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Personio Rides the Dinosaur

It's a new day in America. New president. New Vice President, who's also a minority woman! The new attitude in the New World, if you will. The sun rose and the weight has been lifted. Unfortunately for you, dear listener, this is the same craptastic podcast you've grown to love (or at least tolerate).


This week,

- Another game of Buy-or-Sell ensues for 1) Betterfly 2) Kanarys 3) HiPeople

.. and lastly, Brits think they know best when it comes to mood tracking. Hey, this isn't the '70s! Take that mood ring nonsense and put it in your fish-and-chips!

Anyway, enjoy this Sovren, JobAdx, and Jobvite powered production.


INTRO (2s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (22s):

Aw. Yeah. Vice president. Mike Pence is back home in Columbus, Indiana. You partied at his pad last night didn't you Chad?

Chad (31s):

Fuck him.

Joel (32s):

This is the Chad and Cheese podcast AKA boys who love bourbon. I'm your cohost Joel JLo Cheesman. And this is

Chad (40s):

Chad fireworks Sowash

Joel (43s):

And on this week, show job postings as Easter eggs, workers of the world unite in Alabama and this wristband says my mood is extra salty. Now past the Tabasco.

Sovren Promo (57s):

You already know that Sovren makes the world's best resume CV parser, but did you know that Sovren also makes the world's best AI matching engine? Only Sovren's AI matching engine goes beyond the buzzwords. With Sovren you control how the engine thinks with every match the Sovren engine tells you what matched and exactly how each matching document was scored. And if you don't agree with the way it's scored the matches, you can simply move some sliders to tell it, to score the matches your way. No other engine on earth gives you that combination of insight and control. With Sovren, matching isn't some frustrating "black box, trust us, it's magic, one shot deal" like all the others. No, with Sovren, matching is completely understandable, completely controllable, and actually kind of fun. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Joel (1m 57s):

Oh, it's back. Let's go... (🎵🎵 🎶 🎶 Music 🎶 🎶 ,🎵 )This is how it felt when Biden spoke, yesterday, last night, when the poet girl spoke (Amanda Gorman), this is what it felt like.

Chad (2m 9s):

Feeling, feeling the groove. When you woke up this morning was feeling the groove. The air felt crisper, the birds were singing louder with joy. And last night, did you see the, the like fully produced inauguration movie slash music video that they had last night?

Joel (2m 30s):

I did not. So you'll have to enlighten me

Chad (2m 33s):

The ability for us to be able to produce a much more enjoyable time for all Americans, not just ones who can afford to go to these inauguration balls and whatnot was pretty amazing. I mean, it had some amazing talent. It started off with Bruce Springsteen ended with Katy Perry where she sang fireworks. And I tell you, man, I've seen so many fucking fireworks in my life. It was awesome. Biden was in the White House, watching Kamala was on the steps behind Katie Perry, right in front of a Lincoln, at the Lincoln Memorial.

Chad (3m 13s):

And I mean, it was just like this experience that there was no way in hell we could have ever had. If we didn't have the scenario, play out all America got a chance to kind of dip into it and enjoy it. Where for the most part, we just don't. We don't get to we're just commoners.

Joel (3m 31s):

Yeah. It's usually a really a exclusive event and we get to see pictures and some highlights. You go to the other end of that spectrum. I think it was Andrew Jackson who just opened up the White House to everybody and it turned into a big orgy party, whiskey whiskey. So, so this is somewhere in between. We get to sort of partake, but there's no whiskey orgy in the White House that goes, so I'm guessing you were not at the Columbus airport when our illustrious former vice-president landed yesterday.

Chad (4m 1s):

No, the plane went over my house though. So I knew when I knew when that asshole was in town.

Joel (4m 6s):

The, the crowd looked bigger for him than it did for Trump as he was exiting on Air Force One yesterday, no one on CNN said that that the crowds at the Apple store are bigger than the crowd for Trump, which I thought was pretty funny. Yeah, of course. I had to watch Fox and Fox's take was like Trump landed in Florida to mass crowds and jubilation. So, you know, we live in two news universes.

Chad (4m 33s):

Just imagine if he would have pardoned the Tiger King. I mean, the crowds would have been so much larger.

Joel (4m 41s):

Are they gonna, they're gonna do a Tiger King II. When's that shit come out by the way, this is how the pandemic has progressed. We've gone from like Tiger King and we all hate ourselves and eating Cheetos all day, which is actually what I call Tuesday. But anyway, and we've sort of ended with the Queen's Gambit and more like, sort of thoughtful programming so I feel like we've had our white trash moment ending, ending with the Capitol riots.

