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SmartRecruiters Unplugged with Interim CEO Rebecca Carr

To say the ATS business is a challenging one these days would be an understatement. Between mergers and acquisitions, slumbering IPO ambitions and figuring out the whole AI Revolution, staying ahead of the game is complex. That's why we invited SmartRecruiters interim CEO and CPO Rebecca Carr to the show. She's an industry veteran with a good story to tell and as an industry product person to the bone, she can add nuance to the landscape. Covering everything from the hibernating IPO speculation to the botched acquisition with iCIMS to her time with - wait for it - Branchout, a high flying player from over a decade ago, who flamed out and die at the hand of Facebook before it really caught fire. It'a a walk down Memory Land, and a glimpse into the future that's a must-listen.


PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION


Intro: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HRs most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.


Joel: Oh yeah. What's up everybody? It is the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Cheeseman.


Chad: Hello.


Joel: Joined as always, Chad Sowash. And we are excited to welcome Rebecca Carr, Chief Product Officer and acting CEO at SmartRecruiters. Rebecca, welcome to HRs most dangerous podcast.


Rebecca Carr: Thank you for having me.


Chad: She looks very pensive. She's like, what am I doing here?


Rebecca Carr: Yeah.


Chad: This is...


[laughter]


Rebecca Carr: This is fun, this is a fun part of the day.


Joel: She's like who do I need to fire for this one. Who do I need to fire for this one.


Chad: This is gonna be the easiest part of your day, I promise.


Rebecca Carr: Oh, for sure.


Joel: So Rebecca, a lot of our listeners don't know who you are. Give us a little window into what makes you tick as a person.


Rebecca Carr: Love products tech nerd. Been in HR way too long, but haven't we all?


Joel: Amen.


Chad: Yes. Yeah.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah, my whole career was a recruiter turned product manager actually in there, by the way, I built Facebook games. Fun story.


[laughter]


Chad: Okay, we wanna hear about that.


Joel: Hold on.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. You can hear about that.


Joel: Don't get into the business stuff. My first question is gonna rock it. So keep talking about your personal stuff.


Rebecca Carr: Mama too, love pilates, gives me peace. You know you got to with this industry.


Chad: Joel loves pilates too I don't know if you know that.


Joel: Are we talking teens are we talking toddlers. Are we talking outta the house. Like the kids.


Rebecca Carr: We're talking a 5-year-old and a 3-year-old.


Chad: Oh my God.


Joel: And you're a CEO and CPO.


Rebecca Carr: I have a great husband.


[laughter]


Joel: Do you sleep? Do you sleep? Good God.


Rebecca Carr: I do. Thankfully 'cause I moved to the East coast recently.


Chad: Nice.


Rebecca Carr: And prior to that I was living in California and operating a European company. And that took a lot out of me.


Joel: I can imagine.


Chad: I would say, yeah.


Rebecca Carr: But now I'm on the East coast and I have balance and I do kid drop off and then I don't see them for the rest of the day.


Joel: Love it.


[laughter]


Chad: That sounds like utopia.


Joel: All right. I had a jaw drop moment when I was doing some research on you.


Rebecca Carr: Oh, you did research on me. This is gonna be fun.


Joel: You talked about being a long time veteran. As are we. You spent time at BranchOut.


Rebecca Carr: Oh now we're going back.


Chad: That's where we're going. That's where we're going.


Rebecca Carr: I love this. This is great. Okay I'm ready.


Joel: Thank the hell... I mean, I was begging for interviews with BranchOut back in the day.


Rebecca Carr: You were? I would have gave you one. Rick didn't wanna give you an interview.


Joel: They would only talk to TechCrunch or like CNBC or.


[laughter]


Chad: For the... You mean the five minutes that they were alive.


[laughter]


Joel: For those who don't know, talk about what it, what the company did and the epic flame out after the Facebook changes, I guess for lack of a better word. But talk about your BranchOut experience.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. Us and Identified. We tried hard on that one. You remember them?


Joel: Oh, yeah.


Rebecca Carr: Which ironically, Charlie Nelson came over from identified to SmartRecruiters. And then I came over from Jobvite to SmartRecruiters, so that, oh, we competed again, but in a different context. But anyway, BranchOut. It was essentially an app within Facebook that was attempting to create a...


Chad: Bring jobs.


Joel: Spam.


Chad: And network.


