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Voice of Innovation Journey and the Future of Recruiting

The podcast episode features Darrian Mikell, co-founder and CEO of Qualifi, discussing the evolution of his company and its impact on the recruiting industry. Mikell shares insights on Qualifi's journey from a simple phone interview automation tool to an end-to-end screening solution, emphasizing the importance of capturing the voice of candidates beyond resumes. He also delves into the challenges of market education and the potential of using AI and automation in recruiting while maintaining a focus on diversity and inclusion. The conversation also touches on Mikell's personal journey, his experience working with family in business, and his competitive spirit, reflecting both in his athletic background and business ambitions.

Intro: Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joe: Oh, yeah. What's up, everybody? It is Ron Burgundy's favorite podcast, aka the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host...

Chad: San Diego.

Joe: Joel Cheeseman joined as always, the Sam to my Frodo, Chad Sowash is in the house.

Chad: Hello.

Joe: We are recording live from TA Week at the Qualifi booth. And what better guest to have in the Qualifi booth than the co-founder and CEO, Darrian Mikell of Qualifi.

Darrian Mikell: In the flesh.

Chad: In the flesh.

Darrian Mikell: In the flesh. What's going on?

Joe: Welcome to the podcast. You're a two-time guest on the show at this point.

Darrian Mikell: I am.

Joe: If you get to five, you get a velvet jacket. So stick with it. Stick with it, kid. Yeah, stick with it.

Chad: Well, we got to talk about the first time though. It was on Firing Squad and it was a double applause, was it not? I think was...

Darrian Mikell: I think so.

Joe: Double rainbow.

Darrian Mikell: Smooth. It was smooth.

Joe: Double rainbow.

Darrian Mikell: That's when I was pitching all the time. I was ready for it.

Chad: Are you not pitching all the time now?

Darrian Mikell: I'm still pitching everyday. Everyday I'm pitching. I was probably coming off a fundraiser.

Chad: Everyday is... [chuckle]

Darrian Mikell: So I was like, all right, I got to be all my Ps and Qs, yeah.

Joe: So Darrian, a lot of our listeners don't know you, even though you've been on the show before. Those that don't know, get us acquainted with you. What makes you tick? And please mention how many kids you've brought into this world while you're at it.

Darrian Mikell: I'm stuck trying to cut the train off, well we have three kids. I'll start there.

Chad: You know there's a medical procedure for that.

Darrian Mikell: I'm very aware of that.


Darrian Mikell: That's all I'll say about that. But yeah, I'm Darrian Mikell. This is a hell of an intro. I'm Darrian Mikell, co-founder, CEO of Qualifi. We're the phone interview company. We help capture the voice of candidates beyond the resume. We automate that phone interview step in the hiring process so that recruiting teams can get to know their candidates quicker, make decisions faster. And then now we help schedule the ones that you like and get them to live interviews that much more seamlessly as well. So we started with the phone interview and now have an end-to-end screening solution.

Chad: Sexy.

Joe: The pride of Indianapolis area startups, by the way.

Chad: It is, I'm saying.

Joe: He's being very humble. But local kid done good. We're really proud of you for sure. Proud of you.

Darrian Mikell: I appreciate it.

Chad: So talk about where you started and where you're on your way to, right? 'Cause you've had this evolution of who you are, what you want to be, and it can't happen overnight, right? I mean...

Darrian Mikell: Certainly not.

Chad: You don't have so much funding for God's sake. So where did you start? Where do you guys want to go?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, I was just literally talking to somebody at breakfast. I feel like it's been I'm still pretty young, right? But I feel like it's been a long journey. We've been at this for close to officially five years, but technically around like seven years when the idea, the inception of the idea. And it started based off a personal experience. So I was at another indie based tech startup company called Viral Launch. And I was employee number one or two there. And from starting with the CEO, myself, we grew to about 70 people on the team. And my responsibility was over like their internal operations. I was doing all the things and recruiting...

