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Goodbye Glassdoor?

This is the 14th straight week more than a million people have filed for jobless claims, since the pandemic began. So, how's your week going?

On this week's episode, the boys dive headfirst into

  • Entelo's dumpster fire

  • big brands unfriend Facebook

  • Glassdoor gets pulled into Indeed's Death Star and...

  • CareerBuilder tip-toes into 2018 with an update.

As usual, powered by the best in the business - Sovren, Jobvite and JobAdx.


Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: Oh, yeah. This is the 14th straight week. More than a million people have filed for jobless claims in the U.S since the pandemic began. So how's your week going? Welcome to HR's most dangerous podcast, aka Chad and Cheese. I'm your cohost Joel, my three-year-old woke me way too early this morning, Cheeseman.

Chad: I am Chad, mask the fuck up, Sowash.

Joel: And on this week's episode, we dive head first into Entelo's dumpster fire, big brands unfriend Facebook, and CareerBuilder tiptoes into 2018 with an update. I miss 2018.

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Chad: We're peaking again. I've been in this goddamn house for months. Okay? I've been doing things right, I've been putting a mask on, I've been doing those things.

Joel: Indiana is doing okay.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Indiana is all right. That’s right.

Chad: Thank you. Thanks for calling me.

Joel: Florida is going to Florida. Texans are going to Texan.

Chad: California.

Joel: And Arizona same thing.

Chad: California was fucking nasty. It was over 7,000 cases yesterday. I mean, it's just, yes, we're I think lucky enough to an extent, to live in a less densely populated area, but overall man, you're watching this stuff going. What the F, really guys, I mean seriously.

Joel: The shock to me and people outside of the U.S that listen will probably not understand this, but the mass thing being politicized, just blows me away. But you get a sense when you go out, people who don't wear masks, they do it proudly. As if, F you to the establishment or whatever they're saying F you too, and healthcare should not be politicized in this way at all. It's just really strange. We live in strange, strange times

Chad: There was a video yesterday that I watched and I just couldn't believe it. This lady was saying that the mask was the devil and I mean, it's just like, where do this-

Joel: I saw the same thing. That was great.

Chad: ... Where do this people come from?

Joel: Yeah, you're going to hell.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Yeah, you're going to hell. Yeah.

Chad: You prayed before this council meeting, who are you praying to? The devil? It's like, Jesus, fucking, why are Americans so fucking stupid?

Joel: Yeah. We've gone from medieval time where the devil sent us the virus to now the devil is making us wear masks to fend for ourselves from the virus.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: Oh, good God.

Joel: Evolution baby, evolution. Well, let's get to shout outs. First of all, how was your Father's Day? Let's cover that real quick.

Chad: Father's Day was pretty amazing. Got to relax. Had the dinner made. Julie was like, "What do you want?" I'm like, "Whatever you want to make me." And we had just had a great dinner, great day.

Joel: Chocolate covered strawberries-

Chad: Awesome.

Joel: ... and champagne.

Chad: It can't get any better than just sitting back relaxing.

Joel: Yeah. It's easier to sit back and relax without a three year old, but we did our best, I think in our household. But the thing with me is, Father's Day is so much more disrespected than Mother's Day. Mother's Day is like a holy holiday.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: When Father's Day is like, here's a funny t-shirt and a poop card, with the poop joke or something on it. So, if you like Chris Rock, he does the, daddy's only get the big piece of chicken bit, I don't know if you've ever heard it, but it's pretty good, it's pretty right on. The only good thing that dads get is the bigger piece of chicken during dinner. That's about it.

Chad: I think every day's my day, so I don't care. It's just like birthdays and all that stuff. It just like, I get to enjoy all of this, so screw it.

Joel: Every day is Chad national appreciation day.

Chad: Well, I'm going to tell you what though. On July 3rd, my first shout out, goes to Disney+.

Joel: All right.

Chad: Hamilton comes out on July 3rd. So if you don't have Disney+ currently, or if you do, if you've seen Hamilton, you are already Jones in and ready, and can't wait to watch this thing. If you haven't seen it, you don't know what you're missing yet. Get Disney+, watch it or just get a password from your buddy, right? Watch it and enjoy.

