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Pulling Out of Mother Russia

Pulling out is a common theme this week, so let's keep the ball rolling. Businesses in our space - notably Indeed, Upwork and Fiverr - keep abandoning Mother Russia in favor of standing up for Ukraine. Invasion aside, money keeps flowing into startups. This week, we cover new funding for Torc, Donde, Findem, Reejig and Instant Teams. No unicorns, and maybe that's a good thing. The show ends with talk about the future of recruiting conferences, featuring opinion on Jobg8, TAtech, ERE, Unleash, Recfest and HR Tech.


INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (21s):

Oh yeah. Making sweet, sweet love to your eardrums. Since 2017. Hey boys and girls, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast, HR's most dangerous. This is your co-host Joel "the Barry white of recruiting" Cheesman.

Chad (36s):

And this is Chad "undisclosed location" Sowash.

Joel (40s):

And on this week, show, life is hard for a Russian gig worker. Forecasts for recruiting conferences, cloudy with a chance of rain and a little buy or sell. Let's do this. How's life Chad?

Chad (55s):

It's good

Joel (56s):

Is it treating you okay. Right now?

Chad (58s):

It's okay. Sunny beaches. Those types of things.

Joel (1m 1s):

Sounds awful. So where in the world are you Mr. Undisclosed location?

Chad (1m 5s):

We are back in Portugal, trying to get a deal done, but that's all I'm going to get into right now because I don't want to fucking jinx us.

Joel (1m 14s):

Listeners will know Chad's been playing real estate mogul in Portugal. So there must be a deal in the works that he doesn't want to get into, but he will keep us informed. I'm betting before St. Patrick's day something gets done. I'm betting there's a celebratory St. Patrick's day at the Portuguese Irish pub that will happen next week.

Chad (1m 35s):

And you've got to remember, we are in Europe and nothing happens fast in Europe. We're in Portugal, which is incredibly laid back and cool, and such an awesome vibe. Again, knock on wood, not going to jinx it.

Joel (1m 51s):

But the St Patrick's day party at the Irish pub in Portugal is a sure thing though, right?

Chad (1m 55s):

Yeah, that's going to happen. Yeah. That's definitely happening. Julie and I've already been talking about what, what Irish pubs we should hit up while we're here.

Joel (2m 3s):

Yeah. By the way, I think this is the first year that our show recording happens on a St Patrick's day. Listener, be worn, who knows what the hell is going to happen in next week's show.

Chad (2m 14s):

I will be a few deep. There's no question.

Joel (2m 16s):

It might be a Wednesday night recording show, although that's late for you. I don't know.

Chad (2m 21s):


Joel (2m 21s):

We'll see what happens, folks. We'll see what happens. But for now, we're here. It's another week and we have shout outs.

Chad (2m 28s):

Yes. And to get into not to get too somber, but Hey, it is what it is. Right. We are seeing atrocities daily in Ukraine. I mean, just yesterday, a maternity hospital was bombed. And most people, the ones who actually feel helpless right now, you know, they want to do something. They don't know how to do something. So how can we actually do something? I mean, we can't buy guns and ship them to Ukraine for God's sakes. If I could, I would have already at least put some money into a javelin missile, but there is something we can do. Well, let me introduce you to Andrew Stetsenko. He's the chief relocation officer and Andrew a Ukrainian is on the battlefield today.

Chad (3m 14s):

He's an entrepreneur. He was once a recruiter, but now he's on the cold ass battlefield of Ukraine fighting for his country's freedom. So here's how you can help out their kids. Go to, click on the Ukraine flag. I put a big ass Ukraine flag on the homepage.

Joel (3m 36s):

Yeah, you can't miss it.

Chad (3m 38s):

You can't miss it. And it'll lead to Andrew's funding page where he's collecting cash to buy winter military clothing for every man, woman and in some cases, children who are defending Ukraine against Russian atrocities. That's, click the Ukrainian flag and give, give, give. I actually donated 200 euros yesterday. So that's the bar kids go meet it. And if you've never been on a battlefield and cold before, it is an entirely different kind of cold. Bone numbing, kind of cold, let's keep them warm so they can get done what needs to get done?