Rebecca Carr: Well I'll tell you, that was my... That was my... No, but it was attempting to compete with LinkedIn. Like basically they wanted to have like a professional profile that was in parallel to your Facebook profile.


Joel: And they raised that much money.


Rebecca Carr: Oh.


Joel: At the time it was huge, now it's like Tuesday.


Rebecca Carr: It was like near or a 100 million or something like that. At the time.


Chad: It was crazy.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. It, there was a lot of issues there, but it was an interesting idea actually, which was if people are spending a lot of time on Facebook, why not bring them jobs? If there was like an app that felt a bit protected where you could build a profile that was professional. And you could share that and apply to jobs, then you could do it all in one experience. And in the back-end there was actually essentially like an early CRM that then we sold to big companies, some of whom are at the show. Where they used to source people on Facebook. And so I ran product.


Chad: Well, okay. So I mean, I think that was one of the very first in the space that we found out that you couldn't lean too hard on a big platform like with Google's Panda and how that screwed so much SEO. And this obviously with BranchOut and then also BeKnown Monster had BeKnown.


Rebecca Carr: BeKnown. BeKnown same time.


Chad: Yeah.


Joel: Sharecropping is a dangerous business for sure.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. Well, the biggest challenge was one, getting people to actually like, get out of I'm in Facebook mode. This is like where I'm sharing pictures of my dog and kids.


Joel: Yeah.


Chad: Yeah. Well that, and that's not easy.


Rebecca Carr: It is hard.


Chad: Because you have safe spaces and then you have professional spaces.


Rebecca Carr: Exactly. And regardless of if it's like an app, people still didn't trust that there wasn't some visibility into their personal life. The data was extremely unclean at the time. So this was back in the day when you entered in your location on Facebook, it was like, I live in SF or San Fran or San Francisco. So like the normalization of like every single data element...


Chad: Just didn't happen.


Rebecca Carr: Hard. [laughter] but Identified did it right actually in the beginning they said, you know what, we're gonna focus on like one job profile. Nurses. Because they're on Facebook and they're not on LinkedIn. And we're just gonna focus on normalizing all the healthcare data that we can possibly get. And they were more successful. BranchOut just went a little too broad there. And we played that whole like, who would you rather work with?


[laughter]


Joel: They branched out a little too far. Get it.


Chad: So let's talk about that a little bit because I mean, there's just so many learnings for current startups. First and foremost, don't lean too hard on a big brand that could fuck you, number one. Number two, being able to spread the TAM that quick. Just doesn't make sense. And we see obviously many companies that are here today who spread the TAM too quick. So, I mean, what do we have to do to learn from history. [laughter] 'Cause we just keep repeating it.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. Arguably SmartRecruiters did something similar too. I mean, we brought an ATS to market from a free product, probably could have focused a little bit more on the industry and the segment we wanted to serve. We went overseas extremely quickly, which actually has ended up benefiting, coming to our benefit. But as a product leader, it's probably one of the hardest things you do. You get a couple big customers right in the beginning that pull you in one direction versus another. You want to make them happy 'cause you need them to reference you but none of them are like each other.


Chad: Which take you all over the place.


Rebecca Carr: Which takes you all over the place. It's hard to pick one 'cause there's a lot of risk in that. You're operating on, and especially as a startup, a limited amount of capital.


Chad: But let's talk about discipline at that point, right?


Rebecca Carr: Yeah.


Chad: You have limited amount of capital, but I mean, it's incredibly important to be disciplined. Right out of the gate, right? So I mean, you guys you didn't, but then you reined it back in.


Rebecca Carr: We reined it back in. Yeah.


Chad: So talk a little bit about that journey.


Rebecca Carr: Well I think what we realized was it's important to have an ICP. [laughter] no.


Joel: Lesson for the kids.


Chad: If you like some money, that would be good.


Rebecca Carr: No, I mean it is... I think for us it was about one identifying a segment we wanted to play in. Like the unit economics of acquiring an SMB versus an enterprise are wildly different, not just at the industry level, but like the country level. Very, very different, and understanding and unpacking that data is step one. I think we were moving so quickly because we were seeing so much inbound. We were just reacting and like actually putting some data around everything that you do and studying it and spending time studying it. Very important. There were things that came outta that analysis that actually shocked us. We have massive, massive software and technology brands that use the SmartRecruiters platform. But when you look at things like market growth over the next couple years. Total ticket volume, where they're struggling, where there's the most overlap in product strategy. We still see a lot of success in software and tech, but not as much as we do in retail and hospitality.


