Sex Therapist Explains Coldplay-Gate

When Coldplay fan cams meet office affairs, humiliation meets HR policy. 🥴

This week, Chad & Cheese welcome sex therapist Tiffany Anton (TEDx speaker, MSNBC/Fox alum, and host of Tiffany Turned On) to talk:

• Why CEOs think they’re “above the law” (spoiler: they’re not).

• HR hookups gone wild.

• Can affairs actually save a marriage? (yeah, she went there).

• Why workplace romance is both inevitable and a retention nightmare.

• Oh, and VR porn, OnlyFans, and dating in your 50s.

Coldplay may have exposed the affair, but Tiffany exposes the truth.

👉 Stream it now—HR’s most dangerous podcast just got spicier.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel Cheesman (00:25.663)

Uhhhh

Joel Cheesman (00:30.345)

Yeah, you know what's up kids. It is the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel Cheeseman joined as always Chad. So wash is riding shotgun as we welcome Tiffany Anton, sex therapist, a masters of social work from loyal Chicago appearances on MSNBC Fox news. She's done a Ted X. She has a podcast sometimes, but most importantly, Chad, Tiffany and I partied.

The Chad (00:57.188)

She's here. okay. What?

Joel Cheesman (00:58.185)

partied in Muncie, Indiana at Ball State University at the same time. I've been trying to get an excuse to get a sex therapist on our show for about five years. Tiffany, welcome to HR's most dangerous podcast.

Tiffany (01:12.361)

Ooh, danger! I like that!

The Chad (01:14.419)

Yeah, you can thank Coldplay for this one, Tiffany.

Joel Cheesman (01:14.459)

I know you do. know you do. I know it. We went to college. We partied together, Tiffany. know what you like. By the way, we never hooked up as far as I know, just in case the listeners are wondering. She has better taste than that.

Tiffany (01:19.192)

Right this way.

The Chad (01:24.57)

Hahaha

Tiffany (01:26.188)

We did not, even with my beer goggles, I was appropriate with you.

Joel Cheesman (01:29.427)

There, there, wasn't enough Zima in the world in the nineties, to make, to make that happen. Tiff and that good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tiff, Tiffany, our, our listeners should know you, but a lot of them don't. What did I miss in the intro? What, what sort of, what, what holes do you want to fill? that's a bad metaphor. what, what, what, what did we miss? What did we miss? and, and anything about you that we should know before we dig into it.

The Chad (01:32.762)

You

Tiffany (01:35.51)

I did Mickey's Malt. That was one of my favorites.

The Chad (01:48.888)

Yeah, he's been waiting for that one.

Tiffany (01:48.93)

Alex

Tiffany (01:58.06)

I was just going to say that I've been practicing for 25 years and I have New Orleans sex therapy and what I do is I provide remote psychotherapy to clients residing in Louisiana.

Joel Cheesman (02:10.847)

Spicy, spicy, spicy.

The Chad (02:12.324)

Because is that a licensing thing? Is that a licensing thing just because you can do... Okay, okay.

Tiffany (02:13.366)

Agent.

Yes. Yeah, you can only practice in a state of which you're licensed. And I'm in Indiana, so that's what the difference is there. I came back to the Ball State area.

The Chad (02:21.73)

Hmm. So can can

Hahaha

Joel Cheesman (02:30.207)

She won't get license in any, cause she know I'll be calling her about all my issues. So she's going to like say.

The Chad (02:33.796)

Yeah, yeah, well.

Tiffany (02:34.03)

We can't see peers, we can't see peers, colleagues or friends.

Joel Cheesman (02:38.749)

Yeah, yeah.

The Chad (02:39.162)

So the podcast the podcast again and you put out 22 episodes last year What's the name of the podcast?

Tiffany (02:46.094)

Tiffany turned on.

The Chad (02:50.234)

that's, that's, that's sassy.

Joel Cheesman (02:51.261)

And it's great. It's great. It's great. It's good. It's good. I'm mad that she's not doing it as frequently as I wish that she would. So Tiffany, the, the, the catalyst for this conversation, and we'll start here because everyone is not talking about as much, but like the cold play, fan cam CEO of a company romance with the HR person. is huge news in our space.

