The week of July 4th is usually pretty slow, but there were plenty of fireworks this year.
Try not to choke on all the hot dogs, PBR and freedom. And show our sponsors some Yankee Doodle appreciation.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast
Joel: Ah, yeah, still trying to shake off the smell of hotdogs, pops, blue ribbon, and freedom. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese Podcast, HR's most dangerous, flying in on the wings of a bald eagle, baby. I'm Joel Cheeseman.
Chad: And I'm Chad. I can't wait until the U.S. women's soccer team win another one! No jinx.
Joel: On this week's episode, StepStone goes fishing for Appcast. Some corporate rainbow flags don't fly quite as high as you think they do, and VR, yes, Chad, VR gets some air time. Grab your Oculus Rift and see how many hotdogs you can down while you listen to this word from JobAdX.
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Joel: How was your Fourth of July, my man?
Chad: It was relaxing. Didn't have any kids. Just all we had was beautiful weather
and beer out on the deck out at Upland Brewing. It was amazing, then went to Swan's Eggs. They had a special beer release yesterday. So, I mean, it was amazing for us.
Joel: Any fireworks?
Chad: Yeah, we had fireworks the night before. So we stank of freedom the entire day.
Joel: I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It spells like freedom. Let's get to an abbreviated show, shall we?
Chad: Okay. Do it.
Joel: Shout out. We made the top podcasts lists from two companies this past week.
Chad: We're such suckers.
Joel: Our buddies at Candidate.ID, or Candidate ID, or whatever we're calling them today, had us on their top five list. Well deserved, if I do say so myself. VideoMyJob, our buddies over in Australia, put us on their top podcasts list for recruiting. Always appreciate that. If you haven't seen our DEMOpocalypse with them, I highly encourage it for both of those companies, actually.
Chad: Yeah, now, we're suckers for lists. Let's just put that out there, guys. Kind of like we're suckers for swag, we're suckers for lists. So Newvoe, Michael O'Dell ... Neuvoo. I'm sorry. Is it Neuvoo? I think it's Neuvoo.
Joel: Yeah, and you forgot booze as part of our sucker's list.
Chad: Yeah, booze is always a part of it as well. So we got the T-shirts and can koozies, which I displayed on Twitter and Facebook from the peeps at Neuvoo, mainly or with Odell.
Joel: Anything in that box for me?
Chad: Oh yeah. I got a XXL. And-
Joel: You had to throw a fat-boy joke in there, didn't you?
Chad: No, I didn't.
Chad: It's what you wear. It's not my fault, and a couple of koozies for you, so yeah, they're good to go.
Joel: So you already shouted out to the U.S. soccer team. I'm a tad bit concerned because when they beat the Brits, they did a little pinkie T gesture. And he country of England is freaking out about it.
Chad: Yeah, I heard.
Joel: So if they're freaking out about that, we're going to really fuck shit up because were going way beyond T gestures.
Chad: No, England's just pissed off because they're supposed to be good at football, and they just got their asses handed to them. And it's one of those things. And it's okay. Just don't cry so loud. Okay? Just find a corner. Get in the fetal position, and do it like you're supposed to, okay?
Joel: But you already shout-out to the soccer team, but I want to give a shout-out to Joey Chestnut, who is the Michael Jordan of competitive eating, winning his 11th, I think, competition yesterday by downing 71 hotdogs in, I don't know, 10 minutes or whatever it is. The dude is insane. I met him at a Target in Fisher's I think last year. Nice guy. So yeah, shout-out to Joey Chestnut, man. Keep eating.
Chad: You're the only guy I know who watches competitive eating online.
Joel: That's bullshit. There are totally listeners out there that watched the eating competition yesterday.
Chad: If you watched the eating competition yesterday, please fire off. Give us some feedback, and tell me that I'm full of shit or Joel's just weird, which I'm going to go with the latter.
Ed: Yo, that jawn is so lame.
Chad: Thanks to Louise Triance for once again having a Chad and Louise segment. We had Nathan Perrott on from AIA, who we're going to see in London here in less than a week. And also, our buddy Nick Livingston from Honeit, he survived the Firing Squad. He was like one of the first guys, I believe, to actually come on the Firing Squad as a startup, and he survived, did a great job. So it was great to be on with them during a Chad and Louise. If you haven't seen it, go out there on the socials and check out the recording.
