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Leapsome, Coming to America


"Coming to America" isn't just a great Eddie Murphy movie from the '80s. It's also the rallying cry for many European companies looking to grow their bottom lines in the world's biggest economy. Enter Leapsome out of Germany who is the latest industry player to make their way across the Atlantic, opening up and promising to hire well over 50 people in New York City this year alone. As you expect, there's very little agreement with the move being a good one or not. Then the boys play a little Buy-or-Sell with iFeel, Vektor and Surfboard. (Spoiler alert: There's almost no agreement by anyone.) Closing the show is a discussion on a recent court decision out of France that ruled companies can't fire their workers for failing to be sufficiently "fun." Well, that's no fun! This episode, however?


Loaded with fun! Enjoy!


TRANSCRIPTION SPONSORED BY: Disability Solutions partners with our clients to build best-in-class inclusion programs and reach qualified, talented individuals with disabilities of every skill, education, and experience level.


INTRO (6s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.


Joel (25s):

Oh, yeah. Apple is expanding self repair program to most of Europe and the UK. It's about time Europe did some shit on their own. Top of the morning kids. This is the Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe. I'm your co-host Joel "self-serve since 1984" Cheesman.


Chad (44s):

I'm Chad "upset in the making" Sowash.


Lieven (48s):

I'm Lieven "soon to be an AI powered poet" Van Nieuwenhuyze.


Joel (52s):

And on this episode, Leapsome's gets some big Apple, buy or sell, and France is no fun. Let's do this.


sfx (1m 1s):

Europe has a bunch of countries in it.


Joel (1m 5s):

What's up, boys?


Chad (1m 6s):

Oh, baby. My liver is killing me from all this World Cup soccer. I never thought, oh, I'm sorry. World Cup football. I never thought a sport would hurt my liver so bad.


Joel (1m 18s):

By the way. You can't see it, but Lieven is like full on Europe today. The black turtleneck, like the suave hair. It's, it's, I'm very in the mood for this podcast now. Very in the mood. Guys, let's just, I need some Duvel, some dictatorship in 1930s. I don't know.


Chad (1m 37s):

Okay, back to World Cup Soccer. Oh my God.


Joel (1m 39s):

Yeah. So we got France and England.


Chad (1m 41s):

Jesus.


Joel (1m 41s):

That's gonna be a fun matchup, right? What else we got that's coming up?


Chad (1m 45s):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, well, first and foremost, let's get through this real quick. I can't believe that first and foremost Canada makes it, but Belgium is only one spot better than Canada. They went into like the last FIFA as the number one team. They were highly ranked this time, but they didn't even make it out of the groups. The USA. Say this again The USA actually made it outta their groups. We got beat by the Dutch, but still, but still.


Joel (2m 14s):

By the way, my, wife here who's Canadian, I think a lot of listeners know that said one of the most Canadian things ever after Canada was bounced. She said, at least we scored a goal. So we did something good. Like that's one of the most Canadian things I've ever heard in my life. At least we scored a goal.


Chad (2m 33s):

That is awesome. Well, I'm gonna keep everything rolling with my first shout out, which is to Germany and to a couple of my German friends, Arno and Stefan. They bet me that Germany would actually make it further than Portugal in the World Cup. Much appreciated, gents. I'm going to be enjoying a lot of alcohol on them again. World Cup. Oh my god, alcohol. Let's try that again in four years. I love it.


Joel (3m 1s):

The Germans really disappointed, you talk about the Belgiums, or the Belgium, I mean Germany, I guess Italy not even getting in was the worst of the European countries. But


Chad (3m 11s):

That was bad. That was pretty bad.


Joel (3m 13s):

That was bad. Well, my shout out to get back to what this podcast should be about and that is work. I'm gonna give a shout out to the four day work week. In case you missed it a hundred UK companies have signed up for a permanent four day work week for all their employees with no loss of pay as part of a larger study by some major universities. The hundred companies employ only 2,600 people, a tiny fraction of UK's working population. But it may be enough to spark a bigger trend. Here are some of the results from this survey: A four day work week led to higher sales to the tune of 8% higher by the way. Lower burnout rates and improved attendance with employees using less sick or personal time per month.


