From Hi to Hired w/ Julia Levy

This week on The Chad & Cheese Podcast, we welcome back the unstoppable Julia Levy, TA leader, author, HR tech whisperer, and all-around friend of the show. From AutoZone to Comscope to MetLife, Julia’s career spans industries, ATS graveyards, and enough tech chaos to make even Euro-Chad reach for a Super Bock.

Julia breaks down:

• Why today’s tech landscape is more confusing than a job board dressed up as “AI-powered magic”

• How TA pros should actually evaluate vendors (hint: it’s not by the size of their booth)

• What students really need to land internships in a volatile market

• Why AI-to-AI job applications mean the robots are now rejecting each other

• And her new book “From Hi to Hired” — a love letter to the next generation trying to claw their way into the workforce

  
  

It’s candid. It’s tactical. It’s funny. And yes, Joel goes straight for the shrinkage jokes.

Don’t miss this one.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Joel Cheesman (00:43.141)

Yeah, it's the podcast your mother warned you about. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast, everybody. I'm your co-host, Joel Cheeseman. Joined as always, Chad Sewash is riding shotgun as we welcome Julia Levy to the podcast. Julie is a TA leader, a job search strategist, HR tech advisor, and author. And can I add friend of the show to your portfolio? My portfolio, yeah, that's right.

Chad (00:51.566)

Hello.

Chad (01:05.401)

gotta hope so. Well, not just that, she's also a Portugal visitor. Yeah.

Julia Levy (01:11.308)

Yes. I've had the ginja with you.

Joel Cheesman (01:11.333)

so Euro Chad. Is there a Euro Julia like there's a Euro Chad?

Julia Levy (01:19.702)

Eventually.

Chad (01:19.737)

Soon to be, hopefully, huh? Huh? Eventually.

Joel Cheesman (01:20.965)

Eventually, eventually you got to ease into that. can't just dive in and become Euro, Euro Chad. That's right. And.

Chad (01:24.463)

You can't just, you can't go full Euro. You just can't, don't, gotta ease, ease into it.

Julia Levy (01:31.128)

Soon enough Chad will be wearing cropped pants, slim pants, cropped slim pants.

Chad (01:35.247)

You

Joel Cheesman (01:36.237)

Are crops the same as Capri pants? those, those fans that are like at the knee. Yeah, that's very European. That's very, so prior to the current gig, which we'll talk about, you're working over time in the bone zone. Is that right? I mean, auto zone. Sorry, not the bone zone. I get those mixed up all the time. Yeah. Totally different job on that one.

Chad (01:53.155)

That's an entirely different company. Entirely different company.

Julia Levy (01:53.3)

I was. Yes. Yes. Left there in June.

Joel Cheesman (02:00.297)

Okay. So for all listeners that don't know you, you're our prior guest on the show. So feel free to search the archives. What else do we need to know about you?

Julia Levy (02:09.3)

I'm a recovering talent acquisition executive. So left AutoZone in June have been decompressing, enjoying a couple of the conferences, wrote the book, but have a real passion for sharing my 25 plus years of knowledge with others. So job seekers and TA professionals helping people find jobs and helping people be better at their jobs.

Chad (02:28.175)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (02:37.263)

So you've been through a ton of different types of businesses, not just going from one industry and staying in the same industry. So give me a kind of like a top down, because that almost has to feel almost like a civil multiple personalities kind of scenario. give the listeners a little bit about you and the types of organizations you've actually been in TA at.

Julia Levy (03:02.358)

Yeah, I started my career doing tech recruiting and for like a tech consulting company finding people to work on their projects. Worked in staffing, had a couple years at Robert Half. So I know how to sell most placeable candidates. They were good training ground for court recruiting skills. Worked at a company that did telemarketing services inbound and outbound.

Chad (03:22.735)

Yeah. Yeah, I bet.

Julia Levy (03:30.574)

So learned the volume side there, but also was working on a lot of project work. And that's where I got the taste for talent acquisition operations and then got a job at MetLife. And so did a lot of recruiting for them in their strategic staffing groups. So that was my first big ATS implementation. went from...

