This week, the boys discuss the recent layoffs at Checkr and the launch of connected TV (CTV) and live event ads on LinkedIn. They speculate on Checkr's future and the potential for LinkedIn to tap into the B2B market with video advertising. They also highlight the importance of targeting decision-makers and the challenges of streaming partnerships. In this conversation, Joel and Chad discuss various topics including the potential for LinkedIn to automate job ads on streaming services, the diverging paths of Job.com and Job&Talent, the acquisition of Searchlight by Multiverse, and the partnership between Waymo and UberEats for automated food delivery. They also play a game of 'Who'd You Rather' between Summer and Cariloop. Automation, recruitment, and the future of work ... throw in a fat man in a red suit and you've got Christmas.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION COMETH
Intro: Hide your kids lock the doors. You're listening to HRs most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
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Joel: Oh, Yeah. Just two gangsters of love speaking on the pompitous of work. Hi kids. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Maurice Cheesman.
Chad 3: This is Chad 1864 Sowash.
Joel: And on this episode, checking out of Checkr LinkedIn embraces the big screen and who'd you rather, let's do this.
Chad 3: Okay. Okay. Before we get into this, I have a question. So, here in Indiana, I've been trying to mole through this over the last couple of days. Here in Indiana, we've had what's called the brain drain, which means people get educated here and then they leave. So let's say we have tons of engineers that are in Purdue.
Joel: Sure. Rose-Hulman, Purdue. Yeah.
Chad 3: Right. They go to Purdue, they get educated, they eject. Right. They get the fuck out of Indiana Okay. And they do for a number of reasons, but the competition for companies to attract great talent to a state. Economic developments. And working with state government and working with federal government. I know that is a thing they talk about all the time. So, set this up.
Joel: Set it up.
Chad 3: This week, the Arizona Supreme Court ruled that a near total abortion ban from 1864 is enforceable. How do companies doing business in the state of Arizona who are trying their damn just to get the great talents into their companies, into Arizona into Phoenix, into Tempe, and into Arizona. How do they deal with this? Because this is going to be a real recruiting issue for companies trying to compete for great talent. How do they do it?
Joel: Well, first off talking about college, college is recruiting students. A lot of students have.
Chad 3: That's a good point. Shit.
Joel: News reports coming out that students don't want to go to schools where abortion is quite frankly, illegal. Not even a gray area. It's just straight up civil War era laws.
Chad 3: Think of all the fun that you have in college.
Joel: All the dumb fun, all the bad decisions that you make in college, and also trying to make the Plan B pill illegal. And so.
Chad 3: I don't get it, man.
Joel: Yeah. Very, very confusing. I mean, I think the GOP has to be wondering, be careful what you wish for. They've been wishing for a Supreme Court to sort of strike down Roe for 30, 40, 50 years. And they've gotten it, and they may lose a whole lot of elections because of it. Trump is kind of moonwalking this issue, throwing it to the states. People are gonna vote on this. People are gonna vote on this issue like they have in certain states, and it's gonna be a loser for the GOP. But the GOP has made this...
Chad 3: It has been.
Joel: Made this marriage with the conservative right. Who support them in terms of canvassing houses and voting and money. And so they've made this deal with the devil, and now they have to dance with the devil. And November should be very interesting. The question is, does it stay with the states? If it does, I think more states than not are gonna vote down the laws that are there now, does it go to the federal level, which I don't think it will. I'm sure a lot of companies wish that it would, because it becomes a real game of whack-a-mole to say, what states are we gonna do business in and hire in? We've had companies say, Hey, we'll ship you to whatever state you want for this healthcare. That's a pain in the ass. Companies don't wanna do that. So, yeah.
Chad 3: Well, that's just because they're there already. They won't put new locations in those states. And again, I don't wanna get away from this is... They're taking the right away from women. And that's their decision. A woman's decision. And I mean, I don't want to get away from that, but as this podcast focuses on business. The impact for these states, again, they're shooting themselves in the foot. I mean, this is... Again, I've been saying for years, we are trying to go back to 1930. I was wrong. We're trying to go back to the 18 fucking 60s.
Joel: It's quite a dichotomy that you have states that are "business friendly", Arizona, Texas, Florida, low taxes, low regulation. But then you flip the script and say, oh, by the way, abortion's illegal in our state. Companies have to like, put their dollars to work and get politicians that are gonna make a more friendly environment for recruiting and retaining talent. Period. You can't lure me to Texas with low regulations in taxes, and then in the back door, tell me like, oh, by the way, women are screwed in this state. Sorry.
Chad 3: Yeah. And take your rights away, Yeah. Whew. Not that Indiana's any better. Okay.
Joel: We're only a fourth into 2024. We got 200 and some days left 'till the election. It'll be fun.
Chad 3: Ooh, I can't wait to be on the beach. Anyway, shout out.
Joel: That's true. This is messing with your vibe, man.
Chad 3: Ooh. It's killing my Euro vibe man.
Joel: Chad's had some Euro energy going on, and...