Joel: Yeah. You know I have not seen Hamilton, but I'm going to be forced to watch it because my wife's going to make me. I'm sure it's great, I'm sure it's fantastic. And I'll love it like everybody else. So I will be watching. July 1st is Canada Day, which you know, that I celebrate, because my wife's Canadian. But as of last Friday, she is also an American citizen.

Chad: Wow. Talk about timeliness.

Joel: Yeah. Welcome to the shit show. She's mainly happy about being able to vote. So there is that.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: That's, that's my first shout out, I guess, officially to my wife for being Americanized. Congratulations.

Chad: Yes. And I'm a big fan of that. Because I know she's playing for the... What teams she's going to be voting for. It's not the orange team. Shout out to boss Von der Hotrod just wanted you to get a hat-trick of shout outs, man. And every time-

Joel: Yeah, everywhere.

Chad: ... And every time I've butchered your name,

Joel: He's the new Job Board Doctor every day, every week, we have to have to say hi to him. I'm going to give shout out to NASCAR.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: Again, another more national story, sorry, our international listeners, but NASCAR, which is broadly in my lifetime and historically been, I don't know, an exclusive sport for white folk.

Chad: Yeah, white dudes.

Joel: Guess, I can say that. And recently banned the Confederate flag from being flown at its events, which was a total shock to me, based on what I know about NASCAR. And then, one of their more high profile drivers, Bubba Wallace, had an event this week where a noose was found, I guess, uncovered. It had been there for a long time. It wasn't a hate crime against him. I'm not sure if that will ever be figured out, but anyway-

Chad: Just because nooses are laying around all over the place.

Joel: ... Yeah. Well, this is NASCAR. So who knows what's going on, there's-

Chad: That's so much bullshit.

Joel: ... Mountain Dew and nooses hanging around. So anyway, there's a scene from this past weekend where he's driving his car and basically every NASCAR team is walking behind him. It's a chilling sort of goosebumpy moment, but hats off to NASCAR, man. I mean, talk about appreciating where the world is going and making changes that are really significant from someone who didn't expect to make those changes. That was big.

Chad: Bubba Wallace is the only, and correct me if I'm wrong listeners. Because I am not a NASCAR viewer and or fan. I believe he is the only black driver in NASCAR. So the news, wearing Black Lives Matter t-shirts, before a race and those types of things, all being pulled together with the Confederate flag being banned, which we're seeing that now pretty much everywhere, not to mention we're seeing monuments come down and those types of things. So, from my standpoint, that shit belongs in a Confederate museum, if it belongs anywhere. And hopefully that's where it'll end up and all of the little racist motherfuckers can go visit it.

Joel: Amen.

Chad: So shout out to Kevin Lowe. Now that's a name I can't screw up, talent acquisition leader over at Abu Dhabi Bank. He's a listener. David Krish over in Greenville, South Carolina. He's one of those podcast walk listeners. You know what I'm talking about? Right?

Joel: Yeah.

Chad: The only time they really listened to the podcast is when they're on the treadmill or they're taking the dog for the walk. David's one of those guys.

Joel: Nice, nice. Shout out to our buddies at Tin Guy. You remember the Tin Guy robot?

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: It sounds like they're franchising the business basically. You can partner with them in multiple countries. They now have an English speaking version, so shit's really going to get real, now. So if you're interested in reselling the robot, give Tin Guy a call, shout out to the ladies from Sweden.

Chad: Dude, Charlotte and Elan. Those ladies are working it, not to mention this is the time for it, right? I mean, this is where we need to social distance. If somebody has to come in, I don't know why, but if somebody has to come in and actually do that physical interview, there's no reason to put them in another room with another person, right?

Joel: Yup.

Chad: Go ahead. Let Tin Guy take care of it. It's great from an efficiency standpoint, it doesn't have any of that facial recognition shit and it transcribes and records, right? So you get all that stuff.

Joel: Yup.

Chad: This is the perfect time for those guys to really just bolster automation. And we're seeing a lot of that.

Joel: No doubt.

Chad: Big shout out to Liam Cosgrove over in Sydney, Australia. He's a listener, he's an old JobAdder guy and just moved over to Al Sorter . Have you heard of that one?

