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2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

2023 Predictions Show

You know 'em. You love 'em. It's prediction time for 2023, and we're not messing around this year. That's why we brought on J.T. O’Donnell, AKA "Nostro'Donell," Founder & CEO at Work It Daily to share prediction duty with the boys. Hey, a female perspective is a good thing, trust us. In addition to making 2023 predictions, we go over what we got right and wrong in 2022. As usual, LinkedIn, Indeed, Monster, iCIMS, Greenhouse, Web3 and much more get highlighted. And we may or may not have been drinking on this episode, not that that's a bad thing. Cheers!


Disability Solutions works with employers each step of the way as consultative recruiting and engagement strategists for the disability community.

Intro (0s):

Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle lot, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (20s):

Oh, yeah. Predictions are never wrong. They just haven't happened yet. Hey, boys and girls, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel "Where the hell's my flying car" Cheeseman.

Chad (33s):

This is Chad "Crystal Ball" Sowash.

J.T. O'Donnell (35s):

I am J.T. "Nostradamus" O'Donnell. I didn't say that right. I tried.

Chad (41s):

Nostra Donnell.

Joel (41s):

Nostra Donnell.

J.T. O'Donnell (42s):

Thank you so much for that name. Great start.

Joel (45s):

We're off to a great start in '23. Anyway, on this week's show, you know him. You love him. It's the 2023 prediction show. Yeah, let's do this. J.T., already throwing onion at the show. Way to go. Way to go.

Chad (1m 4s):

I love it. I love it.

J.T. O'Donnell (1m 6s):

Well, I didn't get to pick my own name. What can I say?

Joel (1m 7s):

Promise you'll still share this to your 2 billion followers or whatever it is up to now.

J.T. O'Donnell (1m 12s):

Maybe. Well, we're doing videos, so yes, it's happening. It's gotta happen.

Joel (1m 17s):

Some of our listeners don't know you. This is a very important seat that you sit in, The Prediction Show. This is no joke.

J.T. O'Donnell (1m 25s):

I know.

Joel (1m 25s):

Give the listeners a little bit about you, where they could find out more. Give us a Twitter bio on J.T. and what does J.T. stand for, number one.

J.T. O'Donnell (1m 33s):

Yeah. First of all, I did think it was a joke when I got the email that, "Would you like to be on the show Predictions?" Thank you. J.T. stands for my maiden name. Janine Tanner, but my name is spelled oddly so people always butcher it. You know when they call up and say your name right? I gave up, started going by J.T., and it stuck. That's how I got the name. I've been in the industry. It's just nobody remembers me. I was in staffing, recruiting, and 20 years ago, I decided to hop to the other side and start to become an advocate for the worker because I just knew people needed to learn a little bit more. They were at a disadvantage. That's what I've been doing for 20 years. Then stealthily, in the scene, have been working on some stuff to come back to the other side.

J.T. O'Donnell (2m 15s):

Here I am and now working in recruitment marketing and employer branding space.

Joel (2m 21s):

You are marvelous for 20 years in the industry. I just wanna say that in a non-threatening way.

Chad (2m 25s):

Guess you know why? Because you started when she was three. That's why. In a non cancelling way because this is January. I don't wanna get canceled already in 2023.

Joel (2m 36s):

How are you gonna get canceled? Although J.T. has encouraged us to drink on this show, so who knows where the hell our final prediction will go.

J.T. O'Donnell (2m 44s):

I did. Bring it.

Joel (2m 46s):

Blanton's in Laro. It's gonna be a fun show. It's gonna be a fun show, everybody.

Chad (2m 50s):

Yes, very much. Okay, let's kick this off. 2022 predictions, which we had. We always have something to say, but it doesn't mean that they're always right. I'm gonna go ahead and jump into mine because it's partially right.

Joel (3m 2s):

Let get the wrong buzzer ready. Let me warn this there. Okay, there we go. All right.

Chad (3m 9s):

My first prediction was a paradox twofer, because they just got funding. They had a couple of acquisitions the year before and I knew they were gonna come into 2022 just rolling. I said that they would acquire a European tech company. None of that shit happened, but my second part of it was that they would reposition away from just being a point solution and being more of a major competitor to the applicant tracking system providers, which I can say they definitely have done.

Joel (3m 43s):

Yeah, that sounds like a halfsie.

