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Euro IPO Alert

Maybe you've heard, Europe has some stuff it's dealing with at the moment. But the show must go on! This week, the boys are joined by head of talent and author Jan Tegze to tackle a slew of acquisitions by House of HR, a perspective IPO from Jobandtalent and - someone alert HR! - groping in the metaverse. We also highlight some recent startups that enjoyed an influx of cash recently, as well as give our 2 cents on the state of war in Ukraine.

INTRO (5s):

Some podcasts, do it for the fun. Some do it for the fame, Chad and Cheese they do it for global effin domination. That's why bringing America to its knees was just the beginning. Now they have their eyes set on conquering Europe and they've drafted industry veteran Lieven Van Nieuwenhuyze of Belgium to help them navigate the old country and bring HR's most dangerous podcast across the pond to trash-talk like never before. Not safe for work in any language. The Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe.

Joel (39s):

Oh yeah. Europe's been pretty quiet lately. So I'm not quite sure what to say in the intro this week. What's up freedom fighters? You are listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe. I'm your cohost Joel "do Molotov cocktails come with whiskey" Cheeseman.

Chad (55s):

And this is Chad "send more Javelin" Sowash.

Lieven (59s):

And I'm Lieven "Putin you'll never make it to the show again" Van Nieuwenhuyze.

Joel (1m 4s):

On this episode, the house of HR rolls out the welcome mat, Job And Talent eyes Wall Street or whatever the European equivalent might be and groping in the metaverse, someone call HR. Let's do this.

sfx (1m 19s):

Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

Chad (1m 21s):

Mystery guest!

Joel (1m 22s):

We've got a mystery guest guys, very excited. Let's welcome Jan Tegze director of Talent Acquisition from the Czech Republic. Jan what else should our listeners know? You're kind of a secret guy.

Jan (1m 37s):

Hi everyone. Oh, I hope I'm not that secret.

Joel (1m 40s):

Not after this show.

Jan (1m 41s):

I hope so. So a few things about me. So I wrote the book Full-Stack Recruiter several years, I believe like five or six years so far. I'm trying to create a game for recruiters so you can find them on their sourcing build games.

Joel (1m 58s):

Is this like a card game, Jenga? What are we talking about?

Jan (2m 2s):

Oh my God. I wish so. It's more like scavenger hunt. So you, you have a sourcing question when you solve it there is another level and you've got for every game has around like 6,7 levels. You need to go at the end and there are like 30 plus games. So, but I will definitely try to create some next time.

Chad (2m 28s):

So what year did you write full-stack recruiter?

Jan (2m 33s):

Last, the full version will publish in 2020. I believe so. Yeah. Two years ago, but the first book full-stack recruiter the first version was published, I believe in 2015.

Joel (2m 45s):


Chad (2m 46s):

Wow. Well, that's a huge difference when we're talking about tech stacks from 2015 to today. So I would assume correct me if I'm wrong. The book has to be majorly different in this version than it was the 2015 version.

Jan (3m 0s):

Well, it is different than it's got, like the first version has 415 pages. This one has 765, plus the extra content and I can stuff way more content there. So yeah, it's evolving car field quite quickly. Yeah. And I'm still a slow typer.

Joel (3m 21s):

Listeners should be excited. We have a director of TA we have an author and an entrepreneur making games, very exciting.

Chad (3m 30s):

Making games.

Joel (3m 30s):

Making money.

Chad (3m 31s):

Excellent. Shout outs.

Joel (3m 32s):

Yeah. Do you want to talk about Europe?

Chad (3m 34s):

Oh yeah, we're going to do some Europe shout-outs because Jesus, as we've spoken to Europeans over the last few weeks or so just about every one of them shrugged off this buildup by Russia. And it was more like, Hey, you know, Russia always plays these games. And I wonder if that was just a pretty much Jedi mind trick from Putin. You know, he was always on the Ukrainian border and he was always playing these games. But the next thing you know, he's not playing games anymore. I mean, they're going full tilt.

Joel (4m 5s):

Yeah. As Americans having two Europeans on the show, I'd love your guys' perspective on what's going on. Is there fear? Is there inspiration from what NATO is doing? What's the world look like from your viewpoint?

