Facebook Jobs Rises While OpenAI Gets Dirty

Facebook Jobs is back from the dead (again), Appcast is trimming fat, Handshake is circling the drain, and Zuck thinks he can out-LinkedIn LinkedIn. Meanwhile, Sam Altman at OpenAI skipped straight past AGI and gave the world what it really wanted—AI-powered porn and a Chrome-killing browser. Add in MetaView’s billboard disaster, Adzuna’s half-baked search “innovation,” and Deal buying anything that moves, and the bullshit meter is shaking off the table. Welcome to the talent industry—where ideas are recycled, VC checks get burned, and nobody builds what recruiters actually need.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel Cheesman (00:17.494)

Bustin' makes me feel good. Hey boys and girls, it's the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel No Kings Cheeseman.

Joel Cheesman (00:28.726)

And on this episode of HR's most dangerous podcast, Meta comes back, AppCast says farewell, and OpenAI gets naughty. Ooh, what could that be about? We'll be right

Chad (00:41.784)

This is Chad, forest for the trees, so watch.

Joel Cheesman (00:49.246)

and AI gets naughty.

Joel Cheesman (00:56.318)

I don't know how you, I don't know how you did it, man. You went from Friday to what Friday basically. it sounds like you took a little break on Thursday night, but still, that is, that is a, for a 54 year old, that's a worthy week of partying that you did.

Chad (01:02.334)

And we're back.

Chad (01:06.68)

You've had some time back at home. So you've been able to chill and kind of detox. How are you feeling after Wreckfest?

Joel Cheesman (01:22.037)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (01:24.974)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (01:25.45)

How that guy's dead is shocking. How some of these guys aren't dead blows my mind. It really does. There's something in the water in Ireland and Scotland that I don't know. I don't know what it is. So, so Wreckfest, your takeaways?

Chad (01:29.758)

dude, it's, it's a marathon, not a sprint. keep telling Dave Ralph, we've had this discussion before. know you're Irish. I know you can hang with anybody, but Jesus Christ, man, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint, buddy. It's not a sprint. So yeah, especially at all week. What's up?

Hahaha!

Joel Cheesman (01:50.848)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (01:54.862)

It's crazy. Yeah, I mean, it was wonderful. It bigger, better. felt like there were like, it's bigger, obviously. We changed locations a third year. So still new in the US, only the third year, but the location was bigger. It looked like there are at least twice as many vendors. And I had a lot of people say that.

and more people, but the footprint was much larger. And it was interesting because I actually had somebody say that came from the UK and said, it's funny because at one o'clock in the UK, people are out drinking beer and they're bullshitting with their friends talking about business stuff, right? But I said, here in the US, you guys are all about business. The tents are full. I mean, the tents are full. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, you're

Joel Cheesman (02:38.206)

Yeah. Yeah. It is a bit shocking for all the Europeans, that come over. I thought it was great. think that the, the ascendancy of, of rec fest is, is awesome. it's a, it's a, it's a conference that is unlike any others, that we attend and good for them that they've been able to bring this. It's no easy feat to pull these events off. I mean, we had, we had a small event in Louisville, that I basically

Chad (02:47.106)

Kind of here for that. And then, you know, after the day, then you go party your ass off. So yes, you got to remember we are a work first culture.

Joel Cheesman (03:05.216)

tried to pump up and get people to, and we had free bourbon and that thing was a headache to get to people into. So, I can't even imagine, having something that people actually have to pay to go to and fly somewhere and take time off and do all that. head hats off to the gang at rec fest for doing that. It's a, it's awesome.

Chad (03:09.87)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (03:28.286)

Yeah, clearly. It's not. I'm so glad I'm in I'm in an age where the career change is not in the cards for me. I am pretty much sitting on my ass talking on a mic for the rest of my life.

Chad (03:29.166)

We're not event organizers.

Chad (03:40.494)

which is why we allow the pros to do what they do, because that's not our job.

Joel Cheesman (03:48.425)

I was.

Joel Cheesman (03:55.72)

All for Jeff? Yeah, it's a he's he's such a such a splash of cold water, I guess. Not in a bad way. He's so energetic, so passionate about what he's doing that you get so many founders today that are sort of

Chad (03:56.952)

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, so I had my interview with, with Jeff Taylor. You were in the, you were in the, in the, in the stands, let's say you're, you're in the audience. So what did you glean from that one? Are you ready? Are you, you locked and loaded for, for your interview at Eerie? Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (04:16.714)

just thoughtful and like, hushed tones and want to be very intelligent with what they say. And Jeff just like, no filter. Here's what you get. you asked him one question. He's like, so you're asking me to like answer for a company I wasn't at. Like he's even, he doesn't even try to give you the no answer, non answer thing. He just, he just tells you like, what's what. so it's, it's great. I feel like he's getting a little bit tired of talking about monster.

Chad (04:23.383)

Wake up.

Joel Cheesman (04:45.018)

that's sort of the, the unfortunate anchor that, he has to, has to, to carry for the rest of his life. that's just, it's like, it's like Johnny rotten getting mad about still talking about, you know, the sex pistols debut album. Like it's just what you're known for, dude. Sorry. Until you make the next, nevermind the bullocks. this is, this is what we're going to be talking about. So I'll try to, I'll try to branch out a little bit. the boom band thing he definitely wants to talk about.

Chad (05:01.774)

Too bad. Too bad.

Joel Cheesman (05:13.354)

But, it was great. think from what you talked about before the show looks like we'll probably publish that at some point. Maybe we'll have the Jeff Taylor week. we'll start with yours on Tuesday and maybe end with mine on Thanksgiving week or Christmas week or some week where no one's listening to the show. maybe we'll, we'll drop some Jeff Taylor stuff. Yeah, I did like, we had some great content on the disrupt stage. I mean, some great data that came out. It was fantastic. And some of those shows.

that we recorded on stage with them will be coming out. So be on the lookout. That was some really great, great stuff. yeah, Wreckfest was awesome. And as you'll find out in the travel here after shout outs, we're going to keep on the Wreckfest train and we'll see them in Nebworth before you know it. We'll see them in Nebworth.

Chad (05:47.136)

Never. That never happens. They're always listening. They're always listening.

God, it was great content. Yep.

Chad (06:04.43)

Agreed.

Joel Cheesman (06:06.198)

Yeah, it's a it's a meaty show to Yeah, two weeks off. We got some shit to talk about. But I, I as a Gen X or Chad, it's my right, I've earned this one. I got I'm going to give a shout out to MTV. I don't know if you heard this week, but they're finally saying goodbye to music. And a lot of their a lot of their other countries, they're gone. They've been doing music for a little bit. Now it's all like reality TV, but they've officially said no more music and and it's

Chad (06:10.542)

We got more.

Chad (06:15.362)

Mo Mo Mo with a rebel yell.

I'm good, I'm good. It's too meaty this week. It's too meaty this week. Yes.

