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Indeed Attacks Linkedin

In this episode, the boys discuss the recent upgrades at Indeed, including the revamped user profile page and the introduction of AI-powered writer and smart sourcing suites. They also talk about LinkedIn's testing of TikTok-style video options. Chad criticizes Indeed for focusing on the top of the funnel and not moving down the funnel to provide better data for matching candidates. Joel sees Indeed's upgrades as a direct response to LinkedIn's shortcomings and believes that the video feature will increase engagement and interest from advertising agencies. In this episode, Chad and Joel discuss various topics including the potential for LinkedIn to compete with Twitter for advertising dollars, the buy or sell game featuring MetaView, Modal, and Home from College, the impact of minimum wage laws on fast food workers, Amazon's decision to replace its Just Walk Out technology with smart carts, and Apple's exploration of mobile robots for the home.


Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast, Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: Oh, yeah, two guys sharing a drink called "loneliness," but it's better than drinking alone. Hi, kids, it's The Chad and Cheese podcast, I'm your cohost, Joel "solar eclipse" Cheesman.

Chad: This is Chad "girl power" Sowash.

Joel: And on this episode, LinkedIn, TikToks, Indeed Sources, and Amazon just walks out, plus, buy or sell. Let's do this. Have you heard, there's a big event in Indiana on Monday called the solar eclipse?

Chad: Yeah, we've got a little town here, Columbus, Indiana, 40,000 people, and this weekend, we're supposed to have 250,000 people because we are in the direct path. It's fucking crazy.

Joel: My aunt in Little Seymour, which is smaller than Columbus, they're expecting like a hundred thousand people. It'll be great for the economy, that's for sure. I hope the weather cooperates.

Chad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I mean, no matter what, it's not like people aren't gonna buy shit, right? It was funny, I was going through physical therapy this morning, the whole shoulder thing, and everybody was talking about getting your groceries, getting... It was almost like an apocalypse. Well, you gotta make sure you get your groceries, gotta get your stuff, get in... I'm like, why? I mean, you're like, well, you won't be able to get groceries. Everybody's gonna buy everything out.

Joel: Four Minutes of night. Middle of the day is gonna destroy everything. As listeners know, my wife is a scientist, professor, so we're having a get-together, you don't really have parties at our age, we're having a get-together. And Sun King, a popular brewery here in Central Indiana, has an eclipse beer.

Chad: They all do.

Joel: I don't know what it's called, we have... It's crazy, yeah, we have two growlers ready to rock for Tuesday, we've got the glasses, yeah, yeah. I'm calling it the "Joeler eclipse."

Chad: That's so bad, so bad. So how was Easter, real quick? All good?

Joel: Easter Was good, Easter was also Jeremy's birthday, my now seven-year-old. So Easter was Godzilla versus King Kong.

Chad: That's awesome.

Joel: Or they're actually teaming up for fights. Monsters killing each other, it's great.

Chad: Love it.

Joel: Easter egg hunt. Had my 84-year-old dad come over, we had, by Jeremy's choice, Pizza Sammy's, select big grinders with pepperoni and pizza and cheese, which is fine with me.

Chad: And Calzone.

Joel: And that was it. How about you?

Chad: Yeah, I went down to Clarksville, Tennessee. My brother and sister-in-Law are getting ready to move to Australia, I can't wait to go visit them. So we visit them and their three young boys. So that was a good time. And literally on Easter, we started drinking like at 10:00 AM and we didn't stop all through the day, beermosas, I mean, you name it, so.

Joel: Nice.

Chad: Other brother-in-Law actually did a big-as brisket and ribs, and so yeah, it was pretty awesome, it was a good send-off, let's just say that.

Joel: Yeah, well, I didn't hear from you on Monday, so I assumed that you were either hung over or recovering from brisket overdose.

Chad: Traveling back and trying not to fall asleep at the wheel with all that fucking brisket on my stomach.

Joel: Do you have a favorite Tennessee whiskey?

Chad: No, I don't, I'm not a big Tennessee whiskey fan, and there are so many bourbons in Kentucky, I just haven't pushed past it. Not to mention, I'm really looking forward to, we'll talk about this later, kids, our trip to Scotland.

Joel: Yeah, tease. I like Bib & Tucker, try it out if you haven't, if you like the whiskeys. Bib & Tucker, and it's a cool bottle.

Chad: Bib & Tucker.

Joel: And cool bottle as well. All right.

SFX: Shout-out.

Chad: All right, we're gonna go first shout-out, kid, to Sebastian Dettmers, the CEO over at StepStone. So earlier this week, he posted the following on LinkedIn, "After much contemplation, I've decided to embark on a digital detox journey, and we'll be going offline for the next three months. During my absence, all standard internal and external inquiries will be in the capable, virtual hands of chatGPT, courtesy of an innovative AI CEO partnership with OpenAI." So the post goes on, but after reading this, I reached out to a couple of friends at, and I was still loopy from Easter by the way, at StepStone and Appcast. I was like, dude, what the fuck? And I got nothing but laughing emojis, and he got you. Yes, it was an April fools' joke, and yes, Sebastian, you got me, my friend, you got me. Good job. Good job on that one. I fucking hate April Fools.

