A recruitment marketing podcast with a surprise news alert? Yes, please. Recruitics made a move that all three hosts like a lot. But listen and make up your own mind. Regularly scheduled news, however, includes everything from tip bullying to Miller Lite following Bud Light, bending conservatives out of shape to Goodwill doing, well, good. All the feels in this episode.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Disability Solutions works with employers each step of the way as consultative recruiting and engagement strategists for the disability community.
S?: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Joel Cheesman: Oh yeah. News out of Tesla says Elon must personally approve every new hire. That'll certainly speed up the hiring process. Hi kids, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Recruitment Marketing. I'm your cohost Joel "Model Y" Cheesman.
Chad Sowash: And I'm Chad "Elon is The King of Dick Moves" Sowash.
Julie Calli: I'm Julie "Real Human Intelligence" Calli.
Joel Cheesman: On this episode, Miller Lite stirs up Conservatives, Goodwill gets a new life and working nine-to-five is no way to make a living anymore. Thanks, Dolly Parton. Well, let's do this.
Chad Sowash: So, I was told this week that I'm not a real European unless I'm watching Eurovision. I didn't know this is a thing.
Joel Cheesman: What the fuck is Eurovision?
Julie Calli: Is it like Hulu?
Joel Cheesman: Is it like Hulu?
Chad Sowash: That was the thing that actually created ABBA. Did you not know that? It's kinda like the America's Got Talent before America's Got Talent, but it brings all the European countries together. It's what ABBA won to become ABBA. So, yeah. So again, this is something that the Europeans keep away from us Americans so that they can have it all to themselves.
Joel Cheesman: So, it's like American Idol for Americans. And there's also a really bad Will Ferrell movie, I think, called Eurovision.
Chad Sowash: It was. Oh, it wasn't bad. It was amazing.
Joel Cheesman: It was awful.
Chad Sowash: That was hilarious, dude, I love it.
Joel Cheesman: It was awful.
Chad Sowash: Watch your mouth.
Joel Cheesman: Will Ferrell's either like gold or trash.
Chad Sowash: He's always gold.
Julie Calli: I'm a fan.
Joel Cheesman: I know. He's always got a good quote in every movie, but some of his movies, man, I just... I can't do it.
Chad Sowash: Was it the Blades of Glory? I mean, that was horrible at first and I've watched it like a dozen times since.
Julie Calli: You're right. It's like a fine wine. If it sits a couple years, it gets funnier, [laughter] maybe.
Chad Sowash: Fine wine.
Joel Cheesman: Napoleon Dynamite. What happened to that dude? That was supposed to be his like big leap into the stratosphere of celebrity stardom, but I think he's just like living in Utah, skiing now.
Chad Sowash: Him and Pedro. I mean, what happened to Pedro? I mean, seriously.
Joel Cheesman: Pedro's on the corporate speaking circuit talking about how to win elections.
Julie Calli: Vote Pedro.
Chad Sowash: Vote for Pedro, baby. Vote for Pedro.
Joel Cheesman: That is a great movie, by the way.
Chad Sowash: Shoutout, eat your food, Tina. [laughter]
Joel Cheesman: Do these chickens have talons? What did you say? Alright, I got a shoutout, everybody.
Chad Sowash: Okay.
Joel Cheesman: Tip bullying apparently is a thing now.
Chad Sowash: Oh, good God.
Joel Cheesman: I don't know if you've heard about this. So, the Wall Street Journal had a story this week about how self-checkout machines at various establishments now prompt customers to leave a default 20% tip even if there is minimal or zero interaction...
Chad Sowash: Yes.
Joel Cheesman: With an employee. Some experts argue that companies are shifting the responsibility of paying employees onto customers instead of increasing salaries themselves. So, this phenomenon known as tip creep aims to encourage higher tips in transactional situations. The article claims customers perceive self-tipping as a form of emotional blackmail. I like that. How do you guys feel?
SFX: Emotional damage.
Chad Sowash: Dude, I think it's fricking horrible. I don't know. Julie, how many times have you actually gone and gotten a coffee, and then this thing prompts you and you have to go to custom? There's no no tip. You gotta go to custom and then hit no tip. Have you gone through this?
