Re-skilling and up-skilling was a common theme throughout 2022, and it shows no signs of slowing down as we head into 2023. Turns out, offering candidates and employees the opportunity to grow professionally is great for recruiting and retention. That's why we invited Natalie McCullough president and chief commercial officer at Guild on the podcast. A graduate of Stanford and Harvard Business School, as well being a Microsoft alum means she's a great person to talk to on the subject matter. Plus: Unicorn alert! Guild has raised over $643 million and has a $3.75 billion valuation. Companies like Walmart and Target rely on them to offer valuable continuing education solutions to their workforce. It's a must listen for anyone hiring essential workers.
TRANSCRIPTION SPONSORED BY: Disability Solutions partners with our clients to build best-in-class inclusion programs and reach qualified, talented individuals with disabilities of every skill, education, and experience level.
Chad: Hide your kids, lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts, complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.
Joel: Oh, yeah! What's up, kids? It's your favorite guilty pleasure, AKA The Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Cheeseman. Joined as always, the Watson to my Holmes, Chad.
Chad: Hello!
Joel: And today we are giddy, giddy to welcome Natalie McCullough, President and Chief Commercial Officer at Guild. Natalie, welcome to the show.
Natalie McCullough: Hi, guys. It's great to be here.
Chad: Great to have you. Dude, I am excited. We talked to Natalie in Vegas late last year at HR Tech.
Joel: Were we sober?
Chad: Yeah, I think that was the only time we were sober, to be quite frank, yeah.
Joel: Was Natalie sober, is the better question?
Natalie McCullough: I definitely was, we can be clear about that.
[laughter]
Chad: There are not a ton of companies that are out there that are actually solving huge problems. I mean, huge problems, and Guild is doing that. Natalie, Chief, what was that Joel, President?
Joel: Commercial Officer.
Chad: Well, tell us a little bit about you Natalie, give us a Twitter bio about you, not about Guild. We'll talk about Guild and all that other stuff, but who's the person?
Natalie McCullough: Sure. Okay, great. Well, let's see. I live in the Bay Area, I have for a long time. I live in Marin County, just north of the city. I am what a former president referred to as a Marin hot-tubber, proudly so I guess. I have two teenage kids, and one of them is a freshman in the college, so that's pretty interesting for me, given what I do professionally with Guild. And just a long time... Oh, I wasn't supposed to talk about my career. Well, a long time operator, I'll say that. As a mother of two and a busy business person, I don't have that many hobbies left anymore. I'm gonna have to find them once my kids all go to school. But that's me in a nutshell.
Chad: It's amazing when they're out of house, let me tell you. The empty nesting, when that happens, the hobbies that you can find, amazing.
Joel: I don't wanna hear about this emptiness.
Chad: Joel has a 5-year-old.
Joel: Can we go back to this? Hot tub? What was that?
Natalie McCullough: Don't you remember? I think it was one of the George Bushes was describing the Marin hot-tubbers. It was like a kin to the soccer moms. It was like they're Marin hot-tubbers, as a way to describe liberal people.
Joel: Is this Bush one or two?
Natalie McCullough: I don't remember.
Chad: Doesn't matter.
Joel: Okay.
Natalie McCullough: One of them said it.
[laughter]
Joel: That's a new one for me. I'm sure it's a new one for our audience.
Natalie McCullough: I might have dated myself with that reference, but I remember it. A lot of people remember it actually.
Joel: That's right. We can talk about Mr. Microphone, if it'll make you feel younger. Well, thanks for being here. Let's get right into it, shall we? For our listeners that don't know, what does Guild do and how is the current state of the company?
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, happy to talk about that. So Guild works with large employers to provide education, skilling and career mobility to their workforces. And the company was founded about eight years ago with this really single-minded vision and mission to create opportunity for America's workforce, particularly for the, call it 100 million or so Americans who don't have the skills or the education for the future of work, if you will. And we have built what we think of as a career opportunity platform that allows employers to fund critical education and skilling for their employees, and then also to connect that to mobility, to the jobs that are available to them as they invest in that education and skilling.
Joel: And what's your current valuation?
[chuckle]
Chad: A lot.
