You’ve heard about the meltdown at Silicon Valley Bank, right? Well, did you know that startups that employ more than 10,000 people and have raised venture funding totaling £3.5 billion in the UK were banking with SVB? Sometimes, when Corporate America sneezes, Europe gets a cold. We discuss. Then it’s time for a little Buy-or-Sell with Jobgether, Desana and Horsefly. And what podcast episode in 2023 would be complete without ChatGPT, this time with a European spin? It’s the perfect cocktail of recruitment news and commentary, just in time for St. Patrick’s Day.
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Intro: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Joel: Oh. Yeah. March 15th is International Eat an Animal for PETA Day or as I call it, Wednesday. Hey kids this is the Chad and Cheese podcast Does Europe. I'm your co-host Joel Hammond Cheeseman.
Chad: This is Chad. Here comes the son, Sowash.
Lieven: And I'm Lieven waiting for GPT5 so I can retire.
[laughter]
Joel: And on this episode, Silicon Valley Bank contagion hits Europe. Microsoft Germany announces Chat GPT4 and a little buy or sell. Let's do this.
Chad: We're all over the place for God's sakes. Lieven just outside of Brussels. Joel in the Midwest. And I'm all the way in Portland watching the sun fucking come up.
Joel: Who's in the best location? Not me. It's snowing and cold as shit.
Chad: Lieven. Lieven. He's in Europe for God's sakes. It is a bitch waking up and we do a good amount of work with Europe.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Chad: And waking up eight to nine hours behind, that's some bullshit man. I don't know how anybody does work on the fucking West Coast with Europe. I don't get it.
Joel: Everyone not in Portland drinking micro brews is crying a river for you right now. Better beer Belgium or Portland Oregon. That'd be a good contest.
Chad: Oh. It's a different beer conversation.
Joel: True.
Chad: They've got great beer here and amazing beer in Belgium.
Joel: Yeah. And they have about a 2000 year head start.
Chad: Yeah. Yeah. But still, America even though we are young, we do IPAs better than any country, period.
Joel: Yeah.
Lieven: Whatever.
Joel: Even Lieven shaking his head that he agrees with that although he's never stepped foot in Portland, Oregon or Oregon for that matter.
[laughter]
Lieven: It's true.
Chad: Hey. You don't have to.
Lieven: That's true.
Chad: Don't worry about it. I did it for you. I did it for you [laughter]
Joel: All right. Well, multiple time zones, various degrees of awake and wanting to go to sleep and in a happy hour. So let's get on with the show, shall we? With...
Chad: Shoutouts baby.
Joel: A few shoutouts I'll go ahead and go first. My shoutout goes to the Six Nations. I know Chad you get a boner over over soccer and Ted Lasso Season three is coming soon so I know you're excited but alien to most Americans is rugby, so I wanted to shine a light on one of the coolest sporting events in the world, Six Nations where Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, France, and Italy square off for athletic glory. As of this recording, Ireland with Saint Patrick's Day this week, is leading the contest followed by France, Scotland and England. Wales is too busy apparently cheering for Wrexham and apparently Italy is still wondering why they weren't in the World Cup. Anyway, an event Chad and I will eventually attend in some form or fashion before we die. Shout out to Six Nations. Also streaming on Peacock for those Americans out there that actually have Peacock.
Chad: The only rugby match I have ever watched, and I'm proud to say this, is when we were in Saint Patrick's Day in Cork Ireland and we watched Ireland beat up on England. So that was amazing. And I think that to be quite frank, is the zenith of my needing to watch rugby.
Joel: I shamefully put 20 quid on England to win that match. And I walked into an Irish betting booth and said, "Can I put 20 on England?" And he said, "No. You can't."
Chad: No.
[laughter]
Joel: He took my money anyway but he had a good time sticking it to me.
Chad: Yeah. And literally took his money. So Lieven, do you like rugby at all? Is that a Belgian sport at all?
