#Blessed that Recruiters Suck


Sourcing extraordinaire Mike "Batman" Cohen is not the kind of cat who pulls punches, which makes him the perfect guest for the podcast. In this can't-miss episode, the boys discuss the state of recruiting, sourcing ... and the imminent takeover (not so fast!) of the robots.

Enjoy this exclusive brought to you by NEXXT.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

Disability Solutions is your sourcing and recruiting partner for people with disabilities.

Intro:

Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HRS most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where hearse complained with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Bottle up poison.

Joel:

Yeah. Screw spidey senses. He got something better today. What's up boys and girls? You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host Joel Cheesman.

Chad:

And I am Chad Sowash.

Joel:

And today we are blessed to have Mike Batman Cohen, head superhero. I don't know what the title is of Wayne technologies. Mike or should I call you Batman? Like what's, what's sort of podcast etiquette?

Chad:

What's appropriate? Yeah, I don't get it?

Batman:

Publicly prefer Batman or like most of the time I can't get full adoption cause my wife and family refused. So I go by both.

Joel:

Batman. It is. Have you seen the Seinfeld with the Maestro who wants to be called Maestro?

Batman:

No, I don't. Why? I have a strong aversion to Seinfeld.

Joel:

A strong, okay, well this is a separate con... Why do you have a strong aversion to Seinfeld?

Batman:

My dad was a dentist and he had TV's over all of his chairs and he only played Seinfeld. So I only hear like the drill in the background while that show is on.

Joel:

So he loves the anti Dentite episode. I assume.

Batman:

He loves all things Seinfeld.

Chad:

Oh, that's good. Shit. Good shit. So let's, let's learn a little bit more about Batman. Tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Batman:

Yeah, Um on the professional side been an agency side recruiter for 12 and a half, almost 13 years. I owned my own company now because I'm a fairly disgusted with the majority of the recruiting industry and how they're, how it's approached. It's a super low bar of entry with high potential. And so it floods with people just looking to make a buck. So I I actually created a new style of sourcing contract sourcing that isn't based on hours. It's based on a clear deliverables of delivering X number of candidates per role with, you know, personal contact data and then actually doing the outreach and making introductions that way. So I'm hoping to positively impact the industry so people stop spending money to companies who are giving them quote unquote, 40 hours a week with no like true SLAs and instead just say, Hey, you want this thing? Cool. Well, I'm going to give you this thing. The better I am at delivering that thing, the last time it takes me, the more money I can earn. So like we're in mutual alignment with each other.

Chad:

Makes sense. Deliverable, always nice.

Joel:

We got to touch on why Batman before we get to the Q and a, because a lot of people do not know you. They're hearing this podcast saying, who the fuck is this Batman guy? So why the Batman thing?

Batman:

Yeah. as a story, I'll try to condense it. So it's about four years ago, three and a half years ago, I was in New York city as four years and I was working for a boutique staffing agency doing tech recruiting. I had a bunch of like super cool clients, man at the time. And I wanted to work on my personal branding so that way people would want to work with me. Right? And I'm like, all right, Michael Cohen, what can I get? That's my actual name and what can I do with that right? I'm like, Aw, my initials are MC, blah, blah, blah. This was right around the time our current president started running for office, which it probably doesn't seem relevant to most people listening to this, but if you do any level of research or you can remember he had a lawyer and that lawyer was objectively, kind of an idiot and a jerk.

Chad:

You mean the one in jail right now?

Batman:

The one in jail. And he had some epic interviews where he just said some stuff that was just awful. And his name is Michael Cohen. So yeah. So I was like, great, I'm never coming up on the first page of Google ever. And so dude, I, you know, I love Batman. I didn't read comics as a kid at all despite what people think. I, I read my first and I was 19. It was a Batman comic. I fell in love. I figured he's the world's greatest detective, which, you know, as a sourcer and recruiter, that's kind of what we do. And I said, you know what? Let's give it a try and see what happens. And people seem to like it. So,

Chad:

Okay. So with this low bar that you're talking about, cause there's no question we agree with that anybody can get into the into the industry. And don't you find that because of the low bar that recruiters get tagged with being and sourcers get tagged with being a lazy just because of the influx of anybody, quote unquote, anybody can do the fucking job.