Joel: Maybe he's been listening to this show because we've talked about CEOs going away and being replaced by AI. So it wasn't that out of the norm for us, it was good to see something like that. Good job.

Chad: That was good. That was good. That's good, that's good.

Joel: My first shout-out, I'm sure you saw, Taiwan had a big earthquake this week.

Chad: Yeah. Massive.

Joel: And I was amazed at how well the infrastructure Handled it. They have a huge building, that was fine, bridges, it was pretty, pretty well maintained. There were a few buildings, but the buildings that fell didn't like collapse into dust, they fell off the base, most of the people were saved, it was just... Shout-out to Taiwan and their infrastructure, in contrast to us, one boat hit the base of a bridge and the whole whole thing falls down like a bridge of toothpicks. I don't know if it's too late for the infrastructure bill, but the USA is in dire need of some Taiwanese engineering.

Chad: Yeah, I think any of those buildings that would've gotten hit by a container ship would've gone down. My shout-out to Girl Power, that's right. The AP is reporting that Women's Final Four tickets are on the resale market, selling for an average of, get ready, kids, $2300, which is twice as much as the Men's Final Four. And you've got Caitlyn Clark from Iowa to thank for that, Camilla over at South Carolina. God, she is big and she is like the Shaq of NCAA basketball for women. Paige Beckers, Angel Reese. But Friday matches are Iowa against Connecticut, South Carolina against North Carolina State. It's pretty awesome because I know that you remember going to girls basketball games, and like the scores would be 35 to 12, right? It was excruciating watching girls basketball, but now I like watching the girls play more than I do the dudes. It's amazing.

Joel: Yeah. And to your point, that was a high-scoring affair if it was 35 to 12, that was a banger, baby, back in the day.

Chad: A banger.

Joel: Totally. So I have friends in Cleveland, where the Final Four is, and I can confirm that they have reached out or tried to get some second-market tickets, aftermarket tickets. And the cheapest that they found was $800 a ticket, and this is a professional arena, this isn't like a high school gym.

Chad: Like 20,000.

Joel: This is legit. So huge. And I'm gonna mess up some of these, but the viewership of the Iowa LSU game topped, I think the Grammys, like every award show, most of the NBA playoff games, really big viewership, and I think it's fantastic.

Chad: There's a rematch of last year's final.

Joel: Rematch. But great characters, great story with those two. Caitlyn Clark is very likely to be the first pick coming to Indiana next year. And as an Indiana resident, I can't be more excited to have her. They also had the first pick last year, so they could be a juggernaut of a WNBA team, they're gonna sell out the arena, which is amazing. They might outsell the Pacers on average per game, per seat.

Chad: Probably not hard, but yeah.

Joel: Yeah, I mean, the Pacers are pretty good still, but yeah.

Chad: That's too bad, yeah.

Joel: So my shout-out piggybacks on that. I think this has been the most fun March madness that I can remember a long time. And a lot of it isn't the... Even the NCAA, you mentioned the women's basketball, which I echo. The NIT is one of the most fun tournaments that I've seen in a while. Now, indiana State hasn't done anything since Larry Bird was there in the '70s, they're the number one seed, they should have been in the NCAA. But I'm glad they're not because now they're playing in the Final Four, which is in Indiana, they're playing in Butler, which if you're a midWesterner Hoosier, this is like folklore, this is Marlin, the movie Hoosiers, this is a really old, historic arena. Indiana State's basically gonna be the home team. In this thing, they beat Utah and they play Seton Hall, I think, for the championship, so it's like a biggie school playing Indiana State. That's so much fun.

Joel: And they have this guy, his name is Robbie Avila, and he wears these throwback goggles, like Kareem used to wear, and Worthy. And he's about 6'9", I think, white guy. Oh, he's mixed, he's like half Hispanic, half white, and he has the best nicknames. His nicknames include "Cream," Abdul-Jabbar, not Kareem, but cream like cream soda. "Larry Nerd," Larry Bird, and "Milk Chamberlain" is another one, so great nicknames there. And then you got... And then you got DJ Horn at NC State. You mentioned the big folks in the middle, this guy, he's listed at 275. He hasn't seen 275 since eighth grade, I don't know where the hell they're getting that, but this dude has got personality, he's fun. NC State is a underdog. Purdue's in it. Purdue is like one All American and a bunch of Indiana gym rats, so that's fun to watch, a throwback to teams of the '80s and '70s. But, I think, shout-out to... Shout-out to March Madness, if last month was Six Nations, this month has been March Madness, and it's been a hell of a lot of fun.

Chad: Amen, amen. Well, a shout-out. Last shout-out goes to free stuff, that's right, free t-shirts from Aaron App, free beer and whiskey that are coming to your front door, beer from AspenTech Labs, Whiskey from Textkernel, one bottle from Joel, one bottle from me. And if it's your birthday, could win rum from our pals at Plum.

SFX: Can you feel the tension in the air right now? I know I can. I can feel it all the way down in my plums.

Joel: Alright, a few listeners are celebrating another trip around the sun, eclipse, solar eclipse, I don't know, I don't know if there's any tie in there. Todd Burns, Amy English, Arno Schaefer, Derek Christensen, Rob McIntosh, Louis Nobreck, and Patrick York.

SFX: Happy birthday!