Chad (3m 45s):

Yeah. I'll get halfsie.

Joel (3m 45s):

We're gonna go off clap. We're gonna go off clap on that one.

Chad (3m 49s):

I'll take it. That'll take it.

Joel (3m 50s):

J.T., do you have any comment about the paradox prediction?

J.T. O'Donnell (3m 52s):

I don't think it counts. I'm sorry. You didn't get it all right, then you don't.

Joel (3m 56s):

That's why you don't make two predictions in one.

Chad (3m 59s):


Joel (3m 59s):

Chad's always on both sides of the fence. You know what I mean? He's always back door, front door.

Chad (4m 4s):

That was one fence. It was the paradox.

Joel (4m 6s):

That's Chad. All right, so I predicted that one well-known restaurant would launch a robot only location.

Chad (4m 11s):

This was a long shot, by the way. This was a fucking long shot.

Joel (4m 19s):

Mostly because I said a brand name like somebody everyone knows. Not some random startup in Idaho, right?

Chad (4m 23s):

Somebody put a flippy in.

Joel (4m 24s):

The gods of of predictions blessed me in December of last year with the following headline. "Burgers, fries, and robots. McDonald's opens first mostly automated location in Dallas." I'm gonna claim if McDonald's gonna do that. I'd say that is an endorsement for robots at your local fast food restaurants coming in 2023.

Chad (4m 54s):

You don't realize how many fast food restaurants we have in America until you leave for a while. I was gone for three months. I was in Europe for a while, came back, and they're fucking everywhere. In Europe, you get the little mom and pop, little restaurants and whatnot, and they're a blue zillion of them. You come here, it is all industrial fast food and it's everywhere. If you're gonna have industrial fast food, you might as well have automation. What's a little grease in your burger? That's not a big deal.

Joel (5m 27s):

Plenty of Burger Kings, McDonald's, and Taco Bells in Europe. Just not where Chad is.

Chad (5m 32s):

All we have to do is take a look at per capita and you will see that we blow them out of the fucking water.

Joel (5m 39s):

But when I Expedia my hotel location, I make sure that there's a Taco Bell, Burger King, or McDonald's within walking distance, which is not a far away from me, Chad.

Chad (5m 49s):

Congrats on that one.

Joel (5m 52s):

In the proximity of my hotel, yes.

Chad (5m 53s):

That was a very big swing and you got that.

Joel (5m 55s):

Not too bad, not too bad.

Chad (5m 56s):

Good prediction. My second one fell flat and I can't believe it fucking fell flat. I predicted that ZipRecruiter would acquire VRVO, did not happen. This is just another reason why ZipRecruiter is dying on the vine. They aren't taking our recommendations. We're giving them free recommendations on the show and they're not even taking the shit. This is why they're dying.

J.T. O'Donnell (6m 18s):

You don't even own a board seat yet.

Joel (6m 23s):

Is ZipRecruiter a common theme on some of your content, J.T.? Do you have an opinion on the Zip?

J.T. O'Donnell (6m 27s):

They're popular right with the job seekers. I think everyone's looking, but most companies, everyone's struggling with. They're not getting the response that they want from whether it's Indeed, Glassdoor, or ZipRecruiter so job seekers are tired of it. I think they all have to figure out a way for the response rates or some form of engagement rate to go up, or it's troublesome. They go the way of some of the other boards.

Joel (6m 54s):

Popular with job seekers, but here's what Wall Street thinks about ZipRecruiter.

Commentator (6m 58s):

60% of the time. It works every time.

Joel (6m 59s):

All right. That's a big hit for you on ZipRecruiter, Chad. All right. My second one from 2022, I predicted that NFTs will be used to recruit and retain talent. The idea was Nike would give NFTs of their athletes to recruiting and retention goals. People would have these valuable NFTs. Unfortunately, aside from Donald Trump getting richer on his NFT collection, and you know you have a few out there in a Chad and Cheese Land, I could not find any proof on the Google machine that NFTs had been used to recruit or retain talent in 2022.

Chad (7m 41s):

I tell you what, Donald Trump showed us a great way to launder money through those little bullshit NFT cards. That was pretty genius in how he scammed the living.

Joel (7m 55s):

Bitcoin is gonna work in Moscow when he sets up shop with Putin in a year.

