Neuvoo Thrives & Uncommon Dies

What a week.

Enjoy this week's show, powered by Sovren, Canvas and JobAdx.


Disability Solutions' clients are changing the lives of people with disabilities, including veterans with service related disabilities.​

James Ellis: Hey, this is James Ellis from the talent cast podcast and you are listening to The Chad and Cheese Podcast, which I guess is your choice.

Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors you're listening to. HR is most dangerous podcast Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where hers complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Bottle up boys and girls.

Chad: Yeah. Oh that's so loud, dude. I got a headache. My bad, my bad. Hey gang.

Joel: The liver assault small continues as we had the HR Tech in Vegas this week. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast. HR's most dangerous and apparently thirstiest I'm your cohost

Chad: Joel Cheesman and I'm Chad. Keep it down. So wash on this week. Show new blue, makes it rain. A uncommon slips into the Deadpool and Mickey D's is now serving jobs with those fries. Maybe Alexa, we have a problem. Grab them, make orange, we'll be right back.

Sovren: Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry. The more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting That's S.O.V.R.E.N. Dot com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human Sovren software. So human, you'll want to take it to dinner.

Chad: Spent some time, spend some time with Robert Ruff this week.

Joel: CEO with our buddies over at Sovren.

Chad: Those guys are, they're just fucking smart. I mean, that's all I can say. You see all these companies that go out there and they just try to squeeze people and then that generally doesn't work long term. These guys have a solid, it's solid tech, don't get me wrong, but the way that they do business is pretty legit. I enjoy it.

Joel: They quintessentially quietly grow organically. They don't, they don't puff their chest all that much ever. They just do it right, man. They just send the shadows provide a good service, make money. Good stuff is good to see. Robert, we'll see them at a HR tech where bourbon will be on,

Chad: On the table. So let's say we have some Pappy stowed away for Chad and cheese. Yeah. We, we pushed him for a little higher quality this year. He'll see what I'm like, yeah. Coming back from TA tech dude, Austin food, music and bats and my, my, my liver fucking hates me right now.

Joel: I'm kinda glad I left when I did. Right about now. You were, you were there with family and a, I'm assuming drank

Chad: All weekend. Yeah. Yeah. We drank all weekend. I mean, there are places in the U S where you can get great food. One of them is Austin. It just the, it's, it's kind of like the weird, cool atmosphere, amazing music, sad, this whole bats thing, like every night, right at sunset, over a million band bats under one bridge launch. So everybody comes to see that and get all fucking weirded out and shit. It was just really weird, really cool. Craft beer scene is awesome, which we, we found out one of the mom and pop brewery during our brew review with our friends over at This Way Global. It's not a travel agency, not a travel agency, but big thanks again to David from Assess First. Brian from, Arran over at and Anoop from Seekout for having the balls to get on stage in front of judges like Quincy Valencia from Alexander Mann


Chad: Cindy Songe from Talroo, who I actually had to pull her back. Man, she was like, she was like a pit bull. I loved it. It was awesome. She was pit bull in sneakers. Then Robert Ruff, who just talked about from Sovren, he had the single word question… Blockchain. Yeah. And then he kind of made a sound after that. And then, and then, and then you and me. Right? So there were five of us and it was just, it was a blast. So I'm congrats to Anoop over at Seekout.

Chad: We're going to have all of those pitches packaged up

Chad: And they're going to come out as their own individual podcasts. Again, you know the guys Pez dot. AI assess first and seek out. You'd be able to hear those. And it was a, it was a fun time. Yeah.

Joel: And don't forget, Andreea, who was our winner and Lisbon. Yes. From earlier this year we're giving away now the champion chain. Yes. This is a gold chain, not real gold, cause we're not that rich. It's a, a pseudo gold, but it is heavy and not, she feels real. Yeah. This thing is 10, you know, 10 pounds or so. So we crowned Andreea who was there with the chain and a new, what a great like coincidence that he was wearing a boxer's robe that he was able to sport the chain. We'll be posting that on, on the socials, on the website at Um as usual. All had a great time. Death Match. We'll do it again

Chad: Next year. Oh yeah. Well, and Andreea and she didn't go back to Ireland. She was actually going to, to Vegas and she only had carry on and she was like, I don't know if this thing will fit in my carry on. I was like, you're going to Vegas, you're in Austin. Just wear it. And then just tell them, Oh, I'm going to Vegas. And then like put it in the and whatnot. Oh yeah. So he was like, Oh yeah, no Vegas, you're good.