Chad (03:40.559)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (03:54.509)

Which one was it?

Julia Levy (03:58.498)

PeopleSoft, before PeopleSoft had like some sort of ATS and we implemented, my gosh, who did we implement there? It is. We also centralized staffing. So I worked with an RPO there. I feel like whoever it was got eaten up. I used Resimix previously. Yes. Yes, that's agent.

Chad (04:08.623)

It's forgettable.

Good? huh.

Chad (04:19.914)

Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's way, that's way back. That's way back. That's in the way back machine.

Joel Cheesman (04:25.315)

The that she doesn't remember speaks volumes, doesn't it? The fact that says more about the ATS industry than anything I've ever heard. I don't even remember. I don't remember.

Chad (04:28.001)

I know, it does.

Julia Levy (04:28.142)

You

Julia Levy (04:32.053)

Yeah, it's all the same, right? But worked at some other like financial services companies, worked for a company. I think when we first met, I may have been working at Fiserv, the financial technology company. Because I think Chad, when I first met you, you thought I was selling blue pills.

Chad (04:50.959)

That's because Joel's always talking about him.

Julia Levy (04:53.102)

I worked for a company, Comscope. So I've worked for several companies that were not brand names, but large employers.

Joel Cheesman (04:58.169)

Not Bluetooth though, right? Not Bluetooth, okay.

Chad (04:59.652)

Go.

Chad (05:07.149)

Yeah. How many, how many people did the Fiserv have? Cause that was a big, and also ComSkip, those are two big companies, right?

Julia Levy (05:13.004)

Yeah, Fiserv had around 30,000, I think, when I was there and Comscope was closer to 40,000. Comscope was really interesting because we operated in about 120 different countries. So talk about complexity of that. And it was manufacturing, hiring, and also high tech.

Chad (05:34.733)

Yeah. So which heads into what we're going to talk about today. Somebody with your experience. Has it ever been so fucking confusing in your life? The technology landscape that we have today. And I don't mean the names because we've always had a lot of names. Don't get me wrong, right? It's just what they do and what they say they do. And are they a point solution? Are they a platform? It's just so when you have to deal with this kind of stuff.

Julia Levy (05:35.959)

So.

Chad (06:03.919)

Where do you start? Because there's a lot of noise.

Julia Levy (06:08.018)

I always start with identifying what my problem is because if you go to any conference, you could see some really kind of cool technology. And I think a lot of practitioners see the technology, think it's really cool and interesting, and then try and make it fit into their organization and their tech stack.

Chad (06:14.159)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (06:27.599)

Square peg, whole square peg scenario.

Julia Levy (06:30.934)

And I really try and start to identify the problem. Where are we today? What's the problem? And then where do we need to be? And then I'll try and look for what technology might solve that specific problem.

Chad (06:34.212)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (06:44.933)

So you just got back from Wreckfest, which had a myriad of booths. How much of success is based on sort of doing your homework before you go, right? Like they say, never go to the grocery store hungry because you'll end up with more food than you need. You should have a list. Like how much of your, of your tips involve like knowing what to ask when you go there or like the battle is always won before it's fought.

versus, man, these all look exciting. We want to buy all this stuff. Talk about preparation and then sort of what you found at rec fest and who's doing it right from a vendor vendor perspective.

Chad (07:20.673)

Leave it to Cheeseman to pull together a great food analogy, by the way. That was a very good one. That's a good one. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (07:24.035)

And I've had lunch, so I'm feeling pretty good. I'm not even like lunchtime podcast guy.

