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Paradox Crowning, PageUp Selling & Jobiqo Evolving



This week on "Live from Transform," we're broadcasting straight from the heart of Las Vegas, bringing you the most sizzling updates from the business and work sector. Expect nothing less than the hottest of hot news!

First up, we delve into Paradox's latest move – appointing a brand-new CEO. This change at the top has the industry buzzing, and we're here to analyze what this means for the company's future direction.


Then, we're going TMZ-style, uncovering a high-profile industry veteran caught in an unexpected situation Down Under. Rumors are swirling about a potential acquisition in the works, and we've got the inside scoop that's heating up the business world.


But that's not all! We're also talking about Veritone's latest strategic play, joining forces with one of the largest job board networks globally. This partnership could reshape the landscape of job seeking and recruitment, and we're breaking down all the implications.


If these fiery topics don't catch your interest, you've got to ask yourself – why are you even listening? Tune in for an episode packed with insights, intrigue, and insider info from the world of work. It's all happening right here, live from Transform in Las Vegas!


TRANSCRIPTION


Intro: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HRs most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel: Oh, yeah. Because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, so don't listen to a damn thing Chad says...

Chad: Lies. Lies.

Joel: On this podcast. What's up boys and girls? You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel mind Freak Cheeseman.

Chad: And I'm Chad, not hungover, believe that shit, Sowash.

Joel: And on this week's show paradox gets a new head, Finnegan Begin again, and Veritone Tony Tony has done it again. Let's do this.

Chad: Feels good. Emotional damage.

Joel: All right, Chad. We are live from Las Vegas at the Transform Conference. I'm in day five. You are in day two I believe.

Chad: Yes, yes.

Joel: I'm probably showing a little more wear and tear than you at this point.

Chad: God I hope so. Yes.

Joel: But, yes. Good times last night. Good times last night.

Chad: Amazing times.

Joel: I had the giggles, apparently.

Chad: Oh my God. Okay. We're just going to go right into this. So, literally, I gave Cheeseman a 5 mg gummy. Yes. Just five.

Joel: Lies.

Chad: He was...

Joel: At least 20 was in that thing.

Chad: And shout out to Workvivo because we went to the sphere.

Joel: Oh, yeah.

Chad: They hooked us up with sweet tickets. So we're in a suite, Joel is right into his gummy. And at the end of it, I mean, first and foremost, it was an amazing experience. Thank you Workvivo. They're owned by Zoom.

Joel: Yes.

Chad: Which you forgot because you were on a gummy.

Joel: I had forgotten, yeah.

Chad: The CIO of Zoom. The CIO of Zoom comes in. Amazing dude. He starts talking about different people that they're working with and he says, oh yeah, and then we also had an event with Tony Robbins and you said what?

Joel: Did you say Kenny Loggins?

[laughter]

Joel: And then you said...

Chad: I said danger zone and then you couldn't stop laughing.

Joel: Oh my God. Check it. You're in the danger zone, my man. And I just lost it.

Chad: You were so high. It was hilarious. But the event, how was it? Because you were high and I mean that could set some people into vertigo.

Joel: Yeah. Think IMAX on steroids.

Chad: Oh, it's amazing.

Joel: If you're watching something.

Chad: I fucking love it.

Joel: And you get air in your face. The chairs shake when you're falling into a pit or something.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Mind blowing. I mean, that part was really cool. I was transfixed and then, yeah, something snapped and I could not stop laughing man. It was awesome.

Chad: And then we went to go see a friend and videographer.

Joel: Yeah. Little Comedy.

Chad: Then go... A standup comedy. That was a good time.

Joel: That was a good show.

Chad: That was a great time.

Joel: Yes.

Chad: Ben did a good job. He did a really good job.

Joel: Yes. I am figuring out that I'm becoming a show guy, Chad, if we're extending this to Vegas...

Chad: A show guy. Okay.

Joel: So I made fun of the old people way back, that I go to a conference and of course I'm partying at whatever, I've got naked ladies in a pool at a hotel or whatever. And the old people would be like, "Oh, we're going to do a nice dinner. Go see a show." And I thought that was so lame. Now, I'm into it. I'm loving it. First night did a Cirque du Soleil show, I think the love show with Plum.

