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Recruiting Trends

Jobvite's yearly recruiter survey is always a highlight, and this year is no different. From Social media to video recruiting to job board investment to all things pandemic, this year's is no different. The boys dig into the survey with Jobvite SVP of Talent Kelly Lavin. The future is crazy, you guys!

It might be crazy, but it's powered by NEXXT. Connect with NEXXT to create efficient hiring strategies today!


INTRO (2s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (24s):

Oh yeah. It's the all Indie interview today, kids. Welcome, once again, you are listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel Cheeseman joined as always by Chad Sowash Esquire.

Chad (37s):


Joel (38s):

Chad, how are you today? We are honored to have Kelly Lavin SVP of Talent, at sponsor, Jobvite, Kelly from Indianapolis, I'm assuming how are you?

Kelly (51s):

That is correct. And I am great. I'm very excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Joel (57s):

Awesome. Excellent. Well, well we have a lot to cover, so give us kind of a bio tweet on you and tell us a little bit about the survey that we're going to be talking about today.

Kelly (1m 7s):

Sure. So a little bit about me. I am, as you said, SVP of Talent at Jobvite. I have been in the talent space for over 20 years. I have just previous to Jobvite, I was on the founding team of Canvas.

Chad (1m 25s):

That's people.

Kelly (1m 27s):

Yes. I love the applause. Thank you.

Joel (1m 30s):

A Chad and Cheese favorite.

Kelly (1m 33s):

And I actually took a career diversion during that adventure and I ran Customer Success so it was a short two year journey, and then we were acquired by Jobvite and we have been kind of running fast ever since. And then previous to that, I've just been another technology companies, media, manufacturing, all over the HR space.

Joel (1m 57s):

You've been following Aman Brar around your whole career. Let's be honest.

Kelly (2m 0s):

Yeah. I mean, it kind of feels like it. I don't, I kind of don't remember a time when I wasn't working with him.

Joel (2m 6s):

Nice, nice. Well, tell us about this survey that you guys recently did here, that I think you do every year actually.

Kelly (2m 10s):

Yep. It is something that Jobvite does every year. We surveyed a little over 800 US-based HR professionals and recruiters. And this year survey, we also added, you know, several questions just based on the changing times and all of the disruption that COVID has presented and definitely had some interesting results that I'm super excited to chat through with you all.

Chad (2m 38s):

We've seen some big flips and I mean, we always want to talk about trends. Everybody wants to know what's happening in a year like 2020, nobody knows what the hell is happening. So I think the trend section for me, the difference between 2017 to today, when you have a non COVID, obviously doing whatever we've done over the versus lock down 2020, what were some of the biggest down turns and then upturns?

Kelly (3m 6s):

Yeah, so kind of biggest, biggest downturns. We saw a decrease in growing the talent pipeline, which was very fascinating when we went from 52% to 22%, which was a huge dive down. And so that was it. That was one that was really interesting to me. The other one that was a downward trend that I thought was really fascinating, was improving time to hire. And I definitely have some, some thoughts around that one because my own team and I have been discussing that, but I think that that's going to be an interesting one to dig into, for sure.

Chad (3m 43s):

Let's dig into it. Let's dig into that real quick. We're here. Let's do it. So your perspective, I mean, you actually do this and the time to hire, obviously isn't as important at least this year, is that because we're not doing as much hiring? Is it just that simple?

Kelly (4m 0s):

You know, I think it might be a little bit more complicated than that. You know, for my own team, you know, and this kind of couples with one of the biggest upward trends and that's in diversity hiring. I think with, you know, 2020, we've had a lot of events happen that have opened our eyes and I think really helped to evolve the way that we're thinking about hiring and I think that if you, if you look at time to hire, which I've traditionally had is one of my main metrics. It is in kind of direct opposition to really trying to improve the diversity of your team. And so you kind of have to manage both for sure, but I do think that if you're going to try to reach different types of people and really broaden your outreach, that time to hire, isn't going to be the metric that's going to drive that.

Kelly (4m 52s):

What do you guys think?

Chad (4m 54s):

Love, hearing that from you? Because when we actually spoke with Douglas Adkin, who used to work with Airbnb, they said they took many months to hire their very first engineer. Who's not one of the founders and they took much longer than they should have because they had defined the right person. And what this sounds like is the same kind of line of thinking is that we have to find the right person, the right people to be able to dig into a culture that we want to create for our current employees and our future employees. Is that, is that what you're feeling?

