Gerry Tales IV (Gerrymandering)

Gerry Tales with industry icon Gerry Crispin was off-the-chain, and this is Part IV of our interview on all-things-recruiting. Enjoy, get smarter and show exclusive sponsor Nexxt some love.


Disability Solutions helps support and educate your workforce through disability awareness and inclusion training.​

Chad: Welcome to Volume 4 of Gerry Tales. Joel and I sat down with Gerry Crispin for over an hour and a half and talked history, now and future state of the recruiting industry. This is the fourth installment of our Gerry Crispin series. Enjoy!

Chad: After a word from our sponsor.

Nexxt: Okay, so you need candidates fast and you're sick and tired of being nickeled and dimed to death. I totally get it. You should check out Flexx Plan from Nexxt. It's perfect for employers and staffing firms who are busy, they need candidates and flexible pricing now. Flexx Plan is also perfect for recruitment ad agencies who need targeted distribution and tools to help demonstrate client ROI. If you're sick and tired of all the BS, hassle and just want candidates now. Check out Nexxt and Flexx Plan with over seventy million members. Nexxt takes all of your jobs and puts each one in front of the best candidates and cross their entire ecosystem. No muss, no fuss, Nexxt does all the work and Flexx Plan makes it cost effective. Check out everything Nexxt has to offer at That's and if you like to save even more cash, just go to, scroll down and click on the Nexxt logo discounts a plenty. Remember, Nexxt with a double x, not the triple x.

Chad: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: The growth of the gig economy. Your own opinion on that but also I know you talk to a lot of employers, particularly some big employers. Is the gig economy on their radar? Are they afraid of it? Are their companies embracing it? What's going on?

Gerry: I think that is an excellent question and the data that I would have and the conversations that I've had, because I do have a lot of conversations about this, are that large companies increasingly are recognizing that the gig economy is here. That it's active in their corporation, that they would estimate that something between ten and twenty percent of the people who are working and representing them as a company are probably in a gig situation.

Gerry: However, the majority of them would still admit that the control of the decisions around that are not in HR they are in procurement and they're in the throws. The transformation is both now are beginning to take a closer look at that because it does impact engagement, it does impact performance, it does impact a number of things. There are some jobs that will be much more amenable for gig work and there are other jobs that if you put gig workers in them you are potentially going to abuse them for a variety of weird kinds of reasons.

Gerry: An example that comes from history is that in the forty's and fifty's, there were some extraordinary problems with mining and the way the government dealt with that - a lot of people were dying in the mines because of safety issues. So to incent companies to participate in that, mining companies were forced to report on a regular basis every month the number of people who were hurt or died in mines. However, there a was a weird kind of thing about that. They only had to report full time worker injuries.

Chad: Oh, Jesus.

Gerry: So, what they did was they eliminated full-time workers and made them part-time workers.

Chad: Loop holes, man.

Gerry: And the reporting showed that mining injuries and deaths went down by enormous amounts and so the government thought wow there's a lot more safety being installed in mines. So, I use that as an example because it's so graphic, right? Think about this, we have laws in our country that have to do with when you need to give people benefits.

Chad: Right.

Gerry: And so you have to have so many hours before you get so much benefits.

Chad: Right.

Gerry: Some companies like Starbucks voluntarily give part-time workers full benefits.

Chad: Yeah.

Gerry: Which attracts a better class of worker, if you will.

Chad: Yep

Gerry: So we need to think about who should be a gig worker and who shouldn't and whether or not the company is benefiting in ways that they should not, or might actually abuse the workers themselves.

Chad: Well and I think today, I mean we're much more connected so back in the coal mining days there wasn't a message board or a platform for reviews of this employer on that sight. So, I think some of that abuse is definitely gonna go away because it's more transparent 'cause people are actually out there saying these guys are assholes. Here's the thing, and here's my question to you, Jerry. We just know a good friend of mine actually just started a position at Uber Works in Chicago so we see Uber Works is starting up and then we have other organizations that are freelance platforms, the snags of the world.

Gerry: Upwork

Chad: Communos, which are for creatives...

Gerry: CDP bought after market, as well.

Chad: Yeah, so we have all these, they're all coming out and because it is so much more of a transparent obviously market, if we do have some kind of universal health care system. Don't you think it makes it much easier for someone to be able to float from job to job and say whether they want to work for that company or not and know that they don't have to

Gerry: True

Chad: Go into an FTE type of position?

Gerry: Yes, for there's a whole group of people who enjoy it, are comfortable with it, et cetera. But, keep in mind there's also a strong percentage of people in our country who want the safety and security of a simple job that they can go to every day and at least pretend that they can go to it for the rest of their life. I'm not saying they should get it, I am saying that all of us are built a little different and I'm very comfortable not knowing where my next dollar is coming.

Chad: Yeah, but don't you think Uber and those types of platforms for somebody who wants to work part-time and wants to work when they wanna work, they can just pick up a phone and say okay I'm gonna go work at wherever I'm certified. I can just go ahead and pick up a shift and do that or drive my car.

Gerry: I'll bet, though that the most interesting persona within the uber community are people who are in fact working at a job, and picking up an Uber shift.

Chad: Side hustles.

Gerry: As a side hustle. So the side hustle person, who's a little more energetic in saying I need to make a little bit of extra money is really the persona for many of these gig works and I think that's really where the value is going to be, as opposed to the full-time piece.

Chad: Gotcha.

Gerry: The side hustle is the cool piece and I talk to Uber drivers on a regular basis and I say well who are you and they're typically students or a side hustle. I don't come across too many at all who are full-time Uber drivers.

Chad: Gotcha. I'm gonna do a little pivot and talk about diversity. I know that you guys on the diversity recruiting and sourcing side of the house, you definitely cover that and I guarantee you that your clients are wanting to talk to you about that. In my experience, whether it's Veteran hiring, or individuals with disabilities, or just really any diverse group I hear a lot of people talking about it. The problem is I don't see enough dollars and/or resources that are really earmarked for these types of programs to be able to create sustainable types of talent pipelines. What do you say? What kind of companies are really sticking out and do you think that this is going to be a trend that is just going to have to be the standard, or do you think it's just a lot of fluff?

Gerry: I think that there is a strong group of companies that go behind compliance right now, and have huge investment in insuring that the diversity of thought, diversity in every form is represented within their organization. The key here is that these are industry leading companies, these are successful companies, these are high brand companies, these are the companies that are out in the street, if you will, and known by organizations.

Chad: Gotcha.

Gerry: All right, so I'm differentiating and so my experience is because most of my members represent that. They are companies that hire probably more than five thousand people a year. They're companies that are probably close to, if not, the industry leader in their respective area. They are well-known companies within organizations, so they sense from a values point of view the criticality of that. And they are intent on improving, not all of them have figured out how to do it well.

Gerry: Let me give you one example of a trend that I think is happening among retail firms. Retail firms buy in large if you looked at their talent acquisition organizations they'd say oh we hire two hundred thousand people a year or we hire fifty thousand people a year, but I'm only responsible for corporate. We send information to the stores. They handle all of their hiring.

Chad: Yeah.

Gerry: We don't know what they do.

Chad: Right.

Gerry: Right?

Chad: Right.

Gerry: That wo