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Jobandtalent is Coming to America, Neil Diamond-Style

Between shipments of baby formula to the U.S., Finland and Sweden applying for NATO and the impending monkeypox apocalypse, asking people to keep up with the employment scene in Europe isn't easy. So aren't you lucky Chad & Cheese, joined by Lieven, are here to make sense of it all? This week, Jobandtalent sets it's sights on the U.S., buy-or-sell with Werk and Whoz and an interview from the E-recruitment Congress.


Disability Solutions works with employers each step of the way as consultative recruiting and engagement strategists for the disability community.

INTRO (6s):

anaHide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (28s):

All yeah, more than 75,000 pounds of imported baby formula from Europe landed in the US this week. It's about time our allies return the favor for World War II. What's up kids? You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe. I'm your cohost Joel "Operation Fly Formula" Cheeseman.

Chad (48s):

This is Chad "you'd better work" Sowash.

Lieven (52s):

And I'm Lieven, "not going to Unleash ever again" Van Nieuwenhuyze.

Joel (57s):

And on this episode, Job and Talent prepares for its US invasion, buy or sell with work and woes, or is that who's? And more E-recruitment Congress. Goodness, let's do this.

sfx (1m 9s):

Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

Chad (1m 12s):

Okay. We can't let this slide. Why are you not going to Unleash? We, you teased us and you told us we're, you're coming to Unleash and now we're going to be Lieven free.

Lieven (1m 24s):

Basically, just because I'm cheap. I applied to a free ticket sale for free tickets to interesting people and then they decided I wasn't interesting enough. And I didn't apply for a free ticket. So I thought, fuck Unleash and I'm not going.M

Chad (1m 39s):

Oh God. Okay. Well, we're going to have to smooth this out with Mark and the kids that were at Unleash because you're definitely interesting. They might've, you know, got that confused with Belgium. I don't know.

Joel (1m 49s):

Yeah, he's gotta be in attendance at Paris. We can't have a Paris without Lieven. That's just not, not going to happen.

Chad (1m 57s):

Credit plus

Joel (1m 57s):

A credit and a steak is what we're going to get Lieven in Paris.

Lieven (2m 1s):

Aan American steak. Okay. I heard a lot about those after you're bitching about the bar's mistakes in Ostend.

Joel (2m 10s):

Lieven comes in the green room and says I had a really good steak in what city? Brussels.

Lieven (2m 14s):

I don't know what I said. I had a really good steak. I didn't mention where it was. It was in Belgium, but I did mention it was better than the one you had in Ostend.

Joel (2m 22s):

And then he says it was petite. And I said, oh, it was like a six ounce when he's like no smaller. And I said, what do they serve up steak nuggets on a plate in Europe, like, how is this a good steak if it's smaller than six ounces?

Lieven (2m 35s):

It's about quality Joel quality.

Chad (2m 38s):

It's exactly right.

Joel (2m 39s):

Not in American baby. It's about grill marks and size.

Chad (2m 43s):

Grill marks and obesity. That's what it's all about.

Joel (2m 46s):

All right. It's established. We're getting Lieven at Unleash in Paris and we're having a good steak.

Chad (2m 54s):


Lieven (2m 54s):


Joel (2m 54s):


Chad (2m 54s):


Joel (2m 55s):

Unless you want to come to Rekfest in July and see if the Brits have good steak?

Lieven (3m 1s):

I can do both.

Joel (3m 1s):

Okay. There you go.

Chad (3m 2s):

You can do both. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. Shout outs.

Joel (3m 5s):

I love how we wrapped our travel schedule and then for more information. Yeah, we got some shout outs here everybody. I'll go first. Shout out to tourism and healthcare. Oh, well guys, a baby formula shortage. What?

Chad (3m 23s):

I said my favorite.

Joel (3m 23s):

Oh yeah. Shout out to your favorite or tourist and healthcare. Anyway,

Chad (3m 28s):

Tourist and healthcare.

Joel (3m 29s):

Shout out to tourism and healthcare. Chad's favorite. Well guys, a baby formula, shortage, Sweden and Finland, joining NATO and monkey pox maybe throwing the world for a loop and a recession may be right around the corner, but tourism and healthcare are bright spots for Europe. The world travel and tourism council's latest economic impact report suggests Europe will create nearly 8 million new travel jobs. In the next decade. The sector is expected to grow at twice the rate of the overall economy. It also reveals Europe's tourism. GDP is forecast to grow by 31.4%.