Kelly (5m 30s):

Definitely. And I think like if you're going to try to drive behavior change, you have to look at how those metrics are going to impact the behavior, right? So if you're telling your recruiters, Hey, you got to fill this position. This is your number one metric. We got to do it fast. It's not going to help you really talk to more candidates and really get the right people in the door.

Joel (5m 53s):

So, so Kelly, there's a little bit of a, I guess, contradictory findings on the report. So we're talking about culture being one of the main reasons why time to hire, hasn't been as important. However, if I'm reading this right, in terms of cultural add as being a priority for recruiters, according to your survey, you had 83% of recruiters in 2017 said that cultural add was important, but only 27% in 2020 said that a cultural ad was important.

Chad (6m 29s):


Joel (6m 29s):

So is it culture or is it quality and the skill sets of the folks that, that were, that were interviewing and hiring? Cause to me, it sounds like if you go from 83% to 27%, I mean, I don't want to say employment brand is dead, but good. God, that's a big, that's a big decline. What do you read into tha?

Kelly (6m 49s):

Yeah. You know, so I think it really depends upon your definition of culture. Right? And I think like, I feel like there might be a little bit of a crisis of like culture going on in terms of, are we hiring people to fit into a mold or are we hiring people to be additive to a culture? And so it kind of depends upon your definition of culture. I absolutely agree with you that statistic stood out to me most definitely. And I think like the fear that I have is that people think that, you know, if you're hiring for culture fit, it doesn't need to be as important in this remote world.

Kelly (7m 31s):

And I would disagree if you're thinking about culture being kind of like a collection of values and the things that you, that you do to drive the business forward. So I think that it really depends upon how you look at culture versus how you look at quality of hire. And so I think for some organizations, culture fit has traditionally meant like hiring people that fit into a mold. And I think that's the thing that we're trying to move away from.

Joel (8m 0s):

And how much does a work from home reality come into play with culture fit? Is it less important when everyone is working from home? Is that maybe why there was such a decline in the importance of cultural add?

Kelly (8m 14s):

I fear that that's where it's going, but I think, yeah, I think it's harder remote. Like when we're remote, it's harder to figure out kind of how to instill those cultural values within the workforce and within your organization. But I still think it's important. It's just, we don't have it all figured out yet because this is such a different world that we're living in than we were a year ago.

Joel (8m 39s):


Chad (8m 39s):

Well, let's jump back to growing the talent pipeline. Now I can understand that people aren't looking to grow the talent pipeline because there are only so many jobs available and there are many more applicants coming in and flowing in. Totally get that. But my, to you is, are companies starting to understand that they really don't need to grow their talent pipeline as much because they do have a pretty deep resume database as it is. And some organizations like Jobvite have actually invested in matching technology. So instead of going out and buying the same candidates over and over and over quote/unquote, "growing the talent pipeline,"

Chad (9m 21s):

you're using what you already have and you are more you're working on what you've already invested on, which is talent in your database.

Kelly (9m 29s):

I think that that is absolutely something that traditionally we've not been great at doing in recruiting. And I do know that there has been a major emphasis on figuring out how do you leverage this current database of candidates and how do you invest in longer term relationships with your candidates, especially your silver medalist candidates. So your runner ups or, you know, the group of people that you, that you didn't end up hiring, but you ultimately really liked. You know, I, I do think that it shows that there's a little bit of a longer term focus, but I also think a lot of the data in this report shows that there's been a lot of stuff happening that is really created a lot of, kind of rethinking of everything as we're recruiting.

Kelly (10m 18s):

Right. And so I do think that all of those things that you said, I completely agree. And I think that as recruiters, if we're thinking about building our talent pipeline, we should be looking at, you know, like the pipeline we've already built first and foremost. But I do also think that we have a lot of recruiting teams that have been downsized and they're kind of getting back to basics and trying to figure out what is the most that I can do with what we have right now,

Joel (10m 45s):

I think in terms of some of the upward twin upward trends that you guys focus on. Obviously the one that we talk a lot about on the show automation and AI was, was one of the big ones.

Chad (10m 57s):

Robots baby!

Joel (10m 59s):

And I look at, you know, two of the big things that you talk about in the survey at the beginning is number one, fuckers are stressed out, like there's incredibly high levels of stress in recruiting, and you have a decline in head count of about a third, which to me feeds right into, Hey, I need some help with what I'm doing and AI fits right into that. Talk about sort of your take on, on how AI works and how people are using it. Cause you guys talk about that in the survey as well.