Natalie McCullough: Yeah. It's not actually a number that we focus on that much. We focus much more on the number of eligible employees that we have to serve, which is north of 5 million right now, and our position, really partnering with what we think are super innovative employers. So in the retail space, think of Walmart and Target and Macy's as critical partners, and in financial services, it's JP Morgan Chase and PNC and Discover and many others, and just great employers who have all embraced this vision of how do I create a culture of opportunity inside my company so that employees believe and see that I'm investing in them, not just what I give them today, but the path that I'm setting up for them in the future?
Joel: I love talking to presidents. Okay, I'll answer the question. According to Crunchbase, your valuation is $3.75 billion.
Chad: Ba, ba, ba, ba billion.
Joel: Which gives me a chance to play my favorite soundbite.
[music]
Chad: It's been a minute since you've had a chance to actually do.
Joel: It has, it has. Times are tough. Times are tough these days.
Chad: So it's interesting, not many people would see a company like Walmart and see them in the super innovative silo. So what makes Walmart super innovative with regard to what you're actually doing with them?
Natalie McCullough: If I'm not mistaken, Walmart is the world's largest employer, or at least the US's largest employer, private employer, I should say, and I think that they have a pretty amazing track record actually of being innovative in the realm of their relationship with their workforce. So they were very early on with Guild and in this movement to really upend the traditional approach to education. So the vast majority of employers in this country offer something called tuition reimbursement to their employees. It's about 70% of of larger employers, not SMBs. But anything sizeable, typically will have a tuition reimbursement program. But that's a benefit, if you will, that is mostly taken advantage of by white collar workers.
Chad: People who can afford it.
Natalie McCullough: People who can afford it, 'cause you gotta put money up front and hope and expect that you'll be reimbursed for it, and it oftentimes comes with really pretty bad policy around clawbacks, like, "Hey, if you leave us after a year, well, you owe us the money for that." Some organizations have even GPA requirements in order to get reimbursed. So there's a lot of risk associated with that, and in our opinion, a lot of inequity. So Walmart, and Disney was also a very early partner, really led the way with Guild in upending that paradigm and saying, "This is not the way that we should be creating this opportunity and this benefit. We need to do it in a much more equitable way, so that all employees can have access to it, particularly the ones that need it the most."
Natalie McCullough: But since you asked about Walmart, Walmart stated publicly a year or so ago that they were gonna invest $1 billion in their Live Better University, which is their program with Guild, and that's a very sizable investment, if you think about it, for any company to make in the education of their front line.
Chad: But when you are as big as Walmart is and you need, obviously, those individuals, we've seen that Amazon is actually burning through some of the workforce in some of the areas where they are doing business, but not for long. You see a company like Walmart, which has been around forever, for goodness sakes, actually focus on their people. Now, this is a turning, I guess you could say, of the socio-economic formula, where generally individuals who would work for Walmart, and I'm gonna generalize for a minute, would be the individuals who couldn't afford to actually pay upfront. So is this what many of these companies are realizing, that, "Hey, look, many of these entry level types of positions that I need to get them up through the ranks, they're not gonna be able to afford it, and if they can't afford it, we're never gonna get them where we need them to be." Are we starting to see that now?
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, I think that that's a piece of the equation. So it is understanding that there is really an untapped reservoir of talent, if you will, in the front line that needs some investment in order to help, honestly, to keep it in place. So one of the core reasons why folks bring Guild into their company is around talent recruitment and talent retention. So even if you can't deliver on the mobility promise, simply offering folks this access to education and scaling keeps them around longer, which addresses your point that you made earlier about how Amazon is kind of burning through the labor force available to them in their work sites. But the tip of the iceberg thing that I was saying is we have this fundamental belief, or maybe I'll start there, which is that talent is everywhere, but opportunity is not.
Natalie McCullough: So how do you start to address that challenge? One piece of it is taking away the financial burden. So no longer, in a program like what Guild offers, no longer does an employee have to front the money, which immediately makes it accessible to people of lesser means and lower incomes. The second big thing though is about, honestly, leveling the playing field around knowledge and understanding of, "Okay, great. My employer is paying for this, but what should I do? I don't know any data scientists in my day-to-day life, so when I see a data science certificate available to me, how do I know what that job is gonna be like? How do I know if I'm capable of doing that?"