Chad (8m 2s):

My last, but not least from last year, I predicted that Randstad shuts down Monster. They didn't shut it down, although, they have been selling it off in pieces parts. Ranstad sold Monsters, APAC, and Malise business to Quest Corporation. They didn't get shut down, but they have been sold off. Not everything, but little pieces.

Joel (8m 27s):

Is this your plea for a golf clap?

J.T. O'Donnell (8m 31s):

He's doing it again. He's doing it again.

Chad (8m 34s):

I just have to make sure that the listeners know what's happening, Joel. I don't care about whether I get a buzzer or not. Bastard. Quest literally just changed the Monster brand in Finland to Jolly. The Monster brand is that fucked up in Europe and AsiaPac. They also announced that Monster operations, the actual operations umbrella is going to be rebranded as Found it. That is how bad the Monster brand is in those areas of the world.

Joel (9m 4s):

I don't know, J.T. Is this eh or do we give a golf clap to Chad on his monster?

J.T. O'Donnell (9m 11s):

Oh, I already told you how I feel. It's not a hundred percent.

Chad (9m 16s):

Such a hater. I don't know what she hates so much.

Joel (9m 18s):

If you couldn't tell, Chad was not hugged much as a child so he tries to get as much positive as much as possible.

Chad (9m 24s):

I do like a hug. I like a good hug, yes.

Joel (9m 26s):

Unlike me who was loved by their parents. My final prediction was that at least one startup in our space would get at least a 10 million investment under the guise of recruiting in the Metaverse. Now, while there are endless webinars, blog posts, and news stories about recruiting in the Metaverse, I could not find any evidence on the Google machine that there were any startups that were specifically for recruiting in the Metaverse. We have a long way to go before the Metaverse is a thing in recruiting. One prediction that we got right, Chad, and will continue to get right. People love free shit as we give free shit away on the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (10m 8s):

If you haven't signed up, I know J.T. is at the top of the list for free shit at Chad and Cheese.

J.T. O'Donnell (10m 17s):

I do.

Joel (10m 17s):

You gotta go to, click on the free link. We're talking about free t-shirts from our friends at Job Get. We're talking about free Bourbon Whiskey from Tex Colonel, Beer from Aspen Tech Labs. Am I missing anyone?

Chad (10m 26s):

Rum from Plum Baby.

Joel (10m 27s):

Yeah, that's right. Shout out to Ed Tuske, Chad and Cheese super fan, for winning.

Chad (10m 32s):

Ed from Philly.

Joel (10m 33s):

Philly loves them some rum and Plum is gonna send Ed a nice bottle of rum. He is also celebrating a birthday this month, which is how you win a little bit of rum from Plum. Jenny Shakka Khan, I'm not sure how you pronounce.

Chad (10m 54s):

Walt Disney, yes.

Joel (10m 55s):

From Disney. She is a double whiskey getter. A choice from Chad, a choice from Cheese. It's like the old days of Blockbuster when you got film choices from Chad and film choices from Cheese. Chad picks a bourbon, I pick a bourbon, and you get drunk and have fun. That's how this works. Chad Cheese, free shit. That wraps up 2022. We're gonna take a quick break and J.T. might get to talk in the next next series of predictions. We're gonna get into 2023. Sit tight kids. I'm pouring my second bottle or tram, sorry. All right.

Joel (11m 33s):

All right. All right. 2023.

Chad (11m 38s):

Come on baby.

Joel (11m 38s):

J.T. is chomping at the bit to make a prediction and she is our guest.

J.T. O'Donnell (11m 44s):

I'm ready.

Joel (11m 45s):

Welcome to the show. We're excited to have you here. You're clearly opinionated, you're clearly smart. You've clearly been around the block a few times in this industry. Give us a prediction for 2023.

J.T. O'Donnell (11m 60s):

Prediction number one, the ambition recession is gonna rage on and impact how we recruit. There's a guy named Robert Glazer out of Boston, owns Acceleration Partners. He coined the term, founded on LinkedIn. Basically said, "Look, people are checked out, all these purpose driven professionals are not feeling it. We're going to have to completely change how we get their attention and get them to apply to our jobs." I don't think he's wrong. As someone who spends a ton of time with job seekers right now, I would say there is definitely an ambition recession. People would rather do less or figure out how they're gonna work on their own terms, but they're not gonna be a sellout.