Joel (3m 59s):

As someone who remembers when Casual Friday was cool. I expect this will be a trend for smaller companies to recruit better talent at first and then something bigger companies adopt to compete as well. I can hear China now saying, enjoy your three day weekends. You entitled bunch of Western sissies. Shout out to the four day work week.


Chad (4m 20s):

When they're not in Covid lockdown. For God's sakes.


Joel (4m 23s):

Jesus. Yeah. That's insane. That's insane.


Chad (4m 27s):

It is fucking crazy. The shot. They've got it. I mean they've got it. I don't know what the problem is?


Joel (4m 31s):

Anyway. They don't have the shot. It's part of the problem. They don't wanna buy it from us.


Chad (4m 35s):

They have a shot. Yeah, they have a shot. It's just maybe they got the Sputnik from Russia. Fuck. I don't know.


Joel (4m 42s):

It's gonna hit 'em eventually, they're just postponing the inevitable. I don't Anyway. China.


Chad (4m 47s):

I dunno Lieven. You got a shout out?


Lieven (4m 50s):

Yep. My shoutout goes to Marc Thibaut who's a colleague from Bain Capital. So their new colleagues, they're actually our owners and he just posted


Joel (4m 60s):

Sugar Daddy.


Lieven (5m 1s):

Yeah, he's a sugar daddy indeed and Mark just posted and I was pretty impressed ~ a poem. He didn't write himself, but he had open ai write a poem for him about House of HR. And that's not really impressive. But the poem actually is, it just puts House of HR into the better version of open ai. And the tool went all by itself looking for information about House of HR and wrote a poem about it, which doesn't even suck that hard. So I'm going to write to.


Chad (5m 34s):

It doesn't suck that hard.


Lieven (5m 35s):

If you ask Open Eye to write a poem, you think it'll suck, but the redness more or less, okay. And it makes sense to a certain extent. So I'll just give you two verse and then you can comment on it. So the only thing we said to Open Eye was write a poem about House of HR. And it came up with this, "A House of HR, a magical place. It's a bit of Christmas parade, you know, at House of HR, a magical place where all the special people race to work each day providing care with a knowledge of all employee affairs. A House of HR, a beacon of light gathering data and shining bright, making sure, et cetera, et cetera. And so it goes on. But actually it did figure out, I think it's visited our website or something.


Lieven (6m 16s):

What we were doing, what our business was, that it was about people, about taking care and this I think could offer opportunities for writing vacancies. It could make our people's life if they could write a poem about each vacancy.


Joel (6m 30s):

Can we put in there, don't suck so hard and see what comes out of the ai?


Chad (6m 36s):

Yeah,


Lieven (6m 36s):

I think you're


Chad (6m 37s):

Gonna get some pictures.


Joel (6m 38s):

It won't be used for job descriptions. It'll be used for stupid shit like that.


Lieven (6m 42s):

Probably.


Chad (6m 43s):

Here's a message that I received from Martin Lentz, the CEO over at Jobi Co. He actually asked open AI the question, who is smarter Chad Sowash or Joel Cheesman? And this is what came out. "Both Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are renowned leaders in the HR recruitment industry. And they both bring a unique perspective and expertise to their field. That is impossible to say who is smarter as the two offer different perspectives and skill sets that are beneficial in their own right." That was written by open ai, which just proves it's bullshit cause I'm much smarter than Cheesman is.


Lieven (7m 24s):

But you, you to care, not to mention my name.


Chad (7m 26s):

No, we're not gonna do that. Cause we already know it's gonna say


Joel (7m 28s):

We would but we don't know how to spell it. We'd have to look it up. We can't.


