Will Job.com Go Bust?

This week on The Chad & Cheese Podcast: 🧨

💥 Job.com files Chapter 11 — But don’t worry, they’ve found a buyer… themselves. Yup, it’s like selling your house to your shadow to dodge the IRS, only sketchier.

🤹‍♂️ Debt? Oh, just $50-100 million

📉 Business model? Shaky from the start.  

🧙‍♂️ Carnival Barking 101? Check.  

💸 Scammy or just sad? Both can be true.

This one’s got everything — VCs, shell games, unsecured creditors, and a business plan scribbled on the back of a napkin soaked in bourbon barrel-aged syrup.

It’s The Chad & Cheese Podcast – where bankruptcy isn’t failure, it’s just… Friday.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Chad (00:31.997)

I'm not throwing away my shot because I'm gonna be in the room where it happens. That's right, you're listening to the Chad and Cheeseless podcast. I'm Chad Alexander Hamilton Sowash.

Emi B (00:43.222)

And I am Emi. We are the netball champions, my friend Beredugo.

Chad (00:50.493)

That's awesome. And on this week's show, job.com goes bust. Microsoft lays off and OpenAI hits the panic button. Let's fucking do this.

Chad (01:04.421)

Ooh, Emmy, what up with you? Other than not having AC in this country, what the hell is going on? What's going on here?

Emi B (01:11.618)

Look, we don't need AC in this country because it's only hot for a week every single year. So what's the point of investing?

Chad (01:17.469)

That's total bullshit. Why am I always here on the weekend that's hot then? I don't get it. That doesn't make sense.

Emi B (01:21.794)

Honestly, wow. I don't know. You brought the sun over and I am grateful. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Chad (01:27.665)

You're welcome. I'm here for you. I'm here for you. So I got to say though, we were in Brighton for a few days, had a great time. They have a lovely beach, except there's no sand. It's rock. I'm totally, it's not even pebbles. Pebbles are small. These are rocks. Because I'm spoiled with the whole fine sand, white sand, and the Algarve and shit. But the English Channel is gorgeous. I mean, it really is.

Emi B (01:37.324)

Lovely.

Emi B (01:40.95)

Knife pebbles, yeah.

Emi B (01:50.998)

Okay, rub it in.

Chad (01:55.89)

beach storefronts are awesome that upside down house. I just got to watch out for the seagulls when you're eating because they will take your shit guys and they're big. they're big. yeah.

Emi B (02:05.188)

yeah, yeah, yeah, they're huge. Don't fuck with our seagulls at all. Yeah, they don't care. Yeah, yeah. I don't know how they've been raised.

Chad (02:09.533)

Which is why Brighton Hove, the football team, they have a seagull because you don't fuck with the seagulls, right? mean, yeah. So the, yeah, the pier's cool, great pubs, restaurants. Our friends, Jem and Thomas from Talent Nexus actually took us up to an escape room that was there, which was awesome. The lanes are cool. We did a

Emi B (02:18.69)

Yeah, yeah, no, no, absolutely. Yeah. See you learning.

Emi B (02:35.118)

them. Yeah.

Chad (02:36.529)

Ghost tour where the actor was actually fully in period costume. I mean, was really cool. So we had a great time. Yeah, yeah, we did it around the lanes. Ghost tour around the lanes, started at the Druid's Head. was so awesome. Yeah, yeah. Last night came up for Hamilton staying in London around Victoria Station mainly because we've never stayed in that area before. And Hamilton was playing in the

Emi B (02:44.12)

Did you do that around the lanes? yeah.

yeah, I love that city.

Chad (03:06.395)

Victoria Palace Theatre, so I found a place close. Have you seen Hamilton yet?

Emi B (03:09.624)

Yeah. No, I really, really want to. That is on my bucket list. Everyone keeps talking about it. And I'm like, I have to get around to it. I have to.

Chad (03:18.553)

So people become obsessed because you go to the show and it is just so, it's amazing. It took me a while to kind of digest what was happening, but the music, the rap, just the retelling, right, is awesome. It's our second time that we've seen it in theaters. Julie's probably see it a hundred times on Disney Plus. there's nothing like, you're gonna love this, there's nothing like coming all the way to London to be in a.

theater full of Americans watching a play about American history. mean, that was that was just it was fucking crazy, but it was cool at the same time. But you had you do, but you you you are the champions. Talk about that. What happened? What happened this weekend? Yeah. huh.

Emi B (03:51.374)

love it. Absolutely love it. I have to, I have to get there.

Emi B (04:04.558)

Oh my God. Right. So for anyone who doesn't know, I am a massive netball fan. So for Americans who don't know what netball is, think basketball, but better. Sorry, Americans. No, no, it is. No, there's no backboard and you can't dribble, which means that you need additional skill. You know, how are you going to get the ball into the goal, into the goal net without, yeah, yeah, no, a hundred percent. Because that basketball is rely on a backboard. No, we need precision. Yeah.

