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Best of 2021... Joel's Picks


The year that was 2021 didn't turn out exactly as expected. Business travel didn't come back, the Delta variant threw a big monkey wrench in the party that should've been and we'll have to push pause on another Roaring '20s. The industry, however, kept us talking. We were busier than ever, and these are five episodes that really stood out in a year of standouts. This Best of has it all: Indeed, CareerBuilder, feisty recruiters, dumb employers and, of course, the ZipRecruiter IPO. Here's to a great year with an eye toward 2022. Enjoy!


PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

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INTRO (21m 28s):

`Yes sir! Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast. irls.


Chad (32s):

Welcome to the Chad and Cheese, top five picks of 2021. Joel's picks. That's right. Joel, cut his nap short today to curate this show just for you. Take it away Cheeseman.


Joel (45s):

One of the things I look forward to every year is the Superbowl. Yeah, I enjoy the game and I'm sure this is the Brown's year, but I also enjoy the commercials and I really enjoy the commercials when they include companies in our industry. While the days of CareerBuilder and Monster dropping major coin on ads is over Indeed and Fiverr took the plunge in 2021. And this was our hot take on the move. Enjoy. I don't know what that means. Let's get to the news shall we?


Chad (1m 20s):

Topics!


Joel (1m 21s):

Chad, you remember 1999, don't you and the first Superbowl ad?


Chad (1m 25s):

Yeah!


Joel (1m 26s):

You remember it very well and you've, I think you've told the history lesson pretty, pretty well in the past, but Indeed has decided they're going to get into the arms race. So they've announced the first half of the big game, they're doing a 30 second ad, reportedly at a cost of roughly $5.6 million. There'll be utilizing the hashtag #nowhiring in coordination with the ad, which means every job board in staffing agency in the world is going to be trolling the hashtag #nowhiring up until the game, going for the warm and fuzzy. Actually it's a 60 second spot. Forgive me so they're going to drop roughly 10 plus million on this thing.


Chad (2m 6s):

Have you seen it?


Joel (2m 7s):

I have not seen it. It's warm and fuzzy, right?


Chad (2m 10s):

Yeah. I've seen it. And it depicts everyday people overall. The big theme behind it is, it's called "The Rising," but the song Rise Up is behind it, it's playing in the music bed. It's very well done. It tugs at the heart strings and the product is woven into the story itself. This is really a super flex against the rest of the industry. Hindsight being 2020. Why do this?


Joel (2m 36s):

So I wrote a post on this over at Poach and historically speaking, and you and I are old enough to have sort of this context to the issue. You know, there was a day in '99 when all this happened, you know, before YouTube, before social media, before really Google was a thing, where the mindset was really, you have to be Coke or Pepsi, or you're just going to be feeding on the crumbs of whatever industry that you're in and a way to become number one or two was well drop a bunch of money on the Superbowl and Monster had this vision of being sort of this monolithic brand that was every job was posted there, right? And they could increase prices accordingly and you know, be the 800 pound gorilla.


Joel (3m 16s):

Hot jobs advertised sort of for a different reason. Now they definitely shot themselves up into the top echelon of job sites, but then they sold off to Yahoo a couple of years later. So I think they sort of achieve what they wanted to do. Whereas Monster had a little bit of a longer horizon. And for the, you know, next up until about 2008 or nine, I'd say we talked about CareerBuilder and Monster ads on the Super Bowl almost every year. And it was part of that same sort of mentality. Well, the 2008 happened 2009, there've been very few Super Bowl ads since the great recession, probably for good reason, the world has changed.


Joel (3m 57s):

There's a lot more fragmentation. There's Google, there's Facebook, there's LinkedIn. So it's really hard to sort of justify an investment like that because it's not just the ad itself. It's the making of the ad. It's the followup stuff. It's the branding and things you do after that. So I, I feel like whereas 1999 was more of a, Hey, we want to make a big splash to be number one today. It's more like we want to make a big splash to keep hold of number one for as long as we possibly can, because we kind of feel like the ice is melting under our feet. And we want to get a life raft if we can possibly do it. So to me, it's much more of like a desperation or a clinging to power than it is a new kid on the block.


Joel (4m 39s):

And we want to be the big swinging dick. Your thoughts?