Joel (4m 16s):

No clue how I follow that and shout outs, but I'm going to give it a try. Let's go to Eightfold shout out. That's a good follow-up to that unicorn. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Chad, we give a lot of airtime to AI, mostly how it's just a label on websites to help separate companies from their money. But Fast Company thinks at least one company in our space deserves some love. Eightfold was named by the once mighty magazine as one of their 10 most innovative companies in the world saying quote, "based on analysis of a billion careers and a million skills Eightfold recommends mentors projects and internal jobs to each employee within an organization, helping to steer them in the direction they have to go, whether it's a promotion or a pivot into a new role"

Joel (5m 3s):

end quotes. So for what it's worth Fast Company thinks Eightfold has some real AI and put them in their top 10 list.

Chad (5m 9s):

Yeah. I think they should continue to write articles around something they know something about. Their suckers, which I mean, Eightfold, if Eightfold is good at anything it's marketing. They're awesome at marketing, they're fucking, they have the glitz, the glam, the UI, they've got all the u's. Right. But at the end of the day, yeah. I think that's just a boneheaded top 10.

Joel (5m 34s):

Yeah. It won't be a Fast Company's last mistake if it is indeed a mistake. I'm sure if you went back 20 years to their list of top 10 innovative companies, Theranos is probably in there, which is great. If you have Hulu, I'm going to give a recommendation that the Dropout about that there are no stories is pretty, pretty damn good if we're making recommendations there.

Chad (5m 58s):

And if you like podcasts, the Dropout, that's where the Hulu version actually came from the podcast itself

Joel (6m 5s):

I haven't heard the podcast have you.

Chad (6m 7s):

I started, yes, the actual, just the first episode. So it sounds good. So go check it out. Last week, we talked about Adzuna sponsor our friends over at Adzuna ceasing business in Russia. And this week's European episode is actually entitled. Get ready kids. The pull-out method, where we dig deep into big brands, pulling biz ops from Russia as well. Well, just this week, Indeed disabled their Russian site and also disabled all jobs from Russian military/state owned enterprises. So this is a shout out to Indeed. Thanks for joining the party.

Chad (6m 48s):

That's awesome.

Joel (6m 49s):

Very nice. Very nice. Well, a few more party goers, not in terms of pulling out, which by the way, got a lot of love from our fans for that title. Well done. Forbes has a list of best startup employers and a few of our friends made the list. So SeekOut , Touring and Deel, that's ee on Deel, made the top 50. Co-founder and CEO, our buddy, Anoop Gupta said, quote, "from the moment we started SeekOut people have been our first priority and foundation to our success" end quote. Shout out to the best startup list for employers on the Forbes.

Chad (7m 29s):

I'm a fan of all those three, really interesting that Eightfold didn't make that list.

Joel (7m 34s):

I didn't get past the top 100. They might be further down the list. I don't know. But top 50 is pretty good for three of our industry friends.

Chad (7m 43s):

Not too shabby.

Joel (7m 45s):

Also in that list because we love lists Chad, the TA tech top 100, what TA thought leaders is out. And for some reason, you and I are both on the list again, this year.

sfx (8m 0s):

Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Joel (8m 2s):

They're still using my pic from 2014. So I look marvelous. I look great. I look great. Thanks TA tech.

Chad (8m 9s):

Thanks TA tech. Is that it for shout outs?

Joel (8m 15s):

Nope. I got a Nationwide Insurance, Chad. For fine Columbus Ohio company. The company announced this week, it's raising its minimum pay to $21 per hour effective April 4th. The change will impact 600 employees and all new early career roles. The company had raised its minimum pay to $18 last year and had raised it to $16 in 2018. Shout out to them. And of course, Chad, we got a shout out to free shit. Yes, you haven't signed up for free stuff from us. You got to go to We're giving away t-shirts from Emissary. Beer, from our friends at Pillar and whiskey from our friends at Textkernel.

Joel (8m 55s):

So this month we have winners. Our whiskey winner goes to Kristin Urban and our beer winner goes to Beth Dunlap. So ladies, thank you for letting us destroy your livers. Those shipments will be coming soon.

Chad (9m 9s):

Well, that's nicely done. It's women's history month. We've got a couple of females actually winning. So that's a good job. That's awesome.

Joel (9m 18s):


Chad (9m 19s):

Hopefully we'll see them at events. Don't forget kids. We've got the E recruitment Congress coming up, May 6th in Belgium. If you are in Europe, buy a ticket, get your ass there. And then also after that, later in the month, Unleash America, May 25th and 26th in Vegas. It's going to be a good time. And instead of just giving you a bunch of different URLs, just go to, click on events and all the info is right there kids check it out.