Lieven: No. No. Really not. I don't think we have five teams so they're probably constantly competing each other and I think they run out of fun long ago.
Joel: It's all about soccer in Belgium, right? What else? What else is hot?
Lieven: Cycling, of course.
Joel: Cycling. Okay.
Lieven: Yeah. We have the best. We call it the Gent-Wevelgem. Cycling in the field. And only the Belgium's, the Netherlands and I think Czechia does it. But we have the best in the field cycling world.
Chad: We'll stay in the area with my shout out to Herald Mulder. And the team over at Textkernel. They're just over in the Netherlands for the acquisition of Djibouti. A...
Joel: Who?
Chad: A WhatsApp messaging platform. Yes. Djibouti. What's the capital of Djibouti? Djibouti. Now this is Djibouti. Congrats to Textkernel and Djibouti. We're gonna be digging into this a little bit deeper on The Shred this week and the Weekly Show. Also Herald was in a skiing accident recently. So get well soon buddy.
Joel: Are we sure Djibouti is not a porn star? I don't know.
Chad: I am not sure.
Joel: More on that. We'll dig into that issue. We'll dig into the issue for next time.
Lieven: My shout goes to Accent Jobs for launching their open-minded hiring campaign. It's a very open-minded thing to do. And I must say I was a bit afraid clients would not like it but in fact they did. So we only sent CVs, resumes, totally anonymized to our clients and they actually accepted and it was all over the newspapers like it was a big thing which we didn't even think it was. It should be normal. But now there aren't any mentions of ages or names or gender etcetera. And over 70% of the companies in Belgium claim they accept it and they will go with it. So open-minded hiring now is the new big thing in Belgium.
Chad: That escalated quickly.
Joel: Very nice. Very nice.
Chad: We're gonna be very open-minded as we are coming to the UK in July. Kids. That's right. Get those tickets for RecFest...
[music]
Chad: Knebworth Park. It's not that far from downtown London. Just take the train, come on up, the kids... Now don't bring the kids. But bring every single person in your TA operation. This is a day where we get together and we just enjoy Beautiful day... Might be raining, might be sunny, but we're together drinking beer, learning about TA stuff. So great. RecFest. Go to Chadcheese.com, click on the events in the upper right hand corner and register.
Joel: By the way, Chad and Lieven, RecFest could be an extra cheese event. Word is my 16-year-old son is gonna be there and drinking beer is legal in England for 16 year olds, so it could get a little crazy...
SFX: Watch out. Watch out.
[music]
SFX: Topics.
Joel: All right. You guys down with SVB? Yeah. You know me. Maybe you've heard the US's second largest bank failure occurred last week. Well, America sneezes and Europe sometimes gets a cold as SVB had operations in the UK. In light of the failure around 210 startup founders and leaders signed an open letter to UK Chancellor Jeremy Hunt warning that, "The majority of us as tech founders are running numbers to see if we are potentially technically insolvent." The signatures said they employ more than 10,000 people and have raised venture funding totalling 3.5 billion pounds. To save the day, HSBC has bought the UK arm of Silicon Valley Bank for one pound following the US's banks collapse. The purchase has brought relief to tech firms that feared they could go bust without help. The UK SVB arm had over 3000 business customers. The deal was arranged by the UK government and the Bank of England and no taxpayer money was used. The UK arm of SVB was small, but its collapse could have presented a risk for a sector that the government considers pivotal to the UK's future economic success. SVB was shut down by US regulators after its customers were hit by rising interest rates. Chad, your thoughts on SVB in Europe?