Joel: There we go. All celebrate a birthday this week, happy birthday to you guys.

Chad: Excellent. Well, I'm not gonna be going anywhere for the eclipse because we're getting ready to go to Vegas, my friend, we're getting ready to go to Vegas.

Joel: Yes, we are. Yes, we are.

Joel: Unleash America is coming to Las Vegas again, May 7th through the 9th. The day before on March 6th, Joel and I are gonna get high. No, not that kind of high, we're going to the top of the stratosphere and we're jumping over 800 feet to earth with our friend Matt Bauer, the CEO from Outhire, that's right. Outhire. What's more is that Outhire is paying for our listeners to join us do the jump. So if you want to register to win or nominate maybe your boss or a friend to jump with us, go to, it's right there in the hero header. Click the Jump With Us button right on the homepage. Register and come see us then. Come see us fall to earth. Then on Tuesday, May 7th, this is where Kibu comes in, we're heading to the Minus5 bar with Job Pixel and great people. More details to come, but I'm telling you right now, we're gonna feel like we're in Finland, it's gonna be cold, we're gonna have the big fluffy jackets, I guarantee you. And then last but not least, on May 8th, we're joining our friends over at Plum, at the neon boneyard, you love Little Neon, here's Little Chad and Cheese Neon, where we're gonna be drinking, eating, and basking in the evening glow of Las Vegas's iconic retired neon signs. You know those old neon signs that you thought they got rid of? Oh, they didn't get rid of them, kids, they're all in a neon boneyard. Google "neon boneyard." Check it out, it is freaking awesome. Us there with our friends from Plum, it's gonna be a great unleash.

Joel: It is gonna be great, but I heard nothing after, jumping to your death, from your first segment. I'm trying... So there's a weight limit of 265, I think. I'm trying to... I'm gonna see how many burritos it takes to get to a point where I get on the scale and they're like, dude, you're too heavy, sorry, sorry. And if not, I need to invest in some Depends because I'm going to shit my pants when I jump... When I jump off this thing. Oh God, is that it for announcements?

Chad: That's it.

Joel: Alright, we got some red meat for the listeners this week. Indeed has revamped its user profile page, introducing an AI-powered writer to enhance work experience descriptions and supporting multiple resumes. It also launched smart sourcing suites for recruiters, including AI powered candidate summaries and custom messages aiming to reduce relevant outreach and streamline hiring processes. Chad, what are your thoughts from the latest upgrades at Indeed?

Chad: This is nothing more than just window dressing at the top of the funnel. Why is Indeed making more of an effort to move down funnel? AI resumes, full of hallucinations and easy applies, that's a recipe for fucking disaster. How does any of that help companies find the right candidates? Well, it just doesn't. So if Indeed wanted to make a real impact, they would move down funnel, partner with platforms like Tavio or HackerRank to start gathering skills and performance data that actually matters. Coding tests, performance tests, gather the data that employers actually fucking need. Also, from this article, I thought it was interesting, was mentioned in the story as a competitor.

Joel: It was, yeah.

Chad: I mean, come on, man, so many of these aggregators are just Indeed, PilotFish, they're collecting the crumbs, they're not innovating, they're not moving the needle, and they're definitely not competitors. So if you, and "competitors," if you wanna compete with Indeed, beat them to the punch, go down funnel, collect the data that employers and LLMs, yes, large language models, will use to make relevant matches better. The reason why I hate on Indeed so hard is because they have the means to change this industry, and yet they're changing the drapes in the fucking basement. For example, interview scheduling, they talk about interview scheduling in this. In 2024, interview scheduling should be a fucking afterthought, when a candidate applies for a job, answer some prescreening, prequal questions they should meet... If they meet the requirements, they should have an "Interview now" button that pops up and it takes you directly to a qualify, a pillar, or a vet for interview. I mean, we should be cutting corners, as opposed to just playing the window dressing game. And that's all Indeed's doing, and I fucking hate that.

S7: 60% of the time. It works every time.

Chad: Tell us how you really feel, Chad.

Chad: Both barrels.

Joel: So I view this as, Google came out and struck out against the job board industry and job postings. And that seems to be alleviated for the most part. Like Google has said, we're not getting into pay-per-click, we'll let you guys still put your job postings in our search. So now it's like, what's the other front of Indeed's war that they need to think about? And that's LinkedIn, in my opinion. So to me, both of these updates are reactions to what LinkedIn is failing to do or has effectively crushed outside of its walled garden. So with job search, LinkedIn job search sucks, it's related searches or recommendations are awful. So if I'm Indeed, I already have a better job search than LinkedIn does, so what does LinkedIn do that I can do better? Well, on LinkedIn, I can have generally one profile, right? And now Indeed comes out with, oh, now you can have five resumes, so if you want one to be focused on a specific skill, you can, if you want another resume, a specific... Personally, this can go really bad, five resumes per person.

Chad: It's stupid.

Joel: But at least in theory, it's a strike against LinkedIn because LinkedIn only has one profile. So that is a differentiator, whether it's worthy or not of competing with LinkedIn, I guess we'll find out, but it is a move to go after LinkedIn. I think the bigger product or upgrade is the sourcing tool, which, from at least one insider that I talked to at Indeed, they're really focused on the sourcing stuff, they're really batting down the hatches, all hands on deck kind of thing.