Joel (9m 52s):

It's simple for our listeners. Chad, keep it simple. And we have birthdays.

Chad (9m 59s):


Joel (9m 59s):

Birthdays. Our buddy, Kyle Hager celebrates another year around the sun as well as yes.

Chad (10m 8s):

Our millennial listener.

Joel (10m 10s):

Yes. Our figurehead millennial generation, Mel Skatson, and celebrates a birthday. Yeah. Robert Williams, Tracy Morris, Riley Northam, my niece. I threw her in there. It's her birthday today. Leanne Chase, Dean D'Acosta Sourcing guru, Bruce Gee, Amanda Hahn at HireVue who I'm sure loved last week's show.

Chad (10m 32s):

Love it.

Joel (10m 33s):

That title and Ryan Estis formerly of NAS all celebrate birthdays. Congratulations.

Chad (10m 42s):

Love it.

Joel (10m 42s):

Congratulations to all of them. And thanks for listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad (10m 46s):


Joel (10m 47s):

All right. Let's go back to Russia for a second.

Chad (10m 52s):


Joel (10m 52s):

You mentioned Adzuna and Indeed in your shout-outs but Upwork, ticker symbol UPWK announced Monday that it is suspending business operations in Russia and Belarus. The move, which will fully take effect May 1st is starting with the shutting down of support for new business generation in each country, existing contracts with talent and clients and the region will remain open with final billing due May 1st in the quote, "web mobile and software development category, Russia and Belarus represent about 10% of Upwork's talent pool." The Washington post wrote this will impact tens of thousands of workers and just announced not to be outdone Upwork competitor Fiverr has pulled the plug on Russia as well.

Joel (11m 37s):

So much for Putin's career ambitions to be an app developer. Chad, your thoughts?

Chad (11m 42s):

Very simple. All of the work that Russians were performing no more. All of the money Russians were putting in their bank accounts for Upwork gigs, and now Fiverr gigs, no more. We talked about it again on the Europe show this week, it's a boa constrictor. As long as we continue to drop sanctions and companies continue pulling out, Russia will be financially brought to their knees. The thing is we have to continue to roll out sanctions. We have to continue the pressure and this, I think this type of pressure and then pressure that we're seeing from around the world. There's a unification that's happening right now. And it's pretty amazing to watch.

Joel (12m 20s):

Yeah, it was a, there's a Thomas Friedman article that came out I think yesterday, this is Thursday that we record this and basically said that we've dropped the equivalent of an atomic bomb economically on Russia. And the hits just keep on coming. As you've mentioned, since our European show, McDonald's, Coke, Pepsi, I think Morgan Stanley or one of the biggest banks there is pulling out.

Chad (12m 42s):

Big banks.

Joel (12m 43s):

But so, so this to me is big news and it's in our space. And I was kind of wondering if these two companies Fiverr and Upwork would make the move? No disrespect to Adzuna or Indeed who pulled out of Russia. But Upwork and Fiverr are big also by the way, no word from France's on what it'll do. But Russia, Russia basically has four industries, oil, steel, hackers, and hookers. They have a thriving community of developers that are really smart and really, really good that are making frankly a good living on gig platforms that they didn't have before. Fiverr and Upwork have been an on-ramp for them to have a better life.

Joel (13m 27s):

And that's gone now at least temporarily and maybe even longer in terms of fear of Russia grows, right? Like even if this is over, how likely are you to hire a Russian developer? Probably not any time soon. Fair or not I also wonder if this will drive more developers to attack the west in revenge. If I'm a developer that all my work has been pulled for me, do I suddenly feel an urge to like stick it to Western companies? But more importantly, I think it will lead to a mass Exodus of fantastic talent out of Russia, assuming they can get out and coming into Western companies. So from an employment perspective, particularly in Europe, I think there's going to be an influx of developers and tech talent from Russia that are really changed the landscape for a lot of companies.

Joel (14m 15s):

Frankly, you know, this to me, this isn't, McDonald's shutting down. This is much bigger than that. Even though it won't get nearly the play, you know, on the news and TV and whatnot, because this, you know, not being able to have a big Mac is one thing, but losing my livelihood in the snap of a finger is a huge deal to tens of thousands of people that frankly have nothing to do with this war, but now have to deal with the consequences. And I think that it's great that we're talking about it and I wish more people would be talking about it because it's, to me it's bigger than Coke or McDonald's leaving Russia. Yeah.