Joel: And by the way, Andreea, is this, I don't know, five, four, you know, with heels on, I mean, she's a little, she's not, you know, this thing is, it would look large on us. It looks especially large on a, a a fairly petite a woman. Yes. Keeping on with the shoutouts a, you mentioned brew review, but a, this is coming out soon. Give everybody heads up. We tested four beers a microbrew in, in Austin. That was a lot of fun. So that's releasing, coming out this week I think. And this way global will also be at HR tech. I think 1953 is their booth. If my memory is good enough, go check them out at 1953, they're also going to be at Pitchfest, I think one of eight companies that are going to be doing that. So hats off to them. I know they're excited. Go check them out.

Chad: Yeah. And also big shout out to the entire Tengai team, Charlotte, Elin and Sinisa who were decked out in there, Chad and Cheese t-shirts, at TAtech. Tim Meehan from Pontoon was sporting is Chad and Cheese T. And I got to say Emissary.AI they've got their money's worth out of these t-shirts, man. And we still have more to give away this week at HR tech.

Joel: Yeah, we're excited. It's a good shirt. People are good in that. It's a, it's nice a shout out to our buddy Chris Dunn, who we had released a book, the nine faces of HR sounds a little bit I don't know, scandalous. It's a, you know, nine faces to know. Sorry. So check that out. I have not read it, but if Chris is behind it, I'm sure it's a stellar read. Remember the faces of death, a movie afterwards, seventies and eighties. Classic man. It wasn't at blockbuster. It was at like the local you know, riffraff video store. A lot of people don't know what this is. It was this video of people dying and it was totally fucked up.

Chad: Video. It was a series. Faces of Death one too. I mean they just kept going. So this is Kris Dunn's version. Kris, the basis of HR death, the nine phases.

Joel: What do you remember is like the creepiest death in the, in the movie?

Chad: Oh, whatever. There were just really some creepy, nasty, horrible shit like there where I stopped watching this areas is somewhere like in Malaysia or something like that. They had this monkey, ah, the restaurant. Yeah. At a restaurant. And what it was is that you ate fresh monkey brains, but you had to kill the monkey right in front of you. And dude, I mean, I just, I was like, I started, why I'm that this can't be real. It was real at that point. I stopped watching. I just, I couldn't do it anymore. It was bad. See, when you're a human being and you're dying just because you're a fucking idiot, that's one thing. Kind of like the Darwin awards, but that kind of shit.

Joel: Yeah, the monkey brains was met fucked up. But yeah, I agree. Like the dude falling in the alligator pit. Like that's a stupid human shit. But the monkey didn't hurt anybody. Like you know, it's, it's all good. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's get off of a memory lane and a are demented childhood and get back to a shout out.

Chad: She shot off the Kelly, Darren, and Allister. They just took ContentApp.AI is now rebranded as P. A. I. G. E R dot. C. O. Yeah, and from what I'm hearing, they're giving out free demos.

Joel: Oh, I didn't notice. I didn't realize. That's funny. Yeah, they don't do free demos. Every demo is free anyway. I didn't realize I had so many recruiters using their service. Good for them.

