5 Questions Before Buying w/ Alexis Meschi

AI tools everywhere. Real results nowhere?

This week on The Chad & Cheese Podcast, Joel and Chad welcome Alexis Meschi, co-founder of Ora Marketing, to cut through the AI hype choking recruiters, marketers, and founders alike. From why “one-tool-to-rule-them-all” is total BS to how bad marketing actually kills revenue, Alexis lays out a no-nonsense checklist for buying AI without torching your workflow—or your soul.

They dig into why most recruiters market themselves instead of their clients (spoiler: nobody cares), how consistency beats automation every time, and why tools should make you more human, not turn you into another bot yelling into LinkedIn. Add in Taco Bell vs. fine dining, Wall-E-level tech addiction, and a few well-placed mic drops, and you’ve got an episode that’s equal parts strategy, sanity check, and social media intervention.

Listen up if you want fewer tools, better results, and marketing that actually makes money.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel Cheesman (00:29.508)

Yeah, old enough to know better too young to care. What's up everybody? It's the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel Cheeseman. Join as always Chad. So wash is riding shotgun as we welcome Alexis Meschi co-founder at or a marketing, a professional social media marketing agency for recruiters to the podcast. Alexis, welcome to HR's most dangerous podcast. pleasures. you dare you. How dare you.

Alexis Meschi (00:51.419)

Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here with you. Dare I say gentlemen? Yes. All right. Okay. Okay. I take it back.

Chad (00:56.431)

You're going a little far. You're going a little far on that one, Alexis. You watch your mouth. Watch your mouth.

Joel Cheesman (00:59.748)

Yeah, this interview is over. It's over. pleasure's all on this side of table, Alexis. Our listeners don't know who you are. Give us a little bit about you before we dig into all the business stuff.

Alexis Meschi (01:15.822)

I'm co-founder of Ora, like you mentioned, Joel, with my business partner, Dottie Gupta. Not sure if anybody's familiar with him, but we have a marketing agency, like you said, specifically for recruiters and staffing agencies. I live in the amazing Bay Area of California. I have three young adult, older teenage daughters and raising them with my

Chad (01:31.631)

nice

Chad (01:39.213)

All three daughters? Wow!

Alexis Meschi (01:40.558)

All three daughters, 21, 19 and 17. So I am like, and the oldest is about to, we're helping her on her job search, the younger two are going away to college. So everybody's in like major life change decisions. And I'm telling you, you think like the early years of helping your kids navigate things are challenging. This is a whole new level, but it's so exciting too. I've been married to my high school sweetheart for 23 years. We've known each other since we were seven, which is so abnormal, right?

Chad (01:53.049)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (02:05.54)

Aww.

Chad (02:08.173)

Holy. It is. is. Abbey normal. Yes.

Joel Cheesman (02:09.261)

What?

Is his name Forrest? What? Is his name Forrest Gump? What? Yeah. I love you, Jenny.

Chad (02:17.999)

Like peas and carrots, like peas and carrots.

Alexis Meschi (02:18.068)

No, no, not. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a fun journey. And I love, in addition to marketing and being in my family, I love cooking in Italian. So I love making fresh pasta on the weekends and doing like our life revolves around food. We travel around food. We like plan our days around food. I love that. Totally my joy. And it's fun that it's functional too.

Chad (02:40.281)

I love it. I love it. Yeah. yeah.

Joel Cheesman (02:43.773)

And by food, and by food, mean like Taco Bell, McDonald's, Arby's, that kind of food?

Chad (02:49.691)

I think Alexis is more on my side of this than she is on the fast food Joel Cheeseman side of this. think, yes, good family, family food. You know what I mean? Family restaurants.

Alexis Meschi (02:51.766)

a little bit different.

Alexis Meschi (02:59.758)

You know, I gotta tell you, I was recounting this funny story with my 21 year old. We had gone to Carmel by the sea, which I don't know if anybody knows, a very nice area of California, 25 minutes from us. And we were out to a very nice dinner at Petal Beach Lodge. And she like looks around and she's in her angsty teenage years. And she's like, why can't we just be a normal family and go to Taco Bell? And we laughed so hard at this story that like, so there you go, Joel.

Chad (03:06.883)

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (03:24.312)

Yes.

Chad (03:26.703)

I, I mean, I would give her what she, she would want. would, I would leave them home with Taco Bell and I would, yeah, I would, I would get the hell out and just go, okay, you can do this while we go have gourmet food. Enjoy yourself. It's a good call. It's a very good call. Very good call.

Alexis Meschi (03:27.734)

Our kids would probably like some of that.