Chad: Yes. Yeah. Last time. Oh, that was amazing. Yeah.

Joel: Got me intrigued. And we did the mind freak.

Chad: Oh, did you?

Joel: Chris Angel. Oh, we did this thing.

Chad: Oh damn.

Joel: Carrot Top was in the audience.

Chad: Oh, Jesus. Jesus.

Joel: So every show has the chance to really drop an unexpected pleasure. Mine just happened to be Carrot Top.

Chad: Yes. Well, the first night that we were here I was sucking, because we were up early, we traveled. JobPixel had this amazing event where, it was, they took over a piece of the buffet here in the Wynn and you're like "Ah, it's a buffet." That is the buffet. That's not a, but that is... If you're going to any buffet, that's the buffet. I saw a guy sitting over by the crab legs. He should have just taken the plate of crab legs. 'Cause I mean, go figure, it's all you can eat. And that's all he was eating. High quality.

Joel: You know I've been known to like a good meal or two, Chad.

Chad: I do.

Joel: And even I was overwhelmed with the magnitude of the Wynn...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Buffet.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: So my hat's off to Mr. Crab legs who could not stop consuming the said crab legs, because that is a real athlete my friend.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Not all heroes...

Chad: No.

Joel: Wear capes.

Chad: No. And thanks again to Omar, JobPixel, that was amazing. Both of which we're advisors for but then we're here in Transform. I have never been to a show at the Wynn before, I don't believe. Have you?

Joel: I've never been at the Wynn before.

Chad: This is up... That's 'cause they wouldn't let you in.

Joel: Yeah, they shouldn't.

Chad: This is upscale. You had a badge this time, so they let you in.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: This is upscale. And it was funny because Julie on day one said every show should be at the Wynn.

Joel: She did say that. She did say that. It's all right as a show... I mean, as a hotel I'm sure it's great.

Chad: Yeah, it's nice.

Joel: It's all right as a show conference place.

Chad: I like it.

Joel: It's alright.

Chad: I do like Caesars Forum where...

Joel: Caesars? Maybelline day...

Chad: Unleash does their thing too.

Joel: Does a good job too.

Chad: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Vegas is a good spot. Coming here three times a year probably not what I want to do, but we'll make do. We were on stage yesterday, had three amazing practitioners. We have that show.

Joel: How did we get them?

Chad: Samara. Samara and Transform got us some amazing practitioners. We are going to have that actually go out as a podcast on its own. It was amazing time. We got an opportunity to talk brass tacks with three practitioners on stage and they weren't afraid.

Joel: Nope.

Intro: Which I love.

Joel: No. A great diverse. We had Panda, which is your Panda Express...

Chad: Joey.

Joel: Your fast Chinese food.

Chad: Joey.

Joel: We had Box Tech company, storage...

Chad: Jess. Yep. Jessica.

Joel: That was great. And then Hungryroot, kind of your hippie...

Chad: Uh-huh, Caroline.

Joel: Hippie trippy health food in a Box coming to your house.

Chad: Yes. Yes.

Joel: So we got a really great different views...

Chad: Diverse.

Joel: AI, DI automation.

Chad: Loved it.

Joel: We tried to tackle as many issues as we could in 45 minutes. And, yeah, we'll be releasing that soon. But that was fantastic. Yeah.

Chad: Whenever you get on stage, obviously, we bring on beer. It's the end of the day, we've got that happening. We both thought, at the end of the day we were like, "Nobody is going to be here. We're going to be talking to an empty crowd." Every fucking place was full.

Joel: It was full.

Chad: It was full.

Joel: It was full. It wasn't the biggest of areas. We weren't on...

Chad: Yeah, I know.

Joel: If you've been to these things. There's the keynotes...

Chad: We were the Expo hall. Yeah.

Joel: There's the keynote with 1000 chairs. We weren't there. But we were competing with Liquor. Okay? We were competing with all the exhibitors here. And that's not always easy. So I think that we held our own.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: We opened it up with Little Guns N' Roses, Welcome to the jungle. Kind of set the mood...

Chad: Oh, teaser, teaser.