Chad (04:16.015)

stop it. There's no backboard.

Chad (04:24.775)

What? What?

Chad (04:30.439)

Dribbling's a skill.

Emi B (04:33.358)

You know, you have to stop, have to pivot. No, honestly, it is brilliant. And I've been playing this sport since I was 11 years old. And yeah, we went away to Bogna, which is actually near where you were. So was thinking of you. I knew that you're around Brighton. So I was like, ah, not too far away, at you. And so a whole bunch of us went down and we fought hard. We fought hard. We were competitive. We were bringing it back for London. And it was amazing. But in the final, were playing against teenagers.

Chad (04:34.141)

That's like part of the show.

Chad (04:40.561)

That's awesome.

Chad (04:46.507)

okay. Yeah.

Emi B (05:01.774)

You know, we were a bunch of like kind of 30, 40 year olds playing against 14, 15 year olds, but experience won them out. We ground them down. You know, there was no niceties in the final. Yeah. I'm like, I'm sorry. I know I should be nice, but I'm here for the medal. I'm here for the shiny trophies and we brought it back home. So I am very, very excited. Yeah.

Chad (05:05.511)

Mm-hmm.

Jesus.

There it is. There it is.

Ha ha ha!

Chad (05:21.415)

Yeah?

Chad (05:26.749)

Well that being said, you're talking about silverware and we have kind of a somber shout out.

Emi B (05:32.579)

Yeah.

Chad (05:35.673)

that happened last week. So go ahead and hit it up because this guy actually had some silverware.

Emi B (05:42.604)

Absolutely. So my shout out, as you said, is a sombre one this time around, but it's actually to Liverpool Football Club. So why am I shouting out to them? Because they stepped up when tragedy happened. And if you read the news, you would have heard about the tragic loss of, I'm not sure if I pronounced this correctly, but Dior Jota and his brother, Andre. So what the club did was actually something quite extraordinary, something that I think not many other clubs have done.

So they've actually announced that they're going to honor the remainder of Jota's contract. And this is estimated around 14 to 15 million pounds. So that's about $20 million. And they're paying this out to his wife and their three young children. So why am I shouting them out? Because I just think that this is more than a PR jester. This is a real true reflection of the football club's anthem and core philosophy.

Chad (06:11.025)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (06:20.647)

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chad (06:32.665)

yeah.

Emi B (06:37.848)

So if you know anything about Liverpool Football Club, their anthem is the song, You'll Never Walk Alone. They really live into that. And I really do think there's a powerful lesson in there. They didn't have to do what they did, but what they're doing is reminding us that, I suppose they're reminding us of what real leadership looks like. So it's not just in the wins, it's not just in the trophies, but it's actually in solidarity, it's in empathy, it's in heart, and it's in being true to your values.

They're doing something not because it looks good, because it's the right thing to do. And really in doing so, they've set example for other sports clubs, other organizations, other communities. So that's why my shout out goes to them.

Chad (07:22.481)

And I'm going to double down on that because Jota is, and you probably don't know this, he's actually my favorite football player. He plays for the Portuguese national team. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see my new Jersey that I'm very proud of. The Portuguese national team. I'm not, I'm not a, I don't have like a team in the premier league. I do in Portugal, sporting is my team, but not in the English premier league. I root for all the teams.

that have Portuguese starters. And I love how Jota played. And I just loved how scrappy he and really Liverpool was. The thing that gets me is, I mean, and again, not to get too somber, but he was married just 11 days before this and has three children. This season, I got to say, you know, he had an amazing season. Liverpool FC squad won the Premier League Championship.

Emi B (08:08.654)

Mmm.

Chad (08:21.533)

Portugal national team just won the UEFA Nations League. They just beat Spain, which was big. So yeah, this one was rough. This one was very rough. watching Liverpool again, this isn't just a gesture. This is $15 million. And I know that people are like talking about, they're billionaires out there. They can do this. It's chump change. Yeah, but they did. And that to me, it means a lot.

Emi B (08:31.971)

Yeah.

Chad (08:49.437)

Again, not a Liverpool fan, this makes me want to become a Liverpool fan. He was on my favorite team and they do something like this. So it was pretty amazing. It was pretty amazing. And rest in peace to our friends, our friends and Jota and his brother, Andre Silva.

Emi B (09:06.06)

Absolutely.

Chad (09:14.909)

Give them a minute kids, give them a minute. Okay, I'm tearing up. Okay, we're gonna go ahead and.

Chad (09:23.26)

That's you, Emmy.

Emi B (09:24.43)

That is me. Okay. What free stuff do we have? So we have whiskey and whiskey goes, yes, I love a bit of whiskey. So this goes to the tech talent experts over at Van Hack and oh, chicken. Oh, I need to try some of that chicken cock. I'm hoping that you're going to, yeah, a hundred percent. What else have we got? We got bourbon barrel age syrup. So this is from the guys over Bob and Doug McKenzie over at Cura.