Chad (06:31.01)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (06:34.728)

It's sad to me because MTV was such an integral part. I think of all of our lives. If you were a kid in the seventies came, you know, like a teen in the eighties, the, and with Halloween coming around, I mean, the thriller video, you know, the world premiere videos, seeing Madonna for the first time, seeing, seeing Nirvana for the first time guns and roses. Like you, there's something about.

Chad (06:58.158)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (07:04.521)

we would sit around with sit watching TV and we would be introduced to stuff we never thought we would listen to before. So maybe it's in living color, a bunch of black guys playing metal. Like what the hell is that? I don't get that on my local radio radio station. And they had shows like Yoem TV raps, a headbangers ball, 120 minutes, like all these shows that were curated with music that none of us knew, but we were all open to and introduced. And I feel like that's gone. I feel like

Chad (07:27.969)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (07:33.846)

All the content we get today is curated based on what you like. So you just get more of the same thing that you like and you're not introduced to new stuff. So I'm sad as a Gen Xer to see MTV go, but I think in a bigger perspective, what MTV brought people is gone. And I think that's a sad thing. Do you have a, I know no shout outs, but do you have an MTV moment when you were a kid or teenager that stood out?

Chad (07:36.302)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (08:06.356)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (08:15.278)

Oh, just being able to, okay, so as a kid with Gen X or growing up, we had radio, right? I mean, that was really our exposure to new music. And in Mansfield, Ohio, where I grew up, we had some really lame fucking radio stations. So we didn't get like the new stuff. MTV came, I saw Motley Crue, I'm like, holy fuck. There's no way I would have heard them on local radio, right? There are so many different bands.

Joel Cheesman (08:28.726)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (08:35.477)

Yeah.

Chad (08:43.244)

that we were exposed to in MTV really created a bridge to that new music that we would have never heard, right? New artists and really blew up new artists that we would have never heard from before. But then the internet came and the proliferation of being able to go and download music, right? Napster and those types of things that, I mean, that literally was the slow death for MTV. because they literally, they were bridging a gap. That gap didn't exist anymore.

Joel Cheesman (08:47.915)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (09:01.152)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (09:12.95)

That gap does not exist. Spotify, YouTube, anywhere on the internet, right? Yeah, some of it's curated, but some of it you actually go out and seek out because you really like those like playlists on Spotify. So love MTV. It's an integral part of our growing up, just like HBO was. But it's time has come and gone. Yeah, it's come and gone. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (09:15.702)

Skinamax, Skinamax. Yeah, flipping the channels between Skinamax and MTV late at night on Saturday. mean, NWA, Billy Ray Cyrus, like stuff that you never would have listened to ever. Well, what my point is, with radio, you listen to your radio station, did like, NWA was not on the pop station and vice versa. And MTV was the first time that all stuff cut across.

Chad (09:39.982)

Yeah. Yes, we've never gotten. I would have gotten, I would have gotten Billy Ray in Mansfield, but not not fucking NWA. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (09:43.99)

Remember the MTV music awards? Like that was like the Super Bowl for us. Like that was a huge thing and all that's dead. And it's just sad. It's just sad. It's just sad. It's sad. makes me want free stuff. It makes me want free booze.

Chad (09:55.246)

I don't know. Or the country. Yeah.

Yep. yeah. For music, Who was? It's just sad. All right, no, it's not sad. That's exactly right. Yes, because if you go to ChadCheese.com slash free and register, you could prospectively win a free t-shirt. Our new design as an homage to Motley Crue's Dr. Feelgood. These t-shirts are soft, supple.

Joel Cheesman (10:08.63)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (10:21.686)

Clearly still recuperating for breakfast, Chad. It's okay. We're going to give you some grace on, on this one.

Chad (10:27.998)

And much like hiring Mike or hugging Mike, should say, not hiring, hiring, hugging or doing whatever you want with Mike over at Aaron app, because he'll allow it. If anybody will allow or it'd be Mike from Aaron app. Free whiskey, two bottles of chicken cock whiskey from our Canadian tech experts over at Van Hack. This is a good time for them.

Joel Cheesman (10:36.244)

Yes it is.

Chad (10:52.578)

I mean, they are getting amazing talent up north because we're shedding it here in the US. So take a look at Van Hack, free beer a box delivered to your doorstep, the craft beer from the job data geeks over at Aspen Tech Labs. Once again, go to ChadCheese.com slash free. Register, if you don't register, you don't play, you can't win.

Joel Cheesman (10:58.122)

You gotta be in it to win it, Chad.

Joel Cheesman (11:07.702)

freestyle. Well, you were on the rec fest stage without me. So I mean, you kind of broke the seal you you drew your first blood. So here we go. Yeah, I'm going to be at I'm going to be at Erie in San Diego. November 4th and fifth is that conference learn more at er.net. So you got you got you got Jeff warmed up and I'm the I'm the main event. Thanks for warming them up. I'll finish the job and do what I'm supposed to do. But doing that in San Diego.

Chad (11:16.782)

You're doing a solo. You're doing a free solo event without me. I don't know if I should cry or not. that's a point. That's a good point. My fault. My fault.

Joel Cheesman (11:35.38)

And then guess I'm going back to San Diego quickly thereafter. What the hell's going on there?

Chad (11:42.957)

Yeah.

Chad (11:54.466)

Yeah, but before that, mean, the road show, the Chad Cheese Road Show at RL100, where do we start? We start in the streets of San Francisco. Then we go to San Diego. Then we go to Dallas. So if you don't know kids, the RL100 shows are curated for small group, high level practitioners who are looking for answers and sharing best practices. So if you're a director, VP of talent acquisition or chief people officer,

Joel Cheesman (12:10.144)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (12:20.908)

You've got to be in the room where it happens. That's in San Francisco on November 13th, San Diego on November 18th and Dallas on November 20th. to ChadCheese.com and click the register right in the hero image. Click on topics and speakers. See who's going to be there. See what we're talking about. And this, this event is always a blast. So looking forward to seeing you there.

Joel Cheesman (12:28.758)

Yeah. I love these say we're going to be in the streets because that's where we're from baby. Sesame street more like it, but here we go. Haven't been to San Francisco in a while. I'm excited to get to go back. I mean, it's been years. It's been years pre COVID probably. All right guys. Fantasy football, week six is in the books as we go into week seven. thanks to our friends at factory fix for sponsoring this. Here's your, here's your work first to worst, list. got Courtney Nappo, Mackenzie Maitland, your boy right here is the bronze medal at number three.

Chad (12:54.698)

All right,

Joel Cheesman (12:58.742)

followed by Jada Weiler, Stephen McGrath talking shit and kicking our asses. He beat you by like two tenths of a point or something last week. Yeah. mean, mean, yeah. I'm playing Yahoo. yeah. Speaking of MTV, Yahoo. all right. So

Chad (12:59.63)

Mmm.

Chad (13:15.246)

Mmm.

Chad (13:23.566)

Point one six point what what fucking football? Scoring system has fractional points Yahoo. That's who it is fucking Yahoo

Joel Cheesman (13:25.91)

Uh, David Stiefel last year's winner at number is in sixth place. William Carrick Carrington, uh, Megan Ratigan, Jason Putnam. You're at the 10th spot. Number 10, uh, ginger Dodds. speaking of the streets, uh, look who's in the gutter again. Uh, that would be one Jeremy Roberts. How the hell Texas still lets them live. There is beyond me, but yeah.