When you saw that as a sex therapist, what went through your mind?

Tiffany (03:24.852)

I had two first thoughts. One is that sucks. You know, like what a way to get caught. Right. And so, and within that, that's full humiliation. mean, unbelievable. But it also is you've got some balls, you know, usually when we're cheating, we do it underground. So you've got some balls to show up in a public venue. Yeah.

The Chad (03:48.217)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (03:54.328)

And it looked like they were in a suite kind of right because they were up there were standing. I don't know but Chris Martin obviously called it out that you know that those two are probably having an affair. So I'm sure you've dealt with this on several occasions. There was an affair. It was in office. Somebody got caught. What's that? What do I do other than to come see Tiffany or listen to Tiffany turned on the podcast? What?

What do you do?

Tiffany (04:26.582)

Okay, what do you do as if you're the Coldplay Couple? Okay.

The Chad (04:30.202)

Yes, if you're like, let's say for instance, I'm the CEO, okay. And I got caught, she got caught too, but I personally am leading this organization and I get caught doing something like this. Do I just automatically eject because there's no way of fixing this or do I, what do you do? mean, cause that's a hell of a predicament.

Tiffany (04:34.646)

Tiffany (04:54.126)

Oh yeah. mean, like I said, in regards to the humiliation, it's too much of a cost to the company to stay. But if you came to me and said, Hey, I'm having this affair. I've really got caught. The first thing I would want to know is what's your goal from here? Like, do you want to reunite with or, or heal the relationship with your wife? Do you want to explore what was behind you choosing to have an affair? Do you want to look at how do I cope with all the backlash?

The Chad (04:58.914)

Yeah. Yeah.

The Chad (05:13.078)

huh. Yeah.

The Chad (05:20.217)

Yeah.

Tiffany (05:24.288)

and societal response. So it'd be important to figure out what Coldplay dude, where he would want to go in therapy. And when that MSNBC Fox News, when my article got in there years ago, so I don't know, maybe 2012, 2013, is I wrote an article saying, can affairs save your marriage? Which, you know, is pretty damn taboo.

The Chad (05:32.367)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (05:39.391)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (05:44.954)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (05:54.008)

but I received tons of negative comments. And what I thought was you did not read all the way down to the end. You you checked out the title, you looked at some of my initial comments, but you didn't scroll down to see what I was saying is I would not recommend this. But what we do know

Joel Cheesman (06:03.999)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (06:08.311)

huh.

Hahaha

Joel Cheesman (06:11.731)

Wait a minute, Fox readers didn't read the whole article? I'm shocked by that. Totally shocked by that. man.

Tiffany (06:17.186)

They didn't. huh. Yes. And so again, you would never want to recommend an affair, but there is a potential to really reconnect in your marriage and strengthen it and looking at, you know, there are multiple reasons that we have affairs. I was just taking a training from Tammy Nelson and she said, we have affairs for two reasons and I have a disagreement. one was to,

The Chad (06:21.196)

and or research it further. Sorry, go ahead.

Tiffany (06:46.796)

wake up the marriage or break up the marriage. And I like the language and how I would like to shift it is it's about waking up the self and then potentially shaking up the marriage or breaking up the marriage. Part of the backing of why we have affairs is to feel alive again, to feel wanted.

The Chad (07:05.251)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (07:14.136)

to feel like I still have some of these skills to make some sort of emotional connection. Women tend to have, even though it's stereotype, it tend to have, wanna meet that emotional need. And then we tend to have on the male end, we're talking only about heterosexual relationships here because that's the cold play. Men are looking at the sexual desire piece.

So as a female, if I'm getting some positive attention from a person that I find emotionally safe, and I'm disconnected from my spouse at home, and I start disclosing things about my life that I typically wouldn't with a coworker, and start complaining about the marriage, and then building more of that relationship, and then taking it to the next sexual level. Now, some people have kind of one night flings at work, it's just less than.

We have one-night flings outside of work.

The Chad (08:13.465)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (08:15.359)

So there's a paradigm, there's a paradigm, but so to me, a CEO, there's power there, right? It may not just be, and to hook up with the HR person, which in one way is genius, because no one's gonna report you if you're hooking up with the HR person, but there's a special kind of fucked up about that, right? You agree, disagree, CEO, talk about that.