Joel: No. But I'm sure that we will, if our buddy Liam is over there, shout out to JobSync and

Chad: What?

Joel: You know JobSync is a Death Match winner.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: And you also know formerly Neuvoo. So those guys are getting together, shout out to them. Also shout out to Adam Chambers, our buddy in

Ireland, who has no shame with marketing. If you follow Adam on LinkedIn, probably anywhere else, he shared a video of a customer talking about dancing in the office or dancing in the aisles because of two placements, I think for nurses that were done at a total cost of, I think $3,200. So Adam man, we love that marketing buddy. Keep it coming.

Chad: Good stuff. And another guy who is amazing at marketing, Adam Gordon, of course he doesn't know who Baker Mayfield is. We knew you wouldn't Adam, but hopefully we're broadening your horizons to overrated NFL players.

Joel: Shout out to Ashley Collins.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: Ashley at Joveo is now on the advisory board, I guess, of get optimal, which is a good segment to pimp our Joveo KJ Voices series that I think dropped the first episode this week.

Chad: That's right.

Joel: As well as Get Optimal, who is a Death Match contestant. So Ashley is an advisor, but more importantly, Ashley is also a Ball State graduate, just your boy.

Chad: Oh my God!

Joel: Just doing the Alma Mater proud. Shout out to you, Ashley.

Chad: Yeah. Don't tell anybody that you might want to take that off your LinkedIn profile. We were ready to hit events real quick.

Joel: Sure. Let's talk about events.

Chad: All right. So events sponsored by Shaker Recruitment Marketing. That's right kids. We're not going anywhere. Although digitally we're showing up everywhere, like a bad penny, we keep turning up. So today my Jobgate I Summit Panel is going on its investment in M&A in our industry. So that's all we're talking about. I have three white guys joining me, imagine that. But if you didn't get a chance to actually enjoy, because by the time you hear this, it'll be over. You can find the recordings, It's the I Summit. And check it out, this should be a fun discussion today. Louise Grant and the Job Board Doctor, Jeff Dickey Chasins, he pulled-

SFX: Hell, yeah.

Chad: ... They both pulled me in to be able to add a little color to this conversation, because some people can find M&A boring, not me not to mention this is not going to be a boring conversation. So I'm pretty stoked.

Joel: No, that's exciting. Don't forget Feature Rama. It's first voyage over to the UK, but it's a virtual event from Wreckfest we're featuring XOR, Jobvite, Nexxt with Two X's and HiringSolved. It is a juggernaut of competitors battling it out for the Feature Rama bad-ass belt of wrec tech or something like that, that we're calling it. So that. was awesome. We filmed those last week or earlier this week, and then those go live July 8th and 9th. One of those days, I don't know if the actual schedule has been set or not, but tough competition. It was tough for us to figure out who won the competition,

Chad: That's right. And if, obviously you want to see the competition, four big names, some big features go to It's free, it's content, it's good stuff. Check it out, but we've got to really quickly tell the Feature Rama story. So technology is amazing until it's not, I've been using this platform called Whereby, which is awesome for video calls and conferences, and those types of things. I love it.

Joel: We love it.

Chad: It has an add-on for recording. It's like, "Fuck, yeah, I get to use this and we get to do it. And it's really cool." And it was garbage. The audio that came out was just garbage and it was just... So we had three out of four, actually were recorded already because we were doing it in such quick fashion. We did a review, it was garbage. So we actually had to find another platform which actually Louise Triance helped us with.

Joel: Oh, there you go. And now they're all recorded. They're nice and smooth as they can be, smooth as a baby's butt. And they're ready for you to watch. So sit down, register, and check out the content, is going to be coming straight to your computer.

Joel: Now, do you want to plug the solution that actually worked or are we going to keep that a secret?

Chad: Yeah. Crowdcast was it, we saw that when Hung Lee did his brain food marathon, he used Crowdcast and he blew it up, but he had over 2000 people on it for God's sakes. So talk to Louise who actually has worked with the platform for a while. It worked out amazingly. So we're pretty happy about it. Not to mention it was pretty cost effective as well.