Lieven (4m 18s):

People are really angry. And this is the first time that Europe actually is more than a bunch of countries. Suddenly Putin realized the only thing he didn't want to realize making Europe one block. And for the first time in history, according to me, all those countries are working together against one enemy and it's heartwarming to see the reactions of all those people. It's great. But of course, for the people in Ukraine, yeah it's terrible. But the reactions from Europe is great and I think we'll get out better of this.

Chad (4m 53s):

When you see Sweden sending military in some gear. I mean that's saying something.

Joel (4m 58s):

Eventually helmets.

Chad (4m 59s):

And it doesn't matter when they send anything. Yeah.

Joel (5m 1s):

And send Tengai, the recruiting robot, that'll scare the shit out of the Russians. So Jan what do you think about the invasion?

Jan (5m 10s):

Well, first of all, its a tragedy because the country was attacked unprovoked. I know that there are different opinions on that, but I hope that this will end soon. And, you know, as Lieven mentioned, Putin basically helped to unite European Union and as we do not like bullies, I hope we will, you know, take more actions and help Ukrainian people. So.

Joel (5m 36s):

I agree with Lieven on the heartwarming thing. I think it's really inspirational, obviously a tragedy with war, but I've been really inspired by what I thought was a fragmented world coming out of COVID obviously the Trump years were pretty anti NATO years and to see the world, the free world, if you will join forces and take on Russia is really inspiring to me as well.

Chad (5m 58s):

And my shout out, my first shout out goes to the Javelin anti-tank missile. We need to get as many of these fuckers into Ukrainian hands as we possibly can. And I also saw, I think it was Turkish drones who was equipped with like some sort of some version of like a hellfire missile that was just blowing the shit out of the T80s as well. You start blowing those fucking T80 tanks away like that. They're they're going to fucking cut and run because they have to.

Joel (6m 26s):

And by the way, I know these, these guys can use it because if you look at any Ukraine fighter, they looked like they'd been fighting for 20 years. They're all like smoking cigarettes and coffee for breakfast. They look like they, I mean, they just looked like they'd been through the battle. So I have a lot of confidence in them.

Lieven (6m 44s):

They have been since 2014, they have been constantly in battle. So those people are rough.

Joel (6m 52s):

They're not manicured like the Belgians are they? Well, I'll go out a little less exciting, but there is still business to discuss in what's going on in Europe. So we have three startups recently that received money. I want to highlight some of those. So first up we have London based Sova Assessment. They closed a $9 million funding round recently bringing their total to just shy of $13 million. Founded in 2015, the company provides mobile friendly assessments. They service 120 organizations in over 20 countries. Next up we have Dutch based Equalture they raised two point 75 million euros for a total of 3.8 million euros.

Joel (7m 33s):

They help companies make unbiased hiring decisions. Founded in 2018 by sisters, two sisters, actually, with this funding funding Equalture plans to further grow its international customer base and expand its test library of game-based neuro assessments. Jan, you might be interested in them. And lastly, we have Munich based employee enablement platform, Zavvy they've raised $4 million in seed funding. Launched just last year the company intends to use the funds to invest in product development and not, no word of coming to America. So good for all of those companies. We've got two assessments.

Chad (8m 13s):


Joel (8m 13s):

And one, I guess, onboarding company representing a myriad of countries in Europe. Shout out to those, those organizations. Lieven, you got a shout out or two?

Lieven (8m 23s):

Yeah, two actually. These are special times we need special shout outs. So the first one goes to President Zelenskyy for just being a one awesome president.

Chad (8m 31s):


Lieven (8m 32s):

I think he is what Putin always pretended to be. He's is one hell of a bad-ass and I think that Time's person of the year 2022 is known already. And I really hope the people of Ukrainia that they can hang on there until everything settles down. And the second shout out is something just breaking news I got to my mailbox, you know, Doha, the chatbots we had on the show recently? They launched a chatbot app to help refugees from Ukrainia to get the needed help, and to get in touch with organizations who want to help. Nice. And this is something I really like about this last days, Romania, the rise of a Romanian company.