Natalie McCullough: So that's a really other very big component of the solution that we brought forward, is that we, first of all, we curate the learning programs, so they have proven track records of working for the working adult learner, which is a non-trivial thing. We've evaluated over 7500 potential partners, and we have somewhere between 100 and 200 today, and 2100 specific programs that we have put through a vetting process to say, "We believe that you will deliver great outcomes for the working adult learner." And then the other big piece is that we package a whole set of career mobility, career support, career coaching services and product to help that person who may not have really any situational understanding of where they are today and how to get from that position to something different.
Natalie McCullough: So they need coaching, they need some assessment help around what's available, and they need, honestly, just some basic information and education about what these potential job pathways look like.
Joel: Chad, I had one of those Boston Dynamics robots greet me the last time I went to a Walmart, so I don't know what you're talking about they're not innovative, 'cause that was real impressive to me. Natalie, you are a woman-owned business. How has that been an asset and a liability for you?
Natalie McCullough: I can't imagine a way that it's been a liability. That's gonna take me a second to process.
Joel: We've heard some women-owned business say raising money is tougher.
Chad: Apparently, it's not for them. Have you seen the amount of money they've raised? [laughter]
Joel: But maybe that hasn't been an issue with you guys, but that's been one.
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, well, I think Rachel Romer, who is our CEO and Co-founder is really exceptional at setting forward the vision of what Guild is trying to do out in the world, and I think she's been really effective at getting access to capital as a function of that. So you'd have to ask her if being a woman made that harder, but certainly the results don't seem to bare that out for us. I do think that Guild specifically has an incredible advantage from a talent attraction perspective for a couple of reasons. One is a lot of women like the idea of coming to work at a company where there is very visible female leadership, and it's not just Rachel. Obviously, I'm a female leader. I have several peers on the leadership team in very important roles who are also women, more so than the average, certainly, tech company that's out there. But the other big advantage that we have is that we are so mission-driven.
Natalie McCullough: So Guild is a public benefit corp, a B Corp, if you will, which means that our governance by laws allow us to put our financial objectives, our shareholder objectives, if you will, and our social impact on equal footing, which is a lot of companies talk about that, but actually putting that into your governance model empowers that in a different way. And I think, particularly with the younger generations, they're very clear that they want to put their energies into something that's gonna make the world a better place, and that gives us a huge advantage in building great teams.
Joel: Recent headlines have been riddled with news of layoffs, particularly in our space as well, which Chad and I talk about on a weekly basis. Have you guys gone through many rounds of layoffs or are you planning on some, and if not, how have you been immune? What's your secret to being immune to the current state of the world?
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't think anybody is immune to the shifting macro-economic environment. It is undeniable that in times of uncertainty, people are slower to make decisions, so that impacts us just the way it impacts anybody else. That said, Guild is growing pretty rapidly, has been and is continuing to do so, and so our general headcount trajectory is upward. We are growing the company from a net headcount perspective. We definitely have taken the opportunity in the last year to make sure that we're investing appropriately in the right teams. Sometimes when folks grow really fast, and we did this too, like we over-invested in some areas and under-invested in others. We definitely took the opportunity in the last year very strategically and surgically to go through and make sure we were setting ourselves up for the long haul, but we haven't done what we heard from Google today or Microsoft, nothing across the board like that.
Joel: Every day I hope I can lay off Chad, but I'm never... [laughter] The economics never work out. I don't know.
Chad: You can't quit me.
Joel: I know. I know.
Chad: You work with very large organizations. How many companies are you currently working for? What does that actually represent from an employee base standpoint? And then also, you said proven track records. Tell me a little bit about the proven track record Guild has with some of those companies.
Natalie McCullough: Sure. Our best scaling metric, I think, is the number of eligible employees that have access to Guild, which is north of 5 million today. We don't share our logo count right now, but that's across many, I'll just say many employers. I know that's not satisfying, and I'm sure you'll ask me another question to try and get at it.
Chad: Come on. Come on.
Natalie McCullough: But I think on the proven track record side, there's so many stats actually that I could throw at you on that.
Chad: Throw 'em.