Chad 3: Yeah, I have.
Joel: This is not good for any of that. So, yeah, let's...
Chad 3: Shout out.
Joel: Let's get to some shout outs. All right. Number one, Adam Chambers, one of our favorite guests. One of our favorite firing squads. We didn't have video at the time, but my man was in a basement somewhere at his mom's house, maybe, I don't know. He had pillows over his head.
Chad 3: He's on a WeWork.
Joel: Trying to sound as good as possible on the... Which we gave him... I think we both gave him a rousing applause. That was a company called Applichat, which he pivoted into nurse recruiting. He's not the first one to see dollars in healthcare. And he made that move. We've kind lived through him. He's from Ireland.
Chad 3: Oh, yeah.
Joel: Belfast. He goes to Mexico. He does salsa dancing with beautiful women in South America.
Chad 3: He was in Spain.
Joel: Spain. He's all over the place. So, anyway, he finally got married. I don't know if we're plotting that or maybe it's a sad note of his singledom is gone, but he obviously met.
Chad 3: Very happy for him.
Joel: Quite a lucky woman and couldn't be happier for this kid, Adam Chambers, man good for you. Enjoy life and.
Chad 3: Well.
Joel: Keep doing what you're doing, man.
Chad 3: I gotta say from those wedding pictures, he's definitely punching up because, he did incredibly well. So hopefully... She probably has bad eyesight, but, good luck kids. Good luck kids.
Joel: That's not nice.
Chad 3: Oh, Adam knows I love him.
Joel: I know Adam he's fine.
Chad 3: My shout out goes to shitty comms departments. The following came from an HR leader. This week directly connected to us. "SmartRecruiters has not announced that change to its customers yet about Rebecca Carr becoming the interim CEO. Also, the Blueboard disappearing Act was nuts. They never contacted us about them dissolving the company." So this is a customer in a leadership position. So to all of those vendors out there and comms departments out there, make sure your customer engagement game is tight. Okay. Your customers need to know what the fuck's going on.
Joel: Yeah. Don't be stupid.
4: You're so dumb. You're really dumb.
Chad 3: You're dumb.
4: For real.
Joel: All right. My last shout out Seth Godin is a marketing guru, if you will, that I've been following for 20 some years. If you ever read Purple Cow it's a great book to kind of starting out in marketing. But anyway, he has launched a few things over the years. He actually launched a job site not too long ago and then shut it down eventually, if that tells you something about how hard running a job board is and how bad of a business that it is in most cases. But he just launched a site called GOODBIDS. You know, there's not really a good marketplace for giving to charity. Silent auction kind of thing. So he's building kind of a marketplace. They have some really cool bidding items. One is have your name in the next John Grisham novel. You'll be a character like Chad Sowash could be a character.
Chad 3: Oh, that's cool.
Joel: In a novel.
Chad 3: Oh, that's cool.
Joel: Fight Club movie poster signed a lot of sports memorabilia and all of that goes to charities that you select the money to go to. So goodbids.org if you wanna check it out, sign up, bid on some cool things. I highly recommend that. But Seth Godin, good job. Shout out to you for creating goodbids.org. Very nice. Very nice.
Chad 3: Very nice. Well, you might not be bidding for free stuff, but at chadcheese.com/free, you get the free stuff. Look at that T-shirt Joel Cheesman's wearing right now. Look at it. If you're on YouTube, you can see that that is sexy.
Joel: Welcome to The Junk.
Chad 3: That's some guns and roses sex appeal right there.
Joel: That is Sexy.
Chad 3: Brought to you by ERIN App. That's right kids ERIN app, the referral platform, plus free craft beer from our friends at Aspen Tech Labs. You could prospectively win free beer delivered to your door, not by us, by somebody who does that for a living. Whiskey by text Colonel bottle from Joel, bottle from myself. Great whiskey. And if it's your birthday Kids Rum from Plum. You might win.
4: Do you feel the tension.
Chad 3: On your birthday month.
4: In the air right now? I know I can. I can feel it all the way down in my plums.
Joel: That's right Chad, a few listeners are celebrating another trip around the sun. No order if they were in the Trail of Totality this past week with the Eclipse.
Chad 3: Oh, I was.
Joel: But they were celebrating other trip around the sun. Stephen Rothberg, Sean Godfrey, Rick Carner, Jason Casey, Jason Crowell, Amanda Semanski, Lauren Berger, Molly Stum, Dave Lowry, and Brian Moore. All celebrate another trip.
5: Happy birthday.
Joel: Around the sun this week. Happy birthday listeners.
Chad 3: They just reminds me of Bad Boys. Mike Lowry. Who are you? Are you Mike Lowry? No, I'm Mike Lowry. All right. We got events. We got events. We're going to Unleash America in Vegas. That's at Caesars Forum which is a great little area. I mean.
Joel: Oh yeah.
4: All right. All right. All right.