Julia Levy (07:26.062)

you

Julia Levy (07:30.798)

I will always try if I'm if I am trying to solve a problem currently where I am, I will do the research on who's going to be exhibiting and or who those customers are to try and reach out to those companies that work with them currently to see if their leaders are going to be at the same conference, spend time with them to find out the real deal on what's going on, not just what the vendors putting up there. And I will be

Chad (07:37.667)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (07:46.681)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (07:59.424)

make sure that I'm going to those vendors. If it's something that I have an interest in, I'll look and see what vendors play in that space, just to start to get to know them and see what they're selling. But I am very intentional if I have a problem that I'm currently solving with technology. This RECFEST, I did not walk around the vendor booths as much as I normally do, partly because I was having too much fun catching up with

Chad (08:04.697)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (08:26.198)

my industry friends, and then also I was hosting one of the stages a full day. So I didn't have as much time. There's a couple that I'm looping back with after RecFest to have conversations with, but a lot of the times the people that the vendor send to the conferences can't answer some of the questions I might have, especially right now, all the vendors have AI on them. That stamp is just up there.

Joel Cheesman (08:48.293)

Hmm.

Chad (08:52.303)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Julia Levy (08:55.726)

The question is, did they just kind of add a shiny new UX and a chatbot, and it's the same tech that we've been using since 2015? Maybe. I've seen a couple new iterations of what Hiring Solved and Intelli were doing with just an AI overlay.

Chad (09:13.967)

Yes, Joel's favorite.

Joel Cheesman (09:15.365)

Don't bring juice box into this. Don't bring juice box into this conversation.

Julia Levy (09:22.016)

I didn't call out any of the new vendors.

Chad (09:22.467)

Hey, they had some great...

Joel Cheesman (09:24.365)

I'm not getting a big seal of approval on any of the vendors that stood out at the show, even though you didn't have sort of time to see everyone. No one really sort of stood out. And I would agree with that. think for the most part, would you, any advice to you and what did they do? The one that stuck out, what did they do to get your attention?

Julia Levy (09:36.726)

I think there's a couple.

Julia Levy (09:42.88)

I still have more to dig in, I do, I like how hack a job and Mark is positioning their three AI personalities, but I haven't dug in enough yet on what they're doing. I haven't played around in the sandbox to see, you know, how, how it really is going to help practitioners.

Chad (10:06.127)

Yeah, think that's the big key because you take a look at, and I'm definitely biased because I'm an advisor for Hack a Job. What they're actually pulling together, you've got a couple of different things and Joel's always talking about the death of job boards and whatnot. And I agree if the job boards, unless they're like ultra niche, if they stay where they are today, they're going to blockbuster themselves, right?

So you need to evolve, which is, think, you what you're saying from platforms like HackJob. You have to see that evolution. The hard part though is what's real, right? And you've got to literally have a couple of different things. You've got to have a hell of a network to be able to lean on to see what other people are using, References from those companies, which they probably use over and over over over and over. I'm sure you've been one of those at one time. And then just being able to go do your own

non-bias due diligence yourself. What else? Is there anything else or is there literally that's just kind of like the mixture and then you just have to do a lot of work. And have you ever had anybody on your staff who was literally that this was their focus systems, TA systems.

Julia Levy (11:24.726)

I sat in that role as a TA operations person at Fiserv and at Assurance, two of my earlier roles. And so I was that person on the team. Moving into ComScope and moving into AutoZone, the people in those roles were not people that were skilled at identifying and really understanding.

Chad (11:29.017)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (11:38.009)

Gotcha.

Julia Levy (11:54.722)

the tech. And so I think that there's opportunities. A lot of companies don't have that operational expertise or people that are really digging into the software.

Joel Cheesman (12:08.793)

How differently are you treated when you're now Julia Levy, author, expert, a consultant versus Julia with AutoZone? Are you treated a little differently?

Julia Levy (12:19.934)

No, because most people aren't looking at LinkedIn and seeing that I'm no longer there. And so I'm still getting all the sales calls. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (12:25.903)

But when you used to go up to a booth with your little badge that said AutoZone, I'm assuming that you were treated differently than you are now.

Julia Levy (12:32.47)

Yeah, I think that I'll tell people in between gigs, although I'm still deciding if I want to go back to another corporate gig. I do think I want to make a run of the consulting. And I don't know that I have the BS thermometer set at the right point to go back to corporate.