Julie Calli: You know, I do a lot of takeout and I feel like I still have to tip when I do takeout. But...
Chad Sowash: Really?
Julie Calli: I can't even bring... I can't bring myself to spend money on buying coffee. It's just... Why pay $5 for a cup of coffee you could have made at home? I have a really hard time with that.
Joel Cheesman: Problem is it's not just coffee, it's everything now.
Julie Calli: Yeah.
Chad Sowash: No, it's everything. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: If you pay digitally with a credit card... And by the way, Chad, if you push customize, it's a pain in the ass. It's like an exact amount...
Chad Sowash: No, it is. Yep.
Joel Cheesman: Percentage... And it's worse if you got people behind you like self-checkout, you feel like an ass if you don't tip even though you know you don't want to and the person behind you feels guilty if you tip...
Chad Sowash: Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: And then they don't tip. I know what you're gonna say. It all comes down to like, let's pay a fair wage. Let's be like Europe and just tap and go and be done with it.
Chad Sowash: Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's the biggest problem I see is we're not paying real wages as it is in the first place, living wages in that case. So, we automatically go figure... The company's like, "Well, if they had good service, then they'll go ahead and tip." Well, that's total bullshit anyway. We need to start taking a look at wages and when we're all... The thing... This just drives me crazy. First off, whenever we start talking about inflation, the only thing that we can talk about is wages and how wages have come up. And we don't look at the CEO wages that have exploded, since 1978, 1500%. We look at the bottom line that has only gone up less than 20%. And we're like, all those people, they're the problem. We don't look at profiteering, we don't look at any of this stuff. But yet, we have to focus on, "Oh, let's go ahead and see if we can shame people into tips instead of... " Just the entire system in the United States from a payment and a wage and compensation standpoint is totally fucked up.
Julie Calli: Yeah. Is that tipping or is that charity? Are are we trying to fill in the compensation because the company can't afford to pay that wage?
Chad Sowash: That's a good point. Yeah.
Julie Calli: And then it's unpredictable for the employee. Like, "How many people are gonna tip me today? Will I be able to pay my rent?" It's not predictable income.
Chad Sowash: Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: And there's a lot of ambiguity. Like if you tip... If you give a waitress five bucks, you know that five bucks is going in the pocket of that waitress. If you digitally donate 20%, who the hell knows where that goes, to be honest? It's not like at the end of the night, everyone gets paid a percentage of what came in digitally.
Chad Sowash: Well, then you take a look at the experience. And this is going off-track a little bit, but when we take a look at actually having dinner in Europe, they're not trying to turn and burn tables because they don't need that next tip. "How many tables did you turn so I can get more tips out of those tables?" And they're always coming back, "What's next?" They're politely pushing you out the door here in Europe. I mean, if you don't have a three-hour dinner, you didn't have dinner, for god's sakes. And it's amazing, 'cause again, you go and you tap and you go, nobody asks for a tip. Nobody thinks about asking for a tip because they make a great livable wage for where they're at. And it's crazy. Again, America's fucked up when it comes to salaries, wages and focusing on the bottom line as opposed to the assholes up top who are getting 1500% boosts.
Julie Calli: Right. And tips originally were almost a way a bit of an incentive, like good service, you get tipped at the end for providing quality service. But if you're paying for your coffee upfront, you don't even have your coffee yet, you still need to wait 15 minutes to get it, for somebody to write your name on it and move it at the end of the line.
Chad Sowash: And they didn't even spell your name right, for god's sakes. Come on.
Julie Calli: So, you're tipping upfront, but yet you have no idea...
Chad Sowash: Yeah.
Julie Calli: The service is incomplete. [laughter] So you're like, "Here is a tip. I hope to get my coffee within the next five minutes."
Joel Cheesman: For our listeners who haven't been to Europe, it's so nice to go into a bar, get a drink, round of drinks, whatever, pull out the thing, tap and you're done. In America, it's like, "Do you wanna start a tab? Yes or no?" "Here's my card, let me go run it," get the thing, sign it, get a tip... It's such a nice way to do business when you just tap and go in the bar. It's bad for my liver...
Chad Sowash: It's amazing.
