Zoom & Workday Get Busy

Heat waves, robots, Rottweilers, and rock bands with zero original members — just another week on HR’s Most Dangerous Podcast. Chad & Cheese are back on the road in Dallas, breaking down everything from kung-fu Chinese robots and their drunk Russian counterparts… to why Zoom gobbling up BrightHire actually makes sense… to Meta grading employees on their AI usage… to Verizon axing 15,000 people while pretending everything’s fine.

Plus: Scotland stuns Denmark, fantasy football humiliation resumes, dating apps become job boards (yes, really), and Joel tells the most dad-joke dad joke of all time.

Buckle up. This episode swerves harder than a tripod Rottweiler in an Oceanside bar.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Joel (00:34.172)

Yeah, we can barely see the road from the heat coming on. It's the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel quiet piggy cheese.

Chad Sowash (00:44.622)

This is Chad. Give me some of those robots. So long.

Joel (00:47.986)

And on this episode of HR's Most Dangerous Podcast, who's zooming who? Can you fire me now? And swiping right just might lead to a new job. Let's do this!

Chad Sowash (01:02.808)

quick check your mic to make sure that you're on the right mic.

Joel (01:08.925)

Do

Joel (01:12.198)

Yep, I am. I will check system settings as well. Does it sound muted or?

Chad Sowash (01:19.296)

No, I was just making sure, because it's a new mic. All good.

Joel (01:20.806)

Yeah, I I did make sure before.

Chad Sowash (01:25.858)

do the same myself.

Joel (01:26.726)

Yeah, USB, USB, yeah, everything says mic. Okay. Texas baby, what's up? We are in the state of McConaughey.

Chad Sowash (01:30.222)

Okay, cool. Cut that out, kids. And hit it.

Chad Sowash (01:36.813)

Who?

Chad Sowash (01:40.962)

And that's not a backdrop kids. That's not a back, well, it's, mean, it's the background. It's not a backdrop.

Joel (01:46.952)

downtown Dallas Dallas Dallas feels like the road warrior without the apocalypse or like the apocalypse hasn't happened yet. It's just such a it's like a church as big as Madison Square Garden next to a water burger next to a shooting range, you know next to like an abandoned building. Gotta gotta love, Texas.

Chad Sowash (01:49.666)

Damn it.

Chad Sowash (02:08.462)

Well, dude, it's a shock to the system after going to San Francisco, San Diego, and then you come to Dallas. It's a fucking shock to the system. Yeah.

Joel (02:13.458)

Yep.

Joel (02:18.022)

Yeah, California and Texas, very, very, very, very different, very different. Yeah. so we're on our last leg of 20, 25 travel. we're at the RL 100, any takeaways? It's just, it's just good to talk AI all day. see old friends, make some new ones.

Chad Sowash (02:22.227)

Oil and water, literally oil and water.

Chad Sowash (02:40.814)

Yeah, to some extent. I yeah, I mean, some amazing speakers, especially love, love to hear practitioners get up and and obviously, you know, give us kind of like their thoughts on different things in the industry, but then also the ones in the crowd. And we've gotten tons of like crowd interaction, which is exactly what these shows are supposed to be. So yeah, no, I just fucking love it, dude. It is it's awesome. Let's see.

our buddy Tyler Weeks from Marriott. He actually went to San Francisco and San Diego with us. Heavy hit for that guy, heavy hitter.

Joel (03:12.029)

Yep.

Joel (03:18.65)

huh. You know what I love is you're, mean, obviously you remember the old direct employer meetings in the basement of treasure Island, that the people were like honest, open, transparent about what works, what doesn't asking quite like thoughtful questions. And, no one really, no one that I know does that anymore. this is one of the few, conferences where you can really not worry about getting the hard sell.

Chad Sowash (03:25.939)

yeah. huh. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (03:36.12)

Yep. Yeah.

Joel (03:48.156)

getting recorded, getting called out. It's a really cool environment. Shout out to Jamie and the gang for getting it done.

Chad Sowash (03:55.438)

and you don't have to be a member, right? So you don't have to pay like a membership fee to be associated to it. It's like, literally it shows up, you know, in your town and you signed up and you just, you just go.

Joel (04:04.337)

Mm-hmm.

Joel (04:08.379)

The only price to pay is David Ralph's stories. You have to listen to David Ralph's endless Irish stories.