Natalie McCullough: Okay. Well, maybe given the economic climate that we're in, one of the stat areas that I'm really into is the ROI stat, which is HR teams do not invest, cannot really invest in things right now that don't have a clear ROI, and we have done this analysis so many times with our existing employer partners about the return that they're getting, and the numbers always shake out in this 2-3x scenario using extremely conservative assumptions. So you guys probably know and your listeners do too, I think that finance loves to push HR on their assumptions around investments, etcetera. So we take a really conservative approach because we want to arm our HR partners to go into that room and into that meeting and have something that's bullet-proof. But the reality is that that's an extremely conservative measure.
Natalie McCullough: I had one partner who I won't name, but we went through this process with them a couple of months ago, and they actually came back to us, and I think the answer that we came out with with them was like $2.60 or something like that for every dollar invested. And they came back and said, Well, interestingly, for another part of our business, we just quantified our replacement cost of replacing drivers, drivers is a big zone for them. And if we plug in the actual replacement cost for those drivers, your ROI is closer to $7.50. So that's the ROI I'm gonna take because that's just how hard it is for us as a business when our drivers quit to recruit and train and bring in new drivers. So I think that's a really powerful proven track record, which is when employers invest in Guild, they see massive returns from recruitment, retention and mobility.
Chad: Okay. So we see in community colleges, in colleges nationwide that graduation rates aren't incredibly high. What are you seeing from graduation rates, or at least completion rates from the students that are going through the Guild programs or the Walmart programs, or what have you?
Natalie McCullough: Yeah. So this one is a little bit complicated to unpack, but it comes in a couple of different forms. The first thing is that when I talked about how we curate our learning partners, we are picking a set of learning partners who have above average completion, graduation, persistence rates, and some of those metrics are pretty complicated. For an open access Bachelors for the average working adult learner, for example, you're talking about something that can take like six years if somebody's starting from zero credit. So these are complicated things to measure. But first of all, we sort of curate. First of, we don't allow folks into the marketplace who are not meeting or above the benchmark that exists for that category.
Natalie McCullough: And then there's something that we call The Guild Effect, which is basically the combination of the employer funding the career and support coaching that they get through the Guild coaches and the access to all of the support actually takes those rates somewhere between 15 and 20 points higher on average. And so I can't give you as precise number because the other thing to be clear about is there are 18 categories of learning in the Guild catalog. One category of learning might be High School Equivalency or English language learning. Another category might be an advanced Master's degree, an MBA or something like that. But certs, everything in between, and for each of them, we have a precise quality benchmark and then we require our providers to be higher and then we require ourselves to go even higher than that.
Joel: When you say catalog, are we talking like a Seers Catalog that you send to people? I'm kidding.
Chad: Yellow Pages, yes.
Joel: Curious about competitive landscape, Grow with Google, LinkedIn Learning, Coursera. When you're talking to prospects, I assume they ask that question, or what's the differentiator with all those other sort of services that are built around re-skilling and up-skilling?
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting time right now for HR leaders and L&D leaders because there is so much kind of convergence and also confusion around what is actually available out there. All those that you named, for example, I wouldn't consider competitors, per se. I think there are a lot of folks who are offering rich catalogs or sets of learning around short-form learning. I think there are a lot of folks who offer platforms to track compliance around learning. There's a whole set of folks who do tuition reimbursement, which is really kind of the category that Guild disrupted in the first place, but I don't wanna be teased about this. But we really think that we're doing something very different.
Natalie McCullough: We are building what we call a career opportunity platform, which is really bringing together the education, the skilling and the career mobility into one place with a member-focused user experience designed to meet the member where they are, which is a big thing. Almost every platform that you just named has very little applicability for the frontline worker. Like really just more or less designed for you and me, not for somebody who has limited education and who works as like a check-in clerk in a retail environment. We wanna meet the you or me, that's actually pretty easy to do, and we wanna meet the frontline worker where they are, and then we wanna guide them through and support them through the whole process.
Natalie McCullough: And then on the flip side, we want the employer to have deep, deep analytics, so that not only can they understand the return, like I was describing before, but they can also understand and enable mobility. So for example, at many, not all, but many of our employer partners actually have internal recruiting specialists who live and breathe off of a dashboard that we give them that shows them, "Here are the hundreds or thousands of people in your company who are near completion or have completed a program that you should be approaching for the jobs that you have to fill in your organization." So that really connecting the dots between, "Okay, you've invested in the L&D and the education. Now, how do you get those people into the next job?" Which actually has a whole other set of things that have to be addressed to make that happen.