Chad 3: Not only is the Forum great I think for an event, but the link is right there. You've got all the great restaurants. We are taking the leap and literally jumping off the top of the stratosphere with Matt Bauer from Outhire. That's right. CEO of Outhire.
Joel: And a package of depends for me, my friend. Oh no.
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Chad 3: Dude. It's over 800 feet. And yes, you, you can jump with us or you can nominate a friend or enemy. Just go to chadcheese.com and right on the top of the page, you can click the button that says, Jump with Us. Nominate yourself or someone else. All thanks to the high flying staff over at Outhire. So listener, you gotta let go of those outdated hiring processes and technologies. You gotta take the leap. See what I did there?
Joel: I see what you did there.
Chad 3: Go to outhire.ai today. Damn, I know you're excited. I know you're excited.
Joel: I'm so excited. My wife is super excited too. She's like, have you done your will? Have you updated the will yet?
Chad 3: Then we're going to the Minus5 bar, but before that, let's talk about this. Great people sent me a box. Did you get one? Did you get a box?
Joel: And me, I didn't know who it was.
Chad 3: Excellent.
Joel: There was no note. Just a mysterious cigar bottle.
Chad 3: I had a note.
Joel: Oh, you had a note. Okay.
Chad 3: You probably threw the note away because you saw the Stagg Barrel strength Bourbon. You saw a cigar, you saw the Glencairn Glass. Did you get a model of Fireball?
Joel: I didn't get the Stagg.
Chad 3: Did you... Fireball?
Joel: I got a west.
Chad 3: Mini Fireball.
Joel: I didn't get a mini fireball. Is there a story there?
Chad 3: I got a fireball, and I bet the Fireball is supposed to keep me warm while we are in Omaha's Ice Castle.
Joel: Oh, okay.
Chad 3: At the Minus5 bar with Diane and Jane from... Great people in Omaha from John Pixel. So how can you get into the party? Well follow Joel and me on LinkedIn. You can check out our latest posts where we push the registration link out there. Yeah. Gonna get you a little parka. It's gonna feel like it's Finland all in the desert. It's great. Then on May 8th at the Neon Boneyard, if you have not seen this place.
Joel: Very sexy.
Chad 3: You've gotta go to Google.
5: I'm Happy.
Chad 3: You gotta go to Google. And it's not gonna take you to a porn site, I promise you. You type in Neon Boneyard and all the pictures that come up on Google, it is amazing. We're gonna be partying there, basking in the neon glow. But just go to chadcheese.com/events or go to the chadcheese.com, click on events in the upper right hand corner and click on the join wait list button there. Join us, our friends from Plum and it's gonna be a good time.
Joel: Love it, dude. Vegas, we're getting too old for this shit, man. We gotta pace ourselves a little bit. Pace ourselves. Pace ourselves.
Chad 3: Speak for yourself, Mr. I'm ready for this.
Joel: All right, here we go.
5: Layoffs.
Joel: Before we get to the news.
5: What?
Joel: Yeah, we got some big.
5: Layoff.
Joel: Layoff News, Checkr. Checkr has laid off 382 employees due to a...
Chad 3: Wow.
Joel: Slow down in hiring per the company. The layoff's affecting 32% of its workforce aimed to improve efficiency. There's that word again. Amid of economic challenges, in case you missed it, Checkr services include criminal record checks and identity verification with clients like Uber and Netflix. The startup, not quite a startup anymore, but they're valued at $5 billion. That was back in 2022. They've raised, $679 million in funding.
Chad 3: Wow.
Joel: Chad, what can only be, I guess called a train wreck of sorts. What are your thoughts on the news out of Checkr?
Chad 3: Well, it seems like they're not gonna be the one buying Fama. We keep talking about all these background check companies that should be talking to Ben Mones about the buying Fama and really evolving. It doesn't look like that's happening here. Do you think we're looking at just prepping for acquisition and/or just go IPO.
Joel: Oh, I don't think IPO's anywhere in the future. So we've recently talked about the three big companies in this space historically have been HireRight, they were acquired by a private equity taken off the public markets.
Chad 3: Off the board.
Joel: Yeah. Their valuation from the sale was $1.65 billion. And then you had Sterling and First Advantage merge, I guess like it was technically an acquisition of First Advantage over Sterling that valued the companies at $2.2 billion. So basically in 2022, investors were wise enough to think that Checkr was twice as valuable as two or bigger.
Chad 3: 5 billion.
Joel: Yeah. Like $5 billion. So clearly they weren't going to grow into that valuation. So they have to cut costs and needs which cut costs is, I don't know, a third of your head count off the books. Frankly, now that they've cut, they need to grow if they're gonna have any hope of getting into that valuation. So that means... I think it's a perfect time to go buy Fama. Like take some of this money that you're saving from employees and there are a ton of mom and pop background check companies with 25, 50, a 100 clients. Like start buying those companies up. Start consolidating because HireRight, Sterling, all those guys have about 12 to 18 months to figure out what the fuck they're doing with private equity and the acquisitions. You have a window now and hopefully some money in the bank to go consolidate, consolidate, consolidate, and hopefully make the dollars that you're saving worthwhile because that valuation is...