Chad (5m 8s):

Yeah. I don't know that America is done with its white trash moment although I have to say props to Airbnb and I'm going to start off with this with a little news, but also some shout outs. I do remember you, kind sir, saying that Airbnb and now has stockholders. So the founders will start to act much differently because money rules all and Airbnb says, sit down and shut up Cheese. They shut down 3,400 plus DC listings on their platform while covering the host for their losses.

Chad (5m 48s):

Airbnb made a similar move in early co COVID pandemic days when it allowed guests to cancel without penalties. I remember we had to do that because we're getting ready to go to London. All this shit happened. We had Airbnb set up and we, we got to actually cancel without penalty. So ultimately I think this gives me faith in brands. I'm starting to get faith in government just because of yesterday and shiny videos and fireworks. I'm getting there, right? But this gives me more faith in brands, Amazon, Google, Apple, severely hampering, hate speech with their kicking Parlor to the curb.

Chad (6m 29s):

And now Airbnb lessens the likelihood of large groups to use their platforms, to travel to DC, to perspectively cause harm so it's a good day in America today, people.

Joel (6m 42s):

Yeah. We talk a lot about corporate corporate entities taking the lead on a lot of these social issues. Shall we say whether it be black lives matter. Yeah. So yeah. Hats, hats off to them now. Now Twitter's stock has taken a big shit since they've dumped Trump off the platform so we'll see if this becomes a trend that is everlasting. I may, I may end up being right about Airbnb when else all of a sudden done. You never know

Chad (7m 10s):

This moment in time, my friend. Wrong.

Joel (7m 16s):

All right, I'm going to give a quick shout out to personal fave her on the show, we interviewed him a couple of years ago, Mike Timkin.

Chad (7m 24s):

Love that guy!

Joel (7m 25s):

Recruitment Marketing.

Chad (7m 27s):

Love that guy!

Joel (7m 28s):

The dude's been around since T-Rexes we're doing recruitment marketing, and he's finally finally hanging it up. So Mike, enjoy it, man, go golfing, play chess, whatever it is, gets your, get your juices flowing. It's been a fun ride and we hope that you won't disappear. Totally. We hope that you'll still be around to give us some social media commentary, if nothing else.

Chad (7m 51s):

He is known for being an amazing mentor, he's an awesome storyteller. He has stories out the wazoo and he's just an amazing human being. So I think seeing a guy like that leave our industry really, to me, leaves a huge void and hopefully a vacuum that many of us can actually get sucked into and start to work more as mentors.

Joel (8m 15s):

Well, fortunately for me, I've, I've been bringing millennials under my wing of mentorship for many years, so it's, I'm already doing my part. Dammit,

Chad (8m 24s):

Calling them dumb asses I don't thinkis mentoring.

Joel (8m 28s):

I got some poison for them in this week. Show you just wait, I'm going to give a quick shout out to, because when you think of Mike, Timkin you think of Van Halen and you think a diamond David Lee Roth, and you think of Sammy Hagar. So, so I put out a poll, which is sort of a Chad Cheese, you know, help us with an argument thing who who's a better front man, David Lee Roth, Sammy Hagar, not surprised by the result, but we've been talking about bringing it up on the show like two or three weeks ago and we still haven't. So David Lee Roth is the, it wasn't even close, right? 73. Yeah. I mean it was Diamond Dave, when you can, when you can, when you can do the splits and saying, you know, jump, you're going to win this competition.

Chad (9m 12s):

All you have to do is look at their top 10 hits. I mean, that's, I mean, Sammy was like around, during like more mainstream Van Halen and they had some good stuff and nothing compared to when David Lee Roth was actually the front man. Yeah.

Joel (9m 26s):

I was trying to think of a band that became better after the front, the lead singer left. And the only one I could kind of think of was like ACDC. That was the only one.

Chad (9m 36s):

That's exactly what I was going to saying.

Joel (9m 42s):

Let's let's give a quick shout out our Pappy's giveaway, we've been talking about that for months. Now, we finally had winners. This is a Sovren sponsor giveaway! We gave away two bottles of Pappy's Family Reserve! We gave away a Blanton's Special Japanese Import. So I can confirm that one of the Pappy's and the Blanton's have been delivered, the other Pappy's is in route. So hopefully we'll be able to talk about that soon. The winners, again, as, as we mentioned, Matt O'Donnell, Pete Suchi, they've both gotten their liquor and Lynn Morton is the unlucky one, who's still sort of waiting out there in limbo, but big ups to them, big ups to Sovren.