Joel Cheesman (12:54.573)

It's pronounced barometer, I think.

Julia Levy (12:56.399)

Thank you. could not get the word out of my head, so I appreciate it.

Chad (12:56.811)

Hehehehehe

Joel Cheesman (12:59.194)

Yeah

In between. So you're not, you're not done with big co necessarily. which is, this is a big change for you. Like to go from big co and what you've done to now talk about the change pros and cons.

Julia Levy (13:13.14)

It's my whole identity, right? Like I've been a talent acquisition leader and exec for all these years. And now that switch, think even with like writing my book, I started writing the book in corporate tone. I'm writing for college students. My love letter to students and I was writing in my corporate tone and had given a couple chapters to my sister-in-law who kind of called it out and said,

Joel Cheesman (13:33.551)

huh.

Julia Levy (13:43.744)

My kids are never gonna read this and that's what I was writing it for.

Joel Cheesman (13:48.293)

Keep her around. You want people like that in your corner for sure. Yeah, too many people tell you it's great when it needs help.

Chad (13:50.189)

Yes, yes you do.

Julia Levy (13:50.892)

You need it.

Chad (13:55.842)

Yeah.

Julia Levy (13:55.989)

I mean, it's I'm setting up the meetings I want to have instead of having things dictated to me and I can decide. It's nice. if I could. I mean, income aside, right, this is stuff that fills my cup. And so I have to figure out how to make a little bit of a living from it. But I I'm really happy. mean, I saw someone at HR Tech that said my like disposition and energy was 180 degree.

Joel Cheesman (14:10.405)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (14:24.642)

difference from when they spoke to me while I was working at a big company versus when they saw me a couple months later. That says something.

Chad (14:33.454)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (14:34.369)

I have found all my interactions with you to be pleasant, Julia, by the way. I think you're always pleasant and sunny, for sure. I can only imagine. That's why I don't do it. So you mentioned the book. Do we want to jump into the book and why you wrote it and what it's about?

Julia Levy (14:37.579)

I appreciate that.

Chad (14:41.315)

Sometimes corporate can be soul sucking. Yes. No question. Yes. It's one reason.

Julia Levy (14:52.95)

Yeah, it's my love letter to this next generation. So the news has been unemployment for recent grads is at an all time high, I believe. And I forget how many percentage points ahead of every other unemployment number, although we haven't gotten any lately. but as I'm talking to college students, they're struggling. They're struggling after graduation.

Chad (15:12.271)

Yes.

Julia Levy (15:21.974)

moving back in with mom and dad. I know you guys talked about this with JT a couple of weeks back, right? They're moving in with mom and dad, still on that payroll while they're job hunting. I've had many conversations with students that are talking about those struggles and some of it is information that I can help with. A lot of it is, right? So...

Chad (15:27.331)

Mm.

Julia Levy (15:47.222)

I wrote the book, it's From High to Hired, your insider guide to internships.

Joel Cheesman (15:53.281)

And that's not H-I-G-H for everybody that's listening. It's just H-I. Yeah.

Julia Levy (15:56.49)

No, no, that would be high to fired. Yeah. Actually, I credit Julie and JCK, Jenny, as they were speaking at Unleash about candidate experience. And one of them said something about the candidate journey from hello to hired. And I grabbed that URL almost after, because I was like, this is a really cool way to talk about it that people understand instead of the

Chad (15:59.831)

Hello.

Julia Levy (16:25.112)

tell an attraction funnel from getting their attention to, I liked that kind of journey. so I put my heart into the book to give students, I wanted to start with internships because I knew if I could get this out in time, it would be right in internship season. But the skills and the things that I teach in the book are things that can carry you throughout your career.

I may flip this into a first job book over the next couple months and help students learn some of the skills. like companies are using AI to filter out candidates and candidates are now using AI to apply to hundreds of jobs at once. So now we've got AI talking with AI. So that'll be an interesting lens to put on it in the future.