Joel (4m 8s):

Wow. At one point 73 trillion euros and only half of that is from the Sowashes. Once more, you know, you do the Western Europe medical recruitment market is now estimated to be valued at $21.2 US billion dollars by the end of 2028. Turns out old people, disease and a growing population are good for European business. Shout out to tourism and healthcare.

Chad (4m 36s):

Nice. That's sweet. That's sweet. Yeah. Yeah. So my shout out goes to the EU for pay transparency. Members of the European parliament demand EU companies with at least 50 employees be required to disclose information that make it easier for those working for the same employer, to compare salaries and expose an existing gender pay gap in their organization. On last Friday's show, we actually talked about how the US women's football team, that's soccer for you. Americans was able to strike an equal wage deal with the men that all started because pay transparency.

Chad (5m 16s):

So kudos to the EU and driving action while the US is still fighting tooth and nail to stave off equity.

Joel (5m 26s):

That shout out was way better than mine. Lieven?

Lieven (5m 30s):

My shout-outs goes to FaZe Clan. And if you don't know face Glen, you're old because FaZe Clan, There's nothing wrong with being old.

Chad (5m 41s):

Oh my God Lieven's in a mood today.

Joel (5m 43s):

It's cause his cable guy hasn't showed up yet.

Lieven (5m 45s):

I've been waiting for six hours for the cable guy to show up. I couldn't do any meeting at all because the cable guy was going to show up and then the cable guy didn't show up. But anyways, I was talking about FaZe Clan yeah FaZe Clan. the CS go major yesterday in Antwerp. And if you don't know what to CS go major yesterday in Antwerp and your old also, because it has been followed by 170 million people worldwide and 40,000 people were present. So that's the biggest CS go Counter-Strike tournament, first yearly a big event. It's called a major. Yesterday the finals were in Antwerp. I was there and I must say it really is amazing.

Lieven (6m 26s):

I've been telling for quite some years now that our e-sports is getting big enough for us HR people to be present and to, so to use it as recruitment platform. So I was there to check it out and it is amazing. It's like soccer finals, World Cup soccer on steroids with a combination with Tomorrow lands. And if you don't know Tomorrow land your old also, but it's a big music festival and nevermind that just wants a wall check the videos. It's great.

Chad (6m 60s):

Wow! So 40,000 were alive. And how many were streaming?

Lieven (7m 5s):

170 million. That's more like the Super Bowl.

Chad (7m 8s):

Holy fuck.

Joel (7m 9s):

What's the Superbowl, a hundred million?

Lieven (7m 11s):

140 or something.

Joel (7m 12s):


Lieven (7m 13s):

On the best dat. So

Joel (7m 14s):


Lieven (7m 14s):

Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. It's huge. Surely. And it's something like a parallel world. And HR just don't know about it because on average, we are like HR managers are like older and 35 or in our 40s or whatever. And it's something new and young people are constantly active in this, but to be our not, and this is something we should be active in. So I'm a big propagandists of the e-sports to get.

Joel (7m 38s):

So were there any, cause we talked about this at the ECongress. Were there any sponsors, advertisers that sort of piqued your interest or got your attention that's worth mentioning?

Lieven (7m 49s):

The employment now. And I still think it's a missed chance.

Joel (7m 53s):

That sounds like opportunity to me.

Lieven (8m 0s):


Chad (8m 0s):

Opportunities knockin and so are topics. TOPICS!

Joel (8m 7s):

All right guys, one of Europe's is coming to America. That's after much speculation JobAndTalent is not messing around. The Spanish based company has appointed MIT grad Diego de Haro Ruiz as CEO of it's US operations. Prior to JobandTalent, Diego worked as a senior consultant for McKinsey in Madrid and as Chief Revenue Officer at New York, city-based, Aon a subsidiary, their subsidiary CoverWallet, which is an online insurance provider for small businesses. JobandTalent entered the US market earlier this year with the acquisition of InStaff for 32.3 million USD but looks like that was just the beginning.

Joel (8m 51s):

Guys. What do we think of JobandTalent's US aspirations.

Chad (8m 57s):

If you check out the Aim group's article entitled JobandTalent appoints regional CEO in the US. It made me step back for a minute, because when you say regional CEO, you don't generally mean the United States, right? It's like a polite backhand. So it was one of those very polite European backhands. Hey US, you're a region to us. Anyway.

Lieven (9m 26s):

So you're offended now?