Joel Cheesman: But it is good for efficiency. By the way, Chad, I know you're a Galloway listener.
Chad Sowash: Yes.
Joel Cheesman: In his market podcast, they talked about the writers strike in Hollywood and all the money that CEOs in entertainment are making right now and his co-host said, "Why don't the CEOs just reduce their pay so that they can pay the writers?" [chuckle] And of course, Galloway is like, "That's really cute that you would think the CEOs would reduce their pay to pay the writers."
Chad Sowash: Yeah. Well, I mean, Galloway's onboard with making as much money as he fucking possibly can.
Joel Cheesman: Oh, he's a capitalist.
Chad Sowash: He's a capitalist who lives in fucking London. Fuck that dude.
Julie Calli: Yeah, I mean, I feel for the writers. I know whenever people need to go on strike, it's to make a point, it's to make a stand, but of all the times to make a stand, writers are at the top of the list of their careers being threatened by AI and they're like, "Hey, now's the time. Now that I'm replaceable by artificial intelligence, now I think I'm gonna demand more pay." [laughter]
Joel Cheesman: Yeah. Like most things in life, it's all the millennials' fault. All the password-sharing, none of y'all were paying, none of y'all were paying for Netflix and now the writers get to pay for it. Thanks, millennials. Thanks, millennials.
Chad Sowash: Oh, shit. My shoutout goes to events. I can't say enough. And again, we're a little ways out of COVID, but I can't say how much it... How good it feels just to see people again, to be on stage.
Chad Sowash: Oh yeah. It is amazing to be in ferris wheels, to do VIP events. I mean, this is how life was meant to live kids, and we're just having a great time. All the events that we're going to, one event, get ready kids, we're gonna be at RecFest in London just north and in Knebworth Park. And the very first RecFest in the US is happening in Nashville, happening in September, so you got plenty of time. You go to chadcheese.com, click on Events. If you click on the discount code in our events section, hell, it's in the header, for god's sakes, it's a hero image, click on Sign up or Register Here, or whatever the hell it says and you'll get a 50% off from Chad and Cheese. Bring your entire team because that's what RecFest is about, it's about community, it's about bringing the whole team together. And an all-hands day in Nashville is exactly what your team needs. So, go to chadcheese.com, click on Events, click Sign up and boom baby, we'll see you there.
Joel Cheesman: Groupons from Chad and Cheese, that's what I'm talking about. And we get to see Julie Calli in Vegas. That was the first show of the year.
Chad Sowash: Oh yeah.
Joel Cheesman: And Julie Calli is in the house.
Julie Calli: Yeah, that was great.
Chad Sowash: We were up in a ferris wheel.
Julie Calli: Oh, the high roller was awesome. [laughter]
Joel Cheesman: I'm on a boat and a ferris wheel.
Julie Calli: Yeah. Thank you to HiringBranch for that trip in the high roller. I just thought it was like a ferris wheel, and then the doors opened and there was a bar inside of it. I was like, "What am"
Joel Cheesman: A bartender.
Julie Calli: "I climbing aboard?" And then I was just so overjoyed.
Chad Sowash: Is this a penis rocket?
Julie Calli: With all the people that were... It was a great move too, to seal us all in a little pod together. [laughter] But then you put a whole bunch of talkers in a pod together and I was enjoying all the conversation, I realized, "Oh yeah, let me look at the view." [chuckle] I almost didn't even look out the window. I was so excited to talk to everyone.
Joel Cheesman: I have a request, Chad.
Chad Sowash: Yes.
Joel Cheesman: I know Jamie listens to the show at RecFest.
Chad Sowash: Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joel Cheesman: Come to America, the ferris wheel is a cutesy thing in England, I get that. You got the Eye in London. You're coming to Nashville, I want a mechanical bull. I want a mechanical bull at RecFest and I will ride it.
Julie Calli: You will?
Joel Cheesman: On record.
Chad Sowash: I can see...
Joel Cheesman: Yes.
Chad Sowash: I can see a Chad and Cheese VIP event with a mechanical bull. Oh, wait a minute. Alright.
Joel Cheesman: I'm talking chaps, pants, optional, baby. That's what I'm talking about. And an electrical bull. Do it Jamie.