Chad 3: Ridiculous.
Joel: It makes life hard. We've talked about companies raising too much money. This is a case where Checkr raised too much money and now we're seeing the negative impacts of that, unfortunately for the employees.
Chad 3: Good luck guys.
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4: Good topics.
Joel: All right. LinkedIn has launched Connected TV or what the kids call CTV Chad ads and live event ads aiming to help marketers tap into the growing video consumption trend. CTV ads allow marketers to display video campaigns, campaigns on home TV sets, expanding, reach beyond the app, live event ads promote upcoming LinkedIn events in stream enhancing event awareness. These initiatives come as LinkedIn seeks to offer more video focused marketing options. Chad, is LinkedIn listening to our show? 'Cause we've been recommending them get more into videos. What are your thoughts on the news out of LinkedIn?
Chad 3: Have we just become best friends? So there are two aspects I want take a look at here, and is first and foremost the platform itself and being able to target on the platform versus streaming. So, we'll take a look at LinkedIn first. So on LinkedIn's post about this move, they mention "reach, engage decision makers to help our customer's capture buyer's attention." Now, I mentioned last week that I thought LinkedIn and their latest moves were going to pivot toward marketing. And they are, knowing that those dollars available in those budgets are much larger, but would be in combination with the smaller recruitment advertising budget set. I mean, they're still going to... They're gonna have those products available. Last week, I thought they were going to go toward the B2C with the whole avocado thing that they've done before, but they didn't. They're focusing on B2B once again, the "reach engaged decision makers". So why is this smart? The value proposition goes through the roof when companies are selling higher revenue business products, which cost 100s of 1000s of dollars or millions of dollars per year versus the B2C market with avocados, Tommy John underwear and meal kits. Blue Apron meal kits the focus in revenue opportunity is much larger. Then I wanna talk about.
Chad 3: The other aspect of this is, the, the streaming partnerships. So let's just take a look at Paramount Plus, 'cause they're talking about Paramount Plus, Roku, Samsung, and then also Universal Premium Streaming. So, paramount plus I watch Halo, mayor of Kingston, Kingstown, Tulsa, king Ray Donovan. They're all shows that I've enjoyed, but that seems like a huge separation from the B2B buyers on LinkedIn. How are they targeting decision makers with streaming? The short answer is they aren't. So, LinkedIn knows who the CEOs are and the business leaders are in their platform, but when they start to stream out, that's gonna be an issue. So they try to make these things one, right, we're going B2B, we're going B2B, and this is how we're getting larger distribution. One, the value proposition on the LinkedIn side of the house value proposition should be much higher because you're gonna be targeting leaders and people who actually make decisions versus the streaming aspect. I think it's interesting. I think it's definitely, a way forward. This was, I mean, the only LinkedIn news I've been excited about in the very long time.
Joel: Yeah. My comment, we'll start with...
Chad 3: [laughter] People can just become best friends.
Joel: There's a big if, if they can pull this off.
Chad 3: Yes.
Joel: And you and I both know that LinkedIn don't have a great history of pulling things off. Effectively.
Chad 3: They don't. They Don't.
Joel: But there's a lot to be excited about this. Retargeting is something that most people, especially on the employment side, don't take advantage of. People don't understand that you can put like some code on your ATS and then serve ads on Instagram about working at your company. Like it, yeah I know agencies do it, but a lot of people just don't understand it. So the thought of having, placing an ad on LinkedIn and having retargeting code on your ATS or your site or your company site. And then having, based on that, if they can connect, I'm on LinkedIn, or I go to the website, and then I'm connected through my streaming service, that I'm watching a show.
Chad 3: Right?
Joel: And I've been to this site, and now I can see an ad from that company. So think about a job for a second. Say I'm really looking, somebody comes to LinkedIn, they're looking for sales jobs, and the company is posting a sales position. And now when they post the job, it says, Hey, would you like this ad to show up on, Tulsa King or whatever, or properties and you're targeting this? Maybe it's this age range, and this is who watches that show. It's...
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: I mean, the targeting could be really, really, really interesting. Most companies don't have the wherewithal to just say, yeah, let's put a video spot. Let's put a commercial on an ad. Now, what becomes really interesting to me is we've all seen these movies that are made on AI, where you just say like, show me a dog walking through a cornfield, blah, blah, blah. And it literally produces a dog walking through a cornfield.
Joel: I don't know how I came up with a dog in a cornfield, but anyway, now imagine it's saying, okay, we'll create an ad based on the job posting you just put up. We have your company logo, because that's on your profile page. We have kind of what you do, where you're located, etcetera, and take all that data and create sort of a template ad, or maybe like, here are three ads that you can show touting the job position that's open at your company, and then redirect people, from that ad to go to LinkedIn and apply to the job. That becomes really interesting. If you can give a company.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: The power to automate commercials that are, that look great, that are AI produced.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: And automated LinkedIn can make a shit ton of money doing like rinse and repeating ads for jobs on these stations that people watch, and that goes into their open AI, relationship that goes into their Microsoft stuff.
