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Ford's Euro Madness Job Cuts

Lieven and Chad dig deep into this week's topics as Joel takes time with family in Texas complete with a 6-pack of Lonestar. The boys talk about the impact of foreign job cuts in the EU. Is a maddening inflation-bloated economy the reason or just an excuse for Ford and others to bring jobs back to the U.S.? Welcome to the Jungle receives a big funding round and the boys break down the good, bad, and ugly aspects of the platform. Plus, a game of Buy or Sell with Coverflex, Emocional, and new Metaverse player Gemba.

All the industry intelligence you can handle - No spy balloons necessary!

Intro: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HRs most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad: Yes. Welcome to the Jungle. I'm Chad you're gonna die Sowash.

Lieven: I'm Lieven about to be replaced by ChatGPT Van Nieuwenhuyze.


Chad: This week Harry Kane scores. Welcome to the jungle cashes in and Lieven follows Whitney Houston's lead and gets more and so emotional over a little buy or sell, Vamos. There was... Hey Lieven. What's going on man?

Lieven: I'm fine. How are you?

Chad: Another day in Paradise. I heard you were on the Alps or something like that. Where the hell were you?

Lieven: Yeah, Austria. Last week we went on a skiing trip with REDMAR, one of our companies and they had the decency to invite me to their annual skiing trip. And I hope it's a source of inspiration to all the other CEOs who also organize skiing trips and they do not invite me. [laughter]

Chad: So you know who they are, the ones who don't invite you. You know who they are, okay.

Lieven: I will let them know. I remember.


Chad: Talk about first world problems.

Lieven: Yeah. Thanks to Edwin for inviting me. Thank you Edwin. It's appreciated. And it was fun.

Chad: Very nice. Well, I can't wait to get back to Europe myself. I'm not much of the skiing type, but, I'll do everything I can to find a beach that's for damn sure. Or you're not a beach guy. You're more the skiing kind of guy.

Lieven: Depends on the season, in the winter I'm going to the Alps and summer I go to the beach. It's how it's done In Europe.


Chad: It's how it's done in Europe. 'Cause it's pretty easy to do. All right, let's get the shout out before we get there. Yes you are missing, little Joel Cheeseman action. He had a family emergency. So Lieven and I are going to do a little cover, but we do have a little excerpt of Joel just for all you kids who are missing later in the show.

SFX: Hell yeah.

Chad: So, shout outs Lieven, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna go first just because I'm so excited that Harry Kane. That's right kids, scored his 267th goal and becomes Tottenham Hotspur's top scorer claiming a record that stood for over 50 years.

Lieven: You are talking soccer, right?

Chad: Yes.

Lieven: Okay.

Chad: Football. You don't know Harry Kane?

Lieven: I've Never heard about him. No.

Chad: You're gonna get your passport revoked. That's all I gotta say. Your turn.

Lieven: Okay. Mine is not about sports, but basically it is about sports. It's about eSports.

Chad: Okay.

Lieven: Shout out to Randstad for launching Endgame advertisement in GTA online. And when they do something stupid like buying Monster, we keep repeating it and we keep talking about it, but when they do something smart like endgame advertising, we mention it too. Only once, but we'll mention it. So shout out to Randstad, well played.


Lieven: I like everything concerning eSports.

Chad: You guys did that fast though. I mean, you guys got deep into eSports before they did. So it sounds like they're just following the leader on this one.

Lieven: Yeah, but that's smart. Following the leader they should be [laughter], but I know you're right. We organized the finals of the some eSport cup on the last edition of the e-recruitment Congress. But, it's interesting and I'm definitely interested in seeing what they're going to be doing.

Chad: Awesome. Are you gonna have eSports in this year's version of the E-recruitment Congress or have you guys flushed that out yet?

Lieven: No, no. Probably we'll be just doing something but I'm not sure exactly what we'll see, but we're staying active.

Chad: Yeah. It was really cool to watch the finals happen last year with Belgium taking the win.

Lieven: Yeah.

Chad: Taking the win over those crazy Dutch. So that was fun to watch. That was fun to watch.

Lieven: Yeah it was.