Chad: I'll tell you what, man. The US has trains and banks going off the fucking rails these days. It is ridiculous. We repealed Dodd-Frank and this is the kind of shit that happens. We roll back regulations on trains, and we have trains going off the track. So I mean, as we focus on what we need to do as a society to get shit pulled together, we need to have guardrails. That's number one. And when we take away the guardrails, this kind of shit happens and it impacts the entire world. So, although the US parent was in financial trouble, the obviously SV Bank and in UK was, "In reasonable financial help" before it was bought for a pound. One sterling pound by HSBC. So this feels kind of like a stopping of the dominoes before they actually start falling in the UK. The optics of SVB failure could have triggered a run on the bank in the UK. So let's just stop it before anything crazy happens. It's crazy. We did see that companies like Beamery signed a letter that was out there. The CEO I believe of Beamery signed as the signator to the government and the UK government came through.
Joel: And in the state, ZipRecruiter, I know has sort of been publicly affected by the bank closure here in the States. So it's interesting that Beamery over in the UK...
Chad: Long list...
Joel: Yeah. Do you know who else is on that list? Some of this stuff is unfolding.
Chad: We'll have that. We'll have the US list for the weekly show this week. It is a long fucking list...
Joel: We'll be sure to tune into that. My thing is that SVB took on a lot riskier loans than would normally be taken by a more conservative bank. And part of that is the DNA of being in Silicon Valley. A lot of startups, a lot of money that was loaned out when interest rates went up, when inflation goes up, the ability to pay back those loans is a lot tougher. Squeeze play happened and the resulting collapse is what we're seeing on the news today. Now, my thing is that if one bank that is embracing risk is done, what message does that send to other banks in terms of loaning money to startups to giving loans to startups, to taking what essentially is a pretty risky bet. You're not loaning money to Coca-Cola or a big company. The ecosystem requires that that has to happen. But if there's more aversion to risk, I think that affects a lot of companies not just in our space, but every space.
Joel: And those companies employ a lot of people. If there's less money in the system to take bets on startups that obviously impacts everybody. And a theme of this show has been the amount of money that's been going into startups in Europe. If that starts to dry up, that's a problem. And I think if we don't see the unicorns that we've been talking about on the show that are in Europe, the person-ios, the high bobs, the job and talents, if they start failing, then it becomes a real problem with getting money into the system and getting innovation hyper-charged in Europe. That's my takeaway from the SVB collapse and its impact on Europe. Lieven.
Lieven: Sometimes I felt it was too easy for startups to get money to a certain extent, but...
Chad: Yeah.
Lieven: I just read an article in a Belgium newspaper from the Sea of Showpad. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Showpad. It's one of the... I think it's unicorn already, or on its way to becoming a unicorn. It's from origin, a Belgium company. They went to Silicon Valley, and I'm not going to explain whatever they did, but it's a typical Silicon Valley style company Showpad. And they actually worked with Silicon Valley Bank and they said that the bank understood what they were talking about. This was the first bank they set when we were talking. They got what we were doing. They got our needs, and they invested money because they believed in us. And Showpad actually did very well. And I think it was a very good investment, but they wanted options on Showpad's future profits. And then Showpad left the bank for another bank. So they... Just a few months ago. So they were extremely lucky. They didn't lose anything at all. But apparently, that was the business from Silicon Valley Bank taking some kind of optional future profits, not just a percentage on whatever was loaned.
Chad: Yeah. I like how the UK actually allowed HSBC to cut swoop in and buy them. And there's kind of like, it's not bailing out the bank being SVB, but making sure that obviously the holders are... They're taken care of. There's a security net there. The problem I think that we're gonna see in the US is we're just gonna bail out SVB. And SVB in itself is a failing business. They went long on bonds. So you're talking about putting money into something that takes five to 10 years to get your return back. And most of these are short term, I need my money now, types of businesses. So when you don't understand who you're actually serving and the flow of cash that happens and then you start buying along when everything is short, I mean, it just makes no sense whatsoever. So from a CEO standpoint, from a business model standpoint, SVB needs to die.
Joel: A little bum they didn't come to us for that acquisition. I feel like one pound could be something that we could take on.