Chad: Great. If you guys haven't seen the product, check it out. It's again P A I G E R dot C. O. I use it and it is like amazing cause it just sends you content that is pretty much curated for you, but it sends it to you via text and if you want to send it out via your socials, you to set up your, you set up your different social media accounts and choose the choose the ones yes or no. Send me another one, whatever it is, but your do it via SMS. Right? So you're not having to go to another platform or anything like that. It's really easy. Cool. And I actually find a lot of shit that I wouldn't have found before. Oh, there you go. Seal of approval from Chad for Peloton dude. Yeah, I like the ease of use. All right. Are we done with shutouts? One more. This is hilarious. A very close source, very close source to indeed tells me that a indeed marketing hates us. And I thought about it really hard and I said, you know, we haven't said anything bad about indeed marketing. Have we? I can't, I can't, I can't personally remember, Oh, they hate us. They hate us, Chad and cheese. So I don't understand cause I mean we don't talk shit about indeed marketing Dewey. I mean we might have

Joel: Sure that we do. We've painted on their commercials before, which by the way, I don't mind their new commercials. They're pretty good. Like the app, like you know, the kid who gets a job and his, his parents look at his phone and it's like, Oh, you have three interviews scheduled. They're much better ads recently. So we haven't really talked about those. But to say something nice about indeed marketing the new ads pretty good indeed has much bigger issues than us talking to them, which is why

Chad: Surprise me events. So Chad and she's traveled sponsored by shaker recruitment advertising. That's right. Trains, planes, automobiles, Sherpas, all that sponsored by Shaker. Thanks so much.

Joel: Shout out to Joey Jr who's Cubs will not be in the playoffs this year nor will my Cleveland Indian. So I feel you brother. It's all good.

Chad: Stake to the heart. We're going to be at tech as we said this week on stage in the expo hall, two days in a row. This one is brought to you by our friends at Jobcase. That's right. 70% of people are not.

Chad: Not on LinkedIn. No where they were. They probably are. They're on their way to Jobcase.

Chad: That's what they're doing.

Joel: I see him in the street right now. There they go, Jack. Okay. So I find them. It's that way. Yeah. Boston's that way. Boston is East. Yeah. Go that way.

Chad: Check out the expo hall agenda I think were like on the tech connect stage or something like that. Wednesday at one 15, Thursday at 1115. And hopefully I won't be dead by then and my liver hasn't shut down. Yup. And if we're not there, we'll be at sovereign having perfect prop. God help us. It's nice to, we're having a good break after this one and no shit. Right. And before we go to where Paris, France, yep. October 22nd. SmashFly is sponsoring our little soiree...

Chad: ...Over In Paris on the on the Influencer stage at the Paris convention center. We're going to have Chris Wray group, head of recruitment from Sainsbury's. Yup. Adam Yearsly, global head of talent management from Red Bull and then Brandy Ellis, a head of recruitment marketing from the SmashFly. So that's going to be fucking awesome. I can't wait.

Joel: Red bull gives you wings. Did you know that?

Chad: I guess we'll figure that out, won't we?

Joel: I like it. Like it. Then we get to go to beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona or Nevada ice NIMS meeting in November and to round out the year unless something else comes up. A talent net live in Dallas. A lot of people know Craig Fisher out there. Yup. Recruiting icon. A Dallas has a great recruiting community. Johnny's out there. I'm blanking on people, but Carrie Corbin's out there like a lot of people recruiting. The people will know we'll be there. And so looking forward to I guess ending our travel tour for 2019 in Dallas. December 6th.

Chad: What exactly are we doing out there? Do we have any idea yet? We're doing the show. Are we doing the show? Yeah, we'll do a live show. Should probably, we should probably take requests from the listeners. That's the last show of the year.

Joel: We could do a holiday, you know, finale have people's wish list or are they going to ask?

Chad: Here comes Santa Cheese, here comes Santa Cheese right down Santa Cheese lane.

Joel: Santa cheese. I like that. That's good. I like that. Yeah. And the way my waist is expanding, I'm almost...


Joel: God, let's do this thing. All right. Neuvoo. Yes. I hope I'm saying that right. A French Canadian company out of Montreal I was in the news recently raised a whopping 53 million in Canadian, which if doing the calculation is 40 million us dollars, which is still nothing to sneeze at. I mean the, c'mon people, that's chatbot money.

Chad: So when this came out, it was funny, an analyst, I was actually having a conversation with another analyst and, and he was like, what's all the hubbub about Neuvoo? And then I asked him these questions, I said, okay, how much money is indeed polling in number one. Number two, who is Indeed's competition in that specific space? Right. And number three, how many companies flat-out hate indeed and are looking for an exit? There's your answer.

