Recruiting Trends

Jobvite's yearly recruiter survey is always a highlight, and this year is no different. From Social media to video recruiting to job board investment to all things pandemic, this year's is no different. The boys dig into the survey with Jobvite SVP of Talent Kelly Lavin. The future is crazy, you guys!

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INTRO (2s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (24s):

Oh yeah. It's the all Indie interview today, kids. Welcome, once again, you are listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel Cheeseman joined as always by Chad Sowash Esquire.

Chad (37s):


Joel (38s):

Chad, how are you today? We are honored to have Kelly Lavin SVP of Talent, at sponsor, Jobvite, Kelly from Indianapolis, I'm assuming how are you?

Kelly (51s):

That is correct. And I am great. I'm very excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Joel (57s):

Awesome. Excellent. Well, well we have a lot to cover, so give us kind of a bio tweet on you and tell us a little bit about the survey that we're going to be talking about today.

Kelly (1m 7s):

Sure. So a little bit about me. I am, as you said, SVP of Talent at Jobvite. I have been in the talent space for over 20 years. I have just previous to Jobvite, I was on the founding team of Canvas.

Chad (1m 25s):

That's people.

Kelly (1m 27s):

Yes. I love the applause. Thank you.

Joel (1m 30s):

A Chad and Cheese favorite.

Kelly (1m 33s):

And I actually took a career diversion during that adventure and I ran Customer Success so it was a short two year journey, and then we were acquired by Jobvite and we have been kind of running fast ever since. And then previous to that, I've just been another technology companies, media, manufacturing, all over the HR space.

Joel (1m 57s):

You've been following Aman Brar around your whole career. Let's be honest.

Kelly (2m 0s):

Yeah. I mean, it kind of feels like it. I don't, I kind of don't remember a time when I wasn't working with him.

Joel (2m 6s):

Nice, nice. Well, tell us about this survey that you guys recently did here, that I think you do every year actually.

Kelly (2m 10s):

Yep. It is something that Jobvite does every year. We surveyed a little over 800 US-based HR professionals and recruiters. And this year survey, we also added, you know, several questions just based on the changing times and all of the disruption that COVID has presented and definitely had some interesting results that I'm super excited to chat through with you all.

Chad (2m 38s):

We've seen some big flips and I mean, we always want to talk about trends. Everybody wants to know what's happening in a year like 2020, nobody knows what the hell is happening. So I think the trend section for me, the difference between 2017 to today, when you have a non COVID, obviously doing whatever we've done over the versus lock down 2020, what were some of the biggest down turns and then upturns?

Kelly (3m 6s):

Yeah, so kind of biggest, biggest downturns. We saw a decrease in growing the talent pipeline, which was very fascinating when we went from 52% to 22%, which was a huge dive down. And so that was it. That was one that was really interesting to me. The other one that was a downward trend that I thought was really fascinating, was improving time to hire. And I definitely have some, some thoughts around that one because my own team and I have been discussing that, but I think that that's going to be an interesting one to dig into, for sure.

Chad (3m 43s):

Let's dig into it. Let's dig into that real quick. We're here. Let's do it. So your perspective, I mean, you actually do this and the time to hire, obviously isn't as important at least this year, is that because we're not doing as much hiring? Is it just that simple?

Kelly (4m 0s):

You know, I think it might be a little bit more complicated than that. You know, for my own team, you know, and this kind of couples with one of the biggest upward trends and that's in diversity hiring. I think with, you know, 2020, we've had a lot of events happen that have opened our eyes and I think really helped to evolve the way that we're thinking about hiring and I think that if you, if you look at time to hire, which I've traditionally had is one of my main metrics. It is in kind of direct opposition to really trying to improve the diversity of your team. And so you kind of have to manage both for sure, but I do think that if you're going to try to reach different types of people and really broaden your outreach, that time to hire, isn't going to be the metric that's going to drive that.

Kelly (4m 52s):

What do you guys think?

Chad (4m 54s):

Love, hearing that from you? Because when we actually spoke with Douglas Adkin, who used to work with Airbnb, they said they took many months to hire their very first engineer. Who's not one of the founders and they took much longer than they should have because they had defined the right person. And what this sounds like is the same kind of line of thinking is that we have to find the right person, the right people to be able to dig into a culture that we want to create for our current employees and our future employees. Is that, is that what you're feeling?

Kelly (5m 30s):

Definitely. And I think like if you're going to try to drive behavior change, you have to look at how those metrics are going to impact the behavior, right? So if you're telling your recruiters, Hey, you got to fill this position. This is your number one metric. We got to do it fast. It's not going to help you really talk to more candidates and really get the right people in the door.

Joel (5m 53s):

So, so Kelly, there's a little bit of a, I guess, contradictory findings on the report. So we're talking about culture being one of the main reasons why time to hire, hasn't been as important. However, if I'm reading this right, in terms of cultural add as being a priority for recruiters, according to your survey, you had 83% of recruiters in 2017 said that cultural add was important, but only 27% in 2020 said that a cultural ad was important.

Chad (6m 29s):


Joel (6m 29s):

So is it culture or is it quality and the skill sets of the folks that, that were, that were interviewing and hiring? Cause to me, it sounds like if you go from 83% to 27%, I mean, I don't want to say employment brand is dead, but good. God, that's a big, that's a big decline. What do you read into tha?

Kelly (6m 49s):

Yeah. You know, so I think it really depends upon your definition of culture. Right? And I think like, I feel like there might be a little bit of a crisis of like culture going on in terms of, are we hiring people to fit into a mold or are we hiring people to be additive to a culture? And so it kind of depends upon your definition of culture. I absolutely agree with you that statistic stood out to me most definitely. And I think like the fear that I have is that people think that, you know, if you're hiring for culture fit, it doesn't need to be as important in this remote world.

Kelly (7m 31s):

And I would disagree if you're thinking about culture being kind of like a collection of values and the things that you, that you do to drive the business forward. So I think that it really depends upon how you look at culture versus how you look at quality of hire. And so I think for some organizations, culture fit has traditionally meant like hiring people that fit into a mold. And I think that's the thing that we're trying to move away from.

Joel (8m 0s):

And how much does a work from home reality come into play with culture fit? Is it less important when everyone is working from home? Is that maybe why there was such a decline in the importance of cultural add?

Kelly (8m 14s):

I fear that that's where it's going, but I think, yeah, I think it's harder remote. Like when we're remote, it's harder to figure out kind of how to instill those cultural values within the workforce and within your organization. But I still think it's important. It's just, we don't have it all figured out yet because this is such a different world that we're living in than we were a year ago.

Joel (8m 39s):