Joel (10m 29s):

I'm hoping that we can keep this bourbon flowing with something after this, we'll have to put our heads together and figure out what we can do.

Chad (10m 37s):

The people have spoken they want bourbon.

Joel (10m 39s):

They want liquor. People want to be drunk.

Chad (10m 42s):

It might not be Pappy's for God's sakes, but there's still good stuff out there.

Joel (10m 45s):

It'll be brown people. It'll taste great.

Chad (10m 48s):

Yes. And we we're actually going to be enjoying some beer this week from the beer drop win, right?

Joel (10m 56s):

James Deneen. Jim Deneen, whatever his mom calls him a beer drop. We're going to sample some IPA's with him next week.

Chad (11m 4s):


Joel (11m 5s):

We're going to bring, I think Mark Anderson from AdZuna. We may throw our buddy Doug Monroe an invite who knows he might want to want to join it. It's a little late in English time, by the time we do that. But we'll see. We'll see. It's always fun.

Chad (11m 18s):

Perfect, perfect time. And we still have plenty of beer to give away kids. So if you haven't registered, I don't know what you've been doing, but you should go to or go to click on the free up top because we are still giving away free t-shirts and you'll also be included in the registration for the AdZuna beerdrop contact-free beer on your front porch, it's a good time.

Joel (11m 49s):

You can't miss you. Can't miss. Let's get to topics!

Chad (11m 54s):

Topics, money kids we're talking about Personio. So who, who? I I've never seen it.

Joel (12m 2s):

You say Personia I say per I say Personio, who?

Chad (12m 5s):

It is Per-son-i-o. Okay. Who's purse whose persona

Joel (12m 11s):

They're a German startup. Yes. German startup target, small and medium sized business. The best way to think of them as sort of Workday for the small guy, these guys just got $125 million bringing them to a $1.7 billion valuation.

Chad (12m 30s):


Joel (12m 31s):

Holy shit. Holy shit. Thoughts.

Chad (12m 33s):

Yeah. Here in the U S we have bamboo HR. Namely, those are more on the, I think the SMB side or the S M E if we're talking to Europe. Yeah. So the valuation is super crazy. 1.7 billion, their revenues doubled last year, they weren't even looking for a raise. I mean, pretty much they have investors coming to them and say, Hey, you want a little bit of this, $125 million crack here. So their valuation .

Joel (13m 2s):

Alright twist my arm.

Chad (13m 3s):

Their valuation last year where they received $75 million in January of 2020, their valuation was 500 million. They receive 125 this year, a year later, still had cash in the bank, by the way, revenues doubled $1.7 billion. Total funding is 250 million. And they were founded in 2015 as per Crunchbase.

Joel (13m 28s):

Still a baby.

Chad (13m 30s):

Man. I mean, that's fast! Jesus! And we've talked about this before. This goes beyond just the recruiting talent acquisition side of the house. This goes into HR. This goes much further. So I think the pandemic not only pushed enterprise organizations to reinvest in tech for automation and build the better ability to scale, but the opportunity in the world of small to medium businesses, incredibly large, knowing that most are still using Excel spreadsheets, accompanied by a pen and paper. So the opportunity in this market is large for an overall market standpoint, but it, I mean, it's a pain in the ass, hurting all these cats.

Chad (14m 14s):

So, I mean, they are going to have their issues. I would assume if you're in Europe, they're probably doing ads, TV ads, and whatever they can to target these individuals much like we see with namely here in the US but it's, I think it's, it's a great space and this is hypergrowth. This is unicorn growth.

Joel (14m 35s):

Yeah. Yeah. You see these smaller companies, you know, they don't have the resources to like RFP, you know, the top hundred technologies out there and to give small businesses, a one place, one stop shop, these guys are covering recruiting, onboarding, payroll, absence tracking, and other major HR functions. So for a small company that doesn't have the resources, doesn't have the time, it doesn't have the money for them to go to one place and feel like they're getting, you know, a pretty good solution for their problems. Like, yeah, it's, it's a home run. And, and these guys obviously have the cash now to try to take this message and product to the rest of the world.

Joel (15m 16s):

It will be interesting to watch.

Chad (15m 18s):

And we've talked about small business before, because I mean, remember if you're going from an Excel spreadsheets and pen and paper to something like this. Yeah. This is the crack. You're not going to want to get off this. This is where loyalty just skyrockets. So the big point here, is how are they going to go through client acquisition? That'll be the most interesting, I think, right out of the gate, because it's easier to build for smaller, medium size businesses when again, you know, they're using pen and paper.