Alexis Meschi (03:32.942)

We were literally like, back to the hotel and order a taco ball. Please. Yes.

Alexis Meschi (03:41.196)

We've done some separation like that. So anyways, that's a little bit about me.

Joel Cheesman (03:43.428)

All right. Well, stuck here in the Midwest and fall, I'm a little sick of this California talk at the moment. we get, can we get to, I know I'm very excited. But for now, let's, let's get down to business. I would say I'm really, I'm really curious. You help or marketing helps recruiters have a social media presence on LinkedIn and other.

Chad (03:49.827)

You're gonna be there in a couple of weeks, Cheeseman.

Alexis Meschi (03:50.754)

I'm sorry.

Alexis Meschi (03:56.749)

Yes.

Alexis Meschi (04:06.158)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (04:09.582)

This is sort of a new thing to me. Are recruiters good at this? Like what exactly are you helping them produce videos and just attract candidates? Explain to me what the business does real quick.

Alexis Meschi (04:20.116)

Well, I would say that most of us are really good at what we do, right? So recruiters are not necessarily great at marketing because they're not marketers, but that's obviously why you hire partners and other professionals to do the work for you. And that's exactly what we are. We are a done for you marketing agency. So.

Joel Cheesman (04:24.356)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (04:37.826)

We offer weekly coaching and support on building your brand on inbound lead generation. Like ultimately that's what we're helping them do. But the root of what we do, we help them plan content topics every month that are high performing, targeted. Most of our recruiters need more clients, right? They want more clients, not necessarily more candidates. So we use our framework, come up with the content ideas, and then we have a one hour video recording call using Riverside. And we're doing video with them for an hour so they get

Joel Cheesman (04:46.254)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (04:56.674)

Yep.

Joel Cheesman (05:03.14)

Yep.

Alexis Meschi (05:07.35)

A week later, they get video clips, posts, graphics, articles, PDFs, basically all their month's content. So they can stick to what they do really well, but obviously have like a fractional CMO to build their brand and build their business.

Chad (05:20.516)

Do you work with staffing agencies to be able to put together portfolios for their recruiters or do you work directly with individual contract recruiters one by one?

Alexis Meschi (05:33.01)

mainly individual contact recruiters, but we do have some staffing agency clients as well. We have a more holistic model to the whole organization, but most of our clients are, yeah, individual recruiters. Yes.

Chad (05:41.284)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (05:45.742)

So I'm seeing a lot of AI that's producing some of the social media for you. How concerned are you about AI and a lot of recruiters just gravitating toward a solution that'll create all this stuff for them?

Alexis Meschi (05:57.004)

I think that, concern isn't the right word. Aware, I think is a better word, but like a lot of things, I think anybody that is going to use AI or tools, which we're going to talk about today, right? That are trying to do quick fixes for a bigger problem or a bigger goal usually fizzle out really fast because the intention and the root behind what they're doing isn't there. And the strategy is not there often.

Joel Cheesman (06:10.723)

Yeah.

Chad (06:11.32)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (06:26.242)

So aware, but not necessarily concerned because most people that are high performers want high performing partners to support them in their work. Not just a quick fix.

Joel Cheesman (06:37.208)

That's good. That's good. And what platforms like do certain recruiters thrive on different platforms? they should you just be on everything? Just LinkedIn? Like talk about sort of what your recommendations are on where they should be.

Alexis Meschi (06:48.91)

So I would say everybody should be on LinkedIn. This is the professional platform where most of your clients are going to be on all the time. Right. That being said, so like everybody should go to LinkedIn marketing by all means in your brand.

Joel Cheesman (06:59.811)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (07:12.556)

And then from there, there's other platforms that you can play on depending on your target audience. I am not at all a believer in go all in on all the platforms. Like why would you waste your energy doing that? So my target market is not going to be on TikTok. So why am I going to post all my stuff on TikTok? The only, the only thing I would say is if you want to be multi-platform in order for just brand recognition and like, you know, having your brand presence out there, that's a little bit different.

Chad (07:35.289)

Mm.

Alexis Meschi (07:42.466)

But most people are looking at what we're trying to get is strategic results of growth, not just building your brand ego. So I would say YouTube would be the second kind of follow-up strategy there or follow-up platform. I'm sorry. would say like, and this is general, right? YouTube, Instagram and Facebook for more candidate trip in things. I think that you can play in that space. but, and then X, but there's a whole other strategy for X. but I would say.

Chad (08:09.583)

Yeah, porn.

Alexis Meschi (08:11.574)

Yeah. LinkedIn, like focus on LinkedIn. Let's keep it simple and effective in place.