Chad Sowash: I do not want Cheesman ass-less chaps, okay?
Joel Cheesman: Come on, Jamie.
Chad Sowash: That's not... No, no, I don't want that.
Joel Cheesman: Give me a bull, Jamie.
Julie Calli: Should I control it? [laughter]
Joel Cheesman: Get me a bull.
Chad Sowash: Sure.
Joel Cheesman: There you go.
Chad Sowash: He can't even control it. Are you kidding me?
Joel Cheesman: Control the bull, baby. Here we go.
Joel Cheesman: And topics. Alright. Well, listeners will remember discussing Bud Light's ad featuring a trans influencer which led to an outcry by Conservatives. Well, Miller Lite is in the news this week for what conservatives are calling a woke ad. The surprise is the ad came out in March, nearly a month before the Bud Light ad. Listeners, if you haven't seen it or heard it, let's sample it and we'll talk about it on the other side.
Miller Lite Commercial: Here's a little known fact. Women were among the very first to brew beer ever. From Mesopotamia to the Middle Ages to Colonial America, women were the ones doing the brewing. Centuries later, how did the industry pay homage to the founding mothers of beer? They put us in bikinis. Wow. Look at this shit. Wild. It's time beer made it up to women. So today, Miller Lite is on a mission to clean up not just their shit, but the whole beer industry's shit. Miller Lite has been scouring the internet for all this shit and buying it back so that we can turn it into good shit for women brewers. Literally, good shit. How, you ask? Ladies, take it away.
Miller Lite Commercial: First, we turn the bad shit into compost, then we feed compost to worms, beautiful fertilizer.
Miller Lite Commercial: That good shit helps farmers grow quality hops.
Miller Lite Commercial: Which is then donated to women brewers to make their own really good shit.
Miller Lite Commercial: But there's definitely more shit out there, in your attic, in the garage, in your parents' basement. Send any shit you got to Miller Lite and they'll turn that into good shit, too. Oh, so here's to women, because without us, there would be no beer.
Joel Cheesman: Alright, Julie Calli, you are a woman, what are your thoughts on the Miller Lite campaign?
Julie Calli: Oh, it feels a little like it's pandering a bit, but I'm glad to see that at least it's calling out the truth of, yes, women have been used to sell beer, but at least this is giving some credit to, women also took a big part in making beer throughout the centuries. But I read a lot of the comments on social media and I'm like, why are people getting all rallied up about? It's a commercial. It's a commercial and it's trying to change the narrative a little bit and be more respectful in the way that it's doing this commercial. I'll take that. I'll take that recognition that women may have been used in beer commercials in ways that are maybe not the same that we want going forward. And it's making a change. And it's not just calling out their own ads. It's calling out everybody's ads. I'm for it. I'd say go for it. Keep changing the narrative to things that are more inclusive today.
Joel Cheesman: Julie, you came of age in the '80s, '90s and these beer ads. How did you feel as a young woman watching these ads? Did you take offense? Did it impact you in any way?
Julie Calli: It painted a lot of pictures of what I thought I was supposed to look like. Certainly had a lot of influence on that. And I would say at a young age, I truthfully feel that a lot of the impression that was put on me is it mattered more what your beauty was than your brains. And when you're young, you have youth on your side, [laughter] and then as you get older, you realize that's not what matters. So, I would say that I didn't really start to feel even as if there was more to myself to offer beyond beauty until I started to get into my young 20s. And then I started to realize how powerful my own brain was, but that was never something that was real... I wasn't growing up seeing female doctors on TV. I wasn't seeing female CEOs in my youth.
Julie Calli: So, I was inspired by other working women who were going to school and getting an education and fighting for a place in the workforce of equal opportunity. So I got to witness that. I wanted to be part of that and I stood my ground as I entered into this space. But I realized that that was not what it was like before. So yeah, I think that those commercials had a huge influence. And while the beer commercials might change going forward in the future, young women are still very vulnerable due to social media today, which is something I didn't have in my youth.
Chad Sowash: Well, and remember there was a time when bulimia was... I mean, it was literally... It was like an outbreak.
Joel Cheesman: Sure, eating disorders.
Chad Sowash: And a lot of that, you could definitely tie to those commercials, those ads, and just the whole idea of what a "woman" should look like.