Chad (09:30.158)

Chad (09:36.519)

Chick, chicken cock whiskey, by the way. Don't forget about the chicken cock. Two bottles, chicken cock.

you do. yeah.

Emi B (09:53.632)

We have t-shirts. So if you, I don't know, I saw those t-shirts online recently. Those new t-shirts are amazing. And that's from the, the red shoe wearing weirdos over at Erin app. We also.

Chad (09:58.649)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chad (10:05.201)

Now they are Motley Crue, Dr. Feelgood inspired. That's the album. The album cover is Motley Crue, Dr. Feelgood. So if you know that album cover, yes, yes, yes, yes. Why it looks so cool? It was inspired and you know, it's not a ripoff. It's not a ripoff. It's just inspired.

Emi B (10:09.834)

yeah.

That's where it comes from. Yeah. yeah.

Emi B (10:23.476)

No, just inspired. It's fine. Yeah, absolutely fine. Okay, what else we got? We got craft beer. So that's from the job jobs. I can't talk properly today. The job data geeks from Aspen Tech Labs. And finally, if it's your birthday, we have rum with plum.

Chad (10:30.941)

you

Chad (10:36.103)

Love those guys.

Chad (10:43.197)

That's right.

Chad (10:48.059)

Yeah.

Emi B (10:48.078)

Down to my palms!

Chad (10:54.787)

And remember kids, can't win if you don't play. You gotta go to ChadCheese.com slash free to be able to register to win all this stuff. More than likely, we're just gonna send you a t-shirt anyway. We're gonna skip this week for birthdays, because Joel loves birthdays so much. He'll double down next week. He's in Berlin this week, which is why it's a lactose-free Chad and Cheese. So it's just Chad and Emmy, which is okay. It's all good. It's all good.

And last but not least, before we get into the big stuff.

Steven, you know it because you're gonna be there. This week, now if you're listening on Friday and you gotta be, because that's when this drops, guess what? You already missed RecFest. What the fuck? You've got to have so much FOMO, but, but you can go to RecFest in Nashville. That's happening later this year. You can get a ChadCheese.com slash events. Check all the different events that we're going to. If you missed, Nebworth, shame on you. Although...

Although you can go ahead and check us out at Nashville. It is a blast. Emmy, are you coming to Nashville?

Emi B (12:03.01)

really want to. I've got those dates saved. I'm going to fly over if I can. I want to be there. Yeah.

Chad (12:08.987)

Yeah, we need to talk to Jamie. We need to talk to Jamie about possibly getting you on stage, getting a little English flair on stage.

Emi B (12:14.658)

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. we do a request now? Jamie, I know you are listening. Get me to RecFest Nashville. You know you want me there. The crowds are asking for me. Are they? Let's just say they are.

Chad (12:31.613)

I've created a monster, Jamie. I've created a monster.

Emi B (12:33.708)

Yeah! They all want me there! Please get me there.

Chad (12:40.602)

god.

Chad (12:46.971)

All right, before we actually start with the topic stuff, I have a rumor alert. Do you want to hear this one? you know you do. So this is, it's still just a rumor. I want to double tap on that, but we've heard that Monster plus Career Builder, the job board asset that they're selling to JobGet, is going for a whisper amount of $7 million. Monster at one time, with more assets of course,

Emi B (12:51.682)

I do, I love a reamer. Yeah.

Chad (13:15.121)

had a valuation of $1 billion by itself, by itself. And both Career Builder and Monster job board assets are going for a rumored $7 million. So there'll be more to come. We'll get more information on that information. We got a really good source on that one, which is why I wanted to release it as a rumor, not, we still have to get more sources on it, but I'm pretty stoked. What do you think about that?

Emi B (13:18.208)

No!

Emi B (13:32.727)

Emi B (13:39.714)

I think that is fucking hilarious. Is that wrong? that, should I say?

Chad (13:41.981)

Hahaha

Emi B (13:45.878)

You know me, I've been saying for ages that they need to just hang up their boots, you know? And the fact that they've gone for that massive amount, to seven million, it just shows you just how shitty their product is. No one wants them. No one wants them.

Chad (13:57.649)

Yeah. Well, guess what? We've got more news of bankruptcy. So job.com, job.com, a three letter dot com has filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy. The entity operating this site, job.com-hvinc, they've got so many companies, it is fricking ridiculous, of Florida filed for chapter 11.

Emi B (14:02.67)

Yeah. Mmm.