Chad Sowash (04:14.07)

my God, my God. So we gotta put this out there because this is the funniest story ever. So we're in Oceanside and we're playing pool. We're at this bar and I went to the bathroom. Apparently Dave went to a Rottweiler. This Rottweiler was a foster and it had three legs. Beautiful, beautiful baby dog. no, nope, nope, that's real, that's real.

Joel (04:23.623)

Mm-hmm.

Joel (04:35.399)

thought you made up the three legs thing. That's real. So it goes to up to a tripod Rottweiler. Okay.

Chad Sowash (04:40.494)

He starts petting it, giving a little, ooh baby doggy, that kind of thing. And must've rubbed it kind of weird because the dog kind of like snapped at him and it freaked him the fuck out. So he and a myriad of the women that were with us were in the bathroom fixing this, cause he got bit, right? So about 15 minutes later,

Joel (04:51.665)

huh.

Joel (05:04.153)

huh.

Chad Sowash (05:06.766)

I expect him to come out and it looked like he's been mauled, like hamburger on the side of his face or something like that. You couldn't even tell he, it wasn't even a graze for God's sakes. I'm like Dave Ralph.

Joel (05:19.173)

It was but a flesh wound. It was but a flesh wound.

Dave Ralph, Dave Ralph. All right, let's get the shout out, shall we?

Chad Sowash (05:25.372)

I Dave Ralph. Love Dave Ralph.

Joel (05:32.22)

I'll go ahead and go first. My shout out goes out to Leonard Skinnerd and Foreigner. This may not be what you think, Chad. You know I like a good live show. You know like a good rock show. Travel far and wide to hear the music. This is the first ever like tour where there are no original members of the bands. Like zero. None of the original members. So.

Chad Sowash (05:42.754)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joel (05:59.432)

I, it's kind of an open discussion. Is this okay? Is this the future? Like you got to at least have the bass player or somebody that's, you know, 90 years old. Yeah. It's basically a cover band. So I, I don't like this. I, I don't like it. I don't like it. Go, go see, you know, uh, Leonard Fakert or whatever, like go see no Asus. can, you can enjoy band, but, the bait and switch of you're going to see at least somebody.

Chad Sowash (06:03.022)

No, no, no.

It's a cover band.

It's a cover band.

Now.

Chad Sowash (06:20.332)

Yeah.

Joel (06:27.783)

that was, you know, in the 1974 rendition of Skinnerd on stage is gone. And I fear that this is, this is the future. And I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't know if it's a get off my lawn thing. I don't know if this is, you know, the future or what, but.

Chad Sowash (06:33.969)

That's ridiculous.

Chad Sowash (06:40.99)

No, I don't think so. This is...

Chad Sowash (06:45.688)

This is truth in advertising. mean, they're playing Lynyrd Skynyrd songs, but I can go down to a bar and see that anytime. I mean, it's a fucking cover band. If they aren't real band members, for God sakes, then it's not Lynyrd Skynyrd or Ario Speedway.

Joel (07:02.151)

The free bird is not very free if no one from the original Scandered is on stage. That hurts.

Chad Sowash (07:05.71)

Mmm.

That hurts. That hurts. That hurts. Okay.

My shout out goes to robots and a Chinese company literally just showcased one of their newest, it looks like, Kung Fu robots. Go ahead and show this. Check it out. It's fucking awesome.

Joel (07:25.879)

Yeah, it does. God.

Chad Sowash (07:32.674)

Look at him. Boom.

Joel (07:35.237)

There's a flip. There's some sort of flippy thing, dance move.

Chad Sowash (07:39.149)

Jesus.

Joel (07:42.715)

God, Kevin Bacon would be proud.

Chad Sowash (07:44.91)

Watch him get up. He gets up faster than I do. Shit.

Joel (07:47.079)

Yeah.

He gets up faster than I do. Yeah, 54. I hope it's faster.

Chad Sowash (07:51.874)

Hahaha

Hey, I get it pretty fast. but the Russians, they come back and they are not going to take, you know, second string with their robots. So go ahead and show their robot. They're that's right. That's right.

Joel (07:58.375)

Mm-hmm.

Joel (08:04.997)

No, no, they're a world power baby. First class power Russia, Russia robot. Here we go.

Yeah.

Joel (08:20.135)

It's like my 86 year old dad going to breakfast in the morning.