Joel: Yeah. And by the way, shout out to all the founders and whatever employees of the companies that worked with us to turn around another round of interviews.

Chad: Quickly.

Joel: Within roughly 72 hours, that we got all these recorded. So shout out to them. I know they're busy people, but they made time for the Chad and Cheese Show.

Chad: Yes. And thanks to India over at the Recruitment Events Company who actually said, "Yeah, take a couple of days to get that redone because the shit that you have is garbage."

Joel: Although there's probably a curve for working with us, like, till on Monday, but that's really Wednesday because they're going to fuck some shit up.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: So anyway, the Chad and Cheese curve.

Chad: We are everywhere, we're in shaker gear and loving life, just from home unfortunately instead of getting on an airplane.

Joel: Ready for the news?

Chad: Topics,

Joel: Glassdoor, some rumors perculating from the podcast of fear, I guess, from our listeners. Apparently Glassdoor reviews are going to start showing up on

Indeed with some sort of Glassdoor tag or something that indicates that it's from Glassdoor. We both think this is sort of a pretty ominous sign for the future of Glassdoor.

Chad: Yeah. This is a dead brand walking kind of a thing I think.

Joel: Zombies.

Chad: Yeah. I mean, COVID is a killing a lot of bottom lines at this point. And, unfortunately-

Joel: COVID is wreaking havoc.

Chad: ... Yeah. When we take a look at Glassdoor, especially if it's seen as a review site, primarily, which it is, for employment brand. Many of these companies start putting employment brand on the back burner once they get flooded with candidates. So you'd think they'd start with back office consolidation, which makes more sense in not shutting down the Glassdoor brand, because it is a big brand, unless they're failing miserably to make numbers. So, they might just do a simply hired on this thing.

Joel: Yeah. I fear that... I've always thought this was the future of Glassdoor. I kind of backtracked when they sort of kept it alive. I think COVID is putting this on speed dial in terms of what Indeed is going to do with it or Recruit Holdings. We reported not too long ago that 30%, I believe of a Glassdoor staff was let go. Indeed so far as we know, hasn't let anyone go. So it's sort of convenient that you can cut costs by eliminating another business, but yes, the reviews are very unique to Glassdoor. So how do you slowly build that content over to Indeed? It sounds like that's what's happening. We haven't heard anything about Indeed's reviews going over to Glassdoor. So it's not a shared thing. And I also think that in terms of the review space, I speak sort of closely to this because, I have an application or app called Ratedly that basically aggregates 30 some sites of reviews for employees and other sites, that aren't review sites like Twitter and Reddit and whatnot. But I can tell you that when I started the business, I was pretty convinced that this thing would fragment immensely, that you'd have, InHerSight and Fairygodboss, which you do, but I think their success is limited. You'd have like a Chicago Glassdoor, you'd have African American Glassdoor and that really hasn't panned out. It's basically Indeed and Glassdoor, is like 90% of the market.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: So indeed is in a enviable position to where they can eliminate Glassdoor and still keep that 90% of the review traffic. So unless someone like LinkedIn, Google, Facebook really gets hot and heavy into the review space. This seems like a pretty positive move that doesn't do much to hurt Indeed. And it looks like they're going to save money and Glassdoor is eventually going to slowly go away. And we're seeing it quick and by the COVID pandemic.

Chad: Yeah. And employers won't hate this at all because they hate the thought of managing all of that, especially just the damage control shit, right? So if they don't have to deal with a big brand like Glassdoor, because they were the review place for employers, employees, then the rest of them don't matter either, right. I mean, it's just, that's how the thought process is going to go, unless somebody else can come up and actually take that traffic and those dollars. But unfortunately, Glassdoor can't get the dollars. So what makes anybody else think that they can?

Joel: Yeah, money's not flowing there like it used to be, companies have always felt like Glassdoor was attacks.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: They had to pay it sort of like how restaurants feel like they have to use Yelp in many cases.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Karma is a bitch. And I really think that Google needs to really look at doing reviews. They do it for restaurants and everything else. Why not employers? I'll keep an eye on that one.

Chad: Keep an eye on that one. Another dead brand walk-

Joel: Another dumpster fire zombie that roams the streets.