Joel: There's your answer. There's your answer. You know, I was surprised. They, Michael O'Dell, who's the U S operations had, I guess Dallas, so industry a longtimer he, he showed me some data that showed Neuvoo traffics or passing a CareerBuilder fairly recently in America. Now I know we dog on CareerBuilder. They're definitely on the way of the shrinkage issues, but I mean, that's still, that's still a nice little milestone to make. If I'm an investor, I'm, I'm thinking, you know, Hey, indeed is worth how much okay, I'll throw in a few million to this other vertical job search engine thingy. If it's just a 10th of what you know, indeed is worth, I'm going to make a hell of a lot of money. So it certainly makes sense from an investment standpoint. Now, whether or not Neuvoo can, you know, brand itself well enough around the world build its product, make it better really cut through the clutter. We'll be we'll be interesting and we will be watching, but good luck to them cause the market needs alternatives.

Chad: Oh. God. Yeah. Well, and bringing, bringing guys like O'Dell in. I mean, you know, he's been around this space for awhile, so one of the problems that we have is when you start building teams with really successful individuals who are not from this industry. So they really don't know where all the, the, the potholes and, and really the pitfalls are. O'Dell knows. Right. So I love that. I love that they're actually looking for people who are steeped in this industry that know what's going on. They have their connections. So, you know, good luck to those guys because again, even if you do play second fiddle to indeed, that's still a hell of a lot of cash. And it was funny at the end of the conversation with, with my buddy, he had said, okay, so what I'm hearing is cause they're Canadian and they're coming to the U.S. They're there. Just the much nicer indeed. The more well-mannered indeed. I'm like, yeah, you could, you could definitely say that they're not assholes. That's for sure.

Joel: I, I'm sensing a tee shirt idea in the works, so I, Oh, Michael's listening by the way, talking about quality people. We'll get to this story later, but a lot of good salespeople are on the market now from job boards.

Chad: Maybe they're just going to Alexa or Google Assistant and saying, Hey, find me a job because that's where McDonald's feels everybody should be going.

Joel: I don't think you can order a cheeseburger ad on Alexa, but you can now powered by paradox apply for a job now on its face. This is super impressive. I mean I've, I've been talking about this for a while. I'm sure you have as well. But to be able to voice search, you know, Hey Alexa, I want to apply to for a job at McDonald's, right? Like, great. Okay, what's your name? How old are you? Can you drive dah, dah, dah, whatever those questions are. And then those become an actual application that goes into McDonald's. And then you get a call back. Or maybe you actually schedule an interview through Alexa. So on its face, this was really exciting. But as some people started to dig into it, it was a little less sort of less exciting.

Chad: Yeah. Yeah. So I received an email from a listener across the pond. It was hilarious. And here's, here's the emails, a couple of series of emails. Have you used this yet? What a pile of horse shit. You go through all of the effort to get sent a text with a link to a us only job board so bad. It asked me which country I was in, in German language. First I think this person is not in Germany. Then I said UK, then it sent me a link to the U S site for fuck's sake.

Joel: Yup. Yup. And we had a, so we had aim group. Yeah. It was probably the, the best vendor and industry news source. So they did a search in Portland, Oregon that was unsuccessful. That Alexa came back and said McDonald's is not supported in your area near Orlando, Florida, where they tested at a, Alexis said, welcome to McDonald's, apply through a and added that in order to apply we would have to supply our first name and phone number or dah, dah, dah. Do you agree? So at least in Orlando, it looks like the process works. Now, if, if in the U S I have neither Alexa or Google, so I can't do this, but if you, if you go through the apply section and then they just text you a link to go to a webpage, that obviously sucks. But look, every rookie quarterback sucks in their first game. Everybody gets better. Companies that are eight. So you know, you have a lot of moving parts politically here. McDonald’s wants one thing, paradox wants another, compromise happens, technologies limited. Hopefully they'll figure this shit out. I hope that they are at least someone else figures this out in a way that doesn't send you back to a webpage or go to the store and fill out an application or some other antiquated process.