Chad: As you're doing the startup?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, everyone... I would say everyone wears a lot of hats in the startup. I felt like I probably wore the most hats at that time. And the recruiting HR function was one of those hats. And that's where I saw the pain points around all of recruiting. But especially I noticed a pattern of like, hey, I'm asking these same questions over and over again in the phone interview. Why don't I just record it, send it to people, let them respond? And then the fun part, I think we're spoiled in indie. No one really has that bad of a commute. But I had like a 45 minute commute to work. Yeah, we're in California where there's like way worse than...

[overlapping conversation]

Chad: That's brutal. That's around the corner in California.

Joe: Yeah, there's a stop sign up the street 45 minutes.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. So like 45 minutes was a long time. And I'm always efficiency driven person. I'm always looking for tools or solutions to like plug even the smallest gaps in the process. And so I was like, hey, I have this 45 minute commute to work, I listen to podcasts, like could I be more productive even in my commute? And I was like, if I had these recorded, I could listen to interviews like a podcast. And so that was where the idea started for me. And I took it to my brother who's my co-founder and it resonated with him 'cause he was doing recruiting as well in his own right, both in the food industry and in senior care, both high turnover. And so we thought that there was something there that we wanted to start with.

Chad: So that was the start.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah.

Chad: Where are you guys? Where you went out? I mean, what's the big evolution steps been thus far? You got funding. I'm sure that fueled some of it.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah.

Joe: 7.7 million.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. Totally.

Joe: Five years old. What's next? When's that 25 million series B coming, series A?

Darrian Mikell: Hopefully at some point we're grinding right now. 2023 was a slog for a lot of companies and we made it through. Luckily we have more of that money still in the bank and we can continue to grow the company. But I think the evolution started with like a very finite idea of like, Hey, record interviews, send it to candidates. They record and send it back basically. And now I think the bigger vision centers around the totality. One of the hiring process we've since expanded, like I mentioned into the end to end screening aspects. So we added scheduling and live video interviewing. So I like to say we take you from your first interview to your last interview. But what I'm more excited about, more fascinated about is the idea that phone interviews in the traditional sense are still very traditional.

Darrian Mikell: People just talk on the phone. They scribble down notes as they're talking. And I just think about how much data gets lost to the ether because people don't have a good way of capturing that information yet. There's so much more information to learn about a candidate that you can do in a phone interview beyond a resume. We have all the tools from AI perspective centered around scraping resumes, figuring out how to assess candidates there. But there's a lot of rich information that gets lost in phone reviews. And so I'm really excited about the potential there so yeah.

Joe: Paint for us real quickly. If I'm a candidate, my interaction with Qualifi, walk us through that. You said from the first interview to the last. What is that like for a candidate?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. So the typical entry point for a candidate is they've already applied to specific job and what they'll receive through Qualifi is a notification saying, from the recruiter, basically either a text or an email saying, Hey, we got your application. We wanna learn more about you. We want this experience to be really convenient. So we prerecorded these questions for you, click this link to get started. So they click the link, they see a branded landing page branded to the employer with the simple instructions on what to expect in terms of this phone interview. And then ultimately when they're ready after they've read these instructions, they have now two options. We started with one they have two options now, one we'll call you. So like they can hit the start button and our system will dial their phone. Or we've now added the convenience of taking the interview right there in the web interface.

Darrian Mikell: So on their mobile phone or on desktop they can still respond with their own voice and capture however they wanna sell themselves, however they wanna respond through those two convenient mechanisms. And so they'll hear the questions from the recruiter. We also have AI generated voice in the platform as well so recruiters can type out their questions and have a really polished AI voice as well. But most people are still using their own authentic voice, and they'll hear that and they can respond in a very conversational way. Yet the recruiter's not there live on the other side. And so it's pretty seamless in that way.

Chad: So we need a Chad and Cheese... We've had our voices cloned, so we'll go ahead. We should talk about...

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, I've always thought about having celebrity voices eventually in the platform, so if you guys wanna like...

Chad: Yes.

Joe: They'll be licensing of those voices for sure.

Chad: Yes, exactly. Yes. Who do you want to read this out to? To your Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, Chad and Cheese?

Darrian Mikell: I always say Snoop Dogg is the one I always reference.

Chad: Who?

Joe: Snoop?

Chad: Oh, yes yes.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, Snoop. Like you'd just love to take a interview with Snoop, yeah.