Chad (13:50.977)

sucking.

Joel Cheesman (13:52.25)

He is. He's looking good. Didn't he make a comment about you should cover your head with a hat? Was that him? Cause he wears that flat that like that Irish whatever hat. Yeah. Yeah. Jeremy's like, Jeremy's looking good. raises chickens and shit. He's a, he's a, he's a new Renaissance kind of guy, man. I don't know. Eating his own eggs. I don't know what the fuck is going on. If he, if he gets laid off, it's not a problem, but for the, for some other people's Chad.

Chad (14:02.114)

He's looking good though. saw him at Wreckfest. He's looking good. So that's half the battle. Now just take some time and get your team pulled together. And I shouldn't be talking shit. I'm at fucking number 10.

Chad (14:15.608)

yeah. Hey, yeah, yeah. Cause, cause we, yeah, we both have the same hairstyle. Yeah. So he's awesome.

Joel Cheesman (14:20.086)

Oh shit. We got some layoffs to talk about, both industry wide and not so here. So just when he thought it was safe to go back in the water, Nestle layoffs 16,000, largely automation based our friends at Metta are laying off 600, mostly in the super intelligence initiative. Even though a new story says they're paying up to 290,000 for entry level roles in AI and VR in our space, Paycom 500 people laid off handshake.

Chad (14:35.342)

jeez. God. Jesus. Here we go.

Chad (14:43.598)

Mmm.

Joel Cheesman (14:48.278)

A hundred folks, uh, and even app cast is saying goodbye to 32 of their employees. And that's after layoffs at zip recruiter and fiber last month, Chad, a lot of pink slips, your thoughts.

Chad (14:58.434)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (15:13.29)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (15:15.224)

Mm-hmm.

Well, I'll dig into more of this when we get into the economy block that we're doing, but I do have a good idea. And I talked to the guys over at JobGet about this. Handshake is falling on hard times. Okay. They're getting rid of people. Their CEO is saying that they are adjusting or they're pivoting into more AI centric technology. And I think because JobGets been acquiring, right? I think JobGets should acquire Handshake and then

Joel Cheesman (15:38.548)

All right. I'm going to give you an applause on that one. That's not too bad. Handjob. Yep. Well done. So wash well done. And are you dropping the mic? Is that all your comments about layoffs are good. Thank you very much everybody. Yeah. it's, automation baby. I mean, Facebook looks like a lot of people that were doing the Oculus stuff.

Chad (15:47.672)

Flip the brand, pivot the brand, handjob.com. Huh? Huh? Huh? Okay. Okay.

Joel Cheesman (16:01.558)

are gone. Um, they're doing more with less. They're pitching. is like, need fewer teams. need fewer developers. Like that's just kind of the case. They, they seem to be getting like, if you're really high level, you're good. But if you're that sort of middle tier developer, like you're, you're shut out of luck. Um, the Nestle stuff, I thought it all going to be people like wrapping KitKats and stirring chocolate or like what

Chad (16:02.606)

You're welcome. You're welcome.

I'm done. I'm out.

Chad (16:21.646)

Imagine that.

Joel Cheesman (16:26.888)

It was mostly white collar jobs at Nestle. I was kind of surprised by that, but they are, you know, quote unquote, you know, evolving to a new reality and that's affecting a ton of white collar positions. Paycom as well. Yeah. do what?

Chad (16:33.486)

could be fucked.

Chad (16:57.656)

I think they've already automated that other stuff out.

Joel Cheesman (16:59.988)

I agree. Clearly we're seeing that, but I was just surprised because most of their people, like they have a ton of people working those jobs, a lot fewer white collar jobs. So was just surprised to see that the majority was there. Paycom is mostly engineering positions. If you look at their data on LinkedIn, they need fewer developers as well. Just like Facebook handshake is fucked. mean, how many of you are like internships or they're not dead, but they're down.

Chad (17:03.64)

I think they've already automated all that other stuff out. Like the production side of the house, I think that's already been automated. So now they're turning their eyesight to the white color side of the house because they've already automated on the manufacturing side.

Chad (17:24.142)

Mm, yeah. 16,000, ooh, ooh.

Joel Cheesman (17:28.758)

10, 25 % internships are hurting entry level jobs are hurting companies are doing less sort of events for entry level jobs. That's obviously going to kick them in the nuts. Their whole like LinkedIn killer initiative from a year or so ago, I'm sure has died like everyone else's LinkedIn killer has has died. Abcast was interesting because there's they're usually put on a pedestal in terms of like the gold standard for programmatic. But as we learned at rec fest, if you can

Chad (17:31.566)

Mm.

Chad (17:50.338)

Hmm.

Joel Cheesman (17:57.63)

If you can loosely say LinkedIn and Indeed are like 80 % of your recruiting ad spend, that 20 % lays in the programmatic realm for a lot of people. And we heard a lot of talk about cutting budgets for Indeed and LinkedIn. So if they're getting cut, imagine what that 20 % of programmatic is going through. So I think they're facing a lot of challenges as well in the programmatic market.

Chad (18:00.332)

Bleh.

Joel Cheesman (18:28.416)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (18:38.796)

Well, we talked about Dalia. We're actually on stage with Shay, who was talking about the tech stack that they put together and how they've been able to increase their conversions dramatically by using Dalia. But the big key to that is, and I think this is where a lot of these companies really need to start driving and focusing on candidate rediscovery.

Because a lot of these companies understand, shit, I've got hundreds of thousands or millions of candidates in the database. I'm going to go there first. I've already paid for these people. We're going to keep them warm. We're going to engage them. We're going to give them content. We're going to do all this stuff. But I don't need to spend that kind of cash on LinkedIn and Indeed. I think it was over a million dollars, $1.5 million that was saved in six months. So that's a lot of cash.

Joel Cheesman (19:10.4)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (19:14.282)

Buys a lot of beer.

Chad (19:32.066)

That's a lot of cash for one company to save in six months. So I'm pretty excited to see what happens because this should be a pivot for most organizations conversion to be able to get more of those individuals coming to your site because they care about you and then being able to engage them, keep them warm, and then get them hired when you're ready for

Joel Cheesman (19:34.122)

Yeah. Dare I say that companies aren't falling for the banana in the tailpipe anymore. we're hearing more and more. I mean, Megan Radigan talking about optimizing for Google for jobs. mean, companies are just getting wise, wise to other ways to get candidates. And it's very refreshing. Let's get to topics.

Chad (19:55.286)

They have been for like 20 years. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (19:57.046)

So much meat this week. All right. A few stories set off the bullshit meter recently. Facebook jobs are back again after launching jobs in 2017 and phasing it out in 2023. Not to be outdone, X is getting rid of its jobs tab after launching its quote unquote LinkedIn killer, Dub X hiring back in 23. A Metaview billboard.

Chad (20:01.25)

Yep, love that, love that.