Joel: Relationship with the government, I assume it's a partner, but also a potential threat in terms of reimbursement and paying for certain programs. Is that a benefit? But also if free community college became a thing, would that overnight become a threat to your business? How do you think about the government in the business?
Natalie McCullough: The government is an important stakeholder in anything that has to do with education, first and foremost, so we keep a close eye on those regulations, but we think of them, I guess, as an influence, something that we have to be aware of, but not necessarily a threat. I will say, personally, I don't think the odds of free community college everywhere are very good.
Joel: I think you're right.
Natalie McCullough: So I'm not that worried about that. But even if that did happen, as I said, community college or an associate's degree type thing is one of the 18 categories that we have of learning inside of Guild. So I don't really think that that would be massively disruptive to the core business and how people are thinking about it. But yeah, we pay attention and we care a lot about how policy holders, policy makers, I should say, are engaging in this space. We think it's a very positive trend that employers are funding advanced education and skilling, and we think the government could do more to support and encourage that. So for example, today, employers can invest $5250 a year in a given employee's education outside of the realms of skilling education required for their core job, and that does not have to be a tax benefit.
Natalie McCullough: So a lot of employers, by default, set that number as the amount that they are going to cap in many ways of what they will invest. Many of our partners go higher than that, some go lower, but most people take the cue from the government. And that number was set like 20 years ago or something like that. It's literally not even been an inflation adjusted to allow and encourage employers to make the kind of investments that we need, which as like a US citizen staring down what's facing us from a workforce crisis perspective, I think that's unconscionable, honestly, and that's an area that we think government could and should do more with.
Joel: Interesting.
Chad: Let's talk about the skills gap, 'cause everybody is, and it seems to be getting wider and wider and wider. So are you working with employers and educational institutions to be able to bridge those gaps? Because in many cases, the catalog isn't available to be able to get people where they need to go. And we're talking about, let's say for instance, some of these individuals who are working in technology or some of the very innovative spaces where you're not just learning about what I need to know today, but I also need to be in front of tomorrow. And many of those companies know where they're going, but they're not working with obviously educational institutions to be able to create catalogs around that type of learning. Are you guys trying to be that bridge between the two? Talk a little bit about that.
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, I think we're dead-focused on helping employers address that skills gap. Maybe I can bring that to life with an example. So Target is a partner. They've been live for maybe a year and three months, a year and a half, something like that, and they call their program Dream to Be, and it's a best-in-class program, all employees are eligible and the number of programs available is really broad for their employees. In addition, within that general approach, they created an emerging engineers program and we work with them to curate a specific learning provider that could help them take a frontline worker at a certain point in their education and become a programmer effectively. And so they just graduated their first class a few months ago of like 15 or 20, I think, of people who were working in warehouses or working in stores and now have jobs doing coding for them. And that's just one step.
Natalie McCullough: So a big thing that we do with employers is we build out these career pathways of like, Okay, how do you take somebody from a very frontline entry-level job? What is the path to a gate, we call it a gateway job, then what is the path from the gateway job to the next job, and then what is the path from the next job to the "destination job"? And I think we are investing a ton right now in making sure that we have a skilling catalog that can take folks all the way through that journey. I would say we are stronger in the first couple of steps of that journey just because of our heritage of serving so many millions of frontline employees and honestly, that being really mission-aligned of how you make a better life for those people. But we have everything in there to take somebody who maybe already has a bachelor's degree, is an analyst or something like that and wants to be a data scientist. I mentioned that earlier, which is one of the major skills gaps.
Chad: Is that pretty transparent though in the platform? I mean, as an employee, can I jump into it and I can see, here are the opportunities and the different pathways I can take to go to these different positions?
Natalie McCullough: Yes, actually. So that's embedded in the platform. We have what's called a Career Discovery page. These are sometimes customized actually at the employer level. We work with a ton of healthcare partners, and in healthcare, there's a workforce crisis, as I'm sure you know, around nursing and other clinical staff. And so you can go into the platform, you can see, "Okay, today I'm a patient transporter. What would it look like to become a phlebotomist? And then how could I become a nursing associate, a registered nurse, a nurse practitioner?" There's a whole chain there in the clinical world and we actually paint it out for them. We have a bunch of tools. We're gonna launch a tool in a couple of months. I'm not gonna steal anybody's thunder, but we're gonna launch another piece of that equation pretty soon that will make that piece of it even more powerful.