Chad: That would be amazing. He'd just put you at ease.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, exactly.

Chad: I mean, that's exactly what you want.

Joe: So keep going. I'm a recruiter, I've got all these candidates that I sent this invite out to. I've funneled it down to maybe two or three that I want to come in. Then what happens? Is it to schedule an interview, a live person? Does it keep being automated?

Darrian Mikell: So after the phone interview, one recruiters can integrate Qualifi at any step in the journey. Typically, it's at the point of application or just after they've applied. So they take that phone interview after they've applied and then it all gets sent back to the recruiter. The recruiter dashboard allows you to see all the candidates that have completed interviews. We help score based off of the survey questions that we asked before, and then we also summarize the full interview. So you can see the highlights from each candidate and dig a little further.

Chad: Is that like an LLM kind of a thing?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah.

Chad: You ingest all the transcript and then you hit it, okay.

Darrian Mikell: Exactly. Yeah. We ingest the transcript and bring out like the top five bullet points, the highlights from that interview. And so as you're looking at all your candidates you can hover over the summary and see like, oh, this candidate has five years experience at this company doing this thing. And like has these different bullet points. You're like, oh, I wanna dig in further. Without that review time is five minutes or so anyway, it's way shorter than a standard phone interview. But that helps, bring your focus into the right candidates still. And then from there, if you're like, Hey, I wanna give this candidate the thumbs up, I wanna move them to the next steps, you can hit schedule this candidate right in the platform. And it'll send a follow up to the candidate where they can self-select the best time that works for them. And then if that next step is a live virtual panel interview we have what we call Qualifi video meetings, which is a browser based video interviewing solution to mitigate that, oh, do I have to download some app or troubleshoot with Zoom? It's just browser based. So it's by frictionless to, get in to...

Joe: Is there an automated rejection component as well? Because we hear a lot about ghosting and automating from a company.

Darrian Mikell: So it's not automated, but there is dispositioning in the platform. So yeah, if you don't like the candidate, you give them the thumbs down and you can just easily hit, Hey, it's not a good fit for us right now.

Chad: So on the other side not the rejection but say that they had a great interview and they meet all the requirements can you just...

Darrian Mikell: Automatically push them through?

Chad: Yeah. Automatically push them into an interview scheduling?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. Right now we don't have that built in but that's something that, I think is very exciting on the forefront for us. It's like, how do we streamline that even further. And we've always from day one, like with AI or anything automated, wanted to be really careful because diversity and inclusion is very integral to how we operate as a company. And we don't want to be part of like, kind of our competitive, how we compete and talk about our product differentiated from other interviewing services is on the level of mitigating bias. And so we don't wanna be problematic and especially reject candidates that shouldn't have been rejected. But I think there's an opportunity to like say, Hey, we feel confident that this candidate is a strong candidate to get them scheduled. You can review them for yourself and see but I think there's an opportunity for us for sure.

Chad: How much has DEI been a part of just, kinda of like the love language of pitching companies and is there still traction there because we're seeing in obviously the broader scape where it's being demonized by states, by politicians, by even some moguls, like Elon Musk, right? So is it still kinda like the love language of TA, is that still important to them or are they starting to push away from the table?

Darrian Mikell: I don't feel anybody at least I haven't seen anybody pushing away. The way I talk about it is, it's definitely where we stand on but it's not the thing that we lead with. Like what it seems like is recruiters care about moving the core metric. And right now the core metric is centered around speed and efficiency. And so that's where we specialize in but when it comes to how do we differentiate from other platforms how do we shine? And for like, videos like who we typically go after. It's like, that's how we talk about ourselves differently and say, Hey, yes, video is asynchronous solution but with that you're also getting information that might not be helpful in making the best quality of decisions. And so let's mitigate that to some degree so that way you can make a better decision. I think there's like a huge opportunity for us to add more features around that. But then I think my hope is that it continues to grow in terms of importance for organizations 'cause right now it doesn't seem like it's a budgeted initiative in a lot of organizations. TA cares about it, but they're putting dollars behind other things first is what it seems like.