Chad (14m 55s):

Well, if you think of the developer community, perspectively, mass exiting Russia, because they can't make money. Right? Imagine that brain drain, I mean, that's a brain drain that Russia can not afford. They can't afford what's going on right now. But what if that talent actually leaves and it doesn't come back, right? I mean, so that's happening. And then number two, we talked about OnlyFans next week or last week where they said, they're going to pull a Russia. And then they're like, no, you know, we're not going to do that. Now they look like fucking idiots at this point because everybody big brands are actually saying, this is important, right? And now OnlyFans, once again, looks like a bunch of fucking idiots.

Joel (15m 37s):

Yeah. If you don't do it, you look like a real asshole. And in the world today where your employees, where social media and people call you out on this stuff, like, you know, companies are making hard decisions. In some cases, it's not that hard. Russia is a pretty small percentage of most company's revenue. But in terms of Upwork, there's a huge number of Russian developers and gig workers that are going to be going to be impacted by this. So my heart goes out to them and I hope that they find a better, better life because they have nothing to do with, you know, maniacal invasion.

Chad (16m 13s):

And depending on how this turns out, if Russia keeps any land whatsoever, right. Cause they've taken the land, you know, this can be a sedate land kind of thing. This could perspectively be something that these sanctions and these companies stay out for a much longer time.

Joel (16m 34s):

Yeah. And by the way, Ukraine is losing developers too. Which they can freely leave to Poland and Portugal, as you mentioned. I mean, everyone in Europe, I think hats off to them for taking refugees out of Ukraine, but that's going to be a lot of other developers that never go back to Ukraine because frankly, the whole place is bombed to shit that are going to flood into European countries as new tech talent to those areas as well. So yeah, interesting times.

Chad (17m 3s):

We saw signs for Ukrainian refugees at the airport yesterday. So yeah, that. It's happening.

Joel (17m 9s):

No word yet. Whether or not you'll open your new place to refugees, but that would be an interesting dynamic to your new place.

Chad (17m 17s):

Why not?

Joel (17m 18s):

All right, let's get into some more industry laid news, get out of Russia for a second. Findem an AI powered talent sourcing and analysis platform announced a 30 million series B funding round. This brings Findem's total funding to $37.3 million. Customers include Google, Adobe and RingCentral. The company was launched in 2020, said Farouk Ladha, general manager investor at investor Four River's quote, “Findem is applying AI to the candidate search process in a way the industry hasn’t seen before, and reinventing how companies find quality talent and build great teams”, end quote. Their website touts, quote "select a sample role, click the button and get your candidate list for free"

Joel (18m 0s):

end quote, too good to be true right, Chad?

Chad (18m 5s):

I really struggle with this right now and I'm starting to kind of like change position with regard to what's the most important tech that's out there for any organization last week. You remember from last week's show entitled Pretty Biased Machine that we talked about research demonstrating 92% of people who click on a job, eject from the shitty user experience of the application process. Will AI and matching solve this issue? No. Will AI outreach or even human outreach solve this issue? No, it might increase the number of candidates who complete the application, but that's not really sustainable.

Chad (18m 49s):

So overall Findem has some pretty big names, even a unicorn SeekOut . Then you also have Eightfold who has matching blended in a sponsor Textkernel probably the biggest name and matching when it comes to this space. They have a lot of competition and I'm not sure that they can actually fix what's wrong with the industry. The problem right now is you can give me as many qualified candidates as you can find, whether they're in my database or they're external, but I have to invite them to apply. They have to go through the application process. If they don't finish the application process none of this matters.

Joel (19m 28s):

Yeah. Yeah. But you love the name though. Right? Findem. They must be, they must be Midwesterners. Cause we were going to go Findem.

Chad (19m 37s):

We'll Findem.

Joel (19m 37s):

Chad, go Findem. Yeah. You know, I think the bigger trend here is really interesting to me and you pinpointed it with the, you know, 90 plus percent of people click apply, but never finish. People are spending more money than ever to get clicks on job postings. And the whole thing just seems like, you know, a hamster wheel of expense and pain and time. And then along comes this group of startups that say, Hey, we have 750 million profiles just post your job our AI will take care of finding these folks and bringing them into your funnel. A lot of it sounds like Crowded.

Joel (20m 18s):

Like if Crowded had evolved from when it like went to shit, this might be where it would evolve to.