Chad: Okay. This is exactly why you do not launch shit, because it can affect your brand negatively affect your brand if you're sending people to sites around the world or it doesn't matter. Even saying that you know, a, a brand like McDonald's is not supported in your area, that is fucking ridiculous. And we had this discussion, it was a discussion slash kind of argument with Quincy Valencia, the queen of chatbots where she just said, Hey look, you don't put shit out there.

Joel: And we talked about this. And I think, I think everyone has a certain level of I don't know, patience with new technology. So I tend to look at stuff and go, okay, well they'll figure it out. You tend to have less patients could sour people on that. So I do, I do agree that if you're McDonald's people have an expectation that shit's gonna work or at least there's a promise there that should be fulfilled. Whereas paradox doesn't have the same sort of expectations. So I agree that, that there's some misalignment probably with what a user expects. Certainly a kid who's 18 does not expect to like get a text message and then go to a website. Like they do not expect that at all. They expect, talk to me like a person, take my information and then have McDonald's call me or text me back up scheduled interview or whatever. So the expectations are probably not aligned. And hopefully they'll figure that out.

Chad: The kid doesn't know who Paradox is and they don't give a fuck who Paradox. But here's the thing, McDonald's. Knows who Paradox is. And if they're saying all this shit and it's all fucked up Paradox or McDonald's might not know who Paradox is very long, just because somebody is throwing money at you, you just can't put shit out. Right. Yeah. I totally get it. But you've got to remember that brand means something to that company and if it is tarnishing their brand, it's a very, very easy way to not just lose that one huge fucking client, but to use a ton of other clients.

Joel: Yeah. And it would, would've been prudent to test this on a few areas first. Oh God. Yeah. apparently there was, I mean PR nationwide on this and of course we picked it up and a lot of people picked it up so it wasn't even billed as, Hey, this is sort of a quiet launch in Atlanta or Toledo or something. This was like, it's global and we're ready to go and there's McDonald's everywhere and Alexa is everywhere and this thing is working. So yeah, they, they probably took some missteps with the promotion of it.

Chad: Take a page out of Google's book, put beta on the fucking thing. You saw how burger King launched the impossible burger just in st Louis, which have I think like 60 stores or something like that. So I mean that's what you should have actually talked about launching the test and then setting the expectation as opposed to going, Oh, it's ready. I can't wait. Ask Alexa or Google for a job. And then,

Joel: Yeah, definitely. They definitely should have known that when they launched this, like a lot of people were gonna go, Hey Alexa, I want a job at McDonald's just to see what the hell was going to happen. At least from what we've heard. The preparation for that wasn't awesome.

Chad: And Paradox knows better.

Joel: They just got so excited at second life. Second life Island. So excited. Well, let's get a word from Canvas. I get hungry and hungrier for lunch and we'll talk about some employer brand shit. Sound good? Excellent.

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Chad: Got to get a date with Aman Brar, the first winter of Death Match so that he can get his bling.

Joel: He's going to look good and a champion chain Death Match chain or whatever the fuck we're calling it.

Chad: I like it.

Joel: He's sort of a Mack daddy motherfucker. Anyway put a big ass gold rope on him, man. It's, it's going to be lights out as far as I'm concerned. Already legit. This is just going to put the stamp on it fo sho employment brand. We've got a lot of shit going on. They're a Nike first.

Chad: Now let's go with Burger King first because Burger King, this makes my soul feel good.

Joel: It makes my stomach growl too.

Chad: Yeah. Burger King does this cool fucking marketing campaign. It's called a day without Whopper. So Burger King took a day away. They're not selling their Whopper for a day to support proceeds of McDonald's Big Mac sales being donated to support child cancer research. Much like much like cornering, kind of like The Impossible Burger this is a cult brand move. It's like, look, there's something bigger than us. There's something bigger than hamburgers. There's something bigger than competition in a marketing campaign actually shows two hands holding. It's the Burger King and supposed to be Ronald McDonald.

Joel: The King and the clown.