Chad: Well, that's a LinkedIn thing. They want to take away recruiter seats.

Joel: And that's exactly a LinkedIn thing. So we've talked about LinkedIn effectively crushing every other third-party solution that uses its data. The SeekOuts of the world, the Hiretools, the hire... He's like... So Indeed has said, look, we can't let LinkedIn just own this sourcing thing, we have a hell of a lot of resumes too, so how do we keep people in our ecosystem searching our resumes and then sourcing, effectively messaging, et cetera, to those people? So this entire move for me from Indeed is a strike at LinkedIn. I think the sourcing is really interesting, I think the job search, like you said, is lipstick on a pig, but they've got LinkedIn in their sights, clearly, and I don't think this is the last strike that they're going to make on LinkedIn.

Chad: Well, how you make sourcing better is better data for better matches. We already know their matching is shit, it's probably not as bad as LinkedIn's, but their matching is already shit. They need better data to be able to bump up against. Having five resumes is fucking stupid. I mean, it's like back to the future. How many pieces of shit can we throw out there for people to actually look at? I don't care. What I care is, do they meet the requirements, and do they have the skills, and can they perform? That's it, right? And then go ahead and get me right into the interview, and at that point, we can see if there's a match, okay? That's it, guys, it's that fucking simple. But what they're doing is they're playing up top, at the top of the funnel. And that doesn't fucking matter. None of it matters. None of it matters, so go down funnel. And again, for all the talent.coms that are out there, the Adzunas, I mean, even companies who don't even look like Indeed competitors, go down funnel, get that data because the market is all about the large language models and being able to grind that data pool, that new data that LinkedIn doesn't have, that Indeed doesn't have, get that data so you win.

Joel: I don't think Chad's impressed, everybody. I don't think Chad's impressed at all.

Chad: You don't think... You don't?

Joel: Let's get to LinkedIn's news and see if that impresses you. LinkedIn is testing TikTok-style video options aiming to help users discover timely videos. The feature will appear next to the "Home" button and resembles TikTok and Instagram Reels. LinkedIn plans to provide more information about the new service very soon. So Chad, are you ready to karaoke and dance to LinkedIn's TikTok competitor?

Chad: They had a version of Instagram Reels at one time, and then they just trashed that, why are they doing this? I mean, is TikTok stealing stickiness from them? Do they see that TikTok has stickiness that they want? And we talked about last week, it feels like Indeed is going more toward trying to be sticky for advertising dollars, right? To be able to keep people on platform, to be able to get those advertising dollars. And one of the things that we also talked about was that LinkedIn doesn't stick with some of these big projects that they put in place, they need to hire someone with discipline, focused, and damned patience, for God's sake. Some of the ideas actually do make sense if they're implemented well, but right now, I put our videos on TikTok and then I put the same ones on LinkedIn already, so I mean, I don't understand how this is gonna change behavior at all.

Joel: So a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I thought LinkedIn bailed on video too soon, they've already tried you said, Reels, I would have called them sort of Snapchat stories, that they quickly got rid of. And I feel like with our video experience, our shorts, and you're seeing more and more shorts because every podcasting platform will create shorts for you... So we're gonna see more of that in every industry, and bailing on that was a bad idea because you could have seen where the world was going, and bailing on it was the wrong decision. It looks like now they're gonna basically relaunch some sort of video shorts system, they'll probably have it more in the main feed, they won't just have it as circles at the top that are out of the main feed area. It'll increase engagement, it'll increase interest in advertising. Agencies love these videos, small companies can make these videos really quickly. AI is gonna make a lot more videos, some of these shorts. So I think it's a good move. They never should have got out of it, in my opinion.

Joel: Now, the second thing they need to do is the live video stuff because they're awful at it and they should be really good at it. By all accounts, you have to use a third party to even stream on LinkedIn, they should have their own thing. And by the way, X, which I know you love, is getting better at the live video, live conversations, and that is gonna be something that LinkedIn needs to do well. So this is the first step into video, they need to work out like having webinars and podcasts like this live, live streamed on LinkedIn. And I think they've got something that's pretty interesting. Otherwise, let's hope they don't bail on this like they did... The stories that they had six months to a year ago.

Chad: Yeah, well, I see, once again, on the advertising side of the house, this gives another vehicle to be able to do ads, right? So not just for us to be able to do podcast snippets or shorts or what have you, but this is going to allow ads, those guacamole ads that we saw, that were static guacamole ads, we're gonna get a commercial on LinkedIn. So again, I really see this turning into more of an advertising platform and literally pivoting in some respects away from the recruitment space because there's a hell of a lot more money in advertising, if they can hold on to those recruiter seats, which we all know HR is really fucking slow to move in the first place, but then also go after the very quick hit of the marketing side of the house, then that does make sense. We'll see if it works, though.

Joel: Look, historically, LinkedIn sucks at advertising. I mean, they still have those little like box ads on the right. It's like, come on. So yeah getting something video, something interactive, every agency will say, let's give LinkedIn another look, where we haven't done anything on there in a long time, so.

