The recruiting industry behaves like a chess game sometimes. Pieces can move slowly or quickly, pieces get taken off the board and some get added over time. And like chess, the players who see many moves ahead tend to be the biggest winners.
This week saw a lot of chess gamin’.and the most impressive move was made by Paradox, but Job.com and Compono made moves too. Another player in iCIMS filed for an IPO to help it reload. Additionally this week, Apple was in the news, along with Uber and Lyft and OnlyFans made its way into the podcast for its second straight week. Enjoy another masterpiece powered by Sovren, JobAdx, and Jobvite.
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Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Oh yeah, the podcast that will never, ever get full FDA approval. What's up kiddies? It's your favorite global phenomenon, the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your cohost, Joel "I can't get no satisfaction" Cheeseman.
This is Chad " I'm drinking a super Bock, and am relaxed as fuck" Sowash.
And on this week show iCIMS falls for its IPO, Paradox puts a round peg in a round hole and OnlyFans does a 180. Or is it a 69? Yeah, you'll just have to stay tuned. What's up man, you're in Portugal? You look more relaxed than I've ever seen.
Chad (1m 0s):
Oh dude. And we landed last night at 5:30 local time, a few blocks away from the ocean here in Farro City. So we're in city center and we threw down our fricking luggage, went to a restaurant and the restaurant owner just moved from Rome and it was amazing. Great food. Go figure it was Italian food. Great food. Here's the funny part. I gave a little more than a 20% tip because it was amazing food, amazing service and we have a friend for life now. She couldn't believe that we provided a 20% tip.
Chad (1m 44s):
So we're starting off. Well, we're starting off. Well, not to mention also this is, if you're going to come to Portugal, this is your place. This specific Airbnb is right across from an Irish bar. And last night at two o'clock, I got up to take a piss. And as soon as I opened up the door, the alley was full of drunks, singing Irish drinking songs. It was, it made me smile so big. I was like, this is where I belong.
Joel (2m 19s):
So I'm glad you're on the a US reputation repair tour there in Portugal. That's nice. Keep giving those 20% tips and making us look good.
Chad (2m 27s):
I'll do my best.
Joel (2m 30s):
I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous. Yeah. If you look at, if you're falling, Chad or are connected on Facebook, like the pictures are gonna be coming furiously and the dude just looks so happy. So I'm happy for him.
Chad (2m 41s):
Joel (2m 43s):
Chad (2m 44s):
Joel (2m 45s):
So I'm going to bring it down a little bit. Shout out to Charlie Watts, the Rolling Stones drummer. He passed away this week at 80.
Chad (2m 54s):
Joel (2m 55s):
If I had to put money on the first Rolling Stone to go, it probably would not have been him.
Chad (2m 59s):
Joel (3m 0s):
Yeah. Shout out to him and the Stones. What's your favorite Rolling Stones song, Chad?
Chad (3m 4s):
Yeah. I Can't Get No Satisfaction. I mean, that's just the way, the way it is, but, but I am right now.
Joel (3m 10s):
Yeah. I want to throw in She's a Rainbow. Quite a nice summery tune. If you're in the mood.
Chad (3m 17s):
Paint it Black, I mean those, I mean the sixties, the sixties, like Vietnam era songs, Rolling Stones just killed there. Charlie, I mean 80 years old, man, they were still touring.
Joel (3m 30s):
And they still are without him. Yeah. They're going to replace him. So they, they keep trucking, man. Holy Shit.
Chad (3m 35s):
Yeah. No. And that's what Charlie would have wanted. I can now I don't know the guy, but I can almost guarantee you that's exactly what he would have wanted. And what I want is I want to give out a shout out to all of the new evergreen podcasts that are joining the HR channel, get ready kids.
Joel (3m 54s):
There you go.
Chad (3m 55s):
Katrina Collier from the HR Partner Perspective podcast, Shelley and Serge with the Recruitment Flux podcast, Alynn and Tracy with Talent Rebelcast, and Katie and Jackie with Inclusive AF, AKA as fuck, dude. We're building this network with amazing and diverse voices and I am fucking stoked.
Joel (4m 20s):
Well, they don't have a podcast yet, but if the boys at Caroo who made popular the HIA, the van sine, you need a BJ, BJ meaning Better Job have a new video ad. I don't know if you've seen this, but they give a hat tip to one of my favorites Oasis panning their hit. Don't look back in anger with don't feedback in anger. So if you haven't seen that one, kids go to LinkedIn and search Caroo and check out their version of don't look back and anger.