Joel (15m 49s):

Yeah. And let's, let's be real. Like it's hard to be super profitable. Maybe these guys have cracked the code, but small businesses are a bitch to sell to.

Chad (15m 57s):


Joel (15m 58s):

It's much easier to land a whale and then milk that whale and try to get a few more, you know, in a year's time than it is to like, you know, get a bunch of guppies that make you rich or profitable. I mean, small businesses typically don't understand tech, like you said, spreadsheets, and they're still posting on the equivalent of Craigslist or ZipRecruiter. So to get out of that box into like an all encompassing technology is going to be a stretch for a lot of companies. I mean, 3000 customers is good on them. That's a hell of a job being a five-year-old company. And again, maybe they've, they've figured it out, but typically selling to SMBs have been the death now for a lot of companies.

Joel (16m 38s):

So good on them.

Chad (16m 39s):

It seems as if there is a shit ton of cash in the market.

Joel (16m 44s):

Shit ton.

Chad (16m 45s):

That's what George Little Rock says. What does George say?

Joel (16m 49s):

Yep. So, so George is talking about a work tech X estimate that came out this week. So the entire market for HR tech is now at $380 billion. I said, billion with a B in case you missed that. So this is all categories of potential market, as well as serviceable market, that these companies are looking to grow into a total of $5 billion was invested in global HR technology firms in 2020. You, US leads the way in terms of money, that's been invested, followed by the UK, Germany, France, Australia, Spain, and Ireland.

Joel (17m 30s):

I'd like to know where China is? I don't know, apparently that's not being calculated cause I know there's a lot of money going into Chinese firms. And I mean, come on Canada, let's get in the top five, come on. Let's where's, where's our Canadians at.

Chad (17m 44s):

So this data very high level and love this data, but this is perfect for investors, for boards and for strategic planning, because you're talking about the total addressable market, the serviceable market. And then you can start to dig down into the actual serviceable obtainable market. So, I mean, these are great numbers that George is actually flushing out there. Who is this really relevant to? This is relevant to the more, the upper strategic crust. When you're starting to look at markets and perspectively, expand in the markets, as well as a startup. And you want to create a narrative around that.

Chad (18m 24s):

This is the kind of data you start off with, right? So that's, that's good stuff, good stuff from George.

Joel (18m 29s):

I may be wrong and I'm sort of anecdotally.

Chad (18m 32s):

I might be drinking.

Joel (18m 33s):

But I wouldn't want to say, like the last time I saw something around a full number, like this was roughly eight to 10 years ago and I want to say it was at like a hundred billion. So in a fairly short period from the last numbers I've seen, you know, 4x from 10 years ago, a lot of money is going into this. And I assume it will continue as we automate more and more and provide tech and unplug these solutions into our hiring system. So,

Chad (19m 0s):

And as we start to get SMEs involved as well, that's where you have a full market. That's where the total addressable market just exploded.

Joel (19m 10s):

Damn it feels good to be a gangster. Well, Chad, we played buy or sell, last week and people loved it. So we said, let's, let's keep doing it. So we got three, we got three startups, that all got money this week. I'll run through them and we'll, we'll play a little buy or sell. Sound good?

Chad (19m 29s):


Joel (19m 30s):

All right, let's do this. (Ding, ding, ding) So Betterfly. I hope I'm saying that. Right. And it's not Better flee. I'm sure it's Betterfly, so they raised $17.5 million. They are a Chilean startup. We don't get a lot of South American players so that's nice. They offer a wellness benefits platform that rewards people's good habits with social giving and life insurance that grows at no cost. I say millennials rejoice, but life insurance is for old people. So I'm a little confused about the social giving piece that appeals to younger people.

Joel (20m 10s):

But then I don't think any of them give a shit about life insurance. So I'm going to go ahead and leap frog, leap, frog you, and say, I'm going to sell Betterfly.

Chad (20m 19s):

Hm. And the interesting thing about that is you did not even mention the domain, which I thought you were going to take about five minutes to pounce on Yes. Yeah. So from my standpoint, I mean, when you take a look at integration with activity apps like Peloton, Adidas, Under Armor, Samsung, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? This is an everybody type of a thing. And I think that yes, millennials are into this, but I mean, who's, who's buying all the Pelotons right now? Are the older people who are stuck at home. Right. And they want to be able to actually integrate and be a part of the quote unquote "community."

Chad (21m 5s):

To me, this is something that is hot right now, especially with the pandemic. So for me, this is a buy.

