have tens of hundreds of perspective videos and marketing to be able to get out there and suck people in. And then they can see your pricing which you should post and then you can get them to actually buy. Scale? Joel, doesn't see how you're going to be able to scale without humans.

Chad (32m 4s):

Dude, I see it. Humans don't scale well, and they are expensive. I see your model moving more toward a single auditor, which allows those machines to scale better and for your margins to actually increase! Which I love. Direct. Usually I hate companies that go only direct. They don't have a director and a partner type of a prong to their go to market, although you're different because you are going only after high value targets. So I totally get that. I believe from an RPO standpoint, I know for a fact, RPOs are always looking to trim head count, and they want a fluid system that can tap into, to be able to quickly and easily get candidates over into their clients.

Chad (32m 49s):

You fit that bill so nicely, which in this point even helps to make you recession-proof because those Randstads, those House of HRS, Adeccos, might've heard of these guys before they are going to want to downsize even more to be able to focus on EBITDA, which means they're going to need platforms like you, right? So they can scale better. Timing's great! Team has great 70% revenues US and RPOs. IT software related. I can't say any more, man. This is a big applause for me.

Joel (33m 24s):

Oh Shit, double big applause, Joss.

Chad (33m 25s):

And it's not just because you got that great accent, man. It's more than that.

Joel (33m 31s):

How do you feel Joss?

Joss (33m 33s):

Oh gosh, I think I'm going to take the day off.

Joel (33m 36s):

Why not you're French? It's built in. Take a day off, have some wine and cheese. I love it.

Joss (33m 40s):

I know.

Joel (33m 40s):

So for our listeners who want to learn more about Visage, or maybe get a discount for being on the show, where would you send them Joss?

Joss (33m 56s):

Yeah. So they can go on websites with the magnificent domain. Ping me on LinkedIn Joss Leufrancois, I accept all the invitation coming from people from our space.

Joel (34m 7s):

He's full of that French love, accepts everybody on LinkedIn. Chad another one in the can. This one was fun.

Chad and Cheese (34m 12s):

We out, we out.

FiringSquad OUTRO (34m 14s):

This has been the Firing Squad. Be sure to subscribe to the Chad and Cheese Podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you're a startup who wants to face the Firing Squad, contact the boys at today. That's

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