Kelly (11m 29s):

I think AI is an amazing supplement to help recruiters get back to doing the thing that they love to do and get away from the things that I would say that a lot of recruiters feel like are just the parts of the job that they have to do. Like sifting through resumes, like, you know, screening people to make sure that you have the right skillset, et. And I think that, you know, recruiters have to be really smart about how to integrate technology into their work. And I think just based on a lot of the recruiters that I'm talking to anecdotally, I think a lot of recruiters have been left during this crisis, you know, behind the curve a little bit.

Kelly (12m 16s):

And I think that the recruiters who have embraced technology and maybe their teams have been downsized a little bit, I think that they're going to be in a better position to recover because they've embraced that technology. I don't think that the best scenario is for it all to be technology, because I think like that the human to human connection matters so much in the recruiting experience for candidates. But I think that you do have to use technology to automate, you know, especially at the top of the funnel where you're trying to like automate screening of candidates. What about those things, like going back and forth with candidates that you're trying to schedule interviews for?

Kelly (12m 56s):

Like you absolutely should be automating that part of it. So it's like, I always, like when I was at canvas talking about how to utilize our bots and that type of thing, I would always say like, think about those things that are not super value added to making your job meaningful and think about how to put technology into that. Yeah, it sucks.

Joel (13m 17s):

So I love that you mentioned the human side of it. And one of the survey data points that really stuck out to me was that 77% of recruiters prefer to interview in person or do things face-to-face, but one half of them do video interviewing. So to me, it seems like there's a little bit of a disconnect with, I'd rather not be doing video interviewing, but I kind of have to. When we got to get out of the pandemic, are we going to get away from video recruiting? Because according to the survey, you said 40% believe that virtual interviews will be the default going forward. So how do you reconcile?

Joel (13m 58s):

Like we want to be face-to-face, but sorry, we're going to have to start doing this in video in the future.

Kelly (14m 3s):

Well, Hey, so I think like myself included, one of the coolest things to be able to do and to be able to provide for a candidate is an in-person experience to be able to walk through the office and, you know, see how people are interacting and, you know, be able to, you know, just get the feel for kind of how your business looks and feels and your culture and all of that good stuff. Ideally, I mean, that's one of the tools that you can use to help, to bring a candidate into the process and to help them to lean in a little bit. Right. So that's ideal, but the not ideal part of the face to face, let's say we get out of this pandemic and the vaccine is widely administered and we're back to in office.

Kelly (14m 54s):

I think one of the things that we've learned through this process is A, we have the capability to do it. It, in some instances can be a little bit more efficient. And most importantly, it broadens our ability to be able to build a more diverse workforce and it opens up other locations. And so if I'm thinking about finding someone with a very specific technical skillset, now my talent pool is a little bit broader. Now that I know that we have the ability and we've unfortunately had to build this muscle through no choice, but I think through necessity, we've had to build this muscle of being able to virtually recruit onboard, et cetera.

Kelly (15m 39s):

And so I think recruiters are smart to flex that muscle sometimes, that that doesn't mean that the in-office culture isn't going to be beneficial and I think a lot of especially extroverts would say that, you know, like they can't wait to get back to that. But I do think that there are benefits on both sides of it.

Chad (15m 57s):

Covid no question is for forced us out of a 1950s stamp the time clock mentality, we do have options. We can be more flexible and hopefully we understand autonomy actually means a lot more. And in more companies, I think that actually consume this kind of data and they understand that and they really embrace an opportunity to be more flexible, they're going to have an opportunity to have better talent. And that being said in the upward trends, the direct applications went up about 8%. So companies who are looking to actually focus their recruitment investment and shift that investment to direct application.

Chad (16m 41s):

So instead of using the Indeeds of the world, instead of using, you know, some of these other job sites and whatnot, and even possibly programmatic advertising, how do they do that? Do they hope that platforms like Jobvite do great job on partnering and SEO? How does that actually, how do they shift into more direct applications?

Kelly (17m 2s):

My feeling is that it comes from employment branding and building kind of direct relationships with candidates through broad social media outreach. And, you know, I think that really, really smart forward thinking organizations are thinking about recruiting, like marketers do, like, you know, just in traditional marketing. And you're, you're thinking about how do you reach applicants directly through kind of the content that you're pushing out about who you are, what you do, how you treat your employees, you know, how you interact with the world. And I think like, I mean, I started doing this, you know, years ago I would find brands that I just became fans of their employment brand.