Chad: ... Yes. Entelo, which we talked about their new CEO who was a pretty much a product guy, who was at Jobvite for awhile.

Joel: Jobvite, yeah.

Chad: Yeah. Was that Jobvite for a while. Was a product guy and he took the head position there at Entelo. And I feel like this is much like Scott over at Monster. He joined, he was airlifted to the Titanic as it was going down, if he can save that thing that's awesome. But the likelihood of that happening is very low. And I think from an Entelo standpoint, it's even much lower. I mean, his runway is so short right now. And then Danielle just left, which we said would happen, a couple of podcasts ago.

Joel: Yeah. Happened much quicker than we thought. So rumor is that when the ConveyIQ Entelo deal went down, Danielle came on, had a lot of product ideas, wanted to bring a lot of innovation. And according to sources, she was really stifled and shut down in terms of innovation that she want. Her and Bischke didn't get along too well. Apparently you would think that once Bischke left, maybe Danielle would stick around to sort of build the product, with the new CEO. But either she was so far out the door when he came in, or maybe he had the same ideas that Bischke had or who knows. But yeah, not only has she left the industry, I think for ...

It's called 24/7 software, I think. She also left New York, which I think she's a born and bred New Yorker.

Chad: Wow! Yeah.

Joel: To go to Florida. So part of that story also is people fleeing New York. She has on her post talking about, leaving New York and how impactful that was on her decision. But yeah, her leaving was big, in light of him coming on as CEO. But I also know from the source that I spoke with, that 12% of the company was laid off recently, the entire marketing department was laid off as well as most of the U.S engineering. They also had two customer service leaders, leave the company for other greener pastures, if you will. And there is currently no head of product or customer service leadership at the company currently. So Mr. So I think that's how you pronounce his name from Jobvite new CEO, has his work cut out for him. And as you said, his runway is probably short. So don't envy that cat one bit.

Chad: Yeah. Get the life rafts out kids. I mean, if they're not already, you better get them out and start filling them up. I was very surprised that, Danielle wasn't put into the CEO position, number one. And that says one of two things either she didn't want it and she was trying to get the fuck out or she did, and they just passed her up. Right? And then again, just another reason why she's out so quick, so not sure which one happened, but either way, she was definitely a big voice in that ecosystem.

Joel: Yeah, for sure. And then you humorously shared their about page, which still has Danielle and John on it, I believe.

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: Which makes sense. Because they let go of all their marketing folks. So they're probably going to be a lot of changes to the About Us page anytime soon.

Chad: How do we change the About Us page? I don't know, we fired all those fuckers.

Joel: What's the WordPress login and password. I don't fucking know.

Chad: Oh shit, I don't know, yeah.

Joel: All right, man, let's take a break and talk about at least one company getting money that might be able to hire all these Entelo refugees.

Chad: I'm on it.

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Joel: So first of all, yes, there's a CEO spot at TaskRabbit that needs to be filled.

Chad: Yeah. And they were acquired by IKEA in September, 2017.

Joel: Smarty acquired.

Chad: Yeah. I think, but I mean, we haven't heard anything really about TaskRabbit, I guess we're not following them closely or they're not speaking loud enough.

Joel: When we interviewed rich from IKEA, what was the percentage of TaskRabbit jobs that were just, build my IKEA couch. It was huge.

Chad: Yeah. It was pretty big and just another reason why to use it. So I don't think they're a dead brand walking because they're really-

Joel: No.

Chad: ... an extension for IKEA, but Stacy Brown-Philpot was one of the few prominent black women in the technology industry in Silicon Valley and has left the gig worker marketplace. Man, she oversaw the sale of IKEA, she's a very strong CEO, no question. And we talked about LinkedIn a few weeks ago and I felt was a mistake and not just upping the white dude into the CEO position, but finding a person of color who obviously could set that standard for culture and understanding, before their problems and their rage machine started. In this case, you have a very strong black female CEO. The question is what's going to be the process and to be able to backfill. I mean, that's not going to be easy.