Chad (20m 23s):


Joel (20m 24s):

Companies are looking for answers. I'm not sure this is it. I agree. Like, you know, Crowded failed for a reason. And this model of like, Hey, we're going to do, they span 750, do they bring them to your door? But they're not necessarily active job seekers. So now you're going to bang your head against the ceiling, trying to convince people who don't want to move jobs to

Chad (20m 44s):

SeekOut's the same model.

Joel (20m 45s):

Yeah. I mean, it does it work? I don't know. But you know, people seem to be a little bit sick of the spin and blast and apply and drop and model. I think you and I kind of pinpointed like, Hey, if we could just fix the ATS apply situation, we might not need some of these solutions. Although some people probably like them, but yeah, I think, you know, where the SeekOut , I think hireEZ with their pivot sounds more like this model and where it goes I don't know? Their founder has no previous HR experience so I think that's a little bit of a strike to them. But the future of job postings is that in question. Does it become stronger if these guys fail?

Joel (21m 27s):

I think those are questions that will be interesting to answer in the next few years.

Chad (21m 33s):

Yeah. I think companies should be looking at tech like this, right? But the thing is that they should also understand that they need to fix the application process. There's only one company. I know who's doing it. Neither one of us, I don't believe are actually affiliated with them, but that's JobSync. JobSync actually allows this whole application process to just go in the wind. Right? They are really just the easy button for a candidate to apply to jobs. And if companies Institute JobSync because they can't just get out of their own fucking way and have a user experience that's worth a shit?

Chad (22m 15s):

Plug into JobSyn and then kids, this will probably be the best tech you ever buy. After JobSync, you buy tech like SeekOut or Textkernel or Findem something like this. Then it's worth your dime, right? It's going to be worth your dime, but you got to fix the apply process. And if you're too fucking lazy to do it buy JobSync.

Joel (22m 38s):

Nice plug for that Murphy. Murphy's going to send you another kozee but I have no affiliation with them just for the record. Well, someone who might be on the right track and a model that you might might approve of is our friends at Reejig.

Chad (22m 59s):

Wait a minute first we got Findem. And now we got Reejig?

Joel (23m 4s):

Findem and Reejig. That's right. Findem. Anyway, the Sydney Australia based Reejig announced a 2120 $1 million series, a funding round led by Skip Capital that sounds made up. The company basically brings workforce agility to your organization so that you can find move and up-skill. That's a good word. Reejig reports, its platform uses data from ATSs vendor management systems and other sources to create skills, profiles of workers. Current employees, as well as contingent workers, gig workers, previous applicants, interns, alumni, and referrals. Wow they covered the whole gamut on that. Reejig also extracts information on workers from schools, transcripts, resumes, and profiles on LinkedIn among other sources.

Joel (23m 52s):

In addition, Reejig named Jonathan Reyes as in-house work futurist. That sounds awesome to spearhead growth in the US. Reyes has previously served as global head of talent mobility and talent acquisition operations at Uber. The company was founded in 2019. Well, you can't get behind Findem. Can you Reejig them? Chad?

Chad (24m 11s):

Yeah. So a platform like this should sit inside of every human capital management system, which encapsulates data to drive talent management in internal mobility. So all that other fluff that was in that they, their PR department, their marketing department needs to keep it simple for all the stupid people out there who are buying shit. Right?

Joel (24m 32s):


Chad (24m 33s):

Focus on the talent management piece, focus on the internal mobility piece. Yes. You can get data from all those different internal sources. Totally get that to build more of a fluid profile. I love that. The thing is you have to focus on one area that can actually get you into these organizations or into these platforms and perspectively acquired. There aren't really many great tech platforms that are out there today for talent management and internal mobility. Is this one? I don't know, I've never actually played with it, but I do know that every company that's out there today is talking about an internal mobility and they are shit at it. Yeah.

Joel (25m 10s):

To me, this, this sort of flips the other side of the coin of gee we're tired of people applying and falling out and we're tired of spending more money. So on one end you have with Findem like, Hey, we have 700 million plus profiles that we can tap into when you post your opportunity. And then on this end we have, Hey, dip shit you already have millions of people already in your ATS and already at your company. Maybe you should start tapping into those folks, which gee, that makes a lot of sense. And I think Reejig is trying to do that. They obviously don't, they're not for lack of competition. There are a lot of companies trying to do this, SeekOut for example, we know that their grand vision, talking to Anoop and if you haven't listened to that interview you should kids, talking about the grand vision of kind of cradle to grave with employees.