Lieven (9m 12s):

There are really, yeah, that's been living under the Soviet Union before, so they are really in touch with everything and all those people are now sticking together and helping out to people in Ukrainia. And it's nice to see. I love it.

Chad (9m 26s):

And we were talking about prior to, to actually recording how everybody's just more connected now. I mean, there's the transparency that's out there when you know, President Zelenskyy gets on and you know, he's sharing shorts via social media on, you know, being in the streets, being with fighters. We're here. We're not running. We don't need a ride. We need bullets. Right. You know, we need ammo. I mean, this to me, this is what pulls it all together. And I believe Putin thought that he had it all pretty much taken care of because he could shut them down. Quote, unquote, "shut them down" from a social media standpoint.

Chad (10m 6s):

But that hasn't been allotted. Not to mention, I think your, your hero Elon Musk, might've had a little to do with this.

Lieven (10m 16s):

Yep. Starlink indeed. Zelenskyy asked on Twitter Elon instead of sending people to Mars country, you expand your Starlink network to Ukraine. And a few minutes later, Elon Musk replied on that once again, Elon my hero.

Joel (10m 30s):

So for those who don't know, Lieven Starlink is?

Lieven (10m 35s):

Starlink is a satellite network Elon Musk launched to provide basically internet all over the world without having to have a real connection. So it's a safe connection for the people in Ukraine without Russian being able to intervene. So it's a good thing.

Joel (10m 50s):

Good stuff. Well, Chad, you and I get to see firsthand all this heartwarming patriotism and NATO love when we get to go to Europe.

Chad (10m 58s):


Joel (10m 53s):

This summer. So we got a couple of trips to talk about.

Chad (10m 58s):

In May!

Joel (10m 58s):

So May 6th, we have, I dunno, Lieven's got a little get together that day. Lieven you want to tell the audience about that?

Lieven (11m 12s):

May 6th is the best E-recruitment conference in the world, Ostend, Belgium. And I'll be glad to see y'all again in real life. It will be fun.

Joel (11m 20s):

The Americans are coming.

Lieven (11m 22s):

The Americans are coming indeed once again.

Joel (11m 24s):

There we go at the UK the week after the 4th of July holiday in the US so we have RecFest, which is awesome. If you guys are in the UK, we're going to, Knebworth, commonly known as the Woodstock of England. I guess we'll be there for RecFest. I know a lot of sponsors, friends of the show, contacts and people that we know and love will be there. So that's very, very exciting.

Chad (11m 47s):

It's going to be a blast kid. That's going to be a blast. One last shout out. You've got to hear this. It seems as if a Belgium is the new France in Europe, as they, they fully embrace the prospect of a four-day work week, straight out of the Washington post on this one, kids. "Belgium has announced it will allow workers to request permission to compress their work hours into four days," pretty soon Lieven will be taking two hour lunches and smoking. I have six smoke breaks a day.

Lieven (12m 29s):

Wait, why only two hour lunches? Used to have more!

Chad (12m 33s):


Joel (12m 33s):

Speaking of Lieven having four day work weeks, his company leads off our news for this episode. So House of HR is taking the next step in its growth process with two acquisitions. First is the acquisition of SOLCOM the company headquartered in Germany as a leading IT service provider. They recruit experts in IT and engineering to accompany clients through projects. House of HR, CEO, Rika Coppens center released quote, "finding successful companies for sale in IT is not easy. It has been a part of our wishlist for a long time." But that wasn't enough they had another acquisition house of HR has also gobbled up Dutch company TMI one of the largest HR service providers for the healthcare sector in the Netherlands.

Joel (13m 20s):

TMI, which by the way, does not stand for too much information is responsible for the recruitment of profiles for hospitals, public care institutions, ambulance staff, and nursing homes. The profiles they work with include doctors, nursing, staff, psychologists, and pharmacists. The bank is open for business at the House of HR. Lieven this one's your lane, give us the skinny on these two acquisitions.

Lieven (13m 47s):

Yeah. Okay. TMI. Maybe it does stand for too much information because I had a meeting with the employees last week and basically a meeting because the meeting, but we had a fancy dinner in Amsterdam, I was surrounded by great people, mostly women. And I must say, they are Dutch and are very open-minded. I'm not going to share the topics because probably it isn't appropriate.