Chad (9m 28s):

Totally offended. Sons of bitches! JobandTalent put 200,000 people in jobs across more than 2000 companies during 2021. So what they're doing is obviously working, or at least it seems to be working. Diego has a great pedigree, Aon MIT, McKinsey, yet nothing in this space, the staffing or recruitment space at all. So his last position was as a CRO for Aon, which Joel is talking about. Obviously he's smart. He's got a great pedigree. They're going to be focused on revenues in this area although a product like JobandTalent needs to have industry insiders to make the connections, to get the big deals done. Just because this guy has a great pedigree, does it mean he knows where to go or how to navigate this slow moving system?

Chad (10m 15s):

So the best thing that Diego can do is surround himself with people who know what the fuck they're doing in this industry. I also need to kind of harken back to a conversation we've always been having around JobandTalent, is staffing versus tech. I understand the portfolios, they have been buying through acquisition on the staffing side, like their newest in Norway, they pretty much bought Norway is what I think Lieven said. The question is will JobandTalent keep the high margins that staffing enjoys or kickstart narrative around faster access to better match talent with smaller margins by tech. I'm not sure where they go from here, because all we're doing is trying to substitute tech for people in staffing, or are we trying to drive better margins, efficiencies whenever you read into any of their narrative or their discussions, press releases you don't really get a good idea.

Chad (11m 15s):

So Lieven your thoughts on that. Okay.

Lieven (11m 17s):

Well, the guy studied at MIT and I love MIT. I mean, we just bought a company called TMI, which is almost the same thing.

Chad (11m 28s):

It's too much information.

Lieven (11m 29s):

But I think he's probably very intelligent, but he also sounds a bit boring, I guess. And about a regional CEO for the US, that's something I like. I mean, the US actually as a region that, I mean, you only have a one language. That's like English, you don't need money. See us we have like a thousand HR. We have 45 CEOs as, because there are so many languages, but the US, you only have one language so one CEO should be plenty. So no need to be offended. But JobandTalent is something I've always been it's something that's a bit strange. I didn't even really know them. I mean the Spanish and we are supposed to know them, they are a pretty big brand and you're going to the US. They claim to be very digital, which I don't really think they are.

Lieven (12m 12s):

It's more of a foresight. They got plenty of money because today it's easy to get plenty of money, but they still need to execute it. I wonder how we're going to do it? But the U S would probably be the place to prove.

Chad (12m 25s):

Yeah, but it seems like they're going into more competitive waters with all of the staffing companies over here, as opposed to when we first started talking about JobandTalent, we were talking about how they could perspectively be the operating system. The technology behind most of these staffing companies kind of working white label and helping staffing companies create better margins, but they're not doing that. They're actually going, it looks like head to head with other staffing companies from a competitive standpoint. To me that doesn't make sense. What do you, what do you think about?

Lieven (12m 58s):

Is yes a good answer?

Joel (13m 0s):

So I guess the question for me is just the tip strategy? Are they all in on the US? And we've talked a lot about JobandTalent in the past year. We know that they've raised upwards of $250 million. We know that they're a multi-year unicorn. We know that they've talked about IPO. We know that they're making acquisitions, so they have to do this to appease their investors. And if they're going to go IPO, they need to talk about hitting America. So it's no surprise that this is happening. They're also doing it in the midst of an impending recession. America never really goes very well for a lot of European companies. There are well-established competitors in this market. I think it's going to be a disaster for JobandTalent to come to the US at the time that they're coming over.

Joel (13m 45s):

It'll be fun to talk about. But to me, this is going to be a big flush of money in euros, down the toilet. Good luck with it kids. But if we get to play Neil Diamond?

sfx (13m 60s):

Coming to America song.

Joel (14m 1s):

I'm all for it. All right. Let's take a quick break and play a little buy or sell.

sfx (14m 6s):

Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

Joel (14m 9s):

Oh, buy or sell, you know, it, you love it. Let's play it! Doing an abbreviated version, we're doing two companies. Cause we have some interviews with E recruitment Congress that we want to play. So let's get to it. We're first going to talk about work. That's spelled W E R K because it's Europe and it's cool. Estonia based work, a hiring and relocation platform for skilled migrant construction workers announced last week that it has raised 1.23 million euros in a pre-seed round of funding. The platform enables companies to hire skilled and vetted migrant construction workers handling everything from recruitment and verification to relocation.