Chad Sowash (08:22.094)

Point to somebody in the crowd, point to them, there you go. That's you, you.

Joel (08:27.559)

That also looked like my dad going to breakfast. Holy shit.

Chad Sowash (08:33.358)

So if you're not watching on YouTube kids, yeah the Russian Robot looked like it was from the 1970s and literally took a took a face dot

Joel (08:44.099)

The thing is, the Russians aren't dumb, just all the smart ones got the hell out of town when the war started. So like this is what you're going to get. And when you keep out the immigrants and the smart people, H1B is like, I don't know. I fear for the American robots at some point. It could get bad. Yeah, that Russian robot should be free. think that, what was its name? Was it Chad?

Chad Sowash (08:45.526)

Nose dive.

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (08:57.422)

It's gonna say, careful, careful.

Chad Sowash (09:09.934)

No, because it could have done something. But I guarantee you those robot developers probably fell out of a window in Moscow somewhere.

Joel (09:22.757)

Yeah, they were probably disciplined for their efforts. They were not recipients of free stuff, unlike some of our listeners. Chad, let's hear from our friend, Steven, about free stuff.

Chad Sowash (09:30.872)

hello.

Chad Sowash (09:43.256)

Anything to take a shirt off.

Chad Sowash (09:47.49)

I am.

Joel (10:11.471)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (10:40.352)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (10:55.768)

Today, today, we've got to talk about Scotland though, because it's a big thing.

Joel (11:01.755)

Scotland's having a moment for sure.

Chad Sowash (11:04.59)

They took out Denmark in the qualifier, 4-2. 4-2. Now, the coolest part was they leveled it out at 2-all. Denmark had a double yellow card, so the guy got sent off. Next thing you know, Scotland breaks the tie, 3-2. And in the last pretty much minutes of the match, Oldboy is from midfield.

Joel (11:25.351)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (11:32.672)

The keeper gets sucked out of goal and boy throws a shot in from fucking midfield to win four to fucking awesome.

Loved it.

Joel (11:48.466)

So every Scott we know is going to be incorrigible and just painful to live with for the next what two years till they get eliminated, which you know is going to happen. Denmark's a real team though. That was good. That wasn't some Joey bag of donuts football team that they were listening. And speaking of football, Chad.

Joel (12:13.425)

That's right. Let's talk, talk a little fantasy football sponsored by our friends at factory fix the rankings aren't changing much. Here we go from first to worst. got Courtney Nappo, Mackenzie, mad dog, Maitland, your boy Joel right here. Number three, three spot David Stiefel. He's what he's making that case for a back to back champion. five, Jada Weiler, Steven McGrath slips a little bit in the rankings, to number six, followed by William Carrington.

Chad Sowash (12:28.654)

Ooh, oogda.

Chad Sowash (12:33.262)

He's trying.

Joel (12:41.755)

You're at number eight Chad. You're moving up from nine to eight. Good for you. Megan Radigan, Jason Putnam, Ginger Dodds and guess who's in last place again? That's right. Jeremy Roberts who almost beat you. that what you told me?

Chad Sowash (12:47.096)

Take that, Megan Radegan.

Chad Sowash (12:56.302)

Oh, and 11. Oh my God, dude. I was supposed to like just kill him, right? was like the, you know, they take a look at the prediction of the score prior. I was supposed to beat him like by 50 points. I think I bought it. I beat him by maybe 10. I don't know. It was fucking horrible. Bad week.

Joel (13:02.343)

huh.

Joel (13:13.499)

Yeah, I shouldn't have won. Jamar Chase, dumb ass, spitting on somebody, got suspended. Anyway, it's a marathon. It's a marathon, fantasy football. Thanks again to our friends at Factory Fix for supporting our unhealthy addiction. We appreciate you so very much. And with that, should we talk a little topics?

Chad Sowash (13:21.88)

Kids these days.

Chad Sowash (13:36.675)

Yes.

Joel (13:48.201)

So Zoom has acquired BrightHire, the AI-powered interview intelligence platform founded back in 2019 and firing squad alum, by the way. Here's our friend, BrightHire CEO, Ben Sesser, to tell us more about the acquisition.

Chad Sowash (16:07.768)

Okay, okay, Jesus Christ, he's gonna take up the entire fucking segment, come on. Jesus Christ, Ben.

Joel (16:15.112)

Typical Ben, said send me a minute video and he gave me two and a half. So what are gonna do? you get definitely get the gist. What are your thoughts on this acquisition Chad?