Chad (4m 44s):

One thing this does is it provides, it's a job seeker specific commercial, right? The call to action, everything that's happening around it is for job seekers. Indeed has bigger problems than traffic. So this commercial in itself is very well done and on point, but unfortunately we're when hearing from employers using Indeed, they are already providing enough traffic. It's just overwhelmingly the wrong candidate. So Indeed needs to bolster its matching tech and much less ZipRecruiter deliver better match candidates. I mean, companies don't need more, they need more targeted.


Chad (5m 27s):

So much like Monster, Hot Jobs and CareerBuilder. It looks like Indeed doesn't really understand what the real problem is for customers. And it could be their downfall. I remember when we looked at CareerBuilder and we looked at Monster and we thought, God, these guys are going to stay on top forever. They didn't. Is this predicting the demise of Indeed in 2021? No, it's not. But the crumbling starts when you can't understand what the real problem is. When you spend money on something like this, which really defeats the whole purpose of why an employer's using you in the first place. It's not for quantity. It's for quality. It's for matching, it's for the right types of individuals.


Chad (6m 9s):

And what we've seen with Indeed is they have no discipline. The Indeed of old had discipline. They had focus, they had strategy. They were the Trojan horse strategy and they've lost all of it.


Joel (6m 21s):

Yeah, to me, it smells a little bit like jumping the shark. It fits smells a little bit like a peak. I feel similarly about Indeed today, as I did about Monster in 2006 or 2007. Obviously it took 10 plus years for sort of that demise to happen or that downfall to happen. But to me, this sort of reeks of desperation and also a good level of hubris. They have a new CEO, I think, with the organization, so maybe a little bit of him making his mark, could be part of this, but yeah, I, I can't find many good things about this move.


Joel (7m 1s):

Good stuff. By the way, the Superbowl isn't that far away and a hot economy means there should be more ads from companies in the employment space. The big question is, will we see some of the unicorns from the past year on the big game? Or how about ZipRecruiter who's now a public company? Hell maybe even a background check solution will show up to the party, stay tuned. It's commercial time.


Chad (7m 33s):

It's show time.


Joel (7m 36s):

TikTok was super hot last year and made it into our show more times than I can count. However, one story and interview really stood out. Meet Tony Piloseno, know a then senior at Ohio University who was working part-time at a local Sherwin-Williams paint store and mixing paint for his TikTok followers, which then numbered 1.2 million Did Sherwin-Williams, fast track Tony to their executive farm system as a result. No, they fired him.


Joel (8m 14s):

Crazy Right? This is Tony's story. Enjoy.


Chad (8m 25s):

Oh yeah, we got paint boy on the show today.


Chad (9m 36s):

What's up everybody. This is Joel Cheesman of the Chad and Cheese podcast always joined by my Tonto, Chad Sowash.


Joel (11m 56s):

Proudly. Chad, how are you, man?


Joel (12m 38s):

We got a follow up to one of our weekly stories.


Joel (13m 56s):

I can't wait to get into this one now.


Chad (14m 59s):

He's he's paint, dude. He's not paint boy, because he's in college.


Chad (16m 23s):

He's a senior.


Joel (16m 44s):

He's a content creator.


Chad (17m 12s):

Here's a little bit of an intro from Buzzfeed.


Chad (18m 16s):

Okay. So an Ohio University, senior who worked a part-time job at a local Sherwin-Williams store was fired after the company discovered he was mixing paint on a Tik Tok channel where it's At @tonesterpaints, which currently has 1.5 million followers.


Chad (21m 26s):

So that's, that's kind of like the backstory. We talked about that on the weekly show. Let's go ahead and bring it's Tony Piloseno.


Joel (21m 26s):

Tony, how you doing bud? Hello, Tony Piloseno.


Tony (21m 28s):

I'm in Ohio. Where are you guys?


Joel (21m 28s):

Are you in Ohio network?


Tony (21m 28s):

Yeah, I'm going to Athens, Ohio right now. I'm still at school for the next couple of weeks.


Joel (21m 28s):

Beautiful, beautiful school, big, big party school.


Tony (21m 28s):

Yes sir!


Joel (21m 29s):

It's home of Roger Ales, which is always nice to talk about.