Kelly (17m 51s):

And I think that that's becoming more and more the way that a lot of companies are actually connecting with their applicants. I think that they're finding that there are new ways to do that. And then it, you kind of start developing a relationship with them in the same way that consumers meet each other through social media, you find commonality and then you end up connecting and following each other,

Chad (18m 14s):

Having an employee who has a TikTok channel with a 1.5 million subscribers is a good thing is what you're saying? Yeah.

Kelly (18m 23s):

I'm very fascinated by this, this whole TikTok movement, honestly. Cause I, I don't have a Tikok account personally and you know,

Chad (18m 33s):

You're missing out Kelly, you're missing out.

Kelly (18m 37s):

No, I deserve the buzzer for that one.

Nexxt (18m 45s):

We'll get back to the interview in a minute. But first we have a question for Andy Katz, COO of Nexxt Andy, for clients that are sort of married to email, and a little hesitant to text messaging, what would you tell them? That text messaging is part of any integrated strategy. There's not one size fits all for anybody. Job seekers opt into different forms of communication, whether it's with Nexxt or anybody else they might want to receive email. They might want to receive SMS. They might want to receive targeted retargeting on their desktops. So it's one piece of an overall puzzle. For more information, go to Remember that's Nexxt with the double X, not the triple X

Kelly (19m 37s):

You know, I think though that recruiters who think about kind of how, how the world consumes content and meets their candidates in, you know, the way that the world is consuming content, namely TikTok, or Instagram or whatever else it might be. I think they're really smart to be doing that. And I think they're smart to be thinking about like 30 second recorded snippets over video and, you know, being able to, you know, let people, all of the world, meet their employees and see their diversity and all of that stuff. And I, I do think that even though I'm not as progressive personally on social media clearly, because I'm not cool enough to have TikTok.

Kelly (20m 23s):

I do think that it is super smart.

Chad (20m 29s):

You're definitely cool enough to have TikTok Kelly, don't put yourself down like that. That's okay, Kelly. Cause my, my line of questioning next is about My Space. So let's, let's dig into social here for a little bit. So according to the survey, 78% of your respondents said that their investment in social media will be increasing in 2021. We mentioned TikTok and Snapchat. 7% say that they're using TikTok, 13% say Snapchat. One, I'm curious, are they advertising, do you think, or are they simply connecting?

Chad (21m 10s):

Are they creating stupid videos on these sites? So that's sort of one of my questions, but one of things that really struck me as, as notable was LinkedIn usage for recruiters of your survey decreased 20% from 2017. I think it's went from 97%, use it in 2017 and that's down to 77%.

Joel (21m 34s):

So I'm really curious your thoughts on why LinkedIn is seeing a 20% decline and then maybe secondarily, how are people using TikTok and Snap currently to recruit?

Kelly (21m 45s):

No, I think we all have a bucket of time, right? And a bucket of energy. And I would say that, you know, if you're gonna start.

Joel (21m 54s):

And a bucket of money.

Kelly (21m 55s):

A bucket of money, some buckets are bigger than others. And I would say that, you know, A. you know, LinkedIn is kind of tried and true for a lot of recruiters. You can see like, you know, percentage wise, it's still pretty high. But I would say that as recruiters start to think about how to reach candidates, that maybe are not as represented on LinkedIn or, you know, they, they may want to try to broaden their candidate pool, of course some of the time and money that's going to be moving away from LinkedIn, you know, that that's going to move towards those others is going to move away from LinkedIn. Right. I also know that, you know, there are certain people who don't do the LinkedIn thing, but could be an amazing candidate and amazing employee.

Kelly (22m 41s):

And so I think you do as a recruiter, you have to be smart about diversifying that. And I would also say that other methods of being able to display your content, it's really interesting, you know, if you think about these growing social media platforms, and like I mentioned before, the way we consume content it's, you know, in visual short snippets, et cetera. And I would argue that like, that is one of the best ways to get candidates to lean in is to really think about, you know, how does your marketing team market your services and are they pushing out like really consumable content?

Kelly (23m 22s):

You know, that's approachable. And that kind of gives them a peek inside virtually into what your culture looks like. Some of the other platforms are much more compelling to do that. Like if you think about, you know, Instagram and you think about TikTok, I mean, I don't have an account, but I do know what it is. I think like I'm not that uncool, but, you know, I think like we become with those types of platforms because the content is really compelling. Right? And so why would you not want to push out compelling content about your employment brand and be where a lot of people are.