Joel: Set the mood. You poured beer on a lot of the audience members from what I remember, had a little spillage.

Chad: I had a beer...

Joel: A little spillage on stage.

Chad: I needed a sippy cup, I needed a sippy cup.

Joel: But had a good time. So my question to you is...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: We go to a lot of shows. Where is Transform in the big scheme of things for you? Where do they compete? How are they different? Where are they better? Your take?

Chad: Well, I like to say that, first of all, I don't like to stack rank because they're so different. The shows are so different. It's kind of like RecFest is so much different than Unleash. And Transform so different than RecFest. There are a lot. I'm going to say probably 70% of the vendors that are here I have never fucking heard of.

Joel: Interesting.

Chad: 70, at least 70%.

Joel: Interesting.

Chad: A bulk. So they're obviously bringing in an entirely different crop of startups. So, again, I don't see this as better, worse, or anything. I see it as different. And especially when we're talking about the audience that they're hitting, a lot of high level practitioners. I actually had SVP of Pepsi stop me today. Ask me when she can be on the podcast. I'm like, "Are you kidding me?"

Joel: Oh, nice.

Chad: Yes. So...

Joel: Nice.

Chad: Yeah. Good stuff. Really good stuff.

Joel: Good stuff. I think you mentioned Unleash and we'll be at Unleash in Vegas again in May.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: They seem to be really competitive with HR tech, whether that's a mental thing or just by default but to me...

Chad: But I don't think they are. I don't think they are.

Joel: No. HR tech is an industry integration.

Chad: It's a vendor sausage fest.

Joel: Yeah. Don't go to HR tech thinking you're going to fill the funnel...

Chad: No.

Joel: And make a lot of sales.

Chad: It's...

Joel: To me...

Chad: Strategic alliances...

Joel: This Felt more Unleashy to me, more competitive.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: So if I'm Unleash, I'm looking at Transform a little more than HR tech as an up and coming competitor. We know ERE is trying to sort of reimagine their conferences...

Chad: They have investors who have booths here. Right?

Joel: Sure.

Chad: Yeah. I mean, and we should see more of that.

Joel: And on stage as well.

Chad: Yes. We should see more of that. And I know that Unleash is really hitting the investor and startup side of the house hard. So, yeah, I think, again, I think they're taking it at different angles which is cool...

Joel: Yes.

Chad: Because if they try to be the same, I mean, then it gets boring and you hear the Charlie Brown wah, wah, wah.

Joel: Yep. Yep. And likewise...

Chad: I see it different.

Joel: RecFest's.

Chad: Oh, fuck dude.

Joel: Their secret sauce is just nobody is like us.

Chad: No.

Joel: So hat's off.

Chad: Nobody is RecFest.

Joel: Hat's off to them.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Hat's off to them. All right, let's make a quick do of our announcements.

Chad: Let's do that.

Joel: Because we are live. It's typical.

Chad: Ben from BrightHire.

Joel: We're going to hold off on... Yes. Ben Sesser, CEO of BrightHire, just walked by. He's looking good. He's in all black. We're recording a live show so...

Chad: Get out of here Ben.

Joel: You are famous.

Chad: We're doing stuff, Jesus.

[laughter]

Joel: By the way, thanks to BrightHire, one of our newest sponsors of Firing Squad. That's right.

Chad: You guys love Firing Squad.

Joel: You Love Teddy. You love Teddy. You love Firing Squad. Now you'll learn to love BrightHire...

Chad: Our favorite country music star. Teddy Chestnut.

Joel: [chuckle] Chestnut.

Chad: Teddy Chestnut.

Joel: And food competitor.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: Food eating competitor. So we'll get to birthdays...

Chad: Next week.

Joel: Probably not next week, we'll be in...

Chad: Oh, that's right, Amsterdam.

Joel: We'll be in Europe. So it might be a couple of weeks. But shout out to Plum...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Our sponsor for the birthdays. Shout out to Textkernel sponsoring bourbon selection by both of us. Aspen Tech Labs.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: For beer and really excited new T-shirt design just approved. We'll be printing those up soon.

Chad: Oh, you're going to see it.