Joel (21m 12s):

Yeah. Okay. Do you know, you know, the app Acorns, I assume, you know, you buy and then they put the pennies in an investment account and you feel good. Like, so to me, this sort of is on that trend of you don't even have to pay attention and we'll give to causes that you love, and we'll put money into a life insurance policy that you'll be able to take advantage of at some point down the line.

Chad (21m 32s):

Or what other prizes are, I mean, it's just, it's, it's like all of this stuff is like, here's a store of the things that you can do. So, yeah, I think, again, I think a lot of this is going to revolve around the interconnectivity and all of the buying of the home gyms that we've seen just in the last year that I believe will continue.

Joel (21m 51s):

Yeah. Yeah. It's also hard to get a gauge on these guys because their site is in Spanish. I assume that's what they speak in Chile.

Chad (21m 58s):

All the way to the bottom. There's a little tab that says English. Yeah.

Joel (22m 3s):

Or they could just automatically give you the English version. If you come in from Indiana.

Chad (22m 8s):

You would think, you would think.

Joel (22m 10s):

Start up number two canaries. Hopefully I'm saying that, right. It's K A N A R Y S. So these guys got 3 million in seed funding for its platform focused on, well, we've heard this trend before diversity, equity and inclusion. They look to leverage job and company search, employee reviews, demographics, statistics, and DNI news to help candidates navigate the job market with an eye on DNI and employees better understand how they're really doing. So taking the hood off, the veil off, of companies in regards to DNI, I assume you are a hot buyer of this startup.

Chad (22m 52s):

A couple of things here. If you go to the site, the site is sexy. I mean, it, it really is. And then you dig into it. It has two co-founders and they're both Harvard law and they're both women of color as well. They're both black females. So they're taking pretty much their experience into really trying to help others with this platform. It's interesting. I think because it has, you can write reviews on company profile, search jobs, plus I believe there's also a community aspect to it. So this almost feels like kind of like a "fairy God boss"w type of platform.

Chad (23m 34s):

And there's no question with DEI. If they have all the data that they say that they do, and they can help from an outcome standpoint, this is a buy every single day. And just as a side note, I've already reached out to the CEO and we're planning an interview.

Joel (23m 52s):

Ooo. Nice tease. You, you dirty boy. So, so yeah, Fairygodboss was exactly what I thought about when I, when I heard about these guys and, and the verdict is still out. The jury is still out on "fairy God boss," they've been around a while. Haven't gotten gobbled up yet. The review, the review universe is sort of engulfed by Glassdoor and Indeed. So that's a really tough market to tap into and cut through that clutter. However, I do think that, you know, if timing is everything, this is a pretty well timed business. And it's going to be ripe in a few years, if not months for someone like a Glassdoor to come in and, and add this review piece, this DNI piece to their business.

Joel (24m 35s):

So yeah, I'd say by, in terms of an acquisition target in the future, I would go ahead and buy that I would buy that. So our last and final startup, Hi People.

Chad (24m 46s):

Hi People.

Joel (24m 47s):

Hi People, not H I G H a, which a lot of people may have mistaken this for its HI people. This is a Berlin startup. So the Germans are very well represented here today. So this startup has raised 3 million in seed funding to automate the reference checking process. This follows a 1.1 million pre-seed round that occurred in 2019. I will note that our buddy, Tim Sackett posted an article this week about how he hates manual reference checks. Where do you fall on this one?

Chad (25m 25s):

This is a sell if I've ever seen one, it seems like it's just so narrowly scoped number one. And then on the site, it actually says, quote, we make it easy to understand and analyze reference data by automatically detecting and flagging outliers within a group. What that says right out of the gate is bias, bias, bias. So yeah, overall, it's incredibly narrowly scoped and it just doesn't do it for me. Yeah.

Joel (25m 56s):

Yeah. I'm going to sell this Turkey too. Yeah. Reference checks seems even if it's automated seems really antiquated. All the reasons that you said, you said before there, I agree with, so let's say we've got a Betterfly. Was a sell for me. Was that a buy for you?

Chad (26m 14s):

Buy for me?

Joel (26m 15s):

We both like Kanaries and we're both selling Hi People. I love it. And that's an episode of buy or sell. Let's get a quick break. And jeez, we'll talk about remote workers and labor unions.

Jobvite PROMO (26m 29s):

Jobvite the leading end to end talent acquisition suite. Named a leader in ATS, recruitment, marketing, CRM, and onboarding on G2. Kim B says "Jobvite is a user friendly passionate enterprise team that takes care of you. Jolly good." Jeffrey R says, "candidates are constantly telling us we get it right compared to other orgs." Love that! Results driven by AI. Connections built by humans. Jobvite, learn how you can evolve your TA function at

Joel (26m 60s):

(music) Oh, damn it. Won't go away.

