Welcome to Sintra's Jungle

Pack your burner phones and buckle up, because this week on The Chad & Cheese Podcast, it's all jungle—no welcome.

• France is banning social media for kids (but can your teen outsmart Macron with a VPN? Oui.)

• Amazon’s bringing “jobs” to Europe—aka quotas, piss bottles, and tax-dodging galore. Spoiler: Europe’s not buying the propaganda.

• "Welcome to the Jungle” launches in the U.S., and it’s giving strong “Muse with amnesia” vibes. Brand pages? In this economy?

• Plus: Lithuania’s Sentra seduces us all with sexy AI agents while Italy’s JETHR reminds us boring still pays the bills.

  
  

🎤 And don’t miss: Belgian punks ghosted by Trump’s America, Ronaldo comparisons gone wild, and why Taco Bell + Guinness is either innovation or indigestion.

It’s chaos, comedy, and career site carnage—just another day with Chad, Cheese, and Lieven.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel Cheesman (00:35.658)

Seven Nation Army couldn't hold us back. were listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast as Europe. I'm your co-host, Joel, Supreme Leader Cheeseman.

Chad (00:44.945)

This is Chad, Dopa hit, So Wash.

Lieven (00:47.926)

And I'm leaving to punk for Trump, van Nivenaessen.

Joel Cheesman (00:51.726)

And on this episode, the jungle is Americanizing, France is banning, and, you guessed it, who'd you rather? Let's do this.

Chad (01:05.969)

We gotta hurry this up. Leaven's on vacation. Okay? We gotta get this moving. Where you going, Leaven? Yeah, where you going?

Lieven (01:08.462)

Hmm

Joel Cheesman (01:10.766)

How is my all?

Lieven (01:14.276)

To France.

Joel Cheesman (01:14.7)

Yeah, the ski resorts are closed, Leaven. Where do you go in the summer? The Alps are snowless, right?

Lieven (01:21.344)

The Alps are up, they have some white caps left but it's not ski material. My kids actually are complaining, my kids they said you can ski in Chile and they were very offended that I didn't want to take them to Chile to go skiing. But so we're going to we're going to tropical France, Martinique, the Caribbean. We were supposed to come to the United States. Well, Trump happened.

Joel Cheesman (01:26.86)

not leaving ski material.

Chad (01:35.569)

That's a hell of a flight.

Chad (01:40.017)

Motha Neek.

Joel Cheesman (01:41.87)

Martinique.

Chad (01:47.149)

Yeah, I remember. Yeah, what happened?

Lieven (01:51.572)

And so... It's not happening now.

Joel Cheesman (01:51.982)

you

Chad (01:54.491)

Yeah, I get that. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, I mean, it's one thing when you start to see. Yeah, it's one thing when you start seeing the, you know, the whole, you know, ice kind of like converge and just start plucking people off the streets. And then the next thing you know, it's wait a minute, those are citizens. What the fuck is going on here?

Joel Cheesman (01:58.806)

You ain't welcome here, boy. You ain't welcome here.

Lieven (02:01.056)

No.

Lieven (02:08.087)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (02:13.422)

Apparently the shit's true. Like give me your phone. I've, I mean, I've heard stories of people bringing burner phones from outside of the U S because if their phone gets searched, they don't, I mean, it's crazy shit. It is.

Lieven (02:22.98)

It's like China. It's like China when our politicians go to China, they have to bring burner phones.

Chad (02:28.133)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (02:30.926)

Cats, cats and dogs living together.

Chad (02:31.665)

Too much, too much. This is the, you're bringing me down. We need shout outs.

Lieven (02:35.62)

Only three more years or something.

Joel Cheesman (02:36.763)

We need some shout outs. man.

Chad (02:39.259)

my guy again. Come on. Yes. Thank God. well, you're gonna love this one. Shout out to the Portuguese national football team who are now the UEFA Nations League champions. Portugal beat Denmark in the quarters, Germany in the semis, and Spain in the final. Winning by penalty kicks.

Joel Cheesman (02:44.684)

Save us, Chad. What do you got?

Joel Cheesman (03:00.334)

Damn.

Chad (03:05.989)

It was on the same day that Roland Garros was finished and Alcazar that that motherfucker came back one in five sets over five hours. Then we've got Spain versus Portugal. Portugal takes it. Independent kicks five to three. But here's what's mind boggling for me. And I bet it is for you to leave and watching Portugal win the Nations League trophy while the US gets smoked by the Swiss for nil.

Joel Cheesman (03:24.248)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (03:35.461)

It's amazing that a country like Portugal, which only has 10 million people, about the same size population as Ohio, they can be so much better than a country with 300, over 300 million people. big shout out to little old Portugal, Nations League winner.

Lieven (03:43.822)

hehe

Joel Cheesman (03:56.878)

Chad, I gotta know, because I always compare my physique to Ronaldo's. So I feel like I have a connection with him. Is he gonna play? he playing? I hear he's coaching a little bit. What's going on with Ronaldo?