Joel: Erin E-R-I-N is our new sponsor for T-shirts. Very excited about that. Look for that. If you haven't signed up at chadcheese.com...

Chad: Sexy.

Joel: /free, you're not getting a T-shirt, you're not getting bourbon, you're not getting beer. You'll probably be the most avoided person at your next social event.

Chad: More than likely, yeah.

Joel: So, yeah, you got to go to chadcheese.com, click that free link, put in your information and who knows, a T-shirt and some booze just might show up at your door.

Chad: And you said Textkernel. We're going to see our friend Gerard Mulder.

Joel: Gerard. Yes.

Chad: Gerard Mulder in Amsterdam next week as we're going to the e-recruitment congress. Leaving, get ready, we expect Belgian beer, Belgian chalk, all of it my friend. I can't wait, dude.

Joel: Don't throw any Heineken or Amstel Light at my ass...

Chad: I'm so excited.

Joel: Don't even think about it. Gerard, love Gerard. He...

Chad: Oh, yes.

Joel: He's a gentleman technologist and he always drops wisdom and I feel much smarter...

Chad: He does.

Joel: At the end of it. So if you are going to be in Amsterdam or you are going to House of HR, make sure you say hi to us. Another quick announcement, we just dropped our data...

Chad: Toby.

Joel: Data podcast. Toby Dayton, CEO of LinkUp, gets information that the Wall Street guys are accessing.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: People are making money with this information.

Chad: He's the insider of insiders.

Joel: And you lucky listener, no cost whatsoever. Get to know...

Chad: YouTube.

Joel: The wisdom...

Chad: YouTube.

Joel: And the data of Toby Dayton. So you can only view this on YouTube. Go to youtube.com/@ChadCheese make sure you subscribe, share, like and watch.

Chad: Do it all. Do it all. Yeah.

Joel: And watch.

Chad: He's sharing charts and graphs and all that other fun stuff that really they don't translate well on the audio side. So go to YouTube look for Chad and Cheese podcast and listen and watch.

Joel: Yeah, and you don't have to be a genius. We dumb it down for the Chad and Cheese folks.

Chad: Well, it's got...

Joel: Mainly for us.

Chad: Mainly for us. Yeah.

Joel: But, yeah, you'll understand it, you'll digest it, you'll consume it...

Chad: We got to simplify it. Yes.

Joel: You'll love it. Your boss will think you're great and smart just like Chad and cheese. Shall we get to topics.

Chad: Topics.

Joel: That's Right baby. All right, big news out of the desert this week.

Chad: What?

Joel: Paradox has promoted friend of the show Adam Godson to CEO with founder Aaron Matos becoming executive chairman. Godson, previously president and chief product officer, joined in 2020 and led the company's initial growth. As CEO, he aims to continue the company's culture of client care and innovation. Matos will serve as advisor and mentor to the executive team.

Chad: Nice.

Joel: Focusing on strategic vision and product development. Big news, Chad, your thoughts?

Chad: Big news. Yeah, so it's funny because we got this news early, 'cause we've got friends...

Joel: We got friends like that.

Chad: We have friends. Adam is a close friend, Jay-Z, amazing. And, again, we talked about this four years ago. Jay-Z went to Paradox first, I believe, and then Adam did four years ago. And I said on the show, Aaron and I think I can say we were both at one time control freaks. Not that I'm not a control freak now. But we were both control freaks. And I said that if Aaron gets the fuck out of the way and lets these guys run, this company will explode. They threw that at me this week.

Joel: Sure. Sure.

Chad: But Aaron I didn't say make him CEO, but it's not a bad thing. Yeah. I think this is amazing. Paradox, it's funny because they are the alpha in this space.

Joel: The apex predator I've been known to call them.

Chad: They are the alpha. They have taken a chatbot to applicant tracking system. I mean, all the way through the system. And as we talk about, how do you own this market? You got to go down funnel. We talked about even the job boards. They need to go more down funnel if they want to be relevant moving on, you got to have data. Why? This whole AI thing is a thing. Paradox understands that, they understood that. They know data means everything. And then you got a guy who, he is best in class. Adam Godson, in the market. He was with RPO Cielo for years doing this exact same thing. Now he has the cash, not just duct tape and bailing wire that he had at Cielo to build products. He has the firepower to go build whatever he wanted to as the chief product officer. Now he's the fucking CEO. And then you've got Aaron still there...