Chad (16:56.025)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (17:17.209)

Well, yeah, and with the job market the way it is right now, because obviously there are a ton of individuals that are out on the market, but the internships aren't at the level that they used to be. And with a lot of these companies who are looking to push AI into entry level to do some of these, or at least they're playing with the game here, what do you say to, I mean, these kids that are coming out today and what...

What do say to them? mean, this is a rough economy and it feels like it's going to get rougher.

Joel Cheesman (17:45.358)

you

Julia Levy (17:51.83)

It's tough, think for so many years we were just told and pushed into college. And I think that some students might be better served in the trades. And I think there's a lot of opportunities there and you can build a really good career and make some really good money from that perspective. And then I think that working at companies like AutoZone, like Chick-fil-A,

Chad (18:10.435)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (18:19.938)

Companies that are in growth mode where you could even start in college with a part-time job doesn't even have to be an internship and work your way up through an organization. Beyond that, I don't think that students in this generation see that there are career paths within some of the hospitality and retail and all of that. So those are some opportunities for students that not everyone's taking advantage of. Internships companies are.

Chad (18:25.241)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (18:46.998)

reducing right now with so much economic uncertainty, the numbers of interns might shrink, which then makes it even more competitive.

Joel Cheesman (18:55.425)

Do you have any sense of the numbers on the shrinkage? we talking 10 %? Are we talking 50?

Chad (18:56.601)

So how...

Julia Levy (18:59.95)

My head just went to like...

Chad (19:03.375)

It's a, we know it's cold. It's cold in Joel's office. There's some shrinkage.

Joel Cheesman (19:03.585)

I know you're on the chat and cheese podcast. I know where you're, I know where your head went. you naughty, you naughty, naughty, naughty. So, so naughty. But yeah, I mean, I'm just curious as someone with one in college and one there soon, I'd love to know the lay of the land. Like what are they going to be facing soon? How, like, are they slashing internships? Is it a small percentage? How are companies looking at internships now?

Julia Levy (19:09.996)

Chad (19:24.791)

the ball.

Julia Levy (19:26.766)

I think it's like 10 to 15%, maybe 20 % at most. I'm not seeing programs being slashed 50, 60, 70%. So I do think that there's still some robust programs out there. Now, the consulting world, some of those companies got a little decimated by some of the government.

Chad (19:49.967)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (19:50.446)

shutdowns and contracts going away. So some of those companies in certain areas might have slashed a little deeper than others. But I do still think that there's a lot of opportunities out there when I'm talking with students. One of them applied to like 53 different internships. So there's still a lot because you still have smaller and mid-sized companies hiring interns as well, not just the large employers. And that's part of the perspective. I mentioned I worked for some brands.

Chad (19:57.347)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (20:18.88)

No one ever heard of, we had internship programs. Now, when we went to campuses, students were lining up for the fang or whatever, man, they're called now. But, you know, they wanted to work at Apple and Facebook and et cetera. And they weren't coming over to com scope necessarily, because they didn't know who we were. And there's a lot of those opportunities, kind of like, Julie, you were asking me, did I prepare to come to a conference looking at what

Chad (20:20.355)

Yeah. Big companies too.

Chad (20:29.294)

Yeah.

Chad (20:40.778)

Don't don't

Julia Levy (20:47.372)

specific technology, students need to be doing that as well.

Chad (20:51.695)

It feels like it feels like that in itself is literally a failure of corporate America. Number one, because we're not getting into the community and letting them know who coms, Kupa is number one, right? And if they're going, if you're going to be hiring out of the community, shit, they should know who the hell you are. Right? Marketing for product is one thing. Marketing to be able to get somebody to spend 40 hours plus a week at your organization, doing good work is, is also something, something that's important.

And that being said, I also think that we were starting too late. We should be talking to kids in high school, right? Because by the time they're in college, they've already made the guy they're already in debt, right? They're already in debt. and what's the percentage of those who don't make it. So I think like your book and your knowledge is so important, not just for those kids in college, which I do think it's incredibly important for, but also before they get there so that they are making the decisions.

that, that they, or at least they, they, they have the information to make the decisions versus, well, mom and dad says I got to go to college.