Chad Sowash (16:20.664)

Jesus Christ.

Chad Sowash (16:25.774)

I mean, it makes a hell of a lot of sense. mean, Zoom bought Workvivo about two years ago. They were starting to move toward this side of the business. And they really have to look for more sticky products. And I think BrightHire just makes them a hell of a lot more sticky from a business suite standpoint, right? And if you take a look at the actual market itself, Zoom owns the...

the different market shares from the standpoint of estimated market share of anywhere from 45 to 55 % where the next closest is Microsoft Teams at 25%. So what does Zoom have to do to continually try to fend off Microsoft and their business suite, right? They've got to build their own. So this is, yeah, this is very interesting. It just makes sense. It's, they're a video company already. So it should flow.

very nicely. think it's funny that Ben's like, we're still going to work with other vendors. They probably won't work with you. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, it just makes a hell of a lot of sense. It's incredibly simple. Will it be sold separately? That's the big question. Or will this be something that, again, they add as a new added feature?

Joel (17:27.784)

So did Canvas, right, when Jobite bought them. Yeah, for a while, for a while.

Chad Sowash (17:48.578)

to Zoom to literally try to make that business suite more sticky and then try to fend off the Microsofts and the Google Meets and those types of things. So we'll see about this, but I think this is a hell of a smart move from Zoom.

Joel (17:53.181)

Yeah.

Joel (18:02.364)

Yeah, it is a hollow move and it's always hard when to analyze these because it's a big company like zoom. It's not an ATS buying paradox or like to to similar. So it's, it's a little bit hard to analyze what's going to happen in terms of the brand or they got to keep it or not. certainly I'd say for a year or so we'll still have bright hire. It'll still be a standalone product, but a lot of those, those, I assume features will be built in to zoom.

I have three main thoughts on the Zoom bright hire deal. Number one is like, if you're a startup and you're going to sell the company, like get in bed as quickly as possible with the potential buyer of your service as possible. we knew from our relationship with Paradox that they were deep into workday. they were personally like technology, like they were in there, like, yeah, they knew that that was a potential marriage that was going to happen.

Chad Sowash (18:40.002)

Yeah. yeah.

Chad Sowash (18:51.468)

Mark.

Joel (18:55.048)

They were also integrated into others pretty deeply, but they knew work day was, was probably a good, a good, acquired the, uh, the future. And this one, zoom was a, was a investor in bright higher, I think in their series B. So really early on that marriage was, was there, they were, they'd been dating for awhile. So if you're a startup, like figure out who could buy you and like get in bed with them as soon as possible. Um, the second thing is, you know, I was, I was trying to think back to

Chad Sowash (19:19.054)

Traitor, traitor damnedist.

Joel (19:23.932)

when zoom became cool, the whole COVID period and zoom was cool because you could have a cool background. You could either like, like pixelate the background, blur it, or you could like, like in Ben's video. That's not cool anymore. Like it's, I don't want to say it's a commodity, but every like tons of competitors around video, there's not, you know, just cause you have a background blur doesn't mean that you stand out. So zoom has to evolve.

This is a commodity and apparently a ton of resume or ton of interviews are happening on zoom already. They said it was millions in the, in the press release. So this is a really good sort of just plug and play with, with what people are doing on zoom already. The stock at the height of COVID was in the 500s. It's now below a hundred, think. So they need to juice the stock. It's been sideways for a long time. Wall Street didn't do much.

Chad Sowash (20:02.958)

Mm-hmm.

Joel (20:22.076)

The stock didn't do much on the news of this acquisition, but it does make them stickier as a solution. It makes sure that if you're using Zoom, you're not going to go somewhere else like a HireVue or some other standalone solution. And number three, it's getting beyond transcripts. It's getting beyond, we talked to Hone it over like eight years ago or so, and it's moving so far beyond just transcribing. Zoom already does transcription.

Chad Sowash (20:24.302)

Mm-hmm.

Joel (20:50.66)

It's about the AI, it's about feeding the LLM and from that you can start doing some really cool things around the AI space, which is where think Zoom is ultimately going. So to me, the three thoughts I have on the Zoom BrightHire is like get in bed early with someone that's going to acquire you. Zoom has to get out of this sort of funk that they have from a stock price perspective and a tech perspective. And number three, this is about AI. This is about LLMs feeding the beast.

feeding the content and then creating features and cool stickiness around that.