Rebecca Carr: They both are doing theoretically high velocity hiring 'cause tons of people are applying to these big tech brands. Tons of people have to apply to retail. But actually the like level of depth that you need to go on any one feature is wildly different. And figuring out how to balance that successfully is something we've had to do by changing how we structure our engineering teams. And the types of resource that... And dollar allocation we put toward each of them and...


Chad: Well, you can't create one product that covers them all.


Rebecca Carr: No. I can't be something for everyone. That's for sure. And frankly, it's a strategy that we've only recently started to embrace with embedded partners, and we're not the only ones. Workday starting to like branch out a little bit more.


Chad: Heard of them.


Rebecca Carr: You heard of them? Yeah. [laughter] they're, yeah. But like, I'm not gonna be the best people analytics platform on the earth. If Visier wants to white label under the scenes. Great. Now I don't have to have engineers there. I can rely on like an actual best of breed platform there. They're willing to white label the commercials look good for everybody, including our customers.


Chad: Well that's their our expertise too.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And they'll continue to innovate there. Instead of me innovating now on that and then innovating again in four years. [laughter] Like, it's... But that's what I would have to do in order to serve everybody.


Chad: That's the general product cycle for a core platform though, right? When you come up with like a new "product" which is really just a feature, it goes out, everybody's like, ah, and then four years later it's like, oh, we should probably update that.


Rebecca Carr: We should go back to that. [laughter] Yeah. I mean, the market's moving fast enough we should.


Joel: Talk about how you're looking at, I guess sort of the economy as a whole. You guys, like headcount wise, from what I can tell last couple years have stayed pretty constant. You haven't had the big layoffs. You haven't had like a major earthquake in terms of headcount.


Rebecca Carr: No.


Joel: What has been the strategy and how has the bigger economy at large or the marketplace at large directed that?


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. I mean we've seen a little bit of a reduction a couple... Two years ago or so. Around the same time a lot of other people started doing it, but mostly because we divested in certain product areas that we didn't need anymore, not like your traditional riff. I think what the refinement of the ICP helped us. It was right at that moment that we actually said, you know what, we're doing way too much and if we actually focus our dollars, we're gonna see short term growth in the segments that we already know we have great product market fit.


Rebecca Carr: If we put all our product and engineering resource there, we're driving good impact, but we were, frankly, our business strategy has always been to nearshore, so to speak. A lot of our R&D. So our R&D team's actually grown dramatically and continues to grow. But in a lower cost market and very high tenure. I'm like proud to say our engineering team is, I think our average tenure is 4.9 years. Something like that. Pretty good. I mean, so there's lots of context, subject matter expertise in a market. We've got over 200 engineers now that are working on that on a company of 500. That's actually a pretty good allocation. Yeah.


Joel: So you've pulled back a little bit on sales people. Is that a response to less market demand? Are you more efficient around sales? Like, talk about that decision.


Chad: Different GTM?


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. I think we've...


Joel: Year of efficiency.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. I mean year of efficiency, but like...


Chad: You're leading the witness.


[laughter]


Joel: I'm helpful I think.


Chad: No you're not.


Rebecca Carr: Well, I mean, you could get into the details of net magic number. And all the things that our...


Chad: Yes. Exactly. Exactly.


Rebecca Carr: That our investors actually wanna want to see.


[laughter]


Joel: BranchOut.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah, I mean the reality is if you play in the enterprise space, you grab a lot of enterprise deals, those are one deal. One core team. You don't need the same volume of reps you might need in like a mid-market play, and if we've got good hunters that know our business and have been with us for a long time, our European team, very high tenure reps, they've built good relationships in the market. We did a lot of great account based marketing, you can do it pretty efficiently. You just need to win 'em and you need to win 'em with good products. So we've invested a lot more in R&D to have the good product to drive up our win rates, which are good.


Joel: Yeah. You've increased service. So servicing those accounts, you've invested on that end it looks like.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah I mean, we've invested in good partners there too we outsource a good piece of our professional services group to the AMSs of the world, the CLOs of the world, that sort of thing. Frankly that revenue we're a tech company, it's not interesting. And it might be positive margin, but like, what's it really doing other than just your holding cost that you don't really need. And especially if it starts branching out and those resources start doing more like traditional customer success, then you have direct impact on your net magic number. So we've started to outsource a little bit more. We're gonna continue to do that. But yeah. We've invested a lot in retaining our customers and not having a leaky bucket. Turns out it helps.