[laughter]
Joel: The other thing that mentioned here is SVB was a little bit of an old boys club. And we talk a lot about the old white guys controlling things. I mean, there was probably a lot of dealings that were going on sort of at lunches and things like that, that normally wouldn't happen at regular banks. And Peter Teal pulled all of his money before the collapse happened. And then you had social media, which this thing created a brush fire of people running getting their money outta the bank and it escalated very, very quickly. That might be something unique to SVB that a lot of other banks won't have an issue with.
Chad: It's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be interesting as they dig into this because there were PE firms who had portfolios that the entire portfolio went after the money. It wasn't just a couple of companies that were running on the bank. I mean, we're talking about PE firms sending their entire portfolio to run on the bank. So, I mean, this... It's gonna be interesting once we get into the forensics on what happened here.
Joel: Oh. Yeah. There's gonna be some congressional hearings to get to sort of the bottom of some of this.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: All right. When we get back on the other side of the break, we'll talk about some companies that may or may not have taken money from SVB.
SFX: Europe has a bunch of countries in it.
[laughter]
Joel: All right guys, who's ready for little buy or sell? That's right.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: We talk about three companies in Europe that have taken money recently. I read the summary, the boys and I buy or sell. Are you ready to play the game? Here we go. First up, Job Gather, a Brussels-based startup, which we've determined is the first Brussels-based startup on the show, they've raised €1.4 million in seed funding. This brings total funding to €2.3 million. Job Gather uses geotargeting and AI to help identify the score, and score the most flexible employers creating what the firm calls, "flex score," for its users. Founded in 2020, the company employs 29 people. Chad, are you a buy or sell on Job Gather right now beetle style.
Chad: Jesus. Geotargeting and AI for something that's... I mean, it's literally a very, very simple equation. I believe the latest LinkedIn data around remote work showed that 13% of the jobs on LinkedIn were remote jobs and they were receiving 50% of the clicks. Remote is obviously popular and in today's world of delivering a targeted group of individuals by the click and or jobs by duration, it's a validated business. The question is, does it need to be over-engineered with AI and geotargeting and etcetera, etcetera? I mean, who gives two shits about geotargeting if I wanna work remotely? That doesn't make much sense to me. I jumped into the system. It says it had 60,000 jobs, which is not a lot of jobs, kids.
Chad: The system was slow and lethargic. I mean, it was... I don't... It was very heavy on the graphics, which is probably what's slowing it down a lot. It just feels like this organization doesn't understand how to run a web business. It doesn't understand the actual industry itself, because to be quite frank, you don't have to go through geotargeting and AI, and all that other bullshit to make some great cash on all of those clicks and duration-base dollars that you could be getting. I went into the site to see how they monetize. I have no clue. So until it's clear to me, I love this space. I love remote. There's so much opportunity that's here. But for the ability to not understand the go-to-market for spending money on shit that they really don't need to, it's easily a sell for me.
Joel: Lieven, I really wanted to love this first Brussels-based startup.
Intro: I know. I know.
Joel: But it's a job board wrapped in AI, remote geotargeting, geofencing. I mean, they could probably throw a few more buzz terms at it, but it's essentially a job board. My guess is they launched in 2020 as a job board, the shit wasn't going the way that they wanted to, and someone said, "Let's throw AI in remote work post pandemic. That's definitely gonna work. We'll have somebody invest on our site that way." So if you go to the site, Chad mentioned it's a bit slow maybe that's 'cause he's in Portland where the Internet is always slow, but...
Lieven: Probably.
[laughter]
Joel: This is a quote from the...
Lieven: 'cause of by the weed.
[laughter]
Joel: Yeah. The Wi-Fi is on weed in Portland. Okay. So it says, "How does it work?" How does this site work? Number one, enter the search criteria that really matters to you. That's the first step. Number two, save your search. Number three, receive email alerts with new flex jobs. What does that sound like, kids? It sounds like a job board. It sounds like a job board. If it sounds like a job board, walks like a duck, or quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. There's far more better services that can do what these guys do they don't have a whole lot of funding. At the moment, I think... And you guys laughed at me 'cause I was sleep-deprived last time, and I said, "What a pistol in a gunfight."