Chad (21m 30s):

Known for its painting apparently. So, so Tony give us some, give us some, some backstory on this. I mean, we, we hear what's, you know, the Buzzfeed story, so on and so forth, you go in to work and then somebody gives you a call and you're like, what the fuck's going on here?


Joel (21m 31s):

Were you always a painter dude or was Sherwin-Williams like just, it was a job.


Tony (21m 31s):

Well, yeah, I mean, when I first started at Sherman Williams, about three years ago, I didn't know shit about paint. I and I fell in love with the job immediately, man. I mean, I love the industry. Loved helping people with their projects, picking out colors, the process. It was all good. My whole career path was going to lead down through Sherman Williams corporate chain doing all that. But last year, last December, I had downloaded TikTok and I saw that other people at paint stores were doing these paint videos, just the process of a mixing gallon paint. And it fell into like the oddly satisfying category.


Joel (21m 31s):

So was this like, Oh, I don't know. Lowes, paint. Yeah. TikTok account versus.


Tony (21m 31s):

Oh no, no. They were just some part-time workers too making the videos at the store.


Joel (21m 31s):

OK, so same thing.


Tony (21m 31s):

Right.


Joel (21m 31s):

Okay.


Tony (21m 31s):

So, you know, the videos took off almost immediately. I think my sixth video got like a million views.


Joel (21m 32s):

Christ.


Tony (21m 32s):

So what I, what I tried doing was I wanted to basically change the digital marketing game for the paint industry and just make interesting content to younger people. And SW didn't really like that. And they canned me for it.


Chad (21m 32s):

Get a little deeper into this, this wasn't like your manager saying, Hey, you're screwing around on company time. This isn't good for us, blah, blah, blah. This was somebody from loss prevention. I mean some, some suit who had no fucking clue, probably what Tik Tok even is today. Well, he probably does today, but probably didn't even know what Tik Tok was. They were saying that you were a harming the brand.


Tony (21m 32s):

Well, yeah, dude. I mean, I had made a presentation to show to marketing I showed it to my manager and sales rep. Damn. Yeah. I mean, it was legit. I showed it to all my marketing professors here at OU and they said, move forward with this, get it to marketing. And I tried and basically got blown off for it. They didn't even look at the presentation. So I just kept making videos. And then apparently someone had called customer service up in Cleveland at their headquarters and said, was complaining that I was mixing...


Chad (21m 32s):

Was it the blueberry? Did the blueberry get you in trouble?


Tony (21m 32s):

It was the blueberry video.


Joel (21m 32s):

Wow. So talk about the blueberry video.


Tony (21m 32s):

Well, what I wanted to do is, I did a bunch of research on like the history of paint and they used, they used to use like natural, they call them natural pigments, as like dyes for the paint, like berries, roots. So I figured, it'd be cool for a video. So I bought, I was buying my own paint for those kinds of videos and thought it would be a cool concept to make a video for. And that video took off that one, got like 20 million views. That's how Sherwin-Williams found out about it.


Chad (21m 32s):

They weren't excited about this, that they were, that their brand was actually getting out and seen by 20 million different viewers.


Tony (21m 32s):

No.


Joel (21m 32s):

Yeah. How was the brand represented? Were you always wearing a Sherwin-Williams shirt? Hat? Was the paint always there? Did you always mention like, Hey, the new paint from Sherwin Williams da da da?


Tony (21m 32s):

Before, I made that presentation, I was literally trying to promote Sherman Williams, like, Hey, come into the store and get these school colors. But then once the marketing thing didn't work out with trying to show off that presentation, I just took away the label completely. And then yeah, they, they still found out about it because I didn't want to be doing videos like that, that wasn't really approved of without what their brand and you know.


Joel (21m 32s):

Yeah. Yeah.


Chad (21m 32s):

It's interesting because first and foremost brands are always trying to look at new, new mediums. Right. They're looking at, they're trying to, they're trying to actually get out into new mediums.


Joel (21m 32s):

Especially consumer companies.


Chad (21m 32s):

They're trying to gain traction and, and you had a just add water solution. Cause you already had this, this user base who wanted to see this. And Sherwin Williams, I mean, hell they could have easily just grabbed this up. I mean really just taking it from you to be quite Frank, but no, they kicked you out the door. How did that tell me how that felt, man, because I mean, you were really, you're passionate about what you're doing. How did that feel?