Lieven (7m 35s):

Which answers the question. Of course. Who of the three the most, the most intelligent one


Chad (7m 42s):

Topics! It would kick out cause it'd say there's too many vowels.


Joel (7m 47s):

This show's going off the rails quickly. Let's try to get some news here. Let's talk about Leapsome. After taking on funding $60 million to be precise for the first time in over eight years of operation, Berlin based people enablement platform, Leapsome has fully committed to its promise to accelerate its US market presence with the opening of a dedicated office in good old New York City. Leapsome is stepping up. Its American market presence with a 25 person staff all working out of a Madison Avenue office, most likely WeWork. And plans to increase that number to 50 plus people by the end of this year.


Joel (8m 31s):

Recession be damned. Chad America remains the land of boats and hoses for many global companies. What's your take on Leapsome coming to America or just companies in our space generally coming to us and end?


Chad (8m 45s):

Leapsome, I don't even know them. You're welcome. You're welcome. I'll be here all week. Try the lamb chop. This is a great series, I mean, for an HR star startup, for goodness sakes, and especially an HR startup in Germany. So kudos to Leapsome's leadership team for getting them cash and starting what they said in the article would be a "hiring spree". The current staff is at 25 and they have over 50 positions listed on their career site. So I dug into 'em and I want to break it down into three fairly simple points. Number one, stop the spree.


Chad (9m 26s):

We're seeing a ton of vendors already cut away the bloat right now because they received cash and then they went into an hiring spree just like this. So my advice is, slow the fuck down, grow responsibly. Look at what's happening around you so that you're not cutting 40% of your staff in 12 months. Number two, win at home first. Here's a quote directly from the article. The US software market is the largest in the world, and companies here are already focusing more on the potential of the people enablement category than in the European market end" quote. So, okay, if that's truly the case, then why the fuck did you start a people enablement company in Germany in the first place?


Chad (10m 10s):

That just screams no due diligence. I know vendors are going to continue coming to American shores. I totally get that because they're gold in them are hills, but most of these companies weren't even prepared to win in Europe. So why in the hell do they think they even have a chance in the US? Number three, get a bigger boat. Lattice has about $330 million in funding outta San Francisco. They're already in the US. BetterWorks 130, around $130 million in funding outta Menlo Park, California already in the US. 15five $94 million in funding. San Francisco, California already in the US.


Chad (10m 50s):

Now CultureAmp out of Melbourne, Australia they got a bigger boat at around $260 million. I love to see companies get funding, but I hate to see shitty go to market in place. I hope Leapsome actually find some industry experts to help guide them on this journey because just getting an office at a WeWork in New York does not account for actually invading the US.


Joel (11m 15s):

So seeing Lieven in a black turtleneck and talking about German companies makes me think of sprockets, which makes it hard to talk about anything business related. But


Lieven (11m 25s):

It's actually navy blue. It's not black, it's navy blue.


Joel (11m 29s):

It looks black on my tiny screen, Lieven.


Chad (11m 35s):

Touch my monkey.


Joel (11m 36s):

Touch my monkey my Leapsome there's good news here. The HR tech market globally is expected to grow from $24 billion in 2021 to 35, roughly $35 and a half billion by 2038. And it's clear that having boots on the ground and one of the biggest economies on the planet ie the USA is a nice thing to not even think about, but a nice thing to do. And it's something that a lot of investors are pushing companies to go into, whether they like it or not or whether they are ready or or not. Leapsome already has 20% of its revenues from the USA, so it makes sense that you would try to grow that exponentially.


Joel (12m 22s):

However, here's the bad news. The US is an unforgiving and challenging market. Many companies have come here and died or felt the wrath of America. The people part I think is the toughest. It's easy to think, well we have this cool software, it goes into multiple languages, like we can easily get some people in the US and make it work. Unfortunately the people is the hard part. We've seen companies like, HiBob and Vonq come here and seen staff shakeups shortly after coming over. We've seen HireEasy a company mainly outta China, hire the right people in this case Shannon Pritchett, to be the face of the organization and grow accordingly.