Chad Sowash (21:24.014)

Yeah, I agree. I whenever you're a startup, you're looking to try to get into as many portfolios as you can as quick as you can through partnership. And in this case, I mean, whether it's like working with a recruitment ad agency or something of that nature where they're looking for solutions for the clients, but then you also, like you're talking about, you have to take a look at other larger competitors, even outside of your space, to prospectively partner with them.

And as you said, great, great example. They did the whole background blurring or you could have some funky background. You could have your own background. You could do all these different things. Then everybody did it right. Well, they better get their shit in order quick because they are doing interviews, but they don't really have an interview platform per se. Bright Hire is an interview platform. So again, that is a market differentiator from all the other ones that are out there.

And again, it is just incredibly smart, I think, for Zoom. And again, their market share, they are the leader from a market share standpoint to be able to not just hold that market share, but to be able to gain and steal possibly from others is the biggest key.

Joel (22:37.072)

Yeah, the only the example I thought it was Veritone buying Pando and then buying broadband and then creating Veritone higher. or yeah, so I wonder if zoom higher is coming or something, something similar. And you look at workday go, which is that sort of lower SMB level. So this SMB space is going to be really interesting. A lot of really cool tech and advanced tech is going to be coming into the space and, it'll be fun to talk about, but congrats to Ben and Teddy.

Chad Sowash (22:41.294)

Yeah. Yep.

Chad Sowash (22:48.952)

Yeah.

Joel (23:05.597)

We knew those guys when they first started and it's always nice to see good things happen to good people.

Chad Sowash (23:10.542)

Teddy Chestnut, our favorite country singer.

Joel (23:14.578)

Teddy Chesn... I missed the beard, Teddy. Bring the beard back, my man. For the holidays. For the holidays. Do it for the kids. Do it for the kids. We'll be right back, everybody.

Joel (23:29.392)

All right, Chad, starting in 2026, that's next year, META will make AI-driven impact a core part of employee performance reviews, evaluating how workers use AI to boost productivity and results. In 2025, standout AI contributions will still be rewarded, though not formally scored. The move aligns META with Microsoft, Google, and Amazon in pushing mandatory AI adoption across big tech. Your thoughts.

Chad Sowash (23:59.31)

I this is incredibly smart for all of these companies because they are AI companies you have to eat your own dog food not to mention you also have to have that that that R &D kind of like mindset within your organization so you're always trying to take a look at different process methodologies or sales processes or recruiting process or what it whatever it is that you think

you might be able to shortcut with better processes with AI, right? Using chat bots, using agents, those types of things. So I think that is incredibly, incredibly smart. It's definitely the way that these companies need to move forward and all the other companies that are out there should be moving this way too. Whether you're an AI company or not, your competition is. That's why they're doing this. They're doing this because they know, first and foremost, it's optics. It just makes sense. Second,

you have to be able to get everybody involved, everybody involved, right? And that's exactly what they're doing. Every company that's out there, whether you're an AI company or not, should be doing this as well. It's incredibly smart. Now this is from an optimistic standpoint. I think this might be the way that we actually have guys in the trenches, girls in the trenches, finding different ways to prospectively create new roles within the organization, right? Instead of just killing roles, which is exactly what we're talking about.

Joel (25:19.785)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (25:22.36)

about with AI. Now on the pessimist side of the house, people start jumping in, start creating these wonderful shortcuts within their actual departments. We see headcount go down, right? Possibly. We're going to have to do something. The government's going to have to do something to be able to, as we talk about, know, layoffs every fucking week, to be able to get a tax base.

Joel (25:46.984)

Yep.

Chad Sowash (25:50.222)

to ensure that we have infrastructure and support nets and those types of things. Because if we don't, all of those individuals, again, this is on the pessimist side, if we aren't creating jobs at the same rate or greater than what we're losing jobs, we are going to be in fucking trouble. So yeah, think again, corporate side, you just do what you do. The government should be the watchdog on this. And unfortunately with this administration, they're not looking to watchdog.

They're not looking to watch anything, unfortunately, which fucking sucks.

Joel (26:24.273)

No, no, Chad, Chad, the pessimist and the optimist. I like that. I like that little two-face two-face guy. Six, seven, six, seven. sorry. my, my kids travel, Chad travels, driving me crazy. This, this reminds me, you and I are old enough to remember when, when the.com thing, companies had to like, you know, nail it into your head. Like everything we do has to be.com internet related.