Joel (21m 32s):

You got to think you're on the fast track to like corporate job in Cleveland, which, who doesn't want that. But I mean, the minute you got a million views and had a million followers, you were like, dude, I'm set. I'm going to be corporate Sherwin Williams for the next 20 years if I want it.


Tony (21m 32s):

Well, dude, I mean my whole career path was going to go through Sherwin Williams, go. I had an internship lined up, was going to go into management sales. I literally loved the job. It almost felt like I got like betrayed.


Chad (21m 32s):

You did.


Tony (21m 32s):

By the company. I did a lot for them, I worked there for a very long time. And then I have some dude in, I like to call them the "paint police" - loss prevention. He basically interrogated me, wanted to know if I was stealing, which I wasn't. They found out that I wasn't, but then they pulled some BS, excuse. Like I was like, what was it? Serious embarrassment to the company. And yeah, it sucked. But honestly I think it's almost like a blessing in disguise at this point. Like you said, they probably wouldn't take taken that from me.


Chad (21m 33s):

Yeah. Let's talk about the blessing. Because as soon as this hit, not who, who, first and foremost who picked it up? And then after it was picked up, it seemed like it just like exploded. Tell me about that, because this does seem like almost like a blessing in disguise.


Tony (21m 33s):

If they were to take, if they would've went with that TikTok or my presentation now, after all this had happened, they would have made it into some corporate, I don't even know bit saturated with corporate.


Chad (21m 33s):

They would have fucked it up. Yeah. There's there's there's when it comes to social media and these platforms, you have to have authenticity to it and they would have completely screwed that up. So yeah.


Joel (21m 33s):

And they still don't have an account right on TikTok?


Tony (21m 33s):

I don't think so. I don't think they're going to now.


Chad (21m 33s):

You had, you had this broke and you had a bunch of big brands actually get in touch with you. Tell us, tell us about that. And you found a home, tell us who you picked and why you picked them.


Joel (21m 33s):

Yeah. And what was the TicTok reaction were a million people like, fuck Sherwin Williams?


Tony (21m 33s):

Oh dude. It was insane. I made that the initial video that blew up and got a whole, the media got ahold of was the story about how I had gotten fired. That video really took off and people were like bashing Sherwin Williams about it. My goal, I don't know if you guys had seen that initial video, but my goal wasn't even to bash Sherwin Williams and be like, Hey, like screw you guys. It was to basically develop like an emotional connection with my audience.


Chad (21m 33s):

Yeah.


Tony (21m 33s):

Basically give them a reason why I do what I do.


Chad (21m 33s):

Yeah.


Tony (21m 33s):

And people put two and two together, found out it was Sherwin Williams and took it from there and they got grilled on the internet.


Chad (21m 33s):

Oh, yeah. So tell us, tell us about those big brands that came to to you and why you and where you went and why picked it?


Tony (21m 33s):

So I, after that video broke out, I got basically partnership offers and deals from basically every major paint company in the United States, like Behr, PBG, Benny Moore, a few smaller ones. And I went with a company called Florida Paints down there in Orlando.


Joel (21m 33s):

They didn't want to hire you necessarily, but they wanted to sponsor?


Tony (21m 33s):

Right sponsor the videos.


Joel (21m 33s):

Okay. So nobody said, come work for us. It was like, Hey, let's partner. I'll pay for you to post videos and promote our paints.


Tony (21m 33s):

Well they did, they did offer like mainly year contracts. And after I had graduated, I would graduate they would offer me a job. But man, I wanted to steer away after that whole thing was Sherwin Williams from the big corporate culture.


Joel (21m 33s):

I don't blame you.


Tony (21m 33s):

Hey, those big companies, man, there's too much of a chain of command. There's too many people you got to filter through it.


Joel (21m 33s):

Too many lawyers.


Tony (21m 33s):

Exactly. And so I went with the company, Florida Paints in Orlando. I met with the founder, Don Strubey and he it's a smaller company. They only have a, I think about 25 to 30 stores down in Florida. And Don had called me and he was the only one only person that I talked to through all these companies that I felt connection, like a shared passion for the importance of paint and the art of it. And that was something that really, I felt like connected with me. And I've wanted to work with them ever since that.


