2020 Naughty & Nice List
Ya' better watch out. Ya' better not cry. Better not pout ... 'cause this is the naughty and nice edition of The Chad & Cheese Podcast.
Who was bad? Who was good?
Gotta listen to find out, but - spoiler alert - it's full of Floridians, webcam debauchery, and "wokeness" gone awry. Ho! Ho! Ho! And be sure to give the gift of visiting our sponsors, Jobvite, Sovren, and JobAdx this holiday season.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Disability Solutions is your bridge to the disability community, delivering custom solutions in outreach, recruiting, talent management and compliance.
Christmas Intro (0s):
Merry Christmas. Ya filthy animal.
Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Jingle bells, jingle bells. Keep the change of filthy animals. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast where we're always recording from home alone. I'm your cohost Joel "Griswold" Cheeseman
and I'm Chad "tinsel" Sowash.
On this week's Grinchy episode, we go through this year's naughty and nice lists as well as, you know, stroke, our own egos and sucking up to our sponsors. Ho, ho, ho.
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Joel (1m 60s):
Is 2020 over yet? God dammit.
Chad (2m 3s):
Not yet. We're close, but what you can say that we've definitely gone into content overdrive in 2020. This is our 215th podcast this year alone.
Joel (2m 16s):
And the money I've saved on therapy has been fantastic, thanks to the podcast. By the way, did you see the picture on social media of the mom who let her kids write let it snow on the house windows and the first two windows, the L and the E were on the side of the house. The front of the house said 'tits now.' Classic.
Chad (2m 46s):
I'm sure the kids engineered that one out. I'm 100% sure.
Joel (2m 51s):
I am sure they had no idea. No idea. What are you doing for the Christmas holiday? You're going to be at home, I assume.
Chad (2m 57s):
Yeah, we're going to be home. We're going to be smart. Going to be responsible, like we have this entire fucking year. One thing I am finally happy to announce is that I was able to watch the Tenant movie. I've been waiting for this fucking thing. The movie studios really need to get their shit together. The movie was out in theaters only then it was on Blue Ray. Who the hell uses blue Ray anymore? And then, and then it came out on Amazon Prime.
Joel (3m 27s):
Chad (3m 27s):
Apparently Christopher Nolan. Isn't happy about the, the whole Warner Brothers 2021 releases going to HBO MAX and theaters at the same time. I mean, this is it's, it's just so fucking weird that we have these rich white dudes saying, you know, I want everything in the theater, right? It's like, do you not know we have can pandemic going on? And Disney plus is going to eat your goddamn lunch if you don't do this shit. Right. I mean, it's just, it's really, what's really surreal right now.
Joel (3m 59s):
Yeah. Did you have to pay extra for it or was it part of your Amazon Prime subscription?
Chad (4m 4s):
It was extra. We had that and it didn't give you, it didn't give you an option to, to rent either.
Joel (4m 10s):
Chad (4m 10s):
That's ok, I'll watch it again.
Joel (4m 11s):
My favorite. My favorite Hollywood news tidbit was the Tom Cruise, just ripping of anuses on this set of his latest Mission Impossible movie. I assume you've heard that little soundbite, right?
Chad (4m 24s):
I have, I have. Yeah, he makes it sound like they're like literally saving the world one movie at a time. Right. And I appreciate, you know, trying to try to stick by, you know, the COVID measures that they have in place and the bubble and those types of things. And yeah, I should have fired the fuckers right on the spot. But I mean, seriously listening to it come out of his mouth, first off, nothing sounds genuine anymore coming out of Tom Cruise's mouth. But it was like, you know, it was like, we're saving the world one movie at a time. And I was like, wow.
Joel (4m 58s):
I'm trying to save the fucking industry. You know how many jobs are at stake?
Chad (5m 2s):
Yeah. That was good.
Joel (5m 4s):
Tom's Tom's good stuff. Tom's good stuff. He is psycho. But the dude connect, he is committed to the craft. I will give him that.
Chad (5m 10s):
He should be committed. That's what it is.
Joel (5m 16s):
That was good.
Chad (5m 17s):
Thanks. I got to say Robert Pattinson, in the movie Tenants, Julie and I are sitting there watching it. And I look over her. I was like, who does he look like? And she looks at me in a very disconcerning way, says Max, he looks exactly like Max Armbruster from Talk Push. I couldn't, I couldn't believe it.
Joel (5m 40s):
If the lighting's right. I guess I could, could maybe see that.