Chad (14:24.541)

11 bankruptcy protection on July 6th, 2025, making another high profile collapse in the online career services sector, following in the footsteps of industry names like Monster and Career Builder, which we just talked about. Now, this is from the official 201 form. Love you, baby. Love you, baby. This is from the official 201 form, the number of unsecured debtors.

that they have is anywhere from 200 to 999. The estimated assets of the organization is 10 million to 50 million, 50 million, but the liabilities, the liabilities are anywhere from 50 million to 100 million. Riverin Consulting is owned 2.1 million. That's a professional services company. Soja Ventures, which is a VC company.

is owed 1.6 million. That's possibly a loan. Lukowski, Brookman, which is, I think it's an attorney, a legal organization, owed 864,000. MDJ Group, 808,000. And number seven on the list, I'm jumping down to number seven because it's very interesting. Job.com's CTO slash CPO is owed over three

Emi B (15:33.646)

Okay.

Chad (15:51.857)

hundred thousand dollars. Side note, you're love this. LinkedIn and Indeed together are owed about seven hundred and eighty thousand. But there's more. There's more. It goes deeper. Emmy, they have a buyer. Can you believe that? I'm gonna paraphrase this. It is in the best interests of the companies to enter into a proposed asset purchase agreement by

Emi B (16:02.478)

Jesus.

Emi B (16:10.242)

Who? Why?

Chad (16:22.768)

Job.com acquisition company. Who's buying it? Job.com acquisition company. They're selling it to themselves. And as knowing through bankruptcy, usually unsecured debtors don't receive 100 % repayment, right? So it's anywhere from zero to 50%. So do they cut the debt in half and continue operations? So what do you make of this? It seems pretty scammy. I don't know. just, again, personally,

Emi B (16:30.012)

to themselves.

Emi B (16:41.443)

Yeah.

Chad (16:51.271)

This seems scammy. What do you think?

Emi B (16:53.454)

It definitely sounds weird. I've never heard of a company going bankrupt and selling it to themselves before. Ever. Yeah. It doesn't even sound legal. I don't understand what kind of loophole they've actually managed to kind of get away with this, but I've never heard of this before. Have you?

Chad (17:00.038)

And allowing, yeah.

Chad (17:12.117)

No, but here's the thing is that they are known under several different companies under like a holding company. So job.com didn't own them before. So it sounds like it is more trickery than it is anything else to go ahead and create another company that is job.com acquisition company per se. But we can agree this chapter 11 filing makes Apollo's file with Monster.

Emi B (17:19.874)

Yeah.

Emi B (17:32.396)

Okay.

Chad (17:41.295)

and career builders look pristine, to be quite frank. Julie and I went into this and we went into rabbit holes. And it's really interesting to see how many companies are involved in buying assets, the money that's trading hands left and right. And again, nothing's clear. And that is deliberate. I can almost fucking guarantee you that is deliberate. When you have VC involved, you have PE involved, what are they gonna wanna do? They're gonna wanna know where the money's going, right? So you can't tell me.

Emi B (17:43.489)

Yeah.

Emi B (17:58.584)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (18:09.506)

Yeah.

Chad (18:11.377)

that something this murky and this gray is not done deliberately, right? So for me, I don't know. But again, in my honest opinion, this seems incredibly weird. There are a lot of companies that have already gone into bankruptcy and Chapter 11 have closed. There are part that have been a part of this group over the years. So I don't know. I don't know. We're going to continue to watch to see what happens if it folds.

Emi B (18:31.534)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (18:41.117)

The only thing I can say is obviously, companies like this with with PE pushing money into an organization, you know that the CEOs, the CTOs, the CEO, I mean, all those people, they get paid, they get paid. The ones who get fucked are the ones who are actually doing the job every day. And I have to send out my regards to them with hoping that they find a gig because that's a really shitty way to go.

Emi B (18:53.891)

Yeah.

Emi B (18:58.668)

Yeah.

Emi B (19:11.146)

It is. I'm still a little bit shocked because from everything I've read about them, you know, what they've got a history of overextending themselves, overspending, overperforming. So even if they're by themselves, which, you know, this kind of weird, murky way that they're doing, what are they going to do that's different? You know, what have they learned from everything that's actually gone wrong so far? Yeah.

Chad (19:19.547)

Yes. Yes.

Chad (19:26.514)

Mm.

Chad (19:31.065)

Let's talk about the business model real quick, okay? Because Joel and I have dug in really deep, even with the CEO, Aaron, over the years. He was actually on stage, death match and whatnot. And I have actually called him. I've said this and you can take a listen at many back episodes. He's one of the best carnival barkers in our industry period, right? He can sell elixir.

Emi B (19:42.424)

Yeah.

Emi B (19:55.584)

Okay.

Chad (19:58.235)

He can sell shit that doesn't exist, right? Whether he did or not, that's another question. But let's get into the business model. Quote from the website, job.com is a paradigm shifting force that is laser focused on disrupting the antiquated $650 billion global staffing industry utilizing artificial intelligence. There's the word. And end to end connected product suite and world class recruiters, end quote. So kids, remember,

Emi B (20:03.468)

Yeah.