Joel: Yeah. The good news is this looks like there's no animosity whatsoever from the stories that I've read. She's going to be in the role, through the end of August to help fill, the new CEO role. So, I think it's safe to assume that she'll be very engaged with who that is, the process, do they bring in another diverse candidate, which I'm assuming they'll at least bring diverse candidates to come in and interview. So I think it will be a strong transition as she's got a huge resume. A story say that they don't know exactly what she's going to do next. She's probably a very rich woman. But, yeah, I think TaskRabbit is strong. They're just really built into the system of IKEA and what IKEA does. And I think that Stacy will pick a great leader and they'll continue their run as the gig economy becomes that much stronger.

Chad: Yeah. We'll see and the industry is watching. I mean, when any CEO position is getting filled, especially right now everybody's eyes are on them, but when you have a strong black female CEO, especially in Silicon Valley, I don't know how many of those actually exist. This is going to be-

Joel: Unicorn.

Chad: ... Yeah. This is going to be a very closely watched position and in we're sure they'll be watching.

Joel: Yeah. And she'll be in high demand, from companies-

Chad: God, yes.

Joel: ... looking to fill CEO spots with diverse candidates. So the future is bright for her and hopefully for TaskRabbit as well. So we had some raise this, this week, a company called Humanly who was a Y Combinator company and was featured news wise about, in February, in terms of winning the Y Combinator and getting some money, just got, we think as a C round, it wasn't advertised as an A round, but they got $800,000, these guys are trying to automate everything, from they have a chatbot, candidate screening, scheduling. They're trying to bring it all together like so many of their companies are and they're making noise, they're out of Seattle.

Chad: Yeah. I think their website byline says it all, "Candidate screening, scheduling, and engagement at scale." That last word is the key, right? If you are in talent acquisition now, you have to be thinking scale. You have to get rid of your old processes and you have to think about what happens when business comes back. I have to scale not to mention when business goes away, because this is a fluctuating industry cycle, whatever you want to call it, we have to get better at flexing, right? Whether it's expanding or contracting from a staff standpoint, the best way we can do that is with technology.

Joel: Yup.

Chad: And these are the types of platforms that will get funding and smart talent acquisition leaders, HR leaders they'll be looking at these now. They should be implementing and looking to try to implement as soon as possible.

Joel: Yup. I also think It really underscores the question that we've been asking since this thing sort of started was, as companies let go of recruiters and human beings that do these jobs, when the times get better and they need to start hiring, are they going to choose automation or are they going to choose bringing the people back? And I think this underscores, at least the smart money is going to the automation side of the fence. The story in GeekWire that highlighted this round said, "For company is still looking to fill positions, budgets are tight as they manage an influx of job applications with thousands of laid off workers seeking new employment." And then the quote from Humanly CEO, Prem Kumar was, "Companies are turning to automation, like never before," sign of the time.

Chad: Just simple, again, candidate screening, scheduling, engagement, they have a chatbot, at scale, right? That is-

Joel: Don't call it a chatbot.

Chad: ... Yeah. They have a chatbot. They have-

Joel: A conversational AI.

Chad: ... Coversational AI. Yeah, there you go, they have conversational AI. But overall, we need to, as an industry adapt much faster, we don't take enough risks. I know that people are afraid to take risks, but guess what? That's how you get to tomorrow, you don't get there by just putting your thumb in your mouth and going into the fetal position in the corner.

Joel: Yeah. And it's a dollars and cents question, it's, okay, I'm I going to hire back a team of recruiters and people doing these jobs that can be automated or do I use a service like this?" I think most people, I won't say most, but a good number of people are going to choose automation, if they find success through that it'll start bleeding into the companies that didn't choose that, eventually.

Chad: And good talent, acquisition leaders, not managers, leaders will understand that this type of technology will give your humans the opportunity to be more human, to be able to connect with those humans, to have a better experience, not just with great technology, but through the human experience as well. So it takes all of that mundane shit that people have to do tasks every single day, technology can do that kind of stuff. Let the human be the human and be your brand ambassador.

That's what we've been talking about for years. This is the time to actually start adopting and implementing.

Joel: Well, someone who probably needs a little help being humid.

Chad: Oh, Jesus.

Joel: Mark Zuckerberg our buddy at Facebook is in the news for quite a few things this week. What do you want to start with?