Chad: My shout out. I'm taking back to sports from sports to eSports to sports. Women's tennis gets a shout out. The Women's Australian Open Final scored a 1.43 million viewership and the men's where Novak Djokovic, a very known entity, Djokovic claimed a historic 22nd grand slam title where he only saw 1.3 million viewers. So shout out to women's tennis Lieven, I guess at this point, should women's tennis players make more than the men's side if they keep this up?

Lieven: Of course, but I guess they already do.

Chad: I think they do in some cases, but...

Lieven: Yeah, maybe not the male number one compared to the female number one. But like we said last time, where I live in Belgium, the best tennis players are women and they definitely make more than men.

Chad: Yeah, they're ranked higher than your men are though.

Lieven: Yeah. They used to be number one and Kim Clijsters.

Chad: Here's the big question. And we're always talking about equal pay for equal work. Women's tennis, they don't do equal work to the men's. They don't have to play five sets in the final, men's do. So the men actually have to do more work. And in this case, as we're talking about viewership, they actually get paid less. So what do you think about that?

Lieven: We're getting discriminated again and it's a constant. It's a constant. Try being a white 45 year old manager. Try to enter a boat. It's impossible. They only need women. Discriminated, I tell you.


Chad: Yeah. Not because it's been flush with old white men forever, but yes. No, we get it. Lieven, it's hard for life.

Lieven: It's hard. It's hard. Yeah.


Chad: It's hard being a white dude in Europe. I'm sorry, I'm sorry about that.

Lieven: But we cope. We cope.


Chad: Let's hit events. Unleash America's happening in Vegas in April. Are you coming out for that one?

Lieven: I might, I need to check because I'm going skiing. I know Again, the second week of April, I need to check if I can make it. Rika from time to time expects me to work. But I can say it's work. It is work going to [0:06:12.6] ____.

Chad: It is. It is. Then we have Wreckfest in London happening on July 6th. Now if anybody out there is listening, whether you're in Europe, whether you're in US, it doesn't matter, go to, click on events. We have a long list of events that we have already committed to. Yes. In early February. We've already committed to, check it out. Go to unleash. We'll see you in Vegas. Go to Wreckfest. We'll see you in London. Both are amazing, amazing parties. It's time for topics.

Chad: Lieven, Welcome to the Jungle. This one starts with an article in TechCrunch entitled, welcome to the Jungle, grabs 54 million for its slick job platform. French Startup, welcome to the Jungle, has raised a new €50 million in series C Funding the startup helps companies recruit new employees more easily by creating sophisticated profiles packed with a ton of information. Welcome to the Jungle, sends a photo and video crew to your office so that they can shoot some high quality photos and record some quick interviews with employees. Essentially, a profile on the platform should look like a feature article in a fancy magazine. Do those still even exist? Fancy Magazines. Clients also add job postings and more information about benefits, company culture and the existing team. Job seekers can then browse job offers and learn more about the companies on Welcome to the Jungle's job board. Okay. Lieven, are you and the house of HR ready to enter the jungle?

Lieven: We are the jungle. But I like the reference to Guns N Roses, and I always say names are important, so they got the name right, it's something which will stay. Welcome to the jungle, I like it.

Chad: What do you think about this model though? It's incredibly content rich. There's gotta be a shit ton of resources that actually go to creating all that content, sending crews and resources. It's gotta be expensive for the company who's actually buying it. But is it really sustainable as a model for a company that's really just a pretty job Board?

Lieven: It's difficult. But I've been looking into them because I was interested. They started out with launching their platform to reach out to engineers and then they added different verticals.

Chad: Right.

Lieven: And it's always a good approach, I think if you launch niches because people want specialists and we know we are who you want to hire, something like that. I like the approach, but they claim to reach three million unique visitors each year. And they said something like that in their press release. Three million unique visitors.

Chad: Unique visitors A year or a month?

Lieven: A year.

Chad: Wow.

Lieven: I think they say a year. If it's a month I definitely won't believe it. A year I find it hard to believe because if you look into France, there are 67 million inhabitants at the total population, 67 million. So I think the active population will be about 30 million, something like that. They say they reach over 10% of the active population. I find it hard to believe that's really a lot because only 7% of the population in France is unemployed, so that means... No, it's just too much. It's impossible. Basically because they're focusing on engineers and 80% of the people just are not engineer. They will never be engineer. So I have some problems with the numbers, maybe it's wrong in the thing I read, but I liked, as you say, I liked the content and, I liked the concept about, adding content.