Chad (20:27.559)

When I talked about pets.com a couple of weeks ago, just because you bought a great URL, pets.com, doesn't mean that you've got a great business model. And it was not a solid business model in the case of job.com. The business model was suspect from Jump Street. What was the model? You create efficient hiring models that speed up hiring. this sounds all great. And then help.

Emi B (20:34.062)

Mm-hmm. No.

Chad (20:55.431)

quicker staffing placements, right? Via said technology. For only 2 % instead of 20 % of placement fees. This sounds amazing, right? It's only 2 % versus paying a staffing company 20%. So moving companies into this model means you have to gain adoption, which is way too slow if you only have a margin of 2%. And that's not even your margin, right?

Emi B (21:18.744)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (21:20.445)

You need massive amounts of transactions in placements to make this work. So what do you think will actually fit this adoption piece? You buy staffing companies with existing client portfolios. That's a smart way to force adoption, right? If you're buying a portfolio that has revenues of 20 % of placement fees, and you move that to a 2 % model, yeah.

Emi B (21:31.864)

Yeah.

Emi B (21:44.814)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (21:50.001)

You can increase adoption, but you've just decimated your revenue. you have to then go get more clients to cover the new shortfall that you just created, which doesn't make any sense. So...

Emi B (21:53.537)

Revenue, yeah.

Emi B (22:03.086)

And that's a massive shortfall going from 20 % to 2%. How many more?

Chad (22:06.351)

Yeah, and the whole model, the whole idea that Aaron pitched on stage was we're gonna do it with scale. We're just gonna do more transactions. But you can't do 18 % more transactions overnight. You have to gain adoption, right? So if you thought this sounded shady up to this point, when you download the official 201 PDF, the text is inaccessible.

Emi B (22:16.494)

Wow.

Chad (22:34.235)

So if you can't, it can't be properly indexed by search engines or LLMs. It's like ghost unindexable filing. I mean, it's hard.

Emi B (22:46.766)

So it was going to fail. So it was always going to fail as a model.

Chad (22:50.479)

It was, well, the model itself was, it made no sense. mean, when he was on stage, he was actually on stage in Austin. And he's on show a few times to kind of try to quote unquote explain some of the moves that they had been making because we were like, this is total bullshit. This makes no sense. But he pitched and he is an amazing pitch man. But when you're pitching shit with a smile, it's still shit.

Emi B (22:55.031)

Yeah.

Emi B (23:00.813)

Okay.

Emi B (23:19.04)

Yeah. Wow. I find it fascinating, but I'm interested to see what the hell is going to happen over the next couple of months, because how are they going to compete with all the other competitors out there? Just buying yourself, is that going to make it any better? Has he actually learned? Is he still going to be pitching shit? Are people going to buy into it? I don't think so. Yeah.

Chad (23:38.502)

Yeah.

It feels like financial engineering. mean, literally just trying to keep yourself afloat, but with the model that you're already running, like you'd said, you have to change models. You cannot stay on this model. Now, the first model, just to be clear, it was 5 % that they were going to keep. Still, 5 is a far throw from 20, right? But it was 5%. What they were going to do was,

Emi B (23:45.069)

Yeah, 100%.

Emi B (24:06.67)

for 20.

Chad (24:10.109)

they're going to give 3 % to the job seeker, 2 % to themselves. Yes, so they made it more complex right out of the gate and they had a job.com credit card.

Emi B (24:23.992)

What? Why?

Chad (24:25.361)

because all the money that they gave you was on a job.com credit card.

Emi B (24:28.44)

Yeah.

Emi B (24:32.391)

no, no.

Chad (24:33.593)

It was doomed to fail from the beginning.

Emi B (24:38.114)

Has anyone investigated this organization? I just feel like we're gonna find out in a couple of years, maybe a year, that he's some kind of criminal, of financial wrangling. Yeah.

Chad (24:47.933)

I don't know. I don't know. It's all speculation at this point kids, but you just sit there. You sit there and you try to digest this because we'll be right.

Emi B (24:53.677)

Nyeh-ha!

Emi B (24:59.651)

Yeah.

Chad (25:03.623)

Whoo, okay, so I'm just trying to stop digesting the whole job.com thing. And I'm gonna go into Microsoft because they're having layoffs. Did you hear about the layoffs?

Emi B (25:17.29)

I did,

Chad (25:19.537)

Yeah, so an Xbox executive, this is actually from TechRadar, an Xbox executive's well-intentioned AI advice to recently laid off staff sparked widespread backlash. Following Microsoft's announcement of some 9,000 job cuts around 4 % of its global workforce, including many of Xbox Studio, Matt Turnbull, an executive producer, posted a now-deleted LinkedIn suggestion.