Joel (13m 4s):

So getting the people thing right is really, really challenging, but not a slam dunk. Throwing the fact that New York is a very expensive city, the looming recession and this venture by Leapsome becomes that much tougher. So I say good luck. I agree with Chad. You're gonna need a bigger boat. Go step by step. Try to grow organically, but don't get too excited now that you're here in America. Good luck to you. Leapsome you're going to need it. Lieven.


Lieven (13m 34s):

Well, whatever brings those expensive dollars to Europe is a good thing, I think. So if Leapsome is opening an office in New York, it was and it raises some money there and they transfer it back to Europe, I'm all pro. But as you both mentioned, probably those


Joel (13m 53s):

Strong dollars are good for Europe, aren't they?


Lieven (13m 55s):

Yeah, if need them, we need them. So bring 'em on, bring on. Come to Brugges and spend them all was thinking about, okay, so 500 out of their 1,500 customers are US based already. So I think it's about time they opened up their, then again, if they could have 500 customers without having an office, why doing the efforts? Why opening in the end? But like you say, New York is expensive and at different levels. A friend of mine called me last week, very proud. He's opening his first office in New York and he has got a growth agency with, I dunno, 50 people working. So a small agency and his opening in New York, because he had one major client who only could work with him if he had an office in New York or in the United States at least.


Lieven (14m 42s):

It's about legislation. I'm not sure what, maybe it's a company policy, but they needed an office, if they wanted to have a long term collaboration. And then he said, okay, but we, so the friend of mine said we got a grant from Belgium government for 70,000 euros to get us started in New York. So 70,000 euros is like a few months only opening one office. But it's a good idea. Personally, I don't like those grants because it's my tax spends money of taxpayers money going to support those little startups. If I wanted to support a startup, I'd buy some shares and then I'd got shares. No, I don't even have shares. But I don't think government should be supporting startups in that way.


Lieven (15m 26s):

They could promote. You get my point? So I think Leapome brings some money.


Joel (15m 30s):

The the good news is there's a lot of available commercial real estate all over the country. So I guess if you are gonna look to come to America, it is a good market for commercial real estate. Lot of opening.


Chad (15m 42s):

It just seems like a mirage though. We're gonna plan our stake in a WeWork and


Joel (15m 47s):

Very alluring.


Chad (15m 48s):

To me it doesn't feel real. Not, and again, you know, I go back to if you started the company in Europe and you can't even, and you can't even get a foothold and beyond Germany, what makes you think that you can come to the US and do it? I mean, 20% is great, but if you take a look at just the revenue that they get, I think the mrr just to get started, it starts at eight bucks, right? So it's kind of like a freemium plus model, let's just say that.


Joel (16m 15s):

I mean, speaking of German companies, we love Personio.


Chad (16m 17s):

Yeah.


Joel (16m 18s):

And part of the reason why we love Personio is they're laser focused in the European market and looking at others like, HiBob. And I mean, we'll see how it plays out. Again, America is very alluring, a lot of money here, a lot of sexy. Companies are really attracted to that and investors are even more attracted to that. I'm guessing a lot of investors want some office space in the US from investments that they make overseas as well.


Chad (16m 40s):

Well. Well, I'll give you a great example. This morning I was talking to a CEO in our space who they have received funding in the last year or so, and in the release they said that they were gonna come to the US and I asked them about, okay, when you coming, how's it going? And he is like, I have no clue just yet, right? So I mean it's like this opportunity to be able to get more cash and/or the PE firms are like, well you know what, we're just gonna throw the US in there as kind of like, you know, and into the grab bag. So it's like everybody's saying it, whether it's actually real or not. Again, I don't think a WeWork is real, but if it's actually real, I guess we'll find out.


Joel (17m 22s):

Yeah, it's tough. And even our friends at RecFest coming to America, it's gonna be fun to watch how they spin their conference to an American audience.


Chad (17m 34s):

I can't wait.