Joel Cheesman (08:17.124)

All right, that's it, Sohwash. I'm deleting my MySpace account. It does me no good. It does me no good anymore. I'm off of MySpace as far as everyone is concerned.

Chad (08:20.079)

Glad you finally figured that out. So the thing that it's, it's interesting and we'll get into kind of like platforms and all that other fun stuff. the, the, distribution, I think it becomes so much easier to create content in one fail swoop. Cause I mean, we do one on the podcast, right? We do long form, chop it into short form and all of that can be, you know, either, you know, portrait or landscape. Doesn't matter.

Right? You can do all of that and you can push it to all the different platforms. but what you're saying is, yeah, really don't waste your time doing that. Really focus on the areas and be more pointed, for, for, for what you're looking for. That being said, and I'm sure many, you've, you've probably used them though yourself, but there are many recruiters that are out there that are like, you know what I can do very simple phone.

Alexis Meschi (08:50.172)

Yeah.

Alexis Meschi (09:01.838)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chad (09:15.529)

videos and then maybe there are long longer videos and I just throw them into opus clip. And then I just have the AI, you know, be my quote unquote marketing machine to some effect. What, what, what can recruiters, I guess, get from, support like, like Ora, that they can't, again, that they can't get just themselves. Cause if they know LinkedIn.

Alexis Meschi (09:33.888)

Yeah. Yeah. So.

Chad (09:40.309)

is it? And they just focus mainly on LinkedIn. Okay, great. Because that's where business happens, right? What would you guys bring, not just from an experience standpoint, but also from a tool standpoint, to be able to say, don't waste your time, go ahead and allow the pros to do this.

Alexis Meschi (09:59.798)

A couple of things. First of all, I can easily do my bookkeeping in like quick books or whatever. I can do that skill. I can take the time to search like, well, how do I categorize? Okay. Yeah. But why would I do that when it takes away time from my revenue generating activities? Like I hire strategic people to support on tasks that ultimately don't make me money and they take away my time that makes me money. That's how I would say most recruiters.

Chad (10:16.975)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (10:29.442)

when they're investing in, mean, that's sure, that's a great strategy and a great framework, but it still takes a lot of time. And then when they get busy doing tasks like recruiting and sourcing and all the things, then they have like a couple of weeks where they're not doing it. And then the consistency fails. And then that's, and that's huge in regards to marketing, right? So that's kind of my first thing is like, why do something that isn't your revenue generating activity when you can hire an expert to help you? Secondly, I would say that

where I don't think a lot of people are doing that strategy where they're recording a bunch of their own content and posting that I don't think that I rarely see recruiters doing that. But most people that are my nitpicky marketing brain, sorry, but not sorry, because I know you guys are except that they're not doing it the right way. It's like all content about themselves or like what I did well or what I see or what I experienced and like

Good marketing focuses on your target market, not on yourself. And this is where a lot of brands go wrong. They just make their marketing about themselves. And that's not interesting to your target market at all. Like you want to hold up a good marketing is holding up a mirror. That's what it is. And most people have the mirror reflected on themselves, not on their target market.

Chad (11:33.401)

Okay.

Chad (11:46.255)

So on LinkedIn, for instance, you'll be talking about client success stories or even using, you know, using stories or anecdotes or what have you with regard to how you were involved, but it's all about the client, what their problem was, so on and so forth. Then on Instagram, you're going to be focused on or TikTok, you're going to be focused on the job seeker stories, the candidate stories, right? So, so being able to really understand your audiences, that's where you're going,

Alexis Meschi (12:03.406)

Absolutely. like there's a place for that success story, right? And there's a place for sharing your wins. Like that's a part of a good framework, but it's also about how. I think like another thing too, like for example, video or other posts, like how many videos do you watch where like the first 30 seconds is somebody rambling? Like, you know,

Chad (12:19.854)

Mm.

Alexis Meschi (12:30.924)

I don't hop on here very often, haven't been here in a while. Like it's like cut the fluff, you know what mean? Because like we do that. And so that's another thing that people are really doing wrong is like the fluff around like, no, nobody has attention span anymore, you know? So anyways, it's all about the strategy and then the audiences and then what you're saying and how you're saying it.

Chad (12:50.253)

Well, and it's funny because Joel and I talk to founders and CEOs all the time and we tell them, nobody wants to hear from you. They don't want to hear from you. They want to hear from your client. They want to hear from somebody who had a problem. Because why? Because they can relate to those people. They understand those people. They probably went through the same shit that those individuals, those clients went through. So stop getting on podcasts.

Alexis Meschi (13:06.956)

Yep.