Chad: Oh my God. The boycott, so out of the New York Times, I quote, " Facebook put on an upbeat presentation to advertisers on Tuesday, the same day, the clothing chain, Eddie Bauer, the film distributor, Magnolia Pictures and Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream brand, announced that they will stop advertising on the platform through July." Now, these companies joined Patagonia, the North Face REI, and others in a growing boycott that has targeted Facebook's content moderation practices. This is exactly what we need. The problem is, most of these companies really need the eyeballs and they really need the sales and Facebook has been a good return on investment. So this is going to be hard for many companies to be able to embrace.

Joel: Yeah, very hard. I mean, it's essentially a duopoly with Facebook/Instagram and Google, in terms of where you put your dollars online.

Chad: Right.

Joel: Obviously an opportunity for the Snapchats, the Twitters and the other fringe players, but the bulk of the market is there. It is worth noting that I think all of the companies are still active on these, like Instagram, for example, I know Patagonia is still posting pictures and whatnot on Instagram. So they're not abandoning the platforms, which would really be a statement for them. And it is only through July. It's not like we're done forever. But it is a nice statement. I think ultimately, in terms of Zuck, they're not going to lose users because REI is not advertising, they're not going to lose probably that much advertising dollars because a huge bulk of the dollars come from smaller businesses than the bigger ones. But I think one angle that people aren't talking about very much, is the current employees and how they're impacted by this, right?

Chad: Right.

Joel: They're going to work in Patagonia, and REI, and all these cool brands, right?

Chad: Yeah.

Joel: And then when they get wind like, "Oh, this cool brand that I love and stands for something is saying, who you work for is bad." I have to look in the mirror and say, "What am I doing working at this company, that's pissing off all these people?" So I think there's a real, probably what Zuck is most worried about is the talent potentially and how they feel about it, morale at the company, maybe people exiting to work at companies that stand for something. I think that's an angle that doesn't get much attention, but probably should, and probably will get more if more companies jump on board, this trend.

Chad: Well, and I think the companies that are boycotting are sending a message to their employees. So we actually saw Tom Herbst, who was the North Face CMO at the time speak in Banff at the gathering of cult brands. And his message was simply, be more fucking human. I mean, that was his message. We have to be more fucking human, not just to the people that buy our stuff, the people that we work with on a daily basis, the people that we engage as a brand and in this case, that's really what they're saying, "We don't like what you're doing," and I know that from our culture, the North Face culture, Padagonia culture, REI, et cetera. Especially Ben and Jerry's, God. This is a message, not just to Facebook, but also to their employees. We don't stand for this shit.

Joel: Sure. And we talk about voting with your wallet, voting with actual voting, the employee vote in terms of walking out or being really pissed off, is more and more meaning something. So it'll be interesting to see what happens, but so the Trump ads that were rejected, for interesting reasons, sort of using subliminal, Nazi, anti-Jew insignia, Nazi insignia. That was kind of crazy. So those ads were rejected. Thoughts on that, I mean, I think that, to me it looks like a little bit of a tit for tat thing where Facebook policed Trump's commentary. And then he came back and said, "Okay, we're going to investigate you guys and make your life harder." And then this is like another blow. So this feels like a little bit of an internal war between social media and Trump, but the fact that Trump and their advertising is sort of subliminally trying to provoke Nazi nostalgia, is really scary. I don't have anything else to say about that, but it's fucked up.

Chad: This is a time COVID, the economy, obviously George Floyd, Black Lives Matter. This is the opportunity for us to actually start to come together and a leader would understand that. That's definitely not what we have in this administration.

Joel: Yeah. To think that it's calculated strategy, to sort of have this dog whistle, a rallying cry for your idiot supporters and racist supporters.

Chad: Yes. And Zuckerberg has got to find a spine. I mean, this was a fucking lay up for God's sakes, but he's got to find a spine. I think Jack and Twitter for God's sakes, everybody's like, "Oh, he's standing up." I don't think that he is, he's doing little things, but most of the content that's being put out really just through the president's Twitter accounts, it is either erroneous or it's just trying to incite bullshit, right? So it's like, shut them down. I know I have friends, just put it this way, who have been kicked off of Twitter on several occasions for much, much, much less.

