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2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

HR Darwin Awards

Can we have a moment of silence for the death of Hire by Google? OK, enough of that.

On this week’s episode, the boys cover

- News from Florida, where SHRM conferences are competing for Darwin Awards

- Staffing agencies are getting gobbled up by job sites

- SmartRecruiters kicks the cubical to the curb

- Ultimate + Kronos = Crayon Marketing

- Facebook plays the VR card

- Burger King keeps blowing our minds and we finally reveal Chad’s porn name.

It’s a wild ride, recorded in-person from Columbus, Indiana and, as always, powered by Sovren, JobAdx, and Jobvite.


Disability Solutions provides full-scale inclusion initiatives for people with disabilities.

INTRO (14s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HRS most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (29s):

Aw yeah.

Chad (31s):


Joel (32s):

Working harder than two ugly strippers in a pandemic Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast coming at you from a Mexican restaurant in beautiful Columbus, Indiana.

Chad (39s):

We're outside people.

Joel (43s):

What's up everybody. I'm your cohost Joel, Chuck Taylor Cheesman.

Chad (47s):

And I'm Chad. I'm eating the shit out of salsa Sowash.

Joel (52s):

And on this week's episode, our official eulogy to Google Hire, goes shopping.

Chad (58s):


Joel (58s):

No wait, hope you're sitting down.. Facebook VR people ...

Chad (-):

Damn it.

Joel (1m 6s):

Yeah, boy we'll be right back after I get this salsa off my tee shirt.

Jobvite (1m 6s):

Getting the right people to apply for the right jobs at the right time has always been a challenge. And now with an influx of candidates and increased workload recruiters have to work smarter to provide a memorable candidate experience. Make moments matter with Jobvite a comprehensive talent acquisition suite that offers a marketing inspired approach to recruiting so that talent teams can more intelligently attract, engage and retain top talent. Combine the power of AI and the human touch - Jobvite recruit with purpose, hire with confidence.

Chad (1m 35s):

And we're back that's right people we are back.

Joel (1m 39s):

Our second ever outdoor dining podcast in Columbus.

Chad (1m 39s):

in Columbus!

Joel (1m 39s):

I'll remind you that you weren't real happy about the editing of my chomping on wings the last time we talked. So this time you bring me to a Mexican place with chips and salsa in front of me. So you have a nightmare editing night of editing in your future. My friend.

Chad (1m 60s):

Anywhere that we meet for lunch, there's going to be gnawing, it's just gonna happen. So I just have to live with it and listeners so do you.

Joel (2m 6s):

At least this one comes with a Micheloda and a margarita. Lalalala.

Chad (2m 9s):

Yes. And luckily again, in downtown Columbus, outside.

Joel (2m 17s):

COVID friendly, COVID aware.

Chad (2m 17s):


Joel (2m 17s):

Unlike our first news story, which we'll get to. And that's exactly right, but, but shout outs! What do you think? I'm going to go with Jeremy Roberts as my first shout out. We mentioned Jeremy in last week's show was a Hiring Solved layoffs.

Chad (2m 33s):


Joel (2m 33s):

Unfortunately, but he has found, he has found his feet, his footing. My God, he'll be joining Seek Out.

Chad (2m 42s):


Joel (2m 42s):

Former death match winner Anoop Gupta.

Chad (2m 42s):

Very smart, good job Anoop.

Joel (2m 47s):

Well done on both parties. I'm excited to see how that works out. Jeremy will apparently be doing some sort of sales consulting with clients and whatnot. We'll get more on that. But shout out to Jeremy.

Chad (2m 58s):

Good call and Jackie's out there, too, by the way. Don't forget it. Don't don't forget about her.

Joel (3m 0s):

Jackie's waiting. She's got some solid talent.

Chad (3m 4s):

She's got some, she's got some things being thrown at her. So if you want to get in the Jackie running, you should be doing that pretty pretty quickly. Jackie, running the Jackie running. That's what we're going to call it.

Joel (3m 15s):

Cool runnings, Jackie runnings. Oh dude. No, John Candy in this one though

Chad (3m 19s):

Dude if you ever go to, if you ever go to Jamaica and you take the bus to Negril, you'll be able to hear about all the cool runnings.

Joel (3m 24s):

Is that right?

Chad (3m 24s):

Oh yes it was a blast to Jamaica.

Joel (3m 27s):

That doesn't sound like it'd be on the top five reasons to go to Jamaica.

Chad (3m 30s):

It's not, but it's a blast.