Chad (13:17.151)

on stage, all this other shit and just talking about yourself. The story should lead to you. It shouldn't fucking start with you.

Alexis Meschi (13:21.465)

Mm hmm. Well said Chad, you can do a mic drop. Joel, do you have a sound for the mic drop?

Joel Cheesman (13:31.447)

I don't cause we never do it. We're never good enough for that. we're never good enough for that. curious because we're, saying, we're seeing an explosion in influencer marketing and people understanding that being on social and creating content is so huge. People don't click on Google links like they used to cause the AI just gives you the answer and there's so much clutter. So we'll get into sort of buying AI and cutting through that clutter, but I'm curious.

Alexis Meschi (13:32.772)

okay. All right. Insert the mic drops down at the chat. Great. That was great. Perfectly well done.

Chad (13:33.231)

Thank you.

Joel Cheesman (13:59.979)

as you have, you're creating basically little influencers out there on social media. As it gets more cluttered, what kind of tips do you have if you're creating content to make sure that you stick out and get noticed?

Alexis Meschi (14:04.366)

The biggest tip that I have is to give people an authentic experience of what it's like to work with you. That's the, that is the easiest, quickest, biggest tip without we're going into like framework and strategy because you know, everyone can produce AI content now in seconds, right? And like our market is being filled with that, but

to really stand out, people want an experience of what it's like to work with you and talk with you. Ultimately, when you get a lead, you want somebody to say to you like, I've seen your stuff or like feel like you can close something so much faster because they know what they kind of get a feel of what you're like. And that is power. That is a powerful brand is one that gives people a real experience. Now there's different types of written content, video form all that do that really well, but ultimately that's what people need to be doing. You know,

Joel Cheesman (14:53.934)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (15:05.106)

So many people do the same thing, right? There's tons of marketing agencies out there, but what makes me stand out, you know, I do think our process stands out, but other than that is how I do what I do, how I work with my clients. And the same can be said for recruiters, staff, and agencies, HR. So the more that you can give people that experience, that's what ultimately attracts business to you.

Joel Cheesman (15:28.26)

You have some great tips on follow up as well. I, don't have to get into that, but you talk about looking at who's seen your profile because not everyone is going to comment or like, and using that as a, as a, as a strategy to, to follow up, which I think is, is great as well. Uh, you're producing some good stuff, obviously. Uh, so let's get into the checklist. Uh, not all AI is created equal. Um, and, and you have some really good tips on.

Alexis Meschi (15:36.587)

No.

Alexis Meschi (15:42.188)

Yeah. Thanks.

Yes.

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (15:53.295)

We're all in a data with AI. Chad and I just got back from a conference. AI is on every trade show booth, every teach, like it's everywhere, but it's not all created equal. So let's get into some of your checklist on what savvy buyers should be asking and what should they be doing to make sure that they're not just buying fluff.

Alexis Meschi (16:13.091)

Yes. So I five different things that you guys should be asking internally or with your team when you're deciding what AI tools or other tools to invest in. And I want you to just think about this for a moment. Give you kind of a visual. I used to be a school teacher. And one of the things that you would never, ever, ever do as a teacher is hop your kids up.

candy and sugar and all these things like a recess time or like a party and then ask them to sit down after and be productive and learn and engage, right? That's like a disaster, a nightmare. That is what is happening with all of the tools right now. You see adults, professionals being sucked into this like candy zone and then expecting them to still generate revenue and get work done. And it's, it's hard to watch.

Chad (16:50.371)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (17:08.184)

but it's also dangerous for like adult productivity. Am I right? Are you guys seeing what I'm seeing here?

Chad (17:13.039)

Yeah, well, in the thing that's killing me, because we just saw OpenAI come out with now, if you're an adult, you can have sensual conversations, right? So it's like they're feeding more of the shit to us. Yeah, they're erotica. So it's like all of this, you know, AI slop that's out there. It's to be quite frank, it's very fucking entertaining. Number one.

Joel Cheesman (17:23.533)

erotica.

Alexis Meschi (17:33.116)

Yeah.

Chad (17:33.773)

And it literally just steals time. If I get on TikTok, it's going to be half an hour easy that I'm going to be on TikTok, right? Just because it just sucks you in. The algorithm is so good. The content creators are so consistent. But yeah, I agree 100%. The whole kids in the candy store thing, there's no question. No question. This is a huge sugar rush.

Alexis Meschi (17:37.912)

Yes.

Joel Cheesman (17:51.758)

Sugar Rush.