Lieven (04:01.538)

Hahaha

Chad (04:12.911)

Yeah, I think that he's a specimen. He looks better than most 20 year olds, right? And he is an amazing shape, great cardio. He does cherry pick a lot. I mean, he's not playing both sides of the ball. He's not playing defense. That dude's not playing defense at all. So he's saving a lot to cherry pick and he gets obviously a good share of goals. But the Portuguese team is so young in the talent they're hell. They have five on PSG and PSG

Joel Cheesman (04:35.458)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (04:42.149)

just won Champions League. it's pretty deep. even if he... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fernandes, yeah, mean, tons, tons of talent. So he could walk away and they would still be fine, but I don't see him doing that. He's just, he's the GOAT. I mean, that's all there is to it. He's the GOAT.

Joel Cheesman (04:46.712)

Don't forget Man United's Bruno Fernandez.

Joel Cheesman (05:02.626)

Yeah, it's like, it's like watching messy in Miami. The dude is just phoning it in until he gets like two or three, well, just gobstopping plays. But the rest of the game, he's just kind of floating around watching these scrubs, you know, try to play, try to play soccer. So speaking of Ronaldo's physique and how similar it is to mine, my shout out goes out to Taco Bell. Chad Taco Bell saving the world one Chalupa at a time.

Chad (05:11.247)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (05:17.649)

You

Chad (05:29.797)

No.

Joel Cheesman (05:31.788)

which you can find in many, many European countries. But guess what? Taco Bell is coming to Ireland and one Irish influencer had something to say about it. Check it out.

Chad (05:43.067)

Yeah.

Chad (05:49.393)

You

Joel Cheesman (06:05.719)

Sedilla.

Joel Cheesman (06:27.288)

Ha

Chad (06:27.793)

Catholics. Fucking Catholics.

Lieven (06:27.895)

You

Lieven (06:32.376)

You

Joel Cheesman (06:44.344)

Just to help out the Irish out there. What goes surprisingly well with Mexican pizza? How about a Guinness and a shot of Jameson? Now it's a party, kids. Now it's a party. Taco Bell coming to Ireland. Shout out, shout out to the Bell. Shout out to the Bell.

Chad (06:54.176)

Jesus. And your stomach.

Leave it. What you got?

Lieven (07:04.653)

From the bell to the Belgians. I got a shout out to the Belgian band, The Kids, and it's a punk band. And they were supposed to be touring all around the United States by now. But they had to cancel their American tour after being ghosted by the United States visa office. No visa, no reason, just radio silence. And all because they posted some negative posts about Trump on social media. And now they're...

They're totally not welcome anymore. we support our Belgian punk. We support the attitudes. So shout out to the kids.

Joel Cheesman (07:41.772)

Belgian punk rock.

Chad (07:42.097)

Shout out to the kids.

Lieven (07:44.48)

And I wonder Joel, chat, do you think I'm on that blacklist as well for being, for saying something not that nice? So, okay.

Joel Cheesman (07:51.614)

You're rolling with Chad and cheese. You have immunity from Trumpism. Nothing but love for you in America, my friend. Nothing but love for you in America. That's right.

Chad (07:55.163)

So yes, you're on the blacklist. You're on the blacklist.

Lieven (08:01.732)

Okay.

Chad (08:02.513)

Oh, dude. Oh, we love you. We love you. I can't speak for the administration. mean, I've been in the military for 20 years. I'm going to be coming back sometime soon and I'm going have to bring a burner phone.

Joel Cheesman (08:08.238)

And

Lieven (08:08.526)

Because I...

Joel Cheesman (08:15.97)

Yep, and you know what they say about hanging with Chad and Cheese.

Lieven (08:16.547)

because

Chad (08:22.705)

And that's a high average.

Lieven (08:24.82)

Yeah, but I'm constantly looking over my shoulder if those ice people aren't there yet. So I'm getting anxious. The ice people.

Joel Cheesman (08:29.868)

The ice people. it's ice.

Chad (08:31.121)

They are the ice people.

Lieven (08:35.044)

a wee couple boys.

Joel Cheesman (08:39.06)

All right, this is pretty good shout outs. I like this. This is good. Let's get to our topic.

Chad (08:41.809)

Not too bad, not too bad. To the meat.

Lieven (08:45.71)

Topics!

Chad (08:47.813)

Topics.

Ha ha ha.

Chad (08:55.164)

love Stephen, love that Stephen.

Joel Cheesman (08:56.59)

Ugh.

nursing a hangover boys, my bad. All right, let's get to Mumford and Sons concert and 20,000 white people have me all have me all out of out of whack. All right, let's get welcome to the jungle. We got fun and games a French based recruitment marketplace. They've launched a new talent sourcing solution that matches job offers to candidates and the database. More importantly, the company is also expanding to the United States aiming to help companies showcase their employer brand. And of course attract

Chad (09:06.412)

my god.

Chad (09:11.301)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (09:28.878)

top talent. It's not just a Guns N' Roses song. It's now the newest job board in America. Chad, what do think about Welcome to the Jungle in the US?