Joel: No.

Chad: As chairman. So dude I'm excited. I'm biased as fuck, don't get me wrong, but I am excited to see where these guys go.

Joel: Yeah, it is a two-way street with those guys.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: I think the love goes both ways...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: From that. And we will be in Phoenix...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Soon. So hopefully...

Chad: April, Jesus.

Joel: I don't know if we'll be his first interview as CEO, but I'll take that gig if he wants to give it to us. So I have a special relationship with them. In the 2000s, I sold what was then a blog, SEO mobile kind of...

Chad: Cheese Head.

Joel: Kind of a mix up of a company. Worked for Aaron directly for a couple of years. I will echo your control freak comment. Although, I think the years, having children, life just sort of has mellowed Aaron a little bit.

Chad: It does that too.

Joel: A leopard doesn't change its stripes, usually. So I got three takeaways from this.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: Number one is, Paradox must be doing really well. Back to the control freak thing. Aaron does not let go unless it's going really, really well. And he feels like I can step away. So...

Chad: Adam hasn't been president for long either.

Joel: No. So as much as we know that Paradox is doing very well, my guess is it's even doing better than we think or we talk about. So that's my first takeaway. Paradox must be crushing it for Aaron to make this move. Number two, Aaron highlights the importance of CEO as your head of TA. And I don't say that lightly. He's a fantastic recruiter. He has built a team that is frankly probably unmatched in our little world of work here. And most CEOs do not focus on the recruitment side of it like Aaron has and will continue to do so. So from his board of directors, his investors, his leadership team, probably middle management and beyond, he's had a hand in that. He's had a directive in some of those. He's probably gone all out to get Adam on board to get Jay-Z on board...

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: To get these guys on board. So he exemplifies the importance of CEO as head of talent. CEO needs to be recruiting. And my third takeaway is that, he ain't going away. [chuckle]

Chad: Oh, no. No.

Joel: He ain't going away.

Chad: I ain't leaving.

Joel: Yeah, he ain't leaving. This is Wolf of Wall Street Bay.

Chad: I ain't leaving.

Joel: Yeah, they need to... Anyway. It will probably enable him to focus more on, he does acquisitions incredibly well.

Chad: He's a smart nude.

Joel: And we've talked about consolidation. We've talked about TJ Maxx clearance racks. He is going to have time to focus on these acquisitions and start knocking them down one by one, and just sort of give them to the team to run. So one, Paradox is crushing it. Two, CEO needs to be your head of recruiting. And number three, Aaron is not going anywhere and he'll be Unleashed on parts that have been less of a focus.

Chad: It's scary.

Joel: And that's kind of scary.

Chad: It's going to be scary.

Joel: That's a little scary.

Chad: So there's... And I think we're missing one piece that I want to hit, we've hit before in the past, Aaron has one superpower that most CEOs in this space do not.

Joel: Yep.

Chad: His experience and his failure. And failure is learning. Knowing how determined Aaron is, and I don't know him as well as you do, but I'm sure that you agree how determined that dude is. He wanted to come out as the Phoenix with this Paradox, with Paradox and Olivia. And he really has. And that's one of the things that we have to understand is that, failure is a learning experience and you have to pivot off that and you have to become better. And I just think he has, I really think he has. To Adam's point of being head of TA, there's nobody in the industry that's more likable than that guy. Maybe Jay-Z. The two most likable guys.

Joel: Yeah. Okay.

Chad: In the industry are leaders in that organization. Amazing.

Joel: Yes. And don't discount Aaron going from what was arguably a top five, six job board nationally, and starting this little bitty chatbot side project that has become what it has become. But there's a lot of humble pie...

Chad: Vision. Yeah.

Joel: Humble pie needs to be eaten, a lot of looks in the mirror and that's not easy to do.

Chad: No.

Joel: And he once commented in a meeting that, "Hey, if we're gonna be disrupted, I want to be the one that's doing the disrupting." Which is good advice for any organization. But he ate that dog food and he disrupted his own job board business.