Chad: Okay. So you talked about a talent attraction before, which is incredibly important, and I think the best way we've ever seen this handled is with the military and ROTC, being able to actually go through those programs and whatnot. So how are companies actually maybe mimicking or doing the same types of things, or maybe even different to be able to draw in some very high potential types of individuals and put them on a path to leadership or what have you?
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, I think this is an area where employers who are investing in Guild and programs like it could and should lean in much, much harder. Some employers really do it well. So for example, Chipotle, they're one of our partners and their campaign was, "Don't go to college to get a job, get a job to go to college," and that was a massive campaign for them.
Chad: Yes.
Chad: I like that.
Natalie McCullough: And I would think about even the positive, less tangible benefits of that, think about the candidate pool that you attract with a campaign like that, I mean I think people who are hardworking, who are ambitious, who are like... That's a great talent pool that you're attracting with that. So it has all these ancillary benefits. And a hospital provider also shared recently at a quarterly business review, they started surveying new employees in the last year, how important the Guild program was in their decision to join 'cause the war for talent in nursing, et cetera is very, very competitive and the number was astounding. It was like 70% of all the people who had joined that company in the last year said that the education program was one of the top three reasons why they joined that company. And so that's an example of an employer who's doing a fantastic job of really trumpeting, "Hey, come here and we will invest in you." So I think that's the path forward, and I would agree with you that the GI programs were kind of like a trailblazer on that.
Joel: Do you guys have a lobbying team? You mentioned the amount of funding that goes into it, it hasn't increased in 20 years. Are you guys lobbying Congress and Representatives to get that number up and more support?
Natalie McCullough: I don't think we have an official lobbying team, or I wouldn't call it that exactly. We have a handful of people inside the company who pay a lot of attention to public policy and who spend time with policy makers to understand and influence. I guess that is effectively lobbying.
Joel: But no one in DC that's hitting the pavement on a regular basis?
Natalie McCullough: Yeah, we have people in DC who pay attention to what's happening for sure.
[laughter]
Joel: That sounds like an answer, non-answer to me.
Natalie McCullough: We would be remiss if we didn't, I guess. But we're not paying any lobbying firms or anything like that.
Joel: Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. What's the global footprint or opportunity for a company like Guild?
Natalie McCullough: I think the footprint is relatively unlimited. So today, almost as a function of just opportunity cost, we have a threshold of minimum employer size. It used to be 10,000 employees. If you had 10,000 employees or more, we would talk to you about a partnership, and we are lowering that to 5,000 now 'cause we can scale up. We've been able to figure out some of the scale pieces a little bit. But I think the opportunity truly is endless. Like I said, there are 100 million workers in the country who need this type of benefit and I think our vision is that this becomes a standard across the industry, that this is what employers do for their employees.
Joel: So when's the IPO?
[laughter]
Natalie McCullough: That is not something we're focused on, and I can't imagine that anybody answers that question for you.
Joel: Here we go again. Here we go.
Natalie McCullough: I don't know why you would keep asking that.
Joel: We don't think about that. We're focused on the customer, Joel. Natalie McCullough, everybody.
[applause]
Chad: Hey, I wanna go ahead and I wanna quote one of the investors of Guild, Oprah Winfrey, "You get a Guild, you get a Guild, you get a Guild." Natalie, thanks for coming on the show. If somebody wants to find out more about you, maybe connect with you and/or find out more about Guild, where would you send them?
Natalie McCullough: LinkedIn is a great place, I think, to find out more about us. We do a lot of promotion on LinkedIn.
Chad: Excellent.
Joel: Chad, it's been fun. It's Friday and it's happy hour. So another one is in the can.
Chad: Amen.
Joel: Thank you, Natalie. We out.
Chad: We out.
OUTRO: Wow, look at you, you made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast, or maybe you cheated and fast-forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back, valuable time you could have used to buy in a nutritious meal at Taco Bell, enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey, or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckle heads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt. Let's save some soap because you'll be back like an awful train wreck. You can't look away. And like Chad's favorite western, you can't quit them either. We out.