Lieven: And it's nice, but it's not like it's so different from LinkedIn. It's what LinkedIn is trying to reach with their company pages only, they don't succeed. And here they succeed because they center on teams to clients. And to answer your question, is it sustainable? I don't know, maybe if you sent really cheap teams, had the impression I liked it. And we have a company in France, hiring engineers, Billson's so when I looked into them, I was really interested, but after a while I had a feeling this really isn't that new. 15 years ago, we did the same thing. It's like adding video to websites and adding information. And make user experience as smooth as possible. But I had trouble finding their website through Google. I was looking for (something in French). And they were on the second page of Google. On the first page was like always indeed and some others.

Chad: Gotcha.

Lieven: But they were on the second page and I did lots of tests with a VPN pretending to be in France, and I did it as it should have been done, and I couldn't really find them. And you can have a great website, but if people don't find it, it's useless. In the end I wasn't really convinced about the whole concept. And then I think they got a lot of money and they need to prove a lot still.

Chad: Doesn't all this information already exist on the corporate career site? Or shouldn't it exist on the corporate career site? Why are companies driving candidates to third party sites for researching information that should be driving people to your own site? And if they don't have the major hammer like Indeed does for SEO and search engine optimization, then why? It makes no sense whatsoever. So personally, this feels like the Muse here in the US for France. And the Muse hasn't even received as much money as welcome to the Jungle has. The Muse was created back in 2011. And Welcome to The Jungle was created in 2014. They've only recently started saying mad funding. Welcome to the Jungle. So no clue why this old model that deters and it's more third party centric, deters away from the actual original job and content. It doesn't make that much sense to me.

Chad: Welcome to the Jungle is more... I think at this point a promise to the total addressable market increases, their new funding is, they had created an applicant tracking system, which I think is just ridiculous. And they're also broadening up to do more than just tech jobs. As you had said. I like the expansion out of tech jobs. It does make sense, but they're expanding out of tech and they're also eyeing the US for a perspective invasion itself. So trying to do all these things at once with a measly €50 million [laughter] What do you think about that?

Lieven: I love the word measly. [chuckle] I think it always sounds good to an investor if you claim to be having plans to reach out to United States and to grow, and it's a huge markets but it's mostly talk to get investors happy I think. I don't see it happen. France is a big markets on itself, but it's very isolated and it's hard to get out of it. It's hard to get into as well, but it's hard to get out of it.

Chad: Right.

Lieven: It's a different world sometimes.

Chad: Yeah. So, question, why wouldn't they focus on more of Europe? It is conquering different countries and if you're gonna conquer another country, you might as well go to the US. It's easier from a linguistic standpoint, but still you would think that you would have strength closer to home, to me, it seems like a hail Mary for investors and it seems rather delusional knowing that here in the US this model was popular shit 15 years ago. It's not so popular today.

Lieven: I agree. And I had the same impression. We did similar things 15 years ago, and they're still doing it. And they're adding, like you said, a magazine. And they even used to have Amature. They still have it. They used to have a yearly coffee table book, something really fancy. You had to pay for it. [chuckle] about let's say the career guides for engineers in France. And people actually bought it. And it's nice. It's doing something different. And RETO is in, if this was a buy or sell, I wouldn't be buying.

Chad: I think I'm with you. This would definitely be a double sell. On the other end of this break. We are going to do just that kids a little buy or sell. Stay tuned.

SFX: Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

Chad: All right. Lieven. You ready for a little buy or sell?

Lieven: Buy or sell.

Chad: Excellent. Okay, kids listen up. What we're gonna do in this segment, is I'm gonna give you a little synopsis about the company who just received funding, and then Lieven and I are going to buy or sell that organization. We have three startups. Lieven, are you ready?

Lieven: Totally ready.

Chad: Here we go. This one's from Launched in 2021 Portuguese HR tech startup, Coverflex has raised €15 million in a series A funding round that will see the company launch its compensation solution in Italy, as well as strengthen its position in Portugal. Coverflex is addressing the cookie cutter problem. That customizable solution allows employers to go beyond the "Traditional" and powers up health insurance, meal allowance, fringe benefits, and discount programs. Coverflex is also positioning itself as a service for recruiting. Imagine that. Hoping to attract the best talent by offering such flexibility. According to the company, since launching in 2021, very new they're used by more than 3,600 companies, culminating in a year on year growth of 400%. No real numbers we're provided just those crazy percentile numbers that really don't mean much of anything to anybody. So Lieven, are you buying or selling Coverflex?