Chad (4m 50s):
C A R O O. Those guys are funny as fuck.
Joel (4m 57s):
Yes, they are Chad. This may be the most important shout out I've ever made.
Chad (5m 2s):
Ought oh. Drum roll.
Joel (5m 5s):
LinkedIn has solved the DEI recruitment challenges.
Chad (5m 10s):
I feel sarcasm. I feel sarcasm.
Joel (5m 12s):
They've saved us. Chad. Their new feature on LinkedIn Recruiter allows hiring managers to hide names and photos of job candidates to ensure employment decisions are based on qualifications rather than race. Chad LinkedIn has solved the diversity recruiting problem. You must be excited!
Chad (5m 35s):
It's amazing that they can add a feature that is what like 5 to 10 years late? I think every major platform that's out there has the ability to what you call blind profiles and LinkedIn? Again, this is just another example of a huge player that is not innovative at all. I mean, not even to innovative, they, their search is shit. Their targeting is shit their.... I mean, pretty much their holistic product itself is shit. Now the network is awesome, but this is a shit product that is going to continue to make ass-loads of money.
Joel (6m 14s):
So you're in favor of it?
sfx (6m 16s):
Oh hell no.
Chad (6m 18s):
Yeah. I'm just glad they caught up. What I am not in favor of is Jonathan Duarte getting six fucking screws in his shoulder. So apparently he and his son were mountain biking in Colorado and he took a tumble and he's going to need a bunch of rehab again. Six say, I think it was six, well, six screws in his shoulder and I think this is time, Jonathan buddy listen closely. You need to take up competitive napping with Cheeseman, get in the fantasy, the fantasy napping league.
Chad (6m 58s):
And I think it's time, brother.
Joel (6m 59s):
Yeah. Time to give it up. And you know who else is time to give it up? This came out this week. The baby from Nirvana's iconic album cover album.
Chad (7m 10s):
Nevermind. Gimme a break.
Joel (7m 11s):
Nevermind, is suing them for child pornography. The lawsuit states that the guy has suffered lifelong damages with the defendants, having knowingly benefited from their participation in his quote, "commercial sexual exploitation." Now, if irony comes to mind here, the cover and for our younger listeners who may not know the album is of a baby swimming in a pool, chasing a dollar bill, that's on a hook. So 30 years later, the dude is still chasing money that's out of reach. And this is total lunacy. It's got to get kicked out from the courts, but it's worth a shout out just for it's irony.
Chad (7m 56s):
Yeah. Well, I, the only thing I can follow that up with is shout out to Pfizer getting FDA approval for the COVID vaccine kids. That's right. So it's time for the US to step it, the fuck up and get their shit together. And I'll give you a personal story because over the past few weeks I've been fretting coming to another country. I've gotten vaccinated, but still, I just wasn't sure if they were going to let us in. So I started checking Portugal because it was like, oh, wait a minute. If we get over there and they have low VAX rates, what's it going to be like, well, like earlier this month in August, they actually hit their goal of 70% with the first jab, which they, which they had set for September 1st.
Chad (8m 45s):
So they nailed it. I looked this morning, they are at 82% first jab vacs that is over 10% in the last few weeks. And the US is having to have Biden push employers to mandate. Then he's also mandating for military. And pretty much anybody who's receiving federal funds. I mean, we've got to do something to press this because apparently Americans are fucking idiots.
Joel (9m 14s):
Yeah. And shout out to all the companies that are coming, you know, forward requiring vaccinations or creating incentives or disincentives financially to not do. So. I know Delta came out this week, Delta airlines saying that if you don't get the jab, there's going to be additional $200 a month tagged on to your healthcare. So companies are stepping up and also shout out, shout out to nurses for a second. I mean, I don't think we talk about them enough.
Chad (9m 42s):
Joel (9m 42s):
But good God. They went through a year of hell, hoping that, you know, the world would come to its senses, get vaccination and the world will go back to normal. We'll holy hell. If things, if the nightmare hasn't sort of restarted for them, if you know a nurse live with a nurse, whatever, give them a hug, give him a thank you. Like I can't, we can't shout out enough to nurses and the job that they do in light of sort of American stupidity and politicizing the vaccine and dealing with the new variant.