Chad: That's maturity.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: That is, if anything matures you... I've failed, I've crashed and burned with products and shit like that. What I've learned out of that is immense, I mean, it is. And I feel like I've been a better person out of learning out of that. So, again, I think he has a superpower where most founders in this space, experience wise, they do not.

Joel: Yeah. And knowing Aaron as I do, he's hating all this sunshine being blown up his ass.

[laughter]

Joel: So...

Chad: Hey dude, I have been one of Aaron's biggest critics.

Joel: A critic, yes.

Chad: For years. We have been on opposite sides of the fence, even from litigation standpoint at a company that I was with and at a company he was with. Right?

Joel: Yep. Yep.

Chad: I'm not gonna blow sunshine unless...

Joel: [chuckle] unless.

Chad: Unless he deserves it. Right?

Joel: Yeah. Okay. But he still hates it.

Chad: You on the other...

Joel: I'm just telling you he hates it...

Chad: You on the other hand, you're a sunshine blower.

Joel: He hates it and hate him thinking all his company is listening to this, is driving him crazy. Okay.

Chad: Next.

Joel: Well, we will take our noses out of Aaron's ass and get a word from our sponsors. Remember, kids, there is no show without sponsors. So listen to our ads and write blank checks to all the companies that are supporting the Chad Cheese podcast.

Chad: Ooh.

SFX: That escalated quickly.

Joel: All right. We are back day.

Chad: We are back.

Joel: Day two, Transform conference at the Wynn in beautiful Las Vegas.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Nevada. Let's...

Chad: Transform.

Joel: To keep up with the topics. Swedish private equity investor, EQT Partners, has put up its hand for Melbourne Australia born human resources software business, PageUp, where US Tech investor, Battery Ventures, wants to part with its 80% stake. Sources told Street Talk, EQT Partners was among parties that tabled a non-binding indicative bid to SellSide advisor, William Blair, last month. British PE investor Permira is also understood to have shown interest, although it is unclear if it's submitted an offer. The Sharks are out looking for deals. Chad, what's your take on the PageUp news?

Chad: Yeah. We talked about PageUp coming out publicly and saying, "Hey, we were ready to sell. We're ready to sell." I mean it, that was amazing. You never hear that, shit happens behind closed doors. And they said, "Hey, market, we want to sell." And, well, apparently they have takers. Apparently they have takers, which is awesome. Here's the cool thing, and again, this is all rumor, maybe it's, you know.

Joel: This is the good stuff. Everybody. [chuckle]

Chad: A social post, from Dan Finnigan. You might know this guy. Dan Finnigan, actually says, "Speaking of the Beatles, off to Melbourne for a few days, and then Sydney for a day, just so I can be back by the following Monday." So he's gone to Australia in a whirlwind tour. Dan Finnigan. Now, who's Dan Finnigan, Joel?

Joel: Dan Finnigan is a mover and Shaker, CEO executive, that cut his teeth at HotJobs Yahoo.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Back in the early 2000s, he took Jobvite over.

Chad: Jobvite. Yes. Yes.

Joel: Got them acquired, got them...

Chad: Jobvite was what?

Joel: Got them a pay day.

Chad: An applicant tracking system.

Joel: A job applicant tracking system. Yeah. And he helped oversee some acquisitions there, at least start the process.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: And now he's at a startup and probably knows a few money guys, and called those money guys and said, "Hey, why don't we go see what's up, see if there's an opportunity here."

Chad: Could be. Could be.

Joel: And our sources on the ground.

Chad: Yes. [chuckle]

Joel: Were like TMZ now.

Chad: We're rumors. Yeah. We were getting all this, we were getting all this stuff from all of our sources. Rumor, again, there's an opportunity here. Will Dan actually prospectively take the CEO position knowing that PageUp's CEO more than likely wants to eject right now. Or at least that's what we're hearing from sources. I don't know about that. He might be on the ground for due diligence because he is an ATS CEO and he has background in that. Or could he be coming in as an advisor? Due diligence, advisory, that kind of thing. No matter what, when you've got a guy with that firepower making a world wind tour to Australia to be able to go through a... And again, this is speculation, might be coincidence, but that's fucking doubtful. What do you think?