Alexis Meschi (17:53.456)

Yeah. Absolutely. So this checklist is for the adults that want to continue generating revenue, being successful at what they do and make sure that they're really deciding on what tools can actually support them or the things that are just going to send them down that rush. Okay. So first question is what problem does this actually solve and how real is the problem?

So is this actually a problem that I'm having? Because I think I just got an email right before we hopped on and the email, I have no idea how I got on the email list. Number one, number two, I don't even know what it was selling, but it was selling a training for something. They did not give me anything real that it was solving. It just hit all of the pain points and everybody is being marketed in this way, but nobody's that's not true. I don't think many people are asking.

Is this even a problem I actually have that I need to have solved? Right. But like we're being attracted by all the flashy tools. and if a vendor, so this email is a perfect example. If the vendor can't articulate what the actual problem is that they're solving and how they're solving it, that is a red flag that that is probably not a tool that you need to invest in. something that people need to be asking is how does this tool create leverage?

Chad (18:50.13)

yeah. Yeah.

Alexis Meschi (19:17.186)

Does it solve a problem that we're actually having?

Chad (19:20.281)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (19:21.144)

But Alexis, everyone is selling that it solves every problem.

Alexis Meschi (19:25.164)

Well, we're going to talk about that in a moment about the like one tool fits all, is ridiculous. like, again, this is. Yeah. I mean, this is what discerning adults should be discerning, but like, I mean, obviously we talk with our clients all the time and there's like every week, like, wait, I just found out about this. That's supposed to sell all the things. But yeah, I mean, but that's, that's the thing we have to be discretionary in that way. Right? Like when we're engaging in the social channels, like whatever it is, whatever it's the tool.

Joel Cheesman (19:27.169)

Okay, okay.

Chad (19:31.641)

Bullshit!

Alexis Meschi (19:53.358)

We have to look at it with an adult lens and ask that question because if it's not even a problem that we actually have, why are you going down the rabbit hole and investing in the free webinars, the trainings that now your hours in, it has not helped you solve any problem whatsoever.

Joel Cheesman (20:04.6)

Yeah.

Chad (20:12.559)

And there are plenty of founders, startup founders and whatnot who are creating solutions to problems that either are not real and, or, and, or they're not prioritized enough where somebody's going to spend money on them. Right? So it's the same kind of scenario. It's like what, from a prioritization standpoint, is this a high enough priority for you to spend your time because

Alexis Meschi (20:23.47)

Right. absolutely.

Chad (20:40.751)

you could, prospectively, be losing money while you're spending that time.

Joel Cheesman (20:45.442)

Yeah. And by the way, time is money. How many, how many people go through the whole demo, the whole process when it could really be a, an efficient process of what problem are you solving? Or here's the problem I need you to solve for me. Can you do it or not? And then we're done or we keep going. A lot of people spend way too much time going through demos of products that they don't need.

Alexis Meschi (20:51.95)

Yeah. I mean, it's become like a part-time job for people. I I have talked to people that have people on staff, like a part-time assistant or so-and-so.

Chad (20:57.369)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (21:18.434)

that they're paying to do these things to try to get things on board. And again, not just wasting the time, but wasting the money. Yes. All right, second question. Does this tool actually work within my existing workflow or is it going to break it? Now, this is like, this is a huge one because I think that this is the lure of the one tool. Everybody is looking for the one tool and I don't think it exists at least yet.

Joel Cheesman (21:24.28)

Yeah, let's go. Number two.

Joel Cheesman (21:33.609)

Chad (21:43.427)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (21:45.27)

our businesses, our human workloads are so nuanced. I don't know if it's ever going to exist because process is so important. We've identified and streamlined processes within our organizations, within our, you know, solo business, whatever it is. And if you're integrated in a new tool, you are changing your process. You are changing in a sense, the foundation of your house. We're talking about foundational work here. We're not talking about a new roof, right? And you have to consider that because if it

Chad (22:06.916)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (22:08.708)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (22:13.408)

If it doesn't integrate, you have to plan on a significant investment of time, resources and energy, or else ultimately the same thing that's going to happen. You're going to invest in it, try it out. You waste a time, you drop it like so many other tools. So I think something that we have to be asking is, will this make my current workflow smoother or will it create another system that I have to babysit and then ultimately end up dropping? Because, know, if it doesn't,

Chad (22:36.559)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (22:42.666)

eliminate friction, it's usually creating friction. And this is a huge part of the workflow that I don't think that people think about because they think it's going to solve a workflow problem.