Chad: Take that Twitter money, that Twitter... We've seen reports where they have actually taken Twitter money... And I say "they," those are companies who used to spend money on Twitter, and they want to spend it on platforms like LinkedIn. LinkedIn wants to give them the opportunity so that they can get that fucking Twitter cash.

Joel: Yep, and integrating into advertising platforms. Look, companies are going to want to make a single TikTok ad. And how do I put it on Twitter? How do I put it on LinkedIn? So they want to be able to shotgun it everywhere. And LinkedIn needs to have something that they can put their ad...

Joel: All right, let's take a quick break.

Joel: All right, Chad, it's buy or sell, you know how we play the game, we listen to three companies that have recently gotten money and we read a summary and then we either buy or sell the company. And for whatever reason, I can't find my boxer. Oh, there it is. There it is, all right. All right. Now I'm in the mood to play some buy or sell. All right, number one, we got London-based Metaview, one of your faves from a recent firing squad, they're an AI assistant for streamlining hiring processes. They've raised $7 million in funding, the funds will accelerate product development and the team growth. They say they're already saving teams at least 20 hours per hire. Chad, you weren't much of a fan, like I said, but they're giving you 7 million new reasons why you should change your mind, buy or sell Metaview.

Chad: Yeah, it's funny because we spoke with Jason Corsello earlier this week from Acadian Ventures, and he was talking about... On the seed side, there's a lot of... It's hot, there's a lot of money that's going to be spent on the seed side because people want to spend that money. You said it last week, just on the IPO side, right? So people want to spend money. But in a world of generative AI, platforms like Google, Microsoft, Anthropic, Mistral, and Meta are going to win unless, unless you have the secret sauce, and that secret sauce is years of data, like, for example, ATS and CRM companies, behavioral data. Metaview is way too late to the party, the beer's gone, all the hot chicks are passed out, the one thing Metaview has going for them is a great CEO, and that's not enough for me, it's still... Even with those 7 million reasons, it's still a sell for me.

Joel: All right, Chad. And interview intelligence is hot, I don't know if you've heard it. I hang out with a lot of kids that are talking about interview intelligence a lot. Now, I think some solutions that have been around a while, BrightHire, full disclosure, I'm an advisor, Honeit have evolved this thing a lot longer, I think, or further along than Metaview is. But it's a wave that is going to get a lot of attention and funding, and it's going to be an acquisition target for somebody in the next two to three years. So if the mission is, sell this thing at 7 million, could they sell it for 50? I guess we'll see BrightHire probably go off first. Hineit's been around a while. Nick must just love running that business and not selling it. But for me, I think it's a buy, I think it's a wave that is easy to surf, even though the surfer in this case is maybe not the best surfer in the world. But for me, yeah, I gotta...

S8: What are you doing, Stefano?

Joel: I gotta buy it, I gotta buy it. All right, that is Metaview. Next up we have Modal.

Chad: Modal.

Joel: Modal Learning, a startup founded by two ex-Udemy executives, have secured 25 million in series A funding, which brings their total to $32 million. Modal offers a platform focused on enhancing employees' technical skills with courses on generative AI, data management, and analytics, among others. Chad buy or sell, Modal?

Chad: I can't stop myself, I've got to buy, buy, buy. And let me tell you why, all companies are tech companies. We just had a great conversation with Mark Chaffey, CEO over at Hackajob earlier this week. And he said that Walmart is pretty much absorbing tech talent that guys like your buddy, Zuck, are cutting, and those tech people will need to keep their skills up to date, they will need to advance those skills because they need to stay with the velocity of today's tech. Plus there are all those other nontech technical skills that all employees will have to get trained on. Last but never the least, you mentioned it, Shimkus and Yang, ex Udemy president and CEO, are founders. This is too easy, this is exactly in their warehouse, they've sold something like this before. Buy, buy, buy.

Joel: All right. Chad is a buy on Modal.

Chad: Buy, buy, buy.

Joel: Yeah, look, interview intelligence is hot, upscaling is even hotter, there's going to be a lot of money flowing into this. Companies want to grow their own, they're tired of spending money on recruiting and recruiters and agencies. Like, why can't we just educate our own folks and get them further up the corporate ladder? Look, this is an idea that's proven, you've got Gusto, Gloat, LinkedIn Learning, Degreed, Coursera, it's a proven model. The only risk to these guys is they just get crushed by whoever becomes Coke and Pepsi of the upskilling world, and they just become a consolidation play. I think there's going to be a lot of room for companies. They do have a pricing model that is sort of unique, they only charge companies when employees successfully complete a course. So there's little bit of like there is no risk, you're only going to pay when someone completes a course...

Chad: I'll come to base.

Joel: Which is going to be very favorable to a lot of companies. So yeah, for me as well, this is a winner, this is a winner. All right. Our last company, you're going to love these guys, Home From College, that's right, the name of the company is Home From College, a Los Angeles-based career platform. They've raised $5.4 million in seed funding. The platform caters to, you guessed it, Gen Z, offering part-time and full-time roles, and serves clients like Poppy, Aquifer and Steve Madden. Nothing says cool like a pair of Steve Maddens, everybody. With the cash, Home for College plans to expand the team and add more products for job seekers. Chad, buy or sell Home From College?