Chad (5m 43s):
Joel (5m 45s):
That's good for Max. You ready for some shout outs, man, let's get this show over with so I can drink some Christmas ale.
Chad (5m 50s):
Good Lord. Hit it!
Joel (5m 54s):
I'm going to keep it pretty short aside from, the plugging of stuff that we always do on the show. So we sent out Christmas cards this year, as we did last year. The list this year was much larger than last year because we have people signing up for free shit. And we'd just sort of expanded the list. But my shout out simply goes to our fans. Like, so the story is that, you know, my wife, she sees that I'm mailing Christmas letters and she wants to help. And like, why don't we get, why don't we get the kids to address stuff?
Chad (6m 27s):
Joel (6m 27s):
And I'm like, you know what? Like, it's kind of cool for me to see who the people are, where they live, you know, just, just to somehow connect with them in this way. Now that said, this is the last year that I'm doing Christmas cards because next year, next year, we're sending them out through some service that sends out postcards. Like, we're not, I'm not doing that again. You can do it, but I'm not doing it. And it's just really cool to see where everyone is from, kind of what they do because they, they fill that out on their form. And it's just really humbling to know that so many people listen to us and are willing to give us their time and energy and efforts. And so my shout out, as cheesy as it is, shout out to the fans, they are simply the best.
Joel (7m 12s):
And they're the reason why we exist.
Chad (7m 14s):
Joel (7m 15s):
And what better time of year to, to acknowledge them and then the holidays. Yes,
Chad (7m 19s):
I agree. I've got to, I've got to say thanks to a couple of presents that Julie and I got in the mail. Gem and Thomas from Talent Nexus sent us, a box of British chocolate goodies. Whenever you can get chocolate in the mail, especially chocolate that you can't get here in the States. That's awesome. I asked my British friends here locally, what order I should eat them in because I don't know what's from what?
Joel (7m 46s):
You're sure there, wasn't a note in there saying like, Cheeseman gets some of this. It was, that was all for you. That's exactly right.
Chad (7m 52s):
The last thing you need is chocolate. Then I received a, a package from Latasha Sherman from Page Up one, a shout out for her for sending us Turkish coffee. She said that, you know, instead of sending me beer, she sent Turkish coffee. I've never had it before. It is amazing. And I was just drinking some out of my Chad and Cheese coffee mug. By the way.
Joel (8m 17s):
And what makes it so different from, you know, the Americana stuff.
Chad (8m 21s):
So if you take a look at like espresso grind, it's very fine. Well this Turkish coffee is even finer than that. Number one, you don't filter it. It has a special pot that you put it in. And I mean, there's a whole process not to mention it has cardamom in it, which is a spice. So it is delicious.
Joel (8m 44s):
All right, cool. Turkish coffee, put it on the bucket list.
Chad (8m 47s):
Turkish coffee baby.
Joel (8m 50s):
Shout out, to Beau Higgins from Amazon, he was our beer drop winner for the month. And we sat down for a little zoom tasting with him. The dude's kind of nutty. He wears like a candy cane sport coat on the call and he loves stouts, which aren't at the top of my list usually, but it was nice to do that once in a while and a shout out to Beau. That was a lot of fun, man. We appreciate it. Yeah, that was on sponsored by AdZuna got to put that in.
Chad (9m 20s):
And thanks to the boys that AdZuna for joining us on the call. It's always nice to sit back, have a beer or two and just bullshit on a video call. I'm hoping that everybody out there, because we're on so many video calls a day. I hope that you guys are all taking the time to connect with friends and just have a beer. I mean, I'm next week, have something scheduled with one of my high school buddies, I haven't talked to in a long time and we're going to sit down and have a beer. So do that, treat yourself and reach out to some people that you haven't connected to in a while.
Joel (9m 58s):
Reach out and touch someone.
Chad (9m 60s):
Next. A shout out goes to shaker who sent us popcorn. So which one did you open first? So I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and say it was probably you opened the cheese before you did the carmel. Is that right?
Joel (10m 14s):
I did not take advantage of the free popcorn offer because as you, as you say in your last comment, I don't need any more food in my life. And Shaker's been so nice this year, redoing our website, supporting us. They always have. I thought, you know what, like taking popcorn is maybe one step too far. And so you enjoy that popcorn. And think of me when you, when you down that caramel corn.
Chad (10m 38s):
Well, the girls are home, so, so they need something to munch on. I also did a LinkedIn poll just to, just to see, you know, which one I should open first and in caramel, just edged out the cheese popcorn. So thanks Shaker, the popcorn is delicious. I have had some, yeah.