Joel: Unless he's got a pension that I have for blooming onions and a nice Foster's beer.

Chad: I'm so sorry, Australians. Our friends in Australia. I'm sorry.

Joel: Going to Australia and the time it takes to get there is not something that you would take lightly. So Dan right now, is at Filtered, who's raised $10 million. When he joined Jobvite, they were nobody. It was pretty shocking that someone that had been at Yahoo HotJobs would leave that to go to this little job by, it was social media.

Chad: That's exciting though.

Joel: Social media ATS was their pitch at the time. But Dan has these ways of joining small companies that you've never heard of, seeing promise, seeing a team that can make bigger things if they just add water. And maybe PageUp is the water that needs to be added to the company...

Chad: Possibly.

Joel: To make that happen.

Chad: Possibly.

Joel: My take was that, they were seven, eight years into the Battery Ventures money. That it was the road, the clock had run out. It was time that Battery Ventures wanted to get their money, that maybe they weren't doing as well. I think the ATS business is stressed. I think that it's tough right now to make a dollar. You normally are able to sell it on the down low where no one knows you're for sale. But to announce that we want to do this...

Chad: Raise their hand.

Joel: That is like, we're not getting enough buyers by the hush hush down low. We need to get a big, put a bigger net out there. So I still don't believe that PageUp is crushing it...

Chad: No.

Joel: And I think they are motivated sellers. And Dan or whoever comes in will get a fine property and if they can create efficiencies, build brand more globally or do something different, it could be the next Jobvite for sure, the new company or PageUp becomes something else. So I thought this was awesome, that we have people on the ground that see that, listen to the show, know who people are and like, "Hey, you guys might want to know about...

Chad: Check this out.

Joel: Dan Finnigan being in Australia.

Chad: Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. I mean, Australia is not a big enough market in itself from a growth standpoint for PE, right?

Joel: No.

Chad: You need to expand. They said they want to come to the US. Well, I have not seen them successfully coming to the US. Okay? So, again, Dan Finnigan, network. I don't know. Just trying to put all the dots together, kids.

Joel: And by the way, he may know a few executives that want to get out of their current employer.

Chad: Imagine that. Yes. Again, network man.

Joel: And build a team similar to what Aaron has done at Paradox. By the way, speaking of consolidation.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Knowing that Dan Finnigan and Aaron Matos are going to be on the hunt for new opportunities and acquisitions. It's going to be a fun time for the show.

Chad: It will be.

Joel: If that trend continues. Well, let's take another break.

Chad: Okay.

Joel: We'll come back and talk about our friends at Veritone.

Chad: Got it.

[music]

Joel: Tony, Tony, Tony has done it again, Chad.

Chad: Feels good.

Joel: Jobiqo has relaunched the job network, touting itself as North America's largest recruitment ad network powered by their AI enabled job board platform and Veritone's programmatic ad distribution technology.

Chad: Hello.

Joel: Chad, there's a lot to unpack here. Your thoughts on the Veritone, Jobiqo job network marriage.

Chad: Yeah, this is smart for both organizations easily. And first and foremost, Veritone, friend of the show, sponsor of the show. They've been fairly distressed lately. I mean, AI has taken a hit because of all the FAANG companies doing AI. And I mean...

Joel: The stock is not going to the moon. Last time I checked.

Chad: There's a ton of shit going on. Although, what does Veritone need? They need a bigger footprint. Need a bigger boat. We've always talked about this. This footprint is amazing because you're talking about like 150 plus job boards in North America plus the EU. So you've got all these, mainly dock region. But at the end of the day, man, your footprint grows. The EU is not as advanced with regard to programmatic as the US is. Although, for the Jobiqo side of the house, now they're evolving. And we've said that if job boards want to stay alive, they have to evolve. Amazing. You automatically have this programmatic performance based technology in your system. And you can offer it to every single, hundreds, thousands of job board clients.

Joel: Sure.

Chad: Press the button.

Joel: Turnkey.

Chad: And then Jobiqo, I guarantee you, has a transactional cut that they take off of it. Amazing. So they get their SaaS play, they get their transactional play. And who's the big brother of this thing?