Now deleted means something, means he knows he fucked up. That affected employee, or I'm sorry, he suggested that these employees, these laid off employees use AI tools like ChatGPT or CoPilot, which Microsoft owns, to help manage the emotional burden of job loss and rebuild confidence via provided...

prompt ideas. So he was providing them prompt ideas instead of give me a bigger severance. I don't need your fucking prompt ideas while his aim to support colleagues. Critics argued that urging laid off workers to lean on an AI, especially from the same company, the Microsoft was was really tone deaf, minimizing the value of human empathy, social support and meaningful assistance during a crisis. So

Emmy, would this be the way that you would go after it? Would you just give some great AI prompts and hope that they would take it in stride?

Emi B (26:57.91)

and go, yeah, this is amazing, thank you so much. No, the short answer is no, I would not. This person needs to go, I don't know who taught him how to be a leader, I don't know who taught him how to manage people. I don't think he's ever had any kind of conversation about how to empathize with their team members. But he needs that now, because obviously he sat there going, my God, I'm with you, I feel for you, we let you go, even though you helped us to.

Chad (27:00.551)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (27:16.701)

Mm.

Emi B (27:26.722)

build these AI products and sell these AI products, what am I going to do? I'm going to tell you how to use those same AI tools to, you know, almost as grief counselling. And did you see some of the prompts that he came up with? Okay, so one of them I saw is like, okay, so type into chat GPT, I'm struggling with imposter syndrome after being laid off. Can you help me reframe this experience in a way that reminds me of what I'm good at? I mean, are you a fucking idiot?

Chad (27:40.838)

No, no, no, no, tell me.

Emi B (27:56.558)

Has he ever, he even, did he even stop to put himself in his employee shoes? And, and if he didn't, you know, well, obviously he didn't because he's now gone back and deleted those posts, as he said, you know, the internet went wild. They were brutal. They were swift. You know, people were saying that is, is this the latest episode of severance? You know, like you said, calling it out is tone deaf. It is tone deaf. It is out touch. And even more, it's actually cruel. Because this is not, he's not doing it for

Chad (28:06.961)

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Emi B (28:26.58)

his employees that have been laid off. I honestly think he's doing it for himself. He's making himself feel good, making herself feel better. It's like a almost like a PR gesture. So I don't know what's going on over there, but they need to retrain him, get rid of him, do whatever. But do not let this person post online. Do not let this person deliver a message, do something to help him become a better leader.

Chad (28:55.261)

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much what's happening here, kids. mean, it's more like you just get handed your papers, right, to be able to get your walking papers. And then somebody was like, oh, you must be, you you must have imposter syndrome or you must have, don't put that shit in their fucking head, you goddamn idiot. I mean, first and foremost, have a little empathy.

Emi B (28:55.342)

That is it.

Emi B (29:14.146)

Yeah, of course.

Chad (29:21.781)

And if you think they need help, give them some more fucking severance, right? If that's what it is, give them some more money, not to mention, I don't know, maybe start working with some of the partner companies that Microsoft has to try to get them over into other jobs. Yes.

Emi B (29:40.712)

companies help them with their resume help them with outplacement services do that don't yeah

Chad (29:46.427)

Yeah, outplacement services, no question, but get them hooked up into companies and pipeline them into companies that need them. mean, so here's a great example, and this is during the pandemic. Marriott had a ton of hospitality workers that they just didn't need anymore because nobody was coming to hotels. Guess what they did? They worked with CVS.

Emi B (29:51.37)

Yeah, use your network.

Emi B (30:08.931)

Yeah.

Chad (30:13.381)

And they pushed those individuals over to CVS because CVS had a, they had a ton of jobs opening because they had the shock that was happening, right? They had the inoculation they had. So they needed people to be able to work customer service and hospitality for CVS, right? So they worked together. Those companies work together to be for good, right? There's no reason, even if we don't have a goddamn pandemic, which to be quite frank.

Emi B (30:24.003)

huh. Yeah.

Emi B (30:31.351)

Yeah.

Emi B (30:38.039)

Yeah.

Chad (30:43.515)

With the labor market shortage and not labor market shortage, the labor market overage that we have right now, pushing hundreds of thousands of government employees on, pushing immigrants out. mean, the whole workforce imbalance issue that we have right now, companies should be helping these individuals, period. I mean, there's no reason. I mean, especially the US government is not going to fucking do it. That's for sure.

Emi B (31:02.732)

Yeah, yeah.

Emi B (31:09.164)

No, not at all. And all that's going to happen, which is, you know, obviously it's out in the press. Not only does he make this guy look shit and stupid, but it's actually damaging their morale. You know, yeah, damaging the morale of the employees is still there. Damaging the brand because when the market picks up, they're going to remember that in the times when it was hard, they got rid of their employees. They offer support in the worst possible way. And

Chad (31:14.023)

Mm.

Chad (31:20.049)

Microsoft, yeah.

Chad (31:25.191)

Yeah.

Chad (31:37.394)

Yes.