Joel (10m 58s):
I like it like it. Well, what I like even more with that popcorn would be some Pappy Van Winkle Family Reserve bourbon. And if you haven't gone to freepappy.com to put in your address for a chance to win a 2000 plus dollar bottle of bourbon,
Chad (11m 17s):
Joel (11m 17s):
There's still time to do so. Just head out to freepappy.com. I think we're doing the drawing January 4th or fifth, just to make sure everyone's over there. New Year's hangover before we do the drawing and you can't lose. Even if you don't want one of the Pappy's third place is a bottle of lovely Blanton's reserve from the beautiful country of Japan. A very, very hard to get all of them, bottles of bourbon, and it's free to give us your info and get a chance to win. So why not?
Chad (11m 49s):
Amen. Shout out to Adam Chambers who scored first North American clients. Kevin. Yeah, Kevin Kirkpatrick, over at Humber River Hospital. They made that magical connection just by listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. So, Kevin, I obviously heard Adam pitch Apleychats on Chad and Cheese, and that's what we do. Joel. We bring people together.
Joel (12m 15s):
By the way, I think Adam has submitted his information for free beer and/or Pappy, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to do an ID check on Adam, because I'm still not convinced that dude is over 21. So,
Chad (12m 27s):
I agree. I agree.
Joel (12m 30s):
Shout out to Emissary our texting sponsor. We love those guys. Hope they have a good holiday. If you're not getting Chad and Cheese in your pocket, if you're not getting news alerts, if you're not getting the real nitty-gritty behind the show, you need to text the letters. CC to (833) 799-0321. That's Chad and Cheese in your pocket letters, CC to (833) 799-0321.
Chad (13m 0s):
Joel (13m 3s):
Topics, let's do this thing. All right. So every year we love this show. We do our naughty or nice list. Oh yeah. So Chad and I will go through naughty or nice lists. We'll sort sorta coordinate go one after the other. It'll be fun hopefully quick. And we can all get along, get on with our lives. So I'm going to start off with a naughty one. How could I start off any other way?
Chad (13m 26s):
Joel (13m 27s):
So my, my first naughty, naughty list recipient goes to Indeed. Okay. So this is sort of dark, I hate to start with this one, but vice reported back in may Taylor Gilbert, a 27 year old senior account executive who still works at Indeed this, this many months after Gilbert alleged, that she was basically raped on a sales trip. In 2015, she was a new employee, she was taken advantage of apparently allegedly listeners will also remember a similar case with CareerBuilder.
Joel (14m 8s):
Similar allegations came, came to the front. This is sort of this whole bro culture that happens in every industry, but certainly ours as well. Indeed is not immune to this stuff. I'm still really impressed that that Taylor still works at Indeed. That's gotta be an interesting situation. I did reach out to both her and her attorney for comment on where the lawsuit is. I did not hear back. If I do hear back, I'll let everyone know what they, what they say on the, on the weekly show, but yeah, indeed get your shit together. This whole bro culture is over with, and we need to treat everyone with respect. So for that easy decision, indeed made my naughty list for 2020.
Joel (14m 55s):
Chad (14m 56s):
And I'm wondering, you know, just from this year, honestly, we don't have that physical interaction really anymore. You know, this year, I wonder how that's going to change moving forward. You know, so it's having, having drunk sales conferences, which is pretty much what happens, you know, that's that, that that's, that's always, always, always been an issue. And I wonder how, you know, this new remote kind of work is going to be is going to be different. It's going to change things. I wonder, if it will?
Joel (15m 30s):
Well, a lot of attorneys with a little less to do this year, because less, less interaction between young people working at companies with a lot of alcohol and exotic, exotic locations, offsite.
Chad (15m 42s):
Not cool. Well, I am going to turn it to nice.
Joel (15m 47s):
Aww... What you got?
Chad (15m 49s):
So what happened this year that I thought was nice for us and for the entire industry was the ATS arms race. New CEO Steve Lucas takes the iCIMS reigns in February and in May, iCIMS acquires opening.io. Then about a month ago, it's that 2020 acquisitions continue to go. We've got EasyRecru and then Altru, but you've got to remember this new tech arms race started with JobVite in that one roll-up then Amman took the helm in 2019, he stayed aggressive with 2020 acquisitions.