Chad 3: Think about targeting though, from those ads. You could have a multiple of ads. One could be that this person is a black female, and the target person in the ad is actually a black female. So you can see yourself.
Joel: Sure.
Chad 3: In that ad even more. So you could target those out even better. I...
Joel: Sure.
Chad 3: I can't see LinkedIn doing anything like that.
Joel: You can't see them pulling this off.
[laughter]
Chad 3: I think that's a bridge too far for me. I'm just trying to get down to the basics here. And I'm having problems with them actually getting the basics done.
Joel: Yeah.
Chad 3: But yeah, I think that's probably a little bit much. [laughter]
Joel: That is a future that employers would embrace because everybody would love to see their ad on it, on a show that people watch. They'd love to see like, oh, and then see who watched it and how many times it was seen and have people actually apply. Maybe a quick way to point, link, I don't know, point your camera and upload. I don't know how that would work, but easy apply through your phone while you're watching TV. Anyway, it's very exciting if they can pull it off. And it looks like, at least from your point of view, it's not gonna happen in that case. Well, it'll just be a big bummer of a news story.
Chad 3: [laughter] Sorry to squash those dreams.
Joel: Do It LinkedIn. Come on baby. Come on, come on. The Kool-Aid is getting little stale and it's starting to taste good again. Don't...
Chad 3: Do The easy stuff. Okay. Get overtaken. Okay.
Joel: All right. Maybe, maybe, maybe... Our next story. Let's talk tale of two companies.
Chad 3: Yes.
Joel: First off, Jobandtalent. Spanish based company whose 2023 revenue came in at $450 million with the US.
Chad 3: Hello.
Joel: Becoming the company's largest and fastest growing market.
Chad 3: Yep.
Joel: As well as its most profitable. And now for something completely different Job.com, who's been very quiet lately and whose most newsworthy achievement in 2024, so far as a CEO with a 7%, seven, not 77%
Chad 3: Wow.
Joel: Approval rating on Glassdoor. And you thought.
Chad 3: Wow.
Joel: Trump and Biden were crushing the favorability scores with a company rating, not much better of 19% approval featuring talk of major payroll issues. Chad, your thoughts on these two diverging companies?
Chad 3: Yeah, so I mean, they're... Obviously, we can have the leadership discussion and probably have a whole fucking podcast around that. I'm gonna kind of put that to the side and just talk about model.
Joel: Yep.
Chad 3: It's talk a little bit about the models and we actually had Aaron Stewart, who is an amazing.
Joel: Lovely guy.
Chad 3: Presenter.
Joel: Lovely guy.
Chad 3: And pitcher. That guy... If you need somebody to pitch for you, that guy can pitch. But the model, and we actually... He was on stage with us in Austin where I think he lives in Texas. But he was on stage pitching and I just couldn't... You loved it to death. And I love him, but I just couldn't get the model. I couldn't absorb.
Joel: Yeah.
Chad 3: What they were gonna try to do, because their model at Job.com was to buy up staffing companies. Buy up staffing companies and infuse their tech into those staffing companies. Now, here's the big problem. Once you start buying staffing companies with a margin of 15 to 20 plus percent, to be able to take that money down to 2%, which is what they were talking about, is fucking ridiculous. That's never gonna happen. You have to flip it the other way around. And you have to become the operating system for said staffing companies for the industry. So now back to Jobandtalent. They have done some acquisitions of staffing companies. They haven't done as much as, as Job.com or yeah Job.com has. What they have done is they have created an operating system for staffing companies. And what does that mean? Very simply, there shouldn't be somebody on a phone every day talking to somebody about coming in for a warehouse fucking position.
Chad 3: Those positions should be on an app that are automatically targeting individuals who have those skills. And in Jobandtalent, it's very simple. You go in, you answer a few questions. Well, first off, you can take a look at all the jobs that are available in your area. You can click the one that you want, you can ask a few questions, you can get the job right then, you get the job right then, okay, now this job could be a shift or it could be the job itself. And that's the beauty about this whole market is that if I'm already working at Amazon, but yet I wanna pick up a shift at another warehouse or something like that, I can go on Jobandtalent. I can make a little side hustle cash. If I'm a nurse and I want to pick up a little bit more cash, although everybody's... Everything, the schedules are full at the hospital that I work with or the clinic that I work with, I can look at another one that's in the next city or country or county, or not country. County close to me.
Chad 3: And I can go and I can do that. This is where work is moving from a shift standpoint. And the problem is Job.com, they couldn't make that happen because of the revenue models. 20% to 2%. Jobandtalent, who's coming from Europe is smashing them. Smashing them. And how many companies come to the US and smash it? Not many.
Joel: Not very many. It typically doesn't work out very well, Chad.
5: 60% of the time. It works every time.