J.T. O'Donnell (12m 42s):

That's the thing I hear time and time again. They just don't wanna do the grind. They don't believe in the hustle. They obviously don't wanna do the long hours. It's gonna get interesting, especially when we're seeing in the news today. Companies are demanding people to come back more than two days a week, more than three days a week. Disney four days a week, right? I don't know. I think the recession's strong. I think you're gonna see a lot of people say, "F it."

Joel (13m 6s):

This came out today that the Hartford did a survey of savings and stress levels for lack of money, and found that some two-thirds of people are stressed about not having enough money. Over 50% have less than a thousand dollars in their bank account for savings. Do people just not give a shit about money anymore?

J.T. O'Donnell (13m 28s):

I think some of it is social media. Social media keeps telling them, prioritize your health, take care of yourself. Don't get stressed out, don't let work run you. That narrative is still going strong everywhere they look. People are feeling, they don't wanna go back to those crazy hours because they almost feel like I said, that they're selling out or they're caving from this big shift to being a purpose-driven professional out of the pandemic, which is, "I'm gonna do work that I wanna do work, that works for me, not the other way around." I think there's a ton of that internal conflict going on with people. I think right now they're gonna push back and figure out how to do more with less or continue to deal with that stress.

Chad (14m 11s):

What's your actual prediction though? Will companies change or will job seekers change? Who's gonna have to change? Because somebody's gonna have to change.

J.T. O'Donnell (14m 18s):

Companies will change. The really smart companies out there are gonna know how to change the narrative, how to change what they're saying, and where they're saying it so that people don't feel like a sellout to come to work for them. That's gonna be the difference. They can feel like they're doing it on their own terms and work them back in, because we've gotta get people excited again about working. We've gotta get them. It doesn't have to necessarily be ambition, but some sort of excitement for work wanting to get there. The smart companies are gonna figure out to do that, but the message is different. It's not the same carrots that we used to hang in front of people. Companies aren't thinking about that so if you really are gonna put whatever you were doing in 2022 on repeat for 2023, they're not gonna bite.

Chad (15m 2s):

Yeah. It was the we are family kind of thing, which is, as a family, we wanna work hard and we wanna work 20 hours a fucking day. You know what I mean? It's one of those things and that's just not passing muster anymore at all. I agree, companies are gonna have to find a new propaganda line to be able to work. It's funny because on the weekly show or on the European show, we talked about how this 28-year-old kid actually took out a 12-year-lease on a condo, on a cruise ship where he's working from anywhere and he is also seeing all of Europe. I think we're at a point where companies are going to have to be more flexible than they've been incredibly rigid over the last shit for forever.

J.T. O'Donnell (15m 52s):

I agree. You're gonna demand them to come back in, they're not going to do it happily. If you don't think that that's gonna impact their work, their productivity, and that they aren't out looking for another job, so the smart companies are gonna create the benefits and perks that work. I'm with you. It's the messaging that is going to have to change. If employers don't do it, they're not gonna get the talent.

Chad (16m 16s):

Oh, it's all propaganda.

Joel (16m 17s):

Sounds like you're bullish on the gig economy as well.

J.T. O'Donnell (16m 20s):

Hey, I am. I've been saying that for years, right? We're not employees anymore. We're businesses of one. We're service providers. We've come full circle from back in the day where you were a farmer, right? My maiden name's Tanner. My family we're Tanners so it's come full circle. Every job's temporary. We're crazy to think that. We're all commodities until we prove otherwise. If we're teaching people that, if the pandemic taught them nothing else, then they're gonna keep going with that. They're going to figure out how to do it for themselves and they're not gonna get a set of golden handcuffs and go into an office four days a week if they don't want to.

Joel (16m 55s):

The beatings will stop when morale improves. Chad, what's your first 2023 prediction?

Chad (16m 57s):

Okay, so Facebook runs from the jobs. We saw how Facebook ejected out of jobs. Google is going to seize the opportunity by releasing paid job ads in the Google for Jobs platform. That will happen in 2023.

Joel (17m 10s):

Pay per click, flat fee. What are we talking?

Chad (17m 14s):

It's gonna be their same scheme. Okay. They're not gonna change their scheme. It's gonna be plug and play. They're just gonna do it with jobs. When you promote something, your ad's gonna be your job.