Joel: Did you make a bone-it joke while you were on the webinar?
Chad: I did not. I thought we were out of those since we did it so many times.
Joel: We have beat that dead horse quite badly, really violently.
Chad: We have. Yes.
Joel: Sorry, Nick.
Chad: We're pretty good at that. Next I wanted to give a big shout-out to our buddies at Talent Nexus, where anybody who's going to see us in London and then afterwards, these guys have gone above and beyond. They've teamed up with us to be able to put together some promotions. And one of the promotions that everybody's going to love when you're in attendance at Rec Fest is the opportunity to win free beer or coffee for a year.
Joel: Yeah. That's my kind of competition right there.
Chad: That's right. So I'm going to let the cat out of the bag. So we've got these little Chad and Cheese cardboard faces, like the big heads. All you have to do is take a selfie with it #ChadCheese. The next day after our fucking crazy hangovers, we'll pick a winner as we also do the podcast live, hopefully from Talent Nexus HQ.
Joel: Yeah, big head in your case. I'm going to go fat head in my case. I think you're fine with that, right?
Chad: Yeah. Not to mention these guys do amazing like employer videos and whatnot. They have a crew that is going to follow us around. They're picking us up at the airport. They're following us around all the way through the day after Rec Fest. And they're slamming together a Chad and Cheese video brought to you by Talent Nexus. That's going to be fun as hell. So we get our very first hype video, Joel.
Joel: Dude, I feel like I'm playing for the Buckeye's or something. It's pretty surreal this whole thing is happening. In addition to that, shout-out to Jamie Leonard, who interviewed for our Rec Fest and Joe Slavin, the masterminds of that conference. If you haven't listened to that, it's a quick 15 minutes of a lot of cussing, a lot of laughing, a little bit of sneak previewing of the conference. So check that out.
Chad: And don't forget we're going to be headlining at Rec Fest. We're the last ones to take the stage, one stage only. And we're going to have 50 Chad and Cheese limited edition Rec Fest T-shirts that Jamie, Francesca, and the gang actually came up with. So these guys are all in, man.
Joel: Get them and flip them on eBay for $1,000,000% profit, obviously. Are you ready to get to the show?
Chad: Let's do this.
Joel: The biggest news from a holiday week happened on the 1st. Appcast, the market leader for programmatic recruitment marketing was acquired or at least an 85% stake in the company was acquired by StepStone, which is an Axel Springer company, which Axel Springer's a huge like $7 billion publishing company with a few job boards, like a job site, total jobs, and obviously StepStone there in Germany. So great news on the programmatic news front.
Chad: This is a German company pretty much bitch-slapping all the US companies right in the face, because this is the smartest, I believe, acquisition to happen ... It would've been the smartest to happen if a US company would've actually bought these guys. I mean, Appcast right now really provides much of the infrastructure of how a programmatic is done today. And I would think that most people probably agree with me on that, especially when it comes to advertise ... or recruitment ad agencies, being able to be connected with all these job sites.
Chad: So this, to me, from StepStone's standpoint, is looking at, "How do we evolve ourselves? We see what's happening in the US. They're not pulling the trigger. We're going to pull the trigger. How do we evolve? And how do we start to move the ball forward in the UK or in Europe overall from duration-based ads to performance ads?" So there, this, to me, is big stand. It's really a big move that one of our companies over here in the US should've made, but they're too slow, and they got beat to the punch.
Joel: Yeah. We both certainly agree on that. I think what we said to each other was, "Would you rather have Glassdoor for $1.7 billion or Appcast for $70 million?"
Chad: Appcast all fucking day.
Joel: For the money, it was a total steal for StepStone and Axel Springer. I also think it's a nice little step for a European company with a nice, strongholded brand overseas to make strides in the US. In fact, I think it was the StepStone CEO who said, "We've wanted to get in the US classified's market for quite some time, and this is a way to do that." I know that they've also been looking at some of the eBay classified stuff, which doesn't mean a whole lot here in the U.S., but I know like in Canada, Kijiji, which some people will know as I think one of the top classified sites up north. So, yeah, Axel Springer, StepStone, those guys in Europe looking to make a big splash in the US, and grabbing Appcast was a nice little step to do that.