Chad (20:07.032)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (20:17.271)

Everywhere, everywhere.

Chad (20:24.511)

Mm, okay.

Joel Cheesman (20:24.586)

that reads quote, says hiring has to be fair? Meta view unfairly effective AI built for recruiting end quote caught Chad's eye as well. and this video of ad Zuna explaining their new search caught our attention as well. Check it out.

Joel Cheesman (21:06.326)

Because every search is exactly what you're looking for. No filler at all in your job searches.

Joel Cheesman (21:19.574)

All right, the bullshit meter is about to explode for Chad, but so much meat this week. What stood out to you, Chad, with all that insanity?

Chad (21:26.85)

Biggest upgrade. Biggest upgrade. my God. Stop it, my brain's hurting.

Look at God. Jesus.

Joel Cheesman (21:40.479)

Hahaha

That's the open AI porn segment at the end of the show, Chad. Don't jump ahead to the bukkake yet.

Chad (21:45.494)

Fairly simple. mean roll down through real quick X jobs told you so wasn't gonna happen couldn't happen. They bought Lasky the CEO Chris Bukaki, whatever his name was he left the He left left the company earlier this year. Okay, my bad my bad my bad Yeah, the Facebook thing. I mean This is this is really hard Facebook marketplace is a very Craigslist kind of platform

But like we've seen with Facebook's first try, several attempts by Google, Twitter's utter failure on the job site. Why are all these mega successful brands with loads of cash failing over and over over and over? Well, it's pretty simple. Lack of focus. The job market is, it's a big ticket item for vendors dedicated to this space, but it's a minuscule to companies like Facebook, Google, and Twitter. So they allocate resources thinking it's easy money.

Joel Cheesman (22:23.968)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (22:44.406)

make big proclamations and then shut it down because the business is hard. This is hard business and it won't generate the revenue like cloud computing or broad based advertising. So this attempt fades away like Google base does. mean, so, you know, X and X and Facebook, they're going to have bigger fish to fry and they're just not going to have enough resources to be able to apply to this. I'll get to add to in a minute. Go ahead. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (22:51.062)

Elon's got bigger problems than job postings for sure that he has to focus on.

Joel Cheesman (23:07.264)

Hit me.

Chad (23:15.014)

Adzuna? my God. So before getting into Adzuna, I'd like to talk about two big problems I see from founders and or CEOs. Number one, they can't see the forest for the trees, which means they're way too embedded in their own ecosystem to solve a certain problem. Number two, while in that forest, they're overindulging on their own Kool-Aid, which means they've fallen in love with the product they've created instead of falling in love with the problem they're trying to solve.

I see both things here happening with the ZUNA. This new solution, quote unquote solution, is half-baked at best. In this day and age, why would you work on a job search without matching on the employer side where the actual revenue happens? These things should be happening together. At ZUNA, should be focused on delivering cost per qualified candidate or candidate qualified slates. It's simple. You extract the requirements from the

start the actual job posting itself, match those requirements against your database and start delivering qualified candidates instead of meaningless CPC and CPA. This feels like ZipRecruiter's fill without a dumb white guy name attached to it. but last but not least for those founders and CEO, when someone with tons of experience from this industry gives you feedback, shut up and take notes.

Joel Cheesman (24:25.152)

That's the best advice you've ever given.

Joel Cheesman (24:30.088)

In short, listen to old guys everybody. We know a thing or two.

Okay, I'll give you a break. You're clearly a little of a clipped from that from that topic. Totally agree with X wasn't gonna happen was not going to get Ilan's attention. He had a little bit of he had a little bump of we're gonna kill LinkedIn and what we're what we're coming up with is gonna destroy like they all get into this and get out. Now, Facebook is interesting. Like why? Zuckerberg loves like killing stuff.

Chad (24:43.768)

Fuck, it's crazy, it's crazy. then, go ahead. Jesus Christ.

Chad (24:53.058)

Yeah, I'll get to Metaview. You talk now. I'll get to Metaview later because this is a lesson. This is a lesson, yes.

Joel Cheesman (25:05.622)

throwing it away and not coming back to come back to jobs is really interesting to me. So, so I have three, I have three ideas of why Facebook or Metta brought back jobs. Okay. No, number one, appeal to young people. They're spinning. This is like young people having a hard time getting a job entry level jobs. Now, if we start seeing ads like, kids, come to Facebook, we have jobs for you. Then I'll kind of believe that.

Chad (25:26.924)

It is.

Joel Cheesman (25:34.398)

that idea better. Number two is the PR is good. It's a, it's a layup, right? Like if anyone like Facebook, we're trying to help kids get jobs. The young people need support. We're here to help the third, which I think is the most interesting or likely, and maybe I'm reaching here and I know that you'll tell me if I am or not. I think Zuckerberg

hates Apple and hates Google and hates the iPhone and hates the properties that Google has. Remember when Facebook had the Facebook phone and it was all Facebook and they had like the F logo as the button that failed obviously. But I think in the back of Zuck's mind, he wants to like have a device that will appeal to a lot of people. So I know you guys are poo poo in the glasses.

Chad (26:21.742)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (26:23.956)

And that's okay. As the one as the lone glass wearer on the show, the display stuff is interesting. You could, have a wristband, you control it, basically control the screen with your hand. We've talked about jobs and we've seen apps before where you're walking down the street, augmented reality, Starbucks is hiring, click here, apply now. I think that the job data helps in that glasses idea of saying like, Hey, meta.

Chad (26:25.414)

yeah.

Chad (26:40.566)

You

Joel Cheesman (26:54.146)

is, this business hiring and better will know where you are and they'll say, yes, here's a job. Do you want to apply now? Like, yes. And it will apply. Like, so I think it's a little layer of data for AI and the glasses that Facebook can sort of easily add into its product, glass display. That's my, my three theories on Facebook, bringing jobs back for the kids. Just like, just like Wu Tang number two, good PR.

And number three, the display glasses. I think that's why jobs are back. Your take, am I off?

Okay.

Joel Cheesman (27:39.091)

Here we go.

Chad (27:44.226)

I think there's going to, I think there's, I'm I'm going come in on one of those and that's the goal and that's the glasses. I think there's going to be what they're going to be used more for than jobs. I don't think jobs are going to be, there's going to be an app where you can pretty much see everybody naked. And, that's, that's going to be the app that everybody uses. mean, you know, the jobs app, they're, they're going to find different ways. Yes. The x-ray glasses. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (27:50.056)

It's like, it's like the car. Remember the comic books when we were growing up, it would have like the X-ray glasses and the guy like.

Joel Cheesman (28:00.163)

my god, my god.

Chad (28:14.52)

They're real. They're now real. Okay. Yeah. So.

Chad (28:22.466)

So the meta view thing, and this is literally a lesson to CEOs with regard to advertising, right? Because most CEOs, founders, they have no fucking clue about advertising. They use these ad groups in some cases that are not steeped in our space and they do stupid shit like this. So I was in broadcast media.

Joel Cheesman (28:24.564)

Yep. Yep.