Joel Cheesman (21:58.991)

That's a great point, Chad. mean, I don't think we ever think of high school as an internship opportunity. Was that part of the book and where you you landed or no? Was it all college?

Julia Levy (21:59.416)

Yeah.

Chad (22:02.992)

got ya. Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (22:09.506)

The book is mostly college focused, but because a lot of the bigger companies don't do high school internship programs, although I will say AutoZone in certain locations had summer intern programs with high school students because they also hired high school students. And so that was, you know, part of the playbook for the field organization.

Chad (22:18.799)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (22:29.166)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (22:35.663)

Yeah. How aggressive are companies now with like onsite job events? Is that a thing of the past or is that something companies are still aggressively pursuing?

Julia Levy (22:45.964)

I think not as much as they used to, but they are still doing them. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (22:50.501)

Okay. And in the, in the book you talk about, you have three specific tips on how to help students land an internship. And the first one is be a connector, not a concierge. What did you mean by that?

Julia Levy (23:07.214)

I've seen a lot of students go through LinkedIn and they start just, you know, connecting with people, but they're not adding value to the conversation. And so it's not just connecting, but adding to the conversation, getting to know the people, helping connect those people to other people. And so there's,

Chad (23:18.287)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (23:32.234)

more than just doing the basics. think you have to step up and really that relationship piece of things is more critically important now than ever, especially with AI, prolificating everything.

Joel Cheesman (23:43.045)

So, so tactically, I'm a 21 year old, I don't know shit from Shinola. and you're asking me now to like reach out to people and engage on LinkedIn. Give me some like easy tips for someone young who has no connections to like outreach to people. What should they say? What should they do? Should it be making content? What kind of content? Give me some tactical information.

Julia Levy (23:48.578)

you

Julia Levy (24:04.726)

Yeah, I think that you can connect things to what a company is doing. So you can read some news that just came out about the company, ask the person that you're connecting with. If I'm an engineering student and the person's a mechanical engineer, I could ask about what types of projects they work on. I could mention something that I learned in school that might relate to something that they're doing.

So I think there's ways that you can draw some connections between things that you're learning in school, in the classroom, to how a company might be applying those things in their products and services. News and people publish books or write articles. People, think, are more active in putting some of their thought leadership out there. So commenting on the thought leadership or

having a news alert on Google for something that's coming in about that person, that industry, that company, if it's a target of theirs.

Joel Cheesman (25:11.119)

So number two, have target problems, not just postings. Talk about that.

Julia Levy (25:16.386)

Boy, you're like laying it in Joel. Yep. Sorry. yeah, target the problem. this, mean, goes back to a little bit of what we were talking about, even in my TA role, like understand the problem that this company is having and come up with ideas on how you can solve those problems. So not just if I was a social media person that

Joel Cheesman (25:20.697)

There's still another one coming, Julia. So let's go. We're just only two in.

Chad (25:36.793)

Mm-hmm.

Julia Levy (25:44.75)

I increased engagement, but I targeted the personas that this company was looking for and increased engagement of the target audience for that company. So there's ways that you can reposition things that you're doing that show how you solved a similar problem to what that company might be encountering based on what's in the job description. So you might be able to, some job descriptions are better than others as we all know.

Chad (26:14.243)

Yeah.

Julia Levy (26:14.498)

but you can try and find out from the job description about what problems they need solved by what's in it, or that might be a good question to ask the recruiter if you become connected with the recruiter or on some of the research that you're doing with the, about the company. You could also use AI to say, hey, this is the company, this is the job and what are some of the problems that they're trying to solve and how can I better position myself or my conversations around that to be more impactful.