Joel Cheesman (22:46.276)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (22:53.517)

Well, the wrong people are trying to solve. And we've seen from an MIT study that CEOs are not getting the ROI that they thought they would get from AI. And the big reason is that first and foremost, they're trying to jam it down the throats of recruiters. They're adding to process instead of trying to be more efficient in creating new more efficient processes, right? So I think a lot of it has to do with the wrong people are either trying to develop because your CTOs think they're gods.

Joel Cheesman (23:14.124)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (23:14.975)

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Chad (23:22.063)

and or jam it down the throats of employees who really know what the process is, right? And a lot of them use shortcuts within the process because the process is probably 20 years old.

Alexis Meschi (23:35.022)

Yeah, I think Rand Fishkin just brought that up on your podcast, whenever that was, right? He gave that stat about, don't remember what the stat was basically, has it actually improved process and productivity? And it was a very low statistic of what it actually was.

Joel Cheesman (23:45.4)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (23:49.657)

Yeah. And both of us work with a lot of startups and I think one of the first thing we both tell them is if you're not integrated into like the most popular systems, you might as well not even be in business because most people won't even talk to you unless you're integrated. Nobody wants new tabs open up on their browser. If you can help it.

Alexis Meschi (24:02.894)

No, no, not. Right. Right. number three is what kind of support am I going to get when I implement this? Okay. The biggest red flag is when you ask that kind of question and somebody says, we have a resource library for you to support. I, that is my like run run.

Chad (24:06.031)

You

Workflows. Yes, exactly. Yes.

Joel Cheesman (24:10.648)

Say no to tabs. Good tip. Number three.

Alexis Meschi (24:30.4)

If there is a resource library, that's the answer to the kind of support you're going to get. am just that that means there's like a chat bot and videos that you're supposed to watch or like PDFs that you're supposed to sift through and download. But like you have to be asking the kind of questions of what kind of support you're going to get and that onboarding for you or your team. Like what does that specifically look like? What kind of support will my team get?

Joel Cheesman (24:33.357)

you

Joel Cheesman (24:42.945)

huh.

Alexis Meschi (24:56.866)

Because especially in that initial phase, I mean, how many of us when we need help, we go to find it and we deep dive and then we just abandon the workflow for the day and then we have to repick it back up. So you really need to find out what kind of support you're getting and get a feel for what they're really offering you.

Joel Cheesman (25:13.604)

And this nightmare comes in different labels. I'll add that. mean, Knowledgebase is probably another one. Resource Library, there are certain, you know, there are other names that this is called, but they're basically the same nightmare. Yeah. Hodgepodge of...

Alexis Meschi (25:19.118)

Oof.

Alexis Meschi (25:27.306)

Yes. And you know, nothing wrong with a resource library, but if that's the initial answer to the type of support, that is my like run for the hills.

Joel Cheesman (25:37.89)

Yeah. And if, your support is FAQ page, you're really into FAQ is like, I'm getting, we're getting to know each other, not I've bought the thing and now tell me what the hell I'm supposed to do.

Alexis Meschi (25:41.152)

my gosh. Yes.

Alexis Meschi (25:48.84)

Yes, yes. Yeah.

Chad (25:50.927)

Many, many customer service customer service companies. That's their, that's their, their fallback position. It's, it's all of that until they get the chat bot trolling. So you've got the chat bot that's starting to be the number one. Number two. Oh, we can't answer that. So let's go to the FAQs. And then last but not least, oh, wait a minute. You deserve a human. The seven layers of hell.

Alexis Meschi (26:03.286)

Yes.

Alexis Meschi (26:12.244)

Exactly. Yes. Yeah, I need, I need a phone number and I want someone to pick it up. okay. Fourth question is what does success look like in 30 days? So I think that there has to be benchmarks that you're being shown because a lot of tools, I almost, I don't, and I want to be clear here. I'm not saying systems.

Joel Cheesman (26:14.06)

I'm a live chat man myself. I like the live chat myself. don't know. That's just.

Chad (26:17.743)

You

Alexis Meschi (26:41.366)

or frameworks, I'm saying tools. Tools should deliver some immediate results or results soon. You should not have to wait long term to see results for most tools. And I think that one of the things that people need to ask is after 30 days, what should I see specifically? Because this is where we can really decipher and sift out a lot of that BS of the...

the scarcity marketing that were being sold in the initials. So there should be some of those early benchmarks. So asking what are some of the things that I should see after 30 days? What are some of the things that my team should see after 30 days? And if they can't deliver specifics, right, sometimes numerical things, tangible things, another major red flag from a tool.

Joel Cheesman (27:30.348)

Is there any situation where data is not what you're looking for? Because to me, it's unless you show me specifically what I'm getting from this, don't make it warm and fuzzy. me numbers. I, there, are there situations where I'm wrong on that, where it's okay not to give data in the first 30 days? Yeah.