Chad (28:45.538)

before coming into this industry and I sold against billboards and even integrated billboards into client campaigns. So when I saw this, had two major issues. Number one, you have to know your medium. The average time spent viewing a billboard in the US is about four to six seconds. In four to six seconds, you need to, the reader to read the ad, duh, make sure the, or actually make sense of the ad and then associate that ad with your brand. And size matters.

And the logo is about as big as Trump's dick on the most recent South Park episodes. Okay. It's very, it's, very small, very small, which means the tagline, which is just as small, unfairly, effective AI built for recruiting is totally lost. Number two, know your audience. The main segment of, for this ad says, who says hiring has to be fair? Okay. So.

Dei has been assaulted and your target market is mainly female Do you really want your target audience who works within a crazy unfair system to associate that message? With MetaView your brand no you don't so that's my critique. Here's what I do I would do differently so I don't want to just shit on it I want to be able to give them here's what I would do differently and actually Doing that's exactly right and I have

Joel Cheesman (29:43.38)

Yeah. Okay. good. Not just criticism on the show, actionable items to help you solve the problem. All right, here we go.

Chad (30:10.946)

basic knowledge, practical knowledge about this, because I've done it before. So that's my critique. Here's my redesign. The main and only message that should read on this billboard, effective AI built for recruiting with a big ass Metaview logo and a URL underneath the logo, right? Why? Everyone currently is enamored with AI. So make AI the star instead of your douchebag anti-fairness messaging, right?

Joel Cheesman (30:21.707)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (30:38.892)

Associate AI with your big ass brand and name. This uses the keep it simple stupid methodology, especially when you only have four to six seconds to effectively communicate a message and tie your brand to it. So hopefully the Metafu executives and other executives that are out there who might be using different types of media, they won't waste, I don't know, $35 million in funding on garbage like this.

Joel Cheesman (30:49.012)

marketing vice on Chad and cheese. Everybody come on. What, what, else can you get? yeah. So I'll chime in here real quick. I agree with your, your analysis of billboards should be quick. Like it shouldn't, it should be, keep it simple. Like don't make me think. the only time I've seen these really work in our space is when it's at like a big sherm show or HR tech where it's combined with

Chad (31:08.952)

And you're welcome.

Joel Cheesman (31:15.476)

the imaging at the booth or maybe you're having an event and it's all sort of, it's all sort of consistent. Yeah. Maybe it's at the airport when you're checking in, you see an ad, then you see a billboard, then you see the booth. all helps solidify the message. didn't, you said that you thought this was Chicago, that you saw the, the, billboard. Yeah. So the, the only way this even comes close is if it's like near the Nashville airport, where people would see it going into, into rec fast, but even then it's a stretch.

Chad (31:20.517)

yeah. Has to be.

Chad (31:35.16)

or at the airport.

Joel Cheesman (31:45.526)

Billboards are expensive. Uh, I mean, they were expensive back when you were slinging it and they're expensive now. So why would you do it? Are you, is it a big sales initiative? If this is Chicago, like Chicago is our big market. Is it we're really well known in the UK. We know that like bright hire, for example, is a little more entrenched in the U S so this is our statement to say that we're here. Um, we really don't know. And the, the, there's been no PR about here's our

Chad (31:49.708)

I think it might have been. was in the US, but I think it was in Chicago, I think.

Joel Cheesman (32:12.8)

campaign and we're rolling this out and here's what it's about and here's the cities that we're doing it in. This just seems like a random, let's just put a billboard up in Chicago. So unless there's any other insight, it seems like an ego play or I just want our brand in Chicago or wherever it is. So I agree that I don't, I don't see how it works with the way that we saw it how it was presented on the ad Zuna front. How like

Tell me how good your search is, but let me like make me put in my email address eight times before I can actually apply to one of the jobs that I see in my search results. And then and then like trick me into thinking something's a result, but it's actually an ad for zip recruiter that takes me over there. And then I got to give them my email address before I can apply to that job. Like the user the user experience is so bad on

so many of these sites that it doesn't matter if your shit is better. I hate being on it. I'm only on it because I'm unemployed and I feel like I have to be on it. Like if it was a joy to be on these sites, great. Take away the ads, take away the friction. Let me see the new search. Let me be awed by that. And it's great. like until these businesses figure out like we're not just a funnel for email addresses so we can spam you for the rest of your life. Like I'm not interested. I don't.

I don't really care. don't really care. I won't even get into the whole like agents are going to be agents and people aren't even going to search anymore. This is it's just the experience is so bad on these sites and it's sad. It's sad.

Joel Cheesman (33:52.596)

But when it's delivered with an English accent, it's that much better. Everybody, it goes down that much better. Let's take a.

Chad (34:04.782)

This one just half baked that in my personal opinion, it's half baked.

Chad (34:13.998)

Well, not only that, it wasn't even rolled out initially in the US. It's like, what, okay, okay, whatever, yeah. Why don't you get ready first? Why don't you get your fucking product ready and roll it out? As opposed to this bullshit, kind of like, and this is, I see why Google rolls shit out because they have, obviously, governments that are looking at them constantly. Nobody even knows who the fuck Ed Zuna is. Roll that, get it ready.

Joel Cheesman (34:22.23)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (34:25.845)

Right.

Joel Cheesman (34:35.946)

Red, white and blue chat is in the house and in full effect and I'm here for it everybody. Let's take a quick break and we'll get more.

Chad (34:43.82)

and roll it out, right? Again, very half-baked. Not just from a tech side, but from a plan side. Go to Market Sucks, you guys really need help.

Joel Cheesman (34:47.67)

Yern for Euro Chad. All right, Chad, a whole lot of money going on up in here. Robotics company Armstrong has raised 12 million to develop AI powered robots for restaurant kitchens, starting with the dish washing. Jack and Jill, a new platform using conversational AI for the job seeker side has raised 20 million in funding. Find them. I don't even know them. Raise 51 million in funding, bringing its total to $105 million.

Chad (34:54.764)

Hahaha!

Chad (35:02.37)

I yearn for Euro, Chad.

Joel Cheesman (35:16.362)

The funds will be used to develop AI and support global growth. raised 300 million in a series E funding round totaling 1.3 billion and valuing the company at $17.3 billion. Way to go, DEEL. Way to go. The company plans to use the funds to recruit AI talent, develop a priority systems.

and expand its global reach through strategic acquisitions. Interesting. And speaking of acquisitions, Chad, Deel bought Omnipresent, while our friends at Humanly have gobbled up Qualify, Sprockets, and Our Work. The cash register is definitely ringing on this one, Chad. What are your thoughts on all the money getting thrown around in our industry?