Chad: Yeah, and I don't see this as a little step, I see this as a big evolutionary step for those guys. And it could've been a big step for any of the job sites. I mean, Indeed, I can't believe that a company like Indeed didn't gobble them up. If Monster or CareerBuilder really wanted to make a difference and evolve into something different than what they are today, they could've made this move. There are just a ton of different opportunities that could've happened here domestically. Big, big props to our German friends over there at StepStone. Awesome.
Joel: Chris Forman, who founded the company back in 2014 will remain with the company, so I don't see any major challenges or changes, excuse me, coming up-
Chad: Yeah, I know.
Joel: ... in the near term. But I think some potential winners in this might be the PANDOLOGICs of the world, who are doing also programmatic. If StepStone sort of stupidly launches stuff here and gives their stuff extra weight or more weight the what Appcast is ... They're able to be Switzerland a little bit in their algorithm. I think that could push more people into PANDOLOGIC, or Recruitology, or JobAdX, or some of the other programmatic options that are out there.
Chad: Yeah, they're just kind of like, "We've watched chat bots get gobbled up left and right. Is this going to be a switch?" I think it is incredibly smart of any organization that's looking to try to move and evolve to be looking at these types of organizations.
Joel: Do you know if Appcast took any money off hand? If they did, it wasn't a lot. And assuming it wasn't a lot, Chris Forman, man, congratulations. In five years, turn that thing into a nice little retirement nest egg, if you will.
Chad: $8.7 million.
Joel: Okay. That's all right. People got 10x on that investment. That's nice. Good for them.
Chad: Yeah, big ups to Chris Forman and the crew. I mean, those guys just have to be as happy as anybody in our industry right now. And this is more, I think, more that validation for what they've done, the hard work that they've put in. And, again, they smartly took this technology and became really the backbone in many cases for programmatic distribution in the actual infrastructure in our industry. So, great job, guys.
Joel: Moving on to that little company called Facebook announcement this week that they'll be make advertisements for jobs, loans, and credit cards, I'm not sure if there's a connection there or not, searchable for the US workers, excuse me, in the wake of a legal settlement that they recently buttoned up. This is from ABC News. Ads had only been delivered selectively to Facebook users based on data. Before this, the lawsuit had been over housing ads, actually. The searchable jobs database should be ready within the next year.
Joel: So we've obviously talked about jobs being on Facebook and accessible; although making them searchable across from an advertisement's perspective hasn't been something that they've apparently done. And it's apparently something that they will be doing. I don't think it's as much strategic as it is just being free to do it because of this lawsuit being wrapped up. But it is also worth noting because its jobs, and it's a short holiday week, and we don't have a whole lot of news any [crosstalk 00:16:05].
Chad: Yeah, and meh. I mean, to me, the way that Facebook or any of these big data organizations actually make this work is being able to deliver relevant content. And since they've stripped out some of the targeting pieces that they've had for jobs, to be able to help organizations, really, look, to hire a more diverse workforce, all of this just seems very bland and milk toast to me right now because they had the targeting, and they had exactly what they needed to be able to help employers do what they needed to do. Then they just did a knee-jerk reaction, and then they stripped it all out.
Chad: They have so many people are saying, "Well, what they use this to only include white males in the Midwest?" If that's the case, then guess what? That's why we have enforcement agencies like the EEOC and the OFCCP, right? So should be able to check these things. That data should be actually available to them from a targeting standpoint. It just makes sense. But we don't think about the other way around. Again, Julie works for Disability Solutions, and they help major brands target the right types of individuals, individuals with disabilities, for specific positions in their organizations. And they hire thousands of individuals with disabilities into those brands. One of the things that they did is they actually used Facebook to help target those types of individuals to help guide them into new careers. Now, that going away, it makes it a hell of a lot harder. It just makes no sense.
Joel: Yeah, I think it's largely up to Facebook in terms of how successful or big a deal this is. And if they start sort of integrating job information in searches that are done on the site, I mean, people undervalue Facebook's search engine, but when you're searching for people, it's by far the number one search that people do within the world. So you mentioned Julie. If somebody did a search on Julie, not that they would, but if it knew her company and part of the search results were like, "Hey, Julie's company's hiring, and here are some jobs that they're currently hiring for," I mean, that could be kind of interesting. I don't think that Facebook will do that, but if they make jobs a core of the actual search, overall search, then it could mean something.
Chad: I think a lot of it just has to do with delivery within the actual platform itself. Just relevant delivery makes just so much more sense.