Chad (14m 13s):

That you're talking about in the metaverse I'm sure.

Lieven (14m 17s):

Great. And it's something the metaverse has developed a bubble for. You know, really nice people, but indeed it's a very interesting acquisition because healthcare, you can't go wrong with healthcare these days. And they have a group of about 4,000 professionals, healthcare professionals, and this is something you just can't copy easily. This is not a company you can launch overnight. They've been working on that for a very long time. Those people are very loyal and they placed them. It's search and selection and they place them at our clients. So it's a great company. Revenue of about 100 million growing fast.

Lieven (14m 58s):

We're going to help them to grow all over Europe now.

Chad (15m 1s):

When it comes to actually taking TMI, are you looking to try to expand outside of what I'm hearing is outside of the Netherlands? Have they've just been specifically in the Netherlands before. Yeah.

Lieven (15m 14s):

Okay. The Netherlands and also the Caribbean, which is actually quite fun, you know, I'm sure you have St. Martin and a few other islands in the Caribbean, which are still part of Netherlands.

Chad (15m 25s):

I feel a market trip coming on.

Lieven (15m 26s):

Yeah. He also said it we need to check it out. Of course we do.

Joel (15m 33s):

So when you get a bunch of healthcare people in Amsterdam for dinner, does the medicinal marijuana come out to play or not so much?

Lieven (15m 43s):

Not before dessert.

Joel (15m 44s):

Are you going to stay in Europe or do you have aspirations for either of these companies to come to America?

Lieven (15m 50s):

No, for now we're going to stay in Europe, still a bunch of countries in Europe in which we're not active so we're working on that, but never say never of course.

Jan (16m 2s):

Like the Czech Republic. Are you planning to go here?

Lieven (16m 5s):

Probably someday. You already are hiring people from Eastern Europe, but mostly to get them to work in the Western part. But we have offices in the Baltic states and Poland and Romania, not in the Czech Republic, I think, but we definitely could.

Joel (16m 23s):

Lieven where the terms of this deal published or not?

Lieven (16m 27s):

I've seen them.

Joel (16m 27s):

So just between us girls, can you tell us what the terms were? Probably not.

Lieven (16m 32s):

But not real terms, but something important and I was maybe and current CEO who was also the founder is going to stay on board and another guy probably is rich by now, but he will reinvest a big part of its into House of HR. And that's something we always try to do, that the founders and the CEOs are reinvesting and on group level. So they're helping each other out. We are a multibrand company. We have 45 brands now and all those are, most of the CEOs are still on boards and they are investing in the all of House of HR. So even though in some cases they can be competitors in some countries, they still are in need of helping each other because they are part of the same company.

Lieven (17m 17s):

It's not just multibrand it's multi brand, but with one big shareholders structure.

Chad (17m 21s):

Are they both pure play staffing organizations?

Lieven (17m 25s):

Yeah, I guess so a good call. It's pure stuffing. It's a <inaudible> on <inaudible> search and selection. So it's staffing.

Chad (17m 32s):

SOLCOM seems to have like a freelancer platform as well. Are you guys, is that something, one of the reasons why you guys actually targeted them because of the technology and being able to attract the IT side of the house? What was really the big push for SOLCOM?

Lieven (17m 49s):

Well, we really are into a digital land that's for sure. And that's one of the reasons TMI has chosen us because other people were interested as well, but TMI wanted our digital approach and we are known for our digital approach. And Solcom of course is an IT company so from them you can expect to have a more digital approach than TMI has. But our, I was really surprised by TMI because they are, for example, they are hiring nurses on LinkedIn, which is normal, of course, but they are very advanced on LinkedIn automation tools, which isn't really standard. So I was happily surprised when I was talking to my new colleagues last week during dinner. And I don't know, I thought I was going to have to show them a lot because we always share best practices, but they actually are pretty advanced and Solcom of course has a different story.

Lieven (18m 42s):

They have a revenue of 172 million. They're still growing rapidly and they are focused on engineering IT so you can expect a digital matureness from them.