Chad (36:19.778)

Yeah, I'm to try to consolidate around all of them in one fell swoop. Companies receiving funding today remind me of when chat bots were gaining steam and receiving cash. Remember, Maya Systems, Allyo, and Paradox. Maya raised $65 million, Allyo raised $64 million, and both sold on the clearance rack to StepSone and HireVue. On the other hand, Paradox, friend of the show, went

on to win big deals, receive over $250 million in funding, and sell to Workday for well over a billion dollars. Other than the sale price, what was the difference between Maya, Allyo, and Paradox? Well, it was focus and discipline. Both Maya and Allyo were all over the board, opening up TAM too fast, chasing revenues from everyone, everywhere, while Paradox smartly honed their product for a specific market segment

high volume hiring. I see the same happening today with many of these companies like Findem, like all of the names that you mentioned. Many of these startups will receive great amounts of funding, but it's the same as it ever was. The ones who identify specific problems and slowly increase total addressable market will dominate those who open the TAM too fast and chase all the business.

So the question is, will these companies, again, one by one, which ones are gonna win, which ones are gonna lose, it's gonna take time. I mean, through the acquisitions or through actually getting money, acquisition's an entirely different kind of conversation because you have all these different technologies. Do they fit within the actual total addressable market that you're already serving? That's one question, or does it actually bump it out and increase it? And do you have the resources and funds to be able to support that versus,

Did I just get a ton of money and am I gonna go spend on stupid billboards in Chicago or opening the TAM too fast, right? So these are the things that we really should be looking at, not just as analysts in the space ourselves, but also as companies, they're looking to do some type of due diligence. On the Deel side, these guys are looking to IPO. They've taken way too much fucking money. They've got an IPO. Who's gonna do it first, Rippling or Deel?

Joel Cheesman (38:27.158)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (38:33.45)

So much money and now food, I love it.

Um, by the way, on the meta view, sorry to go back to that. Uh, and some of my, my homework, they're not buying keywords on Google. Like if you search interview intelligence or AI source, some of the things they do, like that seems like a much smarter way to spend money. But anyway, let's get to, uh, get to the, the, the, rounds here. Uh, Veritone also raised 25 million recently. Like let's throw in another friend of the show that's raised money. Uh, yeah, a lot of, a lot of money being raised. So, uh, is Jack and I'm surprised.

Chad (38:43.692)

And then Armstrong will leave that for the Taco Bell discussion that we're going to have. I will at least.

Ugh.

Chad (39:04.428)

Really? Okay.

Joel Cheesman (39:07.414)

This was a meatball, Wade and Wendy and Jack and Jill. Like that shit just writes itself. I mean, this is like, let's just repackage it for another company that'll be acquired at some point down the road from the TJ Maxx clearance rack. This Jack and Jill is so ridiculous. So you, you, talk to your computer about what you kind of what you want. Like, Hey, I want to stay in Toledo. I'm a sales guy, whatever it is. Right. And then it says,

Chad (39:08.972)

You think. Yeah, you think.

Chad (39:15.99)

shit, I didn't even know that.

Chad (39:21.976)

stock went up like 70%.

Joel Cheesman (39:37.16)

Okay, great. I'll search the web for jobs and then get this. It'll email you when, when jobs that you want are available and then you can go apply to those jobs. So how is that different than using my fingers to search like sales jobs in Toledo and then, and then signing up for email alerts on whatever job board that I'm on. It's just a new interface that I talked to.

Chad (39:45.824)

huh.

Joel Cheesman (40:04.669)

It's how from 2001 as opposed to like typing. So I don't know how the hell they got $20 million for that. I guess for recruiters, go, I'm looking for salespeople in Toledo. Great. We'll search candidates, da da da. And then we'll email you whatever there's new ones that come up. So I, don't get that at all. Again, it's delivered with an English accent. So you feel a little better about it when you, when you waste money. but, but that's, that's what that is. by the way,

Chad (40:11.726)

It's the Save Job Search.

It's not.

night.

Chad (40:24.76)

So bad. So bad.

Joel Cheesman (40:29.854)

Zipper Cruder hasn't really hit a home run with Phil, which is their kind of like face to job search. maybe, I don't know if Jill is that much better or Jack, the whole find them thing that blows me away that they've raised that much money. and they've been around since 19. So, I mean, the clock's ticking, but, but the whole, like, I call it the Intello 2.0 trend. Yeah. All these companies like

Chad (40:36.526)

Mm.

Chad (40:45.39)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (40:55.38)

The sourcing is there, but then we'll have agents or we'll automate the outreach and getting your ATS. Like that's the part that's new, but whether it's find them perfect juice box, like what it's all it's in Tello and hiring solved and a higher tool. Like it's just a new generation. don't know. I don't know why people are these new people in recruiting that don't know about those companies and they go, yeah, let's source people in.

Chad (41:01.293)

a lot of cash.

Chad (41:09.486)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (41:24.564)

And then we can have agents contact like the money these guys are getting. don't, I don't, I don't think it's justified. I don't know where that's coming from. So anyway, the, the, think that's going to end badly for most of those, Deel an omnipresent. What a throw away fucking, like that's just nothing. omnipresent, two years ago.

employed 315 people. They turned that into half as many people two years later. Uh, so this was just like a sinking ship. If you go to the URL for omnipresent, it just redirects to Deel. So it wasn't even like, Hey, we're now acquired by Deel or like, or omnipresent by Deel. Like, fuck it. Let's just redirect it to Deel. We don't need to muscle all the other shit. Um, I do, I do wonder, you mentioned the IPO thing with Deel.

Chad (41:58.126)

Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (42:17.186)

And I thought about this after the Ashby raise. Ashby got a ton of money and we were like, they got to go public. There's no way that they can raise more money. And more and more when you look at Stripe, when you look at, at some of the companies on Silicon Valley AI, right. Open AI that have raised so much money and they don't go public. I understand why they don't go public because it's a pain in the ass, but the new model seems to be. Let's let's give our previous.

Chad (42:19.64)

Simple. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (42:44.296)

investors, a liquidation event, let's pay them. And instead of going public, like let's have another round of like this huge raise. So I would argue almost that this means that Deel is less likely to IPO because it looks like they got a chunk of money. Let's pay off our old investors. Let's get our employees some money and then let's hold off on the IPO a little bit longer. I would say rippling has a better chance of, of doing the IPO thing in the next 12 months than Deel. But I think

Chad (42:48.536)

Hmm, yeah.

Joel Cheesman (43:14.708)

The whole trend of don't go public, just raise another big round of money is filtering down into our space. I think this, think Ashby was one. I think this is probably another example.

Joel Cheesman (43:28.981)

now.

Chad (43:42.466)

Yeah, Ashby hasn't taken close to the amount of money these guys have. I gotta say though, we've talked about it before. If you're first to the battlefield, you're most likely to die, right? And I think the Intello is the talent band and I can't remember what they were all talent rediscovery, right? We had a bunch of talent rediscovery platforms that were happening, you know, close to five, 10 years ago. It's now starting to be in fashion and people are building and they're starting to,

Joel Cheesman (43:45.963)

Yeah.

Chad (44:12.364)

building it into their stack. So I think the likelihood of the Intello's, unfortunately, Intello was probably about five years too early. Those things are moving forward and I think they're, literally going to start and they have already started being embedded into platforms. So what's the likelihood? The likelihood is much higher than what it was five years ago. So hopefully we're ready because you got to remember HR adopts slowly and is it time? Who knows? We'll see.