Lieven: It's a really interesting company. And so they offer compensation package supports, which is a growing business and a barrel to our salaries are text into oblivion. So that's definitely interesting. They have a very clear offering. I like their website. I like what they're doing, and I noticed they claim to have Natixis as a client, and Natixis as the investment bank of Maxicup, which is our private equity partner. And a part of it sold to Bain, but we know them pretty well and I know Natixis and Maxicup are pretty intelligent people, and if they work with them, then I'm convinced already. So in this case, definitely a buy.

Chad: Definitely a buy excellent.


Chad: All right, so 15 million in a series A is no joke and managing comp is a pain in the ass. So a platform/app that helps employers manage their own childcare vouchers, retirement, healthcare insurance, worker's comp and much more is a huge weight off of HR's neck and or back. When a vendor shoulders HR's weight and identifies other areas of expansion, in this case Italy, I become interested then throw in, they are a Portuguese company and I just gotta get on board. Coverflex is a buy from me.


Lieven: Are those creative compensation packages a thing in the US as well? Because in Europe it's really, it's a lot. I mean, because taxes are so high on labor, you have to offer people something different. And those compensation packages are, is it the same thing in the US?

Chad: Oh yeah. I mean, comp packages are all over the place, which is one of the reasons why companies trying to get their arms around them in many cases it's not easy. So these types of platforms, again it makes it easy. So not just in Europe, but if they want to jump the pond one day and come to the US, there might be a market here for them as well. So a double apply for our Portuguese friends over at Coverflex. Next we have Emocional. Redarbor, the leading human resource technology company in Latin America has made it an investment of €400,000 in Emocional, total funding €800,000. The startup develops AI compatible of detecting emotional state and personalities. Creepy. It does so through images and videos to improve people's mental health and create emotional sustainable companies. Emocional will use the funds to improve and optimize their AI models, which will work with super computing centers to turn its technology into an international benchmark capable of helping and improving emotional wellbeing in companies. That's a lot of emotional going around. Lieven, is this startup getting you emotional buy or sell Emocional?

Lieven: Definitely a sell and I could talk 10 minutes about this. I won't, it's really easy. I didn't like the name because when I tried to find a website, there are 50 million references to Emocional. It's just a common words.

Chad: Yes.

Lieven: It's really hard to stand out.

Chad: Yes.

Lieven: So that's a bad thing when you're trying to launch a new company. And also, like you said, it's creepy AI and emotions and me, it just doesn't get along too well. So, no, it's a sell.

Chad: Belgians aren't a fan of emotions. Nope. Noted.

Lieven: Well, we keep it inside where they belong.


Chad: Okay. So that's a big no from Lieven. My side. It's fairly simple. Nope. Nope. And nope. Anything that monitors Slack teams and other business communications is a no-go for me. It's way too dystopian. 1984 and it's mental health narrative to me is even more creepy. It's for your own good.

Lieven: Yeah.

Chad: Right. That's what I'm hearing. It's for your own good. It's okay. So anything that sends us further into an enemy of the state scenario is a huge sell for me. So, have you seen Enemy of the State, the movie Enemy of the State, Lieven?

Lieven: Nope, I didn't.

Chad: Okay. It's a 1998 movie listener. You gotta check this out. It has Will Smith and Gene Hackman and Enemy of the State. Put it on your list. Watch it tonight. As we start to make these types of references, you have to understand where we're going. And it's an amazing movie. You're gonna love it. Moving on to Gemba again from, a London-based enterprise Metaverse developer Gemba aspires to build virtual worlds for corporate training. It's announcing an 18 million series A raise led by New York investor Parkway Venture Capital, raised at a 60 million valuation. This funding is expected to help grow Gemba's business in North America, while also honing in on EMEA. You know Joel had to weigh in on this one because it's the Metaverse, right?