Tiffany (08:15.576)

Did that answer your question or?

Tiffany (08:23.371)

Uh-huh.

Tiffany (08:37.486)

completely. So when we're in coupleship, our two main power players are sex and money. Right? And we cannot look at this without the hierarchy. And so you didn't fuck an equal. You did that to someone under you. And so even if you're saying, this isn't about power, it's unavoidable. It is there.

The Chad (08:46.136)

Yeah.

The Chad (08:59.738)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (09:06.592)

And then with the HR person. I mean, that's like one of the worst, but for him, maybe one of the best because this is my HR person that isn't going to tattle on me. But if he was really interested in being on the down low, well, that has a whole other meaning behind it, but being secretive, being discretionary or having discretion.

Joel Cheesman (09:13.193)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (09:35.22)

He wouldn't have been doing this in public. So maybe it really was to wake up and to prove

The Chad (09:37.316)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (09:38.463)

Do you feel like he had gotten it away with it a lot before that and he felt sort of cocky or was it I'm CEO, I can get away with it? Because I assume people knew him locally. This was a local concert. He's a startup, kind of a sexy startup. There's risks that people would know him. Are you guess, would your guess be that he's done this before or just the CEO mentality is like, I am above the law. What are your thoughts on that?

Tiffany (09:55.212)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (10:07.402)

I would doubt, again, this is just a clinical hypothesis. I would doubt that this is his first affair because he would not be as ballsy in regards of just in your face. So likely when you have your first affair, like I said, it's very discreet and you try to hide it and then you gain some skills to hide it. Like you, you get on one of the websites, like kick.

The Chad (10:13.544)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (10:35.948)

you would get on kick so you have the secret dialogue. And then when you get home, you...

Joel Cheesman (10:39.569)

What's kick? Sorry. Look, I don't know what it is.

Tiffany (10:42.392)

kick, it's well, and maybe I'm old, maybe I'm thinking about the clients that I've worked with that tried kick in the past, like a telegram.

The Chad (10:52.186)

messaging app. So it's a messaging app.

Joel Cheesman (10:52.287)

messaging. Okay. Okay. Gotcha.

Tiffany (10:53.91)

Yeah, messaging app. Yeah. So then, you know, there are all kinds of different things that we can do to hide our affairs. And what kind of effort did he put in to hide this? It was really an in your face. How are you not going to get caught?

The Chad (11:10.522)

And then you take a look at, again, the hierarchy. I don't know what the actual SOP, Standard Operating Procedures, were for astronomer with regard to staff and dating and all these wonderful things that you could prospectively do. But in some cases, as Joel had said, it's kind of like I'm above the law. I can do whatever I want. And this almost felt like for the rest of the staff,

They were really just, we're going to do what we want. The CEO, I mean, we're talking about two executive staff holders. Yeah, but unequal, but still two executives. And they're important people in the organization. you take a look at it, now you've got two less executives in that organization. They've got a scramble and then you've got their teams that are underneath them. just, it seems...

Tiffany (11:45.07)

But I'm equal.

The Chad (12:07.788)

It seems like they're not, they weren't thinking about anybody but themselves. Is that generally what the case is when you're taking a look at these types of situations, especially when we're talking about in-office cheating?

Tiffany (12:21.208)

How can we look at affairs without saying the word selfish? Yeah, it's selfish. And if we pay attention to the work environment, I'm guessing that that company really felt betrayed by them. So it was a betrayal in their marriages and a betrayal at work. Like, look at what your choices did to the business. Not only your choices did to your marriages.

The Chad (12:24.206)

Yeah. Good point.

The Chad (12:32.346)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (12:47.962)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (12:48.866)

So that level of risk, and I use the word cockiness and I get kind of roll my eye with everybody discussing narcissism, right? Like that's left and right. I tell you what, how do we look at this without thinking there is some level of that sense of superiority. Maybe they even thought, I can't get caught or I don't make mistakes. So don't tell me that I made this mistake or that mistake and then I'll gaslight you.