Joel (26m 5s):

We know that people like Paradox are looking to a more extensive relationship with onboarding and helping people internally. So this is going to be, I think, a really hot space to watch Reejig is maybe really right for acquisition here in the near term. Seek if you're looking for anyone to buy, this would make an interesting addition to your portfolio. So I like this company. I agree with you. I haven't sort of dug into it because they're in Australia, we don't talk to a lot of their customers here in the states that are using them. And they seem to still be fairly regional in what they're doing, but this money that they have now should enable them to grow into US and European markets. So yeah, on one end you have external, how do we capture that?

Joel (26m 47s):

And reReejig looks at, Hey internally, how do we get your current bench activated and into your open roles? So interesting sides of the coin there, Chad.

Chad (26m 57s):

Yeah. They're data companies. So they should be doing everything behind the scenes, integrating with applicant tracking systems, getting into their marketplaces, those types of things. That'll make it easier to be able to invade the US but, but I mean, because you don't need a shit ton of marketing behind it, you just need a great partnership team and you need great partnerships with those applicant tracking systems. So yeah, they have a chance because the model should lean itself to not having to spend a shit ton of cash in the US to be able to get here.

Joel (27m 33s):

Let's take a break and play a little buy or sell, which I don't think we've done in a while. I'm pretty excited about it.

Chad (27m 43s):

All right, Chad you ready to play a little buy or sell? Torc, me, baby Torc me, baby.

Joel (27m 48s):

All right. You know, this goes, we cover three startups that have recently gotten money. We read a summary and we both either buy or sell the opportunity. First up is Torc. T O R C. The cast of Jersey shore has a startup. Chad, these guys are quite a piece of work from their online photos and PR materials. Anyway, talent marketplace Torc this week announced its public launch and funding to the tune of $5 million in seed capital. Torc connects businesses with software developers based on enterprise demands and developer productivity money will be used to scale.

Joel (28m 30s):

The business said Frank D'Souza co-founder of investor recognize and Torc board chair, quote, "Torc differentiates itself in the talent matching space with its use of AI security and marketplace dynamics to identify the most talented and productive engineers in the world "end quote. Michael Morris is co-founder and CEO. He is an economic software development expert and former CEO of crowdsourcing marketplace, Top Coder. Chad you buy or sell on Torc?

Chad (28m 60s):

So talent marketplaces are a very big piece of the workforce now, and it will become a much larger proportion in the very near future, especially for these types of positions. Now, the biggest difference between all of these startups busting into the space is one thing. That's leadership and with D'Souza, Biederman and Morris, who did sell Top Coder back in 2016 as co-founders, to me, this is an easy buy.

Joel (29m 31s):

Easy buy. All right, well, Chad, you know, you know, I like a good wave. I've never surfed before, but if I'm riding a wave, if I want to ride a good wave of, instead of trying to surf a bad wave and it makes sense, space is just hot. It's smoking, look, you've got the talent behind it. You have people needing developers. They're spending money like mad. The timing in terms of this business and the wave that they're on is super, super juicy. So for me, this is an easy buy. I love it. I love it. It's a strong buy as a flip. I think they could take this 5 million and turn into 250 million or so.

Joel (30m 17s):

So as a flip, I love it. As a longer term business, I'm still going to buy it. Torc is a winner from the Chad and Cheese podcast. Now we'll go into Instant Teams, the remote talent marketplace platform that builds and manages remote teams from a 26,000 plus member database of, and this is important "military connected, remote certified workers" has announced a series, a funding round of $13 million led by our friends at Tiger Global. Founded in 2016, the Delaware based company counts Amazon and Walmart as customers.

Joel (30m 58s):

They provide quote "instant access to pipelines of remote skill, ready, talent in customer support, sales, data analytics, and operational support roles" end quote. The company currently employs over 500 remote team members across the globe and has seen 346% growth in the last 12 months. Chad, you know, a little thing about the military, are you buying or selling Instant Teams?

Chad (31m 26s):

Yeah. These ladies have mad skills. This was a very smart and very fast pivot from a basic military spouse job board. That site was actually called Mad Skills. And then about 18 months ago during the pandemic, they pivoted into Instant Teams. The workforce they originally focused on was incredibly niche, spouses, military, so on and so forth, but it looks like they're opening it up into an outsourcing platform for more than just military spouses and military veterans. I mean, anybody with the skill sets that it looks like that they're trying to target. So I think if they're looking to open that up, some, both of these, these co-founders military spouses and some of the greatest experience I've actually seen in my military, my military time were military spouses.