Joel (23m 56s):

So do you think that basically time, money, energy, et cetera, is moving a little bit away from LinkedIn into other social platforms? Is that sorta what you're summarizing?

Kelly (24m 5s):

No, that's my thought, you know, I think for some of this data, you you'd have to dig in a little bit more with focus groups and that type of thing to really get to a really deep level of understanding. But, you know, I think it's really smart for recruiting teams to be utilizing other platforms as well as LinkedIn.

Joel (24m 27s):

Yeah. So talking about other platforms and you guys spoke briefly about, I don't want to say the death of job boards, but how theirs their usage has gone down. However, according to your survey and this really popped out to me as well, is that job board investment is going to increase to 34% this year up from 29% in 2017. I would have guessed the opposite. Yeah. What do you what sort of your take on that? What exactly is a job board? Is this only specific kinds like LinkedIn and Indeed, or is this sort of a broad investment across a lot of job boards that would certainly surprise me, but I'm curious your take on the job board increase.

Kelly (25m 11s):

I like you, I don't completely understand that response. What I can glean from it, logically is that there are candidates, you know, if you think about like your D&I hiring, you know, one of the ways that you can try to broaden your outreach is to find job boards that maybe traditional candidates wouldn't, you know, necessarily be on. You know, it can be maybe like a targeted strategy for trying to increase the diversity of your workforce. That's like there, where my logic kind of ends because I do feel like, like the modern,

Joel (25m 52s):

I'm glad to know you're as confused by that as I am.

Kelly (25m 56s):

Like the modern recruiting function should really be embracing the mindset of a marketer, you know, and really building their candidate database that way. But when you think about D&I efforts, that's where I would say, you know, it is smarter to try to broaden your outreach proactively in some of those job boards that may not be as commonplace.

Chad (26m 20s):

Yeah. Just trying to find the job boards who are really diversity types of, they don't just have it in their name. They actually have diverse candidates. That's the hardest thing.

Kelly (26m 31s):

Oh yeah, it's true.

Chad (26m 33s):

It's all about outcomes.

Kelly (26m 34s):

And we're not as sophisticated as that at this as we should be. Right. Like, I mean, I think we're way behind. And I do think that there's a lot of education that is happening right now. That's going to be happening in the next couple of years and a lot of opportunities, I think for recruiting teams to become better at this. But I think we are, I would say most companies are much further behind in terms of knowing how to do this and how to reach diverse candidates then they should be.

Chad (27m 4s):

Yeah, 1969 we put a man on the moon, but we still don't know how to do this. That tells us where our priorities are. It says 33% of recruiters though. I think on a good note. And I might just be, you know, Pollyannish about this, but if 33% of recruiters report that job seekers are inquiring about D&I initiatives more than they did the previous year. So from my standpoint, this is a lot about what you talked about before. It's about that brand element. It's about what does the organization stand for? And 33% is a pretty, pretty big number, especially over the year over year. So talk a little bit about that.

Kelly (27m 45s):

Yeah. I mean, I think that if you know, if you think about the way that candidates are looking at their future employer, it is so much different than it was 20 years ago. Really, really smart companies and really, really smart recruiting teams understand the implications around how not only, you know, they operate as a business, but how they interact with their communities and how they, you know, give back to their communities, how they, how they hire people. It's like, if you think about someone having their own personal values and, you know, thinking about what's important to them, it used to be that it was like, I would go find a job somewhere and it didn't need that company's value, like values didn't need to align with my own personal values.

Kelly (28m 43s):

And those days are completely gone, you know, candidates are looking at okay, how have you treated your employees during this pandemic? How are you trying to make an effort to increase the diversity of your workforce? How are you interacting with and giving back to your communities? What types of benefits are you providing? You know, from a mental health support standpoint, from a being able to provide family planning services, to giving your employees days off to vote. All of those things, I think have shown that we have this major shift going on and it's been happening for a number of years, but it's really, really prevalent now that I think like candidates really care about what their employers stand for and how they're really exhibiting their values and how they're actually showing the world that they care about, you know, making the world a better place.

Kelly (29m 42s):

And so I think you can't ignore those types of things because it, every candidate, you know, it's very important to nowadays.