Joel Cheesman (13:14.205)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (13:18.734)

and minimize. If you came with this one, it was right on the screen.

The Chad (13:23.13)

Yeah. So, I mean, let's take a look at that now in saying we're in 2025. This is not, you know, 1975. We have progressed, you know, whether, you know, it's LGBTQ plus trans pronouns, all those different things, poly open by all those things. Right. You think that we have gone to the point where we could start to hopefully try to engage in understanding some of these things. But unfortunately, it seems like

Heterosexual white men are still in power. that to me that feels like that's why we haven't seen change. We see a Jamie Dimon who's still in power. I know.

Tiffany (14:05.07)

You are a white man acknowledging white male privilege. I might be crushing on you.

The Chad (14:09.358)

Yeah. So, so, so the, mean, the question is, though, when, when, when a dude, a dude that is in that type of position starts to get all these different things that they're, they're just not, they're not sensitive to, they don't understand. It really freaks them the fuck out. Right. But how do we get past this and start to help people understand that people are going to love who they love. They could be in the office. They could be outside. It doesn't matter.

Joel Cheesman (14:11.64)

The Chad (14:38.582)

Or does it, I don't know, maybe this is just an office culture thing, maybe this is just a company culture thing. Maybe you've got a culture where it's like, we don't care who you're with, where you're with, just as long as you get your shit done. I don't know, are we going to progress out of this 1960s kind of feeling? Not even the 60s, I think the 60s were even more liberal than we are today. It feels like we're in puritanical 1800s in the US.

Tiffany (15:04.226)

Well, that's a whole other dialogue about our political environment right now. In regards to white male privilege, there doesn't tend to be a response from them unless it personally affects their life. So unless they have a sibling that's in the LGBTQ kind of community and, you know, happens to be gay, I don't like the statement of, they're gay. They chose to be gay. No, I just...

happen to be straight, which right now is kind of unfortunate in the dating field. I wish sexuality was a choice because I would not be looking at the males for my choice. Again, there's a high connection between that white male privilege and not responding in a compassionate way unless it hits home. Again, I just took this Tammy Nelson training. So that's why I'm bringing it back here. She mentioned that the 1960s were a sexual revolution.

The Chad (15:43.546)

you

Tiffany (16:01.984)

And now in the 2010s, 2020s, it's a marital revolution. And I would add a gender revolution. And so we have to have things that are kind of in your face or up there for us then to start to normalize it. And that's why maybe it would feel like, there's so much of this, know, them, they, z, zen, you know, the...

Everybody has a different sexuality, you know, so they're demie, they're sapiosexual. So it's right now we're having a gender revolution and we're having a marital revolution. And we're looking at marriages from the 1800s, from the 1950s, aren't really fitting anymore. Cause we don't need a breadwinner, a male breadwinner. We don't need even a male to give us babies. We just need the sperm of the male to give us babies.

The Chad (16:36.634)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (16:56.511)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (16:56.516)

Science.

Tiffany (16:57.868)

Yeah. And we also realize that one human for the rest of our life and partnership can't meet all of the needs. And so how do we meet needs in a way that's respectful, ethical, open with our partners to provide some of the alternatives? So if Coldplay Food had explored an open relationship and it was consensual between the two of them,

The Chad (17:21.668)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (17:27.68)

I would hope he would come out and say, hey, you know what? This is part of my marriage. We have an alternative marriage. And this isn't a betrayal. So I don't know if I answered your total question.

Joel Cheesman (17:38.429)

It's just really dumb because it was with the HR.

Tiffany (17:43.422)

Yes. The thing is he didn't put that on the table, that he had a consensual, ethical, non-monogamous relationship.

Joel Cheesman (17:49.535)

I think that wasn't the case. want to, you, you lit up when you said dating sucks. And I want to, I want to dig into that because we talk about on the show headlines all over the place. Men are lonely. Uh, you know, the top 20 % are getting their, their choice of the litter and not committing, um, loneliness throughout what you talk to people on a daily basis about what's going on in relationships. What are some of the highlights for you in terms of how it reflects the greater

Tiffany (17:55.159)

Hahaha!