Chad: Well, if they care about it, they will put dollars behind it.

Darrian Mikell: Right. Yeah.

Chad: And I think that's the big difference that we've seen over the years is that there's a lot of fluff and pomp and circumstance and it's total bullshit. It's like if you believe in it, then put money and resources into it.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. And I think at least there was a wave. So let, we will see what the wave has produced. Obviously there's more people in those positions, but one I've learned that DEI positions all have different areas of emphasis. Some is very central to recruiting some it's about the current employee experience. Some it's about vendor relationships and like who their suppliers are. And so every organization might have a different focal point when it comes to their DEI practices. And so that's been a learning curve for us too, is like figuring out is this a good point of contact for us to go you know, start a relationship with. How much influence do they have with talent acquisition?

Joe: And you talk about demand from the DEI perspective. I'm curious about overall demand. We read in the news, everyday layoffs. Like huge layoffs. From your perspective as a vendor, if people are becoming more efficient, are they look in to services like yours more? Or do you feel like there's more of a pause button to see where the economy shakes out in the next 12 months or so?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, I think it's been a little bit of both. Like there's certain areas, like being a startup is like always evaluating who are we going after? Why are we going after them? And like the areas where we found a lot of results and where we tend to focus is high volume spaces like healthcare and retail. And they're consistently hiring for the same reasons as like day one. There's a lot of turnover, a lot of attrition. And even in like the recruiting ranks, there tends to be like turnover there too. And so our kind of pitch to that is, hey, we're an always on system. You don't have to retrain us. We've had teams where they've lost recruiters and they don't need to backfill or backfill as fast because they have a system in place that's working the way that it's supposed to work. So from a demand perspective, I think 2023 was very interesting for us. Obviously we grew but then there's a lot of people towards the end of the year like evaluating, looking at their full stack, wanting to see how things played out to that point. And so my hope and anticipation is they've done a lot of that in 2024. They're like, all right, we're ready to like put some new things into practice. And I think everyone's looking at AI and automation as a way to advance and compete. 'Cause I think a TA is a competitive sport. So if you're not advancing, then you're gonna lose out on your best talent.

Joe: I talked to a lot of startups who say recruiters or employers don't want to talk to you because they mean I might lose my job if we hire this company. Are you seeing some of that? And if so, how are you sort of getting around that hurdle?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, that's a common question that we've gotten since day one. And what we tend to find is that when Qualifi comes in, they don't say, Hey, all right, we're cutting to like three or four recruiters. What they see is like, we're adding capacity to our existing team and now they can screen more candidates or repurpose them to take on better, like the more meaningful projects beyond just screening. 'Cause like what we try to talk to our recruiters about is like, we don't want you to be, we want you to be more of a partner to the business and not glorified or overpaid admins. And just focus on scheduling and coordinating. Your job is more important to them. And so like my hope is that we're elevating the role of what recruiting is. And I think, I think that's honestly like the future of recruiting is that role might shift in a lot of organizations. It might require more responsibilities that are more highly aligned to the end goals of the organization and not just serving the hiring manager fulfilling, you know, the coordination duties. And so that's my hope and that's how we tend to talk about it.

Chad: So when it comes down to... It's impossible to get into an employer's head in the first place to know whether they're literally looking to like scale down the recruiting staff. Or if they're looking to provide them with more resources that's beyond you at that point, right?

Darrian Mikell: Right. And some were very explicit. Some were like, like we've been on demo calls and they literally look at it as like a financial equation. Like yeah, I could...

Chad: No shit.

Darrian Mikell: Immediately cut headcount.

Chad: We can cut.

Darrian Mikell: And they're like say that on, or like oh, we're not saying that. Like, this is how we think of it but...

Chad: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I say the quiet part out loud. No idea.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, they do that. We don't do that. We are here for recruiters, we very much care about their wellbeing. 'Cause one of the things too is, especially in like these high volume, fast-paced industries, recruiters are doing phone interviews at the dinner table, late at night, across different time zones. And so it's like, Hey, you don't have to do that anymore so we're hopefully, hopefully making their everyday life better too.

Chad: Qualifi the recruiter buddy.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, exactly.