Chad (10m 13s):
Yes. We got to get this shit. Right. And one person who's getting shit right is Matt O'Donnell who's gift game is stepping up on Twitter. So big applause to Matt, appreciate the engagement, not to mention, trying to keep up on the gift game, man. That's awesome.
Joel (10m 29s):
Yep. And shout out to, to Airbnb, you mentioned Joe Biden. So Airbnb has stepped up and said that they will provide free housing for up to 20,000 Afghan refugees around the world. That's a lot of free housing. So shout out to Airbnb for stepping up for the Afghan refugees.
Chad (10m 52s):
Yeah. I, and as I sit here in an Airbnb and I will be in a Airbnb for the next five weeks, I will continue to give them my money because of purpose and getting behind human beings. To me, there's nothing better than a brand who says something and then does it, and then does more than what you expect. So shout out to Airbnb. No question.
Joel (11m 16s):
And if you are an Afghan refugee, Chad is currently out of his house for the next month. So hit him up, if you need a place to stay and you want to check out beautiful Columbus, Indiana.
Chad (11m 28s):
Everybody wants to do that. Everybody.
Joel (11m 30s):
Yeah. I've got a couple of company ones real quick. Joeveo, I got a shout out. They've earmarked more than 24 million to grow its business in India, where it recently signed contracts with some of that country's largest employers. KJ and company continue to rock it. And Wespire a Boston-based provider of employee engagement software, which is a hot topic on our show, raised 13 million in series B this week, shout out to those companies, keep doing what you do. And as always, if you haven't signed up for free shit on ChadCheese, head up chadcheese.com/free. We got t-shirts by Emissary. We got beer from AdZuna and we got whiskey by Sovren.
Joel (12m 14s):
And if you haven't left us a review on your podcast platform of choice, please do so good or bad. It's our oxygen. It feeds us into what you want and what you like and helps keep us on track.
Chad (12m 27s):
Love it! And last but not least shout out to Steven and Faith Rothberg. Stephen actually was just one of the winners of Sovren's bourbon, but they're posting pics from, I believe they're in Quebec. And I spotted Steven out having dinner with Faith and he was all dolled up. He had a Chad and Cheese t-shirt on.
Joel (12m 51s):
So did she? Didn't she?
Chad (12m 52s):
She probably did.
Joel (12m 53s):
Okay. She, I think she was too. Yeah, that's a that's nice. And Quebec, I have not been, but I hear it's beautiful. I hear it's the most European city in North America and we got some birthdays, Chad, you know how we end up in the shutout? So shout out to my wife, Christine Cheeseman, who celebrated a birthday on Tuesday, my 14 year old, soon to be 15 year old, Cole Cheesman celebrates a birthday. Our buddy, Aman Brar from Canvas/Jobvite celebrates a birthday. Joey Stubbs, Joe's Stubblebind wherever in the world, he is celebrates a birthday. Bradley Clark, one of our favorite Kannucks from RecText and funky cold Dina Modaris industry veteran, all celebrate birthdays this week.
Chad (13m 39s):
Joel (13m 40s):
Shout out to all those folks and friends of the show.
Chad (13m 43s):
Little extra love goes out to Christine Cheeseman, for putting up with your ass. So yeah.
Joel (13m 49s):
No doubt. No doubt.
Chad (13m 52s):
Happy Birthday Christine! Topics! Okay. Kids it's time to clear the air real quick. We talked about job.com and we weren't sure because we got a factoring letter from one of their vendors. And generally, not always generally that sends up red flags one, one way or the other. So we, you know, we were thinking that the job.com might be having some issues. Well, apparently they were factoring in using that focus on acquisition. So future revenues against acquiring new companies, because they just acquired staffing firms, Fortis Healthcare Resources, and Endevis.
Chad (14m 39s):
So I reached out to Aaron when we're talking about the factoring and he said, no, we're going through acquisition. And I said, okay, when, when you go through acquisition and you get it, let me know. And we'll, we'll make sure that we'll put it out there, but he said, yeah, we factor our books, it's normal stuff. Just self-funding our acquisitions as much as possible. So overall, great move. I'm still not a hundred percent in on the go to market strategy that job.com has, but it doesn't matter they're buying shit.