Lieven: Yeah.
[laughter]
Joel: Yes. This is gun meet Cannon job gather is a big, big sell for me. Sorry, Brussels. And sorry, Lieven.
Lieven: You're just mean because I'm from Brussels and your president... Your former president sets Brussels was a hell hole and you believed him but Trump...
Chad: I did. No, I did not.
[laughter]
Lieven: But I must say, I looked into it very happily because I thought, as you said, the first Brussels start up, we're going to talk about, but I thought if they succeeded in offering well-paying, high-quality remote work, this might actually be successful. But if it's just one of those shady scraping sites, reposting old vacancies, so it's a sell and they bring... What was it? AI to chatGPT world. So they're late. They're late once again. So I'm afraid it's a sell as well. Sorry, Brussels.
Joel: That's three sells. Three sells. Maybe we can do better on the next one. A startup based in Scotland.
SFX: Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is If it's no Scottish, it's crap.
[laughter]
Joel: Alright, Edinburgh-based Desana has raised $7.4 million in a seed round, this brings total funding, the $12.1 million. The Desana Software lets employers connect to on-demand workspace in more than 600 cities across 60 countries, and includes an interface for managing flexible workspace bookings and meeting rooms underpinned by time scheduling portal that permits invoicing on the hour. The fresh funding will be used to boost growth, particularly in the United States. Founded in 2016, the company employs 36 people. Chad, are you ready to bust out some Bay City Rollers in sport a kilt or is Desana a sell?
Chad: So, we just talked about Gable, a very similar start-up, a couple of weeks ago on the Weekly Show. New research shows that hybrid is where companies are starting to find common ground with their employees, so instead of having the come... Everybody all in the office fights against the remote work, they're trying to have this hybrid kind of discussion which all lends itself to these types of platforms, either in the office or outside of the office. And that means being able to coordinate days in the office and workstations. The Desana model is like Airbnb for a workspace. And you know I love me some Airbnb, so it's got to be a buy.
Joel: There we go. There we go. Alright. So it's only strike really is that it doesn't own desana.com. Desana.com is just a landing page. They need to take some of this money they have just gotten and acquired desana.com. Anyway, the rest of the story is great. Chad mentioned Gable, which I think we both gave a rousing applause on the weekly show. Airbnb for office space by the hour, genius. There's competition, but the business model is a home run as companies look for ways to engage employees, give them space to get out of their studio apartment, see the world, have meetings with clients somewhere other than your apartment lobby or the Starbucks down the road. Yeah. I think this company's time has come, you're gonna see a lot of companies like Desana and Gable be successful. I still think my prediction that Airbnb will get into this space at some point will hold true as Chad shakes...
Chad: No.
Joel: Shakes his head. But for me, Desana just like Gable is a buy. Lieven.
Lieven: I agree. I like the whole concept. If it's like an Airbnb for business, it might work as long as they're focused on meeting rooms, not just desk space because when I'm in a city abroad and I need desk space, I go to the local Starbucks or to the library or wherever I can put my laptop. But if you need really a meeting room or to record a podcast, something like that done, it might work. If you need some place to you to work quietly, this could be nice. And their headquartered in Edinburgh so it has style. It's a buy.
SFX: Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is If it's no Scottish, it's crap.
Joel: Like a smooth drag of Lagavulin. It's a three-way buy for Desana. Alright. Let's get to Horsefly. Private Equity company LDC, a subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group, has invested in Liverpool-based talent acquisition platform, Horsefly enabling the platform to expand internationally. Horsefly subscription-based SAS platform provides companies with insight on recruitment, including global talent sourcing, diversity and pay benchmarking as well as workforce development and planning. The company has already doubled its revenue in 2022. Chad, are you a buy or sell on Horsefly?