Chad (16m 31s):
Like Talentagy, then there was an Aquahire of a AI data science team at Predictive Partner. Then we've got Smart Recruiters snapping up conversational AI, Job Power from the EU, which I believe was an incredibly smart acquisition. So I love seeing this action in our space because remember the Taleos of the world, they did partnering, they did shitty integrations. What we're seeing now is we're seeing a bunch of smaller, nimble companies being zapped up by these organizations who are like an iCIMS. You could say as quote unquote legacy, but they're trying not to be legacy.
Chad (17m 12s):
They've got this new brand, they're getting these new technologies integrated into their system. So I'm glad to see this refresh instead of just a constant atrophy of technology.
Joel (17m 24s):
Rolling. Rolling. Rolling. All right. So I'm gonna go with my first nice choice of the show. Obviously, there was some big themes to 2021. We had the black lives matter movement. We always see that Covid a lot of things went wrong in 2020. So a lot of, a lot of people shined when the world got darkest. And my first one goes out to Reed Hastings, founder of, co-founder actually of Netflix. One thing that Reed did that was very exceptional in 2020 is, is he committed, gave $120 million to the United Negro College Fund, Spelman College and Morehouse college.
Joel (18m 9s):
That was exceptional to me. Hastings said, quote, "generally white capital flows to predominantly white institutions. And we need to, to change that." So I thought that he put his money where his mouth was, made a real commitment. So Reed Hastings is a big, nice guy on my list for 2020.
Chad (18m 30s):
You take a look at the endowments of the historically black colleges and universities versus some of the other like Stanford's or the MITs or what have you. There's a huge difference. So, I mean, there's much of an equalizing that we need to do in this country and definitely around the area of academia. No question. Yep.
Joel (18m 56s):
No doubt. No doubt.
Chad (18m 58s):
Excellent So I get to, I get to share my first naughty.
Joel (19m 2s):
Naughty boy, let's hear it.
Chad (19m 4s):
You're going to enjoy this. So remember last year in Austin at TA Tech, right after death match, you and I were pretty much arguing, pretty hard between Seek Out and job.com being the death match winner. One of the big points you made for Aaron was job.com bank role, which I agree. And he said on stage, they bought out three staffing agencies just that month. And that to me was a baller move. And I think that was one of the things that you said it was like, dude, they're bank rolled. It's a, it's a baller move. Well, we found out that wasn't true since job.com first acquisition actually happened in August of this year.
Chad (19m 48s):
So my first naughty goes to Aaron Stewart for trying to bullshit us onstage in public and while he was being recorded, that was a naughty thing to do. Aaron, don't do it again.
Joel (19m 60s):
Now, Aaron, heard us comment on that a few months ago and wanted to come on the show. Right? What happened to that? Did that just fall through the cracks?
Chad (20m 8s):
Yeah, we had something scheduled, but he had other things going on and the reschedule never happened. So Aaron, anytime you want to come on big guy.
Joel (20m 16s):
So that's, that's a good naughty. That's a good idea. What's, let's take a break from all this naughtiness and we'll, we'll continue with the list.
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Joel (21m 5s):
Back to my naughty list. My second one for the year, this one was really easy. And I was trying to think back if they were, they were one of my turkeys and I'm pretty sure that they were as well. So I apologize, but these guys are just too easy, too naughty to me. They were the sort of symbolic bad story of the year. So for me, my second naughty goes out to unwoke.hr. Yes. unwoke.hr. Okay. So back in July, Vice broke a story about a site called unwoke.hr that essentially was a Trumpy in website for jobs where companies could quote, hire courageous free-thinking and freedom, loving individuals, not ID logs, whose only agenda is to weaponize your brand and business to further a radical cause.
Joel (22m 0s):
These guys got trolled, they got hated on. They got really chesty at one point saying FU. We're a real site. We're legitimate shortly thereafter, they sort of became a password protected site. We didn't think much of it. I went to the site a few weeks ago and it was gone shocker. So this idea stunk, it was a, you know, it was a symbol is symbolic site to Trump and, and just sort of the shitty toxic mentality that had been ravaging America. I'm glad that they're gone. I also think that is symbolic to a new day, hopefully that we are looking forward to in 2021 where people don't do this kind of stupid shit.
Joel (22m 46s):
This was very naughty. unwoke.hr. Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split ya as my dad used to say.
Chad (22m 54s):
Screw you guys. And we're glad that you're dead.
Joel (22m 59s):
We'll never know who launched that. I bet we'll never know. No one will ever come out and say, I did it. I did it. Here's why. Sorry.
Chad (23m 8s):
But I mean, overall, if you believe in it that much to actually put up a divisive type of site like that, then yeah. I mean, you should, you should definitely be in front of it.