Joel (17m 32s):

We've talked about this for many years, not many years, but I'm shocked they haven't done it yet. Shocked. The only thing I can think of is that the European antitrust yet just has them so scared that they just wanna hold off on doing it, but this would be a billion dollar business for them.

Chad (17m 50s):

It would. The thing is that you have to take a look at the perspective shift of power though too, because indeed on Google for Jobs doesn't have as much power as they did on pure SEO because they were better at SEO than everybody else. They weren't playing with Google for jobs they currently are. They did here just last year. You have to take a look at the shift of power. Will Google allow other platforms to buy or is it just gonna be direct employers? Are they going to allow agencies just buy to buy for direct employers? To be quite frank, it'll turn into the exact same thing it was before. Indeed was out buying everybody else. It'll be the same as it ever was and Indeed we'll continue to spend more money on ads than anybody else will.

Chad (18m 31s):

Yeah, I think it's gonna be interesting to see how the power struggle changes, and hopefully, they just do direct employers at that point. If they do, I think there's a great opportunity for a shit ton of cash and a releveling of the landscape. It's gonna suck for smaller aggregators, but I think it'll re-level things.

J.T. O'Donnell (18m 53s):

All right. Visualize this for me though. It says ad clearly at the top, and then it says customer service rep, $17 an hour. What am I looking at?

Joel (19m 5s):

I think Chad's talking about the actual job listings.

J.T. O'Donnell (19m 8s):

Not just an ad. Do you think the whole listing's gonna come up when somebody Google it?

Joel (19m 15s):

Sales job at IBM.

J.T. O'Donnell (19m 17s):

They're all gonna come up?

Joel (19m 18s):

Four different job sites have that including IBM's main site, and you'll be able to pay to be first, second, whatever, in terms of the list that people can decide.

J.T. O'Donnell (19m 27s):

You can click on. Interesting.

Joel (19m 29s):

What I do like about it is Google's algorithm is based largely on engagement. The clicks that are gonna get the most, particularly if you're paid for them, are the brands that people know and trust. Those are probably the ones that are gonna be advertising. The advertisers will be LinkedIn, the job boards you know and love. Indeed may hold the hold the line for a few months or years, but they'll eventually crack. The shitty job boards that are fly by night and scamming the whole system are not gonna pay for clicks probably So they're gonna just dwindle away down the line in terms of sites you can pick to apply. I like it for Google, it's bad for Indeed or anyone that competes with them for job postings, but I also like it for the job seeker in that it will help weed out some of the shitty fake bullshit job sites out there, which you know, J.T.

Joel (20m 21s):

Talking to job seekers, they're sick of scams. They're sick of jobs they can't trust.

J.T. O'Donnell (20m 24s):

Right. Number one pet peeve is they never hear back. Number two pet peeve is the amount of weeding they have to do to just even find a job that's relevant. Yeah, I completely agree. They'd like to do away with job boards altogether, the job seeker.

Joel (20m 39s):

Good one, Chad. All right, so my first prediction, and by the way, I sacked up this year. My predictions are either right or wrong. There's no gray area. There's no I made two predictions. One's kind of right. Well, these are all like black and white predictions, all right.

Chad (20m 55s):

Good for you. I appreciate that. Carry on.

Joel (20m 58s):

You're welcome. You're welcome. This is the love I have for you. I sack up for, Chad, everybody. Okay, so my first one is UKG buys ISEMS. Count it. Why do I say this? The popular ATS that most of our listeners know brought in Marketo Steve Lucas in to run the company after Colin left. The idea was to go public, but in 2020, the pandemic came, the public markets crashed, things clearly did not go according to plan. Fast forward to today, Steve Lucas is out as CEO. He's already got a new gig, by the way. It's out of our space, which is pretty common.

Joel (21m 40s):

With with the same PE firm, by the way. Carry on. Pretty common. Yeah, okay. That'll bring me full circle maybe. He's gone. The IPO thing probably is not gonna happen. It's gonna be really hard up for the next two years, probably, especially in our space. Who do they bring in? They bring in Brian Provost to be CEO. Now, why is that important? Well, Provost helps scale a company called Ascentis, which ultimately led to the company being acquired by UKG. If you can't go public and you gotta sell the company for the investors, they've raised over a hundred million at ISEMS, what better way to sell the company to maybe a UKG than to hire the guy who sold a company to UKG being Brian Provost, which leads to my prediction that ISEMS will be sold to UKG in the year 2023.