Chad: Wow, man. $5.4 million in seed, that's a lot of cash, but the problem is, college is transient, you're in college until you're not, and then you stop using your old college job systems, then you moved on... Then you move on to LinkedIn, Indeed, Hackajob or wherever the people in your industry gravitate. So that being said, you need to either partner closely with colleges and universities or spend shit-tons of cash on marketing month after month after month to maintain market penetration, I personally have experience in building these types of college recruiting systems, nightmares, working directly with colleges, universities, career center directors, and employers who have teams that are focused on hiring from the university. And I promised myself I would never fucking do that again. This is a sell, very easily for me.

Joel: Fair enough. All right, I'll make it quick because we got a lot of show left to go. I hate the name, I hate the college, I hate the college environment. You're right, every few years, there's a new player, handshake.

Chad: When was the last time we heard from them?

Joel: Yeah, like Monster Track or whatever the fuck that... It's just bad business, I hate targeting generationally, it just... It's silly to me. Look, there's already a resume builder out there, it's called LinkedIn, and it already has all the people who are gonna hire you on it, so don't mess around with some home from college site to build your resume. Go to LinkedIn and build your resume there and keep it updated and connect with people. It's such a much better product. Do you remember VisualCV from back in the day?

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: This thing has been tried and tried again, so for this, yeah, you can guess I'm a big sell on Home from College, at least it's a dot com, so you can remember that.

Chad: That's right, kids. Grandpa says, get your profile on LinkedIn.

Joel: That's right.

Chad: All right, let's talk...

S8: Talk about food.

Joel: Talk a little food, shall we? A little fast food, a little quick-serve action. First up, we have Waffle House. The Union of Southern Service Workers has filed a petition against Waffle House, alleging the chain deducts mandatory meal costs from workers' paychecks even if the meals aren't eaten. Workers are charged at least $3 per on-shift meal, impacting those on a tipped subminimum wage. Chad, your thoughts and what's your go-to meal at Waffle House? Because I know there's about "10."

Chad: Yeah, there's splattered and scattered and splattered and all that other fun stuff, but yeah, this is from the Waffle House employee manual, "Meals must be consumed at the restaurant, and no food can be taken home under the meal policy. Any food actually taken home by such an associate will be considered a to-go order and must be paid full price." Number one, any company that says that stupid shit right outta the gate, it's like, fuck off. But then the Union of Southern Services workers called it "especially alarming," since, as you had said, these workers make a subminimum wage. What is a subminimum wage, kids? It's $2.90 an hour. Yes, Europe, yes, Europe, you think you get fucked sometimes? $2.90 an hour plus tips. But it's a Waffle House, we're talking tips at a Waffle House, this is not upscale, okay?

Joel: No one's ordering $200 worth of food at the Waffle House. No.

Chad: No, this to me is just fucking ridiculous, where the center of gravity for where these Waffle Houses are. Georgia has 381, South Carolina, 144, North Carolina, 142, Florida, 133, and Alabama, 128. It's in the South, it's in the South, the impoverished. If you take a look at where most poverty is in the US, it's in the South. And Waffle House, you're not helping, you're not helping.

S9: Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Joel: Let's get these numbers right here. So Waffle House is a $4 billion a year company.

Chad: Is that profit?

Joel: Its chair, a guy named Joe Rogers Jr., is worth $1.7 billion. If this is true, Waffle House earns the douchebag company of the year award because Chad's right, if you haven't been to Waffle House, you're missing out kids. It's good people.

Chad: Yes.

Joel: A lot of times, this is the only company that will hire them. I've never had a bad experience from an employee at Waffle House.

Chad: Well, okay. It's usually at 2:00 AM in the morning.

Joel: The right answer is the biscuits and gravy, by the way, in terms of best thing at Waffle House. But yeah, look, if it's true, Waffle House didn't come out and say, this is not true. They didn't say, this is why, or, we make it up. So by all accounts, this is true, Waffle House hasn't come, and they have a PR department, I'm sure. So yeah, this is bullshit, I hope the union gets what they deserve, I hope this practice stops because inevitably, it's wage theft.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: At worst, and maybe at best, it's corporate greed, but it's a practice that's really stupid, it needs to stop.

Chad: It's both.

Joel: Let's be honest. Making a pile of pancakes at Waffle House probably costs them 30 cents, right?

Chad: Maybe.

Joel: And so like 3 bucks, it's just... I don't know, it's just really... It's really bad, it's really bad. Waffle House, I gotta go to IHOP now.

Chad: Let's go to the other side of the pendulum. Let's talk about California.

Joel: Alright, yeah. I gotta go to Cracker Barrel now. All right, in California, about half a million fast-food workers are now making at least $20 per hour, thanks to a new law that raises wages for restaurant change with more than 60 nationwide locations. The law also establishes a fast-food council, a first in the US, to annually adjust wages in line with inflation or up to 3.5%, and to address worker safety and other issues. Owners of some fast-food franchise locations have already increased prices or cut worker hours in response to the higher wages. Chad, does this drive you to Californication or is it just a little California dreaming?