Joel Cheesman (18:19.241)

conversation outside about lonely men, unhappy women, et cetera.

Tiffany (18:25.826)

Well, you kind of threw a couple things out there at me. So one, all right, so one was about dating and online dating. And then on top of that, you know, I'm dating in my almost mid fifties. So that's, that's like a different ball game. I was joking around, with.

Joel Cheesman (18:29.183)

Spitball it, man. Pick your favorites. I don't care.

Joel Cheesman (18:35.582)

Okay.

Joel Cheesman (18:42.815)

So that's an age issue.

Tiffany (18:47.534)

with a doctor friend of mine and he's like, you know, you're going to find someone to connect with and that's actually a low priority for me, an interest, but a low priority. And I said, well, what's out there tends to be talking about, say a lot of fish in the sea. Okay, no, right now it feels a little toxic carp ish. And you know what? A lot of my friends in New Orleans will say the same thing that I am.

The Chad (19:02.008)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (19:02.367)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (19:07.502)

especially in Indiana.

Tiffany (19:15.456)

is that what's out there and then the frequency of getting ghosted or getting kind of love bombed and you get excited and then they leave. In My Tiffany Turned On, I have a couple of my episodes are on online dating in your 50s. So if you want to know a little bit more of that in regards of just my experience, our opinion of I have fun sharing screenshots.

of some of the profile pictures that the men put out there. I share it with my BFF. I share it with my mother, because my mother thinks there's all these men out there that are in line for me that are amazing pics. So that's the part of online dating. There's another thing is I joined an alternative dating website. And it ties into, so there's people on there that are poly, ethical, non-monogamous.

And then we get some men on there that talk about discretion and the importance of discretion. And I'm like, you are not ethically non-monogamous. You're on here to have an affair. You need to get over on Ashley Madison. Okay. And then you ask about male loneliness.

and I don't know where it's from so I can't give any statistics, but I heard something recently, I heard something recently about VR porn, and I haven't tried it yet, I want to try it, the VR porn, and that one of the things that men were reporting is that they really enjoyed the eye contact that there, again this was in heterosexual porn,

Joel Cheesman (20:58.079)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (21:01.658)

Mm.

Tiffany (21:02.476)

the eye contact that they were receiving from their imaginary porn partners, that it gave them a sense of intimacy. And allegedly, again, I have yet to have the experience, which I would try the experience with two genders just to see what I think. But I've checked out all kinds of things just to see what I think, you know?

Joel Cheesman (21:18.131)

Hmm.

Joel Cheesman (21:22.911)

Isn't that part of the appeal of, guess, only fans? mean, so anyone can go to porn any second and watch sex, but only fans, there's a sense of a relationship. Isn't there like I'm paying her money. She's putting out whatever content is, is that the secret to success of only fans? It's not just naked women. Is it? I feel like there's some connection.

Tiffany (21:30.818)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (21:38.19)

Mm.

Hmm.

Tiffany (21:47.853)

Well, I want to say that I'm a fan of OnlyFans because, yeah, because of the level of safety. So this is sex work safely. Now we have some manipulation that occurs within kind of the business of it.

Joel Cheesman (21:51.44)

okay.

The Chad (21:56.225)

yes.

The Chad (22:00.196)

Yes. Yeah.

It's scalable, though, too, which is nice.

Tiffany (22:08.396)

You know, so I think that what about the guy that murdered his whole family because he fell in love with an online sex worker that it was one sided and she was over in Eastern Europe. Have you heard about that one? Because he was so in love and was spending the family money and the family was getting mad at him.

So I do believe the personalization that we get from OnlyFans is important. I don't know if you want more from that.

Joel Cheesman (22:41.343)

Do you think OnlyFans helps the loneliness epidemic because people do feel some engagement or some connection to a person? Is that?

The Chad (22:49.274)

connection.

Tiffany (22:51.734)

It could help a hinder. Right? So that it can help, but it can also hinder because I can stay in my non-vulnerable bubble. I can be vulnerable with a person that isn't right here. So it can, again, it can kind of help that sense of loneliness, but it can hinder it because it can actually get in the way, depending upon how much we're using it, with real life relationships.

Joel Cheesman (22:54.131)

Pardon? Okay.