Joel (17m 35s):

I can't wait either, frankly. But it's not my money. All right guys, how about a little buy or sell? One of our favorite games for our listeners that don't know how this works.


Chad (17m 44s):

YeS!


Joel (17m 45s):

We talk about three companies that have recently gotten funding. I read a quick summary and then all the boys chime in on whether it's a buy or sell from their breadth of experience in the recruitment market. Let's play a little buy or sell, shall we? All right, let's talk about Surfboard, London-based Surfboard, because when you think of surfing, you think of London, don't you? Surfboard is raised $5 million in a seed round. The startup is a planning tool intended for customer service teams. Surfboard says, quote, "creating happy and healthy working environments result in great customer service"


Joel (18m 28s):

end quote. Founded in 2021, the company intends to use the funds to accelerate product development, grow its team and deepen its integrations. They employ 20 people. Chad, are you ready to hang 10 or is Surfboard destined to crash into the competitive waves of HR tech?


Chad (18m 48s):

4.8 million euros in seed funding is pretty damned respectable, especially in Europe. I love the focus on solutioning for a huge industry like customer service. One of the biggest industries in the world. If you can get this right, then you can iterate into other closely related industries like sales and others like that. And a great example is Salesforce wasn't just a sales platform. It iterated into customer service and marketing. So if you get this right, and again, you're focusing on already a big industry, so your tam's bigger than than any other niche.


Chad (19m 28s):

The ability to tie together different systems and then provide transparency to the management team is key, for managing remote workers. Understanding the impact of new products that are rolled out, and even planning for what size the team might need to be in about 12 months. I think this is smart all the way around. It's definitely a buy for me.


Joel (19m 53s):

Very nice, very nice. Well, I don't know much about the intricacies of keeping a customer service team happy, but I know it's important and I know it also must be challenging. I like that Surfboard is laser focused on that single problem. I like that customer service impacts businesses all over the world. However, here's what I don't like about Surfboard. It smells a lot like a commodity in something any platform could add if they wanted to. The pricing is really low in my opinion, and I think the commodity aspect will only drive prices for this product even lower. Also, technology is getting better about addressing customer needs, which means fewer customer service human beings because, well tech can handle it, making this, in my opinion, a low growth opportunity.


Joel (20m 41s):

The best they can out for is some platform buying them out. All I need in life are some tasty waves and a cool buzz. But I'm a sell on Surfboard. All right, Lieven. Tiebreaker.


Lieven (20m 57s):

I am in a buying mood, but after looking at Surfboards, to me, it's just another hybrid's remote work planning platform, like we've seen so many past year. They're founded in 2021 and they're so 2021. I mean, we are beyond that now. They got 4 million, which is a lot. You're right! Seed funding stage, that's a lot. But London based, so they'll spend it in six months on own rent and partying. So I think I sell, but if they move to Scotland, I might reconsider.


Joel (21m 37s):

Nice, nice. All right, let's get the feels with Madrid based ifeel, an emotional wellbeing platform for companies. They announced a 10 million Euro series A round that brings their total to 18 million euros founded in 2017. I feel aims to address the much needed gap in the market as employers look to address the emotional wellbeing of their employees through their web or app, available on iOS and Android. They'll use the funds to expand the business into new markets, introduce new products, and increase sales capabilities. Chad is, ifeel a warm hug or a cold shoulder?


Chad (22m 18s):

Given me the feels. So the pandemic allowed companies like this to launch and gain quick traction in a more remote world with even more detached leaders, it's much harder to identify when employees are going to, when they're going through a hard time, when they need help. So offering access to a network of therapists is brilliant and probably one of the best quote unquote "take care of people". Easy buttons for any HR leader in today's market. Just an easy buy. ifeel works in 23, 3 countries, 21 languages, and has a team of more than 600 psychologists, who specialize in 30 different areas of of therapy.