[laughter]


Chad: Hell yeah. It's easier to keep...


Rebecca Carr: It's a lot easier to keep going up.


Chad: A customer than to acquire a new one. So you've been talking about products. I had an acquisition of Jobpal. How does that actually, how's that bled into, if yes or no, into the actual product itself? Joel talking about, year of efficiency, talk about tech efficiency. How has that helped? Where has it helped?


Rebecca Carr: Specifically Jobpal we turned into a product called SmartPal. We've seen some growth there, but frankly, a lot of the acquisitions that we've made, it's expensive and costly to integrate new tech into your stack. There's a lot of enhancements that need to be made. Our big sort of big relaunch of the original Jobpal stack with a lot more is what we're working on this year, actually. But yeah, it's... Acquisition in most of the areas of our space would not be my first go-to these days. [laughter]


Rebecca Carr: I mean there's products out there. Good point solutions. But integrating the people, retaining those people, aligning those customers to your core stack, not the most efficient experience in the world and/or emotion. And so for Jobpal in particular, it's been, I'd say could have been more successful than it was but we're getting there. We're sort of rewriting it.


Chad: So let's talk about SmartRecruiters and then obviously talk about where we're at today and moving forward. So, SmartRecruiters, literally, and we saw this out of a lot of the core platforms, the greenhouses and whatnot, that came a little bit later, a little bit fashion forward, a little cooler than some of the older platforms. But yet they were still predicated on the process, methodologies of the old world recruiting. We're seeing new breed.


Rebecca Carr: New breed.


Chad: New breed that's coming out. How in the hell are you guys gonna compete with that? Because it's gonna be faster?


Joel: Are you putting Paradox and Fountain in that bucket of new competitors?


Chad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I would definitely say that. So how would... How can you actually keep up with that in today's... I mean, 'cause Moore's Law is even speeding faster. GPUs are just killing this game. I mean how are you gonna do that?


Rebecca Carr: Well, one thing. We need to get out of this whole, I have to own the user experience of everything mindset. I mean, we all sort of went into this like...


Chad: It's coming from a product person, by the way I gotta... That's revolutionary.


Joel: The heart.


[laughter]


Rebecca Carr: Well, I mean, the reality is we serve in recruiting a recruiter might be our core persona. But the reality is most of our users are not recruiters, they're employees, they're hiring managers, they're interviewers. They're people that don't care about recruiting until it's time. And the last thing they wanna do is log into my ATS, I mean I fought that battle for a long time. Like, well, what if it's more beautiful? No like it's not their flow of work.


Chad: But that was really what it was mainly predicated on. For many of the newer applicant tracking systems is just that it's more sexy. We've got rounded corners as opposed to squared corners.


[laughter]


Rebecca Carr: We might have some more, like it's prettier colors, a little bit like easier on the eye. Bigger buttons.


Chad: So how do you keep up with the new breed?


Rebecca Carr: You open yourself aggressively. I mean, if I could make SmartRecruiters fully API-able tomorrow, I would. And I'm on that journey. I mean, for a long time we led the way and we were maybe 30, 40% open to a public API. This year, hope is to get to more like 80, 85. To my point on, we can't serve everybody we can in a world where there's more movement toward gig and fractional work, which means more kind of custom, more personalized experiences. They don't wanna build the back office 'cause that's really expensive. But if they can control the UI and I can give them a design system, not just APIs, but like components that they can plug and play to build that experience, then I can meet a lot more people where they need to be candidates and hiring managers alike.


Chad: But do you do that because that sounds very complex for the normal like HR/TA.


Rebecca Carr: We rolled out our first version of our design system back in January.


Chad: Okay.


Rebecca Carr: Great feedback from partners. We are testing it with the Visiers and the HiredScores of the world.


Chad: Nice. Nice.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. Good stuff.


Chad: Nice little tie into a Workday there. That was nice.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah I try great product, but it needs to just be a part of who we are. And for a long time we held control over wanting to be, even for integrated partners, their experience, just like everybody, we're gonna be agnostic. Everybody's gonna look the same. We're gonna control what that UI looks like. We just can't anymore. And so I think opening up that experience just and making it easy to plug and play point solutions. So like app like experiences for integration. Not these like a $100,000 custom middleware connector thingamabobs tech is better than that. Like, frankly, all of the other industries that surround us from MarTech to FinTech are doing this. They have API first products that are successful in the market.