Chad (32m 14s):

There were some of the smartest freaking people that I've ever witnessed and probably because they had to be so adaptable because they were changing all the time. They were they're moving from location to location. Well, this allows them to embrace that remote dynamic and Carrie, you know, again kind of like an outsourcing slash RPO set up. So I love it. I think it's incredibly smart in their pivots and how quickly they pivoted it. Makes me want to buy this.

Joel (32m 47s):

And by the way, Chad, you work in recruiting. So, you know, a lot of smart people. So that says something that these are some of the smartest people.

Chad (32m 52s):

So, insert sarcasm here.

Joel (32m 54s):

Sarcasm here. So remember when Facebook was like EDU email addresses only, and then that was super successful. And then they said, oh shit, let's just open this fucker up to the whole world. You know, I think I thought of that when I read about these ladies and you're right, like companies want to use this service, they need this service and they feel good about it because they're helping out, you know, veteran families. And then now these companies, maybe they run out of database, maybe the people are like shrunk or whatever. But like, so opening this thing up with the tech that they have and the 13 million that they've just gotten. I think that probably some of that round was like, oh, we'll open it up to the world. And I think that it, you know, the ramp up to success is probably going to be pretty easy.

Joel (33m 39s):

I don't know how the fuck they employ 500 people, even though they're remote. That seems a little crazy to me, but that's probably a little bit skewed to short-term contractors or somebody made us a banner ad back in February. So we'll count them as an employee. So I'm not sure about that number, but overall, yeah. I mean, this feels like it grew organically. It grew out of sorta love for the military community. And now it's just taken on a life of its own.

Chad (34m 11s):

Prime time.

Joel (34m 12s):

And it's off to the races now. Let's get to our third and final participant in buy or sell, Dawn Day.

Chad (34m 20s):


Joel (34m 21s):

I think that's Kanye his new album, the Salt Lake City, Utah based platform for time off announced a $3.3 million funding round, that's seed funding this week. Dawn Day provides a platform for time off, which helps organizations attract and retain top talent with travel savings, accounts, proprietary, travel, bookings, technology, and tools to reward and bonus employees with experiences. Everybody loves experiences. Since launching its product in March of '21, the company has brought on 31 customers, including Traeger Grills. If you've never had a rack of ribs on a Traeger Grill, Chad, you haven't lived yet.

Joel (35m 1s):

The company intends to use the funds to introduce its platform to the wider market, got to love their slogan "Better time off means better time on" Chad, are you buying or selling Dawn Day?

Chad (35m 12s):

The name Dawn Day? You know what that means? Right?

Joel (35m 15s):

Where, yeah. Where in Spanish? In Portuguese too?

Chad (35m 19s):

Yeah, no, I don't know.

Joel (35m 20s):

Casa de Sowash. That's what I'm going to ask when I get off the plane.

Chad (35m 25s):

Man, I love this idea. The problem is employers keep saying they want you to take a vacation, but the lion's share really don't mean it, kind of like hiring diverse candidates or hiring veterans. Many just smile and say what you want to hear and then nothing happens. So most employers don't believe it's their job to make your time off awesome. And they really don't want you to take it anyway. So I love this idea. The problem is you're working with a bunch of assholes. So I hate the market. It's a sell.

Joel (36m 2s):

Ooh, all right. Well, blame millennials, obviously Chad that want experiences.

Chad (36m 6s):

I want experiences are you fucking kidding me?

Joel (36m 9s):

That's the new commercial with Ewan McGregor, where he's like, well, you really die eating a dinner TV. Now you want it. So I agree with that, but

Chad (36m 21s):


Joel (36m 21s):

It's obviously huge with that generation. And I, to me, employers are smart to tap into that desire, right? To have these experiences, I think makes a lot of sense. The pandemic ending means there's a lot of pent up demand to get the hell out of the house. Maybe work from home engagement is partially bent upon companies, helping people get the hell out of their house and get the hell out of, you know, their dog whining and their cat howling at the moon. Maybe this is too close to home for me. But getting out and helping employees, I love the savings account thing. I dunno if it's like they can set up a tax-free savings account or something but that to me is genius.