Chad (09:40.027)

So you remember the Guns N' Roses music video for Welcome to the Jungle, which is very apropos. It has Axl Rose getting off a Greyhound bus in LA, dressed like a hick from Indiana, backwards ball cap, blade of grass sticking out of his mouth. Remember that? Well.

Joel Cheesman (09:46.688)

Okay. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (09:53.87)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (09:58.894)

Yeah.

Chad (09:59.627)

That's a great metaphor for welcome to the jungle coming to the US. They have no clue what they're getting into. And you can easily identify that by looking at the deliverables on the goddamn website. They're basically a job board with an ATS. Yes, I'm using air quotes, kids. And brand offerings like employer profile pages. 2008 called and they want their product modeling backs. Now, don't get me wrong.

If a job site is niche and it serves a specific community where hiring companies don't have landing pages on their career site for that community, yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense to create a company profile to share that specific community message to users. I totally get that. That's not Welcome to the Jungle. They're broad-based, right? It could be more welder-specific, LGBTQ +, landing pages, whatever it is, but Welcome to the Jungle isn't niche.

So why would I use a job board to do that? When I can do it on my own site, right? Or it can go to a company like Happy Dance that focuses on landing pages and kind of like the cosmetic pieces of that so I can get SEO juice. Not you welcome to the jungle, but I can get SEO juice. And for a similarity standpoint, all of this feels like the muse about 10 years ago.

Joel Cheesman (11:11.758)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (11:24.109)

And the Muse isn't setting the world on fire. So whoever the advisors are for Welcome to the Jungles, Go to Market Plan in the US, I have three words. Stay in Europe.

Joel Cheesman (11:43.06)

Axl Rose from Indiana, by the way, little known fact, Axl Rose and and Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson, Axl Rose and John Cougar, Mellon Cam, which most people know. The names, the name is awful. I've said it before, like I can't imagine a sales rep calling a US company going, hi, this is this is Sven from Welcome to the Jungle or whatever. I'm giving an American accent. I mean, you're with who? What?

Chad (11:45.071)

Yeah, that's why I said, Hick, Indiana Hick. Yeah, Gary.

Chad (12:08.613)

man.

Joel Cheesman (12:12.462)

Welcome to the jungle. Okay. So aside from that, you know, Chad, we just had a show talking about the demise of monster and career builder. we've talked about talent.com recently who formerly knew VU and, and multiple sites that have come and gone. I can't name one that's come from Europe and been successful. Help me out here, but I cannot. these guys have raised a lot of money.

Chad (12:21.189)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (12:39.79)

Uh, they've been around since 2014. They're clearly successful in, that niche and they get Europe. obviously get, get, get France and the surrounding areas. The U S is a totally different beast and the U S basically 80 % of job postings and the hiring like ecosystem is indeed in LinkedIn. So to make any kind of like, uh, headway into the U S market, um, I think as a, as a fool's errand, everyone wants to come to America, but

This is not innovation. This is not new technology. Chad, I think you talked about a video recently about a Gentic basically buying something or scheduling something where an agent talked to another agent and talked basically R2D2 to each other. Like that's where shit is going.

Lieven (13:19.044)

video recently about AT &T.

Joel Cheesman (13:32.078)

Uh, like show me innovation where a job seeker has an agent and the company has an agent and the two people talk and the two things talk to each other and figure out interviews and all other stuff. Like that's where the future's going. The future is not going to search for a job, look for, look at the job, apply the, that game is played and welcome to the jungle. Um, I've decided to say is, is barking up the wrong tree. Uh, I think this will be a massive failure, uh, for, for the company. Stay in France.

Lieven (14:00.92)

Thank

Yeah, welcome to the jungle. You know, I think in 2018, they were ahead of their time. It was a great concept and they were doing stuff which needed to be done and they should have moved to the US back then. But I think by now they're risk becoming a relic. AI is changing everything. It's changing so fast. look, like employer branding, content creation is commoditized. That is something all companies can do now with just a few clicks. It's very easy.

Chad (14:08.401)

What think?

Chad (14:15.494)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (14:29.364)

yeah.

Lieven (14:31.652)

Job descriptions, career pages are AI generated now. So you don't need a company like Welcome to the Jungle. There are so many things they are very good at, which now can be done by just a junior using five different AI tools, costing them 100 euros a month. So I think moving to the US is, I don't know, but it's going to change back to their core. Nothing.

Chad (14:48.241)

Mm.

Chad (14:56.421)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (14:57.048)

And it's kind of weird because they bought OTA. You, you, you OTA? No. which was Paul Forster was an investor, a founder of indeed. So Paul should probably know better than to think that this is going to work, but OTA came and then didn't really fly. So they got acquired. mean, the, mobile app, was, is an OTA app that they've now rebranded as welcome to the jungle. I mean, it's really warm and fuzzy.

Chad (15:01.157)

Which, yeah.

Lieven (15:03.268)

Thank

Joel Cheesman (15:25.26)

They focus it on like millennials and Gen Z and it's like, kind of work do you want to do? What kind of company? was very kind of warm and fuzzy. I just think that time has passed and that, they're behind the times on this one.