Alexis Meschi (27:46.702)

I can't think of any, especially for tools. You know what mean? Because tools are really meant to like, again, solve specific problems. So companies should have data. I don't think that, again, if we're talking about a framework or a structure, that that may be a little bit different, but for a tool specifically, same thing. I want metrics and I want numbers.

Joel Cheesman (28:06.488)

And as a branding person, that's a refreshing for you to say that because a lot of branding people are like, well, we're getting out there. We're getting exposure. We're getting awareness. Like you can't really put a number on that. So it's sort of refreshing to hear you and what your product does talk about real data and what's going on.

Alexis Meschi (28:21.455)

I love a metric and I think they're important. All right, last question. And I think this is a really important one. Okay, yes.

Joel Cheesman (28:23.864)

Who doesn't?

Chad (28:25.135)

Mm.

drum roll please. Here we go. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. got to do

Joel Cheesman (28:29.873)

do we want a drum roll? We can do a drum roll. I'm going to be really tempted to give a dad joke, but I will adhere to not doing that.

Chad (28:37.496)

No, no, no.

Joel Cheesman (28:44.676)

It's not playing. Trisha, put it in in editing. Just pretend there's a drum roll, Alexis.

Chad (28:46.033)

Hahaha

Alexis Meschi (28:47.534)

Okay. All right. It's okay. can, I can roll with it. all right. This is kind of a, a contrasting question. How does this tool enhance human connection, not replace it? And I think that this part's really interesting because a lot of tools were looking to change things, but here's the thing. I think that a lot of tools should make recruit recruiters more human.

Chad (28:48.749)

Yes.

Alexis Meschi (29:16.846)

Not less. A lot of tools are supposed to free up our time, help our workflow, help our support so we can be more human because you guys are in such a human centric industry. And if we strip that away and take that away, I think you've lost the purpose of this industry and the purpose of a lot of other industries because more than ever.

people are craving human connection. I mean, that's why we're so engaged in social platforms. That's why we scroll down TikTok for countless hours, right? That's why we ultimately at the root of that, like, we're really getting into like the emotional unpacking here is the desire to be connected with humans and tools. really think should free up your time, support your workflow, solve a problem so you can be a better human for the people that you're supporting.

Candidates want someone that they can trust. Clients want that trust, that connection. They don't want the bots that we talked about, right? So does it free you up so you can be more human? So I think that there's a question here about asking how does this tool help me serve my clients better and help me be a better human for them?

Chad (30:14.223)

Mm.

Chad (30:32.495)

You know, I almost wonder about that because we as humans have failed other humans for so many, so many years, with regard to sending them into a black hole. Sorry. I was trying to look away, but it just automatically, automatically happened. We've sent candidates into black hole forever. And for them to get a chat bot now is refreshing because they're actually getting response, right? Not to mention, you know, if we did crave...

Alexis Meschi (30:38.446)

Okay.

Joel Cheesman (30:40.74)

Why are you looking at me when you say that, Chad? Why are you looking right at me when you're talking about people failing? Jeez, tough crowd.

Joel Cheesman (30:55.737)

Mm-hmm.

Alexis Meschi (30:56.558)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (31:01.327)

human interaction, we would be outside more. We'd be more, we'd be off our goddamn phones. I feel like we are being programmed, and you have three kids or three grown adults. You've seen WALL-E, I'm assuming, the movie WALL-E. Yeah, yes, yes. That's where we're headed. I mean, we're almost there for God's sakes. It's like we're tuned into a screen. We just want to be fed. We want Taco Bell delivered to our front fucking door.

Alexis Meschi (31:11.704)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, it's been a while. Yeah.

Chad (31:31.247)

Uh, and, and Instacart, I mean, if we wanted to actually interact with people, we'd go to the grocery. No, we're doing Instacart. No, we're doing, you know, uh, Uber Eats. We're doing all these different things. Right. So I, it's hard for me. I believe, and I want to believe that humans want that connection, but I, the way that we're behaving, it doesn't feel like it. It feels so much differently here. And let me give you, let me give you an example. I live more than half of the time over in Portugal. Right.

Alexis Meschi (31:52.974)

Yeah.

Chad (32:00.719)

It is an entirely different setup. We are social. We are together. We are out all the time. It has an entirely different feeling. When we're here in the US, it feels like Wall-E. It feels like fucking Wall-E here. So I agree to some extent, depending on what side of the world you're on.