Julie Calli: Yep.
Chad Sowash: Right? So, I think, going back to the people that are saying this is woke, what we're seeing is what they call selective rage campaigns and people are creating rage where it doesn't really exist. Okay? This is truth, much like critical race theory. They have problems with that. They have problems with history. I mean, it's fucking history. It's history you weren't taught. It doesn't mean it's not true. Right? So, now we're doing the same thing with females saying, "Hey look, women created beer. Guess what guys, you like it, that's great, but we created beer." So, these are things that we as human beings we need to be aware of, that many of these things we're that calling things "woke", it's just a selective rage campaign to be able to try to pull the narrative away from things that actually fucking matter.
Chad Sowash: I mean, things that matter versus things that really don't matter. I mean, this doesn't matter other than being able to just tell history. It matters from that standpoint and we should be doing this. But it's pulling and it's diverting away from conversations we should be happening because this is... Or we should be having. But this is something that's important.
Joel Cheesman: Julie, are you more likely to buy a Miller Lite product or a product by the Molson Coors Company because of this ad?
Julie Calli: Well, I already drink Miller Lite, [laughter] so now I'm just gonna raise my beer a little prouder, I think.
Chad Sowash: There you go. [laughter]
Joel Cheesman: Okay.
Julie Calli: But today, Miller Lite and who's next? Right? I just feel that every brand when they make an attempt now to stand for something, there's gonna be somebody out there starting a campaign against them about why it's wrong that you gotta stand for something right.
Chad Sowash: Well, talk about Bud Light though, 'cause they folded like a two-card table after we were giving them huge kudos.
Julie Calli: Yeah, disappointed in them.
Chad Sowash: What is a brand to do, especially in the United States when all we do is we focus from quarter to quarter? We're not looking long-term, right? We're not looking long-term. We're looking from quarter-to-quarter and we're answering to shareholders, it seems like, every five fucking minutes as opposed to being able to plan long-term, which is what we were really focusing on and saying, "Hey, these guys have been around for 170-plus years, right?"
Joel Cheesman: Yeah.
Chad Sowash: They wanna be around for another 170-plus years. They've gotta think long-term. But they got shot. Well, they really didn't get shot down. They shot themselves down.
Julie Calli: Yeah, they did. Now, instead of standing with one side, they folded on both, right? So now, who do you stand for? Nothing and nobody. And that's not it. We talk about being a cult brand, people gravitate towards something that's authentic and real that they wanna be part of. So stand for something and people will stand with you. But Budweiser really messed that up. They really did.
Joel Cheesman: I think it's an important message for the kids that if you can't... What really changes the world is voting and money. And I was in a conversation with my two nieces who are in their 20s and I was asking about the Bud Light ad, what they thought about it. And of course, they were upset and didn't understand and they responded as you thought that they would. And I said, "Okay. Did you guys go out and buy some Bud Light in response to this ad?" and both of them said no. They had other things to spend money on, whatever. And I said, "You can feel as strong as you want, but until you spend money or you can vote, things are gonna change much more slowly than they would otherwise." And if you look at... Obviously, Budweiser stock is down about 8% from last month. Miller Lite's parent company's stock is down around 3% on this story. Now, if all the women in the world or in America said, "Let's all go buy Miller Lite," and their earnings report went through the roof, we'd see more ads promoting women in a fair and balanced way.
Joel Cheesman: So just for the kids, until money is spent, companies aren't gonna go near transgender issues for a really long time. It's gonna have to be a start-up that is willing to take chances. But a big established company like this is gonna be really gun-shy because of the Bud Light issue. And what's interesting to me as well is the whole Disney Florida thing is also another touchstone for Conservatives and going on talk radio and Fox News. The Little Mermaid comes out this month, and Chad and I were lucky enough at iCIMS to meet an influencer on TikTok whose daughter's seen the Little Mermaid ad and it's an African-American Black mermaid.
Joel Cheesman: Everyone who wants fairness, inclusivity, go see the Little Mermaid because if Disney can crush it at the box office, you're gonna see more movies like this and more inclusion in that. If this movie flops for whatever reason, it's gonna be another punch in the gut to sort of this entertainment and advertising and marketing being more inclusive.