Chad: For a very long time.


Rebecca Carr: Yes. For yeah, like we can get there. And we have to, we're gonna be forced to do that as work evolves.


Chad: Well the Workdays, the bigger core platforms, have to be forced into that before anybody else can because they're the ones that really rule the world. So, I mean it's hard to force that. Is it not?


Rebecca Carr: Yes. They will play a big role, but they are to a certain extent. I mean, this is... I mean, David Summers has come out on and been very vocal about the fact that they need to open their ecosystem. And frankly they have been evolving to a certain extent. Remember when Workday Studio was like it.


[laughter]


Chad: Yeah.


Rebecca Carr: Like now they do have APIs and they have started to share more. And they have been open to partnerships with companies that might directly compete with them in one area versus another if it serves a different purpose in ICP. And that kind of collaboration is, I think, gonna make us all better 'cause it's gonna force us to come to the table and just frankly have better infrastructure.


Joel: In 2021, you guys raised $110 million.


Rebecca Carr: We did.


Joel: Valuation of...


Chad: Oh, that's a lot of money.


Joel: $1.5 billion. Obviously talk of IPO surrounded you as well as your brethren in Greenhouse and iCIMS. I'm sure you're tired of talking about the IPO question, but give us a current state of affairs with going public.


Rebecca Carr: Is there someone IPOing right now?


[laughter]


Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Is it a waiting game? Is it like, what is... Is it a holding pattern? Certainly there has to be some sort of liquidation event when you raise that kind of money.


Rebecca Carr: I mean sure. I think you raise that kind of money. There's expectations from investors. That's natural. It's a horrible time to IPO. We're certainly not having that conversation. Do I think that there's gonna be a lot of market consolidation? Yes. Do I think that acquisitions like HiredScore by Workday or a domino that's gonna fall like tip the market? Yes, I do. That's normal. That's what you expect in recessions like this. Does SmartRecruiters come up in conversations around the world? Of course. Like, this is actually a moment when we, most of the vendors on this floor get the most phone calls. It's a question of who they are. Can they pay the price that they need to pay. Is there a good cultural and product fix fit that's actually gonna... The right strategic decision for the buyer? And that I think there's a couple options there on the table that could exist for many of us. Yeah.


Chad: So the elephant in the room, which Joel just totally passed over, is the botched acquisition that we talked about. As we know, and you don't have to validate or confirm that was with iCIMS. So, okay. A little head nod that's okay.


[laughter]


Rebecca Carr: I didn't, I just said...


Joel: Don't do that to her. Don't do that to her.


Rebecca Carr: I did not head nod, I said okay if that's what you think, if that's what you think.


Chad: I think it might've been a shrug I'm sorry.


Rebecca Carr: Like, maybe. I dunno.


Chad: I will pull back. Anyway, so I mean, that would've been a liquidation event.


Rebecca Carr: Somebody told me the other day that I was be... That Beamery and us were gonna merge. That was another one that's been flying around.


Chad: That would be the dumbest thing anybody could ever do, that's an anchor.


[laughter]


Rebecca Carr: But I tell you. The amount of rumor that exists in this space though is exceptional.


Joel: It's like giving a cat a bath, that deal would've been.


Chad: But this one's not a rumor. So [laughter] when we're talking about... We're talking about liquidation events, I mean, you guys... And I mean many of the unicorn/unicorns are out there looking for at least partners. Right? To the very least. So talk about that. IPO I think is not even a conversation today.


Rebecca Carr: Not for any of us. I mean, but great acquisitions start with great partnerships. Period. And we're in a moment, as I mentioned, where we're starting to look at a lot of embedded partnerships across the industry. And some of them are gonna take off and they're gonna be great and there's gonna be a natural moment there. And we are very good about sort of picking the partners that are gonna match our customers that are gonna... That are gonna serve them good value, that are gonna be great tech collaborations. And if some of them work out, sure I'll have that conversation and I'd be stupid not to, frankly. Given where the moment is, but when that moment comes, it'll come. And it hasn't come yet for SmartRecruiters. So.


Joel: So you've had your crystal ball out a little bit. You've talked about API focus. You've talked about consolidation, take out the crystal ball on SmartRecruiters. What do things look like at the company in say, two, three years?