Joel (18m 54s):

Well, we know LinkedIn loves good automation tools.

Lieven (18m 58s):

LinkedIn loves us to, and I do hope they're going to sponsor my Congress. Otherwise I'll make LinkedIn automation tools a topic at the conference.

Joel (19m 5s):

Always be closing baby. So House of HR seems like a house of brands. When you guys acquire a company, do they typically keep their brand name? Do they keep the team there or do you sort of integrate them into House of HR companies? And also, I know you guys are still on a buying spree. What other types of companies are you looking to add to the portfolio going forward?

Lieven (19m 27s):

We are definitely a multibrand company, because when we buy a company, we buy it because they are better performing than the others. We buy the best possible companies and then it would just make no sense at all to force them to be something they are not. So whenever we buy a company, we let them be. But we're going to try to help them to grow faster than they could alone. And we can help them by integrating them in our corporate structure, with the digital assets and financial assets, we give them money to grow faster. We can leverage them. We can help them grow on a European scale, et cetera. But basically we are never going to force a company into a corporate structure to keep their colors, they keep their logos, their spirits, but we also take care that their spirit is matching ours.

Lieven (20m 16s):

You guys always talking about the happy rebels. HR stands for happy rebels. We have been rejecting companies. We have been looking at the companies which looked great on paper, but just didn't have the entrepreneurial spirits that we are looking for.

Jan (20m 30s):

I'm just curious about when you mentioned that you are implementing those companies or providing some support and then technology pieces and everything around that. Are you also, do you have like your company ATS, that every company that you implement into your structure is using, or you let them to keep their technology or their ideas?

Lieven (20m 50s):

Yes, that's a good remark as well. We have our, at least our CIO, I'm chief digital. We have a chief information officer as well, and he has a list. Some things are mandatory. Some things, things are just advised. For example, if you are building a new website, we have some CMS systems, which we advise people to use. It's not really mandatory, but we like people to use Dropout or WordPress. Because if you are building one application, we would like the other companies to be able to use them as well. So in that case, it makes sense to start using the same structure, the same platform. But if one of our companies is using an idea system and he's happy, or they're happy with it, we're not going to force them to change.

Lieven (21m 32s):

We are working with some ATSs and we probably will advise the other companies if they are going to change, to choose one of those we are working with, but we will never forcing them.

Joel (21m 43s):

So Lieven, we have a lot of companies that listen to the podcast. What are some things that you look for in acquiring a company that they might say, oh, that sounds like us. We're going to give House of HR a call?

Lieven (22m 1s):

Sponsoring my Congress is always a good start. But not just to give an open answer. We are not Adecco. We are not Randstad. We have a 2.2 billion euros revenue, which is not small, but it's not the 25 of Randstad for example. We are buying companies. We have an avatar starting from 5 million, because even if a company is really, really interesting, if they are just too small, if they are promising, but nothing more than it's too expensive for us to integrate in the corporate financial structure, et cetera. So we're not really looking for startups. We are looking for companies who are ready to scale up. Yeah, like these companies, we're just talking about a 100 million year revenue, 170 million.

Lieven (22m 45s):

These are big companies, but not probably the corporate companies that Adecco is going to buy. Something in between. We are buying the most promising companies which have already proven they are better than the others, and they have a great business model. We help them grow even faster. That was the whole idea.

Chad (23m 3s):

What about from a funding standpoint, Lieven obviously acquisition a little bit different than funding. What do you look at for those startups? Those early stage startups are those series A's or what have you, are you looking to fill gaps?

Lieven (23m 17s):

We are very digitally oriented. So if someone has a great ID and even though they even have still have to start, they can always contact us. Of course. And we will even sign an NDA if necessary. Normally we built them yourself. We have our own ID. So we know this business so well, we know this industry so good. So in most cases, we just launched our own ideas, which for example, nowjobs a great digital platform will make 100 million euros this year as a revenue, as a platform we launched a few years ago, starting from zero. We do invest in companies, but not that much. Not that often we mostly launch around startups.

Lieven (23m 58s):

It's something we always make fun. After the big competitors, they are too big to be creative. We are not, we are still small enough to be creative.