Chad (27m 5s):

Oh! I don't want it to go away.

Joel (27m 7s):

Have you seen to do a Geico commercial with Tag Team?

Chad (27m 13s):

Yeah. That is scoop where it is Scoop. That is awesome. Yeah.

Joel (27m 22s):

And do you note at the end, when the guy he does like the LeBron he's like...

Chad (27m 26s):


Joel (27m 28s):

Yeah. That's, that's fucking good stuff.

Chad (27m 31s):

This is another ode to the White House. This is a recruiting trick from the White House. This is smart. And it's easy for, from a recruiting standpoint. So today, if you go to and then you look at the source code, you'll find this message. Quote, if you're reading this, we need your help in building back better. that kids. Is that simple?

Joel (28m 2s):

Yeah, that was, that was pretty sneaky and pretty cool. I'd love to know how many people they actually attract through that, although I'm sure the people they do think it's pretty cool and are pretty good candidates for jobs. Now, what I would love to see as well as some sort of tracking mechanism, it's just the URL. So if you type it in or copy and paste it, I don't know if there's any way of knowing aside from asking them, although I'm sure they say, yeah, I saw it in the code. Ha ha ha. Very funny. But yeah, some tracking would be nice, but yeah, it's very clever, very clever White House who knew?

Chad (28m 33s):

Very clever. So, so we got, we got the final four in the NFL. I got to ask you, you got some of the picks wrong last week, as well did I? So we're down to the final four and I know no one outside of the US gives a shit, but so we've got, we've got Julie's Packers playing my wife's, Tom Brady's.

Joel (28m 53s):

Yeah. And then we've got the Bills taken on the Chiefs with hopefully Pat in Mahomes. It'll not be a fair fight otherwise, who you got to go to the super bowl?

Chad (29m 3s):

Unfortunately, I just think from the Packer standpoint, I don't know that they have the defense to stop anything. So, I mean, I don't want to pick Brady, but I just, again, I think the Bucks are going to win just like I thought they would last week, but I went over that with my, my, my pick for Brees because I like Brees a lot more and obviously I'll be rooting for the Packers and then the Bills, I think the Bills overall, even if Mahomes is in, I just, it just feels like they have the momentum and it's just fun to watch. I mean, it would be fun to watch both of them to be quite Frank, but very incredibly skilled quarterbacks and teams.

Chad (29m 44s):


Joel (29m 45s):

I'm going to go to the exact opposite. I think the Packers are the best team in the league right now. It that's at, and it's at Green Bay where they are incredibly successful in the playoffs. Brady may pull a rabbit out of his hat. He's got immense weapons, obviously on the offensive side, but I'm going to go Green Bay. And I think if Mahomes is healthy, they can just score it. Well, they're just fucking unbelievable. And I know that from last week and also thing that the bills, particularly Josh Allen, not quite ready for prime time, I think they'll have their day in the sun, but I don't think it is 2021. So I'm going to go Packers/Chiefs in the Superbowl and just thank God we have a fucking super bowl.

Joel (30m 26s):

That's what I'm talking about. And speaking of Superbowls, I bet you saw a big W in terms of our debate of paying people less or more, if they work out of market. When you saw this story, employers could save $11,000 per remote worker. I bet you got pretty excited when he saw that.

Chad (30m 45s):

I think you're setting me up is what I think.

Joel (30m 47s):

I am. I'm leading the witness.

Chad (30m 49s):

Yeah, this is, this is the one that actually comes article from US businesses compatible with work remote could save almost $11,000 per employee each year if workers telecommute an average of two and a half days a week, that's coming from a new study. So yeah, I think overall that's great for the employor. What's great for the employee, just actually, there was another survey that was on, 81% of employees today enjoy working remote. 65 state work, remote helps their work-life balance.

Chad (31m 30s):

And then 60% feel like they're more productive working from home. So there is a great balance here, but I really think companies will fuck it up because they'll start playing the Facebook rule and paying employees less. And it's capitalism. Don't give two shits about our people and we care more about the bottom line. And I hope that's not the case for the most part. I know it will be for some companies, but for the most part, I hope that's not the case.

Joel (32m 2s):

Well, Chad, sometimes in the market, everybody wins. So, so part of that story, as well as they researched how much employees will get more per year based on lower costs for transportation, lower cost to meals, by having to buy less work clothes. And they estimated that at $3000 per year, yes, that's not $11,000. And by the way, the $11,000 is based on two and a half days. If you go full work from home, we're talking 22,000 a year per per employee. If my math is correct. So businesses win, workers kind of win because I have to buy, I can buy more sweats than, than Dockers and the market wins.