Joel Cheesman (23:17.865)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (23:18.628)

which goes back to the office because again, you start to have these connections with individuals. And at that point again, if you're lonely, it maybe could turn out to be more than just friendship or being a peer. And that's what's happened. I mean, as long as we've ever worked together, I would assume, you you've got people who actually make those connections, whether they're married or not. And then we have a Coldplay incident. So,

Tiffany (23:24.877)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (23:45.677)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (23:48.366)

You know, I guess the big question I want to go back to is this construct of what we've been told is right. One man, one woman, right? That is what, you know, the puritanical sense of what, you know, we've been told is right. Do you think we need to break out of that framework to actually start to...

not give two shits about this and actually just get work done? Because at the end of the day, these companies just want to get work done, right? Is it breaking down that framework? Or what do think it is?

Tiffany (24:22.102)

Yeah.

Tiffany (24:25.614)

Well, just as I mentioned before, we're having a marital revolution right now. And we have to be able to be open to alternatives. And if we have, let me see, I wrote down here some statistics because I wanted to get some valid information here. If we look at the statistics that 23 % of men, this is Kenzie Institute, valid, 23 % of men and 19 % of women are having affairs. And you can have,

an open marriage and still cheat because it's all about the secretiveness. Okay, so if we look at the seemingly commonality of a level of affairs, how can we shift it up in understanding that one human cannot meet all of our emotional and sexual needs? Some people monogamy is so easy, they don't even look left or right. Other people choosing monogamy is a daily choice.

So I completely agree that we need to shake up, again, the puritanical view of what marriage was. And so that monogamy becomes a choice versus the cultural pressure view of what is normal. And that's one of the most common questions that I get as a sex therapist is, am I normal? And so it's about shifting up norms as we shift up what the world is like.

And, but you know what? It's like, yeah, you got it. His company has to move on, but there's still that betrayal of the humiliation because you have a social response.

The Chad (26:01.178)

But there has to be, we're all looking for acceptance, right? And those are things that are not accepted. You make that choice, it might be a choice, but again, the framework, it's not an acceptable framework for most companies, for most groups. So again, as we take a look at outcomes, productivity, those types of things, keeping our people happy, low turnover, all that fun stuff, right? Yeah.

Tiffany (26:26.559)

you look pretty happy. Keeping the people happy.

The Chad (26:30.562)

Because you're keeping the people happy. They're getting shit done. It's fine, right? So, mean, because I have never seen and as we're having this conversation, I've never seen because I probably haven't done enough research and you have any articles or any research that has been performed around this conversation would blowing up that construct and just allowing people to be people, giving them their outcomes. This is when they need to be done. I don't care what else you do.

Tiffany (26:59.372)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (26:59.546)

I've not seen any of that happen. Have you seen that before because it to me that blows my mind

Tiffany (27:05.902)

Well, I don't have much of a connection between what's going on with my client and what's happening at work. You know, I have had people in the same business and there was one individual who was having affairs with lots of different individuals within that same company. And I ended up having three different couples come in to talk about the women that had had affairs with this particular men. So there was a social fallout.

The Chad (27:11.833)

Gotcha.

The Chad (27:21.178)

That's not good.

Tiffany (27:35.375)

But you have to look at that Coldplay dude did embarrass the company. So even though we do need to shift societal norms, that's not where we are right now. And so it then taints the view of that company and they got to go into reparation mode. Even if, so let's say the guy is ethically non-monogamous, the couple, the...

Joel Cheesman (27:51.199)

Yeah.

Tiffany (27:59.213)

Company can come out and say, hey, you guys are judging him as a cheat and he's actually not a cheat. This is your shit because you're inflexible and you're thinking. And that can help the image of the company. But his personal image challenged the image of the company. Now they have to step up to the plate and recreate. You know, one thing is they got a lot of exposure from this, right? Like I'd never heard that company before.

Joel Cheesman (28:11.337)

So you.

Joel Cheesman (28:25.225)

Yeah. No.

The Chad (28:25.508)

Yeah, most people have it, yeah.

Tiffany (28:27.224)

What is it, like, negative attention is better than no attention?