Joel (14m 49s):

Werk says it has reached over 2000 verified and vetted construction workers and has customers within Estonia, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark. All right. Lieven, are you a buyer sell on work?

Lieven (15m 1s):

That's a good question. And for those wants to know Werk, you spell it like twerk, but without the t, that's a good start. And it also means some work. We spell it the same way back. It's called a werk. So they've got the basics, right? So they've got a good name Werk, it's pretty straight forward, Werk. So that's a good start. I'm really, really into names. Okay. So then Estonia. Estonia is probably the most digital minded country in the whole of Europe. And that's not a joke. I mean, I've been there once to visit one of their government agencies, trying to promote people to found a company in Estonia. And they just, they explained to me, we didn't really have, after USSR collapsed, we didn't really have the money to launch something old school.

Lieven (15m 49s):

So we made everything digital because we just couldn't afford it not to be digital. So they had a big headstart and now they're doing great. So launching a company, digital platform and hiring and relocation in Estonia is a success, I'm sure. If they executed, right. That will be a big one. They are only starting. I mean, they just got, how was it? How much was it? 1.2 million euros, something like that.

Joel (16m 14s):

20.23 million euros in pre-seed funding.

Lieven (16m 16s):

Presale was like, like pre-seed. It's like something is coming, but it's only the pre-phase good stress coming. It's so optimistic. The pre-seed. Okay. I strongly believe in firm recruitment. I strongly believe in recruiting of skilled workers and in digital platforms because shortage is structural. And as long as the salaries in Western countries will stay higher, skilled workers from other regions will be eager to join. So for longer periods, shorter periods, whatever, but they will come. So I think we need those workers and if they can provide them, it will be a hit! But that's just the startup and they have to prove. It's definitely a buy to me.

Joel (16m 53s):

Sounds like a buy to me, Chad, where are you?

Chad (16m 56s):

So Lieven I've heard Talon is gorgeous. Have you ever been there?

Lieven (16m 58s):

Yeah. And I love it.

Chad (16m 59s):

You love it? Yeah. That's that's on my short list. That's on my short list. Gotta check it out. But yeah, Estonia's a tech hub, and right now it seems like they have about 2000 workers in their database from Estonia, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark. Doesn't seem like a lot, but it seems like a good seed, pre-seed of, of talent. The question is will construction workers trust an app? And will Werk, have enough cash to reach them? There are pockets of construction workers all over the EU, but trying to market to 20 plus countries could be pretty costly. So the big question is, will they be able to hit those pockets?

Chad (17m 41s):

And you know, I'm not even sure are there like unions that they could work with to be able to get more workers into their database? Do you know, Lieven?

Lieven (17m 50s):

The only thing I know is that the Baltics aren't really into unions. They don't really like them.

Chad (17m 55s):

So I'm going to go with no.

Lieven (17m 59s):

Probably no.

Chad (17m 59s):

That makes it harder for them to actually reach out and get these individuals into, especially if you don't have like a specific one organization to work with. So that makes it a lot harder. They're also "Werking", working on developing a testing, relocation functionality, automating the visa and residents permit process, opening up bank accounts, flights, accommodations. So it looks like they're trying to be like this full service platform, which I think is a hundred percent necessary, especially for individuals in these types of jobs. So for me, it is incredibly early, obviously pre-stage, or pre-seed stage early, but I'm a big fan.

Chad (18m 41s):

I'm buying this.

Joel (18m 42s):

Chad, what do you think about their testing social feature that allows workers to talk to one another, receive advice, ask questions and all that good shit. I mean, that sounds like an additional asset, the sort of danced around, but in terms of unions and getting these people on the same page, I think that's going to be really interesting to watch. Yeah. This Facebook for construction workers, I guess, will be interested in.

Chad (19m 4s):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it gets to that, I almost think there, there will be communities, which I think is incredibly smart. And if they could build those communities, I almost see this as like a mini Jobcase, where they have communities that are all set up and they can, they can connect with each other and they can get those tips. And I think if they can, if they can model off of something like Jobcase, then, then they might have a winner, but still they have to hit those individuals. And if there's, if there aren't any big unions or big established organizations where you can hit many of them, it's going to be a lot of marketing money.

Lieven (19m 39s):

It would be the case. But I think staying away from the unions in this case is probably a good idea. I think. And if there are some countries in Europe, practice might succeed, it will be in those countries. Penetration of broadband has been extremely high in those regions forever. So it does people are, if everywhere, if anywhere it would be there. If the labor workers are going to use internet, that will be derived are going to use apps that will be there. So it could be a nice start, young people wherever they are. I mean, they've grown up with this kind of app. So if they're into construction or into anything else, they know it's, I don't think that will be a problem getting to know it that's something else. But if you offer a better, bigger salary, people will talk about it, send it to a Werk.