Chad Sowash (26:27.694)

Jesus Christ.

Chad Sowash (26:38.094)

Oh. It'll do it. It'll do it to you.

Joel (26:53.417)

No more paper, no more, you know, mail and shit and like everything, everything had to be focused on that. This is similar. Like companies, particularly ones that are AI driven have to be focused on that from every aspect of the employee experience. Like it or not, this is the future. Um, and, and by the way, this is no, this is no longer just a big tech thing. This is coming for everybody. Um, I think some, I forget who said it in, uh, the, RL 100 yesterday.

is every job is becoming a tech job. Well, amen. So if you're not on the right head space to think that way, you're going to be left behind in the workforce of the future. It also underscores that AI is going to watch everything that you do and grade everything that you do. The days of hiding out and putting your head down and escaping.

Chad Sowash (27:42.645)

in train.

Joel (27:49.79)

lay out rounds of layoffs and not knowing what you do. Like companies are going to know how productive you are, what you're doing, are you making an impact, how much money you cost the company. Like all these analytics are going to, are going to flood into the workforce. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. so just like layoffs, watch what big tech does and it's coming down. You're going to see like Walmart and Home Depot and all those companies will start this and it's going to go down to

all the others. if you're not ready for this, you're going to get run over. might as well get on board now, because that train is, is a bullet train.

Chad Sowash (28:27.901)

It's really interesting how diverse the thought process is around AI automation in our space, right? Because we've talked to many companies who are like, oh yeah, we've got to be in it. We've got to be full in it. We've got a mandate from the top, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then we have others that are like, we're going to sit around and wait until this becomes fully baked, right?

that we've been able to do that in HR for a very, very long time. I think this is going to be the time in our life when we can't. We're going to have to adapt quickly. And if we don't adapt quickly, then I fear that many leaders that are out there are gonna get the chop. And they're gonna get the chop because everybody in the organization, first and foremost,

is going to have that responsibility, that accountability to actually focus on new tech and driving better processes and systems. And it's not just because it's cool and it's best for the bottom line, it's gonna be because your competitors are gonna beat the living shit out of you if you don't. And if you don't, then you're not gonna be hiring. And if you're not gonna be hiring and you're not adopting AI, then you're gone.

Joel (29:33.085)

Yeah.

Joel (29:44.969)

Mm-hmm.

Joel (29:49.992)

Yeah, the question I have is how many workers think I'm gone anyway because I'm just training my replacement by overseeing all this AI technology. Well, the good news is it's not common for podcasters as far as I know.

Chad Sowash (29:57.454)

It's a truth. It's a truth.

Chad Sowash (30:07.758)

Ugh.

Joel (30:07.849)

All right, Chad, let's go from Facebook to Verizon. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Remember those commercials? Verizon plans to cut roughly 15,000 jobs of the 100,000 employees in the coming week. It's largest ever round of layoffs. Source is familiar with the matter told the Wall Street Journal. The telecommunications company also intends to shift about 200 retail stores to franchise operations, moving these employees off

Chad Sowash (30:10.988)

Okay, I can hear you now. Yes. Yes bring it that was sprint

Joel (30:37.437)

Verizon's payroll. Chad, can you hear me now? What are your thoughts?

Chad Sowash (30:43.566)

pretty amazing. I we watch these Goliath organizations like the Ma Bell of old, right? That just they don't move and they don't innovate. And I really feel like, especially when we're talking about these are infrastructure companies. That's what they are. The telecommunications all about infrastructure, all about next laying that 6G line.

Joel (30:51.527)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (31:13.548)

right, or being able to put satellites in space, right? I mean, there's just so much that's happening right now. And my fear with Verizon is that they're going to be doing these cuts. They're focusing heavily on the stock price, right? But they're not focusing on infrastructure. They're not focusing on the future. And again, that's what happens when you get into this Uber capitalistic mindset of quarter by quarter.

definitely think of the EBITDA and the margins and those types of things. But the problem is, if we're not thinking years ahead and what our products are going to be then, or at least trying to plan for that and create the infrastructure, because infrastructure doesn't go in in a day, right? How do we actually get there? So I think, again, if that doesn't happen, we're going to see more than just 15,000 jobs gone for Verizon.