Joel: By the way, if I was gonna tell you, you have the choice of picking Job.com or Jobandtalent with an ampersand in between the two, which do you think will be the more successful company you would automatically think Job.com would? Look, tell me if you've heard this story before. Cool name, colorful founder.
Chad 3: Pets.com.
Joel: [laughter] Jobster, those that remember Jobster.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: Very colorful.
Chad 3: Oh yeah.
Joel: Little more abrasive.
Chad 3: Jason. Much like Aaron.
Joel: Yes.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: But a Carnival Barker. I think you've called both of of them.
Chad 3: Oh, yeah.
Joel: At some point.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: Great sales guys. Uh. Big personalities. Little bit of direction challenge with both. What are we gonna be when we grow up? If you remember, Job.com had some credit card thing that they gave like, [laughter] it was really confusing and they pivoted to.
Chad 3: That's how they paid people.
Joel: Yeah, I mean.
Chad 3: They paid it through the credit card.
Joel: Yeah.
Chad 3: And Jobandtalent. What do you do? You pay through the App?
Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Credit card versus app. Very apropos.
Chad 3: Hello.
Joel: Comparison there. Yeah. So, and then to go into the other Jason Goldberg a Jobster was lucky enough to not have glassdoor, when he was apparently threatening people. And I was covering this when I was blogging back in the day. They had a...
Joel: Yeah.
1: Amazing team. I can't say that Job.com has an amazing team. 'Cause I don't know most of them, but.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: Poorly, poorly received. CEO, people are unhappy. There were probably issues with paying people at Jobster. What's... Like, layoffs, things like that. Now, if you look at Job.com's insights like headcount has remained pretty steady. My guess is that's because of the acquisitions. They keep adding headcount by buying these companies. But there's clearly trouble in the house.
Joel: And when you have trouble in the house, like it just spills over into everything. Jobandtalent, regardless of the name, has somehow figured out the sauce of ease of use. Young people understand, this is the way that I wanna work. Give me my phone.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: Let me apply, let me work, get paid through that. And that just seems to work where people like Snap, Snagajob, Snag, not Snap, Snagajob.
Chad 3: Snag. Yep.
Joel: They were gonna try this. A few others. So yeah. Tale of two companies. I mean, I think you look inside management, it just seems to be a mess at Job.com, which is unfortunate. We both like Aaron a lot. I don't know what's going on there. We haven't heard from them in a long time, where we used to hear from them all the time about what's going on.
Joel: Let me tell you about what we're doing. They're very, very quiet. And then we have this company coming out of Spain and just kicking ass and showing a lot of companies, how it's done. I'm wondering how like a Jobcase is looking at Jobandtalent success and saying, where did we, where can we catch this lightning? How do... 'Cause they have a lot of users and I don't know Yeah. How they're monetizing it, but...
Chad 3: Yeah. Shifts.
Joel: Jobcase might wanna look at Jobandtalent and how do we change our model into something more, Payable.
Chad 3: Or Jobandtalent might wanna look at Jobcase from an acquisition standpoint.
Joel: That's true too, that's true too.
Chad 3: Just because of the size.
Joel: They've raised a billion three.
Chad 3: Yeah. The staffing industry in the US alone is $218 billion dollars.
Joel: Yeah.
Chad 3: Billion dollars. So the ability for a Jobandtalent to buy into a Jobcase that has a humongous fucking community already.
Joel: Yeah. Yep.
Chad 3: I think that's a very good call, Cheesman.
Joel: That could be interesting. Yeah. Well, thank you.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: Thank you. Do you like that one better than StepStone buying Career Builder?
Chad 3: Oh, yes. Yeah. This one makes sense. This one makes sense, Chad.
[laughter]
5: Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Joel: All right, Chad, I first read this as a Marvel story when it said Multiverse, but no, no, it's not a, it's not a Marvel story. London based Multiverse, which claims to deliver a new kind of apprenticeship that combines education, work, and technology has acquired San Fran based Searchlight, which says it provides a bias free AI that filters top applicants by relevant work experience, hard skills and soft skills. Terms were not disclosed. Searchlight had previously raised $19.5 million and employs 16 people, while Multiverse has raised $418 million and employs a little over 1000 folks. Chad, your thoughts on the Multiverse Searchlight deal?
Chad 3: Yeah, I see this much like Workday's acquisition of HiredScore. Workday hadn't a fucking clue about AI in training large language models, which means they didn't know how to explain and or defend them. Athena and the team at HiredScore lived and breathed it. So the tech and the acquisition made sense. In this case, Multiverse fills a gap with the Searchlight acquisition. In the same way Multiverse gains a platform geared toward IO science, culture data, hiring outcomes, basic auditing. And they've got a ton of integrations with different, different applicant tracking system platforms that are out there. I know trying to go out and actually hire individuals to build something like this for a platform that is going to take a very long time and a hell of a lot of money. This is a shortcut for them.