Julie Calli: Yeah. So, sign me up. I wanna be right there in the front row to see that movie. It almost brought tears to my eyes to see some of the videos. I'm getting choked up just saying this. Seeing the videos of moms recording their daughters and them seeing themselves in the Little Mermaid like, "She looks like me." Right?
Joel Cheesman: Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash: Yeah.
Julie Calli: To see the look on those kids' faces, it made me realize just how much they're starving to see themselves in the types of movies and entertainment that we create. And it was incredibly touching to see that. And I was fist-bumping immediately after seeing that, the response of the children's faces and they're seeing inclusion. That was really touching for me.
Chad Sowash: That to me... I mean, you're right. I teared up watching those kids saying, "It's me."
Julie Calli: Yeah, they were in such shock. [laughter]
Chad Sowash: Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: So go see the Little Mermaid everybody and have a pint of Miller Lite after the show. We'll be right back.
Joel Cheesman: Let's talk a little bit about Goodwill, shall we? So Goodwill, the place Chad likes to donate his used jockstraps, has launched...
Chad Sowash: I haven't worn one of those since I've been like 18. [laughter]
Joel Cheesman: Do they still sell jockstraps?
Chad Sowash: I don't know.
Joel Cheesman: Anyway, anyway. Okay, alright, so they launched a new ad campaign called New Lives to highlight the impact of donations on changing lives and supporting individuals facing employment challenges. The campaign showcases the stories of Goodwill job seekers and emphasizes how public donations play a vital role in empowering these individuals. The campaign is based on consumer surveys that revealed increased support for Goodwill's mission among donors, shoppers and job seekers. Julie, just like Chad and I, you probably buy from Goodwill from time to time. What are your thoughts on their new ad campaign called New Lives?
Julie Calli: Yeah, I love Goodwill. I shop there a lot, actually. I find more interesting things there than I do at the mall. [laughter]
Joel Cheesman: And if you got kids, it's invaluable.
Julie Calli: Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: They outgrow this shit in a week, pay a dollar for it, yeah.
Chad Sowash: Oh God, yeah.
Julie Calli: I'm glad that Goodwill is raising awareness for what they do because a lot of people think, "Oh yeah, you drop off your clothes and stuff, and then they sell it there, and then maybe that money goes to charity and that's great." Right? But it does a lot more than that. So, I love that they're raising awareness for that, that they are creating a lot of career pathing opportunity for people that are in need of those services. So, I think that that's fantastic that they're raising that awareness to that. But I think it's sad that they have to because Goodwill actually has a lot of competition now. You've got the Salvation Army, you've got Savers, you've got...
Joel Cheesman: The internet.
Julie Calli: Yeah, the internet, right? So, there's a lot of ways that people can donate their goods now. I think that it's great for them to allow people to understand that by donating there, by shopping there, that you're really making an impact on helping people be enabled to get back to work in many cases.
Chad Sowash: Yeah. Well, and they also have individuals with disabilities that have been working throughout Goodwill for decades, right? So yeah, being able to impact different communities to be able to... Literally, Goodwills are in communities far and wide throughout the United States. That to me is... It's more than impactful for the individual. It is impactful for the entire community. And that's the thing that we've lost in the United States a lot. Again, we've aligned behind rugged individualism and do things for yourself, and we forgot about community. And then what happens are that these individuals who are less fortunate in many cases, physically, monetarily, it doesn't matter, they get lost, they get lost and they have been getting lost for decades. And you have to have an organization like Goodwill to be able to demonstrate, "Hey, look, a community exists." People are getting lost.
Chad Sowash: Now, what we need to do as Americans, what we need to do as humans is we need to focus on these types of initiatives. And we need to remember that we are a part of a community. This isn't just about me, me, me, right? All these other individuals only get one life as well. Take a look at how they're living and would you ever wanna live like that if the roles were reversed? Kinda like 48 hours kinda thing. No, trading places. That was it. But at the end of the day, Goodwill is amazing. Do I think that their CEOs... 'Cause every single one of these locations or these regions have a CEO that gets paid about half a million dollars apiece.
Julie Calli: What? Oh no.