Joel Cheesman (44:23.434)

Yeah.

Good point. somewhat one of these companies needs to come to me and say, here's how we're getting our data. And that data has to not include LinkedIn because LinkedIn does not like that. I don't know how Seek Out has survived this long. Where are they getting this data? How did they get their data? And so on and so on. Because

LinkedIn, LinkedIn is the directory of record. And until somebody tells me there's something different that's better or not pulling from LinkedIn, it's hard to imagine. Like I get the, we'll go into your ATS. Like I think that was a, a model that was tried. didn't work, but, yeah, somebody needs to convince me the agent thing I can buy, but the whole like sourcing where are you getting the data? Is the data clean? Is it not going to be, killed two years later because high Q and all the other companies at LinkedIn.

Chad (45:02.434)

They only need it once.

Joel Cheesman (45:15.638)

killed who I can't say that this is going to just be a new batch of companies that are going to get killed by LinkedIn two to three years from

Joel Cheesman (45:27.862)

So how do you keep it fresh? keep, I...

Mm-hmm.

Chad (45:40.002)

Yeah, these data warehouses, they've already scraped LinkedIn and that was years ago, right? So maybe some of the new data, not so much. Well, if you have the information, number one, and you're a company and they have applied to your company, there's some kind of connection that's there. That's where rediscovery comes in, right? So yeah, I mean, I don't like when a lot of these companies say, well, yeah, I mean, we've got a database of, you know, over 300 million people. It's like, where the fuck did you get that? It was a data warehouse, right?

Joel Cheesman (46:02.294)

and are they all pulling from the same place? Is somebody different? Like no one comes out and says we're different because of X. It's just like we have all this people in our database.

Chad (46:09.122)

That's much different than something that's already in somebody's database where somebody has like a connection to them where they've applied once or they've gone through the process. But yeah, yeah, it's a...

Chad (46:23.811)

probably.

Joel Cheesman (46:24.522)

Chad, do remember when we talked about Taco Bell getting trolled by people ordering 18,000 waters? Well, they've apparently solved some of that problem. This was their leadership on CNBC recently. Check out this update.

Chad (46:27.32)

I have to ask Jeff Taylor when he's on stage with you because he pulled data from six, seven different sources.

Hahaha

Chad (46:44.162)

Yes.

Chad (46:49.635)

water.

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (47:28.406)

It's a fun outlier. It's a fun outlier. And we also have White Castle, not one of your favorites, but one of mine. They've, they've launched a totally, almost totally autonomous, autonomous version in Ohio. So I guess so long drive through jobs and other jobs in the fast food restaurant. But what else is cracking in the economy? I hear you asking Chad. Well, hamburger helper, a staple of the seventies. I have my own stories that I'll share. Sales are up 14%.

Chad (47:43.756)

It's an outlier. It's an outlier. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (47:55.798)

Shipping freight rates are up 20 % within CNBC highlighting one carrier being hit with a $34 million tariff bill. And subprime car loans that are 60 days or more late is currently worse than during the past three recessions. I'm talking COVID, I'm talking the Great Recession, and I'm talking the dot com bus. Chad, what's your take on the economy?

Chad (48:30.19)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (48:36.494)

So fast food, this is moving toward fully automated and it's gonna be take away. There's not gonna be a scenario where you sit down with the family in the restaurant and have a meal. It's not gonna happen anymore kids, especially with fast food. And this is the way to actually get there. On the freight side of the house, I mean, you mentioned it, tariffs, tariffs, tariffs. mean, the Logistic Management Index has key indicators of which ocean freight,

warehousing, inventory and trucking are the most key of those indicators and they are all at record lows from September. A month where we should see rise but tariffs are rising prices, wages are down, people can't afford as much so less products are obviously needed and if all of that is happening it's going to create less jobs. I mean that's how it's going to impact us, period, right? And we know all of this especially from

Joel Cheesman (49:21.6)

Mm-hmm.

Joel Cheesman (49:28.594)

my god.

Chad (49:32.844)

the standpoint of inflation and rising prices and lower wages because hamburger helper is on the rise, as you had said. Something that we both probably had a lot of in the 70s and 80s. But the average price of meat has inflated 13 % over the last year. During times of high inflation, like the 70s when we grew up, families turned to cheaper ways to feed their families.

Joel Cheesman (49:59.998)

Yeah, I hate hamburger helper and I hated it back then. when mom, when I saw that box, the hamburger helper, remember the ads that had little hand and it would talk to mom and be like, Hey, I'm here to fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. I hamburger helper was, was a metaphor for shit's bad and it's, it was awful then and I would cry and my dad, true story, my dad would put salt.

Chad (50:00.364)

Like hamburger helper, which stretches a smaller amount of meat into more of a meal. and this is just more proof of the K shaped economy where Americans are struggling to put meat on the fucking table.

Chad (50:19.746)

I do too. I do too. I do too.

Chad (50:27.682)

Yeah. I'm like, fuck off.

Joel Cheesman (50:29.286)

on the hamburger helper to like make it taste better. But the salt would just like burn my like inside of my mouth. So I would cry more because it was like dad feeding me toxic waste on my shitty hamburger helper. Sorry, sorry. how did we get here? Okay. I'll make it easy. Gold does not increase over 50 % in a year when things are okay. things are not good.

Chad (50:35.372)

Ugh.

Joel Cheesman (50:57.302)

And in the back of, in the backdrop of all this, we have, we have King, uh, King diarrhea in the F 15, um, like building a new ballroom, tearing down the East wing of the white house to do it. Is that good optics? Like, I don't think so. Uh, the New York mayoral race mom, the mom, mom, Donnie phenomenon is because young people in particular are sick of this shit. Um,

Chad (51:02.595)

so bad.

Chad (51:11.106)

Yes, exactly.

Joel Cheesman (51:26.734)

And 26 is going to be loco, dude. The midterm elections, this ballroom won't be finished yet. It's going to be like a visual bookmark of how fucked up the administration has been. Unless something really changes drastically, Trump's numbers are in the toilet. Like even stuff he was decent on, he's underwater. Buckle up, kids. The economy, the politics, the geopolitical shit, it's only going to get

Chad (51:30.669)

He doesn't care.

Chad (51:42.434)

Yeah, they should be.

Joel Cheesman (51:55.959)

uglier, 26 is going to be, entertaining to say the least, to say the least.

Yeah, you do. Yeah, I do. Cause all the boomers are dying and then all the house. That's another thing today was the house prices of the realtor Google realtor survey kids. If you want some more great news on the economy, but why are we talking Chad, when there are experts on television to kind of break that, break that down. Uh, here's, here's our friend, uh, Steve Ratner to talk about the economy.

Chad (52:19.714)

I gotta sell my house fast.

I know. Yes.

Chad (52:34.37)

Yes. Yes.

Joel Cheesman (53:11.454)

if you put AI or A1 before it.

Chad (53:23.192)

Can you say bubble?

Hoo.

Joel Cheesman (53:36.618)

Wait, the top is doing better than the bottom? That's weird.