Chad 3: Not just from the standpoint of a tech, from a tech standpoint, but also from a people standpoint, from an expertise in-house standpoint. To me, this makes a hell of a lot of sense. And since last November during Multiverse layoffs, they laid off about 30 people. Founder Euan Blair. That's right. Tony Blair's kid, stated that the US business didn't meet revenue targets and required too much financial investment. And that Multiverse would have to focus on a more tailored approach in specific sectors for the US market, which is what we talk about on every show, just about. Almost weekly. Target a sector, knock it out of the park, then expand. Now they're feeding their data into Searchlight to accelerate that process in scale in those targeted sectors, meaning they can expand much faster. So again, if you take a more focused approach, how do you get to expansion faster? This is how you do it. You expand within that sector first and then you explode out. This is, I think, a smart acquisition for them and necessary.
5: Another One.
Joel: So you stole a lot of my thunder on this one. Particularly the Tony Blair relationship or relation there. I was hoping that you wouldn't mention that. So I could drop that one.
Chad 3: My Bad. My bad.
Joel: I could drop that Although the Searchlight founders are twins. So you didn't mention that. So I will mention that.
Chad 3: Yes, yeah.
Joel: They're twin ladies.
Chad 3: I was kind of eerie looking at that. Was saying did a... Is that an AI thing or? No. No, they're actually twin Chad.
Joel: They will be a founding team of AI, that's a billion dollar company one day. I've heard that on, on a podcast somewhere. The one thing for me is that Multiverse has been around since... They're on year eight.
Chad 3: Yep.
Joel: They've been around for a while. They're not profitable, the US I don't think is going the way, that they had hoped that it would. And they should be killing it. I mean, apprenticeships and that business should be doing very, very well.
Chad 3: Yep.
Joel: Very. So someone said, I'm sure let's get some tech in here. Let's get some people who know tech, not just Tony Blair's, is it his son? His son?
Chad 3: Kid. Kid, yeah.
Joel: Yeah. Just, okay, we've got a famous guy now we need people who know what the hell they're doing. So both founders are going to be an executive positions, with the company, which means they'll be helping drive the ship, which I think is good. They're not like leaving. It sounds like they're gonna be in it, at least for the next year. So.
Chad 3: Yeah, lock them in.
Joel: So, yeah. So lock them in. If they can bring people that know what they're doing. Bring San Francisco talent and Silicon Valley folks into this company. That has raised a ton of money. They were unicorn at one point. I don't know if they still are, but you have a lot of money. You have a high profile founder, now you have technology, you have people that know what they're doing there. They're Y Combinator, darling actually, some of the news stories that I read. So yes, it'll make sense. I mean, the apprenticeship thing with high tech stuff, there may be some growing pains there, but I think ultimately...
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: This is a much better chance of succeeding than Workday sucking up a company like HiredScore. I give this a lot better, chances of success because you don't have a Workday bureaucracy to deal with.
Chad 3: Yeah. Multiverse is still a fairly flexible, small, company in relation to Workday.
Chad 3: Totally agree. Totally agree.
Joel: All right, Let's get to one of my favorite games. I think it's one of your favorite games as well.
Chad 3: 2:00 AM in the bar. Who'd you rather?
Joel: Who'd You rather everybody. Here we go. All right. Here's how we play. We talk about two companies, startups that have recently gotten funding and Chad and I choose who we'd rather. Let's play first up. We've got New York City based Summer, a workplace student loan solution provider. They've raised $9 million in funding led by Rebalance Capital and SemperVirens. The funds will be used to expand the team and enhance the technology. Summer partners with employers to provide student loan and education assistant benefits. That is Summer and corner number one. Corner number two, we have Cariloop. A Richardson, Texas-based provider of a caregiver support platform. They've raised $20 million in Series C funding. The company helps families manage their care needs by connecting them to an employer-sponsored solution. Cariloop coaches provide professional support while its digital platform offers resources and tools to support caregiving. Chad, that is Cariloop and Summer. Who'd You rather?
Chad 3: I'm gonna start with Cariloop. So 43 million in total funding and have been around for 12 years. They've created a marketplace for caregivers with a concierge service built in. And since most people have no clue what fucking services are available, let alone which ones that would fit for them and their needs. Cariloop could be pretty much the technical infrastructure and operating system for partners and healthcare solutions nationwide. On the other hand, Summer, the only student repayment solution as a benefit I want to hear about is how companies can take on the burden themselves. I'm not interested in another scheme that puts a new shade of lipstick on the fucking corporate welfare pig. So it's 2:00 AM in the morning in the club, it's bumping. Who would I'd rather? I'd rather Cariloop.
5: What are you doing stepbro?
Joel: All right. Cariloop. So both of these hit home, for me.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: I had student debt and I have parents...
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: That I could help give care to.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: The question for me is, partly is who's in office? 'Cause Biden is really good about excusing student loans. And if that trend continues, we may not have a need for a company called Summer because no one will have student debt. No. We'll still have student debt, but yes, I want to hear about tax benefits for companies that pay off student loans or maybe match student loan payments.
Chad 3: Yes.