Chad (22m 32s):

I think it's gonna take more than a year for UKG to bite, but yeah, I think your connecting of the dots there was brilliant. Very good. I'm gonna give you a golf clap right now. Yeah, I think that that's just way too fast for an acquisition of that size.

J.T. O'Donnell (22m 54s):

I agree. ISEMS has been doing a lot of buying. I feel like they wanna try to put that whole thing together, make a go at it, and do something with that. I don't see that happening inside of the year either.

Joel (23m 7s):

Under Steve Lucas, they made a lot of acquisitions. There's no evidence that Brian Provost is gonna start buying up companies. I think Brian's job is to sell the company, but these are predictions. We're having fun. We will know for sure because that is either a right or wrong prediction when we look back on 2023. We've all done our first ones. J.T., we're gonna go back to you because I'm too dumb to keep any kind of different order.

J.T. O'Donnell (23m 31s):

That's fair.

Joel (23m 32s):

What is your second prediction for 2023?

J.T. O'Donnell (23m 33s):

Keep drinking. All right. Second prediction is the Tiktokfication of recruiting. It's a thing. It is going to be a big solid thing. You're gonna know about it.

Chad (23m 44s):

She said big solid thing, by the way. Can we all just take a second?

J.T. O'Donnell (23m 48s):

Simply put, thank you. Here's the deal. Everyone gets on TikTok and says it's fate, right? "Oh, look, this landed on my for you page. It's fate." It's not fate, it's an algorithm.

Chad (24m 5s):

Fucking good algorithm.

J.T. O'Donnell (24m 6s):

Right, and we know how to hack the algorithm. You're gonna see, again, some smart companies start to put content that just stumbles into somebody's feed. They're gonna go down the rabbit hole. They're gonna look the company up on Google, and maybe, if Chad's prediction's right, they're gonna see the job posting there and they're gonna say, "I found my next job." That is because people don't wanna be job seekers anymore. They want to be job shoppers. They want to choose their next employer. Now, if that happens through fate while I'm sitting there on social media, and some story about a company warms my heart or gets me interested, I go down that path, and search and find them, then I controlled my destiny, right?

J.T. O'Donnell (24m 47s):

That happened. I really think smart companies are gonna figure it out. Tiktokfication is here. Whether it's on TikTok, LinkedIn, or Instagram, wherever, but I think the two biggies will be TikTok and LinkedIn. That's where that sudden, "I stumbled across my dream employer story," is gonna make it big.

Chad (25m 3s):

On anything other than TikTok, the algorithms fucking suck, especially LinkedIn. LinkedIn's algorithm is horror bowl. Other than TikTok, which I think you can get some really good targeting on, how do you think this is actually going to work out? To be quite frank, all the other, other than maybe Instagram, Instagram does a halfway decent job, but not great. It's really hard to target. Then Facebook doesn't allow targeting on the job side of the house so how do you see this actually coming to fruition?

J.T. O'Donnell (25m 36s):

I know I'm gonna have a lot of recruiters message me afterwards. I don't take Facebook into consideration because, for job seekers, that's not where they wanna be. It's gonna be TikTok or LinkedIn. With LinkedIn, and I'm not gonna reveal my third prediction because it's fire, but it has to do with where that's headed. All I will say is that there's a change coming and that change is going to make it very possible for people, that algorithm to dramatically improve for people over there. You just gotta trust me on that one but I'm holding my third one hostage.

Joel (26m 10s):

This feels a little 2022 prediction-ish. No?

J.T. O'Donnell (26m 12s):


Joel (26m 12s):

Aren't companies using TikTok to recruit? Aren't they doing some phone videos?

J.T. O'Donnell (26m 16s):

No. Infantile, they dunno what they're doing. I think they've gotten comfortable having their employees get on there. That's not recruiting. Allowing your employees on TikTok is one thing. Having a strategy so that the stories find their way into my feed and I identify with that person and, "Oh my gosh, he or she's like me. I'm gonna go check this company out," that is what's going to happen next.

Joel (26m 41s):

Do you think we'll see a startup come with the sales pitch of we'll help you advertise or figure out TikTok?

J.T. O'Donnell (26m 48s):

Already happening.

Joel (26m 49s):

But for recruiting though.

J.T. O'Donnell (26m 50s):


Joel (26m 50s):