Joel (29m 53s):

So we talk about caring, Kelly, but I want to end on this. There are a lot of people that don't give a shit. Your survey talks about ghosting for those who don't know, this is when you get ignored by a candidate. Now forget the fact that employers have been ghosting candidates for decades. We won't get into that. But according to your survey, 56% of recruiters have been ghosted. And the larger companies have a bigger problem with this. What is your take on that? And when I read this, I thought about Aman Brar's, your CEO's comment, when he was running Canvas, that text messaging was quote "anti ghosting magic."

Joel (30m 39s):

So I want you to talk a bit about the problem and what your take is and why bigger companies are suffering. And then maybe solutions wise, if a recruiter is listening to this podcast, what can they do to beat back ghosting?

Kelly (30m 54s):

Yeah, ghosting. I have to say like when that first happened to me many years ago, I was like, what in the world? Like, I don't understand this at all, but, you know, I think when you take a step back, you have to think about, you know, the choice about where you're going to work is a huge choice. It involves logic and involves emotion, and your families are often involved, you know, so you're not just negotiating with a candidate, but you're also negotiating with their significant other. And at any given time, a candidate can be pulled into another direction emotionally after they've accepted a position.

Kelly (31m 35s):

Right. And so I think that, you know, the whole magic around texting and that type of thing is really around, like, how do you utilize technology interwoven with like your relationship with the candidate to make sure that that candidate feels cared for all the way up until the time that they're starting their job. So, you know, are you, once the candidate has accepted, a lot of companies will say, okay, we got them locked down. You know, like, we'll see them in two weeks, but really smart teams will say, okay, during those two weeks, that's like a time when there's going to be a lot going on with that candidate emotionally. So they're going to feel pulled in a lot of different directions. They notify their current employer.

Kelly (32m 17s):

Sometimes the fight is on with the current employer, trying to convince them to change their mind. And so to the extent that you can start to help that candidate feel engaged during that time between offer and start, you have to do that. You have to send text messages to them, let them know how much you're looking forward to them starting. You know, have other team members do that. You know, utilize as many tools as you possibly can, between that offer acceptance to that start to be able to get that candidate to continue to lean in.

Joel (32m 52s):

Are big companies failing at that more, or because my impression is that, you know, Oh, I got an offer from a big company, like a well-known brand. I can brag to my friends and my family that I'm interviewing. I would think that big companies would have less ghosting. What is, what's your take on that?

Kelly (33m 10s):

You know, the other thing that I can think of there is that it could be that the candidate, you know, may A feel like, well, it's a big company, they have a lot of resources. Like, it's not that big of a deal if I change my mind. It could also be that, you know, in a bigger company, you're a little bit further removed, you know, from your immediate team. And it could be that they're just not engaging and leaning in as much. Like, I think like that those are the only things that I can really think of.

Joel (33m 42s):

Or maybe they don't want to go through the 18 interview process, 68 hours to maybe not get the job.

Kelly (33m 49s):

It could be too. Yeah. It's maybe a little bit less white glove. And so I think big companies would be smart to figure out how to make it feel more white glove in terms of their candidate experience versus like that, you know, big company, I have to fill out all of these forms and I have to cross over, I have to do all of this work just to get in the door for the first day. So I think all of those things could be something that are part of that.

Joel (34m 15s):

Love it. Yes. So that's Kelly Lavin everyone as VP of talent over at Jobvite. Kelly, if people want to connect with you, they want to find out more about the report. Where would you send them.

Kelly (34m 30s):

I would send them over to and to kind of check out our site. I'm on there. My socials are linked on the leadership page, and then you can also get to the report, right from

Chad (34m 46s):

Soon you'll have Tik TOK link on there. You can watch Kelly doing her Tik Tok.

Joel (34m 57s):

Does Jobvite have a TikTok is the question?

Kelly (34m 58s):

I need to check into this.

Joel (34m 60s):

We're calling Jeff Rohrs right now.

Kelly (35m 3s):


Chad (35m 4s):

Can you see, can you see Jeff having a TikTok? Come on. Okay.

Joel (35m 8s):

Okay. I want to see Jeff doing the robot on TikTok immediately. Love it, Chad, another one in the books. We out. We love it. We out.

Rory Outro (35m 17s):

I'm Rory from Scotland, the country, which brought you electricity! Thank you for listening to podcasts with Chad and Cheese. Brilliant! They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Nada Niente. Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We out.


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