Joel (3m 32s):

If I do, I'll check that out.

Chad (3m 34s):

Okay. Two shout outs real quick. I'm gonna pull these together. One for John Thompson he died at 78. He led Georgetown to the 1984 national championship. He totally built that fucking program, dude. He was a beast! Iverson was there during his time. I think he changed Iverson's life.

Joel (3m 55s):

Yeah. You know you and I grew up in a time when the big East was the big beast.

Chad (3m 57s):

They owned it. Owned it!

Joel (3m 57s):

And I can remember when St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova and we're on the final four together. And John Thompson was a central figure in sports in our lifetime. We'll we'll certainly be missed the impact that he had on multiple lives and impacted you mentioned Allen Iverson. Iverson was noted as a top 10 football player in the country coming out of high school, as well as basketball. And he got into some trouble in high school.

Joel (4m 29s):

And the, the scholarship offers dried up and John Thompson gave this kid a chance, where he might not have had a chance. That's the kind of guy he was

Chad (4m 39s):

Ivaerson showed us what a, what a man playing a boys game looked like. Cause he owned everybody when he was at Georgetown. Chadwick Bozeman left us way too soon. He just died at 43 colon cancer. You'll know him from Black Panther, 42, Get on Up, Marshall, some really cool and hard hitting movies.

Joel (4m 57s):

Don't forget. Dress day, featuring the legendary football franchise. Cleveland Browns.

Chad (4m 57s):

Yes. Yes. But, but yeah, Chadwick Bozeman dies at 43 and he did, he did a handful of movies. Wow. He had cancer.

Joel (5m 17s):

Beast, total beast to be able to do that while having colon cancer.

Chad (5m 21s):

I'm at a loss, I'm at a loss for words. So again, you know, rest in peace, John Thompson and definitely Chadwick Bozeman.

Joel (5m 28s):

Yep. And let me remind our listeners out there that too, getting a colonoscopy is important and I've got mine.

Chad (5m 32s):

Yes good call.

Joel (5m 32s):

I'm not sure Chad has had his, we might have to do a show from the operating table while Chad gets probed, if you will. But yeah, if you're wondering questioning, if you're over 40, if there's history in your family. Go get it done. Go get it done. You'll, you'll be thankful that you did.

Chad (5m 53s):

Get it done.

Joel (5m 53s):

Shout out from me, Hillary Stern,

Chad (5m 53s):


Joel (5m 53s):

stick with me for here for a second.

Chad (5m 53s):


Joel (5m 53s):

We both agree that the political landscape in this country has become a very black and white environment. Whether if you're, if you're not with us, you're against us.

Chad (6m 9s):

It's going to get worse the closer it gets to November.

Joel (6m 11s):

It's going to go worse, it's going to get worse. So I put out what I thought was sort of a jovial, Facebook posts.

Chad (6m 16s):

You were fishing.

Joel (6m 16s):

Yeah, I was, I was maybe fishing.

Chad (6m 20s):

You were fishing.

Joel (6m 20s):

I was agitating, I think is the right word.

Chad (6m 25s):

Yes, snarky fishing.

Joel (6m 25s):

Made a comment about Biden, sort of being a GAF GAF factory.

Chad (6m 31s):

And he is. I support Biden. I'm going to vote for the dude, but he is a GAF factor.

Joel (6m 36s):

It wasn't in it. Wasn't a, not the Trump isn't cause they're both a little bit of a bad episode.

Chad (6m 39s):

Trump just lies all the time.

Joel (6m 39s):

The old classic foam in the nineties. I think so Hilary Stern, who I initially met in 2008, she was doing a story on job search. I gave her a quote and didn't hear anything from her. You know, for 12, 13 years, I Facebook friended her because back in 2008, everyone wanted to be Facebook friends.

Chad (7m 4s):

That's just what you did.

Joel (7m 6s):

So she comes out of nowhere and just berates me, says it, all my friends think my hot take is a steaming pile of garbage and calls me an Epic asshole basically.

Chad (7m 13s):

She nailed that.

Joel (7m 13s):

This is the environment. So yeah, she did probably she's probably, but I didn't, there was no banter back and forth. She just dropped a bomb and then unfriended me. So she'll probably never hear this or know about it. But Hillary man,

Chad (7m 26s):

That escalated quickly.

Joel (7m 29s):

I mean, it's not worth it. Trust me. It's not worth it. Life is too short. Yes. It's too short.