Chad (15:38.605)

And you really have to understand the US market and you have to understand the competitors. mean, like I said, the Muse has been here for years. I mean, for at least a decade, right? They've been doing that exact same thing even more than Welcome to the Jungle. And again, most people don't even know who the fuck they are. So to be able to understand, you know, really what the markets that you're going to, you have to have the right advisors in place.

Joel Cheesman (15:51.352)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Chad (16:07.269)

And you have to have enough money. They don't have enough money to come to the US to be quite frank. ATA, it felt like a clearance rack buy. Good for you. You got an app out of it, but it wasn't a great, I don't think it was a great model in the first place. So you put two not so great models together and what do you get? Well, if you take it to the US, I think you get trash.

Joel Cheesman (16:26.882)

Yeah. I mean, you have brands that Americans do know that that are failing monster career builders, zip recruiter, a dice. Like these are brands that have been around a long time that people know and they're failing. So you're going to tell me you're going to launch a brand new brand. That's going to be successful. I I'm, I'm not falling for the banana in the tailpipe on this one, Chad.

Chad (16:32.037)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (16:46.481)

But I do believe if you go niche, there are some really great opportunities to go niche. take a look at like Hackajob, for instance. And again, being an advisor for those guys, they started off in the UK and then they came to the US. They are incredibly niche and they've created a community around the tech sector. And even with everybody shedding tech individuals, they're doing great because they understand their community, right? And they understand the market.

Joel Cheesman (16:57.294)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (17:06.19)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (17:12.152)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (17:16.737)

So, I mean, at the end of the day, you have to understand go to market and you have to understand. And I would think that being from Europe, knowing that you're going from one country to the next, there are different go to market plans for those. I'd like to hear what Leeuwen thinks about this because they have so many companies in so many different markets in Europe. You would think they would take the same kind of thought process and do enough due diligence for

Joel Cheesman (17:36.685)

Yeah.

Chad (17:44.559)

the US, especially coming to a very large market like that. So, so leaving when you guys are looking at different go to markets for your current your current products. I mean, how much how rigorous is that is some cases that just pull the trigger and let's see if it works or is it always really deep due diligence?

Lieven (18:05.924)

It's definitely deep due diligence because it's too expensive to just try. mean, you always have the buy or the build strategy. And we realized if you are moving to a different country, it's much easier to buy something which is already strong than to build something which is strong in one country, but not necessarily will be success in another country. And we have some great products like NowJobs in Belgium. It's booming. It's a digital platform for freelancers. We have over 100 million revenue. It's amazing.

Chad (18:09.937)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (18:09.998)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (18:26.193)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (18:32.578)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (18:35.696)

Wow.

Lieven (18:36.052)

We started from scratch a few years ago, but doing exactly the same thing in the Netherlands, which is almost the same country, basically, it's very hard. So trying it in France, trying it in Germany is even harder. And I think if those people can't make it in Europe, why would they be able to make it in New York? If you can't make it there, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere, but I'm not sure. I don't think they should try there first.

Joel Cheesman (18:45.07)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (18:59.87)

Maybe welcome to the jungle is going to buy a career builder plus monster Chad. that would be interesting. By the way, I, I reserve, I reserved the right to change my mind if they get slash to write the jingle for their, for their American American ad campaign. All right, boys, let's get to, who'd you rather. That's right. If you don't know who'd you rather we read to companies that have recently gotten funding and we let you know who we'd rather.

Lieven (19:04.181)

Yeah.

Chad (19:06.129)

I don't have enough money. I don't have enough money.

Lieven (19:22.423)

You

Joel Cheesman (19:30.634)

And in this corner.

Lieven (19:38.5)

You

Chad (19:38.513)

There you go.

Joel Cheesman (19:39.278)

This will be fun to edit. have Sintra, Frank Sinatra, not Sinatra. All right, Sintra, Lithuanian AI startup. We don't say that very often has secured 17 million bucks in seed funding to empower small businesses with AI powered helpers. Sintra offers a platform with AI teammates that handle core tasks like social media, customer support, administrative work. That is Sintra. And in the opposite corner, have JET.

JEDHR, an Italian HR tech company, has raised 25 million euros in Series A funding. JEDHR says it, makes managing people incredibly simple, payroll, benefits, devices, compliance, and much, much more. Those are our two competing companies. And who'd you rather, Chad? Who'd you rather?

Chad (20:31.889)

I'm gonna start off with Jett and say that I believe it's boring. And you know what we say about boring companies that do the work that humans hate to do? They make money. On the other hand, this is who'd you rather. And if I'm at the bar and it's 2 a.m., I don't want boring. I'd rather go home with fun and sexy. And that's Sintra to a T. 12 million in ARR serving over 40,000 SME players.

Joel Cheesman (20:39.072)

You love boring companies.