Emi B (31:38.094)

They're going to remember that this guy's most human thing they can do, or he could do, was just to offer his employees a chat bot as a way of getting back into a new role. it's like, these people are going to remember that. They're going to remember, and they're not going to work for you, and they're going to tell other people that Microsoft is a shitty company that does not care about their employees.

Chad (31:53.627)

Yeah, and.

Chad (31:57.778)

Yeah.

Chad (32:02.045)

And productivity for your current employees, as you were talking about, goes in the shitter because they can't trust you when they see their leaders act like this, which means...

Emi B (32:04.749)

Yeah.

Emi B (32:09.504)

No!

Emi B (32:13.176)

They're gonna get the fuck out.

Chad (32:16.573)

That's right. And that wee problem is also showing up at OpenAI as they hit the panic button. OpenAI is sounding the alarm amid aggressive poaching of its top talent by Zuck and the people over at Meta. Earlier this month, OpenAI ordered a full week off for its workforce, officially to quote unquote, recharge. But insiders cast it as a defensive strategy and relentless recruitment.

Emi B (32:21.571)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (32:46.617)

amid relentless recruitment overtures from Meta. OpenAI is now publicly evaluating higher compensation, go no shit, across its research organizations signaling that its famed mission-driven culture may no longer be enough to retain elite talent. It's been reported by Didi Das

VC at Menlo Ventures that more than 10 open AI heavy hitters have jumped ship and joined Metta with packages over $10 million. Emmy, would you jump ship to join Zuck for a cool 10 million?

Emi B (33:27.084)

Yeah, 100%. I'll be there. Listen, I'm in the process of buying a new house. I'm going to be knocking down walls, building a new garden, installing a new kitchen. Yeah. Give me the money. Money, money, money, money. Yes. Give me all the money. Listen, as much as I might love the culture, you know, if I was an open AI employee, I might be mission led. I've got bills to pay. And if Meda are going to throw money,

Chad (33:44.541)

What?

Yeah.

Emi B (33:57.326)

me 100 % I'll be like see you later thank you very much I'll put up with a toxic culture because that 10 million is going to more than make up for the toxic culture it's

Chad (34:08.305)

So we've heard for years and we've been programmed for years that we are family, right? And that was something that was just a bullshit line to try to keep people on and to retain them so that they wouldn't leave. And then the family also was merged into vision and the vision of the organization and the culture of the organization was just so good that you just can't leave.

Emi B (34:35.448)

We're gonna do this together, through thick and thin.

Chad (34:36.995)

Exactly. And the thing is that employees have seen for decades now that the company doesn't give two fucks about you. Okay. They want to push you as hard as they possibly can. They want to bleed you dry of all your ideas, all of your time, all your development, whatever you do, your sales, customer service, whatever it is, you're great at something. They just want to bleed you dry and they want as much time as they possibly can get. So what does that mean? That means, and again,

back to the day when companies used to be loyal and individuals would stay around for 40 years, right? Those days are gone. It's all about the money. And if you're not giving them the money.

Emi B (35:18.584)

They're gonna go.

Chad (35:22.289)

They are going to be gone. so I really believe that companies today who are leaning really hard, like OpenAI is, on their quote unquote culture, values, vision, all those things, right? They're gonna get smacked in the face by organizations that just have more money, period, right?

Emi B (35:46.402)

Yeah. Well, I think if they're only relying on the money, then that's the issue. If they're combining the money with the vision, with a good work culture, with progression, then great. That's what's going to make you stand out.

Chad (36:00.103)

They're talking about super intelligence though, right? And that's what the meta has moved. And they're like, what's a cool word that we can start to use to try to draw people in with super intelligence? Yeah, I totally get that. But the reason that these people are going is money.

Emi B (36:02.071)

Yeah.

Emi B (36:20.142)

Yeah. With those paychecks, yeah. You'll sacrifice, yeah. If it's only a small amount of monetary difference, then fine. You'll stay for the culture in most cases. But if you're throwing that amount of money, I'm not being funny, culture is going to go out the window. It's absolutely going to go out the window.

Chad (36:21.703)

That the pure and simple. Pure and simple. Yes. So.

Chad (36:37.415)

But you know that you cannot trust Zuck, period. So that number better be big enough so that if I'm only there two days and he kicks my ass to the curb, okay, cool, my bank account is flush.

Emi B (36:41.998)

No, of course not. No, never.

Emi B (36:50.702)

Yeah, it's fat. absolutely. I'm okay if I'm out of the market for a year, two years, because there's still money in my bank account. Not a problem.

Chad (36:57.959)

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, anybody who I've led or would lead or mentor, I would definitely say, look, what is best for your family? That is that's what matters the most. And don't be not your not your work family. I'm talking about your actual fucking family. Right. What is best for your family? What can because again, you want to you want to be able to work to live.

Emi B (37:08.717)

Mm-hmm.

Emi B (37:14.52)

Yeah.