Batman:

Yes, but you used a phrase they get tagged as being lazy. I think they're just lazy. By and large. If you look at a group of people, anything, sourcers, recruiters, doctors, lawyers admins, and more than 50% of them are lazy. I don't think you're tagging them as lazy. I think just as a group of humans, they're lazy,

Chad:

But that's not fair though they didn't go to school to be recruiters. They didn't get trained to be recruiters. They weren't they, they came in because there was a job, they thought they could do it. They're really not recruiters. So if you take a look actually probably, but if you look at the core of recruiters who are actually recruiters, would you say that they're lazy?

Batman:

No.

Chad:

Okay.

Batman:

The number unfortunately the percentage is much smaller than it should be.

Chad:

Well we wouldn't have a third party vendor system without lazy recruiters.

Batman:

I'm super grateful. That recruiters suck. I like, I increase like the quality of their recruiting industry, but like not to 100% cause I'd be out of a job.

Chad:

That's the name of this podcast by the way Grateful Recruiters Suck. That's awesome.

Batman:

Yeah, that's perfect. But maybe suck a little bit less. I'm sorry you asked what percentage? It's really tough. I, I think legitimately like how many really good recruiters are out there. I think 20% would be pretty generous. .

Joel:

So we jeez, we talked a lot about the death of sourcing last year and had some, I think pretty smart people who know a thing or two about sourcing. Johnny Campbell for instance, said what 98% of sourcing should be dead at some point. Like what's sort of your view on the present state of sourcing and the future of said profession?

Batman:

Yeah. So I'm going to come out right here and this is going to annoy some people. So bring it, you have my email address everyone. It's online. You can send me hate mail that way. So I'm going to make a blanket statement and say Hey, if you're not actively sourcing all the time, don't give me your fucking comments on sourcing. I don't give a shit what you think about sourcing. I can say the same thing about online training videos are going to be dead in X amount of time cause there'll be ways to automate that shit and people will do it for free on YouTube just recording themselves working. But like I don't know that cause you know I don't do it every day. So like that's annoying as shit. Do I think sourcing will be dead? No, I absolutely do not do. I think shitty sourcers that people who are recruiters who say things like, yeah, I do outbound.

Batman:

And you're like, cool, what are your favorite platforms? And they're like indeed and dice and monster. You're like, Oh cool. You're not, you're not going to have a job. In a couple of years. Once they get like the AI sourcing platforms down, like they're not going to be able to sustain, but like a true sourcer right now, look at people like Amy Miller or Steve Levy who are not approaching this as like, Oh, let me go to LinkedIn and type in the keywords I want and type in the X and Y and Z. Right. The way that we work at Wayne Tech, you're creative about the sourcing. It's not go to platform type in shit. See what comes back send message. It's like a great example. We're working on a CFO for a biopharma company. They need help raising money and IPOing. And so one of my recruiters was like, cool, I'm going to do research then on every biopharma company in a similar space, which is like the immunization space, who IPOed in the last seven years. And then I'm going to find their executive team and I'm going to look at the two or three people who were responsible for raising the money and bringing them through their IPO. And then that's the people that I'm going to reach out to for the role and like there's no tool that's gonna do that.

Joel:

That sounds like thoughtful recruiting. I'm gonna applaud that. Do you feel like sourcing will exist in every industry? So we had someone on recently and we all sort of agreed like high frequency recruiting and hiring will all be at some point. Like do you think that sourcing will only exist in sort of the higher profile jobs or do you think it will continue to exist in all sort of phases of it?

Batman:

I am not a futurist so I don't, I don't, I want to caution and say this is an opinion of mine. Not, not based on empirical evidence.

Joel:

That's all we do on this show.

Batman:

Oh great. Okay, perfect. Then I'll fit right in here. So I think that it will still exist and I think the reason it will exist is the online presence for those folks, right? The blue collar workers in general is not as prevalent and therefore finding them is inherently going to be more difficult. Right? Like so when I was doing a searches for CDL drivers and I was doing searches for like service techs for folks who would literally go out and like clean tanks for the oil and gas industry, the only way that I co