Chad: A labor market information or LMI is a concept that I'm very familiar with working with state and US Federal Government to build a national labor exchange years ago. Horsefly has hot markets in the staffing and RPO world where those groups need to understand where the talent lives and grows. Government markets are always looking for new ways to look at data and tell a story, so there's money there too, but I'm not quite confident that talent acquisition leaders will pay for this kind of market data. Either way, two out of three bad in this case, so it's a buy for me.
Joel: Alright. So if you go to the site, it says, "The most comprehensive and accurate labor data market available." I love data, I know Chad loves data, the world loves data, and Visier competitor, I would say in this space, has received $216 million as providing data to this space now, terms of the deal were not disclosed, which I typically do not like, I like to know how much is going in. Otherwise, it's hard to comment on exactly if it's a buy or sell, it also helps global organizations to improve recruitment planning and employer branding, which I think is an interesting spin. Companies... Company clients include Coke, EDF, Manpower, Indeed, Jaguar and Land Rover as well as Virgin Media. So for me, without knowing how much they've actually gotten, it's hard to say, but I'm gonna go with a buy on Horsefly. Lieven.
Lieven: For me as well, data is everything. If you want to make a decision, and they offer accurate data that's something you just can't skip. No. I think it's a buy.
[music]
Joel: That's a triple buy for our friends at Horsefly. By the way Liverpool, a hidden gem of the UK, if you have not visited...
Lieven: Really.
Joel: I highly recommend it.
Lieven: Liverpool, really?
Joel: Let's talk a little. Little chatGPT have...
Chad: It doesn't sound like it does it.
Joel: Can we... Which Lieven has not been able to comment on, which I'm kind of excited to get his take on this. So Microsoft, Germany CTO has said that GPT-4, the new large language AI model from OpenAI will be introduced this week. GPT-4 is expected to be exponentially more powerful than its predecessor GPT-3, and will likely offer multi-modal...
Chad: Modality.
Joel: And will likely offer multi...
Lieven: Models. Multi-models.
Joel: Models that can draw information from videos and images in addition to text, that means it will be able to turn text into video, a feature already included in Google and Meta AIs. On the workforce front Antwerp-based Stellar Labs, a company that helps organizations improve the effectiveness of their training programs has raised 1.5 million Euros to expand using chatGPT to facilitate the design process with Stellar Labs own tools used to validate and customize the resulting training courses. Let's talk some ChatGPT, shall we? Lieven, Chad and I have talked a lot about the technology on various podcasts, but you have yet to voice your opinion, what are your thoughts on chatGPT?
Lieven: It's a different chat to chat. That's nice. You could be chatGPT yourself.
Joel: No one's buying the ChadGPT extension.
Chad: It's sold out. All across the nation.
Lieven: For me, it's... I'm looking forward actually to the chatGPT-4. We're using 3.5 now and for me, it's... But I'm maybe easily flabbergasted, but for me, chatGPT was amazing. It's a discovery.
Chad: So you're using it, but are you talking about House of HR and the different companies too?
Lieven: I'm using it constantly. It's like always open on my laptop and whenever I need a translation and in Belgium you constantly need translations, it actually works. Google Translate sucks. If you throw something... If you throw a word in it, it will translate a word probably to something pretty okay, but it never takes into account the context, etcetera. ChatGPT, I've translated whole texts, whole letters to French, for example, and after reading it, I had to change two or three words, but only that. So it saves a lot of time. So for us House of HR employees, but also for me as an individual, it works definitely. And we are still scratching the surface of what's possible.
Lieven: So I was looking into the chatGPT-4 like an eager kids watching Santa Claus, and now I think measly 175 billion parameters used in chatGPT 3.5, are as I said, measly compared to the trillions, they are predicting in GPT-4. I have no idea what this is all about but it sounds very impressive. Trillions of parameters used in chatGPT-4. So I'm looking forward to it, but also apparently they confirmed there will be the possibility to generate video and that's impressive. Generate images and not just like Dali where you can have some kind of a picture painted in the style of whoever, but really video and images. So now they're bought by Microsoft.