Chad (37:24.401)

Right? Not live to work. And what the company wants you to do is they want you to work to live or live to work. I'm sorry. They want you to live to work and be at work every day and live the vision and live the culture and live the bullshit. Right? No. Exactly. Which is why when you listen to a lot of these these founders like Elon Musk talking about how he used to sleep in his his fucking office at night, it's like it's like motherfucker. Yeah, you own the company.

Emi B (37:36.558)

It's not my company. Yeah, I don't own the company. I didn't start the company. Yeah, I go off in Big City.

Emi B (37:49.112)

Good, it's your company, you do that. Yeah, you're the one of the richest men in the world. Of course you're gonna do that, fine. I'll do it.

Chad (37:54.553)

It, yeah, give me enough money and I'll do that. And that's what Zuck's doing right now is he's giving them enough money to say, okay, this is best for my family. And if my bank account is flush, I don't care. Have a nice day because none of these, none of these founders give two shits about me.

Emi B (38:03.415)

Yeah.

Emi B (38:09.675)

Yeah, absolutely. No, no. And it's so true. I 100 % agree. Your loyalty has to be to yourself. What are you trying to achieve? Is the job going to give you what you're trying to achieve as quickly as possible? Absolutely. Nine times out 10, money's going to get you there.

Chad (38:24.029)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (38:36.643)

Okay, I mean, this one is from TechCrunch. Remember Cluely, where the startup founder Roy Lee was suspended by Columbia University because he and a co-founder developed a tool to cheat on job interviews for software engineers. Now, again, not cheat on tests in Columbia, but cheat on job interviews for software engineers. Well, guess what? Said startup, Cluely, just pulled off the SaaS equivalent of a Vegas magic trick.

more than doubling ARR from 3 million to 7 million in one week. In one week. Founder Roy Lee swears, it wasn't a glitch in the Matrix, but rather the enterprise rollout of their AI meeting assistant that reads the room, whispers useful information in your ear, and probably knows what you're going to say before you do. I guess, Emmy?

Do you feel that you know lion is a part of the game these days?

Emi B (39:39.966)

depends what game. So if it's a pub quiz, now I'm not gonna lie, if it's a pub quiz, then I'm cheating all the way through because I'm not clever enough to know about general knowledge, you know, so I'm there always like on my phone under the table, do not use your phone kids. Yeah, yeah, I'm using my phone. don't care, you know. But in this situation, I don't think this is cheating. I think this is clever work. I think this is clever work. Why, why have to do all the thinking yourself? You get into those environments, you're in front of the clients.

Chad (39:41.819)

You

Chad (39:52.957)

way.

Chad (40:02.685)

Sure. Yeah.

Emi B (40:08.962)

Sometimes you just have a bit of a freeze where you can't remember what to say next or you miss a trick and they go, you know, if I went back, if I went down this angle, this would have been great in, you know, in terms of like kind of hooking that customer. I think this is a fantastic tool. I think this guy is intelligent. I think he's clever. And I think this is visionary. I'm all for it. So do I call it cheating? No, Helping, assisting.

Chad (40:09.053)

Mm-hmm.

Chad (40:33.597)

So it's only cheating when the employees are doing it and not when the company is doing it. Is that what I'm hearing? Because all these companies are trying to use AI right now. And from my understanding, 80 % of CEOs said they're trying to actually transition or at least find areas of adoption for transition of AI in their workforce, Exactly.

Emi B (40:43.33)

Mm.

Emi B (40:46.816)

Everybody's using AI, yeah.

Emi B (40:57.09)

Yeah, everybody's an AI first organization, but candidates do it. No, no. It's like, how is it okay for the organizations, but not for candidates? Don't be ridiculous. You know, they're going to use it for doing their resumes. They're going to use it to think about interview questions and how to answer interview questions. They're going to do it at every part of their job hiring process. we have to do as organizations, make sure we actually talk into real candidates who can actually do the actual job. So we're making sure our assessments are.

Chad (41:07.174)

Yes.

Emi B (41:26.998)

robust, but you cannot say that candidates cannot use AI when organizations are using it. It's ridiculous.

Chad (41:35.569)

Yeah, it's a double standard. It's a double standard and I have to say that, you know.

Emi B (41:41.664)

Yeah.

Chad (41:44.637)

And that being said, I gotta say that I am not going to do the creepy uncle joke this week. We're just gonna go ahead. We're going to, no, we're not, I'm not gonna do the creepy uncle joke. Joel likes to call it a dad joke, but I guarantee you he doesn't tell those jokes to his daughter. So we're gonna be at Wreckfest.

Emi B (41:57.4)

Really? No joke?

Chad (42:10.811)

We're going enjoy ourselves. We're going to come back and we're going to have a blast. Not just, not just this week, but we come back on the show. Thanks so much again, Emmy for, for coming on for, for Joel again. and we'll see you soon. We out.

Emi B (42:25.26)

Abslily, be out.