Joel (24m 5s):

That's awesome, man. Well, I think we all think there's going to be quite a bit of M and A activity, and it's nice to have you on the show to tell us about the M and A that you guys are doing and we'll be doing in the future. Let's take a quick break and we'll talk a little Job And Talent and a little metaverse.

sfx (24m 23s):

Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

Joel (24m 26s):

All right, guys, who's ready for a good old fashion IPO in the space coming out of Europe? I know I'm excited.

Chad (24m 32s):

I can't wait. Oh yeah. Just so excited.

Joel (24m 37s):

So a Job And Talent who we've talked about on the show before they're based out of Madrid and they are a recruitment marketplace and digital temping agency, they could opt for an IPO next year. This is according to claims by El Economista, the Spanish business newspaper reports that the company could choose to list on either a stock exchange in the good old US or a European burse. However, the paper added that the sale of the company has not been rolled out either. You're going to have to have a big checkbook to buy them though. In December of 2021 Job And Talent closed a $440 million euros.

Joel (25m 17s):

That's about $500 million in the US. A series A funding round, which valued the company at 2 billion euros, or about 2.3 billion US dollars. Job and Talent uses AI to match individuals to temporary work in warehousing logistics and light industry. Guys, whose buying the Job And Talent IPO next year?

Lieven (25m 40s):

That depends. Today, I would maybe invest in the American Stock Exchange, not in European things that aren't that stable for a moment. No, but I didn't know. Really, honestly, I didn't know they were that big. I know about them and they're active in Germany and then in France and in, I think Sweden some other countries, but they're not active in the Netherlands. They're not active in Belgium. So I haven't really gotten into them that much. I didn't know they were that big and I'm quite surprised and I'm pretty interested. So I'm going to look more into what they're actually doing because in my opinion, they were digitally. Yes. But not that spectacular really. I mean, it's just a temping agency with a website, so I'm not really convinced there.

Joel (26m 21s):

And pretty niche as well. I mean, sticking with warehousing logistics and sort of the light industries, I mean, that's, is that industry that big in Europe to be valued at 2.3 billion euros?

Jan (26m 35s):

Well, it is. And they just, you know, it's like focusing on healthcare, they are focusing on things that are super important and especially in warehouses, there, there is a huge demand for warehouse workers or drivers and those types of people. So I would, you know, if they are going to get the IPO and start selling shares I am definitely going to consider to buying some.

Joel (26m 55s):

We've got a buyer, everybody, I got a buyer, Chad, how about you?

Chad (26m 60s):

This is the future of staffing. And we take a look at it yeah, they do have a website, but they also have an app that allows it's like just in time, right? It's kind of like Uber for all these other different types of positions. And they start off on the easier side in being warehouse and logistics. And I say easier because it's more focused and it's easier to find out if somebody has a heartbeat or not right to work in a warehouse. To me, this is where most staffing companies need to move. They need to move toward technology and they have to have projects not to mention, if you take a look at it, Job and Talent is the employer so much like Dee Coakley in Remote.

Chad (27m 51s):

If you want individuals who are across borders to be able to do driving or warehouse work or whatever it might be, this makes it much easier for companies to engage without having to set up, you know, obviously in another country. So I think personally, I can't believe they took this much fucking money number one, Jesus Christ. It's a lot of money, but I still I'm still bullish on what they can do, not to mention their push. They have a shit ton of cash, which is one of the reasons why they're pushing toward the US.

Joel (28m 24s):

Sounds like a buy. Lieven?

Lieven (28m 25s):

And I'm also very charmed by the factor Spanish and just spreading all around Europe. It's not an American company. It's not a company based in UK. No it's some kind of a local startup.

Chad (28m 39s):


Lieven (28m 40s):

Yeah. Which it's good to see that the European countries can still deliver companies like this.