Joel (15m 10s):
Well, it's good to know that when we're wrong, that it's nice people that were wrong about. It's good to know that the payday loan that we speculated was not the case. So Aaron, you guys keep trucking along and acquisitions have always been their strategy. So yeah, pull out the, pull out the checkbook and start buying some companies. So we'll continue to report on job.com. However, the bigger news to start off the week with is our friends at iCIMS finally did it. They've filed to raise $100 million in an IPO. Listeners know the company that provides talent management software to enterprise level companies, i.e.
Joel (15m 52s):
ones that pay over a hundred grand plus a year for the service TLNT, which will be the ticker symbol has grown through the pandemic, but has significant debt and some concerning metrics according to an analyst as of June 30th of 2021, iCIMS had 43 million in cash and 770 million in total liabilities, yikes. A free cash flow during the 12 months ended June 30th, 2021 was $7 million. They're seeking cash to pay down a lot of debt, which is sizable as a likely result of its private equity firm ownership. The primary risk to the company's outlook, according to one analyst is the ability for larger companies i.e.
Joel (16m 37s):
LinkedIn to bundle such software into their other offerings or Microsoft, thereby putting downward pricing pressure and potentially boxing iCIMS out in the process. So Chad, are you going to load up on some T L N T?
Chad (16m 53s):
I probably won't. I'll probably be loading up on Airbnb. We saw this happening. It just makes good business sense. And I mean, that's why they brought Steve in, right?That's why we're there doing these acquisitions. So yeah, I mean, overall, you know, it's something we knew was going to happen. I was surprised it didn't happen sooner to be quite Frank.
Joel (17m 14s):
Yeah. Yeah. So the dominoes are falling pretty consistently as we sort of predicted. So ZipRecruiter was the first domino. We talked pretty at length about Doximity last week, basically network specifically to physicians. And iCIMS I think we kind of believe would be the first ATS to go IPO in light of those and let the dominoes keep falling unless iCIMS really falls on its face. I mean, I think both of us expect, you know, the Jobvites, the Smart Recruiters, the Namely's of the world to eventually go IPO as well. I mean, my concern as an investor would be just, obviously the debt, which has probably specific to iCIMs, but ATS is, you know, they grow kind of slowly, they're kind of these big Titanic type companies.
Joel (18m 10s):
So one of the challenges that the analyst mentioned in an article was that, you know, the high growth that you would expect in a SAAS business, they're just a little bit short of that. So to me, it's like, you know, money to pay down debt is great, but I think they got to start making some, some big acquisitions. And iCIMS, hasn't been shy from making big moves, like the ones they did with, you know, Techs Recruiter or opening.io. But if they're going to grow, you know, to me, these ATS is really have to make moves and acquisitions, which I think is what we're seeing because they grow so slow because, well, they're so expensive. And the enterprise level companies are kind of few and far between, so they tend to say.
Chad (18m 54s):
I think you're going to have to, for them to be able to be more global and much, you know, on the enterprise side of the house, they're going to have to do more acquisitions like they did with Easy Recru. It's gotta be something that is a foreign. It just makes sense because it's already just add water from a technology language and portfolio standpoint. So, you know, I think it's smart for them to grow through acquisition. But one thing you have to remember is, you know, as you look at portfolios or at least I look at mine, you've got to have some stability in there, right? You can't always have these high growth, high risks types of stocks.
Chad (19m 35s):
And I wouldn't see iCIMS as that type of company. I just wouldn't and that's, and that's not a bad thing.
Joel (19m 40s):
Yeah. I mean, they may just be a, you know, grow a few percent a year, pay out a dividend to investors, and it's just sort of a nice safe stock. I also think, and we talked about this or touched on it with, with sort of the, the Vonq stuff with better monetizing. I think it was Smart Recruiters or Greenhouse that they partnered with. So that, I mean, most of these ATSs are not profiting from their marketplaces. And at some point that's going to be an issue for these public companies. So I wouldn't be surprised to see iCIMs either starting to take a share of profits from companies in our marketplace or requiring, you know, more fees to play in the marketplace.
Joel (20m 20s):
So that'll be interesting. And something to watch.