Chad (7m 41s):

It is. I've been defriending motherfuckers on Facebook just because they're looking sideways about this point. Cause I know it's going to get worse. Yeah.

Joel (7m 49s):

If Trump wins this country is going to go bonkers.

Chad (7m 51s):

Yeah, indeed, no matter what I'm going to Portugal. Let's get outta here. Okay. So our buddy Tyler Weeks over at Intel, Tyler was trolling the new 10 guy English software announcement on Twitter and writing about how to use conversational AI without it feeling like you're cat-fishing them. He actually, he actually had Manti Te'o and Star Trek references in the same article, Dude that was too much.

Joel (8m 19s):

Only Tyler two references together. But shout out to Tim guy, by the way, your recruiting robot it's in English. It can now disappoint you and let you down in English, which is nice. But now we get to finally see what this thing has. This thing is finally speaking the language of money worldwide. And yeah, I don't know if it's an English accent or American accent, Australian?

Chad (8m 43s):

I can't wait.

Joel (8m 46s):

Yeah, it's going to be interesting.

Chad (8m 46s):

I want the Obama face

Joel (8m 49s):

Virus free recruiting robot. Let's see. Let's see what happens. I was disappointed that there's no sort of a spout for hand sanitizer. As you, as you interview with it, then

Chad (8m 59s):

I think that's actually an upgrade. A shout out, shout out to Adam Gordon of Candidate ID.

Joel (9m 4s):

That guy can dress, can't he?

Chad (9m 6s):

Oh my God. And socks, socks, seriously.

Joel (9m 6s):

Mr. Style

Chad (9m 6s):

He tweeted. And I quote, if my startup had a parasitic internet scraping model, there's only one place I'd go for VC funding, China. That's right. I believe Adam is onto something. There it's a new slogan. I think for a Hiretual.

Joel (9m 26s):

If Adam is not banned in China, he soon will be

Chad (9m 30s):

His. I think he just came up with a new slogan for highchair hire to hire, hire, hire tool. It's spelled just fucks up the human brain Hiretual, the parasitic internet scraping tool for you. Adam tells it like it is dude. I love that guy.

Joel (9m 46s):

Jeremy Robert's at Seek Out. Will certainly appreciate that joke as a competitive employee. Shout out to Facebook has declared. There will be no new political ads. Two weeks. I believe up until the election. And we'll see you're you're looking like you're not real impressed with that.

Chad (10m 5s):

I don't believe Zuckerberg as far as I can throw that piece of shit

Joel (10m 8s):

By the way, it's looking like the big boy caught by huge brands hasn't done shit to Facebook. It stock continues to rock it higher.

Chad (10m 17s):

And that's about it. Make your statement and move the fuck on shout out to Kelly Robinson who tweeted and I quote Saturday morning pod catch up time starting with headlines of Google, LinkedIn and sex dolls. What could go wrong? Not a damn thing, Kelly, miss ya man, call me.

Joel (10m 34s):

You're welcome Kelly. You're welcome. That's all I have to say. Mathison in startup world got 2 million in seed funding this week.

Chad (10m 43s):

For what?

Joel (10m 43s):

They're there on the trend of diversity, social networks for professionals. We've mentioned a few of those in the past few weeks, they continue to make money and continue to make waves. So Mathison, shout out to you!

Chad (10m 57s):

Outcomes, baby show me the outcomes. A big shout out to Chad Kremer. How do you like that last name?

Joel (11m 7s):

That's your porn name.

Chad (11m 7s):

That is my porn name!

Joel (11m 7s):

Starring Jack Hammer and Chad Creamer.

Chad (11m 11s):

VP over at Wilson, HCG. Thanks for listening brother.

Joel (11m 17s):

So Old Navy

Chad (11m 17s):

Old Navy?

Joel (11m 17s):

I like to get my, my stylish clothes

Chad (11m 23s):

Because they give them to you for free for God's sakes, goddamn discount.

Joel (11m 27s):

They pay me to go shop at Old Navy. They're going to give, I guess essentially paid holidays on election day for their workers to go work the polls.

Chad (11m 33s):

Stout, that is stout!

Joel (11m 33s):

That's a good thing. You know, it's an aging group of people that are working the polls. Yeah. Put some young, Old Navy employees.

Chad (11m 40s):

I will be working the polls, did I just say that out loud?