Chad: Yeah, so over the years, we've been told a bunch of lies, a lot of myths. If we pay these people living wages, we're gonna have to go out of business, we're going to have to raise the food rates, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Well, in November of 2013, yes, over 10 years ago, SeaTac passed Prop 1, which authorized a $15 minimum wage policy, which was phased in over several years. The policy went into effect in January of 2014. Six months later, the larger Seattle City Council expanded a similar $15 minimum wage policy to nearly 20,000 workers. So this is a great model to look at as we look at predicting outcomes because this took place more than 10 years ago. Did that kill restaurants? No. Since 2015, the number of restaurants is actually up in Seattle 5%. That's over 3200 restaurants. Annual sales increased by 20%. Seattle's job growth have outpaced the rest of Washington State. So now, let's go back to Cali. Cali, Cali. The new...

Joel: Cali, I don't think so.

Chad: Cali, $20 per hour minimum wage. The last time California raised the minimum wage to $16, guess what happened? Profits went up. Why? Where do you think these people buy food? When you put money in people's pockets, they fucking spend it, right? They can buy more. So owners should stop bawling up in the fetal position and start researching these models. Many Seattle restaurants are experiencing much lower turnover and higher profits because of this. This is not the shit that Milton Friedman talked about, he had fear in, oh, you're gonna lose people, and all the money has to go to the top. Fuck off, Milton, I hope you're turning over in your goddamn grave right now because you were wrong. We need to pay the people.

Joel: He's with Jack Welch and not very happy about your words coming outta your mouth. There are a couple things I don't like about this, I don't like that there's a rule that if you serve just bread alone, you're immune to this...

Chad: That's weird.

Joel: Which means Panera...

Chad: That's weird.

Joel: Which means Panera bread gets a pass from this. And apparently Newsom and the Panera. So there's some politics here that I don't like particularly, but everything else you should like. Look, you have to have 60-plus locations, so that means it's not killing the mom and pop barbecue down the street, it's not killing the tacoria, favorite downtown, whatever establishment. So these are mainly big companies with a lot of money, a lot of resources. And so the fear-mongering was, the prices are gonna go insane, you're not gonna be able to afford it. So we have our first indication of what price increases mean. There was an In-N-Out burger preApril 1st and postApril 1st in terms of prices, so I think I'm paying 10 cents more for a cheeseburger, I'm paying like 5 cents more for a hamburger, maybe 20 cents more for a shake. Fries didn't go up, so potatoes must be doing very well growing wise.

Chad: Cheap.

Joel: So it's not like my cheeseburger went from 3.99 to 10.99. So the price increases are negligible. These folks that have a hard time making a living will now be able to do so. By the way, we know that when poor people get more money, they spend it, they spend it on food and gas and consumables and iPads and...

Chad: Imagine that.

Joel: Yeah, so most of this is gonna come back into the cycle. When you give rich people a lot of money, they put it in a bank or they store it.

Chad: They don't spend it.

Joel: They don't just spend it, so giving money to people without means is usually a good thing to keep the economy robust. Now, what will be interesting to see... So I don't think there's any Armageddon, I don't think the sky is falling, I think everything is gonna be fine. Frankly, $20 should be 25, we've talked about that a few times on the show.

Chad: Especially in California.

Joel: But 20 is not quite enough, especially in California. I do think they should use this as a recruiting tool to get people to move to California because of the higher minimum wage, get people leaving Texas and Florida. So who's gonna serve your Barbara Cobol if they're all in California making more money? I think that's interesting. This is being politicized big time.

Chad: Go figure.

Joel: The New York Post, right-wing entertaining publication, in the last... Their headline was, California Fast Food Minimum Wage Laws Already A Disaster And New York Wants Some of it Too. So this is gonna be politicized, but there's no skies falling situation in California. No one is... Now, will some people lose their job? Probably, I think the best people will stay, and maybe some of the worst will be let go, there'll be some people that are sacrificed for this. Prices don't blow up, like I think people have been fearful of. I do think it will increase or accelerate the investment in robots, I think that's inevitable no matter where we are. People just hate employing people no matter how much they're paying them. The interesting thing will be in 10 years when we're hopefully not doing the show anymore, but what do fast food places look like? Is it like a really small group of professionals that make really good salaries and they're managing the robots and the customer service. Restaurants will probably look much different than they do today.

Chad: Probably.

Joel: But whether we're doing the show to talk about it? I don't know. But this is a good thing, people, this is a good thing.

Chad: Yeah, I'll be on the beach in Portugal, where we don't have fast food, so I won't give a fuck, no matter what. Listening to Ki Boo.

Joel: Yeah. I do enjoy the occasional Burger King when I'm in Europe, though.

Chad: Oh, yeah.

Joel: In five, guys.

Joel: All right, Chad, Amazon is removing Just Walk Out technology from its Amazon Fresh stores and replacing them with smart carts that allow customers to skip the checkout line but see their spending in real time. The change comes after customer feedback and is part of a revamp of the grocery chain. Just Walk Out technology will be available in Amazon Go stores and some smaller Amazon Fresh stores in the UK, as well as to third-party retailers. But by all accounts, this program is on the ropes. Chad, your thoughts on Amazon's latest move?

Chad: Yeah, I think the smart carts are incredibly smart, I just hope it's not like enemy of the state, where they have cameras all over the place watching and... I mean that just gets a little bit too dystopian for me. But yeah, to be able to see innovation come to grocery shopping, the only thing that we've seen in innovation for grocery shopping, obviously, the back office stuff and then also inventory, those types of things. That makes a lot of sense, but the self-checkouts, which they're going to be scaling back on, so will this be the replacement for a self checkout possibly in the future? Don't know, but it'll be interesting to watch, that's for damn sure.