Lieven (20:50.067)

Chad (21:01.777)

customers globally I I usually don't buy into SMB platforms, but with 40,000 customers They've obviously figured that the hard part are out their marketing is slick I've personally seen their ads all over the internet and even I believe on the tube in the UK And the numbers real quick 12 million AR are at 40,000 customers is only $300 a year per customer

pretty cheap, right? That's $25 a month. Pricing on the site today is $97 a month, which is about $1,200 a year. So that's still really cheap. If they can transition their current customers without even growing net new from $25 a month to $97 a month, that's $48 million in ARR. That's without any growth whatsoever. Sintra is smart, sexy, and it's getting SME

Lieven (21:53.156)

48 million ARRs. That's about any close to what's left. SMPRA is smart and sexy in getting SME because they cook on the run. They can't get any more efficiency and hiring less human by offering more than 12 different agents.

Chad (22:01.201)

companies hooked on a drug they can't get away from. Efficiency and hiring less humans by offering more than 12 different agents for only $97 a month. I only have one question for Cintra. Your place or mine?

Lieven (22:16.318)

Hmm

Joel Cheesman (22:21.998)

I don't know how much I can add to that. I mean, this is do you want the girl next door? Or do you want, you know, the big booty Latina in the in the club? And yeah, like, one is bored. I look, the whole like one platform, this whole it's, it's getting interesting. I mean, the rippling deal drama is entertaining. We got factorial over in Europe as well. These guys. Yes.

Lieven (22:25.348)

Do you want the girl next door or do you want...

Chad (22:30.545)

Thick. Thick.

Joel Cheesman (22:49.112)

probably going to be very profitable, probably will be acquired by a very big fish at some point. And shareholders will be incredibly happy. But if I'm looking for something real exciting for the future, that's going to get my attention and be really cool. Sintra is it, man. I mean, the website is cool. The whole sort of aesthetics about it. These little like robot, I don't know. Yeah, these.

Chad (22:54.449)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (23:04.068)

Thank

Chad (23:13.649)

with assistance.

Joel Cheesman (23:15.874)

fairies, these, it's like a magical mystery tour. mean, this thing is, yeah, it's like, and you and I talked a lot of startups, Chad, and I know that Leven's incubating a lot of startups and their company, like every company that's starting has to ask themselves, you know, okay, we need to do marketing. Do we hire marketing? Do we hire an agency? Like, what do we do? And ultimately the conversation is going to come up of let's just AI this shit.

Chad (23:19.503)

They're astronauts, aren't they? Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (23:42.798)

and that's something that Sintra is doing, whether it's customer service sales, outbound, outbound calls, like all that stuff is getting automated in Sintra is at the cutting edge of being, you know, a trendsetter in that realm. So do I think jet will probably cash out and make their shareholders really happy? Yes. But do I think the bigger bet, the 20 X investment opportunity is with Sintra. So for me as well, I'm going to go Sintra.

Chad (24:12.763)

Sexy.

Lieven (24:14.148)

But I to disappoint both of you because Sintra is far too young for both of you. So I'm the youngest one and I'll be the one taking Sintra home. We're not even going to talk about Jett and Jett rhymes with Jett. go ahead. that even rhymes too. I'm so good. Anyways, Sintra, I loved it. And I was wondering, looking into it, how did they get without any budget? How did they get known in the United States? How did they...

Chad (24:15.185)

What do think, Leaven?

Chad (24:20.485)

Hahaha!

Joel Cheesman (24:21.486)

Ha

Lieven (24:44.898)

become so popular and they didn't localize for Europe, they globalized from day one, they focused on the whole world. It's like they didn't even have a strategy for a certain region, they just launched. And then it went viral and they did something which was amazing and they published on Reddit and on X and they got picked up and people were talking about them like it was easy. And this is something I want to copy, which is very hard to do, I'm afraid, but I loved it. And it's a great idea creating something like...

Chad (25:07.665)

Yeah.

Lieven (25:12.226)

Personalities and those agents giving it body. It's I love it So centralize what we're going to do and it's it's yeah

Joel Cheesman (25:15.79)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (25:15.95)

Yeah.

Chad (25:21.935)

And I love it because it was, it's too easy. mean, their marketing was so in your face of stop hiring humans, hire AI, right? They were one of the first ones that I actually saw do this. And I was surprised they hadn't gotten funding until I looked into their founders, who at 15 and 16 were already building companies. I mean, these guys, I mean,

Joel Cheesman (25:22.114)

That was an easy one. knew, I knew leaving was going to go Sintra.

Lieven (25:25.124)

Yeah

Lieven (25:31.364)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (25:36.11)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (25:48.452)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (25:50.769)

Apparently, you know, they're a hotbed there in Lithuania out of the garage. Very, very Larry and Sergey garage. Google feels, right? But yeah, this is, it's fricking, I dig it.

Joel Cheesman (26:00.258)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (26:02.998)

And one thing I really liked about them was their, it's not really a baseline, but something they stated on their websites. We're not here to replace stuff. We're here for those who can't afford stuff. That's nice. It makes sense. Yeah.

Chad (26:13.943)

Especially for SMBs, right?