Joel (28m 47s):

Great. That's great. I think, you know, you mentioned Europe, but also in addition to Germany, France, UK, Sweden, Portugal, Mexico, and Columbia are on the list and here's the kicker they're coming to America. So when you look at that valuation, obviously a huge part of that is the US and if they want to go public in a US markets and Wall Street, having a US presence is going to be really important. I'm going to be on the lookout for Job and Talent ads for podcast spots. I think if we start seeing an influx of marketing to sort of lay the groundwork, going into an IPO next year, then I'll be intrigued by it. But we know, and we've talked about it on the show that companies outside the U S coming into the US don't have a great track record of success.

Joel (29m 44s):

So unless I see some traction by Job and Talent in the US for me right now, it's a sell.

Chad (29m 49s):

Queue up the Neil Diamond baby because they're coming to America.

Joel (29m 51s):

All right. So we have what we got three buys and one sell on the IPO for Job and Talent.

Jan (29m 59s):

But I'm pretty sure they are going to buy or acquire some company in the US that they are not just going there as a Job and Talent they will acquire someone.

Chad (30m 9s):

Ooh, I like that, Jan.

Joel (30m 11s):

Because no, one's going to buy them at that price tag. No. Can anyone see them buying Job and Talent? Recruit Holdings maybe? Like, I don't know, Randstad?

Lieven (30m 20s):

Randstad but Randstad maybe after they sold Monster.

Chad (30m 28s):

They're gun shy. They're gun shy. Yeah. I think you're, you're looking at more like a Main Capital, right? You're you're looking at organizations like that who were going to actually acquire.

Jan (30m 41s):

I believe LinkedIn will acquire them.

Chad (30m 41s):

Ooh, that's a good one.

Joel (30m 42s):


Jan (30m 43s):

Damn Jan, that's awesome.

Joel (30m 43s):

It will because they've got the DHL, FedEx, all those huge companies and LinkedIn is covering full-time employees and those types of jobs. But then world is the world where the monies are. So they will definitely going to consider or at least that's my prediction. I believe they are going to acquire them at some point. There it is.

Lieven (31m 1s):

Nice. LinkedIn is an interesting ID, but Recruit would make more sense. I think, because they already have, Indeed, they have Simply Hired to have Career Jets, not Career Jets, Simply Hired and Indeed. So it makes sense to them to buy something like this. But if LinkedIn would try to grow, yeah why not?

Joel (31m 17s):

Job and Talent needs to just roll the dice and by ZipRecruiter, that'll give them a footprint in the US.

Lieven (31m 28s):

Joel, do you have shares in ZipRecruiter? You say too often. Are you a shareholder?

Joel (31m 35s):

Of ZipRecruiter. I am not. Chad?

Lieven (31m 37s):


Chad (31m 37s):

No. Yeah, no.

Joel (31m 38s):

All right. Three buys and one sell on the show. All right, guys, let's talk a little sexual harassment in the metaverse. Okay. Is anyone anywhere else shocked that the worst of human behavior is rearing its ugly head in the metaverse already? I don't think any of us are.

Chad (31m 55s):


Joel (31m 56s):

So someone call HR. Back in December, the Verge reported that a beta tester for Meadows Horizon World's functionality, which is its social media replacement in VR was groped by a stranger within the digital realm. Let me read that again.

Chad (32m 13s):

How do they know they were grouped?

Joel (32m 16s):

By a stranger within the digital realm. Then earlier this month, a woman said that she had been quote, "virtually gang raped" end quotes in the VR environment.

Chad (32m 28s):

Come on.

Joel (32m 28s):

How does that happen? And Facebook or Meta has been forced to implement a new, personal boundary for VR avatars saying quote, "personal boundary prevents avatars from coming within a set distance of each other, creating more personal space for people and making it easier to avoid unwanted interactions." Guys this is why we can't have nice things. What do we think about sexual harassment in the metaverse? What is HR going to do about this?

Lieven (32m 53s):

I really hope they're going to ignore it. There is no such thing as sexual. Yeah. There's no such thing as sexual harassments in the metaverse. I just don't buy it. You cannot say this avatar has touched me in an offensive way. I mean, just make your avatar walk away. It's totally stupid. But probably that's the European point of view. And in America you actually think it's a thing. I don't know.

Joel (33m 19s):

Well, from what I've seen in the Facebook, no one even has like below the belt, everyone is like floating from the waist up. So I'm not exactly sure what they're groping.