Joel: Yeah. Clearly self-serve is in flux, the panacea of like, let people check themselves out, no cashiers, or just walk out the door is not really built for human beings. Human beings are like, just stand in... Stand at your local self-serve checkout area when you have some spare time. People are like, they don't scan it right, they take it off the weigh thing.

Chad: Takes forever. Yeah.

Joel: And they're gonna start over. Like it's six people checking out, there's one person that has to handle six people, two of them don't know what the hell they're doing, the third needs age verification because they're buying alcohol. You end up being in this infinite loop of waiting for the person to check you out and waiting for them... And then people just aren't met for self-service. And so you see Dollar Store, Target... Walmart are like, we're phasing some of this out. And I think this has been an experiment by Amazon that probably hasn't gone the way that they hoped. Look, Amazon did a lot of crazy stuff when Bezos was at the helm, whether it was like Whole Foods, MGM Studios. Why? I guess they're getting into media more, the Fire phone, remember? Nobody bought.

Chad: No.

Joel: And fortunately, under Jassy, they focused on three things that are really successful for them. E-commerce, AWS, and advertising. People don't understand, Amazon is like the third-largest advertising platform out there. Those are really good profitable businesses that aren't a pain in the ass. So like this whole Whole Foods checkout thing has gotta be a pain in the ass that they don't want to deal with, but they have to because they spent, how many billions on Whole Foods? So they have to think about this. I don't know if this will work, I'm not hopeful for humanity to get a... I'm gonna take a cart and it's gonna track what I put in the cart, and then I can just walk out. When do I put my credit card? You've seen videos of the Just Walk Out, where people were like, what do I do? Just walk out?

Chad: Just walk out.

Joel: I think there was a... There was a comedy about some black people, they were like, wait, no, no, no, I'm not just walking out. Where do I pay for this?

Chad: Yeah. No shit, right?

Joel: No, I'm not falling for this.

Chad: Historically, historically, I'm not walking out with shit.

Joel: Right. Yeah. I'm not doing that. Where's the camera? Am I getting punked here?

Chad: Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking. A setup.

Joel: So I think Amazon needs to focus on what they do well get rid of these hubris inducing side projects and get back to basics, but they're not the only big company having a little bit of an image problem or what the hell they're gonna be when they grow up problem. Apple, the largest company on the planet, is exploring the development of a mobile robot that can follow users around their homes and a robotic smart display for homes, but it is still in the early stages and not yet committed to releasing these products. The company has been under pressure to find new sources of revenue, and sees robotics as a potential opportunity to expand its presence in the home market. The focus on AI and machine learning is part of Apple's strategy for future growth, but the company has yet not committed to either project. Chad, are you ready for Apple robots following you around in your house? And more than that, are your dogs ready for a robot to follow you around in your house?

Chad: Yeah, the only thing I could think of is the Jetsons and Rosie, their robot that followed them around. You would have thought that was really cool. Now I have my own place, my own dogs, and I don't need that. I've got robots that vacuum my carpet and can possibly mop my floor, but I don't need any of that other shit. Sometimes, I wanna unplug my Google Home just because the fucker listens to me all the time, so I think this is literally a bridge too far for me, at least, I'm just not sure how long it's gonna take for society to start... Well, first and foremost, the cost, right? So the cost is gonna be... Is gonna be a factor, but will society be comfortable with having something like that in the house all the time? I don't know. I just know that I won't.

Joel: Can I have sex with a robot, and does it look like Jennifer Aniston? Is the question I guess that I have for this thing. Obviously, it's not.

Chad: We'll connect with your OnlyFans page.

Joel: Look, part of me feels bad for these big companies that have to make these huge swings. They can't just dabble in stuff. And Apple, post Steve Jobs, it's like AirPods and technically, the watch that have been successful, which are really extensions of the iPhone. Look, they've dabbled in TVs, they're rumored to get into that.

Chad: Cars.

Joel: They were rumored to have cars.

Chad: Yeah. Not happening.

Joel: Apple Home was a thing, CarPlay should be a thing, they just can't get it right.

Chad: Nope.

Joel: And this ain't it. Look, the Vision Pros, dead on arrival, I haven't heard anything about them since they launched. I wear glasses, Chad, and my latest pair is the Meta Ray-Ban glasses, which are great because you don't really know they're smart glasses. I can listen to music or podcasts as my wife yells at me about how I didn't mow the yard right. I'm just listening to that. I can take pictures and video. That's the kind of thing Apple needs to develop, they need to buy Warby Parker or partner with Prada or Dolce Gabbana and create smart glasses that are like that, that are cool, you don't really know they're there. These big swings are messing them up. I guess as a final thought, maybe Amazon and Apple could partner and create a penis rocket that can follow me around my house. That, my friends, sounds like a home run. And with that, we out.

Chad: Out.

S10: Wow look at you, you made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast or maybe you cheated and fast-forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back, valuable time you could've used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell, enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey, or just watch big-booty Latinas, and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads, instead now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away, and like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.


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