Chad: And then we saw, Oh, so we also see research that just came out from morning consult and advertising week that said liberal and well educated Americans are far more likely to stay or get away from companies, political stance, right? So they all stop buying you or they'll start buying you because of moves like this, whether it's a political stance or just one of these heartwarming moves, even though burger King telling people not to come buy from them because of the whole reason of it, people are wanting to associate themselves with a brand like Burger King.

Joel: Sure. Burger King is historically gone outside the lines for marketing, whether it's in the competition or that's case, you know, propping up the competition. So, you know, I, it must be a lot more fun being in the marketing department of sort of number two or number three than it is number one because number one, it has to play it so safe. Yeah, that's gotta be pretty boring compared to what the marketing folks, me at Burger King and Wendy's and all the others get to.

Chad: Yeah. But I don't agree because wouldn't you say Nike is the number one brand in sports apparel? Because they don't play it safe. I mean it take a look at the, the whole Kaepernick thing, right. And they focus on really standing for something and they believe in something even if that was Kaepernick taking a knee.

Joel: So there's difference between drawing outside the lines and taking risks. To me, burger King takes risks and draws way outside the lines. I think Nike, Nike would not do something corny or silly like put someone in a King's mask and creep, creep one kids or something like, I agree with you. Like risk taking is every brand should be doing it. And this goes back to like Seth Godin, purple cow shit. Like, and if you're not doing stuff to stand out, you're not going to get noticed. And we're all really day trading on attention right now. What's fascinating to me with Nike and their campaign is that ultimately these are all commodities, right? Like cheeseburgers are more or less commodities. Tennis shoes are basically commodities. What Nike is able to do with its advertising is create a link between Nike and a mission statement or meaning something or purpose. Yeah, yeah. And like, and that's something that I think is missed on Adidas and Under Armor and all the competition, like what they've been able to do is just fascinating and they're crushing it. I mean, in terms of bottom line growth, et cetera. I mean Nike is crushing it because they're able to take a commodity like shoes and create a mission and purpose behind it. It's genius.

Chad: Quoting one of the articles, when you try to reach a new young consumer on their playing field and on their terms, it's no longer simply putting out a great product. You now have to be a company that can stand behind something because the consumer today is demanding that. So all of you bland, boring, we're going to just kind of take a, a defensive posture kinds of brands you're going to lose every time. And I remember critics giving Nike shit because of this and they stood behind it. And this to me in bodies, what a cult brand is. If you do not want to buy my product and you don't believe what I believe, that's you don't have to buy it. You don't have to believe in what we believe there. There are the products out there, right. And they know that they have a segment who they want to stand for. That means something. And that really I think embodies cult brand.

Joel: Yeah. And it's something that we greatly miss in our industry.

Chad: It's horrible.

Joel: Very little of what's our purpose. I mean we just talked about Neuvoo, right? Like Neuvoo is in a prime opportunity to build a brand as the anti


Chad: Well, even beyond that, let's take a look at the actual talent acquisition side of the house and actual brands, right? So Randstad, employer brand survey, do employer reviews even matter? Right. So 57% of job seekers, job candidates avoid companies with negative online reviews. Yet only 34% of HR managers say unflattering reviews actually matter. That's, that's only a third of the population. The rest of the population is like, ah, that shit doesn't matter. Brand doesn't matter? What the fuck?

Joel: To me, that's a whole lot of bearing your head in the sand and hoping it goes away because employers who think that job seekers aren't going to sites to check out reviews and the real dirt and the real nitty gritty on a company are just fooling themselves. How many people aren't even applying to your jobs because you have shitty reviews? Like those people aren't even calculated in the equation. Right? But that's a real thing.

Chad: This is our opportunity in talent acquisition to actually start to make the business case and educate the rest of business, not just losing top talent, but customers. As soon as you can tie that top talent to, to actually the bottom line and how it's impacting the bottom line. Number one, we're not getting top talent because of this. Right? And that's impacting the bottom line. Then taking it a step further to conversations, CEO, COO, CFOs, what about the customer? How's it affecting the customer? Because those individuals that we're impacting could perspectively be influencers or customers. So we're not just screwing ourselves on the top talent side. Shit. It goes well beyond that.