Joel Cheesman (26:18.168)

Sintra, call us. We want to be in the Sintra, Sintra business. We'll be right back.

Lieven (26:19.778)

Yeah.

Chad (26:20.387)

You

Joel Cheesman (26:27.982)

All right, guys, a little Amazon and agent talk. Amazon's 2024 impact report underscores its 41 billion euro contribution to Europe's GDP and 150,000 direct jobs boosting high unemployment region like France's help me out here leaving. Did I say that correctly? Okay, there you go. Well, further growth expected from AWS investments in Germany, the UK, France and Spain. Meanwhile,

Lieven (26:47.837)

Haute France. Haute, so the high parts.

Joel Cheesman (26:57.036)

The rise of AI coding tools fueled by low cost or free pricing for mass adoption and data collection threatens entry level tech jobs. Though some suggest higher AI prices could encourage hiring humans on unlikely shift in the short term. Chad, your thoughts on all things Amazon and agentic this week.

Chad (27:17.937)

going to surprise you here because I think the Amazon narrative feels like total bullshit propaganda. I'm surprised they didn't get Josh Berson to write research for him. We're talking about a company that has burnt through total populations of workers in the US because the jobs suck. So thinking that it's changing from a you have quotas so no bathroom breaks unless you piss in a trash can kind of company to a savior of Europe.

Joel Cheesman (27:33.752)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (27:46.545)

is laughable at best. I do think it's interesting, though, that Amazon is playing the GDP and investment card. It feels like they ripped a couple of chapters out of Patrick McGee's new book, Apple in China. We just talked to him this week, Go check out our episodes where Patrick outlines how Apple has built China's tech sector through spending hundreds of billions in the country and has trained 28 million Chinese employees over

Lieven (27:46.947)

Yeah.

Chad (28:16.354)

over the years. So I really feel like kind of taking that framework of, wait a minute, Apple went into China, they're spending this kind of money, and that's how they won the Chinese government over. Amazon wants to do the same thing. They want to win all of these different European governments over. they're trying to talk GDP. They're trying to talk investment, blah, blah, fucking blah, blah, blah. Yeah. they're so they're, know, Europeans can piss in trash cans instead.

On the AI side of the house, we've been talking about this forever. Short-term cuts in headcount. Everybody's looking to try to skinny down so that they can have bigger margins. This sets up for a no skills workforce implosion later, period. We're not going to be teaching people because we're going to be giving jobs to AI. There's going to be no skills whatsoever as they try to move up the funnel because they can't move up the funnel. That's the hard part.

Amazon bullshit AI. I mean, it's a short term win. It's a long term implode.

Joel Cheesman (29:18.732)

Yeah, Chad, we we've seen this movie in America on the Amazon side. look, they, start out, they hire everyone that possibly can, they run out of human beings. They start moving into, impoverished might be too harsh of a word, but they move into areas where the jobs aren't plenty and people are willing to do, this work. They have warehouses near freeways, whether it be Alabama, Kentucky, like name your cunt, name your state here in the U S and there's an Amazon warehouse.

and they're employing people. obviously the PR side of this is great because every local community says, Amazon is moving in. We'll have jobs. People will be employed. Like we haven't had good jobs like this in a long time and working at the Texas roadhouse isn't exactly doing it for, know, for my family for so in the short term and PR it's, it's a great move by them. Um, I think it's all a, it's, it's all a ploy to do this until they can get rid of all the people and automate.

Lieven (30:06.468)

Thank

Joel Cheesman (30:16.514)

this whole thing or at least 80 to 90 % of the process. This movie is now playing out in Europe. They're going into areas that are diminished, that are challenged, that are economically struggling. They're getting great PR, which helps them with regulators, which helps them with politicians. We're bringing jobs to your community. How about you relax that regulation on such and such? And that is the game plan.

Chad (30:35.012)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (30:42.144)

until I think ultimately they, they automate a huge part of the business because they ran out of people to hire because the jobs aren't all that great. Like Chad said, pissing and trash cans gets old pretty quickly. I think eventually Europe will catch onto this and Amazon.

will be caught with their pants down, if you will. And their banana out, yeah, in the trash can. So many metaphors. Leaven, what do you think, man?

Chad (31:05.52)

Oh, pissing in the trash can, yeah.

Chad (31:11.505)

Are you excited, Levin? Are you excited for Amazon to come to Europe?

Lieven (31:16.118)

Not really. I refuse buying anything from Amazon. reading the press release, it almost sounded like Amazon wasn't a charity. They're going to make Europe great again, and they're going to help poor all the France out of their misery and parts of Spain. Okay, so yeah, great. But I would ask them first to start paying taxes, because they do pay taxes, they definitely pay some taxes, but they don't pay them where

Chad (31:27.635)

Yeah.

Chad (31:33.005)

Mm-hmm, Germany.

Chad (31:41.008)

There you go.

Lieven (31:45.824)

they make their money, they just choose wherever in Europe can I pay the least and then they pay even less so they have some deals.