Chad (20m 22s):
If you're In the marketplace yourself, I don't think it should be on iCIMS to bring you an idea. That's a revenue share opportunity. It should be your job to bring them the go-to business, you know, opportunity. Because again, the thing that you're looking for as a smaller organization, is you're looking for distribution into a much larger portfolio of clients. So overall, we're talking about Vonq. What Vonq is doing incredibly smart is they have a huge total addressable market from recruitment marketing, right? And they know that let's say for instance, an applicant tracking system usually is not going to get any of that revenue whatsoever.
Chad (21m 7s):
So what they do is they start the opportunity of channeling revenues into iCIMS, through tapping into recruitment marketing, to all of iCIMS clients, right? And again, this is something, this is something that they could do. They're not, I don't believe they're currently doing, especially with Vonq, but I know that organizations like that need to be looking at how do you leverage and or white label what you do to be able to first and foremost, not have to create a huge sales operation, but use your partners to be able to juice your revenues.
Joel (21m 45s):
As long as they don't take a cue from WeWork and start buying wave companies. I think though, I think they'll be okay. Well, speaking of growth companies, don't call it a chat bot, Chad conversational AI solution. Paradox said it will require the mobile first assessment platform, Tradify who, by the way, is home of one of our Pappy's winners from last year.
Chad (22m 6s):
Joel (22m 6s):
Shout out to her Tradify delivers visual based assessments that can be completed in less than two minutes terms were not disclosed. Tradify is already integrated into Paradox and Paradox CEO Aaron Maita said the deal was spurred by customer demand. This one seems to make a little too much sense to me, Chad, what say you?
Chad (22m 30s):
So Whisper numbers, 40 million. Look at the market. Where's the biggest opportunity for vendors? Biggest, quick hit opportunity for vendors right now it's high volume. And to be able to shift to more of an hourly type of model, you start to encompass the opportunity to work with humongous organizations. I don't know, like McDonald's who they already work with, in bigger, you know, restaurant corporations and anything that's high turnover. It just makes a hell of a lot of sense. Now there's a lot of transaction that goes on here. That's fine.
Joel (23m 5s):
But if you're doing large bulk of transaction and you're doing it in a SAAS model, I mean, you can charge a hell of a lot of dollars for enterprise. So the signal to anyone in the hourly hiring space is you're going to get pushed out unless you get your shit together. Because Adam Godson, who's the chief product officer and former CLO talent wizard and tech God, I guess over there, he's done this for years. He's actually pulled together platforms with duct tape and baling wire from a bunch of different vendors that he had to work right now.
Joel (23m 46s):
He is in charge of that product. So it's not about duct tape and baling wire. It's what he can focus on and build. So what he did before was amazing, outstanding, and better than anybody else did in the market for the most part. And that's back in 2016, '17, and '18. What he can do with Paradox on the high volume side of the house, I think is amazing. The big question here is can they stay focused on high volume? Because yes, they have money and they're getting, you know, some, some, some very good traction, but can they stay focused on high volume? Because if they take their eye off the ball, they could really fuck this up.
Joel (24m 28s):
Yeah. I just love it when you give Adam a nice tongue bath. That was nice.
Chad (24m 32s):
Love that guy.
Joel (24m 33s):
A couple of things that stood out to me first, I thought was when I look at Tradify as product, I think about Instagram. Like, I feel like these guys have really figured that like the visual and mobile thing out and also the sort of quick assessment test or the pre-screen. And I always think about like Jobber Monster bot.
Chad (24m 56s):
Joel (24m 56s):
Many moons ago, who was going to be the Instagram for job search, which they never really were. So I think Tradify has sort of nailed that component. And my first thought was, when we see so many acquisitions in this space, that sort of, kind of maybe don't make that much sense. I mean, they kind of do, but not really. We think like, well, it must've been on the clearance rack, so they picked it up. This one to me, made like perfect sense because this sort of like quick visual mobile first, you know, pre-screening thing, assessment test should be something that a Paradox should have in their arsenal. So that made perfect sense versus, you know, building it. 40 million is a pretty big price tag and I want to say Paradox has raised just a little bit north of that.
Joel (25m 42s):
So unless they are incredibly profitable, they've either got money in the kitty that's there and they haven't announced it yet, or they will be soon, but that's a chunk of money. Melissa was all shares or we'll pay over the next 50 years or something. So that kind of struck me as interesting as well. I think Paradox continues to be the last man standing, the apex predator in this conversational AI technology. And I keep thinking about, you know, how we we've speculated, you know, the Seekouts of the world, these guys being, you know, a platform similar to an ATS and being like the new ATSs, and I think this is one more step toward being that platform.