Joel: LinkedIn jail.

Chad: Yeah. So anyway, I think, I think social media platforms, they're trying to play both sides. Let's hope in November, we have somebody else, that's going to be coming into administration in January. And at that point, the decisions that they're making now will impact what happens next year.

Joel: Yeah. And I also think there's a little element of Trump losing is becoming more and more of a reality, right? In terms of polling, I mean, unless he turns this shit around, the next four and a half months, you're seeing an... I see this in terms of GOP leaders slowly pushing the eject button on the Trump campaign. And Facebook is pretty closely aligned to Trump, whether it's obvious or not. And so I think if they don't want to be in front of Congress for the next four years, they need to start doing this distancing from Trump. And that also to me is part of the game that's being played by Facebook and Zuck.

Chad: They need social Trump distancing right now.

Joel: Boom. I see what you did there. That's not too bad. Let's take a quick break, and after that-

Chad: CareerBuilder.

Joel: ... then we'll talk about CareerBuilder. Don't call it a comeback maybe.

Sovren: Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry. The more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting that's S-O-V-R-E-N dot com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren, software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Chad: Whoo. Back to the main dumpster fire.

Joel: Yeah. The three years and running, four years and running, I don't know, since we started thos podcast, CareerBuilder has given us unlimited fodder.

Chad: Yes. So-

Joel: Or content.

Chad: ... what's this smoking mirrors all about?

Joel: Story comes out, CareerBuilder launches a myriad of product advancements, amidst the pandemic, so essentially this is a quote from Irina Novoselsky, jeez that's a mouthful, who's CEO, remarkably of the company. So, "With an increase of available talent, the market now is a time now for companies to focus on building their talent communities." So, Talent Discovery Platform, a CareerBuilder product, they've added some AI shit, some machine learning capabilities, that let people find talent faster. They have a social referral product that they have improved, done some staff. They have added sms apparently to the feature set, which pays great. They introduced two-way sms, for allowing hiring managers to connect with candidates more efficiently. The company said, "About 70% of job seekers are looking for new job opportunities on the mobile devices." So if you're missing out even CarrerBuilder's are saying that. But most of the stuff is not life altering, but it seems like fairly solid progress, to tech that is being evolved and expected to engage with in our market and they are getting away thankfully, for the pokemon for jobs technologies that they've been famous for, the last couple of years.

Chad: Whoo. Thanks for catching up CareerBuilder. Welcome that's awesome.

Joel: Yeah. Welcome.

Chad: You're only about two to three years behind and that's okay. Because the big question is, who are they using to build this shit? All their engineers in-

Joel: Bingo.

Chad: ... Atlanta were fucking gone. I mean, it's like, see from my stand point, what I am seeing is a company who's continually using PR in marketing, to bullshit, to squeeze more money out of the stone, I mean, they've already sold off pieces, parts. I think they really, could have gotten a shit tone of cash, for Broadbean, if they would have funded a programmatic switch for Broadbean, back two, three years ago. And I know that was actually on the table and they didn't do it. So the decisions that they made, back then, not to fund moving forward, they're trying to catch up now with the bullshit sms. Okay, great, that's awesome.

Joel: Yeah. And for all we know they're partnering with somebody to power that.

Chad: Ethical.

Joel: And they've plugged in a new API, AI solution, to add AI to something, like search functionality. So, yes, that's totally what I said, "Who the hell built this stuff?" And it's probably just third party plug-ins, then they come out and say, "We have this now." So we'll see.

Chad: Yes. Smoking mirrors kids, don't buy it and if you're buying it, okay.

Joel: Stop buying it.

Chad: I don’t know what you're doing.

Joel: Go to Humanly or somebody else. We out.

Chad: We out.

SFX: Adios Turd Nuggets.

Outro: Thank you for listening to, what's it called? Podcast. With Chad, with Cheese. Brilliant.. They talk about recruiting, they talk about technology, but most of all they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shoutouts of people you don't even know. And yet you're listening, it's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one. Cheddar, blue, nacho, Pepper Jack, Swiss. There's so many cheeses and not one word. It's so weird. Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. It's so weird. We out.


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