Chad (23m 1s):

The pricing looks affordable. And this also helps therapists scale their time and business as well. So growing the network should be easy. I'm not sure of the pricing model, but this could be pretty amazing MRR business that caters to almost like seats in some cases? They have 800,000 users. I don't know if that's like, or if that's just like over the year, but with those types of numbers, I see a large healthcare system coming in for a big payday in the next 12 to 18 months. So for me, this is an easy, easy buy.


Joel (23m 38s):

Man. Being in Europe is making you really soft, Sowash. All right, so you mentioned some of the numbers, 800,000 users, which to me sounds just a little bit suspect. 800 hundred thousand users anyway. 600 therapists, 23 countries, 21 languages. It sounds really hard not to love this company, which obviously my co-host loves this company. The question for me, however, is where is this trend of employee wellbeing going? With Covid Mental Health went to the front of the class because people were stressed as hell at home, day caring their kids and dealing with all the shit that Covid brought with us.


Joel (24m 23s):

But with offices opening back layoffs and hiring freezes a plenty, is the need still going to be there in mass for employee wellbeing? I say no. Companies are going to cut and warm and fuzzy tech like this is gonna be the first tech that gets cut from budgets. And I don't think it's coming back for many employers. I think it's a luxury that many are gonna pass on. It's too niche for me. I'm not feeling the feel. I'm a sell on Madrid based ifeel.


Chad (24m 57s):

You should be Joel Bah Humbug Cheesman is what it should be.


Joel (25m 2s):

And you say that like it's a bad thing. All right, Lieven break this tie.


Lieven (25m 6s):

Okay, Now the problem is only companies actually care about people will use a platform like that. And the companies who really need a platform like this, they just don't care. So they won't invest in it. So they've got a business problem there. And I think, I wonder if I'm gonna make sure this is a decent investment, I have to ask myself, are there enough companies who care? And I'm really afraid, no. So the business probably is rather small, like you say, it's a niche. And also, I've got a problem with names. I'm very sensitive to names, company names, and ifeel, I mean, if you want to troll a company? A company like ifeel it's so easy to troll, let's say ifeel like shits, ifeel miserable.


Lieven (25m 49s):

ifeel? It's so easy. So they always say there's no such thing as bad advertisement, but there is, believe me, I don't think I would invest my own money in it, maybe someone else's.


Chad (26m 2s):

So as just in the US alone, mental health is over $200 billion industry. That's how niche it is. Lieven, just to let you know.


Joel (26m 11s):

Getting defensive, my my.


Chad (26m 12s):

I just did little research, wanna make sure that these people, ifeel. ifeel.


Joel (26m 20s):

I know, I know, I know. I right.


Lieven (26m 23s):

ifeel your pain.


Joel (26m 24s):

I love a spirited buy or sell, which brings us to our third and final company. What's your Vector? Victor London based Vector has raised 2 million pounds in a pre round. Indeed, co-founder Paul Forrester is an investor found in 2021 by husband and wife team, Anna Bull de Cova and Victor Bull Decove. I don't know why one has an A at the end and one doesn't. I don't know. Vector provides a mentorship platform, which aims to enable people to grow in their career that they're passionate about across skills like engineering, design, product, et cetera.


Joel (27m 3s):

The company intends to use the funds to accelerate growth and expand operations. Chad, is this vector of victory for mentorship platforms or is it destined for the agony of defeat?


Chad (27m 16s):

People are getting money, man. I mean, 2.5 million in pre seed funding. I think we used to call that angel funding. Fuck, I don't know. I've been a part of mentorship platforms before and in theory they sound great, but in a day to day scenario, they just fall flat. Why? Because they are not generally connected to just a just ad water type of source of mentors. For example, if you have a community like GitHub and then you start a mentoring platform on top as an engagement layer, it it makes more sense because the community of users are already there, obviously the platform's there.


Chad (27m 58s):

So it just makes sense. So adding mentorship flows easily, but starting a standalone mentorship platform just doesn't make any sense because people who register, if you're lucky, if they'll register, they never come back. So for me, and again, from my experience in using these standalone platforms, it's gotta be a sell for me.


sfx (28m 21s):

Boo, boo.