There was a European Union investigation in 2021. They were fined 250 million euros, which they refused to pay. they lobbied a bit and then the decision was annulled. Is that the word? Annulleren. I'm not sure. You know what it is? The decision was whatever. And the commission now appealed and we're five years later and nothing's happening.

Joel Cheesman (32:12.566)

An old? An old?

Chad (32:16.015)

marriage.

Joel Cheesman (32:16.524)

We'll go with it. Sure.

Lieven (32:24.804)

So they probably will never pay the 250 million. But looking into what's happening right now, it's like you said, the jobs they offer suck. And Europe at this point has an extreme low unemployment rate. It's the lowest in history in the European Union for the moment. And some regions still suffer a bit, but it's okay. It's getting better. So I don't think we definitely need those jobs. I'm more afraid about Amazon screwing up local entrepreneurs, local businesses.

Chad (32:53.028)

Yeah.

Lieven (32:54.53)

So I'm not, I'm definitely not left-wing, but I prefer small local people growing a small business than one multinational coming, killing us all.

Joel Cheesman (32:57.025)

and

Joel Cheesman (33:05.07)

And that, and that, know, blame Americans like everything else, but this was a, of the dialogue with the tariffs was that China's going to have to sell all this shit somewhere. And that Europe is a, is a very easy bridge from if we can't sell to Americans cheap shit, let's sell it to Europeans. And there was a lot of fear of this. think there still is, but Amazon coming, they're going to deliver all the cheap shit. like you can kind of blame America. Thank you very much for, for some of this because of.

Lieven (33:18.136)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (33:33.44)

of the tariffs and everything that's going on here. But yeah, the mom and pops of Europe, which I know both of you love, are definitely at risk with this trend.

Chad (33:39.855)

Yes.

Lieven (33:43.496)

And Amazon claimed they will provide stable jobs, will stimulate local economies, they will bring infrastructure, skills training, et cetera. I don't think Amazon is thinking about much more than Amazon. We'll see.

Chad (33:55.527)

Yeah. Yeah. More promises and propaganda than reality, unfortunately.

Joel Cheesman (33:56.078)

You

Lieven (34:01.667)

No.

Joel Cheesman (34:01.909)

Yeah. Leave and curious your thoughts on the, the agentic side. Cause I know you have some really strong opinions about agents and in automation and AI doing a lot of this work. And the story that you shared in our group, uh, highlighted a guy named Luke Aragone who in 2007, uh, earned $63,000 a year at his first job as a junior software developer.

and today he says that AI tools will write better code than what he did back then for the cost of roughly $120 a year. What are your thoughts on that trend?

Lieven (34:30.265)

Hmm.

Lieven (34:37.036)

It's going to happen. It's happening already. So we can cry about it, but better live with it. But we have a, and I think I said this a year ago also in one of these shows, we are getting a very big society problem. If people who are graduating now can't find a starter's job because starter jobs are just disappearing, they're being replaced. And I think the very best students, the top,

They will be hired by the big tech companies and they will, they get some kind of an education within the company, but it's a mediocre group, which just won't be able to find a job. And there's nothing worse than youth unemployment. It's a disaster. So all those agents, I love them and I'm playing with them and it's making my life easier. But if it's going to replace jobs, then we have a problem because we don't want young people hanging around.

Joel Cheesman (35:04.344)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (35:30.208)

making a nuisance of himself. They need to work and they need to work through House of HR.

Chad (35:32.216)

And we don't want them on social media. If they're not on social media, they can work, right?

Joel Cheesman (35:38.21)

Yeah, this is, this is not a wee problem, not a wee problem. So let's, let's go into a France taking a stance on social media. So French president Emmanuel Macron announced plans to ban social media for children under 15 and implement age verification for online knife sales. Apparently knife, knife sales are trending in Europe. emphasized the need for immediate action.

Lieven (35:38.98)

course. Wee problem.

Joel Cheesman (36:03.628)

citing concerns about online safety and the recent murder of a teaching assistant. Something that I know nothing about as has, Levin shows us his Rambo knife, for, for the listeners out there, Chad social media and teens. know you have some teens that are no longer teens, but you have experience with this, your thoughts.

Lieven (36:12.26)

You

Chad (36:13.572)

That's not a knife.

Lieven (36:15.246)

That's nice.

Chad (36:24.698)

I think it's funny because when we were teens in the 80s, there was this big war on drugs and an aspect of that was pointed at kids, right? Don't do drugs, dare officers come to talk to us at schools, there were commercials, you know, that kind of thing. Fast forward to today, dopamine hit after dopamine hit, it's just not good for anyone, especially your kids. It's made bullying worse, teen suicide worse, anxiety, depression, self-esteem.

Joel Cheesman (36:32.814)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (36:53.154)

Issues with filters everybody wants to look glitz glamour like they're from Twilight or something loss of attention and focus That's what Joel calls internet brain Social isolation get the fuck outside kids go play some sports and posting stupid shit Can you imagine the stupid shit we would have posted when we were 15 years old for God's sakes the list goes on so for me Yes, I know that

It is almost like an electronic leash for lot of parents and that's how they kind of like manage their kids. I know that they can see where their kids are at, but guess what? It's not good for him. It's a drug and it's bad and we I don't know personally. I think this would be a good thing.