Chad (26:44.975)

So there, we've had for years now skills gaps. Now we have all this tech that these kids need to learn. And we also have a lot of tech that could prospectively be taking tasks and or jobs. So we talk about this transition period of this new kind of like AI landscape that we're in today. It's gonna take jobs. There's no question it's gonna take. It's already taken jobs, okay? For all those people that say you haven't, it has.

How long do you think it's gonna take us to get through that transition period? Because these kids right here, the ones that we're talking about that are in school, that are coming out of school, they're the ones who are going to be collateral damage for this if we don't figure this out soon. How long do you think it's gonna take and what will it take? Is it gonna have to be government intervention? What's gonna have to happen here?

Julia Levy (27:35.564)

I don't know the time because I feel like AI is moving so quickly. The pace of innovation.

Chad (27:40.589)

Yeah. And we're not.

Julia Levy (27:45.292)

Yeah, I mean I walked away from the HR tech conference like I don't know crap.

And I feel like I'm educated and I'm like, okay, now I'm scrambling to try and figure out what are the best places for me to get some information and, you know, better teach myself some of this, like creating my own AI agents and some, I'm playing around with it quite a bit to try and learn more so that as I'm having conversations with some of the tech vendors and practitioners, I'm speaking eloquently, not, you know, six months ago.

Joel Cheesman (28:19.545)

Yep. All right, Julie, you ready for the third point in your book that you talk about? have have mine the no for gold. Talk about that.

Julia Levy (28:23.03)

Yes.

Chad (28:23.853)

Remember, please.

Chad (28:31.311)

Excuse me.

Julia Levy (28:32.43)

So it's almost how do you turn? Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (28:35.713)

And that's N-O. Mine, like mining, the N-O, no, for gold. Just for everyone who's confused by what I just asked. Right.

Chad (28:40.733)

the note.

Julia Levy (28:44.512)

Not the K-N-O-W.

I think that any rejection, we all live in a world of rejection and every rejection is an opportunity for you to grow and learn from it. And so whether it's a salary negotiation and you get a no, I'm not going to give you $5,000 more on your salary.

it could be leaning then into, most companies don't have a lot of wiggle room in that base salary, but they do have wiggle room in other areas. Or if you can find out from the recruiter, if you got rejected for a role that you interviewed with, they can provide you some information. And then what are you going to do with that information? How are you going to apply it to what you're going to do next? So think there's a couple different applications in how you take

rejection or no. I always, if my mom said no, wouldn't ask my dad, right? But I think that there's always opportunities for people to learn from their mistakes, learn from rejection, and continue to improve yourself. And you'll be that better at negotiating for salary at the next offer.

Chad (30:05.391)

Yeah, I think any company who literally wants to wants to get, I don't know, a more polished brand, let's say more polished narrative around hiring and not sending candidates into the black hole and helping out the community should buy a bunch of these books and then start distributing them to the individuals on campus, going into local high schools, those types of things, and literally just trying to help the people around us get better.

And if they want to do that, Julia, they want to find this book, they want to connect with you, where would you send them?

Julia Levy (30:41.326)

So I am at Recruiting Julia and also I have a website. It's Hi2Hired.com. Hi2Hired.com. And then the book is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, pretty much wherever books are sold. And then for like universities or school systems, there's a company called Ingram that they're all familiar with that they can order the book.

there as well. And then I've got on LinkedIn, Julia Levy.

Chad (31:17.592)

Excellent.

Joel Cheesman (31:17.761)

I dig it and I can tell you Chad there's going to be two stockings this Christmas with Julie's book for a couple of Cheesement kids that need some learning. That is another one.

Julia Levy (31:26.945)

And I'm happy to talk and coach them anytime.

Joel Cheesman (31:30.583)

hello. Hello. Pro Bono, right? Pro Bono, friend of, all right, here we go. Here we go. Now we're talking. Now we're talking. Go buy that book, everybody. That's another one in the can, Chad. We out.

Chad (31:30.959)

Ooh, personal. You a little private lessons.

Julia Levy (31:32.79)

Yep. Friends and family.

Thank

Chad (31:42.123)

We out!