Joel (23m 18s):
Yeah. And they got real chesty, but that wilted really fast, I think for a lot of reasons, namely, that no company wants to post a job on a site like that, that might've been there first.
Chad (23m 30s):
Yeah. That gets categorized under amateur hour.
Joel (23m 34s):
Chad (23m 35s):
My next nice goes out to diversity equity and inclusion talks. So George Floyd, Ahmad Aubrey, Briana Taylor, and the countless other murders that have heightened the conversation of fairness and equality. 62% of employees want to know what their companies black lives matter stance is. The SCOTUS backs LGBTQ employees against workforce workplace discrimination. The women's soccer team demands equal pay. Torin says he's not taking the vaccine. And guys like us stand back in white bewilderment.
Joel (24m 12s):
Chad (24m 14s):
And we're confused. And why are we confused? Because we weren't on the playing field. We placed ourselves on the bench for those uncomfortable conversations, the marches, the rallies, but in 2020, we got the fuck off the bench and actually dove into those uncomfortable conversations, pressing equity, trying to find guests who could school us and our listeners on topics. So what made my 2020 nice was having Cindy Gallop, grace, this show, and being on two episodes, Madison Butler, challenging racist hiring practices, Alison Robinson from the Mom Project, remind against why mommy tracking hurts business, Maria Cola Cortijo developing tech to help identify and close the wage gap.
Chad (25m 5s):
And Kate Lance helping us understand the science behind a solid and equal mix of men and women at all levels in our workplace. These conversations were hidden to most of us because we chose to sit on the bench. In 2020, we got the fuck off the bench, we're having uncomfortable conversations, we're being more comfortable with them because everybody needs to understand this is who we are and we have to change and be more equitable. So as we, a couple of white guys were sitting in London last year with Torrin said, what do we do? He said, speak up, do something about it. Right?
Chad (25m 45s):
And at that point, I think, you and I, and this podcast got off the bench.
Joel (25m 51s):
It was very impression for what the year would become that you and I had that conversation with Torin. And not only did I think we speak, spoke up, but we had voices on the podcast that obviously spoke for us in a way that we definitely could not. So amen to that. That was, that's an easy, nice list. And you said it much better than I did. I'm going to go a little bit granular on my diversity. My next nice list recipient goes to Jerome Tarnik, a show favorite. Jerome is co-founder of Smart Recruiters, which you know, talking about, you know, walking the walk Jerome, came out, his organization, Smart Recruiters came out public with, I guess I call it a manifesto in terms of what we're going to actually do to make equality a reality in our industry.
Joel (26m 44s):
He came on the show, which was pretty ballsy. We asked some hard questions around pay equity and a few things, and yeah, to his credit, he answered all of those. They appointed a Chief Diversity Officer this year. They've hired, I think, a women of color to executive positions. And in addition to that as if, as if Jerome and I can't say it in my French accent, because I'll butcher it, but Jerome also wrote a fucking book called Hiring Success. He came on the show as well to talk about that. If you want to know more, just dig into the archives at chadcheese.com, but Jerome, Jerome, you make my nice list for 2020.
Joel (27m 25s):
Well done, sir. Well done.
Chad (27m 26s):
Joel (27m 28s):
And with that, let's take a quick break and we'll get into some more naughty or nice.
Jobvite (27m 34s):
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Chad (28m 4s):
I'm going to jump right back into naughty because I haven't had enough naughty.
Joel (28m 8s):
Chad (28m 8s):
Rebounding, what we were just talking about DEI. And then, then also Jerome, I'm going to say, you know, we've also seen a lot of naughty in diversity and inclusion vendors, taking advantage of corporate DEI efforts with meaningless offerings. In September, Glassdoor announced their diversity and inclusion ranking. So first and foremost, hiring companies already hate Glassdoor because they feel like they're being strong, armed into paying Glassdoor to help them quote, massage the message around a brand, right? Just, just, just normally.
Joel (28m 49s):
That's a bad touch.
Chad (28m 50s):
That is a bad touch. The platform is predicated under transparency like any review site, but Glassdoor has become nothing more than an expensive game to play for hiring companies, hiring companies look for ways to manipulate the system and their rankings. So it it's, it's lost time. They could be spending doing something with actual meaning rather than just thinking of different ways to engineer a better score. We need to focus on outcomes and those outcomes being either hiring outcomes or retention outcomes, right. When we're spending our time and our effort doing stupid shit like this on Glassdoor, just to, and I've been a part of companies and have consulted with companies, who've actually had strategies on how to manipulate the system.
Chad (29m 41s):