Joel Cheesman (37:33.742)

Chad, you got me nostalgic. Let's take a look at that ad from the 80s.

Chad (37:37.821)

jeez. Yes.

Joel Cheesman (37:53.838)

they still have the partnership for a drug free America or do they just abandon abandon that whole that whole effort? I would like, I would exchange a little drug use for the kids in exchange for social media. think social media is so much worse than the occasional Michelob light. that, it's, it's, it's a shame. mean, you mentioned it. Great depression.

Chad (37:57.869)

I don't... Yeah, probably.

Chad (38:09.903)

yeah.

Joel Cheesman (38:18.658)

depression, anxiety, self esteem, body image, suicide rates increasing, sleep deprivation, physical activity, nobody's bullying, inability to have a conversation. I hate this. will, I will take my kids. have two teenagers. I will take them to lunch or dinner and I ask every question. Now I agree that I didn't ask a lot of questions as a teenager, but I could hold a conversation. I could ask and probe questions. My kids are just like,

Chad (38:21.796)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (38:46.252)

wall. It's amazing and they're smart kids, but they just, the communication just isn't there. look, there was, going to rec fest soon and you know, I bring Cole, this will be the third year that I bring Cole. He's now 18 years old. and let's just say that, that, that one, Steven McGrath, he's not alone, have tried to get Cole to have a good time. I'll leave it at that. And Cole's comment, he,

Chad (38:52.057)

not social.

Lieven (38:57.6)

and

Chad (39:02.586)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (39:14.35)

very anti-drug, very straight, very clean, very square. He said, think to you, uh, that you need to get smart Chad, that drinking is ruining, uh, your generation. And I think Steven's comment was no, that is ruining your generation. And he pointed at, uh, at Cole's iPhone and there's a lot of truth to that. problem is parents are in a no one situation because if I say no, no smartphone, no, no social media.

then my kid is ostracized and probably bullied, made fun of, and feels like a total loser. So as a parent, correct. So as a parent, it's like, it's no win. either like give it to them and they're like everybody else or I say no, and then they're, they're ostracized for that. We need the government. I'm generally not again, I'm not, generally not for more regulation and laws and government, but this is something that unless the federal government says no, no social media for kids under 15 or under 16.

Chad (39:48.664)

Not if it happens the whole country.

Lieven (39:59.972)

We need the government. I'm generally not for regulation and laws. The government, this is something that unless the federal government says no social media for kids under 15 or under 16 and parents can say, it's the law, because you can't have it, then it's going to continue to be a thing. But I think it is a huge, huge redemption for our kids. We are not seeing the effects yet, but we will, and we will all regret.

Joel Cheesman (40:12.938)

And parents can say, look, it's the law. You can't have it. Then it's gonna, it's gonna continue to be a thing. But I think it is a huge, hugely detrimental thing for our teens. We are not seeing the effects yet, but we will, and we will all regret that we let our kids at such a young age be on social media.

Lieven (40:28.868)

I totally agree about social media. Even though I feel 15 years ago social media was fun. It was totally different than it is today. Now it's all fucked up. But when I was young social media was cool and healthy and...

Chad (40:33.55)

Leave and wrap it up, my friend.

Chad (40:46.554)

Mm-hmm.

Lieven (40:53.196)

actually an improvement to my life. Anyways, I've got two kids who are 14 and I discussed it with them. Franz is going to, it's a great idea. Totally, totally make it illegal. And I was surprised. Yeah, we're becoming 15 the 1st of July. Ha, and then their little sister couldn't use it anymore. They were happy. But the problem is it's very hard, I think, to just block it. My kids are smart and they're going to use a VPN. They're going to find a way to get around it.

Chad (41:08.927)

there you go.

Lieven (41:21.474)

you'd have to take their smartphones away, which we're not going to do. So I don't think it's easy to make it illegal, but it's not easy to actually make it happen. Or it should be on a total European level and not just France. And then maybe, but still, I don't see it happen. It's a nice try.

Chad (41:31.162)

force.

Joel Cheesman (41:43.64)

Kids would be a lot better telling dad jokes, wouldn't they? I mean, that's my feeling. All right, guys, why did the Irish person go outside?

Lieven (41:46.532)

you

Chad (41:46.608)

There we go.

Joel Cheesman (41:54.338)

to sit on his patio. Patty, What's an Irish person's favorite kind of music? Sham, rock and roll. That's right, that's right kids. And the last one, what do you call an Irish spider? Patty Longlegs. Patty Longlegs. Leave and have fun in the Caribbean. Chad, I'll see you soon in England. We out.

Lieven (41:58.436)

my god.

Chad (42:05.273)

Ahhhh

Chad (42:11.459)

No.

Chad (42:17.38)

You got it. out.

Lieven (42:19.22)

We out.