Joel (26m 25s):
And it's incredibly interesting and they also add some really smart people to the Paradox team that's gonna pay, you know, tons of dividends to the product. So I have nothing bad to say about this and I think it forebodes very well for them. And it's something to really keep, keep eye out on in the future.
Chad (26m 44s):
This will be, well, this is a shot across Alexander Mann solutions bow with their product Hourly because Tradify is integrated with Hourly. So what happened here is a company, Paradox is taking a piece of tech off the chess board, right? I don't think they're going to pull Tradify from Hourly. Although if you think about it, if one of your competitors is paying you to utilize your now new service, right. What does that do other than continue to bolster you? This is like back in the day when Monster was paying Indeed for traffic, right? So it's incredibly smart. And this isn't the first time that we're going to be talking about it, to watch an organization like Paradox, pull a player off the board.
Chad (27m 32s):
And if you think about it once again, talking about from an applicant tracking system, I really it's, I think it's more evolved than that. If I can actually engage a candidate, I can take them through the steps, through, you know, chat, messenger, whatever it is, and get you into an interview or even interviewed in under 10 minutes. Fuck man. That's that is the game changer.
Joel (27m 57s):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, we probably don't talk much about our, talk enough about the, the high school level dynamics that come into play in our industry. But I can tell you Hourly is going to hate putting money in Paradoxes pocket by having Tradify beyond their platform. So it'll be interesting to see what happens and, and in contrast, I'm sure Paradox, enjoys profiting from Hourly as well. So it is a lot like high school and our industry. Sometimes we don't talk much about that, but it's a thing.
Chad (28m 28s):
It's a kick in the ass and that's good for the entire industry.
Joel (28m 32s):
Sure, sure. And by the way, Zaur who we don't talk about much, seems to be fading quickly from the scene. And they've lost a few executives.
Chad (28m 42s):
Aida where yet what's going on out there?
Joel (28m 45s):
Aida hit us up. Well, let's go to two companies I've never heard of, but there was another acquisition in this point, maybe you have, I don't know. idibu HR software company Compono has announced the acquisition of candidate sourcing platform idibu for an undisclosed amount, the acquisition we'll see idibu candidate sourcing pipeline and insight technology integrated into the Compono HR tech platform, specifically the idibu platform is used to cross post positions to major job boards and integrate into CRM systems, saving clients, time and money as part of the acquisition, the idibu brand and all its staff will continue to operate as usual founded in 2007, idibu has over 300 clients and two offices in the UK and Spain.
Joel (29m 39s):
The acquisition of idibu by Compono enable the company to expand its current products into Europe while broadening, broadening idibu reach into Asia. According to Crunchbase, idibu was founded in 2007 and raised no VC capital LinkedIn says, says they employ about 17 people. Any thoughts on this one? Chad?
Chad (30m 2s):
Yeah. 2007 and 300 clients. That to me is a warning signal. Yeah. That's a warning signal. I mean, it's right. Yeah. I've heard idibu before, but it's very sparse. They are, I guess you could say a very small, broad bean. So it's, it's just job posting distribution, I think, to be quite Frank, you know, because they didn't take any cash. Maybe they got a good payout, but overall you have to make the decision to go after big funding to be able to supercharge or go after that acquisition. Right? And get targeted to be acquired. So yeah, I think it was a smart move on both sides.
Chad (30m 46s):
Compo themselves, I don't like their go to market strategy because they are SMB and enterprise and we always see that doesn't work out. But overall, you know, adding this to their portfolio is, I don't think it's hurtful. I don't think it's going to send them over the edge either into the enterprise oblivion.
Joel (31m 7s):
No, there probably wasn't a whole lot of risk in this. And I, you know, part of me when I see these stories, you know, the old days of acquisitions and, you know, like the old strategy of growing into new markets was really challenging because it was mostly by job boards or ATSs right? But when you have technology, it's much easier to go into other markets. However, you know, from our European show, which you haven't, if you haven't tuned into that, I encourage you to do so because it's been a real education for me. And I think for you as well, but growing into new markets, there's a lot of legal issues, there's a lot of just like, you know, there's a ton of issues.
Chad (31m 46s):
Basic language, shit.
Joel (31m 47s):