Chad: That's the recruiter buddy.

Darrian Mikell: Boom.

Joe: So you're gonna be on stage in a little bit. What are gonna be talking about What's the focus of your presentation?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. It's about capturing the candidate voice. So title of the presentation is beyond the resume the power of candidate voice. And obviously I'm biased, that's what we do every single day and I'm really excited about it. 'Cause part of the reason I wanna talk about it is most people don't know who we are, let alone the idea behind Qualifi. I would eventually venture to guess close to a 100% of our prospects, they weren't looking for an audio phone interviewing solution. They were probably looking for a way to automate, but they didn't know audio and voice was a medium that they could use to better their hiring practices.

Chad: Well, it's hard when they don't know that they have a problem. They know that there's a problem there, but they don't know what it is. And then you come in and you say you have a problem. That's a lot of market education. So are you doing that call by call? How are you guys doing that? 'cause that's not easy. We were in the industry when job boards were created back in the day. So going and educating companies on, wait a minute, first off, this is what the internet symbol looks like then this is what job, a job board is. You guys are literally doing almost the exact same thing. It's much more advanced, don't get me wrong. So how hard is that? How are you going at the market? What's the go-to market when it comes to education?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, it's very difficult and we're learning along the way. Like what that means for a while is like brute force, like just straight up cold everything. We're selling you, pitching you, like we're teaching you, like you said, call by call. Now what we're learning is that it needs that just broader market education. So we're trying to do more stuff like this, show up at events that matter, produce better content. We have tons of data now. So hundreds of thousands of candidates have been through the platform. We're learning from that. So we're trying to be able to be authoritative resource to the people that might buy us or might not in the future, but looking at content as like a way to share the word about, and not only Qualifi, but what's possible.

Joe: And my guess is, from a competitive standpoint, all of you have been educating the marketplace.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah.

Joe: How do you look at competition? 'Cause I think a lot of people, when they hear about your solution, it's like, Oh, I hear a little bit of this. I hear a little bit of that. How do you look at the competition?

Darrian Mikell: I was actually going to say that just a second ago. I wish there was more competition sometimes. Like when we first got started...

Chad: Is it like market validation kind of a thing?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. When we first got started, it was like, oh, no one's doing this. It is a novel idea. And that is honestly, like what part of what motivates me still to this day is, I know one, we've seen real results that are meaningful to our customers and just more people need to know about it. But when we do, there is an existing category around interviewing that I think we are like highly associated with, but most of the associations with video. And so that's where we can differentiate within the same category. But yeah, there is some of that education, but people that have experienced video tend to have negative correlation to the interviewing space. And so there is that shifting their thinking and getting them to come around to seeing our side. So I think there's like a love hate there. In some cases like, yeah, I would love more competition to validate the market.

Chad: Not just validate, but educate.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, educate. Yeah. I think that's more so what it is. It's already validated, but like educating and like we're trying to create and define a category in some regards. And so it's like, sometimes you just want that to be already there and you just go into it and pivot and be a little bit different. And so that's a little bit of the challenge, but I think we're up for it.

Joe: You mentioned being in business with your brother. I think that's an interesting dynamic. What are the pros? What are the cons of going into business with family?

Chad: Do you arm wrestle for like hard decisions? How does that work?

Darrian Mikell: No, it actually works. People say, don't go into business family, right? I would say go in business with the right family members. So I think I could go in business. I have two brothers. I think I could go in business with both of them, but I think I started with Devin in the right way. And I think what we did well was establish things early on, probably when it didn't matter that much in terms of like, hey, who's got, or like what the equity equation looks like, who's making these types of decisions? Where do we split duties? I think we work really well in that regards. And I think we haven't really had any like major arguments. We have had disagreements for sure, but we try to keep things in the right category. Like we're brothers first and then business partner second. And we try to separate, like even down to how we communicate, we use Slack for like our team. So we send Slack messages for Slack things, then I'll text him if it's just a personal thing. So we try not to mix...

Joe: Does mom have a strict no business chat over holidays? Or can you...