Lieven: Let's say I want to make a PowerPoint for Microsoft. It should be pretty easy to integrate this into PowerPoint. I'll just give a small briefing and they create a whole PowerPoint from, A to Z. This is going to change a lot. And for us, for our business this will change a lot as well, the moment, it has an impact on employees everywhere it will have an impact on the dumping business. Let's say a lawyer agency, they have 30 lawyers and they have three, what we call, paralegals. With chatGPT, they might only use two instead of five or three. It will definitely change things and we're just trying to figure out how to make good use of it.
Joel: Do we know what languages it works in? I know it's fairly limited right now. I know Russian, French, German, I think our language is an addition to...
Lieven: Dutch.
Joel: English.
Lieven: It works perfectly in Dutch. It's understands Dutch, it's speaks Dutch to me. It's perfect. And Dutch isn't the most common language. We have only like 16 or 17 million Dutch speakers in the world maybe a bit more but...
Joel: Will it give you answers in Flemish though, is the question?
Lieven: Well Flemish is just a... It's a local accent from Dutch. It's the same language actually, but it's just... It sounds a bit different, but it should be the same one written.
Joel: It's no Scottish, everybody.
Lieven: Nah. It's...
Chad: So you were talking about has 175 billion parameters currently and in their predicting...
Lieven: Trillions.
Chad: 100 trillion parameters. So it's... That's just opening up the data model itself.
Lieven: Plenty of zeros.
Chad: Yeah. A lot of zeros. Image and audio with Dolly and Whisper. The topics that we should be really addressing right now are the... These are large language models. They won't be able to work in specific domain space. They can do kinda like the general pieces. We have... I don't wanna say chatbots. We have conversational AI, we have transformative age AI in our space that is specific to the domain and the big difference here is what the data or what the model's being trained off of. Most of the models that we care about being a company are the behaviors and the conversations and those things that actually happen within our systems and within our candidate interactions and those types of things. None of that data's available to ChatGPT. None of it. So for us to be able to use those together, we talked to Ryan Steelberg from Veritone where they're calling it a linked type of a system where you have the very general large language models that link with the more domain specific. I think that to me is going to be exciting. And Joel and I already know companies in our space who have domain-specific powerful language models and they're also starting to use this linking of now the generalized on the ChatGPT side. So this could be exciting for both sides, more specific and then also general.
Lieven: But do we think it'll be possible to isolate the algorithm from ChatGPT? Because it's open AI, so it should be open source and to run it, if that's the word I can use, on your own private database with let's say tons of contracts within whatever kind of legal contracts. So it could generate contracts based on perfect data because it's our data. We developed it. It's proven to be correct. So if you only feed it with this kind of data, which is correct data, then the results should be perfect. But I'm not sure if it's possible using their API. We're looking into their API's right now and I know we can integrate it in our own apps, for example, to help people answering questions but I was wondering could it be possible to use the algorithm on isolated data and only return information from there? That would be interesting.
Chad: We've gotta remember that those more domain specific models already have I guess pretty much algorithms that have been training on that data for years. So it's much different when you have ChatGPT which is incredibly powerful, but it's still a puppy and it's just let... If you give it this new data, it's gonna take a while for it to train up on it where these other domain specific models have been training for years and years. So I don't know if it's going to supplant right out of the gate, I think long term, It perspectively could, but I think the domain vendors for recruiting and talent management, they don't have anything to worry about just yet. Unless you're selling fucking vaporware.
Joel: And turning text into video. What could possibly, possibly go wrong? We out.
Chad: We out.
Lieven: We out.
Outro: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast podcast or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No. You hung out with these two chuckle heads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.