Joel (37m 5s):

I think it's a brilliant idea. I think the timing is right. And maybe it's just because I want to get the hell of the house, but I am buying Dawn Day.

Chad (37m 16s):

Dawn Day.

Joel (37m 17s):

Donde esta Casa de Sowash. All right. Let's take a quick break. And we'll talk about the future of recruiting conferences. All right, Chad, let's talk recruiting conferences and you and I are excited to get back out there. But as we know, as we know, the pandemic put a serious monkey wrench in the recruiting conference business. Most made an attempt at virtual events, but I think we all mostly agree, virtual events suck. Most who went to HR tech last year, said it was anemic in attendance with mostly vendors that were there. Now with the pandemic mostly over, we're ready to get back out there.

Joel (37m 58s):


Chad (37m 58s):


Joel (37m 58s):

Well, maybe not a while some shows like England's RecFest are looking good so far. Others like Unleashed, Jobgate and ERE look a little thin from our viewpoint. Unleashed moved its March event to the US to May. ERE is sticking with virtual events this spring without their usual who's who of sponsors showing only three sponsors for their April digital only event. We're not going to count this source Khan Academy because they own it. Speaking of SourceCon their digital event in March has a dozen sponsors, which is still kind of low for a SourceCon event. The number of dollars are going into the recruiting space. Seems like that should be something that they'd be interested in.

Joel (38m 41s):

And then we have Jobgate, the job board industry conference, that's known for its global presence. They have canceled shows that were to take place in London and San Diego in 2021 and '22 respectively. Chad it's not buy or sell, but where would you put your money on the future of recruitment conferences?

Chad (38m 59s):

I think there's no question I believe we're going to have to focus on the experience. It's gotta be different. It just can't be come into a room and listen to somebody talk, you know, when you, when you think about in Unleash, I mean, we went to Paris for Unleash. That was an entirely different experience. That was more immersive, really enjoyed that. We'll see what Unleash America looks like. I believe we will see more of that. Also Rekfest you're talking about like an outdoor, you know, it's like a concert type of a situation. You know what I mean? It's the experience? What are you going to do to create an experience that is incredibly immersive, so different, but something that is engaging as well?

Chad (39m 40s):

I'm not sure that Jobgate ever provided that before. I love the people that were over there, but it was, Hey, let's go to a really cool place and go into a room, you know? And it, and that's not, I don't think what people are looking for. I think we need to see an evolution of what events look like, and I'm not sure a lot of these companies can do it. So there's going to be a thinning of the herd, unfortunately. And when SHRM's main stage speaker and they're pushing this out there for everybody to know, is Tim Tebow what and that's a big fucking event, right?

Chad (40m 23s):

What the fuck does that actually say?

Joel (40m 27s):

Tim Tebow at SHRM.

sfx (40m 29s):

Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Chad (40m 30s):

So can we blame the millennials on this one too? Clearly? I think we're in uncharted territory. If a digital conference can make more from attendees than sponsors, then I guess that's one route that you can take. And maybe that's, you know, where ERE is headed. If companies don't want employees to travel, then it's advantage digital event. I think digital events suck. I think you do too. And everyone I've talked to thinks they suck. So advantage long-term to me is in person. I think vendors want to get back and we know they have the money to spend on marketing at these events. But the attendees to me is the big question, because you can't have one without the other.

Joel (41m 12s):

I mean, probably not anyway. Once we get to HR tech in Vegas and Unleash in Paris this fall, I think we'll have a much better idea of where conferences and the future of conferences is going. It may also be evident that conferences need to start appealing to younger audiences, to your point. Rekfset and Knebworth, which is basically a circus for a day. So the commitment's not huge. It's a party. It's a good time. You learn some stuff while you're there. That's not your granddaddy's conference, right? And the old timey events should take note of that. Conferences aren't dead. People still want to rub together and get sticky. As our friend would say, but they probably need to evolve and evolve to thrive.

Joel (41m 55s):

And that'll be tough for a lot of events, but I think that the Recfests and I think HR tech needs to crank it up a little bit in terms of creativity. Unleash in Paris is an experience, particularly for the US but conferences are not dead, Chad. And that's why we're launching the Chad and Cheese conference from Bora Bora in 2023, everybody. Bora Bora 2023. Let's do it. Oh, fuck that.

Joel and Chad (42m 32s):

We out.

OUTRO (42m 32s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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