Joel Cheesman (28:29.597)

Yeah, we talked about it on the show. Like they had an increase in job applicants that we sort of researched on on LinkedIn. Yeah. mean, no, there's no bad PR, right? Tiffany. so embarrassed the company. My sense is companies have never really thought about their role in relationships aside from like, don't, know, don't dip your ink where, you know, don't whatever, don't have affairs or don't have relationships in the company, but we do, but we.

Tiffany (28:33.944)

good boy! Good boy!

The Chad (28:34.414)

Hahaha

The Chad (28:53.146)

dip your pen in the company again.

Tiffany (28:54.798)

What is it? Don't piss in your own pond. Is that one of it?

Joel Cheesman (28:56.901)

Sure. That's good. Don't pee in your own pool or something. Yeah. So, the last data I saw was one in three relationships start at work. That's a lot of relationships. You're telling me that women cheat on a pretty similar number percentage basis as men do. That surprises me. I don't know if that surprises anyone else, but that's kind of surprising. Companies are now at risk because with social media, with things that can happen, companies are at risk.

Tiffany (28:59.566)

yeah, there we go, pee in your own pool.

Joel Cheesman (29:26.483)

But I don't think they've ever thought about how do we make stronger relationships? How do we make stronger? How do we keep us out of this situation? How should companies or should they start looking at relationships at work, cheating at work? How do we educate? How do we offer support or therapy? Like, could the CEO talk to somebody that the company sponsored to not be in this position? I just feel like company feels like

We're not a part of this whole relationship thing and maybe they should for a variety of reasons. Your thoughts.

Tiffany (29:58.339)

Well, can I throw out some stats? As you like that stat, and you were surprised by it, about 19 %

Joel Cheesman (30:00.243)

Of course.

The Chad (30:00.986)

Please.

Joel Cheesman (30:03.711)

Are you surprised by, well you do this. Chad, were you surprised by 19 % women, 23 % men cheat? No? Okay.

The Chad (30:08.994)

No, uh-uh. I mean, women want sex just as much as men do. They just go about it much differently than we do. We're idiots, right? And yeah, we go about it differently. Let's go that way.

Joel Cheesman (30:23.135)

Well, sex isn't cheating, right?

Tiffany (30:23.214)

Yeah, so we want to, we're wanting emotional connection, hot sex, validation and affirmation, thrill. Okay. So what I did is I got this Forbes advisor. I got this survey that seems, you know, fairly legitimate in regards of some of the polls that are out there. And they checked out 2000 employed Americans. So we got just 2000, but it's still a decent poll. And 50%.

So this isn't about affairs. This is about, you know, relationships of single people. 50 % say that workplace, or sorry, workplace romance, I just got the one, the wrong stat. Hold on.

60 % okay sorry about that, 60 % reported having some level of a workplace romance. So even if that was very very short. And then we're looking at 30 to 40 % were in a romance relationship at work. And the driving forces behind it according to this research is comfort, the three top, there's more. Comfort, lack of time of meeting other people, desire for shared work.

Joel Cheesman (31:19.337)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (31:33.658)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (31:39.887)

workplace, some sense of convenience, but that workplace relationships do have a negative impact. And the example here is that, because I jumped to this one instead of telling you the stats of, know, who's screw and who, 50 % say workplace romance impacted their sense of identity. It impacted their

Joel Cheesman (31:44.063)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (32:02.924)

work-life balance in a negative way that 52 percent reported co-workers treated them differently but then again 43 percent actually married the person and that's what it says here in this four so this is about this is the workplace romance not workplace affair okay and that 47 percent changed jobs in order to date a person at work 62 percent

Joel Cheesman (32:09.961)

Mm-hmm.

The Chad (32:14.586)

43 %?

Tiffany (32:32.95)

reported it to HR.

So, you know, we're looking at if you're losing, so out of that 30 to 40 % have a workplace romance. And if you're losing 40 % of those 30 to 40, because they're changing jobs to date that other person, it seems to me, you know, again, we're looking at single people, that it's worth putting it out there. One is, you know, if this is so relevant or prevalent, how do we address it?