Joel: Yeah, and relevant ads are nicer if you can actually target for specific things, which they can't really do anymore.
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Joel: I can't wait to see those guys in London.
Chad: You know it. I can see we're going to have to have a shot with a Aman before we take the stage.
Joel: Does Aman drink? I don't know if I've ever ... We've had lunch a couple ... Well, I guess at dinner and lunch. I guess he probably had a drink at dinner, if I remember correctly.
Chad: When he's not on the mic, which is, I mean, that he's a smart guy, right? So when he doesn't have a mic in front of his face, he might be in a bar, but he's not drinking. But when we turn the mic's off, then, I mean, that's just smart business right there.
Joel: Yeah, and by the way, he's likely to be the funniest guy at the conference based on past performance.
Chad: Easily, yeah.
Joel: Although he's a big-time CEO of Jobvite now, so he might have to tone down the humor. Who knows.
Chad: That's why people love him. He's authentic. He's genuine guy. He's a funny guy. I don't expect him to tone that down at all.
Joel: All right. Fair enough. So corporate rainbows, this is kind of your lane.
Chad: Yeah. I was listening as Julie and Torin were recording their Crazy and The King last week. And they started talking about, and, I mean, this is something that is actually near and dear to our hearts, talked about the LGBTQ community. So they were talking about the story, and after they were done, I went, and I was like, "What the fuck are you talking about?"
Chad: So she pointed me to this Forbes article that showed that all of these big brands that scored really high in this index card called the corporate equity index, how they really are like speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They are doing everything they can from a "policy standpoint" to look good on the LGBTQ community side, but behind closed doors, they're also donating money to anti-gay politicians. So when you see the logos, like the AT&T logo, or the UPS, or Comcast, or Home Depot, where they do the whole rainbow logo thing, I mean, that's to be able to say, "Oh, yeah, look, we're all inclusive." But AT&T donated over $2 million, closer to $3 million to anti-gay politicians. UPS donated $2.3 million: Comcast, $2.1, Home Depot, nearly $2 million; General Electric, $1.3.
Chad: So, I mean, they have all these companies that are saying, "We are inclusive." But yet the question is, are they really? It came up in the conversation, "Well, isn't this just good business?" And my answer is no. You can't have two messages. You either believe in equity and inclusion or you don't. And a great example I think is like with Chick-fil-A or Hobby Lobby, right?
Chad: That's what they believe in. They're not doing this rainbow logo thing because they don't believe in it. But yet these companies, AT&T, UPS, Comcast, Home ... UBS, Verizon, they're all doing this stuff, but they're trying to play to both sides of the tracks here. And I think it's total bullshit.
Joel: Now, first of all, Chick-fil-A chicken is amazing regardless of where you sit on the political landscape.
Chad: Never had it.
Joel: Really? Oh man.
Joel: Anyway, and a lot of world hasn't because it's still fairly regionalized. But anyway, do you think it's a concerted effort to say, "Hey, we're going to be inclusive and our marketing is going to be sort of as such supporting that," like they're literally putting one face on and then putting money towards anti-gay candidates because they're anti-gay, or do you think that they do believe in inclusion and they do support candidates, and sometimes candidates that are supportive of other things also unfortunately are anti-gay on other levels?
Joel: In other words, is it so black and white that corporations should say, "Look, if you have any anti-gay legislation on the books or votes," that, "we're not giving you any money no matter what, even if your policies are supportive of tax, whatever, or us moving places, or hiring people, or minimum wage, or things like that"? Should it be that black and white?
Chad: I think ... because I don't know what they're actually thinking behind closed doors, but I do know that we are in a much more transparent community world today than we ever have been. And I know throughout the years, those backdoor kind of donations and deals and those types of things just kind of like slipped under the radar because it wasn't as public, right? And there wasn't as much transparency that's out there.
Chad: So, I mean, this is my message to all those companies that are out there, and I'm sure they're obviously listening, is that you've got to get your shit together, and you've got to figure out who you are. And what you said, I think makes a hell of a lot of sense. You've got to know who you're giving money to. And if they actually resonate with your brand, if they embrace the things that your brand embraces. If they do, then you should obviously support them. But if you don't, then you don't. But you have to remember, though, we're in more of a transparent society today, and these things will be brought up. So a rainbow-colored logo is not going to get your ass off of the shit list just because it looks nice and you say wonderful things, right?