Joel: Veritone.

Chad: Veritone is powering the whole fucking thing. So this, to me, again, is incredibly smart. Broadbean is in play, obviously, because of the acquisition of Veritone. So many moving parts. We've been talking really short-term that stock hasn't looked good. They have all the pieces to be able to make this work. And we've just been sitting back and saying, "What the fuck are they going to do?" This is, I think, big.

Joel: Yeah. It could be for sure. And we'll keep our eye on it. The Job Network, and not to turn this into a nostalgic Aaron Matos edition of the Chad and Cheese podcast. But...

Chad: Tell me a story.

Joel: A guy named Scott Molitor started the Job Network way back in the day. Out of Milwaukee, built up these great domains that were all city focused, while Aaron was at Jobing in Arizona, getting all the state names and certainly rush for those local states. So the Job Network for a long time was just this juggernaut of SEO goodness, before Indeed came along and figured that out.

Chad: Smashed it.

Joel: They kind of owned any city jobs...

Chad: Before Google changed the algorithm.

Joel: Yeah, they just never kept up. Scott sold the company in 2016. Probably really good timing on his part...

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Because of the changes we've seen in the industry. But it has sort of been this dilapidated house just waiting for someone from the HGTV crew...

Chad: It needed a refurb. Oh, yeah.

Joel: Put in some new drywall, fresh coat of paint and really focus on what the business could be. And I think Veritone sees that opportunity. You and I knew early on about the Pando Veritone, the Broadbean Veritone kind of connection. And I think we saw what it could be. But we thought, like you said, they need a bigger boat. This is one of the few job board properties, networks, if you will, that they can plug and play, put our jobs through share revenue, we've got instant traffic. Now we have a line to Europe, which I think is maybe the most interesting part of the story.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: They need to SEO it, they need to like leverage every free option, social media, and the technology behind Veritone to create content, which I don't think they've even unlocked yet, to create content and video, to create content in multiple languages.

Chad: Oh, God.

Joel: If that opens up a whole new way...

Chad: Voice.

Joel: To drive traffic to these sites, that becomes pretty interesting. So...

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: Our eyes gonna be on this. We know that our relationship with them, they'll keep us in tune to what's going on. But, yeah, this is one of the few moves you can see in the job board space these days, outside of Stepstone buying CareerBuilder and Monster...

Chad: Not happening.

Joel: Which I still contend...

Chad: Is not happening.

Joel: Will not happen until it does. This is definitely something something to watch.

Chad: Well, and again, you talk about the SEO side of the house. So you've got Martin Lenz on the Jobiqo side of the house. They're going to be working that avenue. This is a divide and conquer type of scenario. And I love that, partnerships until you buy them. And that could happen, maybe not, I think in this point, working as two separate entities, as partners that know their shit, and they're incredibly focused and disciplined on their shit. I think it could be, it could be magic. And it could be magic for both of them. But mainly, first off for Jobiqo because all of these job board platforms that are out there are getting old and dusty. And I mean, there aren't a lot of really good up to date ones that are out there, Jobiqo is, it's top shelf. Will job boards start kicking over to their network and using this new tech instead?

Joel: I think job postings are just the start. I mean, I could see where there's a pre-screening tool driven by Veritone AI, interviews...

Chad: Wade and Wendy.

Joel: Obviously chat, Wade and Wendy, does this chat come into play of I don't have a resume, it's a it's a warehouse job. Like Chatbot is right there to take your resume as a chat and a conversation.

Chad: Answer some questions.

Joel: It's mobile friendly. So I think this is just starting with posting jobs and getting more exposure for those jobs. I'm excited. This has been a fantastic show with a lot of optimism of companies...

Chad: Good stuff.

Joel: Doing really interesting things...

Chad: Look at you not being dystopian.

Joel: And we got to talk about blooming onions and Foster's and Australia.

[laughter]

Joel: There's a blackjack table and a lunch buffet calling my name. Chad, this has been a hell of a week. Another episode in the can, we out.

Chad: We out.

Outro: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of The Chad and Cheese Podcast, or maybe you cheated and fast-forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back, valuable time you could've used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell, enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey, or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckle heads instead. Now, go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.



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