Rebecca Carr: I think, it's a hard one to answer. It depends on where we see growth. I'd say in the next six months as a leading European ATS, we offer something that a lot of multinationals haven't been able to get from best of breed. We could grow if we continue to double down in some of those markets and still be a key player.


Chad: Yeah what where are your biggest markets?


Rebecca Carr: AMEA for sure.


Joel: AMEA.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah, I mean that's where now more than half of our revenue comes from and we're seeing a lot of growth in APAC. There's a lot of point solutions that serve a single country. But when you start crossing borders, there aren't a lot of best of breed solutions.


Chad: That sucks. That's hard.


Rebecca Carr: It's hard.


Chad: That's hard work.


Rebecca Carr: It's extremely hard. And it's... There's been a lot of North American players that have tried it and failed.


Chad: Yes. Yes.


Rebecca Carr: And I actually think the fact that we're successful there makes us very attractive to a lot of big North American companies as a partner, just a tech partner or a strategic partner long term. And so I think you're gonna see some growth from us overseas. That's where we've invested a lot. I think that that could serve us really well from a partner perspective and might be an interesting carrot for someone. But it's my crystal ball is we'll see. I mean, we'll see.


Chad: That's the only way to go to Europe is to acquire a successful company.


Rebecca Carr: Except if you were us for some reason.


Joel: And Portuguese...


Rebecca Carr: Or you have a French founder like me.


Chad: Well, I was gonna say... [laughter] Okay. So that being said, the great segue. So Jerome was very hands-on, an amazing dude...


Joel: The founder.


Chad: Empathetic dude, loving dude. Is he kind of like a guy... Is he kinda like your go-to guy now. I know he is chairman.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah, he's chairman. Yeah.


Chad: Is he like a go-to guy still for you? 'Cause you've been at SmartRecruiters for a while. You left...


Rebecca Carr: I left.


Chad: And you came back.


Rebecca Carr: I did.


Chad: Right? So tell me about that because that's an interesting relationship.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah. Well I remember the first time I met Jerome, my employee number is 19.


Chad: Me too.


[laughter]


Rebecca Carr: Yeah, it was back in 2014. He's a visionary. He is, he loves this space. He has a passion for the problem. And I do too. I left because I needed to see how another company ticked. I think that's an...


Chad: A background company.


Rebecca Carr: Background checks. [laughter] Hey.


Joel: Another unicorn that she just jumped on.


Rebecca Carr: Another unicorn, founder led French Founder led.


Chad: Yeah. Yeah.


Joel: Oui. Oui.


Chad: Wow. Somebody has a profile.


Joel: Somebody has a type.


Rebecca Carr: That's funny. No, but I actually at Checker, I worked in their incubator group building adjacent products to background check. And I did a... They're are payroll products, so it was cool. Good experience came back 'cause I really missed recruiting tech. Like it's just what I know and what I love. And there's a lot of problems to be solved here. Jerome is absolutely still involved. Still has a big vision. Great like support system and mentor for me. But it's a... I still have all the other board members in my ear operational stuff.


Chad: Oh, I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do.


Rebecca Carr: No, I mean he's very supportive of the vision and the focus that we've provided this company. Very excited about some of the partnerships that we're pursuing and still a big contributor to the conversation for sure.


Joel: That is Rebecca Carr everybody, CPO and CEO.


Chad: Oh man I could talk for hours.


Rebecca Carr: There we go.


Joel: She's a busy woman. She's a busy woman.


Chad: I know. Damn it.


Joel: Rebecca, for the listeners out there that want to know more about SmartRecruiters, where would you send them?


Rebecca Carr: Smartrecruiters.com.


[laughter]


Joel: Love it. And I don't think we said...


Rebecca Carr: Predictable.


Joel: AI once in that whole interview.


Chad: I don't think so.


Rebecca Carr: Did we not? Oh, that's a bummer.


Joel: I think so. But we said BranchOut about 28 times.


Chad: All I gotta say is I hope that soon they take the interim off and we can just have the CEO role so that you can just run.


Rebecca Carr: I appreciate the support. Thank you.


Chad: We would love to be able to see that.


Rebecca Carr: Yeah, yeah.


Joel: We're rooting for Rebecca. And with that, another one is in the can...


Chad: We out.


Joel: Live from Unleash in Las Vegas. We out.


Outro: Thank you for listening to what's it called? The podcast. The Chad. The Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting, they talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know. And yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese. Not one cheddar, blue, nacho, Pepper Jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com. Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. It's so weird. We out.

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