Joel (31:58.483)

Yep. Yep.

Chad Sowash (32:10.402)

they have to get on the innovation train, whatever that is, they've got to find it.

Joel (32:20.105)

So they have a new CEO. The guy was at PayPal before that. So it makes sense that there would be sort of these efficiencies kicking in and he would make some of these big changes. lot of the punnets on the street are talking about that the competition is stronger than it's ever been. Whether it's Met Mobile, your boy, Ryan Reynolds. I mean, that's the real thing. They can't juice the prices. It used to just be like increased prices.

Chad Sowash (32:22.882)

Mm-hmm.

Joel (32:49.833)

These are essentially the Marlboro's of today, right? Just like juice the price up. Where are you going to go? You're going to, you're not going to get rid of your phone. Um, what I'm not hearing about, and I think it might be unique to this show is the, the, the, aspect of this is who, who buys new phones, Chad.

Chad Sowash (33:02.583)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (33:12.174)

boomers and Xers. Oh, that's a good call. They do too. Yeah. That's a good call. That's a good call. Yeah.

Joel (33:13.081)

immigrants immigrants immigrants come to this country and they better get a phone pretty damn fast if they're gonna if they're gonna be part of the system they need to have a phone and we're we're talking about 30 million immigrants typically that come into this country that all become Verizon AT &T etc. clients if there are no immigrants there's no buying phones there's no new contracts because people like you and me have had the same contract probably for 10 plus years

Chad Sowash (33:29.454)

now.

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (33:41.218)

Yeah. Yeah. It's just hardware. Yeah.

Joel (33:42.824)

We're not growth. We're not a growth market. The growth market is people coming into the country and no one's talking about the impact of immigration on cell phone companies and mobile companies. I say that we should be talking more about immigrants and their impact on growth in products like cell phones. Immigrants buy cell phones and they're not coming to the country. So that's definitely got to be impacting Verizon.

Chad Sowash (33:54.104)

done.

Chad Sowash (34:06.786)

Yes.

Chad Sowash (34:11.306)

Well, we also have to take a look at the longer, I mean, the impacts of wages, right? We've talked about how people aren't buying fucking Big Macs anymore. They can't afford to buy Big Macs anymore, right? They've got a meal plan because our wages are not keeping up with inflation while the top half, these motherfuckers are, I mean, they're like 1500 times that of what the people that are actually doing the work are getting paid.

Joel (34:24.317)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (34:40.172)

So I agree 100%. So you take a look at like this multi-layer fucked up in this that's actually happening. Immigrants, need phones, but so do everyday people. And when I'm on Verizon and I see Mitmobile is only $15 or $25 a month or whatever the fuck it is, and I can cut my bill in half or maybe even more, then that's another one.

Joel (35:03.625)

Uh-huh.

Chad Sowash (35:08.652)

Right? it's, yeah. yeah.

Joel (35:09.033)

Sure, sure. The growth that is happening is in the mint mobiles and, what's, what's the one for old people that we should be on? consumer cellular. Yeah. The Ted, the Ted Danson. Yeah. If you're over 50, yeah. Or two more soluble. Yes.

Chad Sowash (35:14.851)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (35:20.064)

yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like, it's like three buttons. Yeah. The Ted dancing plan. Yeah.

Joel (35:35.049)

All right, Chad, let's take a quick break. Guys, if you're not following us on YouTube or if you like what you're hearing, please give us a follow at your podcast platform of choice or check us out at youtube.com backslash at Chad Cheese. We'll be right back.

Chad Sowash (35:56.482)

I'm gonna slip on in real quick. Just real quick, this whole Workday pipe dream acquisition that literally just came out so we didn't get a chance to do too much research on it. mean, again, and I said this in another podcast, we've given Workday so much shit about not innovating, right? And literally just building things that are gift with purchase. look, we've got an applicant tracking system. Well, it's shit, but.

Joel (36:04.679)

Lay in pipe, yeah.

Joel (36:25.214)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (36:25.974)

We have it, right? Well, they, I mean, it feels like they are literally ripping the plumbing out and they're, they're, they're buying new things to plug in. and pipe dream being one of them and AI, creator, is w which has tons of integrations, those types of things. mean, for me, watching these big companies, zoom workday, make some big fucking moves. I love it. I just love it.