Darrian Mikell: We try to like not, I think we, we do talk about business at all times. It's hard not to, but we try to like not talk about it as much as we can when we're just together in person, 'cause as much as we talk to each other every single day, we're not always together in like a family environment. And so we try to maximize that.

Chad: The big question is who wins one-on-one on the court?

Darrian Mikell: Oh, for sure, me. For sure me. [laughter] I'm the Hooper, but if he was here, he would argue. We have the debate 'cause my older brother played in the NFL and we each, and all of us played collegiate.

Chad: Athletically, just rich in the DNA here.

Darrian Mikell: It comes from our parents. My dad played football. My dad would say my mom was probably a better athlete too. We were all athletes and so sports are very...

Chad: Was she collegiate?

Darrian Mikell: She didn't, but she played basketball, volleyball, all that sort of stuff growing up. And so, ran track, but we both did track and he technically, well, not technically, this is the older brother coming out. He's jumped. He has the longer long jump marks than I do. So I'll give him that credit.

Chad: So where'd you get up to on high jump?

Darrian Mikell: I jumped 6'9" in high school.

Chad: Holy shit! 6'9"?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. Yeah.

Joe: Wow.

Darrian Mikell: But I did that in high school and I didn't get higher than that in college.

Chad: Oh my god.

Darrian Mikell: So I peaked early.

Chad: That is ridic... And you're how tall just for everybody who's listening to the audio.

Darrian Mikell: I'm 6'5". No, it's not.


Darrian Mikell: I'm 5'10", though for sure.

Chad: 5'10". That is ridiculous. I thought I was saying something big yesterday. I was like, I jumped 6'2", right? He's like, nothing. You got nothing.

Joe: Yeah, right. You can jump over me. So obviously competitive. Curious, what does the company look like in two, three years? You're obviously looking towards the future. What does this solution look like?

Chad: Acquired?

Darrian Mikell: That could be... I hope to continue to grow the company. And like I said, what I'm really excited about is one, I think we have an amazing team. We're 15 full-time folks. We're a remote team. Most of us are based in the Indianapolis area, but we have folks across the country hopefully to continue to expand the team, but then from a product and evolution of the company standpoint, getting at what I was talking about earlier, making it way more intelligent. I think we fulfill a strong need around just doing the job of like the phone interview and scheduling. But like you said, adding more automation intelligently I think is what I'm really excited about and capturing data.

Joe: Global growth opportunities there or?

Darrian Mikell: We've already touched into international territories. I think this year we'll kind of start that in some way more deeply through like partnerships.

Chad: Was that through your US portfolio though, that they were expanding out?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah, like the existing need of...

Chad: So it's organic.

Darrian Mikell: Right.

Chad: It's not forced.

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. I don't think we'll like make like a headlong launch into international waters yet, unless it's by way of like partnerships or through existing customers. But we do have the ability to translate all of our existing communications. And I think that's always been something interesting to me is like, what if you have two way conversation needs? Like, I need to recruit in a different language and so I can transcribe and send back. We can each speak in our native tongue. And I can understand without understanding. Yeah. If that makes sense.

Joe: Yeah. That's gotta be coming. That's gotta be coming. Well, I can say that as an Indianapolis resident, it's really fun to watch the company grow and you be successful. For those listeners out there that don't know how to connect with you, where would you send them to learn more about Qualifi?

Darrian Mikell: Yeah. So first, it's, Qualifi, Follow me on LinkedIn. And then also launching is my new podcast call Future at Work where I interview other founders like myself. And it's kind of a founders on founders behind the scenes focused on TA and HR.

Chad: Nice.

Darrian Mikell: And so my hope is to give the audience the opportunity to be like a fly on the wall to the conversations that they might not be privy to and conversation matter that's still interesting to them and help them do their jobs better.

Chad: Sounds awesome.

Joe: And where people say no to a demo, they'll say yes to an interview. So there might be some sales in that funnel coming soon. That is Darrian Mikell, everybody. Chad, another one in the can. We out.

Chad: We out.

Outro: Thank you for listening to what's it called? The podcast, the Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology. But most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know. And yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese. Not one. Cheddar. Blue. Nacho. Pepper Jack. Swiss. There's so many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. It's so weird. We out.


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