Joel Cheesman (32:53.385)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (33:05.934)

That's the first one, because I want people out of my bedroom, right? And I would want my, I want my workplace out of my bedroom. want my politics or not politics, the government definitely out of my bedroom. So that's going to be a fine balance and discussing, um, the normality of dating and that we understand it and this is how we address it, or this is the concerns that it has. So again, if you're losing 43 or 47 % of those 30 to 40%.

Joel Cheesman (33:06.985)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (33:17.471)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (33:35.872)

I view that as a big, big impact according to the Forbes survey.

Joel Cheesman (33:40.585)

Sure, sure, that's a retention issue for sure, as well as efficiency and how much we're producing. mean, so it sounds to me like you're negative on relationships at work, if you're the company.

Tiffany (33:54.415)

where we meet people. it's how it how do we then traverse it? So if you have 47 % of people leaving so they can date that person, don't you think that's based upon the policy of you can't date someone at work? So if they

Joel Cheesman (33:56.263)

You

The Chad (34:00.068)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (34:10.597)

So you let people date, like you're openly, we're all good. And we'll have therapy when you get divorced after you get married to make sure that you hopefully stay at the company. You fail to mention that half of those get divorced after they get married.

Tiffany (34:22.798)

I think this could be a damned if you do damned if you don't type of situation, but I agree that we have to have a societal shift of the differences of relationship. I agree that the dating portion of the work environment is affected and then particularly as this can have strong negative effects when it's on the affair basis.

Joel Cheesman (34:48.927)

All right, Tiffany, I'll let you go out on this. for hanging with us for sure. This was a lot of fun. I'm just curious your future opinions of relationships. You're having a difficult time. Online dating you mentioned is a pain. Work life stuff, people working remotely, cats and dogs living together. Or is this just the same old song that we've been dealing with forever?

The Chad (35:05.892)

got incels everywhere. Jesus.

Joel Cheesman (35:12.323)

Are you bullish or bearish on relationships in the future? Is it just going to be Fembots and women dating chatbots? Get out your crystal ball and tell me what's in store for relationships.

Tiffany (35:26.094)

I have to have hope, right, that we can really form these wonderful bonds with another adult consensual human. And I want to advocate for that and how we can strengthen it with emotional maturity and wisdom and learning and growth within that. So I'm not willing to let that go. I will not.

Yeah, to improve success. Sometimes we need some tweaks and things outside of what society says is our typical. We have a high rate of women over the age of 50 now that are just saying, I'm not interested in men at all. And I'm doing really well and I'm really happy. And I would say I'm interested in men. My interest is lower because I got a good freaking life. But I also was burnt, not quite burnt at the stake, but I was burnt.

And so I have to look at, I willing to make myself vulnerable again? And I am. It's just some baby steps. So I believe with societal shifts, we can really have successful, loving relationships, romantic relationships.

The Chad (36:37.722)

Well, finally Joel, we got Tiffany on the show. Thanks again to Coldplay. We appreciate all that. Tiffany Anton aka Tiffany turned on aka sex therapist. Tiffany, if somebody wants to connect with you, I don't know, maybe read some articles, listen to some podcasts, where would you actually send

Joel Cheesman (36:46.015)

Thanks to Coldplay.

Tiffany (37:00.194)

Well, in regards to me, as I would send them to my website, which is neworlandsextherapy.com and my podcast, which I created all on my own, edited all on my own, not a tech. So I need like a golf handicap if you're listening to it. And you know, that's on Spotify and Apple. And again, that's Tiffany turned on. I think that my Ted X talk, which is titled, I love pleasure is free therapy. Like.

If you're having issues with libido's with erectile dysfunction, you know, check that out because it's going to give you a different perspective as to how to be a lover and how to shift up libido. So again, checking me out on my website, my podcast, and then my TEDx.

The Chad (37:53.306)

Do hear that, Cheeseman? You can throw away the blue chew.

Tiffany (37:56.886)

No, please don't touch me! My cardons!

Joel Cheesman (37:56.896)

God, you just opened up another can of worms. forget. Tiffany, meet you at Mugly's, drinks are on me. Chad, that's another one in the can. We out.

The Chad (37:57.912)

Hahaha!

The Chad (38:10.5)

We out.