Joel: Hey, what's up boys? Sorry I couldn't be with you this week. I'm on a Chinese weather balloon on my way to Texas. I bet that's never been said on a podcast before. Anyway. I hear you're doing buy or sell this week, talking about VR startup Gemba, by the way, that's the Japanese term for actual place. Okay. Let's see. Virtual reality, work from home, upskilling and an ESG spin with Apple's VR coming soon. Ready to raid enterprise budgets all around the world. Check, check, check, check and check. Plus clients like Unilever, Nike, Carlsberg, and Lieven 's Automaker of choice, Bentley. And I say, cue the Careless Whisper kids. Gemba is a screaming by from your boy. And that's it. That's my review. Choose. I'm out.

Chad: Go figure. It's a big buy from Joel. It's VR, it's metaverse. Nobody's surprised here. But what are you gonna do? Are you gonna buy, you gonna sell Gemba, Lieven?

Lieven: First of all, Bentley is for football players. I think it's very ordinary. I wouldn't like to be associated with it, but question was buy or sell. I think short term, it could even be a buy, because I think every company wants to do something in the metaverse and they need companies like this to just get there. But after two years, they'll notice it just doesn't work. And nobody gives a shit and then they'll leave. So that's when you need to sell before this happens. So if they're really cheap now, I might buy, but for a really, really short period of time. So this sounds like a sell more, I think. Because it's just, I never seen any of those companies that went beyond the gimmicks. So far, it all sounds nice how you have to do something in the Metaverse. You have to use VR for training. But I've tested so many tools, I've seen so many tools until now, I haven't seen anything which was better than the real world. So maybe someday.

Chad: Maybe someday. So I think growing business in the US and honing in on EMEA, to me is a problem. I see this as a mistake for startups all the time. No, you go where you're getting traction and then you start to spread out with expansion through your current clients. That's called wallet share kids. You start where they're buying it, and then you spread out. So don't split your luck, especially if you're getting traction in the US which many EU companies have problems with right out of the gate. So that being said, the practical application in healthcare alone makes this company worth a look for me. And the money that will be thrown at it, at about every single step until they get acquired. I agree. Right out of the gate, they're going to be an organization that, you're going to see a lot of people, I think try to go and acquire, but I think they hang on.

Chad: I think if they can continue to get this type of cash and they are focused on go to market in the US. To me, I think this is a buy just from the standpoint of it's gonna be too big to fail. There are too many people in healthcare who want to try to get people up to speed quicker. And this might be a great way to do so. Okay, excellent. So we're gonna move on to something near and dear to both of our hearts. The Ford Motor Company. Just kidding, just kidding. Lieven, has the EU really gone mad? Here's an article from the Express entitled EU Madness Blamed. As Ford moves toward thousands of jobs, going back to the US. Ford is moving most of the positions concerned from Germany back to the US including roles in product development and administrative areas. Up to 3,200 jobs will be moved across the whole of Europe as the automaker cuts cost by shifting production toward electric vehicles at the Aachen's site on the border of Belgium and the Netherlands where Ford has a research center, 220 employees are fearing they could perspectively lose their job. Did I say that right? Is it Aachen?

Lieven: Aachen, Yep.

Chad: Aachen. Okay, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I read this article and I didn't understand where they tied this to EU Madness. Can you connect the dots here Lieven.

Lieven: Yeah. It's just about taxation and all kinds of legislation problems. But basically, if I'm right, I think Ford needed to retreat to the US because of tons of reasons I'll get into it later. And they needed someone to blame. So when you're retreating to the US, why not blame the EU. I mean. It's easy. The problems are not the EU, it's not the EU going mad problems. And the car manufacturing industry, there are tons of problems. I mean, there's a switch from combustion to full electric. There are logistic problems, problems in Belgium, for example, Volvo cars the car manufacturer they have a big factory in Belgium.

Chad: Yeah.

Lieven: They had to put most of their production workers on technical unemployment because they just couldn't get the spare parts to get a production line rolling. So it's close for 10 days now, just because they don't have the parts. And I guess with Ford it's the same thing. You have a Tesla reducing their prices. You have the rising costs for battery components when every car has to be an electrical one and there is a shortage. You get a problem. But in Europe, and probably in US as well, you have a terrible inflation, which has a big impact on the salaries. So salaries are going up pretty fast. And all these things together I think created a perfect storm for Fords. And if they were having troubles, this might be the perfect moment to retreat. But blaming the EU is probably just a cheap way to to explain.