Chad (21m 33s):

He got you. Is what it was.


Tony (21m 33s):

Yeah. Right.


Chad (21m 33s):

You know, this is definitely a message to all of those brands that are out there that we talk to all the time. This wasn't just a consumer play, from the standpoint of Sherwin Williams. This was a guy who wanted to spend his life, give 40 hours a week, plus blood, sweat, and tears over time, all this stuff because he had a passion for what he was doing and they just threw all that shit in a can. And now a company, Florida Paints, I definitely want to give those guys some love. They understood they weren't corporate. They weren't buttoned up in bullshit about this. They understood that you were actually just demonstrating passion in who you were and that's what they wanted in their culture. And that's why you pick them.


Tony (21m 33s):

Exactly. That is exactly what happened.


Joel (21m 33s):

It's commercial time!


Chad (21m 33s):

It's showtime!


Joel (21m 33s):

Steer your content at all. How has your content changed if at all?


Tony (21m 33s):

Well, when I go to, I'm going to be moving down there within the next few weeks, but it's basically going to be tones of paints powered by Florida Paints. They're going to give me all the supplies and resources. I need to express my creativity through my content.


Joel (21m 33s):

Gotcha.


Chad (21m 33s):

What's the position title? I mean, what are you actually going to be doing for them above and beyond TikTok? Or is it just that?


Tony (21m 33s):

Well, I'm going to be working like a, almost like a sales associate job, like I was before in the store. But along with that, I'm going to be doing digital marketing. Basically creating content.


Joel (21m 33s):

Gotcha, awesome. Gotcha. I have to, I have to note Tony, I want to back up a little bit. We have hundreds of companies that would love to blow up like you did on social media. So one of my questions is like, what tips would you give a corporation? You mentioned authenticity, which I think is important, but what are some tips you would give a company to sort of blow up like you did? Cause a million is no is no joke. That's legitimate blown up on social media.


Tony (21m 33s):

Well, you know, I have always followed three rules of social media after doing research, learning just the platforms and all that. And it really all kind of comes together, no matter which platform you use, my three rules are consistency, you have to post about every day. Quality of content, you got to make sure it's stuff people want to see. And then the third one, is engaging with your followers, making it feel like, they belong there and like they're a part of the page.


Joel (21m 33s):

Gotcha.


Chad (21m 33s):

Well, and you mentioned connection though, too, because you said that you wanted to make a connection with your user. So it was the content, but you felt it was really important to make a connection, a human connection as well.


Tony (21m 33s):

Exactly, exactly. I mean, I hadn't really done that before either. I had basically just been making paint videos and I just, like I said, I wanted to give my audience a reason why I do what I do. I'm not just mixing paint in some basement for no reason.


Joel (21m 33s):

No, I'm curious as a, because you're a young person, we don't get young people on the show that often, break down for me, TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram, and then, you know, like Facebook and Twitter, like where do you spend most of your time? Where do you see most of your peers spend time? Which ones are sort of like way passe and we're over that. And are there any platforms that we should be looking at in the future to take off like TikTok has?


Tony (21m 33s):

I mean, dude TikTok I think is, is really in the past year, changed the game completely. It's almost turning into like a, I don't know if you remember Instagram, that kind of, it's almost like I'll TikTok is now. There's not really any like business to or anything, but on Instagram and stuff, now you can shop, you can, it's basically a search engine. Now, Instagram, you can look up anything on there.


Joel (21m 33s):

Predict you there'll be a day where there'll be a Sherwin-Williams ad come before or after your TikTok on paints. So yes. Are you Snapchatting, like Instagram is still hot, right? Like what's the temperature and all these sites.


Tony (21m 33s):

I've been sticking to YouTube, Instagram and Tik TOK. I haven't really gotten into Snapchat yet. Maybe Twitter I would get into, but I mean, man, it's, it's a full-time job trying to manage and upload content to all these, all these platforms, but TikTok, Instagram and YouTube, or like the video platforms, which I try to stay, stay with the most.


Joel (21m 33s):

And where do you sort