Joel (32m 43s):

So I was hoping you were going to go for a win-win-win scenario, but you say, no, the workers get screwed again.

Chad (32m 49s):

I mean, if you take a look at history over the last 40, close to 50 years, you know, wages haven't grown and employers have been looking for ways to engineer lower wages so that their profits grow. That's what we've seen. I mean, that's what studies show. So this is another way and again, I go back to Facebook as kind of like the unfortunate, unfortunate benchmark is that companies are just going to look for another way to engineer an opportunity to boost profits and fuck their employees.

Joel (33m 22s):

Yeah. And the big one being real estate, which the article kind of goes down to the bottom, which we're not even talking about because they're talking about halftime at the office. But the study estimated that employers could save 25% or basically averaging out to almost $2,000 annual savings per half time, remote worker. So if we throw in the real estate into this equation, companies are saving big time. So the headline was $11,000 per remote worker. When it should have been more like $58,000 per remote worker cause that kind of what it looks like it might come out to. By the way, this was, this was the, the San Diego based Global Workplace Analytics Organization, like who wouldn't want to live in San Diego and just think about Global Workplace Analytics?

Joel (34m 14s):

Doesn't that sound like a fun gig. Doesn't that sound fun?

Chad (34m 17s):

Yeah. Just as long as I can work remote. Yeah.

Joel (34m 21s):

Just as long as it's on the beach or mountains today, I'm not sure which I'm going to pick. Right?

Chad (34m 25s):

Yeah. I'm not sure. I know that a, you're not going to get much of a beach. They, Alabama does have some beaches, but not where Amazon is.

Joel (34m 35s):

How much do you miss San Diego? How much do you miss traveling? By the way?

Chad (34m 38s):

Yes. Let's just go with that right now.

Joel (34m 41s):

So my sister's getting married in Key West in February, so I'm going to actually travel to Key West in February. So I'd say pray for me. Pray for me, pray for my liver and pray for my healthy return.

Chad (34m 54s):

That's irresponsible. Yeah.

Joel (34m 57s):

Totally. So workers of the world unite in Alabama, you're going to love this story. So we talked about the avocado toast eating millennials were unionizing in Silicon Valley. And we had a fun conversation over that. So this is the kind of Workers of the World unite that I'm talking about 6,000 Amazon warehouse workers will hold a union vote in Alabama on February 8th and cast their ballots via mail on whether to join the wholesale and department store union. I'm assuming that's a federal or a national organization. The decision means Amazon will face its first union vote in the US since 2014.

Joel (35m 42s):

Not shockingly, Amazon pushed for the vote to be held in person. I don't know why they would want to do that. I don't know why they thought voting in person might be a little bit stressful for people?

Chad (35m 53s):

Does that sound like voter suppression to you?

Joel (35m 55s):

Or a little bit of intimidation, maybe? So they got it to be held via mail. The strategy that Amazon is taking to, to get them to not vote for union is mostly monetary. No shocking. They're they've sent out messages to workers, as well as I believe a website or webpage talking about how, why join a union when we being Amazon have got you covered with high wages, healthcare, vision, and dental benefits, as well as a safety committee and appeals process. So they're hoping to nip this thing in the bud. Is it going to work?

Chad (36m 33s):

Yeah, they actually, I have a website called, called doitwithout and the entire thing, the entire thing just says, well, why pay $500 for this, this, this, this, and this? And it's like, okay, Amazon, why are you working so hard for me not to be a part of a union? For me to hear Amazon say high wages for essential workers, right? So we're talking about, well, we pay them $15 to let's say $20. Okay. So $15, $15 an hour, 40 hours a week for a year is $30,000 before taxes, kids. Okay. That's not a lot of money. That's not high wages.

Joel (37m 15s):

Yeah. I couldn't help. But think about like Jimmy Hoffa era, if they had websites and it would be like, keep your on how to vote. Anyway, February 8th and I think the results come back in March. So this is something that we will definitely be watching.

Chad (37m 35s):

Yeah. I think what we need to do though, is we're going to have to take a stand federally because bayzos can start playing the same game he did with looking to award States with the new Amazon hubs. I mean, he can threaten Alabama to move to Arkansas because he doesn't want his employees to enjoy essential wages, essential benefits. And actually, yeah. Having unions to ensure protections, you know, to ensure that we've got great places to work and we're getting good wages and benefits. I mean, this is the problem with capitalism.