Joel (28m 21s):

Interesting. All right. Okay. Boomer has been a popular put down for the past few years, but there are a lot of mature and educated people around the world who are going to be looking for something to do with all their knowledge that they've accumulated throughout life and services like Vector are primed to take advantage of this demographic shift. They're gonna help these folks make some money in retirement, ultimately. Have a ton of generation Zs and Alphas who are going to need some guidance and you have a recipe for success on a lot of different levels to me.


Joel (29m 2s):

Think of this as Tinder, bringing old folks with experience and young people with no knowledge together in a happy marriage. There will likely be a lot of competition in this space, but Vector is off to a great start, which is for my Money Vector bringing old folks and young folks together is a buy. Break the tie Lieven.


Lieven (29m 23s):

I think you have just too much money, if you wanna buy it all. I checked our website and actually I liked our website, but I just couldn't figure out how their business model works. If you look at our site, you can't find anything about who is going to pay who, how are we going to make money? So maybe I missed it, but then again, if I miss it, many people will. But that's raising some dots for me. And as Chad said, I've been also mentor on some of those mentoring platforms and after a few times it gets annoying because basically all you got is ambitious people asking the same questions. Hi, I want to get a raise.


Lieven (30m 4s):

What should I do to get a raise? And don't tell me I need to work hard and don't tell me I need to learn something. I don't have the time. I was just going to suggest work harder and learn something. But that's what I don't wanna do. And then my mentoringship stopped. So I think this could work if LinkedIn would that a mentoring component at our website that that could be something. Maybe if the people from Vector are listening, I'm sure they are. Just contact me and let me know how your business model works because I couldn't find it.


Joel (30m 44s):

Are you a buy or sell? Dammit.


Lieven (30m 46s):

Yeah. Yeah. Sell.


Joel (30m 47s):

Okay,


Lieven (30m 48s):

Sell. Sell.


Joel (30m 48s):

All right. Who's ready for fun?


Lieven (30m 50s):

Yay. Fun!


Chad (30m 50s):

Everybody. Except well, unless you're in France. Unless you're in France.


Joel (30m 53s):

By the way, buy or sell is now over everybody. That was spirited. I don't know if we've ever had like three tiebreakers in a row. That was fun. Or anyway, more news from the world of recruiting. A French court has ruled that companies cannot fire their workers for failing to be sufficiently "fun". The ruling comes after a man referred to as Mr. T, I try, I Pity The Fool was fired from the Paris consultancy firm, Cubic Partners in 2015 for refusing to participate in after work drinks and team building activities.


Joel (31m 38s):

Fun values included regulatory, obligatory social events that culminated in excessive alcoholism, encouraged by colleagues who made very large quantities of alcohol available, as well as practices pushed by colleagues involved involving promiscuity, bullying, and incitement to various excesses. This sounds like the best employment branding message of all time. Maybe it's just me. Anyway, the court ordered Cubic Partners to pay Mr T a whopping 3000 euros for his troubles. Chad, you like fun values? What's your take on this story out of France?


Chad (32m 19s):

Fun values including simulation of sexual acts and the obligation to share a bed with a colleague. Yeah, the court also found that because Mr. T's lack of participation in these fun values types of events actually got him a critical behavior reason cited for his dismissal. This is more hazing, I think, than it is fun. I could be wrong.


Joel (32m 43s):

I thought it was a CareerBuilder sales meeting in Cabo when I first read it that escalated quickly. Lieven, what's your take?


Lieven (32m 56s):

They were damn right to fire him but, I think. For 4,000 Euros, I think good rids, no fun at all.


Joel (33m 5s):

You know the, the real Mr. T played B. A. Baracus on the A team which stood for bad attitude, which is what this Mr. T suffers from as well. We out.


Chad and Lieven (33m 21s):

We out. We out.


OUTRO (34m 8s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.

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