Jan (33m 32s):

And I personally believe that it's just like, it's hype and it's going away because if it's not like the simulation ready player wildly, that movie will be just boring. And I don't want to spend my time wearing VR helmet and checking, you know, chatting with my colleagues across the world if I can do that via Zoom. And I'm already bored and frustrated with the Zoom. So why pay extra money or do you know, the metaverse is the hype and it's going away within two years.

Chad (34m 4s):

The question is the functionality even available to grope someone? To take their clothes off? Because what you're really doing is you're just bumping pixels into each other. I mean, it's a horrible experience in the first place, if you've ever had to do to get into the metaverse. I like the four foot kind of like radius because that means you're not bumping into everything, but I just, the functionality in itself, I don't understand it. Now the bullying aspect I get. Right. And we should be able to shut bullying down much like we do on Facebook or chat boards or Reddit or whatever it might be. Right. But I just don't, I don't understand the whole functionality piece and actually getting raped in the metaverse.

Chad (34m 49s):

Cause I mean, if that is actually, I don't understand somebody help me.

Joel (34m 53s):

Oh, you can agree or disagree the metaverse of the future. But look, HR is going to have to address this at some point. You're going to see people at conferences talking about sexual harassment in the metaverse. Companies are going to be talking about what kind of policies do we have to make for our metaverse solution or whatever we're doing. As companies do this, HR is going to have to face it and figure out like, okay, what policies do we have? Just like they did with social media companies. Didn't want to worry about what people are saying on Twitter. Are they bullying or like? But companies are going to have to address this. And it's going to be a big fucking pain in the ass for them, whether they like it or not.

Joel (35m 35s):


Jan (35m 36s):

Plus there are so many, you know, it's a programming language that you need to use to create that world. And there are company, there are games like Grand Theft Auto, when you can implement or install some, some modes that will change the whole environment. So I'm thinking that people will be trying to hack that environment in some really mean way. And, you know, so we should probably wait to see more of those cases. ,

Lieven (36m 4s):

And I think groping should be at least a paid option in the metaverse.

Chad (36m 11s):

They should actually have brothels. You choose to go into a brothel.

sfx (36m 13s):

Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Chad (36m 16s):

Then you have, you know, again, you choose to go into that. But again, I, unless it is a Grand Theft Auto kind of scenario, which is a great point Jan, I just don't understand how any of that even matters. And you talk about social media and the protocols and things that HR had to put in play. I don't know what's going to be different in moving those over to the metaverse.

Joel (36m 40s):

So if I'm in the metaverse and I'm an intern and the CEO hits on me, what do I do about that?

Chad (36m 49s):

What happened from the CEO hits on you in your office?

Joel (36m 53s):

You report it, but it's in the metaverse. So did it really happen?

Chad (36m 58s):

It's the same shit dude. And you cannot disassociate those things. Those actions are still actions, whether they are in a chat, on WhatsApp, in the metaverse or in your fucking office. So to try to find lines between that is just total bullshit. They're the same.

Joel (37m 11s):

And I think a jury is going to have fun, figuring all that out. And HR is going to have fun figuring all that out.

Chad (37m 24s):

That'll be easy.

Lieven (37m 25s):

In the metaverse there's no such thing as physical integrity. So

Joel (37m 28s):

The CEO says it wasn't me, someone put on my headset. That wasn't me. I don't, prove it.

Lieven (37m 35s):

Yeah. My profile had been hacked.

Joel (37m 38s):

All right, guys, another episode in the books. Let's say thank you to Jan for joining us. Jan for anyone who wants to connect with you, where would you send them?

Jan (37m 51s):

Definitely LinkedIn. That's the first option plus that's the place where all recruiters are, right?

Chad (37m 55s):


Joel (37m 55s):

And buy his book for God's sakes, buy a sponsorship to Lievens conference.

Lieven (38m 2s):

It all starts with sponsorships.

Joel (38m 6s):

That's right. And if you want more European goodness, go check out This has been fun. Let's hope that the world is still intact when we record our next show. And with that.

Chad, Joel and Lieven (38m 20s):

We out.

OUTRO (38m 55s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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