Joel (38m 11s):


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Joel (39m 24s):

Oh, here we go. Well, you know who else is trying real hard, Chad?

Chad (39m 34s):

Who's that?

Joel (39m 36s):


Chad (39m 37s):

Oh Jesus.

Joel (39m 38s):

Oh, we got to have a show talking about Indeed.

Chad (39m 40s):

Oh my God, come on.

Joel (39m 42s):

So we, we reported a while ago about a Talent, Inc. Our buddy Jeff Berger selling the company for a hundred million, was it? It was a lot of money anyway. Resume Rabbit and Resumes App and everything. So, so Indeed his launched Resume Help: get help with your resume professional feedback on how to improve your resume for $19. You can also get a report for free, which I assume they're automating. So I don't know, a little shout out to Indeed, doing a little diversification of their business, hoping to make a little more money off the backs of job seekers.

Chad (40m 19s):

Yeah. I'm wondering, I'm wondering if this is something they built themselves or it's gotta be through like some type of partner network, but overall, I mean, this, I think, I think this is just another one of those not focusing on it being Indeed. Like, I mean, it's just, it's not, they could push them off to, you know, different organizations or what have you that do this. Like we're talking about Talent Inc, but you know, they are just not focused. They're not disciplined like we've known from Indeed's day past.

Joel (40m 55s):

Yep. I mean, someone, someone in an executive meeting said, where can we skim a few bucks off of our job seekers? And someone said, resume writing help. Okay. Who does that? Okay. Let's partner. Although it does look a little bit like, you know, they're, they have a blog they're providing articles. And so, you know, there's a little bit of focus on this, but yeah, it looks, it looks like a little bit unfocused for Indeed like stick with the tech folks. Yeah.

Chad (41m 21s):

Allow the experts to do the shit that they do. And just step the fuck out of the way.

Joel (41m 28s):

Small beans, small beans. Well, Chad, my moon beam bracelet says I'm pissed off. Tell us about the Mood Beam wristband.

Chad (41m 39s):

So Mood Beam is a wearable technology in isn't here to monitor your physical health. Instead it allows your employer to track your emotional state. The gadget, which links to a mobile phone app and web interface has two buttons, one yellow and one blue. The idea is that you press the yellow one if you're feeling happy and the blue one, when you're feeling sad. What is this?

Joel (42m 9s):

Yes. This kind of shit has been around for a long time. You've probably been in a restroom in an airport, or it says like, give me the smiley, moderate or frowny face about your experience in the bathroom. As if people want to like relay their experience in the bathroom. So companies are doing this where like, as you leave the office, you punch, you know, smiley face, frowny face, or you're just sort of in the middle. This is a manually like it's your choice to during the day provide insight into whether you're happy or you're sad. It's a company out of England, I think. And I don't know why I get that blue is your sad.

Joel (42m 49s):

I'm not sure why yellow is happy. Maybe someone in England can explain that to me. I was thinking like green and red, maybe like green, I'm good. Red, I'm not so happy. Or I don't know the color seem a little bit stranger. Just give me a happy or frowny face. I assume this is this isn't anonymous. And even if it is no, one's going to feel like it is because you're hooked up to an app and the internet. So people are gonna answer strangely. They're not going to answer honestly. And I feel like, yeah, or at all, or like, fuck you. I'm not gonna tell you how I feel during the day. Or am I, is it cause I'm happy personally or I'm happy professionally or just in general. And, and I get the idea like people are at home, there's all these issues around depression and loneliness and blah, blah, blah.

Joel (43m 32s):

And, and people are focusing on this more and more. But to me, it's like, don't, if it's a manual process, it's just not going to work. It has to be either. It's a like they actually have a ring that, that, you know, how your body temperature, your heart rate, you know, stuff like.

Chad (43m 47s):

Mood rings?

Joel (43m 48s):

Well, they're like mood rings, but they're like 21st century mood rings. To me, there are better ways to gauge someone's sort of health and happiness and just centerdness than asking them to wear a bracelet that looks really dorky and asking them to tell me if you're happy or sad during the day.

Chad (44m 6s):

OK, companies, this is so analog. I mean, seriously. So why wouldn't companies just give away free Apple, Samsung, or Fitbit watches with an app that provides them with a button, but also provides with biometric information. I mean, if your pulse is racing during a meeting or while making phone calls, I mean, if you're going to ask for any information whatsoever, provide a luxury experience and ask for it all.

Joel (44m 33s):

And if you really wanting to be happy through the entire day, send them some headphones, Chad another week in the book, I'll wake up. No one got... We out.

Chad (44m 49s):

We out.

OUTRO (45m 42s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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