Joel Cheesman (53:46.388)

I bet the billionaires at the front of the inauguration are doing okay.

Chad (53:56.206)

Rising wages again. Again.

Joel Cheesman (53:56.938)

Ugh.

Joel Cheesman (54:03.322)

Unsustainable, unsustainable.

By the way, did you see the list of, uh, I guess sponsors or donors for the, uh, the new ballroom? It's basically big tech and crypto. That's basic. It's the, the grift keeps grifting, man. It's, it's insane. By the way, there's so much meat on this show. didn't even comment about the humanly, uh, acquisition. Do we want to say anything about, about we, we read it in the summary, but no comment. My comment is simply.

Chad (54:18.594)

Alright, kill it. Kill it. I can't take it. I can't take it.

Chad (54:34.281)

God, was it?

Joel Cheesman (54:41.488)

Okay. Okay. I mean, look, the humanly, we like those guys, but this is not, it's not workday buying, you know, sauna paradox and flow wise. It's more like, it's more like buying low, low, low, Larry and curly. like these are not successful startups. these are, these are clinch and this is going to be more and more, we're to see more of this consolidation companies just that are out of gas selling for on the cheap, hopefully getting some acquisitions. But yeah, I was just.

Chad (54:51.572)

Yeah, no, I did comment. I commented on not sure if that actually fits within their current TAM, if they're gonna have to expand the TAM. It's just things that we're gonna have to watch,

Chad (55:04.385)

yeah.

Chad (55:07.589)

God no, they're all clearance racks.

Joel Cheesman (55:10.528)

There's so much meat on this show. it's, can't keep up with it, but there's more meat to come. Everybody. When we come back, we'll talk about, porn and browsers to taste the tastes great together.

Joel Cheesman (55:27.446)

All right, chat open AI recently announced that starting December of 25 verified adult users can generate erotic content on chat GPT with enhanced age gating measures to ensure safety. also launched chat GPT Atlas, an AI powered web browser for Mac OS featuring a conversational chat GPT sidebar for summaries and task automation.

Chad (55:39.63)

I think they go together, yeah.

Joel Cheesman (55:53.012)

with plans to expand to Windows, iOS and Android in the future. Chad, porn and browsers, what you got?

Chad (55:56.504)

Hmm.

Joel Cheesman (56:12.352)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (56:18.294)

I was wondering how long it would take them to get to porn. The whole, I mean, because if you take a look at the internet, if you take a look at the internet, one of the biggest revenue drivers is porn. And these companies are struggling. They're making a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, but they're struggling to get themselves above water. They can't, I mean, with all the funding that they've actually taken. So they're going to do everything they possibly can, especially with this administration with low to no regulations on AI.

Joel Cheesman (56:32.982)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (56:47.746)

They're open to do whatever the hell they want. So this is going to happen on the browser side of the house. I said this back when you were questioning perplexity, when they were creating the comment browser. it only makes sense. Google has dominated by injecting the Chrome browser into our daily behavior. All the other AI companies want some of that juice. Right? So, here's some, here's some stats.

for Chrome, session duration. The median session duration for a single Chrome tab is approximately two minutes and 38 seconds. Average tabs open. Chrome users have about 11.4 tabs open at once. Recruiters, probably double that. Daily app usage. A typical smartphone user spends about three hours daily on various apps. For many, a significant portion of this time involves browsing

Joel Cheesman (57:40.32)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (57:41.996)

with Chrome. It's about adoption and fitting into the behaviors of users. This is the key. You can get them to use chat GPT, but they're still using Chrome. Chrome now has Gemini infused in it. So they've got to fight back. This is their way to fight back.

Joel Cheesman (57:44.79)

It's time for a history lesson chat.

Joel Cheesman (57:49.91)

All right. I want to talk about my first interaction with the internet. I was in college and we had been using email, which I guess was technically the internet and a guy in my fraternity said, you can get porn on the internet. I said, what? And to put this in perspective, porn back then was playboys and penthouses, and maybe the occasional skin of max, lady, lady, lady chatterleys lover.

Chad (58:02.967)

I'm

Chad (58:16.011)

Mm. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (58:20.07)

late night. So, so the, the prospect of being 20, whatever, and seeing like naked chicks on this computer screen was pretty interesting. So I can remember going down to the computer lab. Remember that? Well, computer labs don't exist anymore kids. that's why this is a history lesson. So you would go to the computer lab and you would go to like the corner where no one could see you and you would go to like playboy.com and it was a dial up connection.

Chad (58:27.854)

Bye!

Chad (58:31.79)

magazines.

Chad (58:41.56)

Red shoe diaries.

Joel Cheesman (58:49.0)

So literally the lines would go like, like, like a printer. You would see little lines and like, that's her eyeball and her eyeballs coming in. And then it would get down to like, but it would get to cleavage and you're like, yeah. And then you'd finally see a nipple. Yes. That was porn without porn. There is no internet without the prospect of seeing titties. There's no internet. So it's.

Chad (59:11.052)

The pixels. Yeah. Yeah.

That's not an eyeball.

Joel Cheesman (59:17.504)

This is an easy bridge for open ed to be like, all right, you freaky motherfuckers, we're opening the floodgates, make your most erotic shit come true and see what happens. The age gating, I guess we'll see how effective that is. me a kid and I'll show you a 10 foot wall with an 11 foot ladder, but we'll see how that plays out. On the Chrome side, or the browser thing, you did call the browser wars.

Chad (59:27.502)

Yeah.

Chad (59:42.488)

so bad. Yeah.

Joel Cheesman (59:46.934)

Chrome not having to break up or Google not having to break up Chrome told me like it's over. Like they won. don't see how come up with something totally new. Apple and Safari are probably the only ones that could combat that, but they're basically getting payola from Google not to compete with them. I mentioned Facebook and the display glasses. I do. That's an interesting way to interact with the web and the internet and the real world.

Chad (01:00:07.244)

big, big.

Joel Cheesman (01:00:14.528)

But unless Johnny Ive and Sam are coming up with some crazy shit device thing that, that opens up the browser to something else or the kids are really into open AI. don't see that necessarily. The cool factor I'm not sure is there, but I don't see the, I don't see any rabbit coming out of any hat by Sam Altman that says Google should be shaking in their, in their boots about the open AI browser.

Chad (01:00:22.478)

Yes, yes.

Chad (01:00:26.734)

Mm.

Joel Cheesman (01:00:42.548)

And that has been your history lesson kids with a healthy dose of Get Off My Lawn.

Joel Cheesman (01:00:52.5)

And what better way to end this misery than to drop a dad joke on everybody. You ready, Chad?

Joel Cheesman (01:01:03.39)

What did the judge say when the skunk ran into the courtroom?

Chad (01:01:14.424)

call. Good call. Yep.

Joel Cheesman (01:01:14.47)

Odor in the court. Odor in the court.

Joel Cheesman (01:01:22.314)

That's a dad joke. So much meat. We out!

Chad (01:01:29.07)

I don't know.

OK, there you go. That's a dad joke.

Chad (01:01:42.754)

We out.