Alexis Meschi (32:21.41)

Okay, Chad, here's where I'm going to disagree with you. I agree with you in the sense of everything that you're saying. I agree that that's what we're being fed and trained and turning into. I disagree at the fundamental you're saying that like, I think we're being trained into wanting that, that it's not what satisfies our soul. If I could go there. think that, yeah, but like think about, yeah, when you're in Europe, like there's a sense of purpose of living.

Chad (32:24.399)

I love it.

Chad (32:31.855)

Hmm?

Chad (32:42.457)

Well, instant gratification is what it is. You don't have to work for things. Yeah.

Alexis Meschi (32:50.754)

The mental health is so different there. The health, physical health, all those things are so different. I feel like what we're being changed and trained into and like wallied into here is so destructive to who we are as humans. So I do think underneath it that we crave that human connection. Because I think that the way that a lot of people are living here, we are not satisfying our soul's desire, our emotional desires. It's like, I mean,

Chad (32:55.912)

the food,

Alexis Meschi (33:20.302)

We complain about society all the time and all of the terrible things that are happening because of a lot of the things you mentioned. So I do still think that internally we want the human connection. We're just letting ourselves be brainwashed.

Chad (33:34.355)

We don't want to work for it, I think is what our issue is. We want instant gratification. We want to have, you know, the hot chick to go out on dates with automatically. We don't want to have to work for it, right? I mean, it's so, yes, I mean, we want all the things. We've got the Instacart, we've got the Uber Eats, we've got all the stuff. But yeah, it's a weird time to be quite frank, as Gen Xers.

Alexis Meschi (33:36.704)

No!

Joel Cheesman (33:56.389)

And it's interesting that Alexis, as Alexis mentioned, like scrolling TikTok as a way to connecting with human beings. feel like connecting isn't just face to face. And Chad, you and I see this as podcast. People who listen to us, they have a relationship with us because we're in their head that is not a real relationship. And when we see them in real life, they f-

Chad (34:17.327)

It's a connection.

Joel Cheesman (34:24.472)

they feel like they know us. And in many ways they do because we're in their heads, you know, on a regular basis. So it's just, I think both can be true. You can have a personal connection or a human connection digitally, but traditionally the face-to-face is that much more better, I guess, for most people. I'm going to be contrarian on another, sort of back to where we were.

Alexis Meschi (34:28.168)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chad (34:37.508)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (34:49.2)

you've, you've thrown a lot of rules at everyone, Alexis, and I feel like there is a, there is a trap of, guess my dad used to say paralysis by analysis and, and there's so many AI tools, so many things to demo and look through. How do you cut through and like to make the decision to move forward? Because I think a lot of people are just like, you know what? Screw it.

Alexis Meschi (34:55.214)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (35:13.016)

We're going to, we're going to keep with status quo. We're not going to go outside of that. Like, why would they get out of the box for those that are saying, geez, more questions I have to ask. Why should I even bother?

Alexis Meschi (35:23.692)

I mean, I think the bottom line of almost anything in business, it's really, really simple. And that is, does this help me generate revenue better? Does this help me do better in business? That's the bottom line. Does it help you in your life? Does it help your workflow or ease? And does it help business stability or growth, depending on what your goals are? That's the bottom line. Like, and I mean, yeah, I mean, it's like the amount of things that people are

Joel Cheesman (35:47.396)

Cash Money.

Alexis Meschi (35:53.678)

chasing that don't do that. I don't get it. I really don't. I mean, I am a person of habit and discipline myself. So like at the bottom line at the root of it, does it help you do that? And if the answer is no, or even like a maybe forget it.

Chad (36:12.003)

Well, what you can't forget is Alexis, because she's going to tell you how you can connect with her. you, again, if you, if you just want to have a conversation, I would assume she's on, so she might be even being on LinkedIn. Who knows? Alexis, if somebody wants to connect with you, carry on the conversation, maybe ask some more questions of their own. Where could they connect with you?

Joel Cheesman (36:19.598)

She's gotta be on social media. She's gotta be on social.

Alexis Meschi (36:32.798)

on LinkedIn. Yeah, so you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I try to share a lot of value regards to things like you guys talked about branding, marketing, follow up, how to do those things better workflow. I am not on other platforms. I'm not on TikTok, surprise, because I don't want my brain to be corrupted. yes, so anyways, but yeah, follow me, find me on LinkedIn. That's kind of where I live.

Chad (36:56.035)

Beautiful.

Joel Cheesman (36:56.345)

woman who doesn't want her brain to be corrupted is a guest on our show. That's irony everybody. And Chad, that's another one in the can. We out!

Chad (37:00.825)

We out!