Joel (36:54.675)

I love it too. mean, it's, time to shop. mean, workday has stock. has, they have money. If you have money, it's TJ Maxx for a lot of these companies and yeah. How'd off to, how'd off to work day. I don't know how much of it'll work, but you can't, know, you always miss a hundred percent of the shots you never take. Right. And if you're SAP, if I mean, SAP took a big swing with smart recruiters, but workday is, is showing, showing people how it's done and they are, they're headed to the mall and they are shopping.

Chad Sowash (37:13.048)

Yeah.

Joel (37:24.674)

And I'd like to see more companies do it. Shout out to zoom as well. But I think you'll see more of that in the future just because the deals are there to be made. Period.

Chad Sowash (37:33.708)

Yeah, it's, we'll see more of this. I want to see where UKG goes next. I mean, there's obviously the Oracles. mean, so there are some big moves that have already been made in our space. The question is, what are the next big moves? Workday just keeps making these moves and keeps gobbling things up while some of the competitors are sitting and watching. This is going to be interesting to watch.

Joel (37:40.157)

Yeah.

Joel (37:58.25)

Workday is hungry, baby. Workday is hungry. It's hungry hippos at workday. It's hungry hippos at LinkedIn. With LinkedIn flooded and the job market tough, Chad, job seekers are using dating apps. That's right, I said dating apps like Tinder and Bumble to do their networking and job search for them. A resume builder survey shows 22 % have tried it and 80 % of them landed interviews or meetings.

Chad Sowash (38:00.398)

I dig it.

Joel (38:28.527)

Experts call it, quote, weird but effective. What do you call it, Chad?

Chad Sowash (38:36.494)

call it not trying to put everybody in the same fucking silo. And it was funny, I was actually talking to an employer yesterday about not this specifically, but it was something like this, where they were like, look, we need to go to community colleges and we need to go to, you know, we need to train the kids on LinkedIn and how to use LinkedIn. And I'm like, no, they have their own way.

Joel (39:00.179)

Sure.

Chad Sowash (39:05.28)

of doing things. They have their own social media. have their, mean, so what you need to do is you need to adapt to the market. The thing that really fucking pisses me off is all these motherfuckers are like, well, the market has to adapt to us. Apparently not. If you want to get these motherfuckers, then you have to adapt to the market. And TA, town acquisition and HR has always been, always been a set it and forget it kind of industry, right? So we set

Joel (39:32.904)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (39:34.986)

Indeed, we set LinkedIn in there and we're like, that's all we're going to use. That's not how you win. You can't win that way. Do I think that being a quote unquote professional network, that's what we call it, right? That's what we grew up with. Do I think they should be on it? I think it would be helpful, but I'm not going to move a fucking market and neither any of these companies.

Joel (39:41.928)

Uh-huh.

Joel (39:52.144)

huh.

Joel (40:06.131)

Hi there, I'm Joel. I enjoy poetry readings, long walks on the beach, piña coladas in Cabo, and I'm looking for marketing job with a six-figure salary. Look, Chad, desperate times lead to desperate measures, and we've gotten our share of stories about people calling companies and saying, yeah, I'm calling to schedule my interview. What? And it works. People are trying.

Chad Sowash (40:06.168)

But a dating app? That's another one.

Joel (40:32.413)

They're getting out of the box, right? They're getting out of the traditional stuff and apparently the traditional stuff isn't working very well. So they're going to Tinder. I don't know how that chat goes, yeah, job interviews are apparently happening, connections are being made, and maybe there's a love connection or two in the offing as well.

Chad Sowash (40:32.792)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (40:43.406)

would be weird.

Chad Sowash (40:51.086)

Do you roll over after a hookup and say, any positions? let's talk about that marketing director position that I saw open on your site.

Joel (41:00.457)

Speaking as we're in this position, I'd like to talk to you about a different kind of position. You know what I'm saying? Maybe that's the conversation that's going on.

Chad Sowash (41:09.359)

Ooh, yeah, that would take all the fire out of that night, let me tell you. What? Okay.

Joel (41:14.355)

Yeah, let's get to a dad joke.

Joel (41:21.693)

What do you call a singing computer? What do you call a singing computer?

Chad Sowash (41:30.03)

I don't know.

Joel (41:31.205)

Adele.

Joel (41:35.273)

You

Chad Sowash (41:36.654)

That was good. That was very good.

Joel (41:39.293)

I knew you'd like that. We out!

Chad Sowash (41:41.912)

We out.