Joel (20m 21s):

It sounds like the young people are at the gaming events.

Lieven (20m 25s):

Do you know in the Baltic states there it's even bigger than in Western Europe. I mean, Ukraine, the Baltics, even Russia. I mean, e-sports is bigger than in the west. There you go. So yes, for them it should be definitely a good idea.

Joel (20m 38s):

All right. We got two buys. Let's see what I got to say about this stuff. All right guys, newsflash Europe's old. Shit needs to be repaired. Shit needs to be fixed. Shit needs to be built and they need immigrants to do it just like America does. So construction is a good place to be. A recession in a war zone isn't great for the short term of this business, but longterm Europe is going to need a lot of skilled immigrants and Ukraine is going to have to be rebuilt. The seed round should get work to the promise land in time for boats and hoes.

Joel (21m 19s):

I also am a buy on Twerk, I mean Werk. Let's get a startup number two. Should we call it who's or woes?

Chad (21m 28s):

I like, woes.

Joel (21m 30s):

You like woes all right. It's spelled W H O Z. I kinda like Who's better. But anyway,

Lieven (21m 43s):


Joel (21m 44s):

Say goodbye to those Microsystems.

Lieven (21m 45s):

That's Werk and Whoz

Joel (21m 48s):

Werk and Whoz. Oh, why does our show always go into the gutter? I don't get it? Alright Whoz, Whose, Was whatever you want to call it say goodbye to those Microsoft Excel headaches, Whoz, whose or hoes, a Paris based staffing, talent and project portfolio management solutions provider has raised 25 million euros in funding led by PSG equity. The funding will facilitate the startups present in the French market while expanding into new regions like the US, Germany, the UK and India. Founded in 2016, the SAAS platform promises to address the entire staffing process, including skills mapping team-building, management, planning, and identification skills, gap trends in order to adjust recruitment and training plans.

Joel (22m 33s):

So who's buying or selling Whoz? Hoes? Or woes?

Lieven (22m 35s):

I read their press release because I didn't really know them. They raised 25 million so they should be doing something right. But in the press release, there was one sentence which was in bold and underlined. So I scanned the text and I thought, okay, this must be important. So I'm going to read the sentence "In today's environment of a scarcity of talent, staffing as a driver of competitive advantage for companies." And I read it five times and I still couldn't get why they put it in bold and underlined it. So I gave up, I don't think I've read the whole thing and I couldn't find anything actually. Exactly knew. They claim to be very judged digitalizing Europe. And they've been in the business since 2016, which they claim is very long.

Lieven (23m 16s):

But I mean, we are longer in the business and we are not old. I just couldn't get it. I mean, they talk a lot and they tell a lot, but they didn't tell me anything new and I still don't exactly get what they're doing, but maybe you got it. It was written in English so maybe I got lost in translation. If it's my money, I won't by it. Maybe with someone else. That's right. But no, I wont.

Joel (23m 41s):

All right. That's a sell from Lieven. Chad, what you got?

Chad (23m 45s):

First off. I think it's incredibly smart to target staffing companies, as we've said, many times on this podcast, recruiting is a business for staffing and RPO where recruiting is a job for talent acquisition. The difference is understanding the bottom line, margins, EBITDA, those types of things. Most staffing companies need a future forward operating system. Not all of them are like yours Lieven, because they don't have it today. Most of the staffing companies that I've actually spoken with between the US and EU are happy with the big margins that they currently have, but that's by keeping things pretty much the same as it ever was.

Chad (24m 25s):

They are using tech for things like outreach, posting, programmatic, those types of things, but they're not doing the automation pieces. They're not really focusing on management inefficiencies internally. So I think this could be a very progressive way for them to go after many staffing organizations to help them future-proof and recession-proof themselves. If they can get it done, they can pretty much be as I'd said before, with JobandTalent, they could prospectively be that backend operating system that most staffing organizations focus on instead of having to go through layoffs all the times, they hit a recession. So it's a buy for me.

Joel (25m 7s):

One buy, one sell.

Lieven (25m 8s):

All right. So you believe you believe staffing is a driver of competitive advantage for companies?

Chad (25m 13s):