Joel (11m 46s):

You did. And my, my newly Americanized wife, dual citizen of will be working the polls. She has taken her democratic expectations to a whole new level. We got yard signs up. We got all working. It's a yeah. It's democracy in action at Casa de Cheesman,

Chad (12m 7s):

Gotta get out of this poll woYrking kind of mindset. Last week, I missed Jasper Spanjaart on the, on the shout outs. He's actually the dude who shared the toe talent article with us about Google for Jobs, which is now available in the Netherlands, my bad brother

Joel (12m 23s):

Shout Out to Jasper. I just want to note that we worked Chad Kremer and working the polls in the same, same segment.

Chad (12m 30s):

I was trying to get away from that as fast as I possibly can.

Joel (12m 32s):

To let go, not to let it go. Shout out to Indian startup, Apnah, I think I'm saying that correctly,

Chad (12m 39s):

There's a great Indian place here, that great restaurant called Apnah.

Joel (12m 42s):

Okay. Next time, I guess we'll do some Indian. Their challenges to quote work at the bottom of the pyramid, I guess people that are lower income, et cetera, to work their way up. They raised 8 million to help a whole lot of Indians make a better life for themselves.

Chad (12m 58s):


Joel (12m 58s):

Good luck to them. We'll be watching and shout out to you.

Chad (13m 1s):

All right. We talked about mobile last week, so you can always subscribe to the Chad and Cheese podcast wherever you get, wherever you listen, right

Joel (13m 10s):

Cassette tapes, eight track. Okay.

Chad (13m 13s):

Our eight track game is fucking solid, but now you can get SMS updates

Joel (13m 17s):

In your pocket.

Chad (13m 17s): will be powering a new way for Chad and Cheese listeners to receive updates, news shit you want to hear about via mobile, just text CC. And that is Charlie, Charlie for all you military people out there to (833) 799-0321. And yes, we are working on the UK. So Dylan Buckley, I appreciate you're already signing up.

Chad (13m 49s):

We're working on it, man. The fear of GDPR that shit's real.

Joel (13m 55s):

Chad and Cheese and vibrating phones. What could go wrong? What could go wrong?

Chad (13m 59s):

I love it! Events? Yep. All right. So on September 22nd at 2:00 PM Eastern time, I'll be teaming up with our buddy Jim Stroud and Patrick Norine from Bedell consulting for a little thing. We're calling Friendly Discourse.

Joel (14m 18s):

So Hillary Stern won't be on that show.

Chad (14m 18s):

I might get her. She sounds like she's legit and ready, Jim and I will be debating what he likes to call diversity quotas and Patrick will be refereeing. So what we're going to do is it's almost very similar to a firing squad. Jim will get an opening statement on what he believes about hiring quotas. Yes, I'll get an opening statement and then Patrick will be the referee. He will ask questions, redirect, do all that stuff. And we have time limits in which we answer questions, called Friendly Discourse.

Chad (14m 53s):

September 22nd. Go check me out on Twitter, LinkedIn Facebook, and we'll have the registration information out there soon.

Joel (15m 2s):

Interesting quick side note about Jim has a black history newsletter. Were you aware of this? And it's quite informative. It's it's not related to recruiting whatsoever. Yeah. A recent one was about the original bootylicious. I don't know if you remember that or not. So, so Jim is educating minds and entertaining folks all around the world. If you're not subscribed to Jim's newsletter, Jim can lead you to the promised land. It's a worthwhile read on Monday

Chad (15m 31s):

And don't forget also. Now we talk about bootylicious, go to and register for brand new Chad and Cheese tee shirts. That's right. Kids brought to you by or I'm sorry. that .com is a bitch. It's an entirely new design. We're going to send them right to your doorstep if you win a, but also sign up because we're, we're thinking about these crazy ideas, like birthday cards, holiday cards, beer, and a ton of other shit that we want to send our listeners because you know why?

Joel (16m 4s):

They can't get enough.

Chad (16m 7s):

Cause we love you because we fucking love you people.

Joel (16m 10s):

Same ugly mugs, different t-shirt design. Oh yeah. Mugs mugs is a good idea. Right? Mugs

Chad (16m 17s):

Chad and Cheese Mugs. I love it.

Joel (16m 20s):

Topics, topics. Oh boy. He knew this was going to happen. And he knew what happened in Florida. Oh

Chad (16m 25s):

Jesus Christ and I can't believe that Ron DeSantis wasn't the keynote.

Joel (16m 33s):

No, Ron DeSantis. Oh yeah.