Joel: Let's get creative around this folks. Like also on the other end of not... Reducing the cost of college, that's a bigger question than I think corporate initiatives. But let's have something...
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: That incentivizes a company to help pay off student debt for their employees. To me, that is more exciting than let's just hire a company or buy a solution that people can then access and hopefully help, pay down stuff. Now on the care stuff, baby boomers, 77 million people, 10,000 people a day are retiring. That means sickness, that means care. That means, assisted living, that means hospice. Like these are real issues for me.
Chad 3: Yes.
Joel: So I know there are big issues for...
Chad 3: Everyday Americans.
Joel: A lot of other people.
Chad 3: Yes.
Joel: And that also I think you could also carry, does childcare come into this? I don't know. But definitely on the aging parent thing, would I like to hire professionals to help me through that? Would I like to have that benefit as someone who has parents to deal with. So for me as well, like, I think they both deserve some applause, but yeah. Maybe it's age bias or where... I paid off my student loan 20 years ago, so I haven't really had to deal with that lately. Whereas I have an 84-year-old dad. So just recency bias. I think I'm also...
5: I'm happy.
Joel: Picking Cariloop at the corner of the bar. Stepping on the sticky floor. Sticky floor. All right. That is another game of who'd you rather, we're gonna take a quick break and come back and talk a little automation.
Joel: All right. Chad, Waymo and Uber. Technically Uber Eats are teaming up to launch automated Uber Eats in Waymo's Phoenix service area. Customers can opt for a robot delivery from select merchants, though they'll need to meet the vehicle outside to collect their order. No word yet if Chipotle is participating in this test market.
5: Oh my God, I love Chipotle...
[overlapping conversation]
Joel: But, Chipotle, we'll let you know when we find out. Chad, what are your thoughts on Waymo's marriage with Uber Eats?
Chad 3: I think Waymo is definitely not the product for this. I mean, they're also partnering with Serve Robotics, which is one of those the smaller...
Joel: They're 2D2. Yeah.
Chad 3: Kinda like robots and go down the sidewalk. Yeah, I see those in cities. I don't see those like in rural areas where they can get beat up by baseball bats and shit like that. But, there's also Nuro, N-U-R-O, these are autonomous vehicles that are really, they're built for this. The Waymo cars are literally just built for humans to be inside. So they're great for taxis, but in this case, I think the Nuro and the little sidewalk robot are probably the smart way to go. And maybe, I don't know, we'll see some evolution of this, but I think this is really interesting. The big question is, do you care? 'Cause you currently get stuff that's delivered to your doorstep, and all you have to do is go out. Somebody delivers it to you.
Joel: Oh yeah.
Chad 3: You take it.
Joel: It's lovely.
Chad 3: But this one, you got to go out to the... You gotta put your shoes on. You gotta go out to the driveway. And I know this sounds fucking lazy, but you gotta do all those things. Open the door. It should be in the trunk. So they pop the trunk, you get the food out of the trunk, you close the trunk, and then you go back in. Is this something that you think you're gonna do? Or you're just gonna...
[overlapping conversation]
Joel: I would love if they have the buffet heat light in the trunk if they're keeping my food warm or not, by the way, Chad, if there's a barbacoa bowl in that trunk, I'm walking through a snake pit.
Chad 3: You don't care.
Joel: And an alligator.
Chad 3: Okay.
Joel: Yeah. To get my barbacoa bowl. Interestingly...
Chad 3: Walking Through Australia.
Joel: Yeah. And if there's some, if there's a bloom and onion in there, God damn it I'm fighting off, I'm fighting off Vikings and, Roman, soldiers. But we're gonna be in Phoenix, next week for the Paradox.
Chad 3: Yes.
Joel: Analyst meeting. And I'm gonna try this out. I'm gonna download Waymo. I'm gonna be like, take me to In-N-Out. So I'm gonna try the taxi service out. The people who have tried it that I've talked to really love it.
Chad 3: Oh, yeah.
Joel: So why not deliver food as part of, oh, you've already downloaded the app as our YouTube viewers can see. Check that out at youtube.com/atChadChees. Anyway, I'm a fan dude. Now I feel kind of bad. So now there's an employee that's gonna have to go take the food out to the car. Whereas today, like DoorDash goes into the restaurant and then takes so someone to pick it up.
Joel: Some poor slob, flipping burgers is gonna have to like, go out to the Waymo and put the food in, and then say like, go. And then, yes, I'm gonna have to go get it. Now the good thing is the tips are refunded if you choose the Waymo.
Chad 3: Yes.
Joel: So I think as a consumer, more people than not will choose to have to go out to the street than.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: Pay the tip. Now that's in my suburb area. If I live in a 50 story building, I may not want to go down and, and get my food. But for the suburbs baby.
Chad 3: Yeah.
Joel: Bring my barbacoa bowl. Get the buffet heating light. I'm hungry. We out.
Chad 3: We out.
SFX: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast forward it to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal and Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey. Or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuggle heads instead now. Go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back like an awful train wreck. You can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.