Chad: It's a great way to point fingers. 30 years ago, the US opened itself up to the outsourcing of manufacturing in a very, very big way. Canada, Mexico, Europe, and many other countries benefited in this major move toward globalization and let's be clear, we are a global economy, in the US and obviously in Europe, but the snapback effects were bound to happen especially after a pandemic and manufacturing supply lines were halted because a part and an American company needed to produce a final product for the market was being held up in a lockdown Europe or Asia, much like depending way too much on Russian oil. Europe needs to shore up its own manufacturing instead of leaning so hard on the US. Europe needs to have global ties, no question. But they also need to become much more self-sustainable. I don't believe in the bullshit of America first or EU first as we are global economies.

Chad: Although we have to create sustainable and responsible growth instead of just focusing on the cheapest way to deliver a product. I think again, we made the choice as the US and this was going to happen sooner or later. It took 30 years. So Europe benefited for 30 years, but I agree 100%. I don't think this is the EU's fault. I think they just much like Russian oil, they got addicted to the Russian oil. They got addicted to the US cash and jobs, and you just can't put all your eggs in one basket. So I don't see this as the EU's maddening per se.

Lieven: No. And 3,200 jobs, that's a lot. But then again it's really nothing. Those people won't have much difficulties finding a new job because every company in Germany is craving technicians engineers.

Chad: Yeah.

Lieven: Most of them won't have a big problem. I can imagine Ford not being happy at the moment, given all the circumstances. But to be honest, we prefer German cars and Ford try to make American cars in Germany. It's just not a German car. And In Europe we like German cars. So Fords good riddance go home by.

SFX: Boy that escalated quickly.

Chad: Well, I have to say that when I spend time in Europe, I don't see a lot of American cars over there anyway. And the ones that I do see most of are Fords.

Lieven: Fords. Yeah. Sure.

Chad: But those are... They're more the fiestas, the small, the incredibly little cheap ones. That can fit into a parking space very nicely. But you don't see, I mean, you don't see, I think I've seen maybe one Ford, one or two Ford trucks in Portugal and in Portugal, especially in the Algarve, you have much more space to move and those types of things. It's not like a big city. So I would've thought that I would've seen more of those, but no, that's just not the case.

Chad: The Ford Raptor and the Ford F-150 or what's it called, those really big pickups. I like them. Deep inside, I'm a redneck and I would love to have a pickup and a porch and shotgun, but in Europe it's just not practical. I mean, driving a pickup through Paris is not something I would like to do. But Fords like you said, we have the Ford Focus or Ford Fiesta the smaller ones are pretty spread. I think they sell a lot. The Ford Mondeo, those others I used to see more than I do now, but this could be my impression. Maybe I just don't look at them anymore. They are for company cars and many people here have a company car, and those are mostly German cars because for so many reasons. But reseller prices are higher.

Chad: I do have my eye on a Puma. Have you seen the Ford Pumas?

Lieven: Yeah.

Chad: When we get down back to Portugal, I think I wanna buy me a Ford Puma. But at the end of the day, this is Ford. This is one organization, but much like we saw it with Twitter, Twitter started doing cuts, right? And then you started seeing all these tech companies making cuts and they're pointing their fingers at Twitter saying, well, if they can do it, we can do it too. Do you think other companies will point at Ford and say, well if they can do it, not to mention with all the pressure to get manufacturing back into the US after 30 years of stupidity here in the United States and focusing on nothing but college and not technical degrees, right? Do you think that there's going to be a much larger snapback than just this initial 3,200 jobs?

Lieven: Could be not in the current industry, I think and other industries could be definitely we'll get reshuffle of everything that's going to go fast because the coming years will be hard. I'm not a macro economist, so I'm not going to make heavy predictions about this. But you are probably right, it will happen.

Chad: I'm not a macro economist, but I do play one on a podcast. Big shout out to our buddy Joel. Hopefully everything's is going well with the family. And we will see you back here on the Chad and Cheese behind a mic saying stupid shit. Before we know it.

Lieven: Promise.

Chad: We out.

Lieven: We out.

OUTRO: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey. Or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckle heads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back like an awful train wreck. You can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.


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