Chad (16m 36s):

He's a piece of shit governor down in Florida. So, so we've got to say the 20, 20 HR, Florida conference and expo was the first live pandemic event of the year, at least from, from our knowledge. And they win the 2020 Chad and Cheese Darwin Award.

Joel (16m 54s):

Darwin Award! Yes. Yes. Contact tracing galore at that conference. You reached out to, to find out how many people actually signed up. They have yet to get back to you. I think that's important to note my favorite was the promo video, which actually showed the woman they were interviewing from the expo hall, using her face mask as a chin strap, as opposed to a face mask and shout out to James Ellis for noting that is one of the topics how to wear a face mask, which was for suppression. This won't be the last event.

Joel (17m 24s):

I'm sure this year we'll continue to keep an eye on these, but be safe people.

Chad (17m 29s):

Yeah. The thing is for context in numbers, which is pretty important here, Florida has a record of 600,000 plus cases and over 11,000 deaths. And just on Monday while this shit was happening, the state recorded over 7,500 new cases. So this isn't just a funny, you guys are fucking stupid segment. This is what the fuck were you thinking?

Chad (17m 59s):

And from, from, from a leadership standpoint, I'm asking you Joel,

Joel (18m 3s):

Okay, you're asking me a leadership question. I'm on it. Let's do this.

Chad (18m 8s):

If the venue says, sorry, fuck you, you've scheduled this. You're going to have to pay. Do you still have a live portion of the event?

Joel (18m 19s):

I do not. Unless we can do margarita is on the beach and have a conference which you can do in Florida. The pictures we saw were all indoor.

Chad (18m 26s):


Joel (18m 26s):

There was distancing. Like how important is it for a state Sherm conference to happen? They don't, they don't exist because of the money from the show. I'm guessing they couldn't have made that much an expo dollars because no company is traveling to Florida to exhibit.

Chad (18m 42s):

And the keynote was a zoom call.

Joel (18m 46s):

I'm really hard pressed to know why the hell this thing happened.

Chad (18m 50s):

The keynote was a zoom call.

Joel (18m 50s):

I'm sure it was.

Chad (18m 50s):

It was the dude was on the screen with the talent And people were sitting in a room watching a zoom call. So here's the question again, another question for you. This is not a leadership. This'll be easier because it'll be much easier. So as a vendor, do you buy a booth to this ffucking thing? No, dude. They, there was a 20 minute video where this idiot who he was the only one who knew how to wear a mask was going from booth to booth.

Chad (19m 22s):

I mean, I would have liked said, no, don't come to my, I don't want people to know I'm here for God's sakes. 20 minutes. There were booths at this place. What'd you first and foremost, even if it was free, would you want your brand connected to something like this?

Joel (19m 36s):

No, there's, there's nothing good that could have come from this conference for anybody. It's just really bewildering. Yeah, I got nothing.

Chad (19m 45s):

Okay. So let's, let's go ahead and move on to something that's still, you know, kind of COVID flavored.

Joel (19m 51s):

Sure. Everything's COVID and politically flavored these days.

Chad (19m 54s):

Especially that Michellati you're drinking.

Joel (19m 54s):

It's tasty.

Chad (19m 54s):

Smart Recruiters go remote forever. We had Jerome on the show a few weeks ago and that dude is poised to make moves. And apparently he just made a big fucking move.

Joel (20m 8s):

Yeah, no surprise here. Companies are making hard decisions. I think part of it is they're realizing that, "Hey, we're still in business and aren't losing a whole lot of efficiencies and productivity by having people at home." And maybe in fact, we're actually increasing our productivity. So these hard questions about do we renew leases? Do we partition off what we have or sublet stuff? Companies are having these conversations and Smart Recruiters is no is no stranger to them. And they've apparently decided, you know what?

Joel (20m 38s):

We're virtual forever. We've seen big companies around Google and Facebook and others make similar situations. You've seen REI,

Chad (20m 44s):

REI! They're selling fucking corporate Headquarters. They just built! Come on?!

Joel (20m 50s):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm curious about what happen to this spaceship of Apple in Cupertino, I guess that could be just a museum at some point. And I have heard on our industry side Indeed, who owns a lot of real estate all over the world, just making some hard decisions.

Chad (21m 6s):

In Austin, expensive in Austin.

Joel (21m 6s):

And other places like Times Square.

Chad (21m 6s):


Joel (21m 6s):

And so, so they're apparently making some hard decisions. The word that I, that I've gotten wind of is they're not looking at going back until 2022